Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[lurklurk]

When I said that CTC might be onto something when he first used the Kai-JMF combo, almost everyone was doubtful it can work. But CTC made it work. Same thing by making an (inferior on paper) Brownlee as arguably our most effective/potent NP.

Now, when he says that Bennie can be a 3, I think CTC has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Bennie was on a legit solid NBA trajectory before multiple injuries derailed him in college. A solid nba player at 80-90% is still at a level far beyond non-nba players.

Very excellent point. The knee-jerk reaction is Bennie is obviously a 4, but when you hear someone like Cone (who is actually the one handling the team) declaring that he is a 3 and in the Brownlee-mold, the least someone can do is investigate and confirm.

Have to remember also, FIBA has a shorter 3-point line meaning shorter close-outs which then means lower average footspeed required. Putting 3 big bodies in Kai, Junmar and Bennie near and around the paint will also deter opponent paint touches and nullify any offensive rebound attempts. This can snowball into too many good things happening for us, i can expound further if needed.

[lurklurk]

I've been longing to have natural shooting guards/off-guards standing 6-foot-4/6-foot-5 at Gilas. Right now we only have Dwight Ramos as a shooting guard standing at least 6-foot-4, but I feel it is not enough. Dapat at least 2 yung shooting guards sa Gilas of such height. I hope either Bayla or Femi Edu pans out as national team materials playing as a natural shooting guard/off guard.

Imagine having a 6-foot-4/6-foot-5 version of Chris Newsome or CJ Perez. That would be gravvy.

We are wasting Ray Parks's prime i tell you

[lurklurk]

Very excellent point. The knee-jerk reaction is Bennie is obviously a 4, but when you hear someone like Cone (who is actually the one handling the team) declaring that he is a 3 and in the Brownlee-mold, the least someone can do is investigate and confirm.

Have to remember also, FIBA has a shorter 3-point line meaning shorter close-outs which then means lower average footspeed required. Putting 3 big bodies in Kai, Junmar and Bennie near and around the paint will also deter opponent paint touches and nullify any offensive rebound attempts. This can snowball into too many good things happening for us, i can expound further if needed.

I understand this 3-man group will display certain weaknesses but not those that are being raised here.

[IPC]

Very excellent point. The knee-jerk reaction is Bennie is obviously a 4, but when you hear someone like Cone (who is actually the one handling the team) declaring that he is a 3 and in the Brownlee-mold, the least someone can do is investigate and confirm.

Have to remember also, FIBA has a shorter 3-point line meaning shorter close-outs which then means lower average footspeed required. Putting 3 big bodies in Kai, Junmar and Bennie near and around the paint will also deter opponent paint touches and nullify any offensive rebound attempts. This can snowball into too many good things happening for us, i can expound further if needed.

I understand this 3-man group will display certain weaknesses but not those that are being raised here.

Scientific method, test the hypothesis? Hahahahaha. Sorry, just wanna bring up the scientific part. You said "investigate and confirm," e.

Immediately, I see from your statement on paint touches and offensive rebound attempts are less kickouts and less opponent possessions. All three are good defensive rebounders, so less possessions for the opponent. Less paint touches mean less attempts near the rim and maybe less kickouts.

As for weakness, Kai has taken care of that already when he improved his overall defense starting from the OQT. And I re-watched Bennie's PBA games and confirmed what you said about his team defense, he can competently rotate to shooters; it's mostly his interior defense and man-to-man D that underwhelmed me. It's just June Mar being an overall defensive liability, but Kai can cover for him.

We just need the proper scheme and supporting personnel at 1 and 2 for that lineup.

[IPC]

When I said that CTC might be onto something when he first used the Kai-JMF combo, almost everyone was doubtful it can work. But CTC made it work. Same thing by making an (inferior on paper) Brownlee as arguably our most effective/potent NP.

Now, when he says that Bennie can be a 3, I think CTC has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Bennie was on a legit solid NBA trajectory before multiple injuries derailed him in college. A solid nba player at 80-90% is still at a level far beyond non-nba players.

Bennie being a 3 is not really the concern, it's if the team can do enough defensively there when there's no interior defender on the floor, and whether we have enough defensive personnel at 4 and 5 to support lineups with Bennie at 3.

Overall, my concern is what happens defensively when Bennie's at 3 and Kai's off the floor. June Mar's a liability guarding PnR. Japeth turns 38 this month, and might retire soon. AJ has had a history of injuries, and has missed the OQT and two FIBA windows (four FIBA games). QMB's eligibility is unsure, and Mike and Ange are currently ineligible. Carl might need to improve on defense, and Mason definitely needs to improve on defense. Will a scheme be enough to help us out there?

I may be thinking about unlikely worst-case scenarios, but still, that could be concerning.

[lurklurk]

Scientific method, test the hypothesis? Hahahahaha. Sorry, just wanna bring up the scientific part. You said "investigate and confirm," e.

Immediately, I see from your statement on paint touches and offensive rebound attempts are less kickouts and less opponent possessions. All three are good defensive rebounders, so less possessions for the opponent. Less paint touches mean less attempts near the rim and maybe less kickouts.

As for weakness, Kai has taken care of that already when he improved his overall defense starting from the OQT. And I re-watched Bennie's PBA games and confirmed what you said about his team defense, he can competently rotate to shooters; it's mostly his interior defense and man-to-man D that underwhelmed me. It's just June Mar being an overall defensive liability, but Kai can cover for him.

We just need the proper scheme and supporting personnel at 1 and 2 for that lineup.

I am of the mind that everyone should validate their opinion before having a stance, but i also understand if "aint nobody got time for that". So i encourage people to at least do it if someone very credible like Tim Cone disagrees with the popular opinion.

Less kickout 3's and less opponent possessions are definitely among the good outcomes if BB is slotted at the 3. One particular kickout 3 which is said to be the most efficient shot in basketball is the offensive rebound+kickout 3, which will be harder to do against us since they cant get the offensive rebound in the first place. On the other hand, it will be the opposite for us since we will definitely dominate the offensive boards.

Less paint touches will lead to more midrange pullup for opponents, which is obviously inefficient. Post ups will be borderline impossible against us, with Fajardo as post defender and Kai freaking Sotto offering help defense omg with Scottie and Dwight digging at the ball. Opponent halfcourt sets will be limited to pindowns and/or other actions that occur in the perimeter which has to lead to a difficult jumpshot (efficient movement shooters are rare). We will play a lot of high drop i expect since there are 2 other bigs helping on the backside, will prevent pull-up shooters (like webster) get into a rhythm.

Defensively, Cone will not put Boatwright on an offensive player with a high foot speed. Even then, geting past Boatwright means having to deal with Kai and Junmar or Edu's height and length. Boatwright's size can still help against the likes of RHJ, which is someone he can just sag off of. Majority of the time, i expect Boatwright as a helper on defense spending a lot of time on the weakside guarding crosscourt passes and the hopefully rare kickouts. If he's targetted in the PNR, have him hedge until the POA guy recovers to the ball then rotate to the weakside and let a big help on the roll. Or he can also play high drop to prevent pull ups, lobs will be defended by the 2 bigs on the backside. Answer probably depends on the opposing team personnel.

[lurklurk]

Bennie being a 3 is not really the concern, it's if the team can do enough defensively there when there's no interior defender on the floor, and whether we have enough defensive personnel at 4 and 5 to support lineups with Bennie at 3.

Overall, my concern is what happens defensively when Bennie's at 3 and Kai's off the floor. June Mar's a liability guarding PnR. Japeth turns 38 this month, and might retire soon. AJ has had a history of injuries, and has missed the OQT and two FIBA windows (four FIBA games). QMB's eligibility is unsure, and Mike and Ange are currently ineligible. Carl might need to improve on defense, and Mason definitely needs to improve on defense. Will a scheme be enough to help us out there?

I may be thinking about unlikely worst-case scenarios, but still, that could be concerning.

You're overthinking this, if Kai is off the floor and we don't have another big aside from Junmar, then Bennie will play the 4. Malonzo or oftana will be at the 3 spot. Same as how Cone does it with Brownlee.

[IPC]

You're overthinking this, if Kai is off the floor and we don't have another big aside from Junmar, then Bennie will play the 4. Malonzo or oftana will be at the 3 spot. Same as how Cone does it with Brownlee.

I hope I'm overthinking. Hahahahaha. Maybe the uncertainty in this lineup.

Oftana's good enough in the perimeter defensively. Hope Malonzo turns out well there too. I've seen flashes from Malonzo, just hope he can do well consistently on D in the PBA and in FIBA. Defensive improvement from Carl, Mason, and Quiambao is a must too.

[lurklurk]

Surround Junmar and Bennie with the most athletic backcourt we have. Maybe Malonzo+Oftana+Newsome. Or go big with Malonzo+Oftana+Ramos. Kai will play 30 to 35 minutes on non-blowout games, we only have to field that 5-man group for 5-10 minutes.

[JAMSKIE]

We are wasting Ray Parks's prime i tell you

His willingness to play for the national team has always been suspect. One window he'll suit up with Gilas only to beg off in the next 2 windows.

[Silent Killer]

We are wasting Ray Parks's prime i tell you

It's the higher ups decision. If everyone watched let it fly podcast ep 1 where he's the guest, then everyone will know the answer.

chot prefers pogoy over brp jr.

And with smc sponsoring gilas, doubt he gets a call up with how things went when he wanted to play abroad.. knowing SBP, they're matampuhin..

Notice no SJ, ravenas and BRP jr. In recent articles about cone wanted to include more players? This are the people who dislike SBP's job (SJ), the pasimuno(thirdy), how the supposedly the starting back court of gilas left the PBA (Kiefer and BRP jr.)

[lurklurk]

His willingness to play for the national team has always been suspect. One window he'll suit up with Gilas only to beg off in the next 2 windows.

Can you help me jog my memories regarding this? The only controversial beg off i remember was back in 2019 or 2018 (pre-covid) when he declined Yeng-led team. Other times were due to injuries iirc.

[lurklurk]

It's the higher ups decision. If everyone watched let it fly podcast ep 1 where he's the guest, then everyone will know the answer.

chot prefers pogoy over brp jr.

And with smc sponsoring gilas, doubt he gets a call up with how things went when he wanted to play abroad.. knowing SBP, they're matampuhin..

Notice no SJ, ravenas and BRP jr. In recent articles about cone wanted to include more players? This are the people who dislike SBP's job (SJ), the pasimuno(thirdy), how the supposedly the starting back court of gilas left the PBA (Kiefer and BRP jr.)

This is the reason i'm more familiar with, hence my conclusion that we are wasting Parks's prime. Strictly basketball, he wouldn't be left out.

[ja.he]

This is the reason i'm more familiar with, hence my conclusion that we are wasting Parks's prime. Strictly basketball, he wouldn't be left out.

we can say all we want on Parks. we can say that he is not that physical but he knows his role. he has a high BBIQ and provides what a team needs on him and this is reflective on his performances throughout his career.

[ja.he]

Is it only me that that thinks most foreign coaches that handled Gilas are really successful on handling the team.

Rajko Toroman - the OG one. he handled a team with borderline PBA players (only Marcio is the bonafide star on this team outside the PBA reinforcements and Douthit). his team reached the semis for the first time in 24 years, reintroducing the Philippines into the Asian basketball scene.

Tab Baldwin - he handled a team with a bunch of has-beens, an out-of-shape player and a bunch of players that has no business in playing FIBA basketball. his team got the silver medal. six years later, he led a team with a bunch of college players, high schoolers and amateurs to an impressive run which includes beating Korea twice.

Tim Cone - he handled the team freshed from a failed Olympic bid attempt in the FIBA World Cup. his team was composed of PBA players but it was built in a rush. his team made a surprising run in the Asian Games, winning the gold. this success was followed by another surprising win against Latvia, followed an impressive win against New Zealand.