European Competitions 2023/24 - Signings & Rumours

[MikeMaccabiFan]

We have to see everything in relation. You cant spent over 40 millions every season and deliver just 3 F4 entrances. Its like giving you an apple for 100 Euros and you think its worth because you had never seen an apple before. Saras has build vulnerable rosters again and again. Additionally, he didnt cut a fine figure in the do or die games. I cant count him successful so I cant count ZOC successful with FB even if I must say ZOC made a far better job in Turkey.

Yes, return on investment question is also important, but I didn't call Saras a success, just not complete failure.

Same as I don't call Kattash a success this year - we could do so much more with this roster, if not two-four games in regular season he lost with bad game management. Not a failure as well, we did show some great basketball, and same time had healthy and (mostly) happy locker room. We don't know yet (might not know until end of his career) why Brown threw away much higher proposals from Spain and agreed for long contract extension, but there must be something special in the team.

[Toruko]

How would you rebuild Barca's roster to meet their budget cuts and which coach would you hire?

Well, even with 40+ millions they came too short in certain positions. The team that I remember two years ago was heavily dependent on Higgins. They signed Calathes who turns out to be a big liability on the offensive end. Mirotic was also a disappointment in do or die games which is of course devastating if your go to guy fails in crucial games. You cant spend 40+ and have as your bench point guard Bolmaro or Jokubaitis. You need to buy a veteran who can change the momentum of the game.

Last season Saras showed that he hasnt learn anything and bought Sato with the same weaknesses as Calathes (of course a better version), a washed up Vesely who is obviously not very happy with Saras and Sanli who was bought because of his great games against Tavares. It was a mistake because this shape he will never reach again.

If you cant do it with 44 millions you wont do it with 30 either. Barca has been paying too much for its players. The market is very thin. I dont know what to do. I would aim a mix of young home grown guys and a team with good guards and one solid big. You need to buy some no names and hope for some lucky shots.

[tonia]

We have to see everything in relation. You cant spent over 40 millions every season and deliver just 3 F4 entrances. Its like giving you an apple for 100 Euros and you think its worth because you had never seen an apple before. Saras has build vulnerable rosters again and again. Additionally, he didnt cut a fine figure in the do or die games. I cant count him successful so I cant count ZOC successful with FB even if I must say ZOC made a far better job in Turkey.

Zeljiko was in Fener from 2013 to 2020.
In his second season to the team (2015), Fener reached F4 for the first time in their history (4th). In 2016 Fener lost in the EL final (2nd), while in 2017 Fener won the title (1st). In 2018 they were again 2nd and in 2019 4th. (In 2020 EL was cancelled due to covid). Fener hasn't reached F4 ever since, even though remains a team with a high budget (24 millions- steadily around 6th of the list of season budgets of EuroLeague teams).

[Toruko]

Zeljiko was in Fener from 2013 to 2020.
In his second season to the team (2015), Fener reached F4 for the first time in their history (4th). In 2016 Fener lost in the EL final (2nd), while in 2017 Fener won the title (1st). In 2018 they were again 2nd and in 2019 4th. (In 2020 EL was cancelled due to covid). Fener hasn't reached F4 ever since, even though remains a team with a high budget (24 millions- steadily around 6th of the list of season budgets of EuroLeague teams).

I know these approaches to count a final four entrances as a success because in one game everything can happen but you play basketball four cups. In order to count a team successful I need a ratio of winning cups of 50% after reaching the final four.

[tonia]

I know these approaches to count a final four entrances as a success because in one game everything can happen but you play basketball four cups. In order to count a team successful I need a ratio of winning cups of 50% after reaching the final four.

Fener had never reached F4 before Obradovic and when Obradovic came, Fener reached F4 5 times in a row and even won a title. You make it sound like reaching F4 is taken for granted. It is not and as a proof for it, Fener hasn't reached F4 after Obradovic.
You believe that Obradovic was not successful with Fener because he didn't win half of 5 titles, meaning 2 or 3 titles instead of 1?? In other words, if Fener had reached twice F4 with Obradovic and had won 1 title, this would have made Obradovic more successful because he would have 50% ratio of winning cups??
Let's take CSKA. From 2000 to 2021, they reached F4 18 times and they just won it 4 times. I believe that CSKA was quite successful, despite the 4/18 ratio.

[Toruko]

Fener had never reached F4 before Obradovic and when Obradovic came, Fener reached F4 5 times in a row and even won a title. You make it sound like reaching F4 is taken for granted. It is not and as a proof for it, Fener hasn't reached F4 after Obradovic.
You believe that Obradovic was not successful with Fener because he didn't win half of 5 titles, meaning 2 or 3 titles instead of 1?? In other words, if Fener had reached twice F4 with Obradovic and had won 1 title, this would have made Obradovic more successful because he would have 50% ratio of winning cups??
Let's take CSKA. From 2000 to 2021, they reached F4 18 times and they just won it 4 times. I believe that CSKA was quite successful, despite the 4/18 ratio.

It also depends on the price - performance ratio. With that being said Olympiacos is very successful reaching the FInal four with this team. You cant normally expect guys like Mckissic, Larentzakis to reach F4 but if you build a team that reaches F4 once then you can also expect doing it several times as long as you can keep the core. This is a success but the main goal remains winning titles.

[ronmercer80]

Yes, return on investment question is also important, but I didn't call Saras a success, just not complete failure.

Same as I don't call Kattash a success this year - we could do so much more with this roster, if not two-four games in regular season he lost with bad game management. Not a failure as well, we did show some great basketball, and same time had healthy and (mostly) happy locker room. We don't know yet (might not know until end of his career) why Brown threw away much higher proposals from Spain and agreed for long contract extension, but there must be something special in the team.

I think that he was successful at 99% with this budget and roster, he gave his soul, he studied the opponents excellently, he exploited even mediocre players.

On the other hand he is a yesman of the property, we know that he won't demand anything and it will be very difficult to improve further with him.

[iskoch]

do you think calathes to pao possible?

[ronmercer80]

Barcelona asks Mirotic to reduce significantly his salary? A 50% cut is rumoured. I don't think he would accept.

[zubitos]

Sloukas renew his contract with Oly for 3 more years.
He will finish his carrier in Oly.

[Toruko]

Sloukas renew his contract with Oly for 3 more years.
He will finish his carrier in Oly.

Sloukas with 36 in Oly. Very fine.

[Levenspiel]

Zeljiko was in Fener from 2013 to 2020.
In his second season to the team (2015), Fener reached F4 for the first time in their history (4th). In 2016 Fener lost in the EL final (2nd), while in 2017 Fener won the title (1st). In 2018 they were again 2nd and in 2019 4th. (In 2020 EL was cancelled due to covid). Fener hasn't reached F4 ever since, even though remains a team with a high budget (24 millions- steadily around 6th of the list of season budgets of EuroLeague teams).

Good response and I totally agree with you.

In addition to this, most people in Turkey know that winning a title for Fener (and the boiling cauldron that is) was a near-impossibility, regardless of budget. It took the best coach of the EL history several years to get it. Still an amazing job.

[tonia]

Good response and I totally agree with you.

In addition to this, most people in Turkey know that winning a title for Fener (and the boiling cauldron that is) was a near-impossibility, regardless of budget. It took the best coach of the EL history several years to get it. Still an amazing job.

Reading it again, it makes me wonder :
Panathinaikos hasn't reached F4 after Obradovic.
Fener hasn't reached F4 after Obradovic.
I hope it's not some kind of "curse", for the teams that he has coached many years...

[zubitos]

Sloukas with 36 in Oly. Very fine.

Sloukas and Papanikolaou are the connecting links between the 2012-2013 team and the current one. I know many of you can't understand it, but as Olympiacos fan I am very happy to see these athletes in the team's shirt. We have many joys and many memories from these players and we want them to end their careers in the team, and for the team to honor them as they deserve.

So yes....We are happy for Sloukas renewal because he is living legend for this team.
Besides, I don't think there are many better Greek players than these two, and the teams needs domestic players.

[paspalj]

Sloukas and Papanikolaou are the connecting links between the 2012-2013 team and the current one. I know many of you can't understand it, but as Olympiacos fan I am very happy to see these athletes in the team's shirt. We have many joys and many memories from these players and we want them to end their careers in the team, and for the team to honor them as they deserve.

It’s really nice to have the ability and create the general circumstances to have players that have offered a lot to a club, being able to retire with that club.

Fans tend to have a ride or die relationship with players that have put their best effort forward. For example (a kinda extreme in the negative side example) Pao fans wanted Lasme and Gist well into 2020 (because of how they have terrorized Oly back in 2013-14).