Filipino Players in Foreign Leagues

[ja.he]

So you think their "overall" sports program mentality is bad? When Japan has arguably the GOAT of baseball in Shohei, and Son Heung Min of Korea is in the shortlist of best football wingers in the whole world? Both making hundreds of millions.

The way I see it, the diversification into different sports is actually good. It avoids dilution of talent which has been frequently discussed here before. Dudes who are not 'optimized" for success in basketball should play something else. Kudos to the boxers, billiard players and esport athletes for sticking with it.

I bet half of that hypothetical 1 million basketball talent pool we have could have been much better at playing a different sport.

I am not saying that their sports program mentality is bad. I am just responding to your argument correlating population with talent. For me, even if you have a huge population size, if you don't find a good number of talent, population means nothing. Indonesia is one, India is another. China also has a huge population with size but can't do a damn thing in the worlds.

For me, it boils to the combination effort, passion and raw talent.

[Metta]

I am not saying that their sports program mentality is bad. I am just responding to your argument correlating population with talent. For me, even if you have a huge population size, if you don't find a good number of talent, population means nothing. Indonesia is one, India is another. China also has a huge population with size but can't do a damn thing in the worlds.

For me, it boils to the combination effort, passion and raw talent.

And I was just answering your question why there's more pinoy players around...it's because there are more pinoy players. What Korea/Japan does is a separate matter.

India/Indo for their big population, has a fraction of basketball players (not to mention sports interest in anything). Population is only relevant to arrive at basketball population.

China isn't doing that bad of a job for an east asian country who historically hasn't used a lot of hafus and NPs. And China is consistently in the top of the Olympics which means their talent pool is even more diversified into a lot more different sports.

And yes of course other things matter. It'd be hard to find other countries as maniacal about basketball as us. And that counts for something and will seep into the quality of players. Like how football is a religion in Argentina, Brazil.

[ja.he]

So you think their "overall" sports program mentality is bad? When Japan has arguably the GOAT of baseball in Shohei, and Son Heung Min of Korea is in the shortlist of best football wingers in the whole world? Both making hundreds of millions.

The way I see it, the diversification into different sports is actually good. It avoids dilution of talent which has been frequently discussed here before. Dudes who are not 'optimized" for success in basketball should play something else. Kudos to the boxers, billiard players and esport athletes for sticking with it.

I bet half of that hypothetical 1 million basketball talent pool we have could have been much better at playing a different sport.

I am not saying their sports mentality is bad. I am just responding to your argument correlating population with the talent pool. Even if you have a huge population size, if you don't have any talent, then that huge population means nothing. Because if that's the case India (with size and huge population) and Indonesia (with population) should be atleast top 10 in Asia. China (with size and huge population) should be dominating the worlds. Not the case at all, though.

For me, it boils down to the combination of effort, passion and raw talent.

[empyreanmaze]

I always think of Pacquiao. Imagine if his uncle who veered him towards boxing was instead a basketball nut. Best case scenario, maybe Pacquiao would be a PBA player.

Instead, he's a boxing legend who owns a basketball league. There could've been more like him.

A lot of what ifs, another one I like entertaining are pinoy dudes who are obviously not built for basketball but are in it regardless(because it really is a culture) like John Amores and Beau Belga, these guys are built for football hooliganism. I get ticklish thinking how these are sporty "asian" mfs that would have the personality and physical gifts to make the likes of Erling Haaland nervous, we really could've been a Brazil/Mexico-like football nation without American colonization lol, the sad part is Brazil and Mexico does better in basketball even in our reality, idt hyperfixation on this sport has really benefited us that much

[empyreanmaze]

For me, it boils down to the combination of effort, passion and raw talent.

That could be true but why is it hard to visualize that there might simply be more pinoys athletes in basketball despite having a smaller general population? Let's say India has 10000 athletes we have 1000, 5% of that 10000 is 500 and 80% of that 1000 is 800 right? It's very likely that 80% of pinoy athletes are interested in basketball and only 5% of Indian athletes are. Not everyone in a country plays sports anyways, let alone professionally so you need to consider that additional nuance.

Let's consider facts first before penoy pride so we won't be so easy to make fun of by other countries

[ja.he]

Stopped reading here, idek any Korean players besides the dude playing in division 1 my boy, my interest in the KBL comes from my interest in watching specifically KQ and Tamayo's development, getting exposed to their player's playstyle and the league itself is a mutually beneficial aftermath. I do think pinoy players have better court intuition but the discrepancies in skill levels is exaggerated by pinoy fans and comes from a sense of inferiority complex. Korean players play a lot like soldiers, individual scoring really is not the priority, it's not just the "system" that makes them deadly against our nt, they have legitimately good individual players that understands pacing and physical management better than a lot of pinoy players.

Actually, it is not the Filipinos that have this exaggerated comments towards the performances of Filipino players. It was the Korean fans - which is in a very amusing way, reminds of how Filipino fans are reacting negatively to our players and positively towards Korean basketball.

[ja.he]

That could be true but why is it hard to visualize that there might simply be more pinoys athletes in basketball despite having a smaller general population? Let's say India has 10000 athletes we have 1000, 5% of that 10000 is 500 and 80% of that 1000 is 800 right? It's very likely that 80% of pinoy athletes are interested in basketball and only 5% of Indian athletes are.

Let's consider facts first before penoy pride so we won't be so easy to make fun of by other countries

No one is making fun of other countries here. I will tell you cannot just correlate population without considering other factors. I am also aware that the Philippines has huge talent pool because many are playing basketball. But is it the Philippines's fault that many are playing basketball?

For me, it is just an honest observation and not a kneejerk reaction.

[empyreanmaze]

Actually, it is not the Filipinos that have this exaggerated comments towards the performances of Filipino players. It was the Korean fans - which is in a very amusing way, reminds of how Filipino fans are reacting negatively to our players and positively towards Korean basketball.

I know, I read the comments in their highlights, the KBL and PBA have convergent evolutions, they're both filled with nepotism, corporate maneuvers and monopolies, the fan mentality are just the extension of that. Why I prefer our players to choose the KBL is because probably only like 4% of Korean athletes are interested in basketball compared to football and baseball(probably a lower percentage honestly, who tf knows of Kim Jong-Kyu before Son Hyung-Min in Korea). You need to consider the ceiling of their domestic basketball league, they're not even close to reaching it and they're already a threat to every NTs assembled by the PBA, fuck let's not talk of NT, pretty sure Korean school teams and direct club competitions regularly beats Pinoy basketball teams who pray to basketball gods every morning.

[Metta]

I am not saying their sports mentality is bad. I am just responding to your argument correlating population with the talent pool. Even if you have a huge population size, if you don't have any talent, then that huge population means nothing. Because if that's the case India (with size and huge population) and Indonesia (with population) should be atleast top 10 in Asia. China (with size and huge population) should be dominating the worlds. Not the case at all, though.

For me, it boils down to the combination of effort, passion and raw talent.

And I was just answering your question why there's more pinoy players around...it's because there are more pinoy players. What Korea/Japan does is a separate matter.

India/Indo for their big population, has a fraction of basketball players (not to mention sports interest in anything). Population is only made relevant to arrive at "basketball population."

China isn't doing that bad of a job for an east asian country who historically hasn't used a lot of hafus and NPs. And China is consistently in the top of the Olympics medal count which means their talent pool is even more diversified into a lot more different sports.

And yes of course other things matter. It'd be hard to find other countries as maniacal about basketball as us. And that counts for something and will seep into the quality of players. Like how football is a religion in Argentina, Brazil. (and fortunately for them they have World Cups and goats as a result).

And then there are the "nuances" of basketball population...how many of your pool is 6'6+, 7'+...How many are athletic...that's why we can't be compared apples to apples to a South Sudan, etc. But compared to similar asian countries...it's a numbers game.

[empyreanmaze]

No one is making fun of other countries here. I will tell you cannot just correlate population without considering other factors. I am also aware that the Philippines has huge talent pool because many are playing basketball. But is it the Philippines's fault that many are playing basketball?

For me, it is just an honest observation and not a kneejerk reaction.

The footnote is just a reminder that pinoy pride is easy to make fun of and easy to hate because it's based on pure kopong kopong stories on non-factual informations. What metric do you even use to measure "passion" and "raw" talent? what do those even mean? they're just empty rhetorics to look like we're better than we are. How would you like it when an indonesian tells you that their gold medal in the SEA games is definitive proof that ibl players are more physically talented and skillful than pinoy players and they only lack a proper leadership despite not really having many stats to back anything up but they swear the lack of stats is just because of their bad "system"? it just gets funny at best and you flat out develop passive hatred for whoever tf typed it at worst

[empyreanmaze]

China isn't doing that bad of a job for an east asian country who historically hasn't used a lot of hafus and NPs. And China is consistently in the top of the Olympics medal count which means their talent pool is even more diversified into a lot more different sports.

And then there are the "nuances" of basketball population...how many of your pool is 6'6+, 7'+...How many are athletic...that's why we can't be compared apples to apples to a South Sudan, etc. But compared to similar asian countries...it's a numbers game.

China actually has a fairly similar situation with us when it comes to the 2 most popular team sports(basketball and football), they're a good example to think about to avoid the "quantity fallacy", the thought that just because you have 10 more athletes, it doesn't mean you can make a team that is gonna be 10x more athetic than the opponent, such a dumbass thought pattern that we're susceptible to. This is the area where I believe Korea and recently Japan edges us, the negation of quantitative advantages, they're far more successful in adapting to modern paradigms both on and off the court, not to mention the infrastructure and first world corporate funding to back it. Korea and Japan shouldn't be competing with the Philippines considering the domestic interest levels and sheer quantity of participants in basketball relative to us but they are regardless, it's something to think about.

[Metta]

China actually has a fairly similar situation with us when it comes to the 2 most popular team sports(basketball and football), they're a good example to think about to avoid the "quantity fallacy", the thought that just because you have 10 more athletes, it doesn't mean you can make a team that is gonna be 10x more athetic than the opponent, such a dumbass thought pattern that we're susceptible to. This is the area where I believe Korea and recently Japan edges us, the negation of quantitative advantages, they're far more successful in adapting to modern paradigms both on and off the court, not to mention the infrastructure and first world corporate funding to back it. Korea and Japan shouldn't be competing with the Philippines considering the domestic interest levels and sheer quantity of participants in basketball relative to us but they are regardless, it's something to think about.

Several things plague Chinese basketball.

Too nationalistic...they're not using hafus (no dual citizenship) and haven't really been using great NPs. They recently used one and it's a light-skinned role player.

There's no youth football/soccer culture which could help the laterals of their bigs, same with us except we have hafus.

They lack creativity/dynamism because players are like factory-made starting from youth.

Their pro league pays well so low incentive to go to higher leagues.

And again, even with the great population, I think they pick players as kids and put them into many different sports. Not to mention they are culturally very similar to Indians where academics is way more important so that takes a big chunk of probable athletes.

Yet despite that (especially not using hafus/NPs) they've still been historically elite in Asia, and so far has Asia's best homegrown NBA player.

[deku_midoriya]

Several things plague Chinese basketball.

Too nationalistic...they're not using hafus (no dual citizenship) and haven't really been using great NPs. They recently used one and it's a light-skinned role player.

There's no youth football/soccer culture which could help the laterals of their bigs, same with us except we have hafus.

They lack creativity/dynamism because players are like factory-made starting from youth.

Their pro league pays well so low incentive to go to higher leagues.

And again, even with the great population, I think they pick players as kids and put them into many different sports. Not to mention they are culturally very similar to Indians where academics is way more important so that takes a big chunk of probable athletes.

Yet despite that (especially not using hafus/NPs) they've still been historically elite in Asia, and so far has Asia's best homegrown NBA player.

They are opening up. For the first time, they had a NP last WC. They currently have an african-chinese in their youth team

[Metta]

China has a very unique sports ecosystem...

https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201904/09/WS5cabf654a3104842260b5181.html

"Unlike the talent-cultivating system in the US, where pro athletes come from the collegiate ranks, elite players in China are identified early on and selected into the State-run system for training, isolated from ordinary schools.

Without a sound college system as a springboard to the pro ranks, most talented players in China's ordinary high schools must give up their pursuit of a serious sports career in order to focus on the all-important college entrance examination."

Their sports academies are good for repetitive types of sports like diving, gymnastics, weightlifting, etc and individual sports. Not as effective when it comes to team sports that need dynamism.

And suddenly, that enormous talent pool shrinks considerably once they choose the kids that they want on their state program and only develop those chosen ones. Everyone not chosen has no other way to develop properly. Picture how much politics and drama we have whenever there is a roster to be constructed. Now imagine how much of that drama/palakasan happens in China during the process of choosing which kids get to be in the skyway path to elite basketball.

[JAMSKIE]

Just finished watching the 2nd half of the LG Sakers vs. SK Knights game (di ko naabutan ang 1st half). Carl Tamayo was assigned to defend the import of SK Knights. I think Carl did a good job on defense against the import (at least that's what I saw in the 2nd half), though his team lost. I like Carl's physicality in the game. He doesn't backdown from contact.