Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[FilWelsh]

Aside from Gadiaga-Abassi another player from East Asia region who was re-classified from naturalised to local is Thailand’s Moses Morgan. I believed Tyler Lamb started as NP as well but FIBA changed his status to local Thai later in his career. Both Morgan and Lamb has some heritage links with Thailand though.

Among Filipino locals who has good chance on getting an exemption is Munzon. Residency wise I believe he meet the criteria…

[DAdmiral]

Oh really? What about those Qatari players of Bosnian descent who obtained Qatari citizenship prior to their 16th birthday? Did jus sanguinis applied to them? Obviously not! Obviously the parents of these Bosnian-Qatari players are natural born Bosnians of no Qatari descent. What made them eligible to play for the Qatar national team as local players is their "conversation" from being natural born Bosnians to Qatari citizens prior to their 16th birthday.

So if we analyzed it thoroughly, FIBA's rule on player eligibility is mainly technical & doesn't really put much weight on descent. I've heard Ethan Alvano of the KBL was born to both Filipino parents who migrated to the US. But Ethan failed to secure Philippine passport prior to his 16th birthday therefore he can't play for the Philippine team as a local player.

The thing is, if a player is born in a certain country, he can actually play for that country as a local player. Such provision was used by SBP to make Matthew Ganuaelas-Rosser eligible to play for Gilas as a local player. This despite he failed to obtain Phi passport prior to his 16th birthday. Matthew was born in the Philippnes. On the other hand, Matthew's younger brother Brandon Ganuelas-Rosser was not born here in Phi & hasn't obtained Phi passport before his 16th birthday. Therefore Brandon he is not FIBA eligible.

This makes me think that in the eyes of FIBA, jus soli weighs more than jus sanguinis.

You're missing the point , the point is how is lineage verified by an organization (including FIBA) , it's none other than documentation. (Nothing else), regardless if one is verifying connection to a parent, grand parent or great great ancestors. It's still documents . Not DNA or matching similar common enthicity of the country (never).
Other connections is explicitly mentioned in FIBA guildlines for exception (point 3)
NOW connections lineage to an ancestor in many instances cannot be verified by an ancestor having a registered citizenship, why? Cause citizenship in many countries was only established last 50 yrs. , many of the people who lived in a land ( like Philippines) before 1950 only had registered births or residency (not citizenship). So you can see in AGASSI he absolutely has lineage to permanent resident of Taiwan ( his parents) , do you now get the point ? Same way a Maker of Australia has lineage to his parents who are permanently residing in Australia even IF they are of African enthicity (see the difference).
This verification process is not only applied by FIBA, but any organization or country, yes even the KBL etc , it's verification of lineage to a person from that country ( whether resident or citizen). In KBL case they verify that both parents have documented lineage to the Philippines ( Not necessarily citizenship and Not enthicity)

The provision on eligibility by place of birth is for outright eligibility for citizens of a country.
We're talking about factors for exceptions here . And lineage by verified documents is absolutely part of the consideration for exception cases , was a point for Abassi

[JAMSKIE]

You're missing the point , the point is how is lineage verified by an organization (including FIBA) , it's none other than documentation. (Nothing else), regardless if one is verifying connection to a parent, grand parent or great great ancestors. It's still documents . Not DNA or matching similar common enthicity of the country (never).
Other connections is explicitly mentioned in FIBA guildlines for exception (point 3)
NOW connections lineage to an ancestor in many instances cannot be verified by an ancestor having a registered citizenship, why? Cause citizenship in many countries was only established last 50 yrs. , many of the people who lived in a land ( like Philippines) before 1950 only had registered births or residency (not citizenship). So you can see in AGASSI he absolutely has lineage to permanent resident of Taiwan ( his parents) , do you now get the point ? Same way a Maker of Australia has lineage to his parents who are permanently residing in Australia even IF they are of African enthicity (see the difference).
This verification process is not only applied by FIBA, but any organization or country, yes even the KBL etc , it's verification of lineage to a person from that country ( whether resident or citizen). In KBL case they verify that both parents have documented lineage to the Philippines ( Not necessarily citizenship and Not enthicity)

What I'm implying is that FIBA doesn't put much weight on jus sanguinis or descent as much as it does on technicality or documentation. The best proof of that is those Qatari players of Bosnian descent whose parents are obviously Bosnian with no Qatari bloodline or descent whatsoever. But these players are treated by FIBA as Qatari local players becoz they obtained Qatari citizenship prior to their 16th birthday. It didn't matter to FIBA that the parents of these players are not of Qatari descent.

On the other hand, to those half-breed or even full-blooded Filipino players who were born abroad, it doesn't matter to FIBA that these players are born of Filipino parents (jus sanguinis), what will matter to FIBA is whether these players laid claim of their Filipino citizenship (most common evidence is Philippine passport) before they reach 16 yrs of age or not.

Hope you get my point.

[JAMSKIE]

I am really not familiar with how immig works but technically a person won't be able to leave the country if they does not have a passport right? Meaning MGR should have his PH Passport for him to be able to leave PH, which he did at a young age. So technically, he did get his passport at young age, way before he is 16. I might be wrong though.

I get your point bro.
But from what I remember, what made Matt Ganuelas-Rosser FIBA eligible is the fact that he was born here in the Philippines. MGR is in the same case as former San Mig Coffee player Justin Melton who was also born here in our country.

I even remember many years ago when some posters here at IBN were duscussing about the possibility that Alex Compton may be considered by FIBA as a Pinoy local player becoz he was born here in the Philippines. Compton however is not a Filipino citizen since jos soli doesn't not apply to Philippiine citizenship law.

[DAdmiral]

What I'm implying is that FIBA doesn't put much weight on jus sanguinis or descent as much as it does on technicality or documentation. The best proof of that is those Qatari players of Bosnian descent whose parents are obviously Bosnian with no Qatari bloodline or descent whatsoever. But these players are treated by FIBA as Qatari local players becoz they obtained Qatari citizenship prior to their 16th birthday. It didn't matter to FIBA that the parents of these players are not of Qatari descent.

On the other hand, to those half-breed or even full-blooded Filipino players who were born abroad, it doesn't matter to FIBA that these players are born of Filipino parents (jus sanguinis), what will matter to FIBA is whether these players laid claim of their Filipino citizenship (most common evidence is Philippine passport) before they reach 16 yrs of age or not.

Hope you get my point.

Your point only refers to the emphasis of the passport before U16 rule , ( this is a no brainer established that it is based mainly on a document).
what we're referrig to recently in light of Abassi snd QMB is for exception cases, not the U16 outright rule or birth in country provision. . ( BTW I thought QMB had a passport before 16 , and was not applying for an exception? Lol, we all know what happened with that (document tampering etc).

now limited to exception caaes , lineage indeed is a factor for consideration, and it is verified by documents ( which Abassi has )., can be argued Abassi has stronger lineage connections to parent of Taiwan, than many Fil foreigners ( who's parents might not even be citizens or permanent residents of the Philippines) again and again it's not sharing similar enthicity blood that matters . Otherwise all African lineage people are connected to an African Nation

[DAdmiral]

While at topic of factors for exception

It's not mere enrollment in a schiol that matters

Also it is not mere residency that matters

but it's establishing extended period of both educational and player development in one's formative youth development years

This is inplied as guidelines ( residency, education connection) are for an AGE cuttoff rule U16

I hope people get this.

Studying 7 years in grade school or High school in a country is totally different from playung 7 years from 25 yrs old in a pro league , totally different

[FilWelsh]

While at topic of factors for exception

It's not mere enrollment in a schiol that matters

Also it is not mere residency that matters

but it's establishing extended period of both educational and player development in one's formative youth development years

This is inplied as guidelines ( residency, education connection) are for an AGE cuttoff rule U16

I hope people get this.

Studying 7 years in grade school or High school in a country is totally different from playung 7 years from 25 yrs old in a pro league , totally different

In short, there should be no question with Abassi’s status. Many posters here saw a glimmer of hope in citing his case as basis for exemption cases with some of our players. Easier said than done indeed…

[DAdmiral]

In short, there should be no question with Abassi’s status. Many posters here saw a glimmer of hope in citing his case as basis for exemption cases with some of our players. Easier said than done indeed…

Exactly, Abassi is a bad example to argue our case for Fil foreigners who have residency as an adult
Abassi was raised in Taiwan from 8 years old and has parental lineage to parents from Taiwan ( they are permanently residing in Taiwan and may even have citizenship).

Having said that Philips is a plausible case , assuming he established residency and schooling from 17 yrs old and has established connection with a parent or ancestor who has Philippine citizenship or residency

Using Qatar Harris exception may be more of a valid argument, but as a principle never good to use rare exceptiexceptions basis for ones case. Use the explicit guildlines

[Metta]

At the end of the day, Fiba's decision is still ultimately up to a person/s "subjective" evaluation. Even with all the documentary requirements, there's still interpretation involved.

It's not black and white...there's room for gray. And it's a whiter shade for countries like Qatar.

[DAdmiral]

At the end of the day, Fiba's decision is still ultimately up to a person/s "subjective" evaluation. Even with all the documentary requirements, there's still interpretation involved.

It's not black and white...there's room for gray. And it's a whiter shade for countries like Qatar.

While true there is subjectivity, at the very least one should make a case using the criteria guidelines set by FIBA for exceptions , which are
1 # of years residency ( with emphasis on formative youth years.
2 # of years play in domestic league
3 other connections, ( particularly parental connction to someone from the country ( resident or citizen)

To apply for an exception for an NBA player with zero years residency is simply taking the piss.

[Sikatrix]

While at topic of factors for exception

It's not mere enrollment in a schiol that matters

Also it is not mere residency that matters

but it's establishing extended period of both educational and player development in one's formative youth development years

This is inplied as guidelines ( residency, education connection) are for an AGE cuttoff rule U16

I hope people get this.

Studying 7 years in grade school or High school in a country is totally different from playung 7 years from 25 yrs old in a pro league , totally different

Or you can be a "developing nation" like the Bahamas whove somehow leaped froged us already. Are we a "developing nation" too?

[ja.he]

Exactly, Abassi is a bad example to argue our case for Fil foreigners who have residency as an adult
Abassi was raised in Taiwan from 8 years old and has parental lineage to parents from Taiwan ( they are permanently residing in Taiwan and may even have citizenship).

Having said that Philips is a plausible case , assuming he established residency and schooling from 17 yrs old and has established connection with a parent or ancestor who has Philippine citizenship or residency

Using Qatar Harris exception may be more of a valid argument, but as a principle never good to use rare exceptiexceptions basis for ones case. Use the explicit guildlines

Curiously, there are FSAs playing in both high school division of the UAAP (u-16 and the junior proper). I learned that one of them is only 14 and might finish his high school there and, possibly, pursue his bachelor's degree here. He is currently in the u-16 team of one of the UAAP schools.

How plausible for this kid to be classified as a local in case he becomes a PH citizen?

[DAdmiral]

Or you can be a "developing nation" like the Bahamas whove somehow leaped froged us already. Are we a "developing nation" too?

I think you're referring to case supports the development of the sport in the country, merits for Jawato and Harris as host for an event that is a minor sport in their country.. Basketball isn't a minor sport in the Philippines

BTW Jawato was a resident of Indonesia as a child and has an Indonesian father

[Sikatrix]

I think you're referring to case supports the development of the sport in the country, merits for Jawato and Harris as host for an event that is a minor sport in their country.. Basketball isn't a minor sport in the Philippines

BTW Jawato was a resident of Indonesia as a child and has an Indonesian father

So basically we are being penalized because we love basketball. FIBA rules are great.

[live_evil]

FIBA rules are simple, actually: Show me the money.