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Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

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  • Originally posted by Metta View Post
    The Triangle does not require a traditional PG or even an elite PG. The Phil Jackson Bulls and Lakers had Kerr, Paxson, Fisher, Shaw etc. The system sets up the offense.

    That being the case, PGs that can be considered does not have to be elite playmakers, but instead elite at something else (defense, shooting or size, etc). Scottie is a good example.
    Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    @Metta

    But coach Tim had a Johnny Abarrientos (both excellent player & scorer) at Alaska during the mid & late 90's. That was the height of the vaunted triangle offense being run by coach Tim. I think coach Tim at Alaska was more successful during that era as compared to Ginebra mentored by coach Tim at present.

    Remember that the triangle being run by coach Tim at present is a modified one. It's no longer the same triangle he used to run at Alaska in the 90's.

    Agree with you, the triangle ran by coach Phil Jackson at Chicago & LA didn't really have exceptional playmaking point guards.
    Thing is, the triangle of the Bulls did have good initiators like Pippen, Jordan, and later Kobe and Lamar Odom.

    Here, it was Abarrientos with Alaska, Barroca and Joe Devance with B-Meg/San Mig, and now LA, JDV, Scottie, and Brownlee with Ginebra.

    You still need a decent initiator, even if it's from another position.

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    • Originally posted by IPC View Post



      Thing is, the triangle of the Bulls did have good initiators like Pippen, Jordan, and later Kobe and Lamar Odom.

      Here, it was Abarrientos with Alaska, Barroca and Joe Devance with B-Meg/San Mig, and now LA, JDV, Scottie, and Brownlee with Ginebra.

      You still need a decent initiator, even if it's from another position.
      Scottie is not really a good initiator. He knows the system and he knows his GSM teammates but his handles are still sub par for a PG. His drives are almost always straight line drives. He is like a smaller Westbrook but with better outside shooting but a bit lesser athleticism. Against bigger comp he cant camp in the free throw line to break the zone.

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        If coach Tim Cone described Mason Amos as a 6-foot-7 Allan Caidic, maybe if he sees Alex Konov's game, coach Tim will describe Konov as a 6-foot-7 Bogs Adornado.

        Konov seems to have a quick release on his shots.
        "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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        • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
          @Metta

          But coach Tim had a Johnny Abarrientos (both excellent player & scorer) at Alaska during the mid & late 90's. That was the height of the vaunted triangle offense being run by coach Tim. I think coach Tim at Alaska was more successful during that era as compared to Ginebra mentored by coach Tim at present.

          Remember that the triangle being run by coach Tim at present is a modified one. It's no longer the same triangle he used to run at Alaska in the 90's.

          Agree with you, the triangle ran by coach Phil Jackson at Chicago & LA didn't really have exceptional playmaking point guards.
          Johnny is one of our all-time greats, he would have been good in any type of system. It was just a luxury that Alaska had him.

          But, the triangle per se, eliminates the need for such an elite PG. Phil Jackson even preferred guard-like wings handling the ball a lot (Pippen, Shaw, Harper, Odom) because it's easier to see over the defense and make short passes. Shorter players will have to work harder to make short passes.

          But, there is no need for a designated initiator in the triangle because everyone has to know how to initiate. That's why it's hard to master., everyone has to know everything.

          Some of the tweaks that Cone did is to include longer shots (threes). That tweak didn't really create a need for an elite PG (although a knockdown shooter PG will of course be a plus).

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          • Originally posted by Metta View Post

            Johnny is one of our all-time greats, he would have been good in any type of system. It was just a luxury that Alaska had him.

            But, the triangle per se, eliminates the need for such an elite PG. Phil Jackson even preferred guard-like wings handling the ball a lot (Pippen, Shaw, Harper, Odom) because it's easier to see over the defense and make short passes. Shorter players will have to work harder to make short passes.

            But, there is no need for a designated initiator in the triangle because everyone has to know how to initiate. That's why it's hard to master., everyone has to know everything.

            Some of the tweaks that Cone did is to include longer shots (threes). That tweak didn't really create a need for an elite PG (although a knockdown shooter PG will of course be a plus).
            The jury is still out on how coach Tim's modified triangle offense would work in the Asia-Oceania level & of course world level as well. Although, honestly I would already be happy & satisfied Gilas winning the gold in next year's FIBA Asia Cup. I'm confident Gilas can do it even if Australia looms as Gilas stumbling block on its route to the gold medal. Of course I'm not underestimating the other teams like Japan, Lebanon, China, New Zealand.

            Coach Tim got his momentum with that historic basketball gold medal in last year's Asian Games. But such feat is a bit tarnished with the fact that a No. of Asia-Oceania powerhouse teams weren't in the Asian Games (Australia, New Zealand, Lebanon) or other teams which played there did not play full force (Iran, Japan & South Korea).
            "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

            Comment


            • Guys, is point guard Alec Stockton of Converge worth a consideration for Gilas, maybe not now but perhaps next year?

              He has been scoring well for Converge so far this conference. But how is Stockton's playmaking?

              At 6-foot-2, he obviously is a good size point guard & he's athletic. I think he was known as a decent defender in college playing for FEU.
              "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
                Guys, is point guard Alec Stockton of Converge worth a consideration for Gilas, maybe not now but perhaps next year?

                He has been scoring well for Converge so far this conference. But how is Stockton's playmaking?

                At 6-foot-2, he obviously is a good size point guard & he's athletic. I think he was known as a decent defender in college playing for FEU.
                Yes. A is 6'2 PG is rare for us and he has good mobility on offense and defense. However, his handles are iffy. It was his consecutive turnovers that lost a game for them where they led by 20.

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                • Originally posted by Rds View Post

                  Yes. A is 6'2 PG is rare for us and he has good mobility on offense and defense. However, his handles are iffy. It was his consecutive turnovers that lost a game for them where they led by 20.
                  That's a red flag right there. A point guard with shaky handles won't be a good national team prospect. Kung sa PBA level shaky na yung handles nya, then what more in the higher level FIBA game.

                  It would be somewhat tolerable if Stockton is just 21 or 22 yrs of age (there is time/chance to improve his handles), problem is he is about to turn 26 already.
                  "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiZg...VybyBidWNrZXRz

                    If coach Tim Cone described Mason Amos as a 6-foot-7 Allan Caidic, maybe if he sees Alex Konov's game, coach Tim will describe Konov as a 6-foot-7 Bogs Adornado.

                    Konov seems to have a quick release on his shots.
                    He does have a quick release and shoots in one motion. Hard to close out on that. Idk about his shooting percentages, but in time I believe he’s poised to be an elite shooter. I hope he gets a call up for the Gilas pool sooner than later.
                    Never look too far ahead. You might stumble on a block right in front of you.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
                      Guys, is Bolick really a good playmaker or he is just a point guard with such a lethal offensive game? Becoz if Bolick isn't really a good playmaker then I think he's not the point guard we are looking for for Gilas.

                      There are point guards kasi who are/were excellent playmakers but isn't/wasn't really scoring threats (Hector Calma, Dindo Pumaren). And there are those who are excellent playmakers & legit scoring threats like Johnny Abarrientos & Jimmy Alapag.

                      I think it's really a great luxury having a point guard who is a very good playmaker & dangerous scoring threat as well. It has a synergistic effect.
                      He's an underrated playmaker IMO. He attracts defenses which often leads to an open teammate even if he doesn't get credited for the assist. Ideally he comes off the bench. Well ideally Scottie too moves to the bench but we don't have anyone better so he's starting by default

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post

                        That's a red flag right there. A point guard with shaky handles won't be a good national team prospect. Kung sa PBA level shaky na yung handles nya, then what more in the higher level FIBA game.

                        It would be somewhat tolerable if Stockton is just 21 or 22 yrs of age (there is time/chance to improve his handles), problem is he is about to turn 26 already.

                        There's another young 6'2 pure pg who got better handles,and a good 3 pt shooter,name is Panopio.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ARMIR View Post


                          There's another young 6'2 pure pg who got better handles,and a good 3 pt shooter,name is Panopio.
                          Panopio's stats at Cal State-Bakersfield isn't impressive. But since he's young, I want to give him a try. There are players who are late bloomers. Hope Panopio would be one of them.
                          "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post

                            Panopio's stats at Cal State-Bakersfield isn't impressive. But since he's young, I want to give him a try. There are players who are late bloomers. Hope Panopio would be one of them.
                            IRC he had some problems with the physicality of the Fiba game in the U16 (U18?). It might have been the reason a shorter and less talented Abadiano eventually had more minutes than him IRC.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rds View Post

                              IRC he had some problems with the physicality of the Fiba game in the U16 (U18?). It might have been the reason a shorter and less talented Abadiano eventually had more minutes than him IRC.
                              Didn't he joined the team late and had sporadic minutes, couldn't get into rhythm? To be honest our shoot first PGs annoyed the hell out of me in the both youth tournaments

                              Comment


                              • if you check the current gilas “12” 4 players are from the same youth batch (kai, edu, carl and kquiam) though kquiam didn’t play sa youth team with them.. that batch could be our golden generation.. once dave ildefonso and panopio got called up in the future it will be half from that age group..
                                Philippine Malditas to FIFA Womens World Cup 2023

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