European Competitions 2023/24 - Signings & Rumours

[janketa]

Not even god himself could win the EL title with this Efes roster.

Come on, with Larkin and Thompson as core and 10 foreigners more(in fact 9 cos Zizic isn't usable on this level and it's Ataman's fault), plus at least 2 decent Turkish players, not only Itoudis but at least 5 EL coaches could make it

Efes roster is much better then results show

[Levenspiel]

I don't get it. Itoudis had lapses over the last a few games, but he's a better coach than Saras for the level they aim. I wonder if this is a typical reactionary move from Fener after the losses vs Beşiktaş and Efes in the domestic league. You would normally think who cares, but with agitator idiots like Komsuoglu over there, it's quite likely.

[Toruko]

I don't get it. Itoudis had lapses over the last a few games, but he's a better coach than Saras for the level they aim. I wonder if this is a typical reactionary move from Fener after the losses vs Beşiktaş and Efes in the domestic league. You would normally think who cares, but with agitator idiots like Komsuoglu over there, it's quite likely.

There was serious beef between the coach and the players. Ali Koc himself fired him or said that he has to go.

[janketa]

I don't get it. Itoudis had lapses over the last a few games, but he's a better coach than Saras for the level they aim. I wonder if this is a typical reactionary move from Fener after the losses vs Beşiktaş and Efes in the domestic league. You would normally think who cares, but with agitator idiots like Komsuoglu over there, it's quite likely.

It's not usual for you to use words like idiot, but in this case right on target

[Jazz]

I don't get it. Itoudis had lapses over the last a few games, but he's a better coach than Saras for the level they aim. I wonder if this is a typical reactionary move from Fener after the losses vs Beşiktaş and Efes in the domestic league. You would normally think who cares, but with agitator idiots like Komsuoglu over there, it's quite likely.

I have to admit I was a little shocked too. That said the two coaches Fener apparently considered (Saras and Trinchieri) have both had success with less talented rosters. Maybe they saw those coaches getting more from this group of players?
It was all downhill for Itoudis after he argued with his Turkish neighbours. It will be interesting to see where he coaches next.

[Straight forward]

So Saras is new coach
Won't change anything at least 2 seasons until rotten contracts expire

The only solution could be if he can bring Larkin next season. He is the only guy who can lead this bunch of clowns that Kokoskov and Itoudis signed

To certain extent it makes perfect sense. Saras loves to have true PG with defensive upside, versatile forward who can play and guard multiple positions, traditional and stretch bigs. It would only help that he worked with Calathes, Hayes, Sanli already, not sure how happy these guys will be seeing him again though. What Saras does really well is polishing the roles. Young players as Madar, Biberovic, Hazer can expect to understand something about themselves that they didn't before and Jasikevicius will put them in position to show their best current strengths and he won't hesitate to give them consistent role (be it small role) if they can do something right. Itoudis was an idiot not giving consistent role to Biberovic for example. Yes, Jasikevicius will exceed with methodical BB a little too much, but he will also polish and define the roles nearly to perfection, will be consistent with it, and will established very understandable and reasonable status quo and players will know what they have to do to see consistent minutes which can only make less tension. In other words, he will create his system and players will believe in that cause it's consistent. The only problem that Jasikevicius is dumb ass boomer in terms of communication - particularly he has that old school belief that if you scream at players all the time it will make them work 110%. It's partially true, but it also kills swagger and builds imannent or unconsciousness antagonism which long term is harmful. He got that stupid idea from Obradovic, the guy who is completely dead now as a coach. He stuck in 00s.

[janketa]

Itoudis was an idiot not giving consistent role to Biberovic for example.

Yes, that's one of his biggest mistakes(beside bad transfers). He was stuborn idiot believing that Pierre-Heyes Davis 40 mins playing time is key for success. You noticed that great.

Paradox is that with giving bigger role to Biberovic he could save his ass with his almost perfest played 3&D role this season. Guy has 65% for 3pt, but more then limited playing time

[Serbian_Layup]

To certain extent it makes perfect sense. Saras loves to have true PG with defensive upside, versatile forward who can play and guard multiple positions, traditional and stretch bigs. It would only help that he worked with Calathes, Hayes, Sanli already, not sure how happy these guys will be seeing him again though. What Saras does really well is polishing the roles. Young players as Madar, Biberovic, Hazer can expect to understand something about themselves that they didn't before and Jasikevicius will put them in position to show their best current strengths and he won't hesitate to give them consistent role (be it small role) if they can do something right. Itoudis was an idiot not giving consistent role to Biberovic for example. Yes, Jasikevicius will exceed with methodical BB a little too much, but he will also polish and define the roles nearly to perfection, will be consistent with it, and will established very understandable and reasonable status quo and players will know what they have to do to see consistent minutes which can only make less tension. In other words, he will create his system and players will believe in that cause it's consistent. The only problem that Jasikevicius is dumb ass boomer in terms of communication - particularly he has that old school belief that if you scream at players all the time it will make them work 110%. It's partially true, but it also kills swagger and builds imannent or unconsciousness antagonism which long term is harmful. He got that stupid idea from Obradovic, the guy who is completely dead now as a coach. He stuck in 00s.

Sorry, but this is just not true. Have you watched Partizan at all these past 2 seasons? I mean, you know they are like the best offense in the league? Just look at his game management. Through just one game he goes with traditional lineup, then goes small with Leday at C, then really big with Smailagic at SF. The king of game management and adjustments. If there is a coach in this league who keeps up with modern trends, that is Obradovic. Look at his roster constructions at Partizan (especially with Lessort and Exum last season), shooters everywhere, very agile centers (not counting Kaminsky though) who can defend on the perimeter (Caboclo, unlike Lessort, can even shoot the ball), strong defensive forwards with good shooting stroke, excellent slashers at 1 (Exum, Dozier, Avramovic)...I mean, it's totally opposite of what you wrote. Partizan is probably the only team in Euroleague whose entire team can shoot the ball.

He screams because players trust him and recognize his authority. He is not screaming to belittle them, but to help them. It's as simple as that. Some coaches think they are good if they scream a lot, but that doesn't work if you are not Obradovic or don't have experience, knowledge and dedication as he does. His screams proved to be beneficial for his teams and players his entire career because it's backed up with knowledge and well being to entire team.

By the way, have you been watching Exum lately in Dallas? That's probably because Obradovic screamed a lot at him. LOL
Then, Smailagic, Avramovic...Nunnally's and Leday's consistency, Punter playing best basketball of his career under Obradovic, Lessort who was a Eurocup level player before he came to Partizan.

If Jasikevicius is trying to be "the new Obradovic", then he is doing something wrong, because Obradovic's 9 titles came from having good relationships with his players. He screams a lot at them, but he trusts them and they know it.

[paspalj]

“Obradovic is dead as a coach” was not on my bingo card for 2023 but it squeezed through last minute. The man will forever be a mastermind.

As Layup said there are differences between screaming. We have no idea what happens behind closed doors and the praise that they might get. If everyone believes in your expertise and authority and trusts that you’ll lead them where they’re supposed to be, then some screaming won’t hurt. If you scream “just because” or with every little mistake, then no one will listen to you.

[Straight forward]

OK, I admit that I exceeded a little bit with comment of Obradovic. I just got the impression that he's really on the decline...Horrible last season with Fener, then failure in Eurocuo with Partizan, first EL season with Partizan was controversial and ended up in a shitty way (not his fault entirely, but still) and this season I didn't follow him closely. From what you say, it sounds pretty nicely, but he's only yet to prove something results wise, the team hasn't been cheap last 2 seasons I believe. So it's rather bleak picture compared to his best days in PAO or even Fener. Liekabelis sweeping Partizan in Eurocup also played a part here and Obradovic looked like a coach who doesn't have much ideas and controls the outcome of the game little. We'll see, maybe he is learning and adjusting, catching up with trends. But when a guy screams a lot, and pissed almost all the time and there is no results...that's becoming 2 times more annoying. Again, I dislike Jasikevicius screaming as well, not just Obradovic. Pablo Laso, Messina, Scariolo any day to me than those guys, when it comes to communication if you ask me.

[Serbian_Layup]

OK, I admit that I exceeded a little bit with comment of Obradovic. I just got the impression that he's really on the decline...Horrible last season with Fener, then failure in Eurocuo with Partizan, first EL season with Partizan was controversial and ended up in a shitty way (not his fault entirely, but still) and this season I didn't follow him closely. From what you say, it sounds pretty nicely, but he's only yet to prove something results wise, the team hasn't been cheap last 2 seasons I believe. So it's rather bleak picture compared to his best days in PAO or even Fener. Liekabelis sweeping Partizan in Eurocup also played a part here and Obradovic looked like a coach who doesn't have much ideas and controls the outcome of the game little. We'll see, maybe he is learning and adjusting, catching up with trends. But when a guy screams a lot, and pissed almost all the time and there is no results...that's becoming 2 times more annoying. Again, I dislike Jasikevicius screaming as well, not just Obradovic. Pablo Laso, Messina, Scariolo any day to me than those guys, when it comes to communication if you ask me.

Man, Obradovic is not catching up with trends, he is the trend

Listen, real life is not a video game. You can't just plug and play. It takes time for things to become good or successful. Good coaches have bad seasons. It's easy to have a bad season. You go wrong with one or two signings and you are already in trouble. Having one or two bad seasons is indication of nothing. But when you have 30 good seasons, then it's something. What has Popovich done since Duncan, Parker, Manu retired? Absoulutely nothing, he is on the verge of setting some negative records. Does that make him a bad coach? Definitely not.

Partizan was in a really bad place when Obradovic came. In his first Euroleague season he made Partizan a legitimate contender playing great basketball, especially when the team clicked and everyone got comfortable with their roles. This season is not any different, especially if P.J. Dozier continues to imrprove because his role is going to be very important down the stretch.

[janketa]

Must be said that Fener had awful schedule with 5-8 home/away games. Without homecourt defeat and one away win.
I am a little bit sad about Itoudis cos I realy like him, but in the same time I am mad on him and his signings, Willbekin 1st of all

Maybe it's best for all that he leave after making the worst roster in Fener history without a single creative guy

[Toruko]

Erdem Can is a very skilled coach. He had also started with serious problems in Ankara and formed a great chemistry after that. His offense is flourishing and most importantly he involves Turkish players as well. As I mentioned before Ercan Osmani has great potential as a floor stretching and mobile big. He surprisingly is able to contribute in terms of rebounding as well. Needs a bit work to become more keen and efficient in terms of finishing.

We need more Turkish coaches like him.

[Toruko]

I see much ZOC half court offense optimization in Erdem Can

[Jazz]

Fener have lost a little bit of their identity over the seasons. The Onan, Preldzic, Savas and Peker years were proper Fener basketball.