Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[C2Hamm]

"how is phillips a product of PH basketball?"

- He plays college basketball in the Philippines. That's part of his basketball heritage. He may have started playing basketball in the US but he came here in the Philippines and started training with DLSU at age 17. His whole college basketball career is in the Philippines. Isn't enough reason to consider him as a PH basketball product?

i hope its enough for FIBA. i agree its part of his basketball heritage but personally, no. he has been in the Philippines for what, 3 years? so someone is a product of that countries program already in 3 years time?

if I was FIBA, id excempted him, but because there are other factors favoring him as well. not just because he has been playing ball for 3 years in 1 country.

[Rds]

To be fair with Junemar, he is still the best postup big man of the country. He uses his heft well, has a soft touch and can do post fadeaways. His pick and roll defense has already improved to the point where he is playable at stretches, unlike the time when he would give up fouls to keep up with driving guards against his pick and roll defense. The continuous exposure this year to international basketball has truly helped. We can only imagine if he had this continuous exposure to international, especially when he was younger. Having to consistently guard small centers, imports with height restrictions and offenses that are iso-centric in the PBA contributed to his current state.

I was a big JF fan. I stopped watching the PBA after the influx of Filfors. You could see they were trying to do all they can so the homegrowns wouldnt be overwhelmed. Like allow more physicality to offset the Filfors advantage in athleticism. When I heard there was a 6’9-6’10 guy who was going to be drafted I got curious. When I heard this guy dominated Manila schools with his school I got more curious.

I started watching the PBA again because of Junemar. I thought hey this is a homegrown who could matchup with the Filfors.He did not start out with a bang partly from Ping accidentally hurting his badoodles or something. I got more excited when he performed well in the WC. The. in the season ending conf he came out faster and more explosive.

Then the next season started and I saw what SMB wanted from JF. That began the long fall of the guy. He became slower and slower. I think anybody who saw an SMB game particularly in the later years of their streak would see how slow the guy was. It boggles the mind how a 260 or 270 slow guy would play 40 minutes but have any foot speed to stop a Jayson Castro in the 4th qtr.

Basically the PBA adjusted so that JF would not be abused defensively. I had high hopes when Tab took over and mentioned he would feature him. In their training camp it eas mentioned he was losing weight. So I was still happy when he played a bit better defensively against NZ.

But Tabs stint was shortlived. JF came back to his PBA weight and was never asked to defend again in Fiba. It helped he developed a very strong one hander that was effective even against Oz. But that was the peak.

His weight and all the playing time came back to bite him. He had an on and off again leg fracture. Im not sure if it healed or they just made him drink pain killers. The guy broke his leg going for a fastbreak layup with nobody around him in practice.

He is in better condition now yes. But if you insist on playing him as a post presence he will need to be still heavy. At this weight he will not trust planting much force on the once injured leg. His laterals are doomed.

If JF were indeed decent defensively we wouldnt need Kouame to play much. Fact is JFs drop coverage can be abused in PNRs and it was abused a few times against Bahrain. Much as I am a fan of JF I have to admit that because of his injury I cant expect him to move his legs much on defense. Because of that I think JF at best should just be a supporting role moving forward. This is why we need a center at least of Kouames caliber as NP.

[ja.he]

i hope its enough for FIBA. i agree its part of his basketball heritage but personally, no. he has been in the Philippines for what, 3 years? so someone is a product of that countries program already in 3 years time?

if I was FIBA, id excempted him, but because there are other factors favoring him as well. not just because he has been playing ball for 3 years in 1 country.

4 years to be exact. He arrived here in 2019. He has 3 seasons of eligibility remaining, including this season. His last year of UAAP eligibility will be on 2025 - 6 years when he first arrived in DLSU. That 6 years, 5 seasons of playing eligibility I am talking about are part of his formative years in basketball. I consider formative years of basketball into two segments - high school and college.

We think differently here - you think of the present while I think ahead of time.

[C2Hamm]

4 years to be exact. He arrived here in 2019. He has 3 seasons of eligibility remaining, including this season. His last year of UAAP eligibility will be on 2025 - 6 years when he first arrived in DLSU. That 6 years, 5 seasons of playing eligibility I am talking about are part of his formative years in basketball. I consider formative years of basketball into two segments - high school and college.

We think differently here - you think of the present while I think ahead of time.

brothers arrive last quarter of 2019. mag 4 years plang. based on the topic, im thinking as if im FIBA and im not Filipino. we are seeking exemption, means we are at the mercy of the secgen. doesnt matter if we tick all the boxes. if he doenst want to, then we dont get the green light. so the best we can do, is give a compelling case. thats it. not you, but i see a lot of people in socmed saying as long as someone stays in the RP for 5 years ok na. or if they study in the Philippines and get drafted in the PBA, we can get exemption. there are 2 problems there 1) if consistently thats how to get a player who failed to get a passport prior to 16th year bday, that will make the passport rule next to useless. obviously FIBA will not allow that 2) having this mindset makes developing local players not a priority. why should we? we can excempt filfors?
so yes, i think ahead of time. ano ka ba, i've been talking with you guys for years

[DAdmiral]

OT question for the legal people here , what is the naturalization process for Tyler Tio went through and how is it different from Brownlee ?

is it also via congress also ?

[zuma169]

I am sorry but I am just disappointed that literally no one is mentioning our own professional league as part of the overall Gilas program.. what I mean by this is yes the PBA has major flaws in its system that needs to be addressed badly.. so we need to find ways for these flaws to be addressed by the PBA.. alam ninyo, the PBA is an established league recognized by a lot of international folks and FIBA.. kapag nakita na most of our Gilas players are from foreign leagues because of foreign recruitment and development, sinasabi ko sa inyo, FIBA will raise eyebrows because you have a 45+ year old league and yet halos walang players for the national team.. dba you guys preach local development as part of FIBA's vision?

that is why we need to take steps to have progressive changes in the PBA.. parang galit na galit kayo kina MArcial, Chua, Vargas, etc... I am telling you, the PBAs purpose is to PROFIT (obvious naman to all leagues around the world) and to give JOBS to Filipinos... not just for basketball players but all staff and personel running the basketball organization.. yes philippine basektball development can be a purpose as well.. that is why that should also be a part of our ranting and planning here.. isama naman PBA because quite frankly that is where the bulk of are resources are..

Japan's national team are mostly from their B.League because yes the b league is a very progressive league.. but remember, that league has numerous tumultuous times and dba they were also suspended by FIBA? they just got their acts together and formed the b. league and it has been a success.. the way I see it, hindi naman sila umaasa kina Watanabe, Hachimura, Baba.. that is what the PBA should be.. we are not there yet but we need to act and find ways for the PBA to be like that... and let's face it, we are really a poor country.. malaking bagay yan..

and let us not belittle the capabilities of the UAAP/NCAA, dba parati sinasabi dito that Tab and the 2021 Gilas version composed of collegiate standouts did well against serbia, korea, etc... bakit kaya? just because of Tab? yes Tab is insturmental.. but as a Maestro if the musicians and instruments are not in tune, balewala din un dba? that is because of the Talent he has.. and where did they come from? the collegiate leagues.. ako nga at times I really do think UAAP/NCAA is better than the PBA.. kasi for me the pressure to win it all is greater in the collegiate ranks than in the PBA... that is also an integral part in development, more than the skills, is to perform in the biggest stages, in the brightest of lights..

[ja.he]

brothers arrive last quarter of 2019. mag 4 years plang. based on the topic, im thinking as if im FIBA and im not Filipino. we are seeking exemption, means we are at the mercy of the secgen. doesnt matter if we tick all the boxes. if he doenst want to, then we dont get the green light. so the best we can do, is give a compelling case. thats it. not you, but i see a lot of people in socmed saying as long as someone stays in the RP for 5 years ok na. or if they study in the Philippines and get drafted in the PBA, we can get exemption. there are 2 problems there 1) if consistently thats how to get a player who failed to get a passport prior to 16th year bday, that will make the passport rule next to useless. obviously FIBA will not allow that 2) having this mindset makes developing local players not a priority. why should we? we can excempt filfors?
so yes, i think ahead of time. ano ka ba, i've been talking with you guys for years

"mag 4 years plang. based on the topic, im thinking as if im FIBA and im not Filipino."

- that's why asking FIBA for an exemption NOW will be kinda st*p*d on the part of SBP. as you said, give them a compelling reason but how? let him exhaust all his eligibility in DLSU to further develop his game. studying and residing here will surely give him lots of pogi points in the eyes of FIBA.

" if consistently thats how to get a player who failed to get a passport prior to 16th year bday, that will make the passport rule next to useless."

- ofcourse, FIBA will consider the age of the player when he first arrived in the country to reside and when did he get his passport. these are two reckoning points - remember Chris Newsome first arrived here at age 21 while Greg Slaughter at age 19.

"having this mindset makes developing local players not a priority."

- recruiting foreign-based players age 16-19. most of them are still raw. they have the potential but still raw. look at Ange Kouame - he first arrived here at age 18 and he was raw way back 2018 Jones Cup but the potential is already there. Ateneo did develop his game since then.

"i think ahead of time."

- it depends on your definition of "ahead of time". we may have differing views on that.

[hmbopbaduwap]

OT question for the legal people here , what is the naturalization process for Tyler Tio went through and how is it different from Brownlee ?

is it also via congress also ?

https://interaksyon.philstar.com/sports/2017/05/31/75636/promising-guard-tyler-tio-to-finally-suit-up-for-ateneo-after-acquiring-filipino-citizenship/

[ja.he]

OT question for the legal people here , what is the naturalization process for Tyler Tio went through and how is it different from Brownlee ?

is it also via congress also ?

I believe that he is covered by the Citizenship Retention and Reacquisition Act. When his parents reacquired Filipino citizenship, he was also included to that coverage. Therefore, no need for him to go to the court. He does not even need to undergo to the naturalization process.

[IPC]

To be fair with Junemar, he is still the best postup big man of the country. He uses his heft well, has a soft touch and can do post fadeaways. His pick and roll defense has already improved to the point where he is playable at stretches, unlike the time when he would give up fouls to keep up with driving guards against his pick and roll defense. The continuous exposure this year to international basketball has truly helped. We can only imagine if he had this continuous exposure to international, especially when he was younger. Having to consistently guard small centers, imports with height restrictions and offenses that are iso-centric in the PBA contributed to his current state.

Small centers who either aren't a consistent threat in the perimeter or not threats in the PnR. Honestly, the PBA really needs to add full-time imports.

[System]

Small centers who either aren't a consistent threat in the perimeter or not threats in the PnR. Honestly, the PBA really needs to add full-time imports.

Agreed. And they should really go away with the height limits. The evidence of it being a detriment to the development of players is already right in their face. What is the reason why they still even have that rule anyway? Is it really to protect the image of the capabilities of locals?

[DAdmiral]

No one is saying there should be no pro or college league in the country, but it's the structure and system with basketball landscape in the Philippines that is the problem.
With our level of players do you think it is wise to have the same collegiate and pro NBA structure as the US , c'mon of course NOT. We are the only ones with this system outside of the US .
remember Japans high school and college basketball structure of leaques are no where like the PHILIPPINES, for that matter no other country aside from US is.
this is where paradigm culture of doing things needs to change and have open mind , the problem is we are US centric or insular in thought and do not know any other way , but business and life as usual

[C2Hamm]

"mag 4 years plang. based on the topic, im thinking as if im FIBA and im not Filipino."

- that's why asking FIBA for an exemption NOW will be kinda st*p*d on the part of SBP. as you said, give them a compelling reason but how? let him exhaust all his eligibility in DLSU to further develop his game. studying and residing here will surely give him lots of pogi points in the eyes of FIBA.

" if consistently thats how to get a player who failed to get a passport prior to 16th year bday, that will make the passport rule next to useless."

- ofcourse, FIBA will consider the age of the player when he first arrived in the country to reside and when did he get his passport. these are two reckoning points - remember Chris Newsome first arrived here at age 21 while Greg Slaughter at age 19.

im questioning the idea of planning with the assumption that we can exemption for certain players. if we don't get an exemption, at all, then that messes up whatever plan is in place. where as, if our main planned pool are all eligible.. then no (eligibility) problem. bonus if someone gets an exemption.

"having this mindset makes developing local players not a priority."

- recruiting foreign-based players age 16-19. most of them are still raw. they have the potential but still raw. look at Ange Kouame - he first arrived here at age 18 and he was raw way back 2018 Jones Cup but the potential is already there. Ateneo did develop his game since then.

- why are we "heavily" recruiting foreign based players to be part of Gilas? can we not form a competitive team without chasing foreign based players? if we cant, can SBP do something to raise the bar of the local players? or we just dont believe SBP can do any local development so we look elsewhere?

"i think ahead of time."

- it depends on your definition of "ahead of time". we may have differing views on that.

not a problem. im happy to read and sometime discuss with other peoples point of view. I have no plans on making other people change their mind or views but happy to change mine if needed.

[paulrenzo]

hopefully one of the Asian leagues snatch Kouame as their world import for the sake of his development.

I've been reading reports that he might play in Europe

- why are we "heavily" recruiting foreign based players to be part of Gilas? can we not form a competitive team without chasing foreign based players? if we cant, can SBP do something to raise the bar of the local players? or we just dont believe SBP can do any local development so we look elsewhere?

To be fair, it is still hard to find a decently-sized center with potential in the PH. Our tall guys (Tamayo, Baltazar, etc) are international PF's at most.

After Junemar and Kai, we haven't had any more upcoming 6'9" and above local bigs

[Metta]

- why are we "heavily" recruiting foreign based players to be part of Gilas? can we not form a competitive team without chasing foreign based players? if we cant, can SBP do something to raise the bar of the local players? or we just dont believe SBP can do any local development so we look elsewhere?

Yes, our local development is lacking. The shortage of local bigs dilutes overall development. Currently, only the UAAP is addressing that problem. It's the reason why the recent pba draft was dominated by filfors and why the locals being taken by foreign leagues are mostly UAAP and also filfors.