Players that we can have naturalized

[magic_chiongson]

This is close to impossible.

First, he do not have passport UNTIL NOW.

Second, He played for almost all youth team of usa.

Third, USA and his nba team must also allow him. (Highly unlikely)

Fourth, He already made a choice right? He chose usa youth team instead of batang gilas.

Fifth, He can only play for us as naturalized. I think we need our NP to be a Tall wing player just because we need it more.

I am still greatful to Jalen because he recruited Kai to join the G league(Yes, Jalen suggested him). But I don't think he will play for us

this thread is called "Players that we can naturalize" and i already said it's unlikely. besides, jalen is a trailblazer being the first to join the g-league program.

[mathematicianrcg]

this thread is called "Players that we can naturalize" and i already said it's unlikely. besides, jalen is a trailblazer being the first to join the g-league program.

Yeah unlikely.

And even in Naturalized route. The only way Jalen will join us is if he will have a POOR performance in nba that will lead to he will not be selected in USA team.

But who knows maybe, he will have a poor performance in nba. But I hope Jalen will succeed in Nba

[magic_chiongson]

sigh...you didn't get it. i'm hoping (even though unlikely) that jalen green as an nba superstar decides to play for us in the future instead of team USA. be a trailblazer, something hakeem olajuwon, patrick ewing, tim duncan, and kyrie irving considered doing but wasn't able to for their respective countries (nigeria, jamaica, virgin islands, australia).

[mathematicianrcg]

sigh...you didn't get it. i'm hoping (even though unlikely) that jalen green as an nba superstar decides to play for us in the future instead of team USA. be a trailblazer, something hakeem olajuwon, patrick ewing, tim duncan, and kyrie irving considered doing but wasn't able to for their respective countries (nigeria, jamaica, virgin islands, australia).

You said it. They just considered. But literally all of them played for Team USA. They still chose USA.

[mathematicianrcg]

Hope Kouame and Diouf can be considered locals. Especially Kouame. He learmed the game here.

So, we have a solution to that hagop rule. When we have import living here for a long time with no Filipino Blood. We can apply him
as an exemption to the hagop rule.

If that happens. Many 15- 16 yrs old Imports will want to live here when they want a chance to play for our gilas team.

Hope everything works out for Kouame.

[Alex07]

FIBA rules are more friendly to jus soli citizenship countries.I hope they'll just adopt the FIFA eligibility rules for the citizenship rules be fair to everybody.

[curtaincall]

FIBA rules are more friendly to jus soli citizenship countries.I hope they'll just adopt the FIFA eligibility rules for the citizenship rules be fair to everybody.

I agree. These rules are easier to go around if a country is under jus soli. But come on I dont hear other jus sanguinis country say anything about the rule. They just play by it. Spain (Champs/Powerhouse), Italy, are examples even our neighbours in Asia like Japan, South Korea and China. Its not like these countries are doing a Qatar and just handing out passports. Other countries are actually training and developing these kids. I believe the hagop rule is actually fair to everyone. Hagop rule exposed our lack in development. We continuously seek 6’5+ wings. We always seek finished products from other countries. We’re probably the only country that has a bunch of Filipino Associations all over the world that is used for some sort of recruitment program. Japan, Ireland, Italy, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

[Alex07]

I agree. These rules are easier to go around if a country is under jus soli. But come on I dont hear other jus sanguinis country say anything about the rule. They just play by it. Spain (Champs/Powerhouse), Italy, are examples even our neighbours in Asia like Japan, South Korea and China. Its not like these countries are doing a Qatar and just handing out passports. Other countries are actually training and developing these kids. I believe the hagop rule is actually fair to everyone. Hagop rule exposed our lack in development. We continuously seek 6’5+ wings. We always seek finished products from other countries. We’re probably the only country that has a bunch of Filipino Associations all over the world that is used for some sort of recruitment program. Japan, Ireland, Italy, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

you agreed but contradicted to what I said. Qatar's case is actually different since they have a more liberal naturalization process and can naturalized people in a matter of months. Just like the case of their men's handball team wherein they naturalized a couple of players without a hint of Qatari blood. FIFA's eligibility statutes are not only jus sanguinis citizenship friendly but applies to both residency and jus soli doctrine as well.

FIFA ELIGIBILITY RULES – ARTICLE 15-18 of the FIFA STATUTES

15 Principle
1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for
the representative teams of the Association of that country.

2. With the exception of the conditions specified in article 18 below, any Player who has already participated in a match (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category or any type of football for one Association may not play an
international match for a representative team of another Association.

16 Nationality entitling players to represent more than one Association
1. A Player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality,
may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:

(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association; (< jus soli)
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association; (< applies to Filipino foreigners; jus sanginis)
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association; (< applies to Filipino foreigners; jus sanguinis)
(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years. (< this provision applies to Angelo Kuoame ; residency)

2. Regardless of par. 1 above, Associations sharing a common nationality may make an agreement under which item (d) of
par. 1 of this article is deleted completely or amended to specify a longer time limit. Such agreements shall be lodged with
and approved by the Executive Committee.

17 Acquisition of a new nationality
Any Player who refers to art.15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 15 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:

(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least fi ve years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

18 Change of Association
1. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:
(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an official competition at “A” international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition for his
current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.
(b) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition in which he has already played for his previous Association.

2. If a Player who has been fielded by his Association in an international match in accordance with art.15 par. 2 permanently loses the nationality of that country without his consent or against his will due to a decision by a government
authority, he may request permission to play for another Association whose nationality he already has or has acquired. 3. Any Player who has the right to change Associations in accordance with par. 1 and 2 above shall submit a written, substantiated request to the FIFA general secretariat. The Players’ Status Committee shall decide on the request.
The procedure will be in accordance with the Rules Governing the Procedures of the Players’ Status Committee and the Dispute Resolution Chamber. Once the Player has filed his request, he is not eligible to play for any representative
team until his request has been processed.

Here, although the rule may be a little complicated to some countries who may have citizens that could represent either country, the main point of it is that a player may choose whatever country he wishes to play for but that should be in accordance of course and within the ambit of the said country's citizenship laws.following such procedure, FIBA would not deny anyone's birth right to play for the country of their parents and even grandparents. Any question as to wether a person possesses the nationality of a particular state should be determined in accordance with laws of that state.

Hague Convention on Certain Questions Relating to the Conflict of Nationality Laws (1930)

Article 1 Each State determines under its own law, who are its nationals. This law shall be recognised by otherStates in so far as it is consistent with international conventions, international custom, and the principlesof law generally recognized with regard to nationality...

Article 2 Any question as to whether a person possesses the nationality of a particular State shall be determined in accordance with the law of that State.

[analyzed]

^
Here is the thing though, unless you want this forum to be a discussion of ideology (what's right legally) then all this discussions of using FIFA rules or whatever seems more logical is just that. A discussion limited for people who like discussing what should be . It isn't really a practical reality of the current situation where FIBA is now in terms of their rules (it's been close to a decade that the U16 ( normally referred to as Hagop rule) has been applied. And there really is very very little push back from almost every country in the world. It's generally very accepted. So in essence the real practical side of trying to argue against it to have realistic chance of change has litteraly passed , tapos na , matagal na!

It's a free world though so people are free to discuss forever.,.. do note it is only in this Philippine forum alone that it's discussed with any significance of regularity, the rest of the world has moved on.

[Alex07]

^
Here is the thing though, unless you want this forum to be a discussion of ideology (what's right legally) then all this discussions of using FIFA rules or whatever seems more logical is just that. A discussion limited for people who like discussing what should be . It isn't really a practical reality of the current situation where FIBA is now in terms of their rules (it's been close to a decade that the U16 ( normally referred to as Hagop rule) has been applied. And there really is very very little push back from almost every country in the world. It's generally very accepted. So in essence the real practical side of trying to argue against it to have realistic chance of change has litteraly passed , tapos na , matagal na!

It's a free world though so people are free to discuss forever.,.. do note it is only in this Philippine forum alone that it's discussed with any significance of regularity, the rest of the world has moved on.

it's not as if i am encouraging anybody to be a communist or something else,i'm not encouraging anybody to believe in unicorns and it's not a bible expedition for it to be an "ideological" subject. There is a legal basis on the argument and you could always contradict it with something that contains legalese data or factual data. It is as if you are saying that people in the legal profession are just making things up, again it has legal and factual basis. It may not be practicable for some (subjectively) but not for others.

[analyzed]

^
Not discounting you can convince people on the merits, but aside from the fun of discussion and debate , it really does not serve any real practical purpose given where the FIBA U16 rule is already well established and accepted. (it isn't like their rule is illegal or anything) it's generally decently sound logic

[mathematicianrcg]

How ironic that hagop rule is made for Qatar.

But Qatar is one of the most less affected. Haha.

They are a Monarchy. That is a big advantage for them

[Alex07]

^
Not discounting you can convince people on the merits, but aside from the fun of discussion and debate , it really does not serve any real practical purpose given where the FIBA U16 rule is already well established and accepted. (it isn't like their rule is illegal or anything) it's generally decently sound logic

thats of course your opinion and i have to respect it even if i dont necessarily agree

[analyzed]

thats of course your opinion and i have to respect it even if i dont necessarily agree

I agree the part of the U16 rule being generally decently sound legally logical is my opinion, but the part that it is universally accepted and established already by the global Basketball community is not , it's an observation based on factual feedback.

[lurklurk]

i think the reason Hagop rule is constantly being brought up is because SBP has not addressed it--meaning no program or structural change has been implemented for philippine basketball to adapt to this rule. all SBP has done is ask for exemption.