Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[JAMSKIE]

yun nga lang, the PBA would only give a week or 10 days break for the window, which is not enough, especially if there is no strong program in place

China, Aus and NZ can afford small breaks because of their talent pool while Korea's system is well in place. I just hope after 2023 Tab's system will continue as we have the knack to reset everything (always back to zero)

Our difference with other countries is that while halos lahat naman would give their national teams just around 10 days of training in every window, yung national teams ng China, Korea, Iran, Taiwan, Kazakhstan, Japan, etc. get to train & participate in some FIBA or international tourneys during the off-season of their pro leagues which is during the months of July, August & September - a period which PBA season is very much in the running. That is why mas cohesive pa rin yung teams ng ibang bansa kisa sa atin.

[Sikatrix]

problem would be the qualifying windows, in fairness to the PBA at least they pause the league during the window tournaments, do other leagues do this as well? (aside for the ASEAN basketball league do other asian and oceania leagues halt their season to accomodate the windows? same with europe?

definitely not the nba as USAB rely on the gleague for players during the windows, i remember prior the world cup, van gundy coached a team of gleaguers

From what I know the euroleague doesnt pause.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA%E2%80%93EuroLeague_dispute

[neo]

when d pba adopted the 2-conference format, d pba-rp teams were just able to produce 9th and 8th place finish.

when they returned to 3-conference, gilas made headway. and if not for chot's foolishness, we could have had a better finish in d qualifiers and better performance in 2019 wc.

having a naturalized player is a major part of d success, but (still) the data suggest that we did not do well even with that 2-conference format and fiba-friendly calendar then.

of course, there are many variables for the failures and successes, and that is my point.

[Sikatrix]

The PBA could be more accomodating but level of talent in the PBA isnt good enough to meet the goals of the Filipino people. Better if top talents end up abroad even if the FIBA availability is compromised. Talent development first.

[IPC]

when d pba adopted the 2-conference format, d pba-rp teams were just able to produce 9th and 8th place finish.

when they returned to 3-conference, gilas made headway. and if not for chot's foolishness, we could have had a better finish in d qualifiers and better performance in 2019 wc.

having a naturalized player is a major part of d success, but (still) the data suggest that we did not do well even with that 2-conference format and fiba-friendly calendar then.

of course, there are many variables for the failures and successes, and that is my point.

There are also these PBA-related factors:

1. 10 teams from 2012-14, meaning less games
2. They gave Gilas 4 months to prepare for the 2013 FIBA Asia Championship, and 1 1/2 months to prepare for the 2014 World Cup and 2015 FIBA Asia Championship.
3. The PBA finished the 2013-14 and 2014-15 seasons within 9 months, not the 12-month seasons we've been having.
4. We had a golden generation at the right time from 2012-16. Plus, almost everyone was available (except 2015), especially the best players.

Prep time, talent, and availability are key factors. We need all three to even have a chance.

[reamily]

2012-2016 isnt golden, it was silver generation lll.. all korean great players from moon to seo jang hoon to bang sung yoon to oh seng keun can brag at least once they got an asian title and they battled the best versikn of china nt ( yao ming era) tayo eh..
Yup what we wanted is world class competitikn we already got it, up to the next level which is winning it all..

[IPC]

first, its business. less games, less brand exposure. instead of paying a page (print) or spot (web) to promote or advertise ta brand, the news about games (pre and post) does it (among things).

second, its business. pba companies in general are not as rich as companies in most other countries. they want to maximize their investment (why pay for a full year salary when they only play 6 months? they might as well maximize it, 9 to 10 months).

third, its business. while eala then was able to come up with a 2-conference a season to allow break that fits d fiba schedule but still provide more pba games, d pba teams were able to correctly point out that its not about more games, but more playoff games (which will be d case in a 3-conference format) that brings more fans interest and media mileage. more conference also means more chances for teams to salvage a season (for example meralco who is used to being bad or very bad in d first 2 conferences, but very good in d 3rd conference).

moreover, d eala format was used for a number of years and d results were not really encouraging, we still sucked then.

in the end, the pba schedule is this way because of the type of business model that they have adopted. and it is this business model that put food in d table of hundreds of players and their families. sbp will not dare go against it. especially as the current sbp people are current or former pba officials.

add on nalang to.

btw, the 2 conference format has more games than d 3-conference format. well, at least back on d days when there were less than 12 teams.

when d pba adopted the 2-conference format, d pba-rp teams were just able to produce 9th and 8th place finish.

when they returned to 3-conference, gilas made headway. and if not for chot's foolishness, we could have had a better finish in d qualifiers and better performance in 2019 wc.

having a naturalized player is a major part of d success, but (still) the data suggest that we did not do well even with that 2-conference format and fiba-friendly calendar then.

of course, there are many variables for the failures and successes, and that is my point.

Yeah, when there were less than 12 teams.

I did a rundown of the seasons from 2005 to 2019, and here's what I found in terms of total PBA games. And these are non-playoff games.

Two-conference format:

2004-05: 180 games
2005-06: 166 games
2006-07: 186 games
2007-08: 180 games
2008-09: 160 games
2009-10: 180 games

Three-conference format, less than 12 teams:

2010-11: 181 games
2011-12: 200 games
2012-13: 185 games
2013-14: 160 games

Three-conference format, 12 teams:

2014-15:198 games
2015-16: 198 games
2016-17: 198 games
2017-18: 198 games
2019: 198 games

3-conference format had more games, even when there were less than 12 teams, but at least it was practicable at the time, and it gave our national team ample time and opportunity to practice. Nowadays, I'm not so sure anymore, especially if it ends up prolonging the seasons and gives less time for FIBA training.

At least we have the cadet program. Availability won't be a big issue, and when some cadets outside the PBA are better than most PBA stars, we'll rely less and less on the PBA.

[reamily]

We always pray for our cadets to be beter than our current stars 1994 pa lang we have guys like kenneth duremdes and marlou aquino who are generational talents.. but for past 27 years is still the pro core, you can put kouame as big body and kai sotto out there and some personal bias but still they mesh well kn a pba core..

[IPC]

2012-2016 isnt golden, it was silver generation lll.. all korean great players from moon to seo jang hoon to bang sung yoon to oh seng keun can brag at least once they got an asian title and they battled the best versikn of china nt ( yao ming era) tayo eh..
Yup what we wanted is world class competitikn we already got it, up to the next level which is winning it all..

Good point. Our golden generation was 50's to early 60's, and I think China wasn't participating much.

So how do we develop a team that can win against China, SoKor, Japan, Aussie, and NZ? I do hope we win an Asiad or a FIBA Asia medal someday, but will that day come within our lifetimes? We kinda have a few pieces, but will they be enough?

[IPC]

We always pray for our cadets to be beter than our current stars 1994 pa lang we have guys like kenneth duremdes and marlou aquino who are generational talents.. but for past 27 years is still the pro core, you can put kouame as big body and kai sotto out there and some personal bias but still they mesh well kn a pba core..

Yeah, provided the PBA core is given ample time to mesh within the system.

[neo]

There are also these PBA-related factors:

1. 10 teams from 2012-14, meaning less games
2. They gave Gilas 4 months to prepare for the 2013 FIBA Asia Championship, and 1 1/2 months to prepare for the 2014 World Cup and 2015 FIBA Asia Championship.
3. The PBA finished the 2013-14 and 2014-15 seasons within 9 months, not the 12-month seasons we've been having.
4. We had a golden generation at the right time from 2012-16. Plus, almost everyone was available (except 2015), especially the best players.

Prep time, talent, and availability are key factors. We need all three to even have a chance.

1. we basically have 10 teams also during the two-conference era. and d 2007 team have topnotch preparation, including a training camp in serbia.
2. they prepared early but its not just about the 4 months you are referring to, but that d 2013 gilas was basically 2012 gilas with some additional faces. so there was continuity of at least a year. ditto of course with d 2014 WC.
3. there is no 12-month season. the 10-11 months season was made to about 9-months yes. and of course, d agreement at present is less adjustment in d calendar because of the gilas pba draftees being implemented.
4. even gabe norwoord opined that d 2009 team is probably d most talented in paper. but they did not have the prep of 2007 and gilas teams, they do not have a naturalized player, yeng played favorites in player selection (alapag and hontiveros should have been there), and of course, yeng was a novice in fiba ball.

I agree that prep time, talent, and availability are key factors, but these have been discussed eons ago in this forum and others. There is really not much to say, except for mvp teams to hoard more pba talents that can be tapped to reinforce the non-pba national pool. i expect d pba teams to lend more marquee players in time for 2023, but in reality we only need a few point guards and wings to join d pool and that's about it.

[reamily]

Yeah, provided the PBA core is given ample time to mesh within the system.

The aystem is there for 10 years now..its up to the maturity of players..the only thing that makes preparations longer for me is top level conditioning, yun sisyema alam mo na.. pero yun effirt and willingness to do defense yun ang problema..we were defeated in 2017 desoite the giod pekmise because as we crammed our preoarations,co ditioning and defensive schemes eh di na sho hort cut..

[neo]

2012-2016 isnt golden, it was silver generation lll.. all korean great players from moon to seo jang hoon to bang sung yoon to oh seng keun can brag at least once they got an asian title and they battled the best versikn of china nt ( yao ming era) tayo eh..
Yup what we wanted is world class competitikn we already got it, up to the next level which is winning it all..

i still believe that d wings of china in d mid-90s to early 2000s (8th place, 1994 wc, 1996 olympics) are superior to the mid-2000s to current.

[neo]

The aystem is there for 10 years now..its up to the maturity of players..the only thing that makes preparations longer for me is top level conditioning, yun sisyema alam mo na.. pero yun effirt and willingness to do defense yun ang problema..we were defeated in 2017 desoite the giod pekmise because as we crammed our preoarations,co ditioning and defensive schemes eh di na sho hort cut..

nah, i'd say lack of talent in center and sg positions doomed us in 2015. d only conditioning that mattered then was that of blatche, but i still believe that it was more of getting a call in d eve of the game that led to his worst game of d tourney.

[reamily]

Pba can do fast conferences if they wanted and have 3 minth off season, ngayun pandemic we realized that having pba in 3 times a week format wouldnt cut it in marketing standpoint