Future Big Men Of Philippine Basketball

[IPC]

Yes, this is a very serious problem. By fiba nt plays, our guards are sub-standard even by asian elite level. This weakness has been masked because our puny guards perform well only in the asean league. I can only be convinced that they are good if the pinoy point guards --as a group -- outperform the top teams australia, china, south korea, and japan in their respective homeland or other hostile territory. The same group vs group performance analysis applies also to opponents sgs or wings (23s). It is okay to be guard-centric if your guards are as good as or better than top 5 nt teams. Similarly, a wings bias is okay if you can neutralize slovenia's forward corps with doncic in it.

Our advantage actually lies with our bigs, who are factually getting better, and cant really be "outbigged". Who actually believes sjs, rjs and other favorite tiny guards can outperform the nt guards of the usa, spain, argentina or even mere italy and DR?

As usual, the cheap answer of lowly pinoy fans is "subukan natin". Well, it is extremely expensive to repeatedly try pinoy tiny guards who repeatedly get crushed by opposing groups of bigger and more skilled foreign guards. This kind of meaningless testing works only because there is always a foolish pinoy financial donor willing to throw away money. We are talking about a half century of dismal failure of pinoy nt guard corps.

(We cant refer to caloy loyzaga and earlier successes because basketball rules were different then. During loyzaga's jurassic basketball, you can hold on to the ball until the planet dies. So you can lose by an elegant score of say 4-2.)

The solution lies in forcing the obvious corrections in actual teams. For instance, if guiao is forced by the team owners not to use guards smaller than say 6'3, guiao naturally will look for bigger 345s to whip into shape. If this is not possible say, because smc has cornered the best big 345s, guiao will obviously force his undersized forwards and centers to deliver bigger -- perhaps nba-level -- performance than the big guards can. Medyo matigas mga ulo ng pba coaches, at hindi masyadong sineseryoso ng team owners ang very skilled bigs requirement in all positions ng fiba nt wars, kaya naging sub-fiba ang player standards of performance nila.

Some will complain and say, but the DR or puerto rico guards are small. So how did puerto rico and DR fare against bigger teams? But argentina has small guards! Really, how many pinoy guards can beat argentinian or italian nt guards??? THEY CANT EVEN REGULARLY PLAY AGAINST THEM BECAUSE PINOY GUARDS CANT OUTWORK TOP 25 NT GUARDS, AND THUS MISERABLY FAIL DURING EARLY QUALIFICATION ROUNDS. Remember how even tiny 5'10 barea completely destroyed pba guards? And as expected, barea himself was crushed by bigger and more skilled guards too.

The 'subukan natin' should apply to the bigs this time. Feed them, see if they deliver. Malay natin, the Baltazars and Tamayos are not as uncommon as we think, both in size and skill.

[ccharmed]

The 'subukan natin' should apply to the bigs this time. Feed them, see if they deliver. Malay natin, the Baltazars and Tamayos are not as uncommon as we think, both in size and skill.

Yes, this is also a vital solution. Bumabano ang biggies kasi iyong guards lang may instruction na tumakbo na parang snatchers.

May mga ugok na coach pa akong nakikita na galit kung forwards at centers ang mabilis magbaba ng bola. Parang tingin ng bobong coaches ay inaalis mo hanapbuhay ng mga bansot na guards kung 6'5 and taller ibang players ay mabilis pa sa bansot na guards. Nakita ninyo bang mag dribol at mag drive ang batang 7footer na si sage tolentino??? (Sori, may bias ako at kasama sa pangalan ko iyan.)

[IPC]

Yes, this is also a vital solution. Bumabano ang biggies kasi iyong guards lang may instruction na tumakbo na parang snatchers.

May mga ugok na coach pa akong nakikita na galit kung forwards at centers ang mabilis magbaba ng bola. Parang tingin ng bobong coaches ay inaalis mo hanapbuhay ng mga bansot na guards kung 6'5 and taller ibang players ay mabilis pa sa bansot na guards. Nakita ninyo bang mag dribol at mag drive ang batang 7footer na si sage tolentino??? (Sori, may bias ako at kasama sa pangalan ko iyan.)

"Bumabano ang biggies." That's a way to describe it. But yeah, offenses which are too guard-centric make our bigs more irrelevant.

I found a comment in FB in this wise:

"Sa PBA bawal mag dribble ng matagal at mag shoot sa labas si Balthazar magagalit ang coach Dapat sa loob Lang naghihintay ng pass at mag rebound Lang."

The "Dapat sa loob Lang naghihintay ng pass at mag rebound Lang" right about sums up how our bigs are trained. Just stay in the paint on both ends, make the occasional pick and roll/pop shot (if the ball even gets to you), and rebound.

And I repeatedly say that our tallest players should be trained to play at least the PF position. Aside from increasing their playability alongside foreigners (which tend to be taller than them), it also gives them a wider opportunity to expand their skillset.

[Dotch]

"Wala sa tangkad yan, nasa laki ng puso" - is the common mantra of Pinoy coaches

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!" para hindi baduy or cringe. Coaches over-romanticize these "PUSO" thing as if it's the only way we can win. But seriously, these coaches also under estimate the will to win of their opponents. Thinking they dont have same level of passion and commitment to win. As if they can "out-heart" their bigger, taller opponents.

[IPC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GztelBd06Dk

Victor is a better prospect than Chet. Especially seeing he's only 17 years old and doing stuffs like this already.

I see Victor playing more like a bigman than a Forward Chet is trying to become like. I don't see the comparison to KP or "Tingus Pingus".

Watched Victor's highlights too. He has the handle, passing, and shooting. Looks like he can position himself well on defense. This guy also has a good motor. Looks like he can be a PF, no kidding.

We should take a page on how Victor was developed. You can play like a big and have guard skills at the same time. The skills that he has are teachable. The passing, handling, shooting, and defensive positioning. Plus, he's being given the ball, whether on lobs or PnR/PnP opportunities, or in the high or low post.

It's amazing how countries with taller bigs are ahead of us in terms of bigman development. We should actually be the first, given how undersized we are in general. This is why Baltazar and Tamayo are a breath of fresh air. Even Kai and Kouame displayed a better all-around skillset.

[IPC]

The way Coach Tab developed a 25 yrs old 6'7 FC Baltazar into a Wing player is impressive.

Imagine of Balti played as a wing in his youth.

But it is not feasible because of lack of bigs in his prev teams

And I was already content with seeing him thrive at the 4 spot. Man, that development to combo forward was amazing. But, along with good development coaching, he had the proper environment to develop as a more perimeter-oriented forward.

Hopefully, more tall players can develop the way Baltazar did, as combo forwards. He should be the goal in terms of size, skill, and position (which is the PF at least) if we want to produce more bigs fit for international ball. Just give them the right environment and coaching, and give them the ball too. Part of the reason a lot of bigs can't develop a good skillset (mapa-perimeter man or post) apart from screening, protecting the paint, and rebounding is because guards dominate the offense too much.

Our bigs will be our advantage in FIBA ball, especially in Asia. I hope we can produce as many of them as possible (mostly at 4), and groom as many as possible for international play.

[JAMSKIE]

Just to add, I think we should involve our bigs more, you know, pass to them in PnR situations, especially when that PnR forces a mismatch in the post.

Again, this is a problem when our offenses are too guard-centric.

I'm confident that as Kai & Kouame gets better & better, the team will be less dependent on the guards & wings, and would get the bigs more involve in offense.

Moving forward, as our guards & wings get more accustomed to playing with Kai, I expect more lop passes, entry passes at low post & alley-oop plays for Kai

[IPC]

Can a team with its tallest player at 6'7" beat a team with a dominant 6'10" player by playing its bigs outside?
If you're the coach, wouldn't you put your tallest player to put a body against the opposing team's big inside in offense and defense?

This modern big thing is a fad. Once shaq-like players play again in the NBA...

That's why we need to develop our 6'6"-6'8" players as power forwards, not centers. They'll be overmatched at center, especially against 6'10"-above foreigners.

But if they're the tallest in your team, who will play center? you all make it sound like our coaches do not want to train our bigs (6'6-6'8) to be versatile when in fact, it is by necessity that they play inside because they have to guard the aquinos, taulavas and fajardos. Who is more effective to guard Fajardo, the bulky Adducul or the mobile Camaso?

In the Philippines setting, no amount of shorter modern bigs will beat san miguel with a dominant center. The same in the NBA, no teams with modern bigs will beat a team with a prime Shaq

Well, if we train our bigs right, and they turn out great, they might not have to face June Mar at all. Overseas opportunities, like for example, Baltazar.

And besides, the likes of June Mar are a rare sight in the Philippines. Once he retires (and maybe Standhardinger, Greg Slaughter, and Mo Tautuaa along with him), who knows, maybe that's the room we need to make our tallest players play like power forwards.

[IPC]

I'm confident that as Kai & Kouame gets better & better, the team will be less dependent on the guards & wings, and would get the bigs more involve in offense.

Moving forward, as our guards & wings get more accustomed to playing with Kai, I expect more lop passes, entry passes at low post & alley-oop plays for Kai

As we get more and more bigs, and as they grow taller, our guards should learn how to feed them the ball. Transition the offense to at least give the bigs an opportunity, like La Salle does for Baltazar.

[Rds]

Well, if we train our bigs right, and they turn out great, they might not have to face June Mar at all. Overseas opportunities, like for example, Baltazar.

And besides, the likes of June Mar are a rare sight in the Philippines. Once he retires (and maybe Standhardinger, Greg Slaughter, and Mo Tautuaa along with him), who knows, maybe that's the room we need to make our tallest players play like power forwards.

SMB's dominance is partly because the calls favor them. Think about it, how can a 280 lbs June Mar defend the perimeter in endgame after playing close to 40 minutes and getting 20-20? Because he is allowed to extend his hand and impede the driving guard. This is not allowed in Fiba nor in the NBA. It is the primary reason June Mar is a defensive liability internationally because he can't do it there. The PBA games are called as such June Mar does not have to move his feet quickly on defense. A light 250 lbs June Mar is not dominant enough inside for Leo Austria to win. Austria needs a 280 lbs June Mar to clog the middle for 40 minutes in order for SMB to win. He doesn't know any other way. SMB owning most of the PBA teams can push the calls such that June Mar is coddled in defense. No wonder he gets exposed internationally.

Funny thing is if June Mar was lighter, like in his rookie year, he wouldn't have to be coddled defensively. However, that is the only way Austria knows how to win and SMB has to win the AFC every year. No matter if its dominance is tainted by calls favoring them and by no creativity or skill whatsoever in coaching.

[IPC]

SMB's dominance is partly because the calls favor them. Think about it, how can a 280 lbs June Mar defend the perimeter in endgame after playing close to 40 minutes and getting 20-20? Because he is allowed to extend his hand and impede the driving guard. This is not allowed in Fiba nor in the NBA. It is the primary reason June Mar is a defensive liability internationally because he can't do it there. The PBA games are called as such June Mar does not have to move his feet quickly on defense. A light 250 lbs June Mar is not dominant enough inside for Leo Austria to win. Austria needs a 280 lbs June Mar to clog the middle for 40 minutes in order for SMB to win. He doesn't know any other way. SMB owning most of the PBA teams can push the calls such that June Mar is coddled in defense. No wonder he gets exposed internationally.

Funny thing is if June Mar was lighter, like in his rookie year, he wouldn't have to be coddled defensively. However, that is the only way Austria knows how to win and SMB has to win the AFC every year. No matter if its dominance is tainted by calls favoring them and by no creativity or skill whatsoever in coaching.

It's like the Shaq dilemma. He couldn't be as much of a force inside when he was 325 lbs, but he was light on his feet and was a hell of an athlete. When he grew to 370, he was so dominant, but he sacrificed both his health and his quickness in the process.

Only difference is, Shaq decided himself. SMB decided for June Mar. He was a victim of the system. Sayang. He could have developed his footwork and outside shot, and maybe even strength (of course without having to gain weight). Pick-and-pop threat, while also being a threat in the post. Plus, ayun na nga, he wouldn't have been as much of a defensive liability.

I only hope we don't train our bigs to become like June Mar in terms of weight and playing style, especially given that barely anyone has his height. If I were to train my bigs, even if he's the tallest in the team, if he's 6'7" or 6'8", I'd train him like RDO or Seigle on offense and Ping on defense. I'd only train him like Asi if he were 6'9" or above.

The common thing about the first 3 bigs I mentioned: All were PFs, which as a general rule, our bigs have to learn to play as well as center.

[reamily]

SMB is the product of Rajko Toroman blue print 1 big 4 small.. use that lineup to death if you can. Thats real transfer of technology imo

[IPC]

Rdo’s son needs to be train overseas.

Hopefully RDO can consider it. If the kid gains RDO's skillset, that might be enhanced overseas. Who knows, if he gets any taller, like 6'10" or 6'11", he might be a defensive presence in the paint.

[IPC]

So far, looks like we are producing bigger bigmen at the 4 and 5 positions. As this trend continues (hope it does continue), it's crucial we train some of the bigger bigs in both positions to score, especially those who have shown skill in the post. To do that, we need to amply involve them, make more plays for them. Give them entry passes in the post (especially when there's a mismatch), involve them in the PnR (where they also receive the ball from the handler).

Don't make the same mistakes the Bucks did (running their entire offense from the perimeter, be it Jrue, Giannis, or Middleton, and neglecting to feed Brook Lopez even as he had 6'6" Jae Crowder on him).

[JAMSKIE]

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just feel "panghihinayang" lang that some of the most promising young big men in amateur basketball like Lantaya, Lepalam, Umpad, Quiambao, Raven Cortez have been idle for about a year & a half already & it doesn't look like their idleness is going to end soon as college basketball in the country is still on uncertain times. If only these players can join the current Gilas cadet program but as we all know most of these players are handled by groups not friendly with SBP. That's politics in Phi basketball as its worst. I hate to say this but these players idleness stalls their development & progress. Imagine the lost time & opportunity to improve & develop. While if only these players get to attend Gilas traning, one can be almost certain of their significant improvement.