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Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

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  • Originally posted by Kaireem View Post
    seriously what's wrong with a filipino coach?

    is it really the coach or is it more the quality of the players?

    using the foreign coach argument then we should just hire coach malone, steve kerr, mike b, frank vogel and nick nurse - basically the last 5 nba champion coaches and then our problems are solved right?

    and besides outside of ron jacobs, cone and norman black there was no other foreigner who had success in the pba - from bill bayno to mark dickel

    why are we so fixated with foreign coaches again? why not just allow us to develop our own local style of play as opposed to adopting styles that we can't play effectively due to physical limitations?
    Its not the foreign coach. Most fans are just saying that because they want gilas team to execute euro style set plays. Or at the very least, less iso plays, less dribble, and more made 3s. Im confident if sbp says they are giving coach ayo or coach charles the keys for till 2027 wc and PBA wont draft whoever player they pick that isnt in the pba, a lot would hold their opinion about foreign coaches unless either coach or sbp says something that ignite hatred again.
    WE DON'T COUNT YEARS, WE COUNT CENTURIES

    P. Noval, A.H. Lacson, Dapitan, Espanya
    SANTO TOMAS APAT NA DAAN

    Comment


    • What's wrong with a Filipino coach? A Filipino coach will be coming from the same system that, for the meantime is problematic for us on the world stage. It's basically streetball. Iso-showboating, my-turn your turn, that's how our game has always been played. From the streets, to elementary and high school courts, all the way up to the PBA. How may teams/players innately pass rather than do a Kobe (Bryant) against 3-4 defenders? If you're a shooter, you're just some boring shooter. If you make the crazy spectacular plays, you're the man.

      Filipino coaches, born, raised and bred in this system perpetuate it. We see that everyday on the courts & on TV. Until we are weaned from this streetball, my-turn, your-turn system, a Filo coach will always have difficulty beating teams with established systems. Unless we produce super players like JC, but 1 vs 5 is always disadvantaged in a team game. We can learn. And some of the younger coaches are already coming to this realization. The older Yeng Guiao, one time BCAP president and fiercely in opposition to foreign coaches already admitted this grudgingly, "napag-iwanan na tayo."

      Why a foreign coach? Because they've had more success the past 50 years or so. Is it only because they're foreign? Of course not. Get the best man for the job that we can afford, if we're willing to spend. Countries with strong basketball programs, effective systems as evidenced by international success have useful knowledge. Why not leverage their knowledge when evidently, we're not getting the success we want on our own? Our educational system was Spanish, then American, but now we're training our own. Get the best person for the job, regardless of race.
      sigpic

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      • Lack of exposure of Filipino coaches in the FIBA game, plus our ISO centric style only works for one country, the United States, to a lesser extent, Latin American teams, but based on the recent World Cup, none of them made it to the KO stages,


        for now local coaches should apprentice/train with a high caliber foreign coach simmilar to what Coach did for Ron Jacobs. Foregin coach should also focus on training the next gen of loacl coaches, and we have great young bright minds, all they need is training and exposure. Unfortunately BCAP is blined by their own sh*t

        edit: there's a reason why PBA teams were trashed in the EASL and the recent Jones Cup

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ja.he View Post

          Is the PBA really the measuring stick of success? Besides, Bill Bayno was able to coach in the PBA for just one conference as BCAP protested against him. Mark Dickel, Rajko Toroman and Todd Purves were just active consultants, not head coaches.
          Purves was almost the head coach in practice when he became consultant for SMB in the AFC. Then Coach Gee then said that they were implementing Purves' flex system. The next conf he was effectively the head coach but got replaced midway. IRC Purves was more of a scout? I don't think he was good. If anything, using his system was a convenient excuse to sabotage Coach Gee. What head coach will do well given a mandate to use another system? Which was probably brought about by the gripes of RSA favorite Arwind.

          What I remember from Dickel was he was able to maximize Don Trollano. In his term, Don posting up smaller guards was a feature of their offense. He was forced to trade Trollano since the management wanted Parks. I don't remember much of his stint with Parks.

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          • Originally posted by greenarcher View Post

            Pinoy coaches only go up against fellow Pinoy coaches. You will never learn what else is out there in the world when you only fight with people like you. You live in a country of keypad phones in a world of touchscreen phones. You will never know the new technologies/techniques if you are stuck with what you have.

            Even for foreign-mentored ones like Charles Tiu, how long since he was last guided by a foreign coach? It's been ages.

            If Japan, Indonesia, and a whole lot more countries (Canada has a Spanish coach) stuck to their own because of physical limitations, they would still be nowhere until now.
            so the coach is the solution? never mind if we don't have quality players? if it were a foreign coach at the helm of the 2023 wc team would you consider close games vs italy, angola and dr + the win vs china a success or at least a decent showing?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by shootingbwakaw View Post
              What's wrong with a Filipino coach? A Filipino coach will be coming from the same system that, for the meantime is problematic for us on the world stage. It's basically streetball. Iso-showboating, my-turn your turn, that's how our game has always been played. From the streets, to elementary and high school courts, all the way up to the PBA. How may teams/players innately pass rather than do a Kobe (Bryant) against 3-4 defenders? If you're a shooter, you're just some boring shooter. If you make the crazy spectacular plays, you're the man.

              Filipino coaches, born, raised and bred in this system perpetuate it. We see that everyday on the courts & on TV. Until we are weaned from this streetball, my-turn, your-turn system, a Filo coach will always have difficulty beating teams with established systems. Unless we produce super players like JC, but 1 vs 5 is always disadvantaged in a team game. We can learn. And some of the younger coaches are already coming to this realization. The older Yeng Guiao, one time BCAP president and fiercely in opposition to foreign coaches already admitted this grudgingly, "napag-iwanan na tayo."

              Why a foreign coach? Because they've had more success the past 50 years or so. Is it only because they're foreign? Of course not. Get the best man for the job that we can afford, if we're willing to spend. Countries with strong basketball programs, effective systems as evidenced by international success have useful knowledge. Why not leverage their knowledge when evidently, we're not getting the success we want on our own? Our educational system was Spanish, then American, but now we're training our own. Get the best person for the job, regardless of race.
              which almost got us a win vs the dominican republic? i bet we would've won that game if clarkson didnt foul out.

              last 5 champion coaches in the world cup were locals though - yugo for yugo in 2002, spanish for spain in 2006, american for usa in 2010 and 2014 and spanish again for spain in 2019

              Comment


              • Originally posted by C2Hamm View Post

                Its not the foreign coach. Most fans are just saying that because they want gilas team to execute euro style set plays. Or at the very least, less iso plays, less dribble, and more made 3s. Im confident if sbp says they are giving coach ayo or coach charles the keys for till 2027 wc and PBA wont draft whoever player they pick that isnt in the pba, a lot would hold their opinion about foreign coaches unless either coach or sbp says something that ignite hatred again.
                but our 2014 team didn't play euro ball? did they?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kaireem View Post

                  but our 2014 team didn't play euro ball? did they?
                  They played ddo with input from ctb. If fans where happy then e di good. If they are not happy now, what do you want them to do? Not speak? Gilas is the national basket all team of PH. So all bball fans will have a say. Wether we like or not.
                  you get to speak your mind. Thats good. They are speaking theirs. Also good. If they are difference in preference, thats expected.
                  WE DON'T COUNT YEARS, WE COUNT CENTURIES

                  P. Noval, A.H. Lacson, Dapitan, Espanya
                  SANTO TOMAS APAT NA DAAN

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kaireem View Post

                    so the coach is the solution? never mind if we don't have quality players? if it were a foreign coach at the helm of the 2023 wc team would you consider close games vs italy, angola and dr + the win vs china a success or at least a decent showing?
                    ​Who ever said just the coach will solve our problem? Why can't it be foreign coach plus the best players? Why does it have to be 1 or the other?!

                    Originally posted by Kaireem View Post

                    which almost got us a win vs the dominican republic? i bet we would've won that game if clarkson didnt foul out.

                    last 5 champion coaches in the world cup were locals though - yugo for yugo in 2002, spanish for spain in 2006, american for usa in 2010 and 2014 and spanish again for spain in 2019
                    This is why SBP can get away with their mediocrity. Some fans are satisfied with "almost".

                    Our style and our coaches are only good enough for "almost". Decades of almost and still you want the same thing? We will forver be the team of "What Ifs" and "Almost". If that's good enough for you, nothing we can do about it.

                    Japan tried something new, and it did wonders for them. If Tab did not get booted out in the middle of preparations and still failed to beat Angola and DR, then be my guest, let's bring back Choke Reyes.

                    Originally posted by Kaireem View Post

                    but our 2014 team didn't play euro ball? did they?
                    ​The basketball IQ of 3 guys in that 2014 team is equivalent of what this 2023 has. Time to move on from 2013-2014 because we are still an "almost" team.

                    There's a reason why our top players this year all play/played abroad. Does that not show you that their basketball is on a different level? PBA players being shamed should be enough proof that it is on a different level than the rest of the world. EASL and Jones Cup not proof enough?
                    Last edited by greenarcher; 09-05-2023, 01:14 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ja.he View Post
                      Is the PBA really the measuring stick of success? Besides, Bill Bayno was able to coach in the PBA for just one conference as BCAP protested against him. Mark Dickel, Rajko Toroman and Todd Purves were just active consultants, not head coaches.
                      There's the EASL now, and the competition has improved, and the EASL last March just proved that.

                      Let's see if Ginebra and TNT succeed there after getting two imports. Let's see how they do in their groups.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Kaireem View Post

                        which almost got us a win vs the dominican republic? i bet we would've won that game if clarkson didnt foul out.

                        last 5 champion coaches in the world cup were locals though - yugo for yugo in 2002, spanish for spain in 2006, american for usa in 2010 and 2014 and spanish again for spain in 2019
                        That's the thing though. We were in the game because of Clarkson. We lived and die with JC. There's a possibility that we would have lost the China game too if Clarksoj didn't go off in the 3rd QTR.

                        I don't really care if it's a local or foreign coach so long as he's bringing international experience. I'm done with the usual "learning experience" alibi or YG's "everyone is getting better we need to catch up" every time he loses a game. Every GILAS fan has identified the problems for more than a decade now like lack of shooting, predictable plays, too much iso, terrible roster building, lack of prep time etc. Sing me a new tune please

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                        • Our import is a 33MPG 21PPG NBA Guy and all we got were ALMOSTS. Imagine if we did not have JC to keep the games close...

                          Japan's import has never even stepped foot on the NBA Summer League but they are on their way to the Olympics.

                          Imagine what a legit coach with FIBA experience could have done to JC and the team. Why settle for ALMOSTS?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ja.he View Post

                            Is the PBA really the measuring stick of success? Besides, Bill Bayno was able to coach in the PBA for just one conference as BCAP protested against him. Mark Dickel, Rajko Toroman and Todd Purves were just active consultants, not head coaches.
                            Well how many PBA coaches are successful against the PBA? You hire a someone that's fit for the job. You want to win in the PBA , get a good PBA coach. Our most successful and probably most experienced PBA coach in international ball and I'm saying this with respect is Chot, and he never went far. If he cannot be counted upon to do much then I don't really have much faith in other PBA coaches with less or no experience

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by thatweirdguy View Post

                              That's the thing though. We were in the game because of Clarkson. We lived and die with JC. There's a possibility that we would have lost the China game too if Clarksoj didn't go off in the 3rd QTR.

                              I don't really care if it's a local or foreign coach so long as he's bringing international experience. I'm done with the usual "learning experience" alibi or YG's "everyone is getting better we need to catch up" every time he loses a game. Every GILAS fan has identified the problems for more than a decade now like lack of shooting, predictable plays, too much iso, terrible roster building, lack of prep time etc. Sing me a new tune please
                              Sir they've already know the root of the problem since the time of Adam it's just that theirs a certain sinister holding the stakeholders because coming from their misguided heart a Filipino is still best for the job considering he/she knows how to handle them because he/she knows all the traits and behavior of a Filipino.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Kaireem View Post

                                but our 2014 team didn't play euro ball? did they?
                                Kindly explain why the filipino coached top teams in the PBA are getting trashed in the EASL and most recently the Jones Cup
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