Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[one21guns]

Among the type of players in the Philippine national teams in the past that underperformed in actual FIBA games are the go-to-guy/scorer type of 2-guards/shooting guards. I remember Mark Caguioa in the 2007 FIBA Asia Championship being among the top 3 players of the Phi team & perhaps the Phi basketball's best 2-guard, yet in the 2007 FIBA Asia Championship tournament proper Caguioa was a huge dissapointment especially on the crucial games of the Phi team. Caguioa was playing well in the pre-tournament games that the team played, especially in the 2007 Jones Cup & the 2007 Manila Invitational Cup, yet in the tournament proper he sucked big time which was a huge factor in the Philippines dismal 9th place finish in that tournament.

Obviously, David & Caguioa couldn't carryover their respective explosive games in the PBA to the FIBA level.

I wonder what was the reason behind? Is that the case of Caguioa & David getting intimated by the taller wing defenders they faced in the FIBA game?

Caguioa though averaged 19.8 points per game and 3.4 rebounds in the 2005 FIBA Asia Champions Cup. He was also effective offensively against taller and more athletic guards from other teams like the USA AIA team during prep tourneys iirc. His quick first step served him well when guarded by taller wings. About Gary David, yes I absolutely agree. Can’t contribute anything positive except for that Kazakhstan game and a huge liability on defense. Both national team iterations they were on was coached by Chot. So there.

[TheRodster21]

Among the type of players in the Philippine national teams in the past that underperformed in actual FIBA games are the go-to-guy/scorer type of 2-guards/shooting guards. I remember Mark Caguioa in the 2007 FIBA Asia Championship being among the top 3 players of the Phi team & perhaps the Phi basketball's best 2-guard, yet in the 2007 FIBA Asia Championship tournament proper Caguioa was a huge dissapointment especially on the crucial games of the Phi team. Caguioa was playing well in the pre-tournament games that the team played, especially in the 2007 Jones Cup & the 2007 Manila Invitational Cup, yet in the tournament proper he sucked big time which was a huge factor in the Philippines dismal 9th place finish in that tournament.

Fast forward 6 years from then, it was the turn of Garry David to suck with Gilas in the 2013 FIBA Asia Championship. This to think that David was the best 2-guard/shooting guard of Phi basketball at that time. Yung nag-aapoy na mga kamay ni Garry David that we were seeing in his PBA games were nowhere to be found in the 2013 FIBA Asia Championship. David was really the dissapointment in the Gilas team at that time.

Obviously, David & Caguioa couldn't carryover their respective explosive games in the PBA to the FIBA level.

I wonder what was the reason behind? Is that the case of Caguioa & David getting intimated by the taller wing defenders they faced in the FIBA game?

I think scorers at least internationally need to be athletic or have some advantage physically in some way. Luka for example not athletic in the traditional speed sense but super strong and has great agility, ability to change pace combined with 6’8-9 size that makes him hard to stop. Most scorers for Gilas have been undersized or not athletic enough\ don’t have any advantage. I think recently Jordan Clarkson was the best scorer, because of his speed and skill though we could argue efficiency but I can’t really blame him since he didn’t have much help but he still averaged 26 per game

[IPC]

I think scorers at least internationally need to be athletic or have some advantage physically in some way. Luka for example not athletic in the traditional speed sense but super strong and has great agility, ability to change pace combined with 6’8-9 size that makes him hard to stop. Most scorers for Gilas have been undersized or not athletic enough\ don’t have any advantage. I think recently Jordan Clarkson was the best scorer, because of his speed and skill though we could argue efficiency but I can’t really blame him since he didn’t have much help but he still averaged 26 per game

Our best local scorers in the past decade were Castro and Terrence. Both are quick and good shooters, but undersized. Otherwise, it's the NP like Douthit, Blatche, JC, JB.

[TheRodster21]

Our best local scorers in the past decade were Castro and Terrence. Both are quick and good shooters, but undersized. Otherwise, it's the NP like Douthit, Blatche, JC, JB.

Also I think the new naturalized player Boatwright is also someone in that same line. Probably going to be tasked with the scoring load. I looked at his scouting report on draftexpress and his wingspan is less than listed height, also his defense apparently isnt good

[IPC]

Also I think the new naturalized player Boatwright is also someone in that same line. Probably going to be tasked with the scoring load. I looked at his scouting report on draftexpress and his wingspan is less than listed height, also his defense apparently isnt good

Yeah, Bennie's a scorer.

As for defense, that's why I had concerns on him being JB's successor. We don't have enough defensive bigs to hide him (as of the current pool). We will have to compensate on scheme to help him out there, or recruit better defensive bigs among the locals.

[Giannis34GOD]

OT: Pelita Jaya led by Brownlee will start their BCL campaign today vs Hiroshima (B League champs) today... Hope JB will not be hurt before coming to Manila for OQT preparations... Let's see if JB can lead PJ a BCL championship... Anyway Shabab Al Ahli of Dubai replaced supposed PBA representative for BCL spot as host country... Another blunder by the PBA...

https://www.fiba.basketball/bclasia/2024/games

[TheRodster21]

Yeah, Bennie's a scorer.

As for defense, that's why I had concerns on him being JB's successor. We don't have enough defensive bigs to hide him (as of the current pool). We will have to compensate on scheme to help him out there, or recruit better defensive bigs among the locals.

They should try getting Michael Phillips as a local. If Edu is healthy, plus Kai and Phillips, the big man spot won’t have as big of a hole defensively

[IPC]

They should try getting Michael Phillips as a local. If Edu is healthy, plus Kai and Phillips, the big man spot won’t have as big of a hole defensively

As for currently eligible players, maybe guys like Kemark Carino can suffice, until Mike Phillips is a local.

My worry is if AJ is hurt. Another is, can Kai improve to the point where he can at least cover for his teammates on rotations? Kai has until JB's retirement to improve on defense, so that at least we don't give up points every other possession.

[Joe Yabuki]

Kenmark should def start getting some reps for defense at least, maybe if we can try to get Bates as a local that would help as well

[magic_chiongson]

Yeah, Bennie's a scorer.

As for defense, that's why I had concerns on him being JB's successor. We don't have enough defensive bigs to hide him (as of the current pool). We will have to compensate on scheme to help him out there, or recruit better defensive bigs among the locals.

he's not JB's successor, he's someone similar to a potential NP that the SBP previously targeted but got injured (cam oliver)

[JAMSKIE]

Caguioa though averaged 19.8 points per game and 3.4 rebounds in the 2005 FIBA Asia Champions Cup. He was also effective offensively against taller and more athletic guards from other teams like the USA AIA team during prep tourneys iirc. His quick first step served him well when guarded by taller wings. About Gary David, yes I absolutely agree. Can’t contribute anything positive except for that Kazakhstan game and a huge liability on defense. Both national team iterations they were on was coached by Chot. So there.

I think Caguioa also fared well in the 2007 Jones Cup. As I've said, he did well in the pre-2007 FIBA Asia Championship tournaments & tune up games only to struggle in the 2007 FIBA Asia Championship tournament proper. Maybe nagkataon lang talaga that he was out of his element during the tournament proper.

[Silent Killer]

I think Caguioa also fared well in the 2007 Jones Cup. As I've said, he did well in the pre-2007 FIBA Asia Championship tournaments & tune up games only to struggle in the 2007 FIBA Asia Championship tournament proper. Maybe nagkataon lang talaga that he was out of his element during the tournament proper.

or already scouted. remember chot put all his card in jones cup instead of hiding it?

[JAMSKIE]

or already scouted. remember chot put all his card in jones cup instead of hiding it?

I can't blame coach Chot for somewhat showing all his cards in the 2007 Jones Cup. RP team at the time was marred by injuries to players from time to time going into the 2007 FIBA Asia Championship. For one, Danny Seigle wasn't able to suit up in the 2007 Jones Cup becoz of a lingering foot/leg injury. The problem with "hiding" player/s during pre-tournament games to throw off opposing teams' scouts is that it may have a detrimental effect on team chemistry/cohesion, especially if the pre-tournament is held within close proximity with the actual tournament. The 2007 Jones Cup was held a few weeks before the 2007 Asia Championship. I think the RP team at that time had to make extra efforts to achieve enough chemistry/cohesion among the players, hence "hiding" a key player like a Mark Caguioa wasn't advisable.

Also, in pre-tournament games, while the main goal is to improve team chemistry/cohesion & give exposure to your players, you also need to "win" as many games as possible, especially if you're coaching the Philiippine national team where the fans are demanding & inconsiderate. So if you're the coach, while you treat those pre-tournament or tune-up games as opportunity to improve the team's chemistry/cohesion & getting the players get used to the FIBA game environment, you also have to deliver some wins or else Pinoy fans would ridicule you. So its a balancing act.

"Hiding" your players is sometimes a double-edge sword.

[Silent Killer]

I can't blame coach Chot for somewhat showing all his cards in the 2007 Jones Cup. RP team at the time was marred by injuries to players from time to time going into the 2007 FIBA Asia Championship. For one, Danny Seigle wasn't able to suit up in the 2007 Jones Cup becoz of a lingering foot/leg injury. The problem with "hiding" player/s during pre-tournament games to throw off opposing teams' scouts is that it may have a detrimental effect on team chemistry/cohesion, especially if the pre-tournament is held within close proximity with the actual tournament. The 2007 Jones Cup was held a few weeks before the 2007 Asia Championship. I think the RP team at that time had to make extra efforts to achieve enough chemistry/cohesion among the players, hence "hiding" a key player like a Mark Caguioa wasn't advisable.

Also, in pre-tournament games, while the main goal is to improve team chemistry/cohesion & give exposure to your players, you also need to "win" as many games as possible, especially if you're coaching the Philiippine national team where the fans are demanding & inconsiderate. So if you're the coach, while you treat those pre-tournament or tune-up games as opportunity to improve the team's chemistry/cohesion & getting the players get used to the FIBA game environment, you also have to deliver some wins or else Pinoy fans would ridicule you. So its a balancing act.

"Hiding" your players is sometimes a double-edge sword.

that’s why chot learned his lessons and not show his cards from the get go

[JAMSKIE]

I think a national team coach can hide 1 or 2 of his key player/s in a certain pre-tournament if there is already an established chemistry in the team.

For instance 3 to 4 years from now (Gilas being expected to have established chemistry/cohesion by then), coach Tim Cone can opt not to field a Jamie Malonzo or a Calvin Oftana in a particular pocket tournament to throw off scouts, and its not like those scouts don't know how Malonzo or Oftana plays. It's more on hiding from scouts how Gilas would play with Malonzo or Oftana in tow.