The Final: Spain - France

[usagre]

One figure from the semifinals. Lorenzo Brown a +/- of -7, while Alberto Díaz had a +25.
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Excellent evidence of how plus minus is the most overrated stat. Brown played 34 of the 40 minutes while Diaz played half that amount at only 17. Basically he was a spectator for a majority of the game. Plus minus numbers don’t tell the story especially for bench players because their playing time is limited and the time that they actually do play in many cases is against the other players bench. The stats is a good indicator to see if your bench was a positive or a negative but never the main determining factor in a game. That’s why they are in the bench. If they were good enough they would log the starters minutes. In this specific case Diaz played under 3 minutes in the entire first half. He was excellent in the second half and a big part of the victory. But Alonzo Brown played 34 minutes basically the entire game. Nobody else even played more than 23 minutes lol. It was Brown reason A for the win and a team effort reason B.

[Straight forward]

Excellent evidence of how plus minus is the most overrated stat. Brown played 34 of the 40 minutes while Diaz played half that amount at only 17. Basically he was a spectator for a majority of the game. Plus minus numbers don’t tell the story especially for bench players because their playing time is limited and the time that they actually do play in many cases is against the other players bench. The stats is a good indicator to see if your bench was a positive or a negative but never the main determining factor in a game. That’s why they are in the bench. If they were good enough they would log the starters minutes. In this specific case Diaz played under 3 minutes in the entire first half. He was excellent in the second half and a big part of the victory. But Alonzo Brown played 34 minutes basically the entire game. Nobody else even played more than 23 minutes lol. It was Brown reason A for the win and a team effort reason B.

Absolutely! I'm so hating people who just sneak in for +/- stat (or efficiency) and they make conclusions. Just watch the game. Sometimes a player who has few efficiency points is the most hardworking defensive player on the court, receiving all the fouls at the right moment, etc.

[usagre]

Absolutely! I'm so hating people who just sneak in for +/- stat (or efficiency) and they make conclusions. Just watch the game. Sometimes a player who has few efficiency points is the most hardworking defensive player on the court, receiving all the fouls at the right moment, etc.

Efficiency is a descent indicator since it incorporates a lot but as a stand alone not so much. I like to add minutes played and efficiency to get a clear picture of who’s doing what for a team. For example Spain in the 3 knockout games averages (Throw out preliminary games)

Lorenzo Brown. 56.3. (32/24.3)
Willy. 46.3. (23/23.3)
Juancho. 39.7. (26/13,7)
Rudy. 36.0 (23/13.0)
Garuba. 35.3. (19/16.3)
Diaz. 28.0. (18/10.0)
Arostegui. 28.0. (22/6.0)
Brizuela. 21.0. (16/5.0)

[usagre]

Rudy Gobert has been a beast in the knockout games. Throw out the Poland game which amounted to 40 minutes of garbage time and against Turkey and Italy he is averaging:

32 min. 19.5 pts. 15.5 Reb. 2.0 Ast. 68% Fg. 25.0 efficiency.

I think he continues this trend France wins and he is named MVP.

[R1ou]

Yeah I think I was the only one who put Spain in my top 4 power ranking before the tournament started, but as 4th, definitely not as top 2 lol. Everyone else put Greece in there for some reason I never understand. I had put France as 1... Though neither France or Spain necessarily impressed what matters are the results, and in that regard they’re right back at the top.

Yeah after all people used to put Turkey at top-6 meanwhile the last time they won a knockout game was back in 2014

[Furkan Korkmaz]

Yeah after all people used to put Turkey at top-6 meanwhile the last time they won a knockout game was back in 2014

Oh look it’s our fried r1ou who can’t live without getting triggered lol. I’m pretty sure Turkey showed to be top 6 by losing to the 2 finalists only on details while missing Shane in one game and him injured in the other. Not to mention how much we missed Yurtseven. In the meantime you got beaten hard by the team that in turn collapsed to that same finalist. Hmm.... yes we weren’t lucky to face the Czech in round 1 and played the olympic silver medalist instead. The luck of the draw, but if I had to make a post tournament power rankings, I wouldnt put Greece in top 6 again. That 22-1 run by Germany in third Q was ugly. But forget that, the tournament ended for us, the real question is what will become of you when Calathes retires and the already marginal and old Sloukas becomes even older. Maybe Charalampopoulos can revive his career and save you : )?

[Buzissa]

France confuses me.They are capable of playing the most suffocating defense out of all teams and then find rhythm on offence,but they make so many dumb and cheap turnovers,they remind second division teams sometimes.Spain has the momentum and have looked way more convincing in the knock out stage but i hope for the sake of European basketball that France wins.If FIBA windows Spain plus a D level USA player win,it says it all about the current state of European basketball.

This. To add to the embarrassment, Brown would most likely be the MVP if Spain wins gold.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

This. To add to the embarrassment, Brown would most likely be the MVP if Spain wins gold.

It will be nice. I just hope he won't get injured.

[Levenspiel]

It will be nice. I just hope he won't get injured.

The best signing of the summer

[thiago94]

Absolutely! I'm so hating people who just sneak in for +/- stat (or efficiency) and they make conclusions. Just watch the game. Sometimes a player who has few efficiency points is the most hardworking defensive player on the court, receiving all the fouls at the right moment, etc.

Of course you have to provide some context, but overall I think one player who outscores his teammates +/- numbers by a big margin doesn´t have that number just by chance, especially when playing limited minutes. Nobody, absolutely nobody jump to the conclusion that Diaz won the game on his own. It was a great team effort, that´s basically the headline of everyone´s postgame analysis. Nonetheless I think we all agree, that Diaz and Brown were both absolutely crucial for the outcome and without those two performing as well as they did Spain would have lost the game. General spoken I agree with you. The eye test should always be the main source and the boxscore exist to objectify the eye test to a certain extent.

[MikeMaccabiFan]

The best signing of the summer

I don't want to jinx it, but there was player, who signed in Maccabi, led his team to Eurobasket win and was MVP...We all know how that season ended

[christodoulou76]

ESP crushing so far

[christodoulou76]

FRA have butterfingers, dropping so many passes

[christodoulou76]

Juancho on fire today

[Silent Killer]

Bo cruz shooting the ball well