Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[CoJ]

for reference, here's the FIBA 2019 WC stats regarding sorted by rebounds (total)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/fiba-world-cup/2019.html

Spain, Argentina and Australia as top 3 rebounding teams, best rebounding Asian team is China at no. 23 Philippines listed as 29

in terms of average rebound per game Korea is listed at no 5, Philippines @ 20, US, Nigeria and NZ as top 3

https://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/teamstats

edit:

during the 2014 FIBA Worlds, Gilas was the 5th best rebounding team (ave), but Korea and Iran were on the bottom 5

https://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2014/teamstats

[CoJ]

Still wondering where did scout get their number about rebounding or they just look our size and then decided we are weak rebounders.

a bit OT but there are instances where a simple eye test would not suffice in scouting talent

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/...sian-american-representation-10th-anniversary

He looked “unathletic.” As then-Rockets GM Daryl Morey explained to author Michael Lewis in his book The Undoing Project in 2016, Lin lit up the team’s evaluative model ahead of the 2010 draft, assigning his value at the 15th pick, which would have placed him just outside the lottery. But Morey and Co. weren’t prepared to place blind trust in their model; as an Asian American kid, Lin just didn’t pass the eye test. A year after Houston and every other team let Lin go undrafted, the Rockets began measuring the speed of a player’s first two steps, and Lin had the quickest first step of any player measured. “He’s incredibly athletic,” Morey told Lewis. “But the reality is that every ****ing person, including me, thought he was unathletic. And I can’t think of any reason for it other than he was Asian.”

[zairex]

a bit OT but there are instances where a simple eye test would not suffice in scouting talent

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/...sian-american-representation-10th-anniversary

He looked “unathletic.” As then-Rockets GM Daryl Morey explained to author Michael Lewis in his book The Undoing Project in 2016, Lin lit up the team’s evaluative model ahead of the 2010 draft, assigning his value at the 15th pick, which would have placed him just outside the lottery. But Morey and Co. weren’t prepared to place blind trust in their model; as an Asian American kid, Lin just didn’t pass the eye test. A year after Houston and every other team let Lin go undrafted, the Rockets began measuring the speed of a player’s first two steps, and Lin had the quickest first step of any player measured. “He’s incredibly athletic,” Morey told Lewis. “But the reality is that every ****ing person, including me, thought he was unathletic. And I can’t think of any reason for it other than he was Asian.”

This is what I mean. Its insular thinking that because a team lack size they are weak rebounding.

[DAdmiral]

This is what I mean. Its insular thinking that because a team lack size they are weak rebounding.

It's not the size , (Lin actually has good size as a PG) but length and activity to cover space (motor) There actually hustle stats and defensive metrics that monitor these things. Both Chot and Tab are not insular but have very good bacis for the assessment that both defense and rebounding is a general (not always) weakness among Aaian teams. FOR the nth time it's not rebounding alone but mostly defense

Anyway in terms of rebounds in the World Cup Coj has already posted above the stats confirming that general on average (not always). ASIAN teams are rated low in rebounding

[IPC]

It's not the size , (Lin actually has good size as a PG) but length and activity to cover space (motor) There actually hustle stats and defensive metrics that monitor these things. Both Chot and Tab are not insular but have very good bacis for the assessment that both defense and rebounding is a general (not always) weakness among Aaian teams. FOR the nth time it's not rebounding alone but mostly defense

Anyway in terms of rebounds in the World Cup Coj has already posted above the stats confirming that general on average (not always). ASIAN teams are rated low in rebounding

I think offensive and defensive rebounding percentages are still better metrics, better than the raw rebounding numbers. Unfortunately, FIBA doesn't show those kind of numbers yet, as well as 3pt rate, offensive and defensive ratings, etc.

[zairex]

It's not the size , (Lin actually has good size as a PG) but length and activity to cover space (motor) There actually hustle stats and defensive metrics that monitor these things. Both Chot and Tab are not insular but have very good bacis for the assessment that both defense and rebounding is a general (not always) weakness among Aaian teams. FOR the nth time it's not rebounding alone but mostly defense

Anyway in terms of rebounds in the World Cup Coj has already posted above the stats confirming that general on average (not always). ASIAN teams are rated low in rebounding

You didnt even look at the stat. TRB, 4 African nation are bottom of it. Worst than Asian. Where are the articles saying Asian are worst rebounding?

Also, It like how Quinito Henson analyze best defense by looking only at opponent scored allowed only. Alot of modern basketball doesn't look at Points against total without looking at pace of team to evaluate defense.

[IPC]

I computed our offensive and defensive ratings in the FIBA Asia qualifiers, and it turned out that we had an offensive rating of 118, and a defensive rating of 91. It accounted for number of possessions, not just the raw numbers. Those are excellent ratings, though they were inflated by the fact that we faced Indonesia and Thailand. My threshold for good ORtg is I think around 110-112, and DRtg is 108-106.

However, adjusted against SoKor, we have an offensive rating of 113 and a defensive rating of 108. Pretty decent, actually. 113 is a good ORtg, and 108 is a good DRtg.

For the FIBA Asia 2015 and 2017 games, that will be tough. I would have to get a lot of numbers, considering that we played 9 in 2015 and 6 in 2017.

[IPC]

I computed our offensive and defensive ratings in the FIBA Asia qualifiers, and it turned out that we had an offensive rating of 118, and a defensive rating of 91. It accounted for number of possessions, not just the raw numbers. Those are excellent ratings, though they were inflated by the fact that we faced Indonesia and Thailand. My threshold for good ORtg is I think around 110-112, and DRtg is 108-106.

However, adjusted against SoKor, we have an offensive rating of 113 and a defensive rating of 108. Pretty decent, actually. 113 is a good ORtg, and 108 is a good DRtg.

For the FIBA Asia 2015 and 2017 games, that will be tough. I would have to get a lot of numbers, considering that we played 9 in 2015 and 6 in 2017.

For the 2015 FIBA Asia Championship, we had an offensive rating of 112.7 and a defensive rating of 89.1. This makes that campaign one of our best defensive stretches ever.

Also, re: rebounding, we boasted a high 33.4% ORB%, while we had a defensive rebound percentage of 71.3%, which is kinda low, as we gave up a 28.7% ORB%.

[Rds]

I think offensive and defensive rebounding percentages are still better metrics, better than the raw rebounding numbers. Unfortunately, FIBA doesn't show those kind of numbers yet, as well as 3pt rate, offensive and defensive ratings, etc.

I agree. The difference between offensive and defensive ratings should be the basis as I think those are adjusted by pace. I am not too high on rebounding as the most important metrics. I'd rather have a better defensive rating. It doesn't matter if you give offensive boards here and there if you still are able to stop them. I think that could be influence anyway by fielding in a bigger lineup. I suspect we had a better rebounding rating against Korea than against the Abdullah cup teams. It doesn't mean all the Abdullah cup teams are better than Korea. Far from it. There are a lot of reasons. Number one would be we didn't have Kai. Even off the bench he skews the rebounding numbers both defensive and offensive. On offense he often is the tallest guy on the court and volleyballs the ball to himself. On defense, he is not strong or fundamental at boxing out at times but his sheer height allows him to snatch rebounds off the rim.

So I am not sweating the rebound numbers as much. Even with no PBA guys if we trot out a 5 of Dave, Dwight, Balti, Kouame and Kai we will be getting a lot of boards.

[IPC]

I agree. The difference between offensive and defensive ratings should be the basis as I think those are adjusted by pace. I am not too high on rebounding as the most important metrics. I'd rather have a better defensive rating. I doesn't matter if you give offensive boards here and then if you still are able to stop them. I think that could be influence anyway by fielding in a bigger lineup. I suspect we had a better rebounding rating against Korea than against the Abdullah cup teams. It doesn't mean all the Abdullah cup teams are better than Korea. Far from it. There are a lot of reasons. Number one would be we didn't have Kai. Even off the bench he skews the rebounding numbers both defensive and offensive. On offense he often is the tallest guy on the court and volleyballs the ball to himself. On defense, he is not strong or fundamental at boxing out at times but his sheer height allows him to snatch rebounds off the rim.

So I am not sweating the rebound numbers as much. Even with no PBA guys if we trot out a 5 of Dave, Dwight, Balti, Kouame and Kai we will be getting a lot of boards.

We did have better rebound percentages against SoKor than against the MENA teams. We had a 30% ORB% against SoKor, while we gave up a 32% ORB%. That's nothing compared to the freakish rebounding percentages we gave up against the MENA teams.

In the King's Cup, we gave up a whopping 46% offensive rebounding percentage in the first game against Jordan, while we only grabbed 26% of available offensive rebounds. The first game against Tunisia, we gave up a 36% offensive rebounding percentage, while we grabbed 33%. Role reversal in the second game, where we gave up 33% while we grabbed 35%.

[IPC]

I computed our offensive and defensive ratings in the FIBA Asia qualifiers, and it turned out that we had an offensive rating of 118, and a defensive rating of 91. It accounted for number of possessions, not just the raw numbers. Those are excellent ratings, though they were inflated by the fact that we faced Indonesia and Thailand. My threshold for good ORtg is I think around 110-112, and DRtg is 108-106.

However, adjusted against SoKor, we have an offensive rating of 113 and a defensive rating of 108. Pretty decent, actually. 113 is a good ORtg, and 108 is a good DRtg.

For the FIBA Asia 2015 and 2017 games, that will be tough. I would have to get a lot of numbers, considering that we played 9 in 2015 and 6 in 2017.

For the 2017 FIBA Asia Cup, we had an ORtg of 110.2, which is good, but on the other end, we had a high DRtg of 113.4. As for rebound rates, we had a 31.2% ORB%, and a 63.5% DRB%. What's more, we allowed an FG% of 47.1%.

Our defense was terrible that tournament.

[CoJ]

Does Gilas have a analytics team or expert in its staff? I hope they have as their input is very vital, locally i think only BGSM and Alaska had employed a analytics staff (faculty and graduate students from DLSU i think)

https://www.bworldonline.com/sports-analytics-in-the-moneyball-era/

[Stevy]

For the 2017 FIBA Asia Cup, we had an ORtg of 110.2, which is good, but on the other end, we had a high DRtg of 113.4. As for rebound rates, we had a 31.2% ORB%, and a 63.5% DRB%. What's more, we allowed an FG% of 47.1%.

Our defense was terrible that tournament.

As long as we maintain our defensive identity, then I don't really mind what type of offense we employ (Just no more 6'2-6'3 SF please Coach chot). I will give it until the June window before I start to worry if we defend terribly this week.

Does Gilas have a analytics team or expert in its staff? I hope they have as their input is very vital, locally i think only BGSM and Alaska had employed a analytics staff (faculty and graduate students from DLSU i think)

https://www.bworldonline.com/sports-...moneyball-era/

They should be. It would be terribly incompetent on their end if they didn't.

[IPC]

For the 2015 FIBA Asia Championship, we had an offensive rating of 112.7 and a defensive rating of 89.1. This makes that campaign one of our best defensive stretches ever.

Also, re: rebounding, we boasted a high 33.4% ORB%, while we had a defensive rebound percentage of 71.3%, which is kinda low, as we gave up a 28.7% ORB%.

Adjusted only to include the games against Japan, Lebanon, Iran, and China, I got the following numbers:

ORtg: 107.7
FG: 41.9%
3PT: 33.6%
ORB%: 29.3%

DRtg: 98.6
OppFG: 39.0%
Opp3PT: 29.8%
DRB%: 67.9%

Our defense was good against these teams. Sure, we had a low ORtg and FG% , and an average 3PT%, but we forced our opponents to have lower numbers in those ratings. The concerning number is the rebound rate, though. Sure, we grabbed a lot of offensive rebounds (29.3%), but we gave up more (32.1%) to our opponent.

[zairex]

For the 2017 FIBA Asia Cup, we had an ORtg of 110.2, which is good, but on the other end, we had a high DRtg of 113.4. As for rebound rates, we had a 31.2% ORB%, and a 63.5% DRB%. What's more, we allowed an FG% of 47.1%.

Our defense was terrible that tournament.

Attribute that for lack of practice. Thank you for doing the numbers. Much appreciated.