Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[fadzki]

The preparation of Gilas in 2019 WC wasn't actually to dissimilar to a lot of teams in the 2019 WC, ( USA , New Zealand etc), it's just that relative to talent and familiarity confidence level at the world level, those teams can afford not to prepare as much. Gilas cannot. or else will get blown out.

so yes in the context of the players the Philippines has it's disposal , it cannot afford to prepare like others and have a short preperation.

The other take away is , where do these players from these other national teams come from , that they can afford to have less preparation?

You got it, they play in international foreign leagues using FIBA rules, and with the same type of level or players they are exposed to regularly throughout the season . the Webster brothers for example , were not playing new unfamiliar competition in the world cup (2019) , these guys they faced in other national teams were the same guys they are either teamates or play regularly against in their leagues.. see the difference

Also WC is held when top leagues around the world season's over so you got rested NT players add the familiarity with the rules of FIBA and they also had a lot of friendlies against other Countries leading up to the WC even days before the World Cup, while our Gilas had two tune up games against undermanned Club from Australia...

[reamily]

Nag laro naman sila sa Spain against Ivory Coast and Congo di lang talaga nakalaban spain..q

The reason of our downfall is forcing a guy from a 18 month ball layoff to be our lead guard and dependency on andre blatche...

From the eay I see it sa new zealand magkaka tune up games pa ba sila, di na ba sila makaka stop over sa clark airport?

[IPC]

Yeah, we now lack the shot creation of a Castro or Romeo. Too dependent now on the system, just like the Koreans (who would have thought we would share their weakness?). Juan could have been that guy, Dwight as well (had he not gotten injured). Maybe Abarrientos once he develops.

We also need shot creation from the bigs. We barely went to the post in the qualifiers (both FIBA Asia and OQT). I think Tab needs to put more emphasis on post play or try to run the offense through the bigs a bit more. Kouame (honestly a pleasant surprise), Kai, Baltazar, and Tamayo have the ability to score down low. Hope more plays are devised to get them to score in the post. Like I said, our bigs are key. When it comes to post scoring, I feel our bigs are better than the East Asian bigs bar those of China.

I'm seeing this frustration in the Bucks-Suns game. To contextualize, Phoenix has DeAndre Ayton on Giannis, and Jae Crowder on Brook Lopez. The could attack the Lopez-Crowder matchup, but instead, the offense runs through the perimeter players.

I dunno with you guys, but the logical move would be to dump the ball to Brook Lopez, since this is what Shaq calls BBQ chicken.

This is a lesson on what NOT to do when one of our bigs has a favorable matchup in the post.

[DAdmiral]

One can really make a metric comparison of the 2019 WC results , from 1st place to last ( 32 nd) and show the correlation of how many player play regularly at each league tier ( e.g. Tier 1 NBA, Tier 2 : top 4 leagues in Europe , Tier 3 Div 1 mid to high major . while may not be exactly ranked from top 1 to 32 , there will be significant correlation and influence. That folks is the number one factor, it can be statistically correlated. . the other factors such as preparation time etc,. while i admit are factors , they are not significantly verified by data. At the end of the day the statistical correlation of world level placings is presence of major league experience ( and of course how good you are in those leagues) , yun talaga.

[reamily]

Andray Blatche, walang ligang sinasalihan..

[zairex]

What country had similar 2 week training and only had 2 games friendly with another WC 2019 country aside from Philippines.

[jasper222]

I'm seeing this frustration in the Bucks-Suns game. To contextualize, Phoenix has DeAndre Ayton on Giannis, and Jae Crowder on Brook Lopez. The could attack the Lopez-Crowder matchup, but instead, the offense runs through the perimeter players.

I dunno with you guys, but the logical move would be to dump the ball to Brook Lopez, since this is what Shaq calls BBQ chicken.

This is a lesson on what NOT to do when one of our bigs has a favorable matchup in the post.

That's true, but this season the Suns discouraged Ayton from posting up often, molding him into a rim running big. The Suns offense also runs through its perimeter players, it just happens that CP3 and Booker can pass.

[JAMSKIE]

The preparation of Gilas in 2019 WC wasn't actually to dissimilar to a lot of teams in the 2019 WC, ( USA , New Zealand etc), it's just that relative to talent and familiarity confidence level at the world level, those teams can afford not to prepare as much. Gilas cannot. or else will get blown out.

so yes in the context of the players the Philippines has at it's disposal , it cannot afford to prepare like others and have a short preparation to do well.

The other take away is , where do these players from these other national teams come from , that they can afford to have less preparation?

You got it, they play in international foreign leagues using FIBA rules, and with the same type of level or players they are exposed to regularly throughout the season . the Webster brothers for example , were not playing new unfamiliar competition in the world cup (2019) , these guys they faced in other national teams were the same guys they are either teamates or play regularly against in their leagues.. see the difference

I think we had already come across to this kind of argument before bro. And my stand in this discussion is still the same, and that is, while hindi naman nagkakalayo ang Gilas (2019 FIBA World Cup team) sa ibang teams in so far as length of preparation period prior to the 2019 FIBA WC is concerned, nagkakatalo yan sa "accumulative" training & preparation which the other teams/countries have been doing years before the 2019 FIBA WC. I mean, during the off season of all the pro leagues all over the world which is during the July to September period, almost all these (if not all) national teams of other countries train/practice & play. And they are doing this on an annual basis.

And this is something our PBA-select Gilas doesn't have the luxury for very obvious reason.

Yes, I believe hindi lang naman ito ang dahilan. Its obvious naman that talent wise, teams like Australia, Serbia, Italy, Argentina, & those teams from Europe & Latin American countries, are significantly better than Gilas, & not to mention their edge in size.

But I think those lower tier world teams like Tunisia, Senegal, and our fellow Asian teams like China, Iran, Japan, Korea - these teams won't enjoy significant advantage over us in terms of talent, but it is in the preparation where they will enjoy a significant edge over us.

Remember, we beat Iran in 2015 Asian Championships mainly becoz we had a good preparation & of course becoz of coach Tab.

[JAMSKIE]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

The Iran team can train for only 2 weeks prior to the 2019 World Cup (just like Gilas) but would still be the more cohesive & more prepared team than Gilas. This since we had Bolick & Perez being new to the team at that time.

[JAMSKIE]

double post

[JAMSKIE]

@DAdmiral

What do you think the national teams of Iran, Japan, China, Korea, Jordan, etc. are doing right now? They are on their respective training camps, right? They're preparing for the Olympics (Japan & Iran only) & the 2021 FIBA Asia Cup.

The training & tune up games that these teams are doing right now would be very relevant to their future campaigns in FIBA tournaments & qualifying windows. And next year, you bet they will do another training camp.

Now, halimbawa we don't have the Gilas cadet program at present, what do you think our PBA-select Gilas team would be doing right now?

Chances are, the PBA-select Gilas team would start to prepare for the Asia Cup 2 weeks prior to the tournament which would a flirt with another disaster.

[IPC]

Here's my take: During the PBA off-season - July to September, national team players in the PBA should train/practice & play for Gilas. Come to think of it, by 2025, most of the current Gilas players like Dwight Ramos, Baltazar, Tamayo, RJ Abarrientos, SJ Belangel, would be in the PBA. If they are united with fellow Gilas players who are now PBA players - Navarro, Heading, Go, Matt Nieto, Suerte, Bulanadi, in Gilas training camp during the PBA off-season, these players already have an established chemistry & bonding which they've developed playing for together for Gilas before they turned pro. Kumbaga eh they'll just need some refresher na lang.

Kai & Kouame can join them during the July to September period since almost all pro leagues in the world (including the NBA, NBL-Australia & European pro leagues) are in the off season in that period.

This is what most, if not all, countries have been doing in years/decades. This is about continuity.

I hope guys like Dwight, Thirdy, Baltazar, Tamayo, and probably Abarrientos won't play in the PBA (meaning they play overseas) until their early to mid-30s, kapag pababa na ang laro nila. Or at least when they've already hit their peak. Availability for windows might be a small issue, but they'll surely be available for the main tournaments.

I agree about the continuity. Get used to the system (on both ends) para muscle memory na lang. We only change a few parts, and we slowly integrate the next generation. Continuity and change, kamo.

[IPC]

That's true, but this season the Suns discouraged Ayton from posting up often, molding him into a rim running big. The Suns offense also runs through its perimeter players, it just happens that CP3 and Booker can pass.

That's exactly why Ayton receives a lot of lobs. CP3 and Booker can pass.

Now if our guards can do the same for Kai and Kouame, that's going to open up new options for our offense. The two of them will provide vertical spacing.

[FITL]

That's exactly why Ayton receives a lot of lobs. CP3 and Booker can pass.

Now if our guards can do the same for Kai and Kouame, that's going to open up new options for our offense. The two of them will provide vertical spacing.

Agreed. Personally, I feel that the best PG at setting up bigs is Kiefer, as seen during the qualifiers when he would perfectly set-up both ground bound Junemar and Japeth. Granted that he isn't shoehorned into the line-up after an 18 month lay-off, of course.

[Labradoodle]

I think we had already come across to this kind of argument before bro. And my stand in this discussion is still the same, and that is, while hindi naman nagkakalayo ang Gilas (2019 FIBA World Cup team) sa ibang teams in so far as length of preparation period prior to the 2019 FIBA WC is concerned, nagkakatalo yan sa "accumulative" training & preparation which the other teams/countries have been doing years before the 2019 FIBA WC. I mean, during the off season of all the pro leagues all over the world which is during the July to September period, almost all these (if not all) national teams of other countries train/practice & play. And they are doing this on an annual basis.

And this is something our PBA-select Gilas doesn't have the luxury for very obvious reason.

Yes, I believe hindi lang naman ito ang dahilan. Its obvious naman that talent wise, teams like Australia, Serbia, Italy, Argentina, & those teams from Europe & Latin American countries, are significantly better than Gilas, & not to mention their edge in size.

But I think those lower tier world teams like Tunisia, Senegal, and our fellow Asian teams like China, Iran, Japan, Korea - these teams won't enjoy significant advantage over us in terms of talent, but it is in the preparation where they will enjoy a significant edge over us.

Remember, we beat Iran in 2015 Asian Championships mainly becoz we had a good preparation & of course becoz of coach Tab.

This is the problem with the national team program. There is no consistent player to play in the NT for about 10 years except for Gabe Norwood.

It seems that with the PBA players NT, it's like their "service" is at most, 2-3 years. After that, you see another set of players

It's probably better to send the whole Meralco or TNT team to FIBA than some PBA All Star with zero chemistry