Future Big Men Of Philippine Basketball

[IPC]

Guys, do our collegiate & high school big men in the local scene still being taught of low post skills or back-to-the-basket moves? If so, how extensive (or maybe the lack of it) are they taught & train aspects like footwork, pivot & spin moves?

I feel low post or back-to-the-basket moves have become a dying skill among our big men. I remember during the 90's we had the likes of Patrimonio (for me the most skilled low post player in the PBA of all time), Benjie Paras, Jun Limpot, Bong Hawkins, Dennis Espino, Marlou Aquino, as among the PBA's most skilled post up players. Grabe ang footwork & pivot skills ng mga players na yun.

For now, parang kunting kunti na lang ang mga bigs sa PBA who have pretty decent low post moves. Parang sina Junmar at Greg Slaughter nalang ang talagang may desenting post up game.

The game today may have become so different from what it was during the 90's but I think malaking bagay pa rin ang low post game in today's game. I know the game today has become a run & gun type of game with more emphasis on 3-pt shooting but the problem is, yung 3-pt shooting or outside shooting are the most inconsistent offense in the game. Hindi mo pweding asahan lagi ang outside shooting kasi may prone to off nights ang mga shooters. On the other hand, mas consistent talaga ang inside or low post game.

I'm with you in that the post is still a crucial part of the game. The bigs can create their own shot down low, and it provides another angle of attack, whether it's for a shot or for a playmaking opportunity. I made it a staple of my game in 2K when I played with the Bulls. I use Nikola Vučević and Thad Young to post-up, especially on mismatches. Easy 2.

As for post game of young bigs, well, I know Baltazar and Tamayo. In the NCAA, Larry Muyang had some pretty good footwork. In the PBA, I think Mo Tautuaa has a better post game than Greg.

I think the issue is that our bigs are being given neither the opportunity nor the ball. Their role is just screen for their perimeter-oriented teammates and rebound their misses. Plus, as I repeatedly say, they're playing behind the import (especially the 6'6"-6'8" guys), when most of the tall locals should be playing alongside those guys to give them the opportunity they need.

I can say this, we're better at developing low-post bigs than Japan and SoKor.

[IPC]

Highlight of Matthew's 9 points plus a block

Let's hope he continues to improve. I'm already seeing his capabilities to be a reliable stretch-4/5 who can come off the bench and relieve Ange.

Hopefully we can add him to our pool of Gilas bigs. We have a deep pool, yes, but we can never have too many.

I hope also that he can play 4.

[bluenote49]

Did francis arrived or still stuck in our beautiful godforsaken country? On another note it's nice to know that he's an english speaking kid, hoping he'll never feel left out or doesn't fit in the group.

[JAMSKIE]

I'm with you in that the post is still a crucial part of the game. The bigs can create their own shot down low, and it provides another angle of attack, whether it's for a shot or for a playmaking opportunity. I made it a staple of my game in 2K when I played with the Bulls. I use Nikola Vučević and Thad Young to post-up, especially on mismatches. Easy 2.

As for post game of young bigs, well, I know Baltazar and Tamayo. In the NCAA, Larry Muyang had some pretty good footwork. In the PBA, I think Mo Tautuaa has a better post game than Greg.

I think the issue is that our bigs are being given neither the opportunity nor the ball. Their role is just screen for their perimeter-oriented teammates and rebound their misses. Plus, as I repeatedly say, they're playing behind the import (especially the 6'6"-6'8" guys), when most of the tall locals should be playing alongside those guys to give them the opportunity they need.

I can say this, we're better at developing low-post bigs than Japan and SoKor.

By the way I forgot to mention Ian Sangalang as among the local bigs with pretty decent post up game.

[JAMSKIE]

Did francis arrived or still stuck in our beautiful godforsaken country? On another note it's nice to know that he's an english speaking kid, hoping he'll never feel left out or doesn't fit in the group.

I just hope his father won't mess things up there in the US. Baka kasi if Francis Lopez won't be getting the desired playing time eh, kung ano ano na naman ang sasabihin ng tatay. The stage father must shut up at wag makialam sa tinatakbo ng team. He will just destroy his son's basketball career if he doesn't mend his ways.

[IPC]

By the way I forgot to mention Ian Sangalang as among the local bigs with pretty decent post up game.

Too bad he's not a good defender. TNT attacked him off the PnR during the last Finals series. Plus, he couldn't exactly perform for Gilas.

His post skillset is a must-have for high-scoring bigs, though. It's just about getting the opportunity and the ball. In the PBA, Sangalang gets plenty of touches, even with imports as teammates.

[mathematicianrcg]

https://www.spin.ph/basketball/lebron-lopez-benched-as-team-ote-handily-opens-season-a2437-20211030?utm_source=Facebook-Spin&utm_medium=Ownshare&utm_campaign=20211030-fbnp-basketball-lebron-lopez-benched-as-team-ote-handily-opens-season-a2437-20211030-fbfirst

Lopez is in the US now. He just sat out the first game. Because ofc, he just arrived.

PS: Why are we putting Lopez in Big Men thread. He should be a Wing. Actually, he will be SG in OTE, so he can develop to be a swing. Good luck to lopez

[mathematicianrcg]

I'm with you in that the post is still a crucial part of the game. The bigs can create their own shot down low, and it provides another angle of attack, whether it's for a shot or for a playmaking opportunity. I made it a staple of my game in 2K when I played with the Bulls. I use Nikola Vučević and Thad Young to post-up, especially on mismatches. Easy 2.

As for post game of young bigs, well, I know Baltazar and Tamayo. In the NCAA, Larry Muyang had some pretty good footwork. In the PBA, I think Mo Tautuaa has a better post game than Greg.

I think the issue is that our bigs are being given neither the opportunity nor the ball. Their role is just screen for their perimeter-oriented teammates and rebound their misses. Plus, as I repeatedly say, they're playing behind the import (especially the 6'6"-6'8" guys), when most of the tall locals should be playing alongside those guys to give them the opportunity they need.

I can say this, we're better at developing low-post bigs than Japan and SoKor.

Because of the rise of modern basketball, Post Up Players can only be given enough touches if they are very good to exceptional post players. Ex. JMF.

Junmar played alongside 6'6-6'10 Imports. Millsap, Balkman, Cmac. Because JMF is an exceptional Post up player (pba wise)

As for college bigs, If they are 6'4-6'5, I prefer them to have a playstyle like Kobe Paras or Oftana. Unless they are also EXCEPTIONAL like Ping and Ali Peek (who are effective post players despite their height)

As for 6'9 and above Bigs in College. I am with Jamskie. It is a welcome sight that they are having modern skills. But they should not forget how to use their size at the post

[interxavierxxx]

Because of the rise of modern basketball, Post Up Players can only be given enough touches if they are very good to exceptional post players. Ex. JMF.

Junmar played alongside 6'6-6'10 Imports. Millsap, Balkman, Cmac. Because JMF is an exceptional Post up player (pba wise)

As for college bigs, If they are 6'4-6'5, I prefer them to have a playstyle like Kobe Paras or Oftana. Unless they are also EXCEPTIONAL like Ping and Ali Peek (who are effective post players despite their height)

As for 6'9 and above Bigs in College. I am with Jamskie. It is a welcome sight that they are having modern skills. But they should not forget how to use their size at the post

And to control the boards.

[JAMSKIE]

Too bad he's not a good defender. TNT attacked him off the PnR during the last Finals series. Plus, he couldn't exactly perform for Gilas.

His post skillset is a must-have for high-scoring bigs, though. It's just about getting the opportunity and the ball. In the PBA, Sangalang gets plenty of touches, even with imports as teammates.

Sangalang's willingness to play for the national team has been a question mark.

[IPC]

Sangalang's willingness to play for the national team has been a question mark.

Ayun lang, willingness.

However, a big with his skillset can be actually good for the FIBA game, especially against teams that don't have a low-post 4.

I hope we produce 6'7"-6'8" bigs with the skillset of at least Sangalang and Tautuaa. And preferably can play the 4 as well as the 5. Like I always say, if you're that size as a big, you'll have to be able to play 4 and 5 if you're gonna thrive internationally.

[thatweirdguy]

Ayun lang, willingness.

However, a big with his skillset can be actually good for the FIBA game, especially against teams that don't have a low-post 4.

I hope we produce 6'7"-6'8" bigs with the skillset of at least Sangalang and Tautuaa. And preferably can play the 4 as well as the 5. Like I always say, if you're that size as a big, you'll have to be able to play 4 and 5 if you're gonna thrive internationally.

The thing is he may only be good at SEA level.. he's only 6'5 something. But yeah having a decent post game is a must for forwards.

[JAMSKIE]

The thing is he may only be good at SEA level.. he's only 6'5 something. But yeah having a decent post game is a must for forwards.

I feel Sangalang would just be like a Danny Ildefonso when the latter played for team Philippines in the 2002 Asian Games. Sa PBA subrang galing si Ildefonso, 2-time PBA MVP & many time member of a champion team. But in Asian basketball, Ildefonso was just a very average player.

Yung skill-set kasi ni Sangalang parang pareho rin kay Ildefonso eh. The perfect skill set for a "four" in the FIBA setting is that of a Ranidel Deocampo. Things would be different though if Sangalang is around 6-foot-8.

[IPC]

I feel Sangalang would just be like a Danny Ildefonso when the latter played for team Philippines in the 2002 Asian Games. Sa PBA subrang galing si Ildefonso, 2-time PBA MVP & many time member of a champion team. But in Asian basketball, Ildefonso was just a very average player.

Yung skill-set kasi ni Sangalang parang pareho rin kay Ildefonso eh. The perfect skill set for a "four" in the FIBA setting is that of a Ranidel Deocampo. Things would be different though if Sangalang is around 6-foot-8.

RDO was actually the complete package offensively as a big, the closest would be Alvin Patrimonio (who actually was better). RDO can post, he can drive, and he can shoot. Good thing we have Tamayo to take over his role, probably be even better, especially considering that Tamayo's more of a combo forward than RDO was (no disrespect meant to one of the most offensively-versatile bigs in the Philippines).

The complete 4 for me would be a 6'7"-6'8" guy with RDO's or Patrimonio's offensive skillset and Ping's defensive versatility. Hopefully we get to see that guy soon. A 6'7"-6'8" version of Danny Ildefonso won't hurt as well.

We have 6'7"-6'8" guys, they're just not trained as fours, e. Well, we have Tamayo, Baltazar, Go, and hopefully Cariño and Matthew Aquino, probably Rangel. That number should ideally increase.

[IPC]

anyway, do we count Bam Adebayo (6'9) as a small ball center? He's a career 15.9% from the 3pt line. But in his defense he has a 7'1 wingspan

I always saw him as a power forward.

He struggled mightily against Gobert in the Olympics.

Props to him though. Still the US' top rebounder. McGee? Wait, he was in the lineup? lol I would have considered DeAndre just because FIBA allows you to tap the ball out once it hits the rim.

^^Also you mentioned Adebayo’s 3 point shooting %, Idk if I understand you right but a big need not be a stretch big for a team to operate on small ball principles. It is paramount the other big is, though or else the “space” part is compromised. Adebayo fills the “pace” part of the equation as he enjoys a significant speed advantage on most non small ball centers. He’s actually a match up problem despite not having a 3 ball as he is adept at playing the perimeter and is strong and big enough to bully most small ball centers.

Bam does have a decent midrange shot, so he can space the floor a bit, which augments his ability to play the perimeter.

He's also an awesome passer and can handle the ball a bit something Ayton and Gobert lacks

Hmm, what bigs do we have that can reasonably replicate Bam's skillset? A 6'7" version, not as athletic by a mile but can play both big positions, has good handles, passing, and a jumper, and an amazing defender who can switch out?

So far, I think the closest is Justine Baltazar. 6'7", can switch, has a good jumper, has played all three frontcourt positions, but could use work on handle and passing. Unfortunately, like Bam, he struggles against bigger post players.