Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[IPC]

Is this new iteration of Gilas looking up to be Asia's answer to the 2004 Detroit Pistons? No superstars but still won a championship with their defense.

RJ offensive skillset is already pba superstar potential (you can look at it as positive or negative as jio jalalon possesses the same potential at much older age), Dwight Ramos trajectory is a Matthew Wright lite offense with Jared Dillinger like defense/toughness, Kai Sotto is the best nba prospect that we had and he's 7 footer..Baltazar was the best 6'8 and above forward (not center/s) local prospect that we have since Japeth Aguilar and we call this team superstar less..

Rajko Toroman will crave for the talent Tab at his disposal..ni hindi nga niya na utilize fully si Slaughter and never got Junmar Fajardo and we having issues on Christian Standhardinger eligibility since he played for German youth team..and all 3 of them are considered to be impactful gilas players na even at the time og gilas 1 (2009-2011)

Then perhaps more like the 2019 Raptors team that shocked the Warriors superteam? Although, KD and Klay were injured so some people kinda put an asterisk to that championship by the Raps.

The Pistons were superstarless, but they did have 4 stars in Chauncey, Rip Hamilton, and the Wallace boys.

I do hope reamily's right that some of our boys have at least Asian superstar potential, and I hope we realize that. But yeah, our talent, with the help of a disciplined defense, was actually good enough to keep in step with the Korean youth movement and some pros. Now let's see in the OQT and the FIBA Asia Cup.

Even if we do get superstars, I still hope Tab continues to make defense our calling card for future iterations of Gilas.

As for the Raps, their pressing 1-3-1 which shifts to a box-and-one might be a good model. Plus they're also disciplined defensively.

[lurklurk]

I am feeling navarro as a dark horse contender to start as our 3 come 2023 world cup. His defensive iq and familiarity with our system as well as his length and activity impresses me. Just needs to be more consistent with his outside shot and he is set. I would be watching closely for signs of his improvements in this area in the following games.

His potential skillset fits the clarkson-ramos backcourt perfectly, defensively and offensively.

[jasper222]

I am feeling navarro as a dark horse contender to start as our 3 come 2023 world cup. His defensive iq and familiarity with our system as well as his length and activity impresses me. Just needs to be more consistent with his outside shot and he is set. I would be watching closely for signs of his improvements in this area in the following games.

His potential skillset fits the clarkson-ramos backcourt perfectly, defensively and offensively.

Navarro's 3 and athleticism are the things I'd like him to work on to prepare for 2023. If he gets those down, he'll be our starting 3 for sure.

[lurklurk]

Navarro's 3 and athleticism are the things I'd like him to work on to prepare for 2023. If he gets those down, he'll be our starting 3 for sure.

For me he lacks strength more than athelticism. He is quick, can change direction laterally, and can jump naman. Agree with his 3-ball as one of his main deficiencies as of now.

His closest competition right now is balti (needs to develop defensive instincts in the perimeter) and clarkson, if tab plays him as a 3. I think navarro is ways away from being a sure starter even if he develops the things we mentioned above, but he’s a darkhorse contender for sure.

[IPC]

I saw Puerto Rico-Greece game in the Acropolis Cup the other night:

Puerto Rico starters:

G Browne 6'1
G Clavell 6'4
F Pineiro 6'7
C Conditt 6'11
C Diaz 6'11

Greece starters:

G Lountzis 6'5
G Sloukas 6'6
F Rogkavopoulos 6'8
F Mitoglou 6'11
C Kavvadas 6'9

IMO, size-wise, the Gilas starters that we used in the Korean matches were much closer to the starters of Puerto Rico minus athleticism:

G Belangel 5'10
G Dwight 6'4
F Navarro 6'6
F Baltazar 6'8
C Kouame 6'11

Nice job on Tab's part to build a team that's appropriately-sized for international competition. This is a good first step.

Making this the norm for Philippine basketball will be difficult, though.

[lurklurk]

Nice job on Tab's part to build a team that's appropriately-sized for international competition. This is a good first step.

Making this the norm for Philippine basketball will be difficult, though.

Aside from KP, note that all of our tallest eligible wings (navarro, balti, tamayo even lopez) are in this current roster. Contiuous development of this 3 or 4 guys is key to sustain our size.

[IPC]

Any chance Troy would have been developed into the kind of player that Baltazar is right now with Gilas if Troy had been under coach Tab's system during his early 20's?

Given the success with Baltazar and Tamayo (albeit a small sample size), it's more than likely that Troy would have developed into a Baltazar-type. He would have been more versatile and less of a defensive liability.

Shame that TNT can't properly develop guys like Troy. He's just a stretch 4 who's active on the glass and is a defensive liability. He can't create that well too. TNT also limited Mo Tautuua, and when he left, doon lumabas ang laro niya.

It's the team he's with, e. Stretch 4's, and nothing else.

[mathematicianrcg]

Given the success with Baltazar and Tamayo (albeit a small sample size), it's more than likely that Troy would have developed into a Baltazar-type. He would have been more versatile and less of a defensive liability.

Shame that TNT can't properly develop guys like Troy. He's just a stretch 4 who's active on the glass and is a defensive liability. He can't create that well too. TNT also limited Mo Tautuua, and when he left, doon lumabas ang laro niya.

It's the team he's with, e. Stretch 4's, and nothing else.

More than TNT who have numerous coaches like jong, nash racela, and dickel.

It is actually Troy's development in his HS and College Days. He won a championship with NU being an undersized Big, or a Stretch 4.

For me, pba teams cannot do so much in the development of their rookies. Because the age of rookies in pba are like 26-30 above.

That is literally prime or veteran player in other leagues.

As for MO, yeah. His game doesn't fit TNT's system

[IPC]

Troy is actually the first player Tab tried convert from big to SF when he first handled Gilas. You could see even then how important it was for Tab to get a tall wing even if that wing played PF all his life. He played Blatche, June Mar and Troy in the crucial stretch against NZ. Unfortunately, at that time it failed. Maybe it was still too early for them in Tab's system. But you could just imagine if Tab's program was continued. Troy would have been a true blue SF by now. June Mar would have been a lean mean fighting machine. Unfortunately, you can't simply change the minds of the basketball powers that be. The good thing is, Tab's recent success is proving him right. He has more leverage now to pursue his vision of how Philippine basketball should be.

I hope Tab's vision can someday be a general rule in basketball, especially when it comes to team play and cohesive defense.

In fact, Tab's giving this team the same identity as Ateneo's: a primarily defensive team with an emphasis on team play, going to the creativity of the stars only when needed.

[IshmaelM]

For me he lacks strength more than athelticism. He is quick, can change direction laterally, and can jump naman. Agree with his 3-ball as one of his main deficiencies as of now.

His closest competition right now is balti (needs to develop defensive instincts in the perimeter) and clarkson, if tab plays him as a 3. I think navarro is ways away from being a sure starter even if he develops the things we mentioned above, but he’s a darkhorse contender for sure.

I think Navarro moves more naturally in the perimeter than Balti because I think he played in the perimeter growing up in Greece. While Balti was pegged as a big ever since he was discovered in HS. But even then Balti's length, height and relative strength trumps Navarro when matching up against bigger teams. Navarro can still improve though and might even be good enough to play some SG. Unless Balti stops improving I think the big SF position is his to lose.

[IPC]

most of our players get lost on defensive schemes. Try rewatching our games during WC against European teams. They just aren't used to Euro style basketball. Decades of playing on PBA will do that to ya

Unfortunately, for our defense to improve in the pros, we will have to get used to a European offense which relies on shooting as one of their primary weapons to win. Ginebra was one of the best 3-point shooting teams last season, but they don't take that many threes. TNT takes a lot of threes, but they're not that good at making them.

As long as we're not that good at shooting and movement, we won't get used to defending perimeter-oriented Euro-style offenses. We'll just get used to packing the paint and praying that the shooters miss.

[IPC]

The pro vets don't necessarily have to come from PBA,
Clarkson, Thirdy and Kiefer (assuming not in PBA)
would suffice

BTW that is model (getting players from overseas leagues) that is more commonly used by good national teams.

Players playing overseas actually have more experience in FIBA level type of ball

Hopefully, many of the non-Gilas draftees wil eventually go abroad (Japan, probably Korea, China, and Australia) to play professionally.

As for the Gilas draftees, I hope some sign one-year contracts with their mother teams and then try going abroad. Tungcab got an offer from the B.League, I think some of the others can get that kind of offer too.

[thatweirdguy]

Actually all PBA teams failed to develop more wings, guys like Canaleta, Intal, Escotto, Maierhoffer, Guevarra, etc.. could be develop into wing players ala Baltazar, But PBA coaches put them all as stretch 4, Or sometimes small ball 5.. Look at now Roosevelt Adams on how Terrafirma did it to him? Wing yan then all of suddenly ginagawa syang stretch 4.. I'm sure Malonzo will be the next victim of poor PBA development...

Hoping they don't mess up Oftana and Navarro's development.

[Money]

Actually all PBA teams failed to develop more wings, guys like Canaleta, Intal, Escotto, Maierhoffer, Guevarra, etc.. could be develop into wing players ala Baltazar, But PBA coaches put them all as stretch 4, Or sometimes small ball 5.. Look at now Roosevelt Adams on how Terrafirma did it to him? Wing yan then all of suddenly ginagawa syang stretch 4.. I'm sure Malonzo will be the next victim of poor PBA development...

Canaleta and Intal were used as wings during their prime. Heck Canaleta was even used as a 2 - 3 during his prime years.

Guevarra didn't have a good career but he wasn't a 4. he was always a guard in college up to the PBA.

Maierhofer and Escoto were 4s in college.

Mali mali mga sinasabi mo. Canaleta was only used as a stretch 4 with BWE because of lack of big men.

Adams was the only exception. Wing player talaga yan na ginamit as a 4.

[IshmaelM]

Guevarra could be a good wing guy if coach Bo use him right in Powerade, Or coach Olsen Racela at Petron days.. But the thing eh they don't know how to use him.. coach Toroman use him right when he was in Gilas 1, especially in Jones Cup 2010.. He was decent.. He was forced to join the PBA draft due to monetary issues.. Maierhoffer and Escotto could be a wing if our local coaches are not dumb dude.. Baltazar is a 4 in his early UAAP days.. But look how Baldwin use him? Maierhoffer and Escotto has potential to be wing... But what our local coaches do? ginawang stretch 4.. Puta eh ginawa pa nga sentro ni coach Leo yang si Escotto last season eh... Makikipagtalo kapa sakin eh i'm more Gilas fan than PBA fan... Canaleta was a 3 before, But because our local coaches are dumb eh kung anu anong position pinaggawa nila kay Canaleta until he forced to play now stretch 4.. Last season eh ginawa pa nga yang 5 eh.. It's all local coaches fault.. How can you explain Ferrer and Belo? These two are used to be a wing man back in college, But because of poor development of our local PBA coaches eh naging stretch 4 sila hanggang sa nabano na.. That's why we are only relying on Norwood as only best SF because our local coaches are poor on develop wing players..

Belo was a 4/3 in college if I remember correctly. Pogoy was the 3. But he moved well amd had a smooth perimeter shot. In the PBA he thought he needed to get bigger and stronger to play in the paint. That was his major mistake. He was known more for his perimeter shots than being strong in the paint. He shouldve focused on his handles to be a real SF. Instead he bulked up and went hard in the paint. He is a cautionary tale for adding muscle to get stronger in the paint.

Well, Ferrer was overrated. He had the height and length to defend the perimeter but his whole college he just camped in the 3 pt line. And I think the refs gave him leeway just so somebody could stop Parks. I didnt see his games but from Parks complaints I dont think Ferrers defense is up too par internationally.

In the PBA, I guess the physicality is so that 6'4 and above SFs need to bulk up in order to survive and many times become PFs. The PBA needs to reexamine itself. Pinoy basketball needs taller wings to become internationally relevant. Instead what we have in the Philippines are undersized PFs.