FIBA ASIA Cup Qualifiers

[JAMSKIE]

[QUOTE=Artek;n2469424]

The fact that you cannot even give a concrete description of what a "Filipino bloodline" is shows how confused are you on what makes a Filipino. You don't even know how to describe what makes someone a Filipino

All you have to do is read the citizenship laws.

After all, if the PH government does not recognize one as a PH citizen because they did not meet the requirements that will allow them to claim PH citizenship, any talk about "Filipino bloodline" is moot. You will not be recognized as a PH citizen, you will not be issued passport and in effect, you cannot represent the Philippines in tournaments. This is why semantics is very important. You can't just go to the DFA or consulate and apply for passport and say "I am Filipino because my grandmother was from the Philippines". You have to prove that your parent was still a PH citizen to be recognized as a Filipino

The simplest way to understand being Filipino is not through bloodline. But if they meet the criteria of what a Filipino is based on our citizenship laws.

If your mother or your father is a natural born Filipino & is still a Filipino citizen at the time of your birth then you are automatically a Filipino citizen. That's what I meant about bloodline or blood ties.

I never said that Filipino citizenship is about race, ethnicity. That's why I presented Chris Neewsome as an example as his mother is a Filipino citizen at the time of his birth.

[ja.he]

no one will.. even he admitted he has 10% Filo blood, they won’t dare tap his services

Our kababayans are starting to take it. I don't.

He just wants to take a piece of JC's Filipino fanbase. lols

[Artek]

[QUOTE=JAMSKIE;n2469430]

If your mother or your father is a natural born Filipino & is still a Filipino citizen at the time of your birth then you are automatically a Filipino citizen. That's what I meant about bloodline or blood ties.

That not bloodline. That is what DAdmiral is referring to as paperwork. For those born abroad, they have to do more paperwork by submitting their foreign BC to the PSA, submitting paperwork proving one of your parent was still a citizen when you were born, applying for recognition as dual or PH citizen.

I never said that Filipino citizenship is about race, ethnicity. That's why I presented Chris Neewsome as an example as his mother is a Filipino citizen at the time of his birth.

Why are you using the term "bloodline" when based on your previous paragraph, it definitely refers to paperwork to become recognized as a Filipino.

You are only confusing yourself.

[DAdmiral]

Whether U admit it or not bro, U have become so particular about semantics which only complicates things. When someone says "may dugong Pinoy yan", U would ask, what does dugong Pinoy means since Pinoys are a mix of Malay, Chinese, Spanish races. Eh 99.9% of people hearing such statement (May dugong Pinoy yan) would already know what that guy is implying. Even our own basketball sports casters/analysts like Andy Jao, Quinito Henson, Bill Velasco, Noli Eala, the late Ed Piczon (who are well educated people), would use the term "dugong Pinoy" & the televiewers/listeners would understand what they are talking about. Definitely, Andy Jao & company aren't that particular about semantics.

It's not mere semantics really , and all those comments by many people citing Dugong Pinoy actually when analysed simply refers to one has roots to a common ethnicity, it really is NO different to saying African Americans in the NBA have dugong African , which technically legally is NEVER the definition of what makes a person have rights to a citizenship of a country . This is not mere semantics but literally what determines if one has rights to citizenship or not . A full blooded Filipino from two full blooded Pinoy parents can possibly have no rights to Philippine citizenship if he does not have the corresponding supporting documentation.
While this may seem trivial and semantics to you , it is really what determines Nationality .

[Artek]

It's not mere semantics really , and all those comments by many people citing Dugong Pinoy actually when analysed simply refers to one has roots to a common ethnicity, it really is NO different to saying African Americans in the NBA have dugong African , which technically legally is NEVER the definition of what makes a person have rights to a citizenship of a country . This is not mere semantics but literally what determines if one has rights to citizenship or not . A full blooded Filipino from two full blooded Pinoy parents can possibly have no rights to Philippine citizenship if he does not have the corresponding supporting documentation.
While this may seem trivial and semantics to you , it is really what determines Nationality .

If Ange ends up marrying an Ivorian, would these same people consider Ange's offspring as "dugong Pinoy"? Because per our citizenship laws, they will be considered natural-born citizens even if they are "only" second generation of Filipinos of Ivorian origin.

[ja.he]

Being a Filipino is not a race. It's not even an ethnicity because Philippines is not limited to a single ethno-linguistic or ethno-religious group. It is a citizenship just like in the US or any countries in Anglosphere, Hispanosphere and EU.

That's why a foreign couple who became naturalized Filipinos at the time of their child's birth will make the latter (child) a natural-born Filipino. That child can actually run for office if he wants to.

[ja.he]

If Ange ends up marrying an Ivorian, would these same people consider Ange's offspring as "dugong Pinoy"? Because per our citizenship laws, they will be considered natural-born citizens even if they are "only" second generation of Filipinos of Ivorian origin.

He is a natural-born Filipino by virtue of Ange's citizenship.

[DAdmiral]

Being a Filipino is not a race. It's not even an ethnicity because Philippines is not limited to a single ethno-linguistic or ethno-religious group. It is a citizenship just like in the US or any countries in Anglosphere, Hispanosphere and EU.

That's why a foreign couple who became naturalized Filipinos at the time of their child's birth will make the latter (child) a natural-born Filipino. That child can actually run for office if he wants to.

And likewise a Full blooded child from 2 full blooded filipino parents who all don't have documentation citizenship to the Philippines is actually NOT a natural born Filipino. It's documents that determines one is of a national citizen or not

[Artek]

Being a Filipino is not a race. It's not even an ethnicity because Philippines is not limited to a single ethno-linguistic or ethno-religious group. It is a citizenship just like in the US or any countries in Anglosphere, Hispanosphere and EU.

That's why a foreign couple who became naturalized Filipinos at the time of their child's birth will make the latter (child) a natural-born Filipino. That child can actually run for office if he wants to.

Precisely. This is even how our government defines being Filipino.

So people should not be upset when someone who has one
parent or grandparent from the Philippines don't automatically have claims to PH citizenship or even does not qualify to be a PH citizen.


But some people here complain why this person isn't given a PH passport, but they have an ancestor from the Philippines.

It all boils down to the whether their parent is or was a PH citizen when they were born. It is possible to have parents who were born Filipinos but not be recognized as Filipino if their parents lost their PH citizenship before they were born.

[DAdmiral]

While some might think we're discussing un important things and semantics , it REALLY is NOT in the context of arguing an individual like Clarkson should really be able to play based on meron dugong Pinoy with no establish document to support his parents or grand parents were ever Philippine citizens . It matters alot . and it makes the efforts to get Clarkson exempted quite a joke , really.

[Artek]

He is a natural-born Filipino by virtue of Ange's citizenship.

But my question to Jamskie if he will consider Ange's offspring as "dugong Pinoy" because his offsprings will definitely be natural-born Filipinos.

[ja.he]

And likewise a Full blooded child from 2 full blooded filipino parents who all don't have documentation citizenship to the Philippines is actually NOT a natural born Filipino. It's documents that determines one is of a national citizen or not

That's right. The power of paperwork. That's why making DNA test as the determinant of citizenship is quite ridiculous.

It can determine parentage but not the citizenship.

[Athrunzala]

If a foreigner was both born and raised in the Philippines, isn't it FIBA automatically recognizes that person as a Filipino citizen?

[Artek]

While some might think we're discussing un important things and semantics , it REALLY is NOT in the context of arguing an individual like Clarkson should really be able to play based on meron dugong Pinoy with no establish document to support his parents or grand parents were ever Philippine citizens . It matters alot . and it makes the efforts to get Clarkson exempted quite a joke , really.

In some cases during the Fil-Sham controversy, some players who did not meet the criteria for claiming PH citizenship were given passports due to some maneuvering. If Eric Menk and Rudy Hatfield were "ordinary" Fil-Ams, the DFA will not issue them passport as they will not be recognized as PH citizens since their mothers lost their PH citizenship before their birth. But money talks in the Philippines. That's why we have Alice Guo who became "instant Filipinos"

[JAMSKIE]

Paperwork. Why do you think we have late registration and have lax rules when it comes to "hilot" assisting their mothers in giving birth. It is to make it easy for them to register. (Which some foreigners learned how to exploit)

Also, being indigenous is not about "bloodline" but it is defined by culture and ties to the land. Hispanized lowland Filipinos and "indigenous hill tribes" share the same genetics. The difference is largely cultural.



Again, refer to the late registration. Also, many indigenous people have paperwork. Just because one is part of the indigenous community does not mean they are detached from modern civilization. Many "non-indigenous" from the Hispanized areas of the Philippines do not have access to modern amenities. This isn't a phenomenon exclusive to the "indigenous people"

Note: I am of Igorot (Ibaloi) descent so I know a lot about being indigenous. I can talk about the NCIP, IPRA, issues on ancestral lands if you want. But that is digressing a lot.

Well, but there are those indigenous tribes here in the Philippines who have no documents that will prove that they are Filipino citizens.

I think they will be considered Filipino citizens becoz they belong to a tribe that is idenfied as having been existing here in the Philippines. It is assumed nalang that the parents of these people are Filipinos.