Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[IPC]

Yeah... Kouame can't get local status if the main league here, the PBA can't make him as local.. and I think we have to forget him to be a local player.. it will hurt the development of Philippine basketball as whole than good.. if we push Kouame as local in the PBA, it will be a precedent to other teams in any leagues to do that... Imagine Ginebra will push brownlee to be a local player, SMB will push Boatwright to be a local player, etc ... Do you think it will be a good development to our basketball program, especially our local players as whole? Better focus on Fil-foreigners to push as a local players who are not eligible in FIBA...

So whose specific development will be affected? Give me specific examples or types of players. Will the players whose development will be affected be useful in FIBA? Do we have a surplus of those types of players?

[JAMSKIE]

how can you say its more than enough? Mike Philllips and Abassi are 2 different cases
Abassi is of Senegalese and American background, born in Japan, but grew up in Taiwan. i dont know where he went for Primary educ but he atleast went to Taiwanese HS were he learned bball.He has no Taiwanese blood, but grew up there. he had no legally way to get passport until later on. despite that, Taiwan league see him as a local.
Mike is a filam. He had chance to get passport but for whatever reason, he didnt till he got recruited by DLSU.

I am not saying I dont want Mike to get exempted. but i want to highlight they are 2 difference cases.

Abassi and Ange are far more similar. except Ange is not treated as a local by any professional league in the Philippines. if Pinoy leagues dont treat him as a local, why would the international league do that?

Or maybe Abassi has complied with the 10-year residency rule. Now, I'm not saying there is FIBA 10-year residency rule, A poster here said it doesn't exist in the FIBA rule book. I'm just saying that there's a possibility that among the provision for FIBA granting exemption on players that don't fall in the "passport before age 16" rule, is the 10-year residency requirement. It's more like an unwritten rule.

Remember that when Abassi first played with the Chinese Taipei national team in 2021, he was considered as a naturalized player. I think he was declared by FIBA as a local player sometime in 2023. Maybe 2023 was his 10th year residing in Taiwan.

I don't know, I'm just trying to conceptualize things.

[Metta]

So whose specific development will be affected? Give me specific examples or types of players. Will the players whose development will be affected be useful in FIBA? Do we have a surplus of those types of players?

It's the typical go-to argument to stoke xenophobia...the foreigners will take away the jobs of locals.

Here's a thought experiment though...

Lately, we've been having young FSAs in high school. What if somehow they get passports in time and become eligible, then several of them grow up to be at the level of Ange, Malik or even Momowei. And the more successful it is, the more there will be. It may completely change our basketball landscape the way Filams changed it.

Filams didn't take away all the jobs of homegrowns, but it forced everyone to step up their game and those who can't are in leagues like MPBL.

[C2Hamm]

Yeah... Kouame can't get local status if the main league here, the PBA can't make him as local.. and I think we have to forget him to be a local player.. it will hurt the development of Philippine basketball as whole than good.. if we push Kouame as local in the PBA, it will be a precedent to other teams in any leagues to do that... Imagine Ginebra will push brownlee to be a local player, SMB will push Boatwright to be a local player, etc ... Do you think it will be a good development to our basketball program, especially our local players as whole? Better focus on Fil-foreigners to push as a local players who are not eligible in FIBA...

people actually have to give a reason why someone needs to be naturalized. Ja.he probably knows the details on the how, but Pinoy businesspeople wont randomly pay to naturalized players just to play bball in the Philippines.i cant even imagine how thats economical for them.

right now our NP is Ange and JB only.

[JAMSKIE]

No such statement is expressly provided in the eligibility rules. It's more like covered in the umbrella phrase "significant links or connections", which is used for exempting players.

Which for me is very tricky in the sense that, it is very vague. What does it mean when one would say "significant links or connections"? What is the basis? Is this a matter of, "We (FIBA) decide who has 'significant links or connections' and who does not"?

It's like somebody saying, "The truth is what I say it is".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlEo8PQChG4

No wonder you got a Tyler Harris being declared by Qatar as a local player. I wonder what "significant links or connections" Harris has with Qatar basketball.

[C2Hamm]

Remember that when Abassi first played with the Chinese Taipei national team in 2021, he was considered as a naturalized player. I think he was declared by FIBA as a local player sometime in 2023. Maybe 2023 was his 10th year residing in Taiwan.

I dont want to look for it now, but you can check online. he moved to Taiwan since he was 8years old. So if he was born 1998 +8 = 2006 when he migrated. as per your post, he got excempted 2023. 2006 to 2023 is 17years there about (depends sa month). so he is legally living in Taiwan for 17years before he got excempted.

[C2Hamm]

Which for me is very tricky in the sense that, it is very vague. What does it mean when one would say "significant links or connections"? What is the basis? Is this a matter of, "We (FIBA) decide who has 'significant links or connections' and who does not"?

It's like somebody saying, "The truth is what I say it is".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlEo8PQChG4

No wonder you got a Tyler Harris being declared by Qatar as a local player. I wonder what "significant links or connections" Harris has with Qatar basketball.

no exact basis. its an exemption. so its wholly under the discretion of the secgen. most of the recent exemptions can easily defended by "exempting these players promotes basketball" to those countries. Qatar, Taiwan, and Bahamas. bball isnt a thing in those countries. adding whoever players they request does add more marketing for the sport.

[lem0nadi]

how can you say its more than enough? Mike Philllips and Abassi are 2 different cases
Abassi is of Senegalese and American background, born in Japan, but grew up in Taiwan. i dont know where he went for Primary educ but he atleast went to Taiwanese HS were he learned bball.He has no Taiwanese blood, but grew up there. he had no legally way to get passport until later on. despite that, Taiwan league see him as a local.
Mike is a filam. He had chance to get passport but for whatever reason, he didnt till he got recruited by DLSU.

I am not saying I dont want Mike to get exempted. but i want to highlight they are 2 difference cases.

Abassi and Ange are far more similar. except Ange is not treated as a local by any professional league in the Philippines. if Pinoy leagues dont treat him as a local, why would the international league do that?

Sorry I meant to say they had same situation in a way that education is the reason they become local. It's basically studying in their respective country would be a factor for their localization. It is been hardly emphasize that Gadiaga finished his studies in Taiwan enroute to his localization. Which is why I said that would be likely Mike's case. Finishing studies in PH then SBP trying to make him local. I could say that alone is more than enough for him to be local given that he already has filipino blood, which is his upperhand over Gadiaga.

Sure, we can say Gadiaga needed that Taiwan pro stint, because at the end of the day, he has no taiwanese blood, thus can't be considered as local by default at all, citizenship wise.

On the other hand, Mike has filipino blood, which means that even though the FIBA does not consider him a local, he is local in our country by the virtue of his Philippine Passport (which is unlikely for a foreign like Gadiaga to get if not for a naturalization btw)

I am not saying that they have the same path as in, but I am implying that their education is a big factor for their Localization.

Also, i also meant to say na mas lamang pa din si Mike over Gadiaga because meron syang filo blood. Meaning, he does not need to do all of what Gadiaga did (Living for how many years it is, being pro on their league). I think his filipino blood makes a case for that. Hence, a finished education and his 6 years residency here would be more than enough for him to be recogize as local.

This is also his upperhand over Lucero, Balunggay because those guys spent like 2-3 years on their respective schools. They did not attend those schools from the start, 1st year to last year. Which Mike has, hell he may even have that Masteral degree in DLSU.

[Rds]

It's the typical go-to argument to stoke xenophobia...the foreigners will take away the jobs of locals.

Here's a thought experiment though...

Lately, we've been having young FSAs in high school. What if somehow they get passports in time and become eligible, then several of them grow up to be at the level of Ange, Malik or even Momowei. And the more successful it is, the more there will be. It may completely change our basketball landscape the way Filams changed it.

Filams didn't take away all the jobs of homegrowns, but it forced everyone to step up their game and those who can't are in leagues like MPBL.

If we’re honest about it the good young bigs inow are mostly Filfors. However it forces our homegrowns to develop their games more. KQ was a 6’4 center in HS. But he had to develop into a PF with some perimeter skills in college because of the bigger Filfors and FSAs. Now he is performing well as an Asian import. If he didnt develop he would be a role player in the PBA.

[DAdmiral]

Lots of misconceptions here .
1.its not mere tenure of residency or mere studying in the country. Aside from extended period ( 5 years as a student resident) very important is if education is in formative years ( grade school or High school) , taking a masters degree for 1 or 2 years in mid 20s counts for nothing
This principle is implied in the exception is for an age cuttoff rule (U16), FIBA encourages and rewards players who are raised in their youth in the country ( its not adults having residency as a professional that matters)


2 Blood connection is not having similar common enthicity ( like Asian Taiwanese enthicity), but is in reference to a parental connection to either a citizen or a permanent resident. This is where Abasi is different from Kouame, as Kouame has no parental or family relationship to a Philippine citizen or resident Abasi does, his family are essentially permanent Taiwanese residents

Doiulthit son has a blood connection to a Philippine citizen. See the difference? It's not similar common enthicity
Abasi parents may be already Taiwanese citizens as well.

[Metta]

If we’re honest about it the good young bigs inow are mostly Filfors. However it forces our homegrowns to develop their games more. KQ was a 6’4 center in HS. But he had to develop into a PF with some perimeter skills in college because of the bigger Filfors and FSAs. Now he is performing well as an Asian import. If he didnt develop he would be a role player in the PBA.

In the same vein, if there were already FSAs in high school then, KQ might have transitioned sooner. Which is the case with Filfors coz their comp growing up has size.

[Rds]

Sorry I meant to say they had same situation in a way that education is the reason they become local. It's basically studying in their respective country would be a factor for their localization. It is been hardly emphasize that Gadiaga finished his studies in Taiwan enroute to his localization. Which is why I said that would be likely Mike's case. Finishing studies in PH then SBP trying to make him local. I could say that alone is more than enough for him to be local given that he already has filipino blood, which is his upperhand over Gadiaga.

Sure, we can say Gadiaga needed that Taiwan pro stint, because at the end of the day, he has no taiwanese blood, thus can't be considered as local by default at all, citizenship wise.

On the other hand, Mike has filipino blood, which means that even though the FIBA does not consider him a local, he is local in our country by the virtue of his Philippine Passport.


I am not saying that have the same path as in, but I am implying that their education is a big factor for their Localization.

Also, i also meant to say na mas lamang pa din si Mike over Gadiaga because meron syang filo blood. Meaning, he does not need to do all of what Gadiaga did (Living for how many years it is, being pro on their league). I think his filipino blood makes a case for that. Hence, a finished education would be more than enough for him to be recogize as local.

This is what’s regressive about our citizenship laws. We don’t even know if Mike’s parents are Filipino or the many case of grandparents or great grandparents being the ones who really got hold of their passport. The way it goes now you don’t even have to be born here or to be born to a citizen to be Filipino. If you have a living ancestor who held a passport sometime in his/her life they could reclaim their citizenship and pass it on to their offspring and so on and so forth. I don’t know any country with so lenient a citizenship law. If I have an ancestor who migrated to the US before WW2 and for some reason he is still alive today and as long as descendants linking to me are alive. I can be declared a Filipino. Even if none of my ancestors ever held a Filipino passport except that living WW2 era great great something parent.

Don’t you find that illogical? I dont have a link to the Philippines except for that WW2 era ancestor.

What if I dont have a Filipino parent but I was born and raised here? I am not a Filipino. I can only be a Filipino if the country’s lawmakers passes a law or some other convolutrd means.

Many countries have gone beyond so called blood to determine citizenship. If we follow that maybe we can claim Chinese, Malay, Indonesia or Bruneian citizenship. Blood connection doesnt really make sense. Culture and other ties to the country should be more important.

[lem0nadi]

Lots of misconceptions here .
1.its not mere tenure of residency or mere studying in the country. Aside from extended period ( 5 years as a student resident) very important is if education is in formative years ( grade school or High school) , taking a masters degree for 1 or 2 years in mid 20s counts for nothing
This principle is implied in the exception is for an age cuttoff rule (U16), FIBA encourages and rewards players who are raised in their youth in the country ( its not adults having residency as a professional that matters)


2 Blood connection is not having similar common enthicity ( like Asian Taiwanese enthicity), but is in reference to a parental connection to either a citizen or a permanent resident. This is where Abasi is different from Kouame, as Kouame has no parental or family relationship to a Philippine citizen or resident Abasi does, his family are essentially permanent Taiwanese residents

Mike might not satisfied that grade school or high school, but he finished his whole college years from 1st year until his Masteral/Doctorate year. And while finishing those degrees, he already satisfied that 5 years residency on that span, even spent 6.

I might say those are big factor for his localization, he just did not go here in the Philippines just to play basketball (where taking a masters degree is the usual way). He actually fully studied.

He just barely missed that before 16 passport rule by 1 year. Assuming he already got his passport at late 17 to early 18. FIBA can do consideration for that I hope.

[lem0nadi]

also for fuck's sake, the guy is already speaking using fucking fluent tagalog man. If that is not another factor to consider him a local, i dont know anymore. Hahahahaha.

[JAMSKIE]

Sorry I meant to say they had same situation in a way that education is the reason they become local. It's basically studying in their respective country would be a factor for their localization. It is been hardly emphasize that Gadiaga finished his studies in Taiwan enroute to his localization. Which is why I said that would be likely Mike's case. Finishing studies in PH then SBP trying to make him local. I could say that alone is more than enough for him to be local given that he already has filipino blood, which is his upperhand over Gadiaga.

Sure, we can say Gadiaga needed that Taiwan pro stint, because at the end of the day, he has no taiwanese blood, thus can't be considered as local by default at all, citizenship wise.

On the other hand, Mike has filipino blood, which means that even though the FIBA does not consider him a local, he is local in our country by the virtue of his Philippine Passport (which is unlikely for a foreign like Gadiaga to get if not for a naturalization btw)

I am not saying that they have the same path as in, but I am implying that their education is a big factor for their Localization.

Also, i also meant to say na mas lamang pa din si Mike over Gadiaga because meron syang filo blood. Meaning, he does not need to do all of what Gadiaga did (Living for how many years it is, being pro on their league). I think his filipino blood makes a case for that. Hence, a finished education and his 6 years residency here would be more than enough for him to be recogize as local.

This is also his upperhand over Lucero, Balunggay because those guys spent like 2-3 years on their respective schools. They did not attend those schools from the start, 1st year to last year. Which Mike has, hell he may even have that Masteral degree in DLSU.

But as some posters here point out, FIBA doesn't put much weight on Jus sanguinis or descent. For FIBA, it doesn't make that much sense that Mike Philipps has Filipino blood while Gadiaga a. k.a. "Abassi" has no Chinese or Taiwanese blood.