Filipino Players in Foreign Leagues

[Silent Killer]

So what you're telling me is that scouts are willing to overlook the physical disadvantages of prospects but Kai has to be a complete player before even dreaming of being in the mocks? Masyado naman yan. I understand that the physical disadvantages matter less to other positions, but in Kai's case his main disadvantage can be solved by just giving him time. I'm sure majority of the prospects going into the draft have their own disadvantages too; the point of drafting a young player is to secure him for the future right? Only top prospects are expected to have instant impact, and that isn't Kai.

theirs a reason he hasn’t crack the top 100 yet even with string of double digit scoring.. even kai score in 20’s but the weaknesses still there it will not go up.. and theirs a reason dieng, besson went up..

even he scored nothing but made an impact on his defensive weaknesses then the ratings will go up and the scouts will notice that..

[Trae Yong]

LOL ayaw niyo sa 2022?

hmmmm some of the top prospects for 2023

Victor Wembanyama - no introduction needed
Scoot Henderson - tearing up the GLeague as a 6'3 17 YO PG while earning USD1M in the process
Dereck Lively - all around 7 footer who is projected to be a Tyson Chandler with 3 point range

NBA royalty in the sons of Shaq and Dikembe Mutombo are also projected to be drafted in 2023

hehehehe so ano 2024 na lang?

[Trae Yong]

Dieng is playing well today. I think he has scored 14 points with 3 triples with a couple of minutes left in the game.

Although Dieng has been inconsistent in producing points in past few games, he did displayed good handles all the time for wing/small forward. Even setting up the offense. His long wing span, good handles and versatility (can play multi-positions) i think is what attracts NBA scouts. But sometimes he defers in offense or hesitant.

Besson is different. He’s a scoring guard.

Dieng is also listed as a 1st rounder for 2023, its a no brainer that any 6'9 player with guard skills and who moves effortlessly will elicit tons of interest from NBA scouts

[DAdmiral]

Question I haven't looked, is Kai listed in any 2023 mocks ?

Dieng is obvious as he can really choose when to enter as his eligibility class as an international prospect is not until 2025!

If Kai is not rated highly in 2022 I think in 2023 he's not rated at all . As it's not his main default eligibility year

[Trae Yong]

Question I haven't looked, is Kai listed in any 2023 mocks ?

Dieng is obvious as he can really choose when to enter as his eligibility class as an international prospect is not until 2025!

If Kai is not rated highly in 2022 I think in 2023 he's not rated at all . As it's not his main default eligibility year

nada Kai is listed in 2022 as a prospect outside the top 60. No. 103 to be exact

[DAdmiral]

With Chet's skill set you can really use him as a small ball 5.
If that makes sense to some... he's a huge prospect weapon for today's NBA. The Spurs would love to have him.. (need to tank more and be winless for remaining games Lol

Here is his write up as the 1st pick
Weighing in at less than 200 pounds despite a 7-foot frame, there are -- and will continue to be -- concerns about Chet Holmgren's long-term durability that shadow his prospects. And it's a big reason why he doesn't rank this high on my Big Board. But Holmgren's ability to space the floor, create, and defend the rim at an elite level -- all on full display this season at Gonzaga -- may be too tantalizing to pass on here given his all-around impact

[jasper222]

theirs a reason he hasn’t crack the top 100 yet even with string of double digit scoring.. even kai score in 20’s but the weaknesses still there it will not go up.. and theirs a reason dieng, besson went up..

even he scored nothing but made an impact on his defensive weaknesses then the ratings will go up and the scouts will notice that..

Most of Kai's weaknesses can be made up given time. Nobody's asking, not even me, for Kai to get to the big board. I'm saying his talent should be enough to get there, but I'm satisfied with just getting drafted, or even a draft and stash for further development. People misunderstand, I'm not denying Kai's weaknesses, it's that prospects are drafted for potential and training plus time with the pros should theoretically shore up these weaknesses.

Being a mobile 7'2/7'3 is defense enough in itself. You cannot teach height sabi nga nila.

Why is Kai's defense an issue anyway? Because of positioning and PNR? Like in all cases, that comes with time. Even the DPOY Gobert can't always stop the PNR and 36 year old Chris Paul keeps scoring on him.

[Silent Killer]

Most of Kai's weaknesses can be made up given time. Nobody's asking, not even me, for Kai to get to the big board. I'm saying his talent should be enough to get there, but I'm satisfied with just getting drafted, or even a draft and stash for further development. People misunderstand, I'm not denying Kai's weaknesses, it's that prospects are drafted for potential and training plus time with the pros should theoretically shore up these weaknesses.

Being a mobile 7'2/7'3 is defense enough in itself. You cannot teach height sabi nga nila.

Why is Kai's defense an issue anyway? Because of positioning and PNR? Like in all cases, that comes with time. Even the DPOY Gobert can't always stop the PNR and 36 year old Chris Paul keeps scoring on him.

it’s always an issue.. if you backread, it’s been discussed by some people here.. and it has youtube as well..

[DAdmiral]

Jasper
So why do you think scouts still don't rate Kai high?
Conspiracy. Bias . What?

Or perhaps it's the extent of the weaknesses that makes it difficult to envision it can be improved over time ? Is that not a possibility that scouts view it as such.
Note also Kai in the 2022 draft is above the average age , in 2023 it gets worst. And were not talking about a late Boomer here . In fact I reckon Kai has the benefit of the most exposure to NBA personnel.
Perhaps the assessment is not only is Kai's current level not fully developed but the consensus opinion is his upside to address those weaknesses is not realistic
have you ever thought that is a possibility?
Is it not possible that Kai's natural defense abilities is not Gobert type but more sumilar to Boban type ? Think about it.
Natural defense tendencies is a talent, and perhaps Kai does not have that natural talent. (Height alone does not make you a natural talented defender )

[HarryRoque]

Jasper
So why do you think scouts still don't rate Kai high?
Conspiracy. Bias . What?

Or perhaps it's the extent of the weaknesses that makes it difficult to envision it can be improved over time ? Is that not a possibility that scouts view it as such.
Note also Kai in the 2022 draft is above the average age , in 2023 it gets worst. And were not talking about a late Boomer here . In fact I reckon Kai has the benefit of the most exposure to NBA personnel.
Perhaps the assessment is not only is Kai's current level not fully developed but the consensus opinion is his upside to address those weaknesses is not realistic
have you ever thought that is a possibility?
Is it not possible that Kai's natural defense abilities is not Gobert type but more sumilar to Boban type ? Think about it

u porgot Agenda

[IPC]

Where is loyalty to the PBA?

https://www.philstar.com/sports/2022/02/06/2158814/where-loyalty-pba

The talk is monthly salaries for Asian quota imports are in the range of $8,000 to $30,000 with the average settling at between $15,000 to $20,000. The numbers are enticing even for a Kemark Cariño receiving a salary at the lowest end. It’s difficult to turn your back on that kind of money. But life isn’t all about just money. Filipinos in the B.League are mostly in lower-tier teams, losing more than winning. They’re on their own, outside of their comfort zone, without family, without a support system, sometimes playing minimal minutes, sometimes playing more than minimal. Juan Gomez de Liaño has left Japan and it’s likely more will follow. The agent who’s targeting Class A PBA players to bring to Japan is dangling enormous figures although he wasn’t successful in luring Japeth Aguilar out of Barangay Ginebra. It’s a business for this agent but it may also be his vendetta for getting fired from the PBA. Still, playing overseas is an opportunity for those who are just in it for the money.

Nako. Lotta people on Twitter are taking the piss on Quinito's article. Among them Karlo Lovenia, Joe Viray, Hoops Highlights, and I think even Kilikilishot.

[The_Big_Cat]

This is Chet Holmgren. Wala lang.


It's wild to me how one game determines Dieng's draft, while Kai has to endure a whole additional season just for people to be sure he's going to get drafted, and even then the doubt is still there. Nevermind that Kai's statline is consistent after coming back from injury. It's like the NBA Draft Reddit threads I posted in the NBL thread a few days ago all over again.

At some point there has to be a concession. To my eyes they're both getting drafted, just that if Kai decides to remain for another year in the NBL his draft stock will go higher because his strength will finally come into play. But there's a risk of staying in a highly physical league, and we've experienced that firsthand.

In relation to the other thread, I understand drafting for potential 100%. That was not my point, since Kai's potential is also there, and in full view by outperforming his fellow big men prospects, nevermind the guards and forwards.



Talent-wise in case of homegrowns, probably. Overall? JMF will still outmuscle him but Kai can keep up now. Let us remember that he was playing with the Gilas pros before TSF.

If I recall it correctly, Kevin Durant faced the same question before the draft; the lack of muscle. Durant was like only 95 kg before being drafted 2nd overall.

Holmgren is already a known commodity since high school. He was so good in high school that even ESPN were featuring highlights of some of his games. Scouts have looked at him for the longest time. Despite the lack of muscle, the kid plays exceptional defense. Has great foot speed for a big man. And his handles are above average for a big man.

[jasper222]

it’s always an issue.. if you backread, it’s been discussed by some people here.. and it has youtube as well..

I was part of that discussion. I rattled off weaknesses in a post similar to how Yeshkel displayed in his video. I know as well as anybody what they are. I'm just asking if there are more, because a lot of people are somehow convinced that Kai will never get his weaknesses fixed, or that half of his weaknesses are a product of his still developing body.

Jasper
So why do you think scouts still don't rate Kai high?
Conspiracy. Bias . What?

Or perhaps it's the extent of the weaknesses that makes it difficult to envision it can be improved over time ? Is that not a possibility that scouts view it as such.
Note also Kai in the 2022 draft is above the average age , in 2023 it gets worst. And were not talking about a late Boomer here . In fact I reckon Kai has the benefit of the most exposure to NBA personnel.
Perhaps the assessment is not only is Kai's current level not fully developed but the consensus opinion is his upside to address those weaknesses is not realistic
have you ever thought that is a possibility?
Is it not possible that Kai's natural defense abilities is not Gobert type but more sumilar to Boban type ? Think about it.
Natural defense tendencies is a talent, and perhaps Kai does not have that natural talent. (Height alone does not make you a natural talented defender )

I'll compartmentalize my response.

1. Unless we have connections to well placed scouts in the NBA, we have zero idea on who gets drafted until a few weeks or so before it. We are months away. And mocks don't always mirror the real thing; like someone said, Anthony Bennett. Nobody expected the Cavs to take him 1st overall. My opinion about Kai not ranking high has always been to the mocks, not the actual scouts. I've been consistent in this regard.

2. The consensus about Kai's weakness not addressed is also from the mocks, or at least concluded from them. That means we still have no idea about their real gradings. Not only that, but Kai's biggest weakness from the TSF-Ignite days has been addressed, which was speed. He's not the most active player out there but Kai can keep up with NBL pros downhill. Doesn't that show that he can improve on his weaknesses? Or are we going to act like it was never the case?

3. Kai knows how to protect the rim well. We've seen that effect in all of the FIBA games under Coach Tab. I agree that natural defense is a talent that Kai doesn't have, but to imply that he's useless at the NBA level on defense when he's held his own against NBA prospects, NBL players, and Delly, is a bit much.

I already know the stance of the mocks. Nobody has to tell me (or us, in general) how they feel and what the criteria for getting into them are. I think I'm free to point out hypocrisy when I see it, like chalking up X's one game as the draft ticket while Y should go through a whole season despite doing much better. Remember when I was last active, I think this was when Kai was still about to go to the NBL, that if he averaged anywhere near Josh Giddey's numbers, he'd have a real chance going into the draft or something along those lines? I truly think this way still, but at the same time I can also accept that there are factors beyond Kai's control that stop him from being recognized in the mocks. I also think that scouts doing their homework is proof that Kai has legit interest from NBA teams, and that like you and me, there are also foreign opinions that correspond with my line of thinking, like Coach Bruton and Coach Allen.

So in essence, I think the actual scouts in the NBA rate Kai high enough (high enough to be drafted regardless of round) to be asking about him. Not just from what we see, but from training too. It's scarier to have nobody asking about you, than to be ranked low publicly but still be asked about.

[DAdmiral]

Is it a crime for an agent to recruit a player for overseas? And the player to accept ?

Do people just go overseas for money . So if you're an artist . And what to expand your experience, that's not allowed?

Isn't that a natural consequence. If you're not active working domestically due to pandemic then find work overseas. Ano masama Doon?

And doesn't that make you a better player for Gilas sake ?

Weird mindset ..

[jasper222]

If I recall it correctly, Kevin Durant faced the same question before the draft; the lack of muscle. Durant was like only 95 kg before being drafted 2nd overall.

Holmgren is already a known commodity since high school. He was so good in high school that even ESPN were featuring highlights of some of his games. Scouts have looked at him for the longest time. Despite the lack of muscle, the kid plays exceptional defense. Has great foot speed for a big man. And his handles are above average for a big man.

I'm not part of the "Chet is weak" gang, if you're thinking that. I also think Chet is a great prospect.