EL2022/23 - The Playoffs

[Killer Bob]

One second makes a lot of difference in basketball when it comes to movement and shot creation. Gudurić may or may have not faced the double team if he waited couple more seconds. Dorsey is completely irrelevant here because Gudurić made the shot. They weren't looking for three and they didn't need it. No one can also say for certain whether Dorsey was going to hit the shot if he got the ball. It's useless to talk about all the other possibilities that could have happened when no one knows for sure how they would pan out in the end.

Point in this conversation is that we for sure know what couldn't happened if Guduric didn't shoot that early.

[Killer Bob]

We have watched several tied games at which the team which had the last offense didn't manage to make a shot. We can't assume that the ball would have been easily passed to Dorsey for instance. Had it been passed to him to make a free shot, this would have been the ideal offense, even if Dorsey failed to score. We can't predict what would have happened if there was OT. So, if I had to choose between a secured shot under good circumstances and remaining time of 4 sec to the opponent team and a possible shot later under who knows which circumstances and no time left for the opponent, I would prefer the first option.

Dorsey was open expecting pass.

[Serbian_Layup]

Dorsey was open expecting pass.

Gudurić made himself completely open mid range shot. Even easier than Dorsey's. And he made it. All Dorsey argument becomes irrelevant. They didn't look for three. If Gudurić had been doubled, then Dorsey becomes relevant.

[tonia]

Dorsey was open expecting pass.

Well, Thomas unexpectedly lost the ball by Pierre, when another player of Olympiacos would probably expect a pass from him. You know, speculations can go on and on..

[maccabeo]

oly's shooters mark!

[Killer Bob]

Gudurić made himself completely open mid range shot. Even easier than Dorsey's. And he made it. All Dorsey argument becomes irrelevant. They didn't look for three. If Gudurić had been doubled, then Dorsey becomes relevant.

It's relevant because it's obvious they could have very good shot available later on the clock.

I don't believe that long 2 from a player, who was 0/5 before that, is a very good shot, especially with all that time still on the clock.

[Killer Bob]

Well, Thomas unexpectedly lost the ball by Pierre, when another player of Olympiacos would probably expect a pass from him. You know, speculations can go on and on..

Speculation can go on and on, but it's impossible that things could end worse for Fener.

[Serbian_Layup]

It's relevant because it's obvious they could have very good shot available later on the clock.

I don't believe that long 2 from a player, who was 0/5 before that, is a very good shot, especially with all that time still on the clock.

Are you aware of the fact that Gudurić made the shot. So what if he was 0/5 before that? Nobody cares. I already told you things change so fast in basketball, there is no guarantee that Dorsey would have been open, let alone hit that shot two seconds later. If Fener fans could choose now between the fact that Gudurić made that shot with 4 seconds left, and just the possibility to pass it to Dorsey later on the clock with uncertainty whether the shot would go in, I think I know what they would choose. At least I know what I would choose.

[Killer Bob]

Are you aware of the fact that Gudurić made the shot. So what if he was 0/5 before that? Nobody cares. I already told you things change so fast in basketball, there is no guarantee that Dorsey would have been open, let alone hit that shot two seconds later. If Fener fans could choose now between the fact that Gudurić made that shot with 4 seconds left, and just the possibility to pass it to Dorsey later on the clock with uncertainty whether the shot would go in, I think I know what they would choose. At least I know what I would choose.

We're talking about what should be done in situations like that. I'm saying you should shoot as late as possible, as good shot as possible and the best player available for that shot. Dorsey shooting after Guduric passes to him, is everything you can possibly demand for shot like that. After that what happens, happens. You win all have OT in home court.

if we're are talking what has happened, story is very simple, Oly has won, because Guduric gave them opportunity for having the last shot.

[Serbian_Layup]

We're talking about what should be done in situations like that. I'm saying you should shoot as late as possible, as good shot as possible and the best player available for that shot.

if we're are talking what's has happened, story is very simple, Oly has won, because Guduric gave them opportunity for having the last shot.

Sure, everyone would like that, in ideal scenario. Just tell me please how come we have so many bad possessions on last shots throughout the season? Probably because theory works in one way and practice in another because it's stuck with lot of unpredictable factors.

So did Jordan, Bryant give many opportunities to their opponents on the shot clock. That kind of rationalism is hard to swallow.

[Killer Bob]

Sure, everyone would like that, in ideal scenario. Just tell me please how come we have so many bad possessions on last shots throughout the season? Probably because theory works in one way and practice in another because it's stuck with lot of unpredictable factors.

So did Jordan, Bryant give many opportunities to their opponents on the shot clock. That kind of rationalism is hard to swallow.

Like I said it before, it's not exactly the same having tied game or being behind in last possession. When you have OT secured, your priority is making shot as late as possible. You don't want to leave anything on the clock.When you're behind, your priority is to take as good shot as possible, I know that some coaches in that case prefers to shoot few seconds before the end to have second chance via rebound.

[Serbian_Layup]

Like I said it before, it's not exactly the same having tied game or being behind in last possession. When you have OT secured, your priority is making shot as late as possible. You don't want to leave anything on the clock.When you're behind, your priority is to take as good shot as possible, I know that some coaches in that case prefers to shoot few seconds before the end to have second chance via rebound.

It's not the same, but it's also not written in stone that the last shot in a tied game should be in the last second, especially if you already have a good look with couple of seconds left.

[Killer Bob]

It's not the same, but it's also not written in stone that the last shot in a tied game should be in the last second, especially if you already have a good look with couple of seconds left.

No it isn't. But tell me, if you're Fener fan and you're watching that game live at this moment. What would you rather see, it's live you don't know outcome, ice cold Guduric taking that long 2 5.5 seconds before end or pass to hot Dorsey and he taking pretty open 3 few seconds later?

[Serbian_Layup]

No it isn't. But tell me, if you're Fener fan and are watching that game live at this moment. What would you rather see, it's live you don't know outcome, ice cold Guduric taking that long 2 5.5 seconds before end or pass to hot Dorsey and he taking pretty open 3 few seconds later?

This question would have been legitimate and relevant if Gudurić missed the shot. But he didn't. So choosing between ice cold Gudurić hitting the last shot which is a fact and red hot Dorsey hitting imaginary shot just for the time to run out is a no brainer for me.

[Killer Bob]

This question would have been legitimate and relevant if Gudurić missed the shot. But he didn't. So choosing between ice cold Gudurić hitting the last shot which is a fact and red hot Dorsey hitting imaginary shot just for the time to run out is a no brainer for me.

It's legitimate question because we're talking about, if you should milk the shot clock entirely. Guduric didn't and it wasn't exactly sure shot for him. And that early shot consistently costed Fener dearly.