Eurobasket 2013.qualies

[pohani komarac]

pohani, you're absolutely obsessed with the 'mega-star complex' How many times we all saw mediocre or even atrocious performance from the teams with NBA players (among them even NBA stars): in the last Eurobasket Finland with no NBAers in the roster (Serbia and Macedonia also has neither and both made it to QF) played better than Turkey (4 NBAers, among them - Hedo and Ilyasova), Italy (3 legit NBA stars in Bargnari, Gallinari and Bellinelli) and Great Britain (Deng and Freeland). So it's not about 'show me your 2-3 top players and I'll tell you your team's fate.' Damn, it's European basketball - mostly it was about team-play not about which team has more 'stars' in the roster.

Khryapa (who mostly averages 6 or 7 points and is far from being a flashy player) is no less valuable in Russian medals than Kirilenko and Fridzon in his last two seasons is much better than Holden (individually talented both on offense and defense but awful in organizing team-play) ever was in his playing career.

I didn't say only NBA players, I said atleast decent NBA players or LEADERS of TOP EL CLUBS

Anway Khrypa is one of better, but is still not most val. player for Russia. Not just stats, but presence over all....If you don't know defese is built on main target, and ofense is built on best players. That's why AK is worth more for you then you can see trough stats, Bo to Macedonia or Teodosic and Krstic for Serbia. Of corse there are bas samples of cocky stars, IMO all teams that made it had some stars because nobady can't win with 12 "auxiliary workers" same way you can't built hose with only auxiliary workers. Bakstball is simple and all team needs engineers, their assitans and auxiliary workers.....Same thing has Finland, Macedonia and Serbia on difrent levels, same thing has Russia and so do we...just at the moment our engineers are not top level and not much above our auxiliary workers brings lot of confusion as well

and no definition of TEAM BASKETBALL is not to have 12 equal players, with same amount of minutes. It's find team chemistry, give each player role that he fitc and each players to acept his role....perfect sample is Macedona with clear leader their star Bo who acpted his role and game was built lot trough his individual plays. Antic and Ilijevski who were his main asisstans to last man on bech who didn't play but acepted his role of bench warmer

[Italian Pride]

italy have 3 nba stars?are you kidding me?

[Terrorizer]

pohani, you're absolutely obsessed with the 'mega-star complex' How many times we all saw mediocre or even atrocious performance from the teams with NBA players (among them even NBA stars): in the last Eurobasket Finland with no NBAers in the roster (Serbia and Macedonia also has neither and both made it to QF) played better than Turkey (4 NBAers, among them - Hedo and Ilyasova), Italy (3 legit NBA stars in Bargnari, Gallinari and Bellinelli) and Great Britain (Deng and Freeland). So it's not about 'show me your 2-3 top players and I'll tell you your team's fate.' Damn, it's European basketball - mostly it was about team-play not about which team has more 'stars' in the roster.

Khryapa (who mostly averages 6 or 7 points and is far from being a flashy player) is no less valuable in Russian medals than Kirilenko and Fridzon in his last two seasons is much better than Holden (individually talented both on offense and defense but awful in organizing team-play) ever was in his playing career.

[pohani komarac]

Absolutely disagree. 12 solid mid EL-level players are better than a team with 2 or 3 stars (especially if they are dumb NBAish megalomaniacs) and a huge hole behind them. The main problem for Croatia is still the coaching and a bad atmosphere in the NT with all those boycotts, scandals with the federation and really fucked up rosters where your coaches (especially The Biggest Joke Of The Coach Evar) ignore your best players. Other than that potentially it's still one of the top team in Europe only one level below the very best like Spain, Russia and maybe France.

without same man in kirilenko + holden, 2 russians that gave russia team extra quality you would not win single medal since 98...and same goes to all other teams wich won medals in last 19 years. no team can won single thing with 12 "fridzons bramos or rozics".

[Terrorizer]

Yes, lot of our players cold play in rotation for teams that fight fore medals. We will have about 20 EL players this season and lot more in good midle EL or Eurocup level. Not manny nations could compere with us in depth production

But point is one Bo is worth more for then Planinic, Ukic, Popovic togheter. 1 Krstic or Gasol is worth more for Serbia and Spain then Tomic, Barac, Kasun, Zoric, Andric, Bilan, Loncar etc. for us. You can have 12 equal decent players, but if you don't have 1 or 2 guys that are atlest decent NBA players or leaders in top Euroleague teams that can give team extra qulity it's almost imposible to win medal. All teams that won medals since 93. Germany had atleast one clear cut leader that played in NBA on good leavel atleast or was leader of some top EL club, and by that i don't mean club like Unicaja, but FF team

Absolutely disagree. 12 solid mid EL-level players are better than a team with 2 or 3 stars (especially if they are dumb NBAish megalomaniacs) and a huge hole behind them. The main problem for Croatia is still the coaching and a bad atmosphere in the NT with all those boycotts, scandals with the federation and really fucked up rosters where your coaches (especially The Biggest Joke Of The Coach Evar) ignore your best players. Other than that potentially it's still one of the top team in Europe only one level below the very best like Spain, Russia and maybe France.

[SaliH]

I'm bulgarian turkish. Born and raised in Bulgaria, still living in here.

Are you Turk?
I ask because you have a bulgarian flag in your profile...

PS When is the draw of the groups?

[pohani komarac]

I think you missed my point (I don't count lat 2 years because Vrankovic is big Joke)

Yes, lot of our players cold play in rotation for teams that fight fore medals. We will have about 20 EL players this season and lot more in good midle EL or Eurocup level. Not manny nations could compere with us in depth production

But point is one Bo is worth more for then Planinic, Ukic, Popovic togheter. 1 Krstic or Gasol is worth more for Serbia and Spain then Tomic, Barac, Kasun, Zoric, Andric, Bilan, Loncar etc. for us. You can have 12 equal decent players, but if you don't have 1 or 2 guys that are atlest decent NBA players or leaders in top Euroleague teams that can give team extra qulity it's almost imposible to win medal. All teams that won medals since 93. Germany had atleast one clear cut leader that played in NBA on good leavel atleast or was leader of some top EL club, and by that i don't mean club like Unicaja, but FF team

And curently we don't have such player. Closest thing to that are Tomic and Bogdanovic, but they are still not that level (level that we had in Giricek and Vujcic when we should play semifanals)....so untill we fiand atleast 1 or 2 such caliber players, not to metnion level of Kukoc and Petrovic it will be almost imposible to win medal for us. So reality is that we have deep team but we lack idividual talent that can ennoble our team just like Gasol and Navarro ennoble team Spain, Kirilenko Russia, Dirk Germany, Papaloukas Greece or what Lakovic and Lorbek gave to Slovenia at 09. EB

[Tasos Peiraias]

WOW, Turkey at Pot 5............
We are totally fucked up
But after all, it's our fault we're behind teams like Ukraine, Finland etc.

Are you Turk?
I ask because you have a bulgarian flag in your profile...

[Joško Poljak Fan]

I'm not sure where did you find Croatia had individual talent??? That is exactly what Croatia missed over the years. We always had 10-12 good players but never had 1 or 2 players that can take us over next level. The last time we were close to medal before being robed in QF was Eurobasket 05. when we had atlest some decent individual talent in Giricek and Vujcic in their prime years

Okay, I know Slovenia 2001 wins in such comparsions (Zdovc, Milič, Ariel McDonald, Gorenc, Lakovič, Udrih, Smodiš, Tušek, Nesterovič...most of them near their peak, being at worse 2nd most stacked NT out there, while ending up 15th ), recently in my opinion Croatia lacks that team factor and eventhough I understand you guys are definately used of higher level of talent from the past, I still believe lots of NT's would gladly use the likes of Ukić, Tomić, Tomas, Žorić, Banić, Bogdanović etc. The comparison came to my mind due to the play at last eurobasket and games in Stožice this year, when Croatia imo did underperform game wise.
In 05, things should be very different, I am well aware of that... Vujčić alone boycotting eurobaskets from than on was a big factor let alone the fact you guys should've get the finals back than.

[surfer]

WOW, Turkey at Pot 5............
We are totally fucked up
But after all, it's our fault we're behind teams like Ukraine, Finland etc.

mmmm no, we are not. they are totally f*cked up.

[pohani komarac]

I wouldn't be as worried with the group draw. Injury, a player missing or even worse in bad shape play bigger overall part with this tournament than the draw imo. Afterall half of those teams heavily overperform or underperform considering their pre-tournament expectations.

Unlike in clubs, where normaly you get to play alongisde carefully selected teamates, you get to play along the players you've got and that's about it. The later can be a relatively big issue, when either due coach, or some individuals the team just can't make it through.
Most people imo wrongfully consider individual talent as a sole guarantee for a succes, personaly I'd bet more on Finland if they'll manage to keep their playing level from 2011 than Croatia, that has the talent yet is missing that team factor, that'd make those individuals function the way they should.Anyway, it would be apropriate for the hosts to win it all at least every 20 years or so

I'm not sure where did you find Croatia had individual talent??? That is exactly what Croatia missed over the years. We always had 10-12 good players but never had 1 or 2 players that can take us over next level. The last time we were close to medal before being robed in QF was Eurobasket 05. when we had atlest some decent individual talent in Giricek and Vujcic in their prime years

[SaliH]

WOW, Turkey at Pot 5............
We are totally fucked up
But after all, it's our fault we're behind teams like Ukraine, Finland etc.

[Bosnian 23]

Thanks for the updated pots. Glad to BiH at least fourth. With those, a Dream Group would be:

Makedonija
Great Britain
Montenegro
BiH
Belgium
Sweden

Worst Group:

Spain
Slovenia
Germany
BiH
Georgia
Serbia

[Tasos Peiraias]

They changed the pots.These are the new ones:
Pot 1:Spain,France,Russia,FYROM
Pot 2:Lithuania,Greece,Slovenia,Great Britain
Pot 3:Germany,Croatia,Italy,Montenegro
Pot 4:Finland,Poland,Bosnia-Hezergovina,Ukraine
Pot 5:Georgia,Belgium,Latvia,Turkey
Pot 6:Chezh Republic,Israel,Sweden,Serbia

According to these I would like a group like that:
1.FYROM
2.Greece
3.Germany
4.Poland
5.Turkey
6.Chezh Republic

The final standings:
1.Greece
2.Germany
3.Turkey

4.FYROM
5.Chezh Republic
6.Poland

[Joško Poljak Fan]

I wouldn't be as worried with the group draw. Injury, a player missing or even worse in bad shape play bigger overall part with this tournament than the draw imo. Afterall half of those teams heavily overperform or underperform considering their pre-tournament expectations.

Unlike in clubs, where normaly you get to play alongisde carefully selected teamates, you get to play along the players you've got and that's about it. The later can be a relatively big issue, when either due coach, or some individuals the team just can't make it through.
Most people imo wrongfully consider individual talent as a sole guarantee for a succes, personaly I'd bet more on Finland if they'll manage to keep their playing level from 2011 than Croatia, that has the talent yet is missing that team factor, that'd make those individuals function the way they should.

Anyway, it would be apropriate for the hosts to win it all at least every 20 years or so