Euroleague/Club Competition 2019-20: Signings & Rumours - vol. I

[janketa]

Problem with Obradovic that many Fener fans don't see or don't want to see is his stubborn nature of sticking with plan A without any intention of admiting any mistake in process and making some changes in the roster. CoachZ nicely explained that in one of previous posts.

Bringing some mediocre players from China in the middle of the season isn't solution for the problem like we saw, they didn't improve anything.

We miss hard cut including breaking contracts with half of the team. If consequence of that would be lost season who cares. We lost it anyway

Williams, Sloukas, Kalinic, Dixon, Thomas, Nunnally, Duverioglu, Mahmutoglu, Lauvergne out of Fener! Is that 10-15 milions cut?

We missed Milutinov who could replace Vesely, we always late in reactions. In this Obradovic era just Melli signing was in time and that was one of the best signing he ever made.

[Toruko]

I don't think we can underestimate how hungry a lot of fans were to see success. We used to have Fener fans on here who would have fantasy rosters in their signature of players they wanted to sign for the next season, basically Euroleague allstars, the guys who would deliver success and legitimise their team at the highest level. I admire how you want to see young players developed but like I said before, fans like Anil Cakmak probably want to see dunks and glory and that usually involves expensive foreign players.

Everything which is not stable and sustainable will come to an end eventually. Fenerbahces time has found an end. They will always be able to put 15 million Euros on the table but thats it. This franchise is mismanaged to its bones and survives just with postponing problems to the future. Now is reconstruction time.

This franchise hasnt done anything to lower the costs, neither it has a serious player developing system. I want also a ferrari, a private jet, and so. but i cant afford it (i dont really want those things. ). Fans doesnt know how to manage a franchise, they dont know whats possible and what isnt. Many turkish fans are losers individually who connect their success with the fate of the franchise. You cant manage things according to their desires.

If a royal franchise with nearly no limit budget wise has a well-functioning youth system, why couldnt build a franchise a youth system that can at least bring up one role player. Pay them money to keep them on the bench knowing that they will never play is double hurting. Its stupid.

[Toruko]

In my opinion, Fener is not in a situation to compete at the highest level and develop players too. Maybe it would have been possible if 1) country wasn't in a de facto financial crisis 2) club was completely in a financial crisis 3) the fans were calm, collected, patient etc like basketball fans in Germany or similar. I think the best we can do with the current situation is renew with Obradovic, do a renovation with the roster while trying to cut unnecessary costs, and try again. I don't believe any other coach/GM we can persuade to come to Turkey can be better than Obradovic and Gherardini.

For what it's worth, of course I would like to see Turkish talents develop, but definitely not so if Fener will be worse off. I doubt that even most of those talents themselves care about their development as much as Toruko does - most are willing to rot on the bench as long as they make enough money.

You know it better than i do that...

1. you dont have a youth system who can provide you with players
2. nobody cares them
3. that they will never play
4. not a single attempt to reorganize the youth system took place
5. you are just a consuming, unstable franchise.

[vivo]

Everything which is not stable and sustainable will come to an end eventually. Fenerbahces time has found an end. They will always be able to put 15 million Euros on the table but thats it. This franchise is mismanaged to its bones and survives just with postponing problems to the future. Now is reconstruction time.

This franchise hasnt done anything to lower the costs, neither it has a serious player developing system. I want also a ferrari, a private jet, and so. but i cant afford it (i dont really want those things. ). Fans doesnt know how to manage a franchise, they dont know whats possible and what isnt. Many turkish fans are losers individually who connect their success with the fate of the franchise. You cant manage things according to their desires.

If a royal franchise with nearly no limit budget wise has a well-functioning youth system, why couldnt build a franchise a youth system that can at least bring up one role player. Pay them money to keep them on the bench knowing that they will never play is double hurting. Its stupid.

So, a club that has made the final four like 6 consecutive times is mismanaged to its bones? Really? What was the Efes of the past 15 years? Pao of the last 10 years? The examples go on. You are the one who is delusional, the financial problems Fener has does not mean it is "mismanaged to its bones"

[Toruko]

That's the point. Without Obradovic players like they had in their EL championship season wouldn't have even signed with them.

It's literally ignoration of reality if you don't link that title directly with Obradovic. Much more his title than Bogdanovic's or Udoh's. A lot of their fans are saying that Saras is the future of the team. Okay, but I wonder what will happen if Saras doesn't ensue Obradovic. That's a gap that players will consider way to risky even Fenerbahce probably will have the same or equivalent budget like this year. I consider Obradovic's Fenerbahce engagement a disappointment, too. He should have taken at least one more title. They were close in doing so. On the other hand he took an absolute average team to the top of Europe. Other teams have spent a lot of money too without winning anything

You can always build a competitive team with a 30 million budget. Easy calculation. fuck the first season, 6 seasons a 30 millions lets say the mean is 25 this makes 150 million euros but sorry this is a failure. Many coaches were with similar budgets more successful. Its like you promise me something i give you 100 euros and you bring me an apple. Fener fans are happy with the apple which makes the situation even sadder because they never saw an apple. hahahahahhahahahah

[Toruko]

So, a club that has made the final four like 6 consecutive times is mismanaged to its bones? Really? What was the Efes of the past 15 years? Pao of the last 10 years? The examples go on. You are the one who is delusional, the financial problems Fener has does not mean it is "mismanaged to its bones"

Then explain me how 600 hundred million euros debts brought you?

Efes is stable financially, PAO has in 10 years with ZOC 7 Euroleague titles and shrink after that. You had in 6 years 1 title.

[vivo]

Then explain me how 600 hundred million euros debts brought you?

Efes is stable financially, PAO has in 10 years with ZOC 7 Euroleague titles and shrink after that. You had in 6 years 1 title.

600 million euros is after 20+ years of mismanagement, it is a debt of which football branch accounts for probably more than 90%... You would be an idiot to think otherwise. But apparently you believe 30 million euros budget per year means that we have -30 million euros net balance each year with no revenue, so I don't know...

Efes is stable financially because they have an owner, as in, owns the team and puts in as much money from his pocket as he wants and does whatever he wants with the team. I know it is hard concept to understand

I would have liked more trophies of course, but there's no guarantees - especially with the F4. With your logic Efes last year was a total failure because they didn't win the title

Edit: Btw maybe Efes should raise a banner in the arena, saying "Financially stable". I'm sure all 200 Efes fans would like that

[Toruko]

600 million euros is after 20+ years of mismanagement, it is a debt of which football branch accounts for probably more than 90%... You would be an idiot to think otherwise. But apparently you believe 30 million euros budget per year means that we have -30 million euros net balance each year with no revenue, so I don't know..

The income of Fenerbahce Beko Basketball was around 12 million euros lets say roughly 15. It means that you have around -15 million debts each season which makes 75 million euros in 6 years.

Congrats to one title. Apparently you are ok with the outcome. Lets see what the following years bring.

Efes is stable financially because they have an owner, as in, owns the team and puts in as much money from his pocket as he wants and does whatever he wants with the team. I know it is hard concept to understand

Obviously thats the right way but what do I know. The fans are not responsible, the president is not, actually nobody. A very good situation your team is in.

I would have liked more trophies of course, but there's no guarantees - especially with the F4. With your logic Efes last year was a total failure because they didn't win the title

Shortly said you say i dont care development, idc sustainability, Koc will put money on the table anyway, i dont have worries, the only thing i care are trophies. I respect that but this also means we have nothing to discuss. I wish your team success in the future.

[janketa]

20 milion budget is enough for F4 contender if you have smart money management. Problem with Fener we didn't. Last year was example how money can be wasted on mediocres for nothing. Obradovic should take responsibility. Not just by saying that but with doing something about that.

Agreeing to cuted his own salary would be the first step.. Then we will see if he is realy still the best coach or he just rode on high budgets last 20 years.

[vivo]

20 milion budget is enough for F4 contender if you have smart money management. Problem with Fener we didn't. Last year was example how money can be wasted on mediocres for nothing. Obradovic should take responsibility. Not just by saying that but with doing something about that.

Agreeing to cuted his own salary would be the first step.. Then we will see if he is realy still the best coach or he just rode on high budgets last 20 years.

I wonder how many of the champions in the last 20 years were not in Top 5 in terms of budget? Not being a smartass, I genuinely wonder. I believe you don't need THE top budget but it must at least be like a top 5 budget or you need to get really lucky.

[janketa]

I wonder how many of the champions in the last 20 years were not in Top 5 in terms of budget? Not being a smartass, I genuinely wonder. I believe you don't need THE top budget but it must at least be like a top 5 budget or you need to get really lucky.

Regarding I wrote F4 CONTENDER we could count at least 10 teams that were near or F4 participants with around 20 or less milions budget. Title is something different and luck is needed even for 40+ milion budget teams. Remember CSKA title in Berlin?

[vivo]

Regarding I wrote F4 CONTENDER we could count at least 10 teams that were near or F4 participants with around 20 or less milions budget. Title is something different and luck is needed even for 40+ milion budget teams. Remember CSKA title in Berlin?

Yeah, I agree with this as I also say from time to time luck is definitely needed for the title in the current format.

But I daresay you cannot even be a regular F4 contender without a top 5 budget. Teams like Zalgiris, Baskonia etc get ravaged by richer teams and lose their top players when they make a final four. They can still make the playoffs or course. I think "regular F4 contender" means something like "I give team X at least 50% chance they will make the F4" at the start of the season.

[Jazz]

I wonder how many of the champions in the last 20 years were not in Top 5 in terms of budget? Not being a smartass, I genuinely wonder. I believe you don't need THE top budget but it must at least be like a top 5 budget or you need to get really lucky.

Off the top of my head, Maccabi 2014? And that's a team with huge history and support. I guess Olympiacos 2012/13 but I'm sure some on here would dispute that. Spanoulis was probably close to being the best paid player in Europe at the time.

[janketa]

Yeah, I agree with this as I also say from time to time luck is definitely needed for the title in the current format.

But I daresay you cannot even be a regular F4 contender without a top 5 budget. Teams like Zalgiris, Baskonia etc get ravaged by richer teams and lose their top players when they make a final four. They can still make the playoffs or course. I think "regular F4 contender" means something like "I give team X at least 50% chance they will make the F4" at the start of the season.

Let's say that I agree that top5 budget is needed for regular F4 contender. But with wasting money you are in level of the teams with much smaller budgets.

My presumption is smart money management which isn't that often in many clubs. You can see that just in clubs like Zalgiris or Zvezda, From top clubs I think only Efes did that last two seasons.

Zalgiris and Zvezda would be regular F4 candidates with 20 milions budget. Maybe it's something connected with much wider selection of domestic players and we are not in position to do the same.
But Efes example shows it's possible. There are good Turkish players but you must find them and bring. You have to scout every game. We don't do that.

I remember everyone laughed to Sanli, even Efes fans. That guy managed to replace Dunston three months with maybe the best numbers of all bigs in EL. Even Balbay who is the worst shooter in the history of EL with lack in creativity found his role under Ataman.

If you have 20 milions budget, for wages you give 13-15 milions. For first five you spend 10 milions, Let's say Jovic(Brown)-De Colo(Arslan), Datome(Biberovic), Gill(Peters), Milutinov(Yasar). Rest of the money spend on players who are good but under milion per season. This team wouldn't be F4 contender?

[Killer Bob]

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/1049608/vatutin-on-cska-milutinov-deal-why-9-million-write-18-million/