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Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

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  • Originally posted by IPC View Post
    Yeah, I think he will be. An athletic 6'9" combo forward who can shoot, drive, and defend at a good level will (and should) have a place in Gilas.

    I can't believe our development system hasn't totally figured this out.
    What's his FIBA nationality ? Reason I mentioned it , he's competitive vs Brownlee, and he looks better than Gilas potential starting PF Malonzo.
    It really highlights the Philippines gap, (as you mentioned)

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    • Originally posted by DAdmiral View Post
      Question if the Bay Area Chinese forward (around 6'8) was Filipino, would he be at the level to play for Gilas , given our lack of size mobility at the forward spot
      Hayden blankley? Aussie chinese..
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      • Originally posted by Silent Killer View Post
        Hayden blankley? Aussie chinese..
        I think he was referring to Zhu Songwei.

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        • Originally posted by IPC View Post
          I think he was referring to Zhu Songwei.
          Yes that guy

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          • Originally posted by DAdmiral View Post
            Question if the Bay Area Chinese forward (around 6'8) was Filipino, would he be at the level to play for Gilas , given our lack of size mobility at the forward spot
            Look at his frame, thats a perimeter player. Our good 6'8 guys seem to be packing too much muscle even in HS. A guy like Gagate should train as a perimeter player. He is overmatched in the paint against most teams in the Asia tourney. Hongwei doesnt look long for his height. But he makes up for it by being light, mobile and playing a perimeter position. Gagate should too.

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            • ^^
              Exactly, I'll just rant out a few forwards with similar build, and one will get the picture (why they're successful in major league

              Yuta
              Ben Gold
              Cooks
              Pinder
              Gaspare

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              • Originally posted by Rds View Post
                Look at his frame, thats a perimeter player. Our good 6'8 guys seem to be packing too much muscle even in HS. A guy like Gagate should train as a perimeter player. He is overmatched in the paint against most teams in the Asia tourney. Hongwei doesnt look long for his height. But he makes up for it by being light, mobile and playing a perimeter position. Gagate should too.
                Pinoy-rules basketball favors the heavier body-type. Unless rules are changed nation-wide, players will always need to be heavier to be able to withstand pinoy style hoops. You're right, even at our HS level, kids are already jacking up. The US high school scene is towards the opposite, kids are getting leaner and faster.

                It's funny how in the podcast of Mikee Reyes he mentions that just because you're good in the UAAP doesn't mean you can be good in the NCAA where it's "patapangan" basketball instead of "pagalingan." The problem with that mindset is, if you put too much emphasis on physicality and bully-ball basketball...what happens when you come across a team that is bigger/faster/stronger (international-level) and you can't bully ball anymore? Or if the officiating does not allow that type of physicality?

                Patapangan basketball also puts premium on older players to the detriment of younger players. The reason why our players tend to be older in all levels.

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                • Originally posted by Rds View Post
                  Look at his frame, thats a perimeter player. Our good 6'8 guys seem to be packing too much muscle even in HS. A guy like Gagate should train as a perimeter player. He is overmatched in the paint against most teams in the Asia tourney. Hongwei doesnt look long for his height. But he makes up for it by being light, mobile and playing a perimeter position. Gagate should too.
                  Originally posted by DAdmiral View Post
                  ^^
                  Exactly, I'll just rant out a few forwards with similar build, and one will get the picture (why they're successful in major league

                  Yuta
                  Ben Gold
                  Cooks
                  Pinder
                  Gaspare
                  Originally posted by Metta View Post
                  Pinoy-rules basketball favors the heavier body-type. Unless rules are changed nation-wide, players will always need to be heavier to be able to withstand pinoy style hoops. You're right, even at our HS level, kids are already jacking up. The US high school scene is towards the opposite, kids are getting leaner and faster.

                  It's funny how in the podcast of Mikee Reyes he mentions that just because you're good in the UAAP doesn't mean you can be good in the NCAA where it's "patapangan" basketball instead of "pagalingan." The problem with that mindset is, if you put too much emphasis on physicality and bully-ball basketball...what happens when you come across a team that is bigger/faster/stronger (international-level) and you can't bully ball anymore? Or if the officiating does not allow that type of physicality?

                  Patapangan basketball also puts premium on older players to the detriment of younger players. The reason why our players tend to be older in all levels.
                  That patapangan is kind of part of the reason why many of our 6'4"-6'7" guys are fours or fives that cannot defend the perimeter. If you're tall, diyan ka na, even if you had the mobility by HS or college. More physicality than speed, even though speed will be a better fit for the international game. As Metta said, what happens when you come across a team that is bigger/faster/stronger (international-level) and you can't bully ball anymore? Kaya lagging ang basketball at player development dito, e.

                  With our most mobile 6'6"-6'8" players, goal should be developing Yuta-type forwards. Good shooters, mobile, and good defenders. Yeah, starting kids as guards early helps, but you can train them at say, 13-17 if they are 6'6"-6'7" and still have that mobility. 6'6"-6'8" versatile forwards among homegrowns are still a foreign concept here for the most part, except for Carl and Balti.

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                  • Originally posted by Metta View Post
                    Pinoy-rules basketball favors the heavier body-type. Unless rules are changed nation-wide, players will always need to be heavier to be able to withstand pinoy style hoops. You're right, even at our HS level, kids are already jacking up. The US high school scene is towards the opposite, kids are getting leaner and faster.

                    It's funny how in the podcast of Mikee Reyes he mentions that just because you're good in the UAAP doesn't mean you can be good in the NCAA where it's "patapangan" basketball instead of "pagalingan." The problem with that mindset is, if you put too much emphasis on physicality and bully-ball basketball...what happens when you come across a team that is bigger/faster/stronger (international-level) and you can't bully ball anymore? Or if the officiating does not allow that type of physicality?

                    Patapangan basketball also puts premium on older players to the detriment of younger players. The reason why our players tend to be older in all levels.
                    Oh yeah, when did Mikee say that UAAP-NCAA part? Did he discount the ability of some UAAP guys who have performed well or were useful in the FIBA level, like Tamayo, Navarro, Balt?. Heck, Thirdy was useful on defense too.

                    And a lot of the useful Gilas players over the past decade actually came from the UAAP. Jeff Chan, Larry Fonacier, LA Tenorio, Tamayo, Navarro, Balti, Japeth, Parks, Terrence Romeo. NCAA did produce Castro, Abueva, Bolick, and Scottie as Gilas assets. While they are stars, that's all the NCAA and its "patapangan" style has produced.

                    Look at their ability in international-level competitions, not just if they can last in physical local leagues.

                    Oftana and Alas could be useful as Gilas players, but they don't have enough reps yet.
                    Last edited by IPC; 01-08-2023, 12:17 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by IPC View Post
                      Oh yeah, when did Mikee say that UAAP-NCAA part? Did he discount the ability of some UAAP guys who have performed well or were useful in the FIBA level, like Tamayo, Navarro, Balt?. Heck, Thirdy was useful on defense too.

                      And a lot of the useful Gilas players over the past decade actually came from the UAAP. Jeff Chan, Larry Fonacier, LA Tenorio, Tamayo, Navarro, Balti, Japeth, Parks, Terrence Romeo. NCAA did produce Castro, Abueva, Bolick, and Scottie as Gilas assets. While they are stars, that's all the NCAA and its "patapangan" style has produced.

                      Look at their ability in international-level competitions, not just if they can last in physical local leagues.

                      Oftana and Alas could be useful as Gilas players, but they don't have enough reps yet.
                      Basketball isn't just physical there's also the mental part. Successful players have both. I agree with that observation and that has prepared the NCAA guys for the much more physical pro leagues. I remember when the Red Lions lost to Baste in the finals. You could argue that talent wise both teams are equal but the other team has more "tapang".
                      They got punked and bloodied (check out Hermida's eye courtesy of cheap shot artist Tomboy). They worked out like crazy and added more height and toughness to the team. By next season Baste's cheap shots even groin shots hardly bothered them. That batch produced a lot of PBA players..

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                      • Originally posted by thatweirdguy View Post
                        Basketball isn't just physical there's also the mental part. Successful players have both. I agree with that observation and that has prepared the NCAA guys for the much more physical pro leagues. I remember when the Red Lions lost to Baste in the finals. You could argue that talent wise both teams are equal but the other team has more "tapang".
                        They got punked and bloodied (check out Hermida's eye courtesy of cheap shot artist Tomboy). They worked out like crazy and added more height and toughness to the team. By next season Baste's cheap shots even groin shots hardly bothered them. That batch produced a lot of PBA players..
                        I agree naman, it's not just talent, you need physical and mental toughness. My view has been that you need a healthy balance of talent, skill, mobility, and toughness. My mistake for not saying that earlier.

                        But I think we should marry the "patapangan" part with developing the good players for international competitions. We have to emphasize fitness for international competitions, especially in our 3 and 4 positions, even 2.

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                        • speaking of “patapangan”

                          boomers has both “patapangan” and skills.. not to the point you’ll call boomers a dirty team..
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                          • Originally posted by Silent Killer View Post
                            speaking of “patapangan”

                            boomers has both “patapangan” and skills.. not to the point you’ll call boomers a dirty team..
                            This is what I want Gilas to be in the future. The "original" Asian version of the Boomers and the Tall Blacks. Skilled, but also versatile and physical on the defensive end.

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                            • Originally posted by IPC View Post
                              This is what I want Gilas to be in the future. The "original" Asian version of the Boomers and the Tall Blacks. Skilled, but also versatile and physical on the defensive end.
                              Who among the current members are physical? Thompson?

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                              • Originally posted by thatweirdguy View Post
                                Who among the current members are physical? Thompson?
                                Based on the past 2 windows, maybe Carl, although he's an up-and-down defender (even if he could contain switches). Scottie can take physicality, not really dish it out. Maybe Perez?

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