Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[IPC]

Tab really had a clear, concrete direction for our NT.

It stinks that we don't get to see his program through to the end. His goals were highly ambitious, including a strong second-round finish in the 2023 World Cup and a team that could be a medal contender in 2027. Hopefully we can regroup after the WC. Win or lose this year, we need to could go back to a long-term, meticulous program.

More than that, we could have established a defensive identity for our national team. We pride ourselves on physicality, so why not harness it to play tough defense, while at the same time knowing when to rotate? Plus, he could have brought an element of versatility too. He had Dwight, Navarro, and Balti as versatile defenders, and then Ange as the anchor. Sucks that we'll only see that comvination of system and versatility on defense in Ateneo (where that will drive UAAP schools to improve), not with Gilas.

I'm more biased for defense, so I prefer a strong defense. Besides, our best performances in tournaments were when we had a really strong D.

[IPC]

My final 12 :

Brownlee, Hermoso, Perez, Ganuelas, Lassiter, Newsome, Oftana, Ross, Amos, M.Phillips, Tolentino and Lastimosa.

out : Gray, Black & B.Phillips

why Tolentino and Lastimosa in? Yes we will win but how would our SEA neighbours react when most of our players are foreign- born. The two must be included so as to present a semblance of “local-ness” otherwise they will say Philippines won because it is manned mostly by “foreign mercenaries”. Forgive me for this term but I anticipate negative feedbacks from our rivals.

I agree. This is why I agree with the Hagop rule. Before the Hagop rule we were getting good players that had dubious or far connection to the Philippines. We were literally recruiting any good player that at least has a grandparent that was Filipino or anybody that could produce a Filipino passport. Let me remind you that when it comes to Filipino passport anybody can get it if the price is right. Guys like Alvarado and Rob Parker have them right until it was proven their so-called Filipino ancestor was not Filipino.

Even with guys that have parents or grandparents that were Filipinos, everybody knows these guys were developed abroad. If we bring a Philippine team that is 90% guys that developed their game outside the Philippines, what does it say about us? Are we that desperate that we will go for almost overseas-growns because they are taller, more athletic and more skilled when many home growns are good enough if not slightly shorter or slightly less athletic or less skilled than their overseas-grown counterparts? Also, are we really going for a team that is more than 50% Fiba ineligible? Are we just saying that throw development and chemistry out of the door, we are going with all our good ineligibles so we can win Gold, continuity and preparation for the WC be damned. Then come WC, Chot will complain about the lack of practice time when he could've picked guys who could play for the WC in the SEA games team.

This is exactly why we should be focusing our resources in developing internationally-capable homegrown players instead of just relying on Fil-foreigners. I'm not saying we should stop getting Fil-foreigners. If they're capable and willing, why reject them, right?

I'm just saying that our federation should pour in resources in developing more homegrown players to be able to play in Gilas, and be fit for systems in Europe, Aussie, even the US NCAA D1. That means sending them to compete with the best kids outside the Philippines, and even outside Asia. Some Fil-foreign kids with "little to no foreign ancestry" have the tools naman, like athleticism and length for their positions. Will Navarro, for instance, or Cholo Anonuevo. It's just a matter of developing them and putting them in the right environments, e.

[Rds]

This is exactly why we should be focusing our resources in developing internationally-capable homegrown players instead of just relying on Fil-foreigners. I'm not saying we should stop getting Fil-foreigners. If they're capable and willing, why reject them, right?

I'm just saying that our federation should pour in resources in developing more homegrown players to be able to play in Gilas, and be fit for systems in Europe, Aussie, even the US NCAA D1. That means sending them to compete with the best kids outside the Philippines, and even outside Asia. Some Fil-foreign kids with "little to no foreign ancestry" have the tools naman, like athleticism and length for their positions. Will Navarro, for instance, or Cholo Anonuevo. It's just a matter of developing them and putting them in the right environments, e.

What motivation can you give potential sponsors to bring a good home-grown to NBA academy or to train to be recruited by the NCAA? That is what Japan and Korea are doing. What are the motivations of their sponsors? To put a homegrown in the NBA? To develop top tier Fiba players for the national team? Which company or individual here will give such money for that? UP boosters are probably giving a lot of money for star players in redundant positions. Do you think any of them will sponsor Pablo or Demisana to train for the NCAA? I want that to happen and most people agree that has to happen. But you need to convince somebody with money to support them.

[IPC]

What motivation can you give potential sponsors to bring a good home-grown to NBA academy or to train to be recruited by the NCAA? That is what Japan and Korea are doing. What are the motivations of their sponsors? To put a homegrown in the NBA? To develop top tier Fiba players for the national team? Which company or individual here will give such money for that? UP boosters are probably giving a lot of money for star players in redundant positions. Do you think any of them will sponsor Pablo or Demisana to train for the NCAA? I want that to happen and most people agree that has to happen. But you need to convince somebody with money to support them.

Honestly, the best I can do is that the federation should be the one spearheading that, especially if the head is backed by big money, if only to match the benefits. If the boosters and backers don't do that, the federation should lead by example. But even that is a long shot.

[DAdmiral]

What incentive motivation? It comes down to the eco system that is the problem. There is no financial incentive to fund a players overseas development, that's where the problem lies. For that matter that's why the Philippines as whole in most sectors is backwards. People are obviously incentiivised to what works to get ahead using our system. If that means taking advantage of the poor and keep them un educated to keep the elite status and profit for family, so be it . .or to keep players to win in domestic league for pogi points among allimni so be it ( so messed up)

[JAMSKIE]

Tab really had a clear, concrete direction for our NT.

It stinks that we don't get to see his program through to the end. His goals were highly ambitious, including a strong second-round finish in the 2023 World Cup and a team that could be a medal contender in 2027. Hopefully we can regroup after the WC. Win or lose this year, we need to could go back to a long-term, meticulous program.

I couldn't agree with U more.
Everything looked well with Gilas under coach Tab, until the demons intervened.

[JAMSKIE]

More than that, we could have established a defensive identity for our national team. We pride ourselves on physicality, so why not harness it to play tough defense, while at the same time knowing when to rotate? Plus, he could have brought an element of versatility too. He had Dwight, Navarro, and Balti as versatile defenders, and then Ange as the anchor. Sucks that we'll only see that comvination of system and versatility on defense in Ateneo (where that will drive UAAP schools to improve), not with Gilas.

I'm more biased for defense, so I prefer a strong defense. Besides, our best performances in tournaments were when we had a really strong D.

I think under coach Tab, our national players will be able to learn how to play tough & physical defense which is within the context of how defense is played under FIBA rules & not the kind of defense in which would usually merit fouls. I remember coach Rajko Toroman during his early stint with the Gilas-1 program saying like Filipino players are skilled but lack the tactical skills for the FIBA game. This only explains how PBA style of play has been very much different from how the FIBA game is played.

I believe the real struggle of our PBA national team players has been adjusting with how to play defense under FIBA rules.

[DAdmiral]

Just csme up with a vision and idea

what if i raise spinsor support from well meaning Filipinos overseas to bankroll participation in the camp below for 4 or 5 Filipinos. I think it's feasible . Kaya.

https://nz.basketball/five-kiwis-selected-for-nba-academy-asia-development-camp-in-singapore/

[IPC]

I think under coach Tab, our national players will be able to learn how to play tough & physical defense which is within the context of how defense is played under FIBA rules & not the kind of defense in which would usually merit fouls. I remember coach Rajko Toroman during his early stint with the Gilas-1 program saying like Filipino players are skilled but lack the tactical skills for the FIBA game. This only explains how PBA style of play has been very much different from how the FIBA game is played.

I believe the real struggle of our PBA national team players has been adjusting with how to play defense under FIBA rules.

I think Ateneo under Tab had to play physical against UP, and the Nieto brothers held (as in, nanghawak) on defense. So, I think Tab's fine with physicality. And combined with tall, versatile defenders (Navarro, Malonzo, Dwight, Balti) and a good defensive system, that's a dream to have.

[Metta]

What incentive motivation? It comes down to the eco system that is the problem. There is no financial incentive to fund a players overseas development, that's where the problem lies. For that matter that's why the Philippines as whole in most sectors is backwards. People are obviously incentiivised to what works to get ahead using our system. If that means taking advantage of the poor and keep them un educated to keep the elite status and profit for family, so be it . .or to keep players to win in domestic league for pogi points among allimni so be it ( so messed up)

For those who haven't seen it, check out the movie "The Blindside." It's about a rich family taking in (adopting) a poor athletically-promising kid who ends up becoming a professional nfl player.

This scenario is quite common in the US. Some examples are Jimmy Butler, Iverson and LeBron James. These kids from poor/dangerous backgrounds who show a lot of potential are taken in by families to provide a more stable environment and access to better training and opportunities.

So it doesn't really have to be a big program (and the redtape that goes along with it). It can be wealthy well-meaning Filipinos. Heck, Delta Pineda has been doing it, he just needs to have a bigger vision and aim for the NBA for his prospects.

[IPC]

That tournament proved Pogoy and Troy aren't't NT material anymore. They sucked on defense and can't even shoot decently against SEA level opponents. WTH

Thank goodness guys like Malonzo, Japeth, Carl, and Mason rendered Troy out of consideration for the NT. All of those mentioned at least bring a translatable skill to FIBA.

As for Pogoy, that SEA Games should have ended his Gilas career with how poorly he played there, but he redeemed himself in the November window on both ends. Still, I'd take Dwight, Parks, Heading, Newsome, Perez, Thirdy, and Abando over him at 2.

[thatweirdguy]

Thank goodness guys like Malonzo, Japeth, Carl, and Mason rendered Troy out of consideration for the NT. All of those mentioned at least bring a translatable skill to FIBA.

As for Pogoy, that SEA Games should have ended his Gilas career with how poorly he played there, but he redeemed himself in the November window on both ends. Still, I'd take Dwight, Parks, Heading, Newsome, Perez, Thirdy, and Abando over him at 2.

I have no idea how he was even considered in that window after his SEAG stint when we have tons of options then. I'm still sour at him though and hopefully that's not fools gold and he still has a lot left in his tank.

[IPC]

I have no idea how he was even considered in that window after his SEAG stint when we have tons of options then. I'm still sour at him though and hopefully that's not fools gold and he still has a lot left in his tank.

At this point, though, I think we should retire him for younger options. Dwight, Parks, Heading, Abando, and Thirdy should be enough as our best at SG after the WC. Heck, there may be better options than the ones I mentioned (bar Dwight and Parks) in the future.

[FilWelsh]

I had discussion with a fellow poster here about 10 years ago, he highlighted one of the major factor why PBA or our local players has lagged behind from their counterparts in neighboring Asian countries. It is the over-reliance of PBA ball clubs with their import reinforcements. Back then he compared the stats and production of import players in Asian leagues (China, South Korea, Lebanon, Japan and Philippines). He noted imports in Philippines on average even in 2-import conference are having stats like 35 PPG and 10 RPG. What compounded more is the height restrictions rule for imports. In in other Asian countries, their imports are tap without height restrictions or even there are 2-3 of them imports in a particular team. Their individual stats is not as high as imports in PBA.

This trend stunted development of our local players consequently our our national team. Maybe this also a reason why there is an influx number of Fil- foreign players as some of our local players due to their teams’ over dependence with foreign reinforcements has lost their skills and their confidence. Well, I remember that it is typical that PBA imports even averaged more than 40 points a game. If the team’s second import is norming 30 PPG and then the remaining 20-30 PPG distributed to local players.

Do I think imports in PBA are better than in imports in CBA (China), B.League (Japan), KBL (South Korea)? Nope I don’t think so. As a matter of fact the quality of imports in CBA is in the same level as that of EuroLeague imports. Salary is what draw these imports mostly Americans to strut their skills in China.

So what is the reason why these over-reliance of PBA teams to their imports? I think Filipinos’ issue is our inferiority complex is much worse than our Asian neighbors.

[DAdmiral]

The reason why there is a big gap between imports in the PBA vs locals as compared to other leagues like the NBL or even the UAAP comes down to "market forces".

let me explain , what is offered to UAAP/ NBL locals is at par or even higher than their respective imports. So essentially if the PBA only offered contracts to imports similar to the rules of locals, there will be no super imports, why ? No way will a NBA caliber player enter the local PBA draft and accept the rookie PBA contract deals , no way. furthermore a player like Kai Sotto cannot enter the PBA on a import short term mercenary contract . Like SMC can't just call up Kai for the playoffs for $ 100k .

this is what rules and policies does to roster composition , essentially teams and players are incentivised and make moves based on the rules put in place.