European Competitions 2023/24 - Signings & Rumours

[paspalj]

I hoped PAO sign Nikos Rokgavopoulos but it didnt happen. In my Opinion Rokga is the future of the Greek bb

Signing with Baskonia is a very smart move. Promising young players have mostly been buried by playing for Oly or Pao.

[tonia]

Signing with Baskonia is a very smart move. Promising young players have mostly been buried by playing for Oly or Pao.

PAO gave a lot of playing time to Kalaitzakis bros, regardless of whether they are considered promising or not. In the past, yes, coaches didn't trust young players easily to play.

[paspalj]

PAO gave a lot of playing time to Kalaitzakis bros, regardless of whether they are considered promising or not. In the past, yes, coaches didn't trust young players easily to play.

Playing time is one factor (the most important one) but there are other variables to player development that I think greek clubs fall behind. There has been an abundance of players that flourished in Baskonia in recent years so that's why I believe it's a smart move.

[tonia]

I agree with you. Besides that, at this point, I think we need players on whom the team can rely, not just promising ones that can be signed for less money, with the expectation that they will turn out to be good (I'm talking in general, not referring to Rogkavopoulos, since I haven't watched him play).

[Toruko]

I agree with you. Besides that, at this point, I think we need players on whom the team can rely on, not just promising ones that can be signed for less money, with the expectation that they will turn out to be good (I'm talking in general, not referring to Rogkavopoulos, since I haven't watched him play).

Nikos is ready for the Euroleague and not just a promising player. He is a legit EL player at least on the offensive end. Taking aside prospects like Samodurov he is the only Greek guy with an offensive arsenal.

[paspalj]

Nikos is ready for the Euroleague and not just a promising player. He is a legit EL player at least on the offensive end. Taking aside prospects like Samodurov he is the only Greek guy with an offensive arsenal.

Staying away from the toxicity of the Oly-Pao rivalry is also pretty good for the soul.

[saras]

Panathinaikos has nothing to do with useless and talentless players not being able to become at least euroleague players.
charalampopoulos being the perfect example of being useless. he was given enough time and space to prove he is good and he proved he was just trash. but for paspalj its panathinaikos and maybe DPG fault these trash didnt play competetive basketball


panathinaikos has proved that its a perfect club to let you shine and play at a young age, if you have the skills to do it of course. fotsis was given playing time in the f4 back in 2000, being only 19 years old, lazaros papadopoylos the same in 2002 f4 being only 21, calathes the same being only 22 in 2011 etc.

[tonia]

Panathinaikos has nothing to do with useless and talentless players not being able to become at least euroleague players.
charalampopoulos being the perfect example of being useless. he was given enough time and space to prove he is good and he proved he was just trash. but for paspalj its panathinaikos and maybe DPG fault these trash didnt play competetive basketball


panathinaikos has proved that its a perfect club to let you shine and play at a young age, if you have the skills to do it of course. fotsis was given playing time in the f4 back in 2000, being only 19 years old, lazaros papadopoylos the same in 2002 f4 being only 21, calathes the same being only 22 in 2011 etc.

There are also players like Karagkoutis and Gkagkaloudis, who were really promising but didn't manage to shine.

[R1ou]

Watched Armani-Virtus for a bit and it had almost me vommiting. Very ugly basketball.

[Toruko]

Its really not deniable that especially PAO is a graveyard for prospects. Oly integrates young players better but the Kalaitzakis bros for example werent ready at all. Especially Giorgos Kalaitzakis needs to be told that he is not what he thinks he is.

Mantzoukas on the other hand is a good shooter but doesnt deliver much except floor spacing. Defense is average at best and his rebound contribution in ratio to his height is really bad. Needs time too and not just 1 year.

[paspalj]

How a young player will develop is a problem that doesn't have a clear answer. In any other case, everyone would know and sign players when they were 14 years old. Very roughly though, a good indicator though (again, indicator, not certainty) is how good you are compared to your peers. Obviously there are other factors that come into play here as some years are inherently weaker than others, and some are stronger. Some players are allowed to shine within a system, some others have individual talent but are buried playing for mediocre teams.

Now, when the time comes to make the jump to the mens team there are even more variables. The game now becomes much faster and more physical so the young player needs to to work on their body as well as their game to catch up. This is where determination and commitment comes into play. Of course there are other factors like mental toughness.

Lastly (although not least important) is playing time. Some players are able to translate practice to game faster than others. That's a talent.

Charalampopoulos was certainly not trash. He was 16-17 when he was called to play in the EL. The difference between 17 and 19 and 22 are massive in terms of athletic performance. Why didn't he become the player we thought he could be I don't think we'll ever know. He was battling injury very early, maybe he didn't have the mental toughness to overcome adversity, I don't know.

Calathes didn't exactly shine in 2011. He had like 4 points. Zeliko utilized him perfectly to dismantle Navarro though.

So we're left with Fotsis (who was undoubtedly a really good prospect, drafted to the NBA) and Papadopoulos who answered the call. You brought up 2 examples for the past 20 years. I wouldn't say that that's the perfect place for players to come and grow. And you know what? That's fine. Teams that want to win don't have the luxury to invest heavily in dubious talent. They can't afford to. I can't think of any of the "big teams" producing young talent on a consistent basis. I'm not talking about de facto prospects. Like, I don't count Luka.

but for paspalj its panathinaikos and maybe DPG fault these trash didnt play competetive basketball

That's not what I said but go off king.

[paspalj]

Mantzoukas on the other hand is a good shooter but doesnt deliver much except floor spacing. Defense is average at best and his rebound contribution in ratio to his height is really bad. Needs time too and not just 1 year.

He showed some grit this year so I hope that with some work he'll be able to be a decent stretch 4.

[saras]

How a young player will develop is a problem that doesn't have a clear answer. In any other case, everyone would know and sign players when they were 14 years old. Very roughly though, a good indicator though (again, indicator, not certainty) is how good you are compared to your peers. Obviously there are other factors that come into play here as some years are inherently weaker than others, and some are stronger. Some players are allowed to shine within a system, some others have individual talent but are buried playing for mediocre teams.

Now, when the time comes to make the jump to the mens team there are even more variables. The game now becomes much faster and more physical so the young player needs to to work on their body as well as their game to catch up. This is where determination and commitment comes into play. Of course there are other factors like mental toughness.

Lastly (although not least important) is playing time. Some players are able to translate practice to game faster than others. That's a talent.

Charalampopoulos was certainly not trash. He was 16-17 when he was called to play in the EL. The difference between 17 and 19 and 22 are massive in terms of athletic performance. Why didn't he become the player we thought he could be I don't think we'll ever know. He was battling injury very early, maybe he didn't have the mental toughness to overcome adversity, I don't know.

Calathes didn't exactly shine in 2011. He had like 4 points. Zeliko utilized him perfectly to dismantle Navarro though.

So we're left with Fotsis (who was undoubtedly a really good prospect, drafted to the NBA) and Papadopoulos who answered the call. You brought up 2 examples for the past 20 years. I wouldn't say that that's the perfect place for players to come and grow. And you know what? That's fine. Teams that want to win don't have the luxury to invest heavily in dubious talent. They can't afford to. I can't think of any of the "big teams" producing young talent on a consistent basis. I'm not talking about de facto prospects. Like, I don't count Luka.



That's not what I said but go off king.

i mentioned examples, but you didnt mention a single one of a player that was buried by the bad panathinaikos and shined after leaving the team. because the team doesnt keep them imprisoned until the end of their careers. i didnt even mention players before obradovic era, you know that panathinaikos was playing in the f4 from 1994 to 1996 with oikonomou and alvertis being important players in the team's rotation right? alvertis was even the leading scorer in our first euroleague at the age of 22. surprise huh?


someone mentioned karagoutis and gkagkaloudis. first came to panathinaikos at the age of 23, stayed for 1 year and after panathinaikos he played in some weak teams in the greek first division. gkagkaloudis came to panathinaikos at the age of 26 (just because we had decresed budget that year playing at a small arena due to renovation at OAKA cause of the olympics) and was kicked off the team because he was found drunk and smoking by obradovic during practice. same applies to foreigners, if you can compete then you will shine no matter what team you are playing for. pekovic came to panathinaikos, proved he was worth it and was sent to the nba getting a huge contract. on the other hand tepic was given multiple chances to prove he is good, but proved he was actuallly trash.

so can you mention at least one person that we ruined his career because he chose to play for panathinaikos? charalampopoylos is 26 now and he is still playing in some random low quality italian teams

[paspalj]

I think you are being purposefully misleading here. You know that it's very difficult to find an example of the case you're asking because once a player has been "wasted" then no one wants to touch them. You're asking for an example of a young player that came, bombed, and then had to go through the process of finding a smaller team, rebuild his career and then become relevant again. I believe you understand how difficult this is and it's why you asked this question in bad faith.

Your examples of Pekovic and Tepic are decent I admit. They both came as very promising talents though only one actually made it. I don't know what to tell you. Not every prospect ends up big. Your example falls slightly short though because the thing is that they came at 22. This is quite the difference. This discussion about "burying" players is about 16-17-18 year old kids. The idea is that by a combination of factors (some being on the team, others being on the player) at 22 this player will be ready to significantly contribute (for some definition of "significantly").

[ronmercer80]

i mentioned examples, but you didnt mention a single one of a player that was buried by the bad panathinaikos and shined after leaving the team. because the team doesnt keep them imprisoned until the end of their careers. i didnt even mention players before obradovic era, you know that panathinaikos was playing in the f4 from 1994 to 1996 with oikonomou and alvertis being important players in the team's rotation right? alvertis was even the leading scorer in our first euroleague at the age of 22. surprise huh?


someone mentioned karagoutis and gkagkaloudis. first came to panathinaikos at the age of 23, stayed for 1 year and after panathinaikos he played in some weak teams in the greek first division. gkagkaloudis came to panathinaikos at the age of 26 (just because we had decresed budget that year playing at a small arena due to renovation at OAKA cause of the olympics) and was kicked off the team because he was found drunk and smoking by obradovic during practice. same applies to foreigners, if you can compete then you will shine no matter what team you are playing for. pekovic came to panathinaikos, proved he was worth it and was sent to the nba getting a huge contract. on the other hand tepic was given multiple chances to prove he is good, but proved he was actuallly trash.

so can you mention at least one person that we ruined his career because he chose to play for panathinaikos? charalampopoylos is 26 now and he is still playing in some random low quality italian teams

Yes, neither Karagoutis nor Gagaloudis were great talents, they did their best. Charalampopoulos was given plenty of chances to develop his talent and he never exploited them..

Nevertheless it was a mistake to further increase the number of foreigners that can be registered in the local championship (7, only 6 can play).

Mantzoukas, it would have been better to leave him play for Prometheus. There was no reason to bring him in the team so early (17,5 years old). He is a skilled player but he isn't wembanyama or doncic.

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