Future Big Men Of Philippine Basketball

[ja.he]

What I got from your statement is that Pinoys bigs should have perimeter game. Which I agree, thats why I asked who are those Centers who have no perimeter shot. A lot of IBNers are saying we need coaches to make 4 and 5 to be perimeter players. Which I always reply that most are already and most schools encourage that skill in our bigs since this decade. Why are we still asking coaches something they already are doing

Well, I don't know. I have to agree with you that, nowadays, bigmen are encourage to shoot from the perimeter - thanks to the arrival of FSA's.

For me, what our local bigmen should learn are: (1) handles (atleast Justin Baltazar, Carl Tamayo or RDO-level); and (2) perimeter/pick-and-roll defense.

[interxavierxxx]

Well, I don't know. I have to agree with you that, nowadays, bigmen are encourage to shoot from the perimeter - thanks to the arrival of FSA's.

For me, what our local bigmen should learn are: (1) handles (atleast Justin Baltazar, Carl Tamayo or RDO-level); and (2) perimeter/pick-and-roll defense.

We're producing more kids who are 6'7-6'8 each generation, so the logical route is to keep FSA's and teach the 6'7-6'8 local pinoys the 3-4 positions with the skills you mentioned.

It's very doable and we may have glanced what our future NT composition will look like in the future if you look at Tab's ACQ/OQ team.

PG - 5'11-6'2
SG - 6'3-6'5
SF - 6'5-6'7
PF - 6'7+
C - 6'10+ (naturalized)

Future is really bright.

[IPC]

What I got from your statement is that Pinoys bigs should have perimeter game. Which I agree, thats why I asked who are those Centers who have no perimeter shot. A lot of IBNers are saying we need coaches to make 4 and 5 to be perimeter players. Which I always reply that most are already and most schools encourage that skill in our bigs since this decade. Why are we still asking coaches something they already are doing

Well, I don't know. I have to agree with you that, nowadays, bigmen are encourage to shoot from the perimeter - thanks to the arrival of FSA's.

For me, what our local bigmen should learn are: (1) handles (atleast Justin Baltazar, Carl Tamayo or RDO-level); and (2) perimeter/pick-and-roll defense.

This perimeter game is so complicated. It can be a jumper, it can come with a handle. A jumper doesn't exactly necessarily mean that you're already a perimeter player. There are a lot of factors. I mean, the bigs that I consider perimeter players are what, Tamayo and Baltazar.

zairex is correct though, we're producing some more perimeter-oriented bigs, the ones with the skillset of a wing or are developing one. Tamayo and Baltazar. Then you have Kobe Demisana, Ramon Salvoro, Adrian Sollano.

Para sa akin lang, a, the 6'6"-6'8" bigs being able to play the 4 is enough, whether as a perimeter-oriented big or as a traditional 4. Just being able to keep in step with the likes of Ian Sangalang, Mo Tautuaa is enough. Heck, like I said, even Isaac Go plays 4 alongside Kouame and Kai on both ends. You can play big even as a 4, and there are a lot of big fours in Asia, whether stretch 4 or low-post 4, like Kazakhstan and the MENA countries.

Problema lang, our local 6'6"-6'8" bigs are backup centers in college instead of being developed as PFs. I don't see many bigs those size playing PF in college. The ones I saw have been Baltazar, Go, Ambohot, and probably Chiu. If you don't train the bigs to be PFs, magiging backups talaga sila, and thus not many opportunities. Coaches din, they have to be willing to put our local bigs at the 4 spot. Traditionally, 4 and 5 are similar.

[thatweirdguy]

This perimeter game is so complicated. It can be a jumper, it can come with a handle. A jumper doesn't exactly necessarily mean that you're already a perimeter player. There are a lot of factors. I mean, the bigs that I consider perimeter players are what, Tamayo and Baltazar.

zairex is correct though, we're producing some more perimeter-oriented bigs, the ones with the skillset of a wing or are developing one. Tamayo and Baltazar. Then you have Kobe Demisana, Ramon Salvoro, Adrian Sollano.

Para sa akin lang, a, the 6'6"-6'8" bigs being able to play the 4 is enough, whether as a perimeter-oriented big or as a traditional 4. Just being able to keep in step with the likes of Ian Sangalang, Mo Tautuaa is enough. Heck, like I said, even Isaac Go plays 4 alongside Kouame and Kai on both ends. You can play big even as a 4, and there are a lot of big fours in Asia, whether stretch 4 or low-post 4, like Kazakhstan and the MENA countries.

Problema lang, our local 6'6"-6'8" bigs are backup centers in college instead of being developed as PFs. I don't see many bigs those size playing PF in college. The ones I saw have been Baltazar, Go, Ambohot, and probably Chiu. If you don't train the bigs to be PFs, magiging backups talaga sila, and thus not many opportunities. Coaches din, they have to be willing to put our local bigs at the 4 spot. Traditionally, 4 and 5 are similar.

Probably because there's no one to backup the FSA? Most of 6'6 and above bigs who are not complete stiffs are recruited by the same schools. Some schools in the NCAA only have FSAs as legit bigmen. There is a wide talent gap between NCAA and UAAP schools. With no FSAs to play center. i wonder how some teams are going to keep up with the richer schools

[ja.he]

Probably because there's no one to backup the FSA? Most of 6'6 and above bigs who are not complete stiffs are recruited by the same schools. Some schools in the NCAA only have FSAs as legit bigmen. There is a wide talent gap between NCAA and UAAP schools. With no FSAs to play center. i wonder how some teams are going to keep up with the richer schools

The gap will be even wider starting next year when NCAA starts the FSA ban. The gap between San Beda and Letran and the rest of the NCAA will be wider without the FSA. Both Beda and Letran already hoard the talents and the bigmen in the collegiate ranks. DLSU, UP and Ateneo also hoard talents and bigmen but UAAP still has FSA's to lessen the talent gap.

[IPC]

Probably because there's no one to backup the FSA? Most of 6'6 and above bigs who are not complete stiffs are recruited by the same schools. Some schools in the NCAA only have FSAs as legit bigmen. There is a wide talent gap between NCAA and UAAP schools. With no FSAs to play center. i wonder how some teams are going to keep up with the richer schools

The gap will be even wider starting next year when NCAA starts the FSA ban. The gap between San Beda and Letran and the rest of the NCAA will be wider without the FSA. Both Beda and Letran already hoard the talents and the bigmen in the collegiate ranks. DLSU, UP and Ateneo also hoard talents and bigmen but UAAP still has FSA's to lessen the talent gap.

As to the backup problem, coaches could get creative with rotations in that they could play the local 6'6"+ bigs at 4 alongside the FSA or another local big, even if it's just for 3-5 minute stretches. What matters is that our bigs get used to playing the position and not get stuck at the 5 all the time. Problema lang is depth, and in the NCAA, as thatweirdguy said, the import ban will exacerbate that problem.

La Salle and Ateneo played Baltazar and Go respectively at 4 sometimes when they had an FSA. I think that La Salle could use Quiambao and Cortez at the 4, and Ateneo would do the same for Ong and Chiu. I also think UP could employ a similar system under Monteverde, given their depth at the big positions. They have Lina, Tamayo, and Diouf as their big rotation, and the former two could play 4.

The implications of having an FSA or banning them could have great rammifications, depending on the college team, especially on how they develop their bigs. Man, that sucks.

[ja.he]

As to the backup problem, coaches could get creative with rotations in that they could play the local 6'6"+ bigs at 4 alongside the FSA or another local big, even if it's just for 3-5 minute stretches. What matters is that our bigs get used to playing the position and not get stuck at the 5 all the time. Problema lang is depth, and in the NCAA, as thatweirdguy said, the import ban will exacerbate that problem.

La Salle and Ateneo played Baltazar and Go respectively at 4 sometimes when they had an FSA. I think that La Salle could use Quiambao and Cortez at the 4, and Ateneo would do the same for Ong and Chiu. I also think UP could employ a similar system under Monteverde, given their depth at the big positions. They have Lina, Tamayo, and Diouf as their big rotation, and the former two could play 4.

The implications of having an FSA or banning them could have great rammifications, depending on the college team, especially on how they develop their bigs. Man, that sucks.

Ganito lang yan: Ateneo > La Salle >> UP >>> the rest in UAAP = San Beda > Letran >>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of NCAA

[IPC]

Now that we have Kai Sotto, it boosted the imagination of every Pinoy dreamer, thinking that our prayers are answered. As Sotto labors in the Australian NBL, angling to get drafted in the NBA, we realize that height was not always the answer. There will be shorter players drafted ahead of Kai, and success in the international stage is not about height. Even US teams got shorter.

Height matters, but it's not the top key to success in international tournaments or even the pros. We overrated height because we did not have it, and we expected Kai to go all the way, simply because he was 7'2.

Sotto's biggest asset is his recognition that being 7'2 is not enough, that's why the kid is working so hard. That is probably what matters more.

Source: https://www.manilatimes.net/2021/09/...rrated/1816175

The article is about modern bigs. A nice excerpt from this is that "skill matters, not just height," which is the thesis of the article. However, how many of our local 6'6"-6'8" bigs have the skill level of Tamayo, Baltazar, or Mo Tautuaa, or hell, even Christian Standhardinger? That's the skill level, or let's say, skillset, required if we want to have modern bigs. Not just a perimeter shot. A perimeter skillset. Able to pass and handle as well. At least kids are coming along like Mason Amos, Kobe Demisana, Ramon Salvoro, and Kyle Ong.

[IPC]

The article is about modern bigs. A nice excerpt from this is that "skill matters, not just height," which is the thesis of the article. However, how many of our local 6'6"-6'8" bigs have the skill level of Tamayo, Baltazar, or Mo Tautuaa, or hell, even Christian Standhardinger? That's the skill level, or let's say, skillset, required if we want to have modern bigs. Not just a perimeter shot. A perimeter skillset. Able to pass and handle as well. At least kids are coming along like Mason Amos, Kobe Demisana, Ramon Salvoro, and Kyle Ong.

Pero with this said, I think skill also extends to low-post repertoire, it's not limited to skills required to be modern bigs. The low-post repertoire that Sangalang and June Mar has. Heck, even some modern bigs like Tamayo, Baltazar, Mo, and Beau Belga and JR Quiñahan (two more 'modern bigs') have it. Like I'd said, OK lang for a 6'7"-6'8" big to have a post skillset and to be trained as a traditional big, so long as they can play the 4 spot, like Sangalang, Mo, Beau, Quiñahan, and JP Erram can.

[IPC]

One guy also i think can convert into wing.. Justin Arana of Arellano should be also in Gilas cadets in near future.. That guy has some quickness, also have dribbling and have potential... He should be there in future Gilas line up...

You guys think it's still possible for Justin Arana to be converted to a wing? Does he possess the quickness and athleticism of Justine Baltazar?

Arana's 22 or 23, a. Baltazar transitioned to wing at 23-24. Is a conversion still possible?

Been looking into Arana again, and so far, he's developed a low-post repertoire in Filbasket. He's still kept his his ability to attack off the dribble, though.

[thatweirdguy]

Ganito lang yan: Ateneo > La Salle >> UP >>> the rest in UAAP = San Beda > Letran >>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of NCAA

Pre covid it was Ateneo>San Beda= Letran with Superfriends>UST with Ayo>>UP>La Salle>>>every other team in the UAAP >>>>>>>>the rest of the NCAA IMO. But yeah it's tough to gauge everyone's strength now because of covid and the 2 year layoff

[IPC]

Ganito lang yan: Ateneo > La Salle >> UP >>> the rest in UAAP = San Beda > Letran >>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of NCAA

Pre covid it was Ateneo>San Beda= Letran with Superfriends>UST with Ayo>>UP>La Salle>>>every other team in the UAAP >>>>>>>>the rest of the NCAA IMO. But yeah it's tough to gauge everyone's strength now because of covid and the 2 year layoff

These teams are ironically among the deeper teams in terms of bigman depth, and that's not accounting for the FSA.

La Salle: Bates, Baltazar, Quiambao, Phillips brothers, Cortez, Turco
Letran: Javillonar, Ular, Fajarito, Ambohot, Guarino, then Lantaya, Pangalangan.
UP: Gob (probably), Tamayo, Lina, probably Demisana
Ateneo: Chiu, Ong, Maagdenberg brothers
Beda: Jopia, Andrada, probably Brix Versoza

These teams probably have majority of the local bigs in the UAAP and NCAA ranks combined. Lot of the bigs are with La Salle and Letran, though, and their availability might be in question, except for that of Baltazar. We could use Quiambao, Lantaya, and Cortez for Gilas to add to our bigman depth.

[interxavierxxx]

These teams are ironically among the deeper teams in terms of bigman depth, and that's not accounting for the FSA.

La Salle: Bates, Baltazar, Quiambao, Phillips brothers, Cortez, Turco
Letran: Javillonar, Ular, Fajarito, Ambohot, Guarino, then Lantaya, Pangalangan.
UP: Gob (probably), Tamayo, Lina, probably Demisana
Ateneo: Chiu, Ong, Maagdenberg brothers
Beda: Jopia, Andrada, probably Brix Versoza

These teams probably have majority of the local bigs in the UAAP and NCAA ranks combined. Lot of the bigs are with La Salle and Letran, though, and their availability might be in question, except for that of Baltazar. We could use Quiambao, Lantaya, and Cortez for Gilas to add to our bigman depth.

From that list, I only see Chiu as the one who has legit size and heft to be a 5. The rest of those are all 3-4 IMO.

Really wish Austria didn't fuck up Junemar's development by making him a dominant big. Guy could have been a stretch 5.

[thatweirdguy]

From that list, I only see Chiu as the one who has legit size and heft to be a 5. The rest of those are all 3-4 IMO.

Really wish Austria didn't fuck up Junemar's development by making him a dominant big. Guy could have been a stretch 5.

Pangalangan says he's now 7 feet tall. But probably closer to 6'8 or 6'9

[IPC]

From that list, I only see Chiu as the one who has legit size and heft to be a 5. The rest of those are all 3-4 IMO.

Really wish Austria didn't fuck up Junemar's development by making him a dominant big. Guy could have been a stretch 5.

June Mar was also agile when he first came in. He also had good moves in the post. But, yeah, he could have been a traditional big who also has a 3-point shot. Medyo OK na ang touch niya, e. Could have made him a more appealing option to Chot as well, knowing that he didn't go to June Mar in the post that often.

Kaso nga lang, he did like to eat a lot of rice. Even with that, though, I feel the conditioning staff could have done something to minimize the impact of the rice consumption on his weight.