FIBA ASIA Cup Qualifiers

[DAdmiral]

In hindsight , Qatar importation of athletes to represent its country is actually consistent with the way they generally do things ( importing most of their workforce , labourers , management etc in all areas of their work society) now while limited , surely there is bond to be some offspring of their long term residents who can be potential prospects. (this counts as roots to the country , child of a long time resident , just like if Brownlee and Black have son's born and raised in the Philippines

Speaking of recognizing long time residents and before we overly criticize FIBA rules, note long time residents Alex Clampton and Norman Black if they were able to secure Phil passports would be FIBA eligible as locals over never residents and zero parental connection to a citizen Clarkson and other Fil ams, that certainly is logical and fair , ( so who's fault is it , that residents Campton and Koaume are not eligible , while mercenaries with really in document perspective have little connection to the Philippines eligible , is it FIB's fault ? nope.

[JAMSKIE]

Laughable and embarrassing is your own weird anti pinoy bias coming through. Again these guys would be eligible if FIFA not FIBA were making the rules. Its perfectly reasonable to dislike these rules and ask for change. Unless you think the biggest sports federation's rules are laughable and embarrassing.

The problem with DAdmiral/analyzed is that he doesn't value blood ties or descent (Or whatever we should call it. Damn, I'm not particular about semantics). He thinks that the case of Tyler Harris, who has no blood ties with Qatar (basta naglaro lang sa Qatar local pro league ng ilang taon), is just the same as the case of say a Chris Newsome (whose father is an American & his mother being a natural born Filipino therefore Chris Newsome has blood ties with Philippines). For as long as FIBA declares one player as eligible as a local player of a particular country, that's OK with DAdmiral.

The thing about DAdmiral is that he has a very liberated mindset that things like blood ties, race, athnicity, descent, ancestry hardly matters for him.

Perhaps he won't even mind that one day Qatar would be parading a team composed of Martians for as long as they obtained Qatari passports prior to their 16th birthday.

[Dotch]

In hindsight , Qatar importation of athletes to represent its country is actually consistent with the way they generally do things ( importing most of their workforce , labourers , management etc in all areas of their work society) now while limited , surely there is bond to be some offspring of their long term residents who can be potential prospects. (this counts as roots to the country , child of a long time resident , just like if Brownlee and Black have son's born and raised in the Philippines

Speaking of recognizing long time residents and before we overly criticize FIBA rules, note long time residents Alex Clampton and Norman Black if they were able to secure Phil passports would be FIBA eligible as locals over never residents and zero parental connection to a citizen Clarkson and other Fil ams, that certainly is logical and fair , ( so who's fault is it , that residents Campton and Koaume are not eligible , while mercenaries with really in document perspective have little connection to the Philippines eligible , is it FIB's fault ? nope.

Mehhh, ...The great Manchester United legend Eric Cantona once said "Qatar is not a country of football. It's about money and the way they treated the people who built the stadiums, horrible." Which sums everything up. They buy everything with money, and display this public facade that theirs is a great sporting nation, filled with sports heroes. But in reality, their sports culture is manufactured and definitely inorganic.

[Artek]

The problem with DAdmiral/analyzed is that he doesn't value blood ties or descent (Or whatever we should call it. Damn, I'm not particular about semantics). He thinks that the case of Tyler Harris, who has no blood ties with Qatar (basta naglaro lang sa Qatar local pro league ng ilang taon), is just the same as the case of say a Chris Newsome (whose father is an American & his mother being a natural born Filipino therefore Chris Newsome has blood ties with Philippines). For as long as FIBA declares one player as eligible as a local player of a particular country, that's OK with DAdmiral.

The thing about DAdmiral is that he has a very liberated mindset that things like blood ties, race, athnicity, descent, ancestry hardly matters for him.

Perhaps he won't even mind that one day Qatar would be parading a team composed of Martians for as long as they obtained Qatari passports prior to their 16th birthday.

How to we define "blood ties"? DNA/Genes
If that is the case, then we might as well consider Taiwanese Aboriginals, Chamorros, Malagasy people because they
share the same ancestral DNA as us. When they take 23andMe, they will come out as predominantly "Filipino and Austronesian" even if that connection was 4,000 years ago.

One has to remember that even by our constitution, being Filipino is not about "blood ties". It is really about the paper trail and if you have valid claims to PH citizenship if you can prove that at least one of your parent was a Filipino citizen upon your birth.

If for example one was already past the age of 18 when the dual nationality act was passed, and their parent lost their Philippine citizenship before they were born, the government will not recognize them as PH citizens. If the PH government does not recognize them as PH citizens due to not meeting the requirements to claim PH citizenship, "ancestral ties" is useless.

The PH nationality laws is NOT like that of Israel or Ireland where if you can prove you have "Irish DNA" or "Jewish DNA" , you can claim citizenship in those countries even if you are 20 generations removed from those places. The Philippines defines Filipino not as ancestry or ethnicity or bloodline but solely on legal grounds.

If we are going to overemphasize "ancestry", "blood ties", "descent" we might as well tell people like Geo Chiu or Isaac Go to represent the PRC because that is the country they have "blood ties" to. After all their grandparents/parents are migrants from China not more than 100 years ago.

If Gabe Norwood's mother (who is "half" Filipino. Norwood is "one fourth") did not give birth to him when she was a minor, Gabe will not be able to claim PH citizenship unless he gets a sponsor that will bribe someone in the PSA or DFA. Small legal technicalities matter a lot.

Justin Brownlee can pretty much get his children to be part of a future Gilas team (granting that he processes their derivative PH citizenship while they are minors) and be considered a local despite the lack of "blood ties". His children's ties to the Philippines is not from "blood" or "ancestry" but from the fact that Brownlee is legally (aka paperwork) a Filipino. JBLs grandchildren can pretty be much as natural-born Filipinos as Oftana or Carl Tamayo despite the lack of what people refer to as "Filipino" blood which is just Austronesian ancestry (which is shared in large part of the Pacific World).

The problem with Qatar is not the lack of "blood ties" but lack of any kind of non-transactional relations between their players and the country they are representing. Harris neither has a parent who lived in Qatar nor did he prior to becoming a mercenary for them. If Qatar fielded someone whose both parents hailed from the Philippines but grew up in Qatar, that is a significant non-blood ties to Qatar.

It is important to note the origin and history of the term Filipino. The birth of the national consciousness of being a Filipino did not originate from the people we think as having "Filipino ancestry" (Austronesian peoples) but from the local-born Europeans. The first known person to refer to himself as a Filipino in a nationalistic way was not an "indio" but someone of European descent - Luis Rodriquez Varela. He was even known as El Conde Filipino.

The movie Gomburza shows the concept of Filipinoness very well - particularly during the conversation of Pedro Pelaez and Jose Burgos - and both of them are of European descent.

[DAdmiral]

The problem with DAdmiral/analyzed is that he doesn't value blood ties or descent (Or whatever we should call it. Damn, I'm not particular about semantics). He thinks that the case of Tyler Harris, who has no blood ties with Qatar (basta naglaro lang sa Qatar local pro league ng ilang taon), is just the same as the case of say a Chris Newsome (whose father is an American & his mother being a natural born Filipino therefore Chris Newsome has blood ties with Philippines). For as long as FIBA declares one player as eligible as a local player of a particular country, that's OK with DAdmiral.

The thing about DAdmiral is that he has a very liberated mindset that things like blood ties, race, athnicity, descent, ancestry hardly matters for him.

Perhaps he won't even mind that one day Qatar would be parading a team composed of Martians for as long as they obtained Qatari passports prior to their 16th birthday.

You're missing the point and misinterpreting what I'm saying , I'm simply accurately distinguishing what blood connection really means, to be precisely accurate it is verification of holding a document that one is connected (e.g. parent) to a person ,who is either a current/former Citizen or resident of the country. What it is NOT is mere connection to a person to someone of similar ethnicity (Malyay etc) , this is not semantics at all. But literally the basis of almost all Nations on recognizing who is a citizen or not. it's still based on a document . and in that case regardless of the difference in document to support one's connection Harris indeed has more of documented verifiable connection to Qatar than Jordan Clarson has to the Philippines.

BTW Newsome has a connection to a Philippine parent who is a former citizen , Harris does NOT, no one is saying the basis of Harris connection is via his parents

[DAdmiral]

How to we define "blood ties"? DNA/Genes
If that is the case, then we might as well consider Taiwanese Aboriginals, Chamorros, Malagasy people because they
share the same ancestral DNA as us. When they take 23andMe, they will come out as predominantly "Filipino and Austronesian" even if that connection was 4,000 years ago.

One has to remember that even by our constitution, being Filipino is not about "blood ties". It is really about the paper trail and if you have valid claims to PH citizenship if you can prove that at least one of your parent was a Filipino citizen upon your birth.

If for example one was already past the age of 18 when the dual nationality act was passed, and their parent lost their Philippine citizenship before they were born, the government will not recognize them as PH citizens. If the PH government does not recognize them as PH citizens due to not meeting the requirements to claim PH citizenship, "ancestral ties" is useless.

The PH nationality laws is NOT like that of Israel or Ireland where if you can prove you have "Irish DNA" or "Jewish DNA" , you can claim citizenship in those countries even if you are 20 generations removed from those places. The Philippines defines Filipino not as ancestry or ethnicity or bloodline but solely on legal grounds.

If we are going to overemphasize "ancestry", "blood ties", "descent" we might as well tell people like Geo Chiu or Isaac Go to represent the PRC because that is the country they have "blood ties" to. After all their grandparents/parents are migrants from China not more than 100 years ago.

If Gabe Norwood's mother (who is "half" Filipino. Norwood is "one fourth") did not give birth to him when she was a minor, Gabe will not be able to claim PH citizenship unless he gets a sponsor that will bribe someone in the PSA or DFA. Small legal technicalities matter a lot.

Justin Brownlee can pretty much get his children to be part of a future Gilas team (granting that he processes their derivative PH citizenship while they are minors) and be considered a local despite the lack of "blood ties". His children's ties to the Philippines is not from "blood" or "ancestry" but from the fact that Brownlee is legally (aka paperwork) a Filipino. JBLs grandchildren can pretty be much as natural-born Filipinos as Oftana or Carl Tamayo despite the lack of what people refer to as "Filipino" blood which is just Austronesian ancestry (which is shared in large part of the Pacific World).

The problem with Qatar is not the lack of "blood ties" but lack of any kind of non-transactional relations between their players and the country they are representing. Harris neither has a parent who lived in Qatar nor did he prior to becoming a mercenary for them. If Qatar fielded someone whose both parents hailed from the Philippines but grew up in Qatar, that is a significant non-blood ties to Qatar.

It is important to note the origin and history of the term Filipino. The birth of the national consciousness of being a Filipino did not originate from the people we think as having "Filipino ancestry" (Austronesian peoples) but from the local-born Europeans. The first known person to refer to himself as a Filipino in a nationalistic way was not an "indio" but someone of European descent - Luis Rodriquez Varela. He was even known as El Conde Filipino.

The movie Gomburza shows the concept of Filipinoness very well - particularly during the conversation of Pedro Pelaez and Jose Burgos - and both of them are of European descent.

Thanks for explaining ,,, this is not mere semantics it really is the bottom line ( connection based on documentation)

[Artek]

This is what happens when pop culture racializes being Filipino. Even our constitution does not even care about "ancestry", "race", "descent". Being Filipino to the government is being legally Filipino. As in Filipino in paper.

If Olivia Rodrigo were a male and a basketball athlete, she will not be able to claim PH citizenship given that she is 3rd generation and her father was born at the time when the PH did not recognize dual citizenship. The only way she could be a "PH citizen" is if they bribe the PSA or DFA like what Alice Guo did.

A good example is the Tony Labrusco fiasco. Everyone knows his parents were born Filipino. But there was a time that Tony only showed his US passport so the IO gave him the standard 30 day visa free visit, and Tony complained not getting a "balikbayan visa". Without travelling with a former PH citizen family, he cannot claim balikbayan visa. The immigration threatened him for his behavior and warned him that if they find out that he is working without a visa or proof of PH citizenship, they will deport or blacklist him.

Even our government does not care about "descent". It only cares if you can prove you are a citizen.

[DAdmiral]

Mehhh, ...The great Manchester United legend Eric Cantona once said "Qatar is not a country of football. It's about money and the way they treated the people who built the stadiums, horrible." Which sums everything up. They buy everything with money, and display this public facade that theirs is a great sporting nation, filled with sports heroes. But in reality, their sports culture is manufactured and definitely inorganic.

Yup totally am appalled with the way things work with sports in the middle east , buying golf etc, that is why while a go to world sports competition, i will never go to a Qatar hosted world event . I DONT support their approach and ways .

[Artek]

Thanks for explaining ,,, this is not mere semantics it really is the bottom line ( connection based on documentation)

It's not that hard to understand. All people have to do is read our citizenship laws.

The problem here is people are interpreting what a Filipino is based on the American definition instead of interpreting being Filipino based on our laws and history.

[DAdmiral]

This is what happens when pop culture racializes being Filipino. Even our constitution does not even care about "ancestry", "race", "descent". Being Filipino to the government is being legally Filipino. As in Filipino in paper.

If Olivia Rodrigo were a male and a basketball athlete, she will not be able to claim PH citizenship given that she is 3rd generation and her father was born at the time when the PH did not recognize dual citizenship. The only way she could be a "PH citizen" is if they bribe the PSA or DFA like what Alice Guo did.

A good example is the Tony Labrusco fiasco. Everyone knows his parents were born Filipino. But there was a time that Tony only showed his US passport so the IO gave him the standard 30 day visa free visit, and Tony complained not getting a "balikbayan visa". Without travelling with a former PH citizen family, he cannot claim balikbayan visa. The immigration threatened him for his behavior and warned him that if they find out that he is working without a visa or proof of PH citizenship, they will deport or blacklist him.

Even our government does not care about "descent". It only cares if you can prove you are a citizen.

Some people might be thinking you're too technically legal here, but in reality you're NOT. especially if you look at it from a different perspective , if all those people with so called ancestry race decent are really legally Filipino. then the over 1 billion Chinese ethnicity outside of China ( 2nd and 3rd generation children of a migrant in 1900's or earlier are legally Chinese , (that would be ridiculous) and 90 % of NBA player who are of African ethnicity should be able to play for an African nation of their choice .

[Artek]

Mehhh, ...The great Manchester United legend Eric Cantona once said "Qatar is not a country of football. It's about money and the way they treated the people who built the stadiums, horrible." Which sums everything up. They buy everything with money, and display this public facade that theirs is a great sporting nation, filled with sports heroes. But in reality, their sports culture is manufactured and definitely inorganic.

The Middle East Gulf countries is not a region of sports. The biggest irony here is they are importing children from other nations to represent Qatar but Qatar is not tapping the potential talents from their foreign residents. Qatar is like 88% non-citizens.

[Artek]

Some people might be thinking you're too technically legal here, but in reality you're NOT. especially if you look at it from a different perspective , if all those people with so called ancestry race decent are really legally Filipino. then the over 1 billion Chinese ethnicity outside of China ( 2nd and 3rd generation children of a migrant in 1900's or earlier are legally Chinese , (that would be ridiculous) and 90 % of NBA player who are of African ethnicity should be able to play for an African nation of their choice .

Those people should try losing their PH citizenship, having children after, never reclaiming their lost PH citizenship, and try to claim their children's Filipino citizenship "by descent" and we'll see if the government will recognize their kid based on "ancestry" alone. . The only way this can happen is if they bribe the PSA or DFA to do hocus pocus with papers.

Being Filipino is a LEGAL matter. Even if your grandparents were originally from the Philippines, moved somewhere else, lost their PH citizenship before your parents were born, you cannot play for the Philippines in FIBA (and even in the SEA.and Asian Games) because in the first place, the government of the Philippines will not recognize you as a PH citizen unless you prove that you meet the requirements (having a citizen parent at the time of your birth) to have a claim.

[ja.he]

Tim Cone will not take bait of Jared McCain. lols

[JAMSKIE]

How to we define "blood ties"? DNA/Genes
If that is the case, then we might as well consider Taiwanese Aboriginals, Chamorros, Malagasy people because they
share the same ancestral DNA as us. When they take 23andMe, they will come out as predominantly "Filipino and Austronesian" even if that connection was 4,000 years ago.

One has to remember that even by our constitution, being Filipino is not about "blood ties". It is really about the paper trail and if you have valid claims to PH citizenship if you can prove that at least one of your parent was a Filipino citizen upon your birth.

If for example one was already past the age of 18 when the dual nationality act was passed, and their parent lost their Philippine citizenship before they were born, the government will not recognize them as PH citizens. If the PH government does not recognize them as PH citizens due to not meeting the requirements to claim PH citizenship, "ancestral ties" is useless.

The PH nationality laws is NOT like that of Israel or Ireland where if you can prove you have "Irish DNA" or "Jewish DNA" , you can claim citizenship in those countries even if you are 20 generations removed from those places. The Philippines defines Filipino not as ancestry or ethnicity or bloodline but solely on legal grounds.

If we are going to overemphasize "ancestry", "blood ties", "descent" we might as well tell people like Geo Chiu or Isaac Go to represent the PRC because that is the country they have "blood ties" to. After all their grandparents/parents are migrants from China not more than 100 years ago.

If Gabe Norwood's mother (who is "half" Filipino. Norwood is "one fourth") did not give birth to him when she was a minor, Gabe will not be able to claim PH citizenship unless he gets a sponsor that will bribe someone in the PSA or DFA. Small legal technicalities matter a lot.

Justin Brownlee can pretty much get his children to be part of a future Gilas team (granting that he processes their derivative PH citizenship while they are minors) and be considered a local despite the lack of "blood ties". His children's ties to the Philippines is not from "blood" or "ancestry" but from the fact that Brownlee is legally (aka paperwork) a Filipino. JBLs grandchildren can pretty be much as natural-born Filipinos as Oftana or Carl Tamayo despite the lack of what people refer to as "Filipino" blood which is just Austronesian ancestry (which is shared in large part of the Pacific World).

The problem with Qatar is not the lack of "blood ties" but lack of any kind of non-transactional relations between their players and the country they are representing. Harris neither has a parent who lived in Qatar nor did he prior to becoming a mercenary for them. If Qatar fielded someone whose both parents hailed from the Philippines but grew up in Qatar, that is a significant non-blood ties to Qatar.

It is important to note the origin and history of the term Filipino. The birth of the national consciousness of being a Filipino did not originate from the people we think as having "Filipino ancestry" (Austronesian peoples) but from the local-born Europeans. The first known person to refer to himself as a Filipino in a nationalistic way was not an "indio" but someone of European descent - Luis Rodriquez Varela. He was even known as El Conde Filipino.

The movie Gomburza shows the concept of Filipinoness very well - particularly during the conversation of Pedro Pelaez and Jose Burgos - and both of them are of European descent.

In my raw understanding of blood ties it would simply mean a person's blood relation to a certain citizenship. I don't want to go deeper as to mention ethnicity or race because it would only complicate things. I just would like to make it as simple as it can get. For instance, a Chris Newsome who is considered a Fil-American as his father is an American ( most likely an Afro-american) and his mother being a natural born Filipino. Now that's what makes Chris Newsome having blood ties with Filipino. Kung sa salitang kalye, meron syang dugong Pinoy. Now it doesn't matter that Chris Newsome's mother is of Malay descent or of Chinse descent or of Spanish descent (as we all know we Filipinos are mixture of various races), what is important is she is a natural born Filipino citizen.

Now compare that to the case of say a Justin Brownlee who is a naturalized Filipiino. Brownlee has no Filipino blood ties becoz both his parents are Americans (most likely both are Afro-americans). Wala syang dugong Pinoy.

Let's just keep it plain and simple & let's not be so particular about semantics because we are not in a Courtroom or any tribunal. Even foreign coaches and players, when you mention "blood ties", they already know what you are implying. They won't demand any explaination about what U mean by that term.

[JAMSKIE]

You're missing the point and misinterpreting what I'm saying , I'm simply accurately distinguishing what blood connection really means, to be precisely accurate it is verification of holding a document that one is connected (e.g. parent) to a person ,who is either a current/former Citizen or resident of the country. What it is NOT is mere connection to a person to someone of similar ethnicity (Malyay etc) , this is not semantics at all. But literally the basis of almost all Nations on recognizing who is a citizen or not. it's still based on a document . and in that case regardless of the difference in document to support one's connection Harris indeed has more of documented verifiable connection to Qatar than Jordan Clarson has to the Philippines.

BTW Newsome has a connection to a Philippine parent who is a former citizen , Harris does NOT, no one is saying the basis of Harris connection is via his parents

Whether U admit it or not bro, U have become so particular about semantics which only complicates things. When someone says "may dugong Pinoy yan", U would ask, what does dugong Pinoy means since Pinoys are a mix of Malay, Chinese, Spanish races. Eh 99.9% of people hearing such statement (May dugong Pinoy yan) would already know what that guy is implying. Even our own basketball sports casters/analysts like Andy Jao, Quinito Henson, Bill Velasco, Noli Eala, the late Ed Piczon (who are well educated people), would use the term "dugong Pinoy" & the televiewers/listeners would understand what they are talking about. Definitely, Andy Jao & company aren't that particular about semantics.