2023 SEA Games (Cambodia)

[carmelo7]

"Our 8 players have the same body type as their 6 players"

- they may have afro-american genes. but the difference here is that these americans you are referring to have the residence, playing in our domestics leagues or, in some cases, have an education here. so the connection between these fil-fors and the philippines is already there. this is something these naturalized cambodians are lacking.

"7 of our players have the same education/upbringing as their 6 players"

- mike philipps has been receiving lasallian education. chris newsome graduated in ateneo while mason amos will study also in ateneo. did those naturalized cambodians, at some point in their life, study in cambodia?

again, they may have the same physique but they are still different. those fil-fors are PH residents for many years, some are students in local universities while others a mainstays in the PBA for many seasons. the same is not true with those naturalized cambodia. they are specifically naturalized for this event.

to make things clear, i am not against the move of cambodia. their house, their rules. my point of post is that fil-fors and those naturalized cambodians are not the same.

The biggest difference/gap with our guys (fil-foreigners) save for Brownlee&CS vs Cambodian naturalized players is that all are vets and currently playing as imports for other local leagues. they're seasoned players in their primes buti na lng hnd Rondae Hollis-Jefferson level but really serviceable

[paolylo]

Not sure what you're getting at here but Cambodia's naturalized players are obviously more skilled and experienced (G League and Euro leagues) compared to our Fil-foreigners outside maybe of C-Stan. That's the main reason why they were very competitive in the first place.

Also, as others have pointed out here, it's not an apples to apples comparison as at least our Fil-foreigners have Pinoy blood, study/live here, and/or speak Filipino. The same cannot be said of their naturalized players. It's quite obvious Cambodia's only goal is to win gold--forget player development and performing well in FIBA-sanctioned tournaments.

Possibly getting at either two things:

a. Humanap na rin ang SBP ng mga mercenary para patas sa SEA/Asian Games kasi matagal na rin naman ginagawa
b. Gawing all natural-born ang Gilas para wala silang masabi sa atin at may dahilan tayo kapag natatalo

Both asinine. One is a misplaced sense of patriotism, the other is a false sense of fairness. Either won't get one far in life.

[Metta]

Reality check, we lost the gold and need to redeem it. If college players compose hlaf of this team we will not even medal in this Games. People again will be mad as hell. If other SEA nation will use pros, Halfs and naturalized players, college player will b a huge disadvantage. Other Nation are taking this tournaments more seriously.

I think I was one of the first to bring up this issue of using SEAG as development for our HS/College players.

For context, I said this should be done because we have a promising batch of players within the 18-20 year old range. Guys who would fall in that range Amos, Caelum, Phillips, Bayla, LSGH duo, etc. You sprinkle that with Kai, Tamayo (and other guys who are still close to their age). This will also serve to force Kai and Tamayo to develop being go-to-guy type of leaders.

Obviously, winning SEAG gold would not be the primary objective. Primary objective would be a long-term program of development to maximize this special batch.

They will lose in the beginning. But that is the point, it's what "play up" mentality is, you keep playing better competition and then when you reach their level go to a higher level and repeat.

Pinoys love underdogs. I'm confident even casual fans will understand what is happening in front of their eyes when they see us sending teenagers to grown-men competitions. And they will always have the "we're smart we are using this to develop our youth" card to use in socmed comments sections.

Imagine doing this for more than 5 years, how good will this batch be by then?

[The Firm]

Both asinine. One is a misplaced sense of patriotism, the other is a false sense of fairness. Either won't get one far in life.

Agree. Well said.

[paliganibossalfrancis]

But this concept contradicts the PBA's isolationist ideology, which supposedly promotes the prioritization of Filipino talents over foreigners as a means to emphasize the value of Filipino basketball culture, but in reality, it simply serves as a strategy to minimize its expenses.

PBA will soon realize it will die slowly if they insist on being insular. Our best players doesnt play in the PBA (Ray Parks, Dwight, Rhenz, Tamayo, RJ, Kai, Bolick, etc). They must find a way to replace them at least. Cheap way to do it is to hire promising Southeast Asian players.

We could learn a thing or two from NBL Australia. Best Aussie players are either in the NBA (Patty) or Euroleague (Dante Exum), so they replace them with 3 American imports per team. They're not at all detrimental to the locals' development.

[paliganibossalfrancis]

I think I was one of the first to bring up this issue of using SEAG as development for our HS/College players.

For context, I said this should be done because we have a promising batch of players within the 18-20 year old range. Guys who would fall in that range Amos, Caelum, Phillips, Bayla, LSGH duo, etc. You sprinkle that with Kai, Tamayo (and other guys who are still close to their age). This will also serve to force Kai and Tamayo to develop being go-to-guy type of leaders.

Obviously, winning SEAG gold would not be the primary objective. Primary objective would be a long-term program of development to maximize this special batch.

They will lose in the beginning. But that is the point, it's what "play up" mentality is, you keep playing better competition and then when you reach their level go to a higher level and repeat.

Pinoys love underdogs. I'm confident even casual fans will understand what is happening in front of their eyes when they see us sending teenagers to grown-men competitions. And they will always have the "we're smart we are using this to develop our youth" card to use in socmed comments sections.

Imagine doing this for more than 5 years, how good will this batch be by then?

Chot already said this would be his last SEAG stint and this would be the last time veterans will represent Philippines in the sea games. He's on the same page with us in using the tournament for our developmental players. I think it wouldve been ok for SBP to use college players and risk losing the Gold again for the sake of development but since the World Cup is coming, Gilas needs its morale up.

[Giannis34GOD]

Phil Jackson and CTC use the triangle. They both had MJ and JB, respectively play within the triangle. Meanwhile Chot has iso for his top player renamed as "dribble drive," drive and kick and dribble & pull-up.

It depends to the player's fit for the system (whether it's good or not)... Giannis back in 2019 didn't use properly by Greece in 2019 FIBA WC because Giannis needs to follow beautiful European system, Then all of suddenly, the system and Giannis didn't clicked... So it depends... Brownlee fits w/ Chot's DDO... So that's on players' fit to the system as always...

[Giannis34GOD]

Chot already said this would be his last SEAG stint and this would be the last time veterans will represent Philippines in the sea games. He's on the same page with us in using the tournament for our developmental players. I think it wouldve been ok for SBP to use college players and risk losing the Gold again for the sake of development but since the World Cup is coming, Gilas needs its morale up.

It should be... Go back to developmental team to participate in SEAG... No need to prove there... Let other countries enjoy regional competition, While Gilas concentrated in Asian and world level... SEAG is only low level tournament TBH!!!! I don't know why some people here too much serious about this regional tournament that is already proved time and time again that PHL is still undisputed kings of ASEAN basketball...

[Giannis34GOD]

I miss Jones cup, the de facto gilas team b ateneo played in 2018..this is the right avenue to test the young guys, indonesian locals are improving.. in that 3rd place game Propser and beane didn even played major minutes

That Diagne guy will be a problem for Gilas in the future... Future backbone of Indonesia team.. They have another one recruit from Senegal... Expect him to play in next SEAG as well.... Thailand copying Gilas style of program and recruitment while Indonesia follows European model of development...

[Giannis34GOD]

And to think jakrawan played sub par this sea games..especially with entry of breunig..

Breunig, Holder, Morgan (another one, not Moses) and Lamb... who will be the best fit for Thailand's NP? Honestly, I don't like what their program is doing... They keep recruiting foreign born Thai lineage that is FIBA ineligible... Unless of them willing to sacrifice their career and stay for Thailand for atleast for long...

[Giannis34GOD]

key takeaways to the Philippines-Indonesian game:

- JB was able to outmuscled the shorter Indonesian guards and wings.
- Diagne is good. I see him as a combo forward in the near future.
- Indonesia, as a team, plays beautiful basketball. I see them winning regularly beyond SEA for years to come. Even though they can't use Beane and their naturalized big at the same time, this team is still good with their system in place.


key takeaways in the 2023 SEA basketball as a whole:

- Thailand will just get better with the Thai-Am trio of Lamb, Morgan and Lish at the top of the team's hierarchy. Bruenig could be the missing puzzle for the Thais to make waves beyond SEA. With Bruenig, Jakrawan and Patipan will get some help underneath.
- Indonesia is getting good as well. They seem to be very organized. Again, I believe they will be good at the Asian level. The frontline of Bolden, DMX, Vincent, and Diagne will be decent.
- Philippines needs to step up as Thailand and Indonesia are closing the gap. Gone are the days that we will steamroll our opposition in SEA Games.

In FIBA, Lamb and Bruenig can't play together... That will be their problem in FIBA sanctioned tournaments... But if i were Thai, I will pick Breunig than Lamb... Lish and Morgan can do the scoring... But they badly needs Jakrawan's back up big (or let's say partners in frontcourt rotation)... They were bullied by Guam's bigs last FIBA pre-qualifiers... In FIBA Asia cup qualifiers, They will face much bigger teams... Lamb is very good but Thai lacks big man... And Breunig will fit Thai more than another scorer in Lamb... While Indonesia is getting better... They lose to Thailand today, but they did the right thing to use locals today than forced to play Prosper and Beane together that will hurt the development of local players... It seems that Prosper's duty in Indonesia might be over... Bolden might play for Indonesia in Pre OQT in August, plus comebacking Grahita and DMX... I like their chances on upsetting Korea in getting the lone spot for main OQT next year... And i guess Diagne will get his exemption case for sure, They can be a tough team... A combination of Bolden, DMX and Diagne at bigs while Grahita and Prastawa at guards for leadership... Jawato will play as 6th man... I want them to upset Korea this pre-OQT this August....

[Rodbi]

Hopefully oscar lopes play in asia(abl).. he has asean heritage and can help cambodia have some respectability

He'd be perfect in the PBA as an Asian-heritage import should the league re-adopt it.

[DAdmiral]

To me this was the best SEAG men's basketball competition ever, it was of a higher level than the usual lower level in SEAG. so it's win win for the region. It's definitely a win for gilas (aside from Gold) a few more WC prospects are in consideration. and at the very least the moral of the team and it's fans should be good looking towards the WC.
While there are still deep concerns with the program and how we will perform in the WC , at least we are better now than when we started the SEAG ( i think)

[Giannis34GOD]

To me this was the best SEAG men's basketball competition ever, it was of a higher level than the usual lower level in SEAG. so it's win win for the region. It's definitely a win for gilas (aside from Gold) a few more WC prospects are in consideration. and at the very least the moral of the team and it's fans should be good looking towards the WC.
While there are still deep concerns with the program and how we will perform in the WC , at least we are better now than when we started the SEAG ( i think)

To be fair... Only Thailand and Cambodia go all out this edition, Malaysia could have their own NP this edition but the process of their naturalization is too long and still not finish yet... Vietnam have some issues in their basketball program and this version of their line up is weaker, familiar names such as Juzang, Dierker, etc... didn't line up by VBF... Indonesia missing guys like Bolden (their best NP player), DMX and Grahita... This is considered team B + of Indonesia only, While we all know Gilas line up in SEAG is not ideal by the way... The biggest loser aside form Cambodia here is Thailand... This was supposed their version of "DREAM TEAM" but still only manage salvage bronze medal, They were lucky that Indonesia didn't try to win in their bronze medal match... They have too many ball hog players in their line up... Lish become ineffective when he and Holder in the same line up... Lamb also struggling to get chemistry w/ new teammates...Brueinig is not as good as advertise by some forumers here...

[reamily]

Robert no way grahita is better than beane and I think the morgans and lish already played as a fiba local as for lamb if Lish and morgan where given local eligibility why tyler lamb can't ? So it boils down to breunig and tra holder as their naturalized player.. Did you expect breunig to be a 6'10 shot blocking terrence jones like player for thailand he was effectiv doesnt look out of shape and played his role..