Players that we can have naturalized

[mathematicianrcg]

JC will be our NP. We dont need a NP big. We have a lot of bigs. In fact, we have a surplus of bigs now. And lack of tall wings and guards.
Except if Kouame will be given exemption.

Thats why Papa and Demisana,.and Lopez must play the wings. The C and Pf position is already gotten by Kai and Aj.

[mathematicianrcg]

We all know that. It doesn't make the request devoid of legal basis. all it proves is that the present FIBA board is unreasonable.

Well we can say their unreasonable to them 100 times, but have no effect.

There must have other countries that have the same case with us. But as far as I know, there is no fiba asian team that is working to exempt an nba caliber player like JC. So, if phil os the only country requesting, it will just put to naught.

[barok espinoza]

Well we can say their unreasonable to them 100 times, but have no effect.

There must have other countries that have the same case with us. But as far as I know, there is no fiba asian team that is working to exempt an nba caliber player like JC. So, if phil os the only country requesting, it will just put to naught.

you think you are being practical but you're just adding a layer of complexity to the problem, imo.

if FIBA will not allow for the exemption of JC for reasons only known to them and perhaps their chinese cohorts, what makes you think FIBA will consider our application for exemption for kouame when the' end goal in doing so is to include JC in the roster as the naturalized player? this plan does not only reek of credulity, but it also screams desperation if you ask me.

[analyzed]

Let's say assuming nothing changes as far as FIBA s stance is, Kouame is naturalized via Congress and is never granted an exception, but in the windows, and tournaments (Asia cup and Asiad) leading up to 2023 WC we use Kouame as a naturalized center (and most of the games Kai and sometimes AJ isn't available, due to commitments with a US team, same with JC)
Then in the WC all are available, and we opt with JC as NP instead of Kouame (exception not granted). Just me, that isn't such a bad outcome and is actually very common for many National teams, like Korea might have used a player of Korean heritage as its NP then later on a resident import like Ractlift.. What is wrong with that approach. The exception for Kouame is just a bonus, but if doesnt happen we at least have a center for like the next 10 yrs especially when Kai or AJ are unavailable. It's still a good. Situation and it's not like Ange naturalization was a waste of time, especially if he isn't paid a big contract like you would need to for an NBA player that's naturalized

If our issues is FIBA isn't recognising our Jus Sung.. Laws then take at up with a sports tribunal or something, but that's a seperate discussion independent of the planning of Gilas management putting a team together for the 2023 World Cup. Let the SBP lawyers deal with that if that's what people want to pursue, just note there isn't anyone else (other federation) that I'm aware of that is seriously thinking of making an appeal with the Sports tribunal, it makes us look as the only ones whinning, while everyone else is moving along (10 yes after U16 rule has been quite know and accepted)

[Alex07]

Kai and AJ should get used to physicality and get a rough and tough when playing against the other bigs.Tale for instance this game of China vs Iran in the Asian Games.Heddadi might retire soon but guys like Zhou Qi and Wang Zhelin will be there for a bit longer.These are the type of guys Kai and AJ May face in the near future.Carl Tamayo can be our version of China’s Abudurexiti.Any news about Sage?

[barok espinoza]

just so we're clear, the issues (with their corresponding resolutions) that have been discussed thus far are as follows:

w/n "right of blood" is excluded in the exemption - no, it is not excluded. the 3rd exemption covers a wide variety of exemptions which should include right of blood because it is a generally-accepted principle of international law;

w/n "right of blood" is meaningless in the context of FIBA rules and regulations- no, it is not meaningless. on the contrary, it is more meaningful than fiba would care to admit considering it even allows the so-called "half-bloods" like standhardinger to play in fiba tournaments as naturalized players for their respective teams, a proof that FIBA recognizes, to some extent, the right of blood principle. more so, exemption 3 speaks of "any other criteria capable of establishing a significant link between the player and the country", thus, invoking "right of blood" is as good as any other valid reason; and

w/n arguing along the lines of "right of blood" in the case of JC has strong legal basis- it has strong legal basis. the fact that the present FIBA does not want to recognize it doesn't lessen the strength of the legal argument. it only lessens FIBA as an institution.

now, we can move forward and discuss kouame's naturalization and exemption. unlike the points that have been resolved above, this is only based on my opinion.

at the outset, i'll admit that this is really a clever plan. but if we will operate on the assumption that there are people in FIBA who are inclined to reject JC's exemption due to the undue advantage an NBA player will bring to our team, then this has a snowball's chance in hell as they will just easily see right through this ruse and deny kouame's application outright.

but let's cut fiba some slack and pretend they're very reasonable people. in that case, i will have to say that this might work.

[analyzed]

Won't argue if FIBA is making the right decisions based on sound legal basis, that's a discussion of legal matters and not how FiBA has been assessing exceptions, note where not talking about eligibility on the 1st instance assessment (which is clearly the Hagop 16 rule)

-so first the fact that heritage players like Standhardinger and Pringle play as naturalize players does in no way suggest that heritage and blood has been used for exceptions on the contrary it shows FiBA does not recognise blood as a valid exception reason (they're consistent with their decisions)

The basis for Kouame exceptin obviously wont be for blood but for residency and years playing locally, which consistently has been approved by FIBA as valid reasons

Again let's not confuse motive because of threat of a good player for other countries to probably complain with the basis of their complaint, if they protest Kouame they can't say the basis of his exemption is not based on consistent reason used (residency and playing yrs locally), that's the difference

Call FIBA s decision criteria flawed legally, but here is the thing it's like applying for a job or a visa, and if your getting accepted or denied for clearly the same reasons. There is no point in arguing why u got rejected, but maybe u can ask a tribunal or HR that the criteria system they're using is flawed

[barok espinoza]

Won't argue if FIBA is making the right decisions based on sound legal basis, that's a discussion of legal matters and not how FiBA has been assessing exceptions, note where not talking about eligibility on the 1st instance assessment (which is clearly the Hagop 16 rule)

-so first the fact that heritage players like Standhardinger and Pringle play as naturalize players does in no way suggest that heritage and blood has been uses for exceptions on the contrary it shows FiBA does not recognise blood as a valid exception reason (they're consistent with their decision)

The basis for Kouame exceptin obviously wont be for blood but for residency and years playing locally, which consistently has been approved by FIBA as valid reasons

Again let's not confuse motive because of threat of a good player for other countries to probably complain with the basis of their complaint, if they protest Kouame they can't say the basis of his exemption is not based on consistent reason used (residency and playing yrs locally), that's the difference

Call FIBA s decision criteria flawed legally, but here is the thing it's like applying for a job or a visa, and if your getting accepted or denied for clearly the same reasons. There is no point in arguing why u got rejected, but maybe u can ask a tribunal or HR that the criteria system they're using is flawed

discussions based on legal grounds are inevitably unavoidable when the topic involves a legal matter such as a document that imposes obligations.

fiba recognizes right of blood as an exception to the hagop rule, although the recognition is limited in its scope. if it doesn't recognize it at all, there'll be a total ban on heritage players. this is the interpretation that is more in line with the generally-accepted principles of international law.

now, back to kouame.

player david lisch was naturalized as an australian citizen in 2016 and was able to play in the rio olympics that same year as a local. if FIBA is fair, i think we can make a strong case for kouame. as long as we do not abandon our position on clarkson, then i'm all for it. my only apprehension now is that fiba will do its best to find loopholes. so, to strengthen our position, kouame should be taught tagalog, among other things. we can also strengthen our case if he's legally adopted by his guardians (though a bit extreme) or if he marries a local (not advisable if the girl is not rich and is ugly)

but before anything else, he should be naturalized now.

[analyzed]

Process of naturalization for Kouame under our laws has started (bill filled)
Additionally documentary evidence of circumstances about adoption, age of expression of intent made with parents approval have all been documented and prepared.
Including adoption of Philippine culture (language etc)

Just a point on the feasibility of using heritage blood as one of reasons for exceptions, to be feasible FIBA has to think about how to apply it to nations with high degree of migrant communities that make up their population, take example Australia or the US, who's majority of population is of European entnicity, so technically speaking anyone in the world with European entnicity with linkages to the say the Australian gene type can be considered as having heritage blood roots to Australia. In the latter example you can see why legal documented papers linked to citizenship is a more feasible approach in determining significant links to the country as indicated as possible "additional" reasons for exception. Emphasis is on additional, not other, residency and # of years playing will still be factored in the decision for exception (which JC gets no points for ) assuming pass mark is 2 out of 3 (67%) JC won't pass even if he gets blood as a point recognized

[barok espinoza]

that's good to hear. so it's pending before the committee on justice in hrep.

i think adoption proceedings will be reliant on the result of the naturalization process.

[analyzed]

Prospect naturalize players

2021-2027 - Kouame
2023 - Clarkson
2027- Hepa, Green

2017-18.-Standhardinger and Pringle

Welcome to reality

[DenzelGreat8]

Yup reality is already accepted, hence sbp is pursuing local eligibility of Kouame. If ever Kouame gets the nod, who do you think will be the best big between Kai, Edu and Kouame? Who starts and what might be a better front court duo?

Lastly, what are your thoughts on how they can fare vs:
Japan - Fazekas plus Hachimura
China - Wang Zhelin and zhou Qi

[analyzed]

Just on the topic 1st, for the Asian games when they allow multiple players with passport over 16 years old, there is actually no distinction between a player who was naturalize that has heritage blood like Pringle and Clarkson with naturalize players like Doulthit and Ractlift, the two if naturalize for the same country could play together in the Asian games.

[mathematicianrcg]

Yup reality is already accepted, hence sbp is pursuing local eligibility of Kouame. If ever Kouame gets the nod, who do you think will be the best big between Kai, Edu and Kouame? Who starts and what might be a better front court duo?

Lastly, what are your thoughts on how they can fare vs:
Japan - Fazekas plus Hachimura
China - Wang Zhelin and zhou Qi

Of course, Kai and Aj. They have chemistry. They compliment each other.

Kouame will be the backup surprise big along with Junmar

[mathematicianrcg]

Just on the topic 1st, for the Asian games when they allow multiple players with passport over 16 years old, there is actually no distinction between a player who was naturalize that has heritage blood like Pringle and Clarkson with naturalize players like Doulthit and Ractlift, the two if naturalize for the same country could play together in the Asian games.

Wow. Hope Fiba adapts asian games rules