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Future Big Men Of Philippine Basketball

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  • Originally posted by PaulLee3 View Post


    John Renie Tagocon 15 years old, 6'7" with a 7'0" wingspan. Born in 2007


    Extremely raw

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    • Originally posted by TheRodster21 View Post


      Extremely raw
      Kid's orientation is a bigman. Hope he can still be developed to become a tweener. Well, unless he grows to 206cm.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DAdmiral View Post
        to me at the world level, Gilas suffers more at 4 ( as a liability) if we utilise a slow big (for world standards) like Japath, AJ or Carl , as compared to going mobile versatile ( Malonzo, Dwight , and possibly (Oftana) . (i'm serious) , the damage and liability of not closing out in the perimeter in the modern FIBA game of stretch bigs and not getting to lose balls is significantly a bigger liability than defending inside ( when you have a tall center like Kai already) , it's really more of a pace and space problem than it is a ceiling height issue
        Honestly why we need to develop more mobile fours while not sacrificing ceiling. Carl and Balti are a start, as they can now switch to the perimeter a bit. Among the best bigs that are 196-203cm, we'll need to pick out mobile, long ones and keep honing their mobility instead of having them just play inside.

        Luis Pablo of LSGH and maybe Alex Konov (who's a tweener) may be good candidates for a mobile 4 who can switch and close out.

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        • ^^
          It has to start early ( at least before 16 yrs old ) and what has to start early isn't just offensive perimeter skill, but more importantly learning how to defend the perimeter in "real games" at a very early age "15 yrs old". Now here is the problem who in the Philippines who is standing 6'3 above as a 15 years old get's repetitions in the high school level to guard primary the perimeter one on one , (not zone tayo lang sa ilalim) . i mean seriously did Carl Tamayo get reps in high school primary guarding the perimeter one on one? (you know the answer )

          in contrast CJ Amos is exclusively a guard in Australia, (known as a perimete stopper) , now would there be any realistic chance he would have that role if he grew up in the Philippines ? ( again you know the answer)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DAdmiral View Post
            ^^
            It has to start early ( at least before 16 yrs old ) and what has to start early isn't just offensive perimeter skill, but more importantly learning how to defend the perimeter in "real games" at a very early age "15 yrs old". Now here is the problem who in the Philippines who is standing 6'3 above as a 15 years old get's repetitions in the high school level to guard primary the perimeter one on one , (not zone tayo lang sa ilalim) . i mean seriously did Carl Tamayo get reps in high school primary guarding the perimeter one on one? (you know the answer )

            in contrast CJ Amos is exclusively a guard in Australia, (known as a perimete stopper) , now would there be any realistic chance he would have that role if he grew up in the Philippines ? ( again you know the answer)
            We aren't exactly known for switching PnR's and all that, e. Even a big just learning how to switch to the perimeter is big enough. Carl and Baltazar learned how to switch only in their college years. Switching should be encouraged, rather than zoning in the youth levels.

            Switch-heavy schemes are more common in the college ranks and even the pros (if teams have the personnel) than in the high school level below.

            This is why I think training everybody as guards is important, both offensively and especially defensively. We're good at guard training, so why not start everybody at that spot? Even a 5-guard lineup in the youth and HS levels can be a big help development-wise. As for rebounding and boxing out, as well as screening, EVERYBODY should learn those now.

            We should take some inspiration from Total Football, where players can switch anywhere on the football pitch. Translated to basketball, instead of switching positions on the court, you switch defenders on men instead.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DAdmiral View Post
              i think in today's game as long as the energy level is high ( with Malonzo, Brownlee and Dwight providing constant presure ) the lack of size , isn't an issue

              to force the ball inside is just no longer effective

              it's not like Brownlee, Malonzo and Dwight , can be eaten up easily alive by the medicore 6' 8 bigs of Lebanon

              they will be active and gang colapsing

              the bigger concern is Lebanon bigs cannot keep with the speed of the 3

              ganoon na yung basketball

              BTW for Jordani I think they will add size

              This version of Lebanon isn't just good, the bigs are mediocre
              If only some of our 195-200cm (6'5"-6'6") bigs were as fast as at least a Dwight. Develop the more mobile ones to be quick and energetic. If we wanna keep being small, we have to train speed in all positions, including 4 and 5.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by IPC View Post
                If only some of our 195-200cm (6'5"-6'6") bigs were as fast as at least a Dwight. Develop the more mobile ones to be quick and energetic. If we wanna keep being small, we have to train speed in all positions, including 4 and 5.
                the thing is even if say Dwight is 2 inches shorter than a lanky 6'6 Pinoy , but is 30 lbs heavier and still faster. I really do not care for the 2 inches , and do not care if they happen to have guard skills ( this is all bonus) , the point I'm trying to make is you really cannot go wrong by just training all our basketball young players as guards.. and build them physical and speed abilities. whether they end up as bigs, wings or guards is all a bonus.

                the worst thing you can have is a 6'3 player who only knows how to play center LOL, while that sounds funny, in the Philippines this is normally the case , just look at NCAA high schools and even college

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DAdmiral View Post
                  the thing is even if say Dwight is 2 inches shorter than a lanky 6'6 Pinoy , but is 30 lbs heavier and still faster. I really do not care for the 2 inches , and do not care if they happen to have guard skills ( this is all bonus) , the point I'm trying to make is you really cannot go wrong by just training all our basketball young players as guards.. and build them physical and speed abilities. whether they end up as bigs, wings or guards is all a bonus.

                  the worst thing you can have is a 6'3 player who only knows how to play center LOL, while that sounds funny, in the Philippines this is normally the case , just look at NCAA high schools and even college
                  Oh, I know plenty of 6'3"-6'5" players that can only defend the paint. Hahahahahahaha. Jeez, man. People still insist in developing those guys as bigs. Good for a chance at a PBA career, not so much if we want to develop FIBA world-level or even Asian level bigs.

                  And training as guards, yes, I totally agree. I was actually consistently pushing for our youngsters to start as guards as a rule. The important thing is, they should have the lateral quickness to defend. Not just guard skills, the ability to switch to the perimeter and help out on defense. If you're 6'4"-6'7", you need that lateral quickness, whether as a guard, wing, or big. That's how you compensate with speed, not training 6'4"-6'7" bigs to exclusively defend the paint.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by IPC View Post
                    If only some of our 195-200cm (6'5"-6'6") bigs were as fast as at least a Dwight. Develop the more mobile ones to be quick and energetic. If we wanna keep being small, we have to train speed in all positions, including 4 and 5.
                    i've pointed this out to you years ago. if you see a potential player who can be tall and decide to develop him in whatever, late ka na.
                    if a kid, 8-10yrs old wants to play, teach him everything dribbling, shooting, basic plays. the works. everyone, girl\boy, in the city, in the province, short or tall.

                    when they start to grow up and develop, if we are looking at national team, then you pick who has the balance of skill and height and let the others just develop through. if there's a late bloomer, then consider that player later on. for the rest, even if they dont grow to "internationally competitive" height, hopefully they can raise competition locally. we don't have a lot of tall players. if we did then we shouldn't have any problems plugging holes.

                    even if its funny to see 6'3 centers, thing is, not everyone is athletic enough or even good enough to move into a better position. and dont get me started with not having a coach who can guide them properly. so we will constantly see this. do we just tell these kids to stop playing? there are leagues who can take them in. let them. we just dont consider them for NT. the moment we make these less athletic not so tall kids to ease out of their basketball dreams the more we see kids playing online games. its already happening. im not against whatever these games are, but id rather see 6'3 and below kids playing on the court dreaming to be better while being fit. rather than a 6'4 and above kid sitting around playing until 3am on their phone because they got shot done from playing basketball earlier on.
                    WE DON'T COUNT YEARS, WE COUNT CENTURIES

                    P. Noval, A.H. Lacson, Dapitan, Espanya
                    SANTO TOMAS APAT NA DAAN

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by IPC View Post
                      Oh, I know plenty of 6'3"-6'5" players that can only defend the paint. Hahahahahahaha. Jeez, man. People still insist in developing those guys as bigs. Good for a chance at a PBA career, not so much if we want to develop FIBA world-level or even Asian level bigs.

                      And training as guards, yes, I totally agree. I was actually consistently pushing for our youngsters to start as guards as a rule. The important thing is, they should have the lateral quickness to defend. Not just guard skills, the ability to switch to the perimeter and help out on defense. If you're 6'4"-6'7", you need that lateral quickness, whether as a guard, wing, or big. That's how you compensate with speed, not training 6'4"-6'7" bigs to exclusively defend the paint.
                      I agree with this. The problem with basketball more than any other sport is you can thrive without skill or athleticism if you are talller or stronger than your peers. I think more than skill, kids should just be allowed to run around and get used to running and defending laterally. Even slow poke Jokic looks natural running even if a bit slower. Compared to Kai, who you could see had a running gait that looks like someone who is not used to running.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by C2Hamm View Post
                        i've pointed this out to you years ago. if you see a potential player who can be tall and decide to develop him in whatever, late ka na.
                        if a kid, 8-10yrs old wants to play, teach him everything dribbling, shooting, basic plays. the works. everyone, girl\boy, in the city, in the province, short or tall.

                        when they start to grow up and develop, if we are looking at national team, then you pick who has the balance of skill and height and let the others just develop through. if there's a late bloomer, then consider that player later on. for the rest, even if they dont grow to "internationally competitive" height, hopefully they can raise competition locally. we don't have a lot of tall players. if we did then we shouldn't have any problems plugging holes.

                        even if its funny to see 6'3 centers, thing is, not everyone is athletic enough or even good enough to move into a better position. and dont get me started with not having a coach who can guide them properly. so we will constantly see this. do we just tell these kids to stop playing? there are leagues who can take them in. let them. we just dont consider them for NT. the moment we make these less athletic not so tall kids to ease out of their basketball dreams the more we see kids playing online games. its already happening. im not against whatever these games are, but id rather see 6'3 and below kids playing on the court dreaming to be better while being fit. rather than a 6'4 and above kid sitting around playing until 3am on their phone because they got shot done from playing basketball earlier on.
                        Yeah, I can agree with that. They can make a living in the other leagues like MPBL, VisMin Cup, etc., even the PBA.

                        But for the international scene, we need to really be a bit more selective.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by C2Hamm View Post
                          i've pointed this out to you years ago. if you see a potential player who can be tall and decide to develop him in whatever, late ka na.
                          if a kid, 8-10yrs old wants to play, teach him everything dribbling, shooting, basic plays. the works. everyone, girl\boy, in the city, in the province, short or tall.

                          when they start to grow up and develop, if we are looking at national team, then you pick who has the balance of skill and height and let the others just develop through. if there's a late bloomer, then consider that player later on. for the rest, even if they dont grow to "internationally competitive" height, hopefully they can raise competition locally. we don't have a lot of tall players. if we did then we shouldn't have any problems plugging holes.

                          even if its funny to see 6'3 centers, thing is, not everyone is athletic enough or even good enough to move into a better position. and dont get me started with not having a coach who can guide them properly. so we will constantly see this. do we just tell these kids to stop playing? there are leagues who can take them in. let them. we just dont consider them for NT. the moment we make these less athletic not so tall kids to ease out of their basketball dreams the more we see kids playing online games. its already happening. im not against whatever these games are, but id rather see 6'3 and below kids playing on the court dreaming to be better while being fit. rather than a 6'4 and above kid sitting around playing until 3am on their phone because they got shot done from playing basketball earlier on.
                          Sir The reality today is that we are now considered as the superpower of the online games, in fact some countries with deeper pockets are starting to lure those whiz kids of ours to shift nationality and offered more George Washington bills, more than what the Pretty Boy and Pacman are earning.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BJ_Reloaded View Post
                            Sir The reality today is that we are now considered as the superpower of the online games, in fact some countries with deeper pockets are starting to lure those whiz kids of ours to shift nationality and offered more George Washington bills, more than what the Pretty Boy and Pacman are earning.
                            like i said, i've nothing against that if that's what they want. what i don't want to see is kids going to that route because they got discouraged from playing other sports earlier on.
                            WE DON'T COUNT YEARS, WE COUNT CENTURIES

                            P. Noval, A.H. Lacson, Dapitan, Espanya
                            SANTO TOMAS APAT NA DAAN

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by IPC View Post
                              Yeah, I can agree with that. They can make a living in the other leagues like MPBL, VisMin Cup, etc., even the PBA.

                              But for the international scene, we need to really be a bit more selective.
                              yes. but prepping kids, we prep everyone equally and then just choose afterwards. doesn't matter how long the laundry list it. but only developing certain kids, discrimination naman yun due to height or innate athleticism. im with you in getting the most skillful with height, but if we can have a mindset to have a program to develop as much as we can, then we should be in that direction. the more advance program, sure, give it to select few. but somehow, grassroot dev should be inclusive.
                              WE DON'T COUNT YEARS, WE COUNT CENTURIES

                              P. Noval, A.H. Lacson, Dapitan, Espanya
                              SANTO TOMAS APAT NA DAAN

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by C2Hamm View Post
                                even if its funny to see 6'3 centers, thing is, not everyone is athletic enough or even good enough to move into a better position. and dont get me started with not having a coach who can guide them properly. so we will constantly see this. do we just tell these kids to stop playing? there are leagues who can take them in. let them. we just dont consider them for NT. the moment we make these less athletic not so tall kids to ease out of their basketball dreams the more we see kids playing online games. its already happening. im not against whatever these games are, but id rather see 6'3 and below kids playing on the court dreaming to be better while being fit. rather than a 6'4 and above kid sitting around playing until 3am on their phone because they got shot done from playing basketball earlier on.
                                I'd rather see these kids not gifted with height to play a different sport. Play football, volleyball, martial arts, etc instead. Put these kids in a situation where they can actually excel as adults. Cross-training (playing different sports) as children also pays off in the long run. What we need is to encourage a multi-sport youth culture. And when I say youth, youth as in younger than 10 years old.

                                For majority of the world (except China and India) kids play football/soccer very early. This is the case even in the US. I think because of this, kids develop skills in running, stop-and-go speed, laterals, stamina, etc. Notice how China's weakness is also in these categories. Other sports also add to different countries advantages. American football and rugby develop the right type of physicality, volleyball for hops, baseball for reflexes. Every sport offers something.

                                And when a kid gets lucky and grows tall after playing multi-sports early...that is how you come up with 6'6"+ guys who move well.
                                Last edited by Metta; 02-24-2023, 06:56 PM.

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