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Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

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  • Originally posted by ja.he View Post
    Why not try Justin Gutang or Dalph Panopio? Do they really think that they can find our better players only in the PBA?
    Originally posted by Giannis34GOD View Post
    Don't expect CTC will pick players outside PBA aside from Kai, AJ, Tamaya and Ramos... He's not familiar players who are not playing in the PBA... Another one is the politics... So don't expect the likes of Baltazar, Heading, RJ, etc....
    The thing is, the only current PBA players who have shown to be reliable for Gilas are June Mar (for a limited period, and he turns 35 in November), Newsome, JB, Navarro, Marcio (who's 37), Scottie (on defense), Japeth (sometimes, but he's 37) Castro (who's done), Terrence (who's currently injury-prone), and Abueva (who's 36). Maybe Oftana for rebounds and CJ in passing lanes.

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    • Originally posted by IPC View Post

      Why would we call back a 32-year-old who has had a history of being unreliable for Gilas?

      His assets are shooting and shot creation. Thing is, he's shot 26.4% from 3 in FIBA (although he did shoot 33% last World Cup), and his defense is suspect.
      I remember before CTC loves to have Pogoy w/ his team... So this is one of the reasons...

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      • And also don't expect CTC will pick ball dominant players such as Bolick, Kiefer, RJ, etc... He's not your coach that loves to have a player that wants to have the ball to be effective...

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        • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
          What's wrong with suggesting Stockton as Gilas prospect? Yes I know there's no guarantee he will carryover his good PBA game to the FIBA level, but there's also no guarantee that he will suck in the FIBA game either. That is why he needs to be tested in the FIBA level. There's absolutely no way of telling until we see him play for Gilas.
          Take the case of Calvin Abueva, prior to his stint with Gilas in 2015, who among us here at IBN had predicted that Abueva is going to do very well with Gilas in 2015? Maybe only a very few, or maybe none at all. But Abueva proved to be a workhorse for Gilas & was among the best players of Gilas in 2015.

          Of course I'm aware that there are lots of PBA players who are/were impressive in the PBA but couldnt carryover such performsnces in the FIBA game. But we can never gauge a certain player's potential in the national team unless that player gets tested in actual FIBA game.

          The thing is, a player who is among the PBA',s superstar or star will have a better chance at playing well in FIBA than an averaged PBA player.
          Originally posted by Silent Killer View Post
          Rather suggest players who you think will fit to fiba style. We saw how berto played well in fiba games.. they're lots of players better than stockton to suggest with..
          Pogoy, Wright, and Troy were/are star-level players in thr PBA. Thing is, they underperformed in FIBA. So did Gary David. And they kinda had the skills. Pogoy and David could shoot, Troy was a good hustle guy at 6'6", Wright was a good shot creator and passer. Those should be cautionary tales.

          At least Scottie and Newsome are good defenders and can initiate.

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          • Originally posted by IPC View Post



            Pogoy, Wright, and Troy were/are star-level players in thr PBA. Thing is, they underperformed in FIBA. So did Gary David. And they kinda had the skills. Pogoy and David could shoot, Troy was a good hustle guy at 6'6", Wright was a good shot creator and passer. Those should be cautionary tales.

            At least Scottie and Newsome are good defenders and can initiate.
            I get your point bro but kaya nga Wright, Pogoy, Garry David all got Gilas call up becoz of their impressive performances in the PBA. But their respective mettles were tested in the FIBA or international game & unfortunately they weren't able to carryover their good PBA game to the FIBA level. The thing is, we had no way of knowing until we saw how they played for Gilss in the FIBA game.

            As I've pointed out, prior to his stint with Gilas, not too many people expected Calvin Abueva to be effective as a Gilas player. Not too many people thought that Abueva can carryover his good PBA performance to the FIBA level. People point to his lack of outside shooting & him being undersized for the 3 position as his biggest downside. Yet Abueva proved that he was very much serviceable for the national team, at least in the Asian level.

            My take is, those players that are playing exceptionally well in the PBA should get a Gilas call up. Then let their games with Gilas justify if they deserved to be retained in the Gilas team or not. In short, their mettle must be tested in the FIBA game.

            We have no way of knowing how they perform in the FIBA level unless we try them.
            "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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            • Originally posted by IPC View Post

              I'm suggesting Mamu because his point-of-attack defense can translate. Stockton's a pretty good defender too.

              Now people are suggesting Justin Arana despite the fact that he exclusively plays center, and he's 6'7" in shoes with a 6'9" wingspan.

              I remember suggesting Arvin Tolentino because he's a 6'5" wing and getting told off by sir DenzelGreat8 because of that. Now, I find myself agreeing because Arvin's more of a volume shooter and a defensive liability, and defense is more important than scoring at the 3 if you won't be a star in FIBA. So I find myself wishing for Navarro, Lopez, Caelum, Konov, and Bayla at the wing instead because they're better defenders.
              I actually have high regard on two-way players - an offensive threat & at the same time has pretty decent defensive skills.

              As you've mentioned, while Arvin Tolentino is a solid offensive player, his defense is very much suspect hence guys like Dwight Ramos & Calvin Oftana would always have edge over him in the picking order of Gilas at the 3 spot.

              Dondon Hontiveros was serviceable to the Phi national team becoz he was a two-way player. He can shoot & he also had pretty decent defensive skills. I think Dondon got more playing time from coach Chot Reyes in the 2007 RP team than a Renren Ritualo becoz while Renren was the more explosive 3-pt shooter, Renren was a liability on defense.

              What I like about Stockton is that he's also a two-way player. His offense, especially his 3-pt shooting, has really improved in the recent PBA Philippine Cup.
              "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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              • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
                I actually have high regard on two-way players - an offensive threat & at the same time has pretty decent defensive skills.

                As you've mentioned, while Arvin Tolentino is a solid offensive player, his defense is very much suspect hence guys like Dwight Ramos & Calvin Oftana would always have edge over him in the picking order of Gilas at the 3 spot.

                Dondon Hontiveros was serviceable to the Phi national team becoz he was a two-way player. He can shoot & he also had pretty decent defensive skills. I think Dondon got more playing time from coach Chot Reyes in the 2007 RP team than a Renren Ritualo becoz while Renren was the more explosive 3-pt shooter, Renren was a liability on defense.

                What I like about Stockton is that he's also a two-way player. His offense, especially his 3-pt shooting, has really improved in the recent PBA Philippine Cup.
                As for Arvin, it's more of his position. I think at the 3 (and at 4 or 5), defense should be the primary consideration if you're not a star. Dwight's the only player we have right now who can defend the 3. Oftana regressed on defense with TNT (he's now getting blown by, can still be a decent system defender), and Malonzo's a bit up-and-down, and he's more of a help than man defender right now.

                I think you need a couple defenders at the 3, and at least one available player at the 4/5 as a foundation for a strong defense. The rest can be system defenders, although having good point-of-attack defenders like Newsome and Scottie help as well.

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                • Originally posted by Silent Killer View Post
                  and iskati is around that height

                  have you watch SJ’s game in KBL? Theirs a reason he was sign for $195k with his playmaking and defending..

                  funny you suggest as future but you quickly mention about “proven”

                  again don’t get deceive on any pba players performance

                  and 1 thing, is stockton fiba eligible?

                  Originally posted by zairex View Post
                  So we all base it on height which is just 3 inches difference. Stockton has never been a major contributor or reason his team wins games with tougher opponents. What will be our basis for him to be as good as Belangel
                  I actually think that SJ is a bigger LA Tenorio. He can facilitate and score, and he fights on defense. His 177cm (around 5'10") size is just an issue, but less so than LA being 5'8".

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                  • Originally posted by Rds View Post
                    This is just getting bad. Pogoy is not much of an initiator. Not a good defender and cannot shoot at the Fiba level. We are getting players who can neither defend nor score in Fiba.

                    As a fan Im hoping being served humble pie by Newsome and Banchero has made CJ consider the holes in his game as he says.

                    The only two way guys we have are Dwight and Newsome. And neither is a good outside shooter. We dont have another decent perimeter defender as CJ is worse than them and Scottie. Newsome will be outsized by the Euro wings and will be just a guard defender. Dwight will be outsized by euro wings. Oftanas perimeter defense will be exposed.

                    We dont have a tall wing defender. Our PF at 6’6 is a bit outsized and is our only decent “big” defender. Our prospects dont look good.

                    I would like to get Heading because he is a good shooter and fundamentally sound in other parts like defense and facilitating. But he is not a wing defender either. Navarro and possibly Malonzo are the only ones who are decent big wing defenders. The lack of big wings in the PBA is one reason. You need to develop tall wing defenders and I dont think there are other PBA players that fit the bill. You need to get from the UAAP and develop them.
                    In the current pool, only the following have translated well internationally:

                    Scottie: Defense, hustle
                    Newsome: Defense
                    Dwight: Defense, hustle, some shot creation
                    Malonzo: Shooting (36.4% from 3 in 11 FIBA games)
                    Carl: Shooting (44.4% from 3 in 16 FIBA games), some shot creation
                    Oftana: Rebounding
                    JB: Scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense
                    AJ: Defense, rebounding
                    Kai: Rim finishing, rebounding, some rim protection
                    CJ: Passing lane defense
                    June Mar: Interior scoring, rebounding
                    Japeth: Spot minutes, rim protection

                    Oftana will need to shoot better, as he's 33.3% from 3 in 8 FIBA games. He'll need to refocus energy on defense as well, since Dwight's our only wing defender. Defense is key at the 3-spot.

                    Mason has played two FIBA games, but played in the SEA Games. He didn't shoot as well as in the February 2023 window, and he wasn't a good defender. Good news is that he turns 20 this year, so he has time to improve.

                    Quiambao has played 9 FIBA games, but I can't assess him that well yet. He scored well last window, but that was against Hong Kong and Taiwan. His passing was just apparent in the 2021 FIBA Asia Cup. He needs to improve his defense.

                    Comment


                    • It's on the coaches to determine who among the players will translate well internationally. It takes a special eye and complete understanding of levels.

                      How is CTC when it comes to scouting/evaluating talent? I understand he was our head scout during Fiba World Cup and watched Angola games before we faced them.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TheRodster21 View Post
                        Kai I think works best if he does a deep drop and doesn’t have to guard out on the perimeter especially in pnr situations, he seems more effective in that Rudy Gobert role of sticking under the basket and swatting\affecting shots, this puts more pressure though on having better wing defenders which means guys like newsome, Dwight will have to fight through screens and really glue to the ball handler. Realistically KQ isn’t a good defender on the perimeter and Carl has had issues guarding the perimeter in the past
                        I think Quiambao and Carl just need to be good in a scheme. Less pressure when a guy like AJ (and hopefully Kai) is behind them, and they have good defenders next to them like Scottie, Dwight, and Newsome.

                        As for PnR defense, we need more than just Scottie, Dwight, and Newsome when AJ is out. Oftana and CJ aren't exactly that good on that end of the floor (Oftana can follow his man in FIBA, can't prevent blow-bys; CJ's good in passing lanes, but easily gets blown by), so onus on them to focus their energy on defense in FIBA settings. Otherwise, maybe we can get back guys like Navarro and maybe Lopez (he's improved laterally), and even recruit guys like Bayla and Harris.

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                        • Originally posted by CoJ View Post
                          SMC will be in for a rude awakening this OQT, an old brownlee and cone’s limited experience outside asia is a recipe for disaster. They are too blinded by that Asian Games gold
                          though let’s be honest, none of us are expecting a miracle this OQT, just hope that it wont be as embarrassing similar to 2019 FIBA WC
                          Hopefully, after the OQT, they can adjust the roster plan and reassess our needs. This roster still has holes, especially without AJ.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Metta View Post
                            It's on the coaches to determine who among the players will translate well internationally. It takes a special eye and complete understanding of levels.

                            How is CTC when it comes to scouting/evaluating talent? I understand he was our head scout during Fiba World Cup and watched Angola games before we faced them.
                            Cone did evaluate players in this video:



                            Scottie and Newsome: Not the best scorers, but great defenders
                            Carl: Could be a superstar for Gilas by 2027, energetic on defense, same skillset as Kerby Raymundo
                            KQ: Could play and defend multiple positions
                            Kai: Dominant in practice, pressure to be one of the main guys, perfect fit offensively and defensively
                            AJ: Primary bigman stopper
                            Boatwright: Athletic at 6'10", lights-out shooter, can play inside and out, can play with Kai AND June Mar at 3 (I personally don't know about this one)
                            Oftana: Big wing at 6'5"-6'6"
                            Last edited by IPC; 06-22-2024, 03:51 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by IPC View Post

                              Cone did evaluate players in this video:



                              Scottie and Newsome: Not the best scorers, but great defenders
                              Carl: Could be a superstar for Gilas by 2027, energetic on defense, same skillset as Kerby Raymundo
                              KQ: Could play and defend multiple positions
                              Kai: Dominant in practice, pressure to be one of the main guys, perfect fit offensively and defensively
                              AJ: Primary bigman stopper
                              Boatwright: Athletic at 6'10", lights-out shooter, can play inside and out, can play with Kai AND June Mar at 3 (I personally don't know about this one)
                              Oftana: Big wing at 6'5"-6'6"
                              Is there another link, that link is dead

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                              • Originally posted by TheRodster21 View Post
                                Is there another link, that link is dead
                                Edited the URL. Sorry about that.

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