Fiba World Cup 2023 Philippines

[DAdmiral]

I do get wanting to be grouped with NZ rather than Finland or DR from seed 5.. (assuming Nz from Asia Pacific region can be grouped with an Asian team). Nz after all is more familiar to Asian teams rather than Finland and DR and is unlikely to have an NBA player .

The position of teams is seed 5 are actually good , as beating a mid tier team from seed 4 is certainly very achievable.

[FilWelsh]

Adams was all set to join World cup , I think 2024 OQT is now the target

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketball/300859863/steven-adams-knee-injury-casts-dark-cloud-over-proposed-end-to-tall-blacks-exile

I have doubts that Aquaman will play for Kiwis this coming World Cup. It will put him to bad taste with Memphis management if playing too soon shortly after rehab from injury. I understand his urgency this time as he does not want to disappoint his country and his fellow Maori Pero Cameron. But delicadeza with Grizzlies is definitely on his mind so would count him out for NZ.

[DAdmiral]

after looking at the draw procedures , teams in pot 3, 5 and 7 are hoping they will be grouped with Gilas... for teams in pot 3 and 5 it means two of their 1st round opponents are lower ranked .. (Gilas and team from pot 7)

Essentially teams would have won the draw lottery if Gilas is grouped with them in 1st round

[Giannis34GOD]

after looking at the draw procedures , teams in pot 3, 5 and 7 are hoping they will be grouped with Gilas... for teams in pot 3 and 5 it means two of their 1st round opponents are lower ranked .. (Gilas and team from pot 7)

Essentially teams would have won the draw lottery if Gilas is grouped with them in 1st round

Well, some goes to NZL as well... teams in POT 3 wants to be have Gilas and NZL as their groupmates... In POT 5... Iran and NZL are weakest links there... but because having Iran in the group it means they will also bracket with either USA, Australia or Spain... Remember, first round results will carry over in 2nd round... Greece, Italy and Germany wants to avoid USA, Spain or Australia... having 3-0 in first round will have a big advantage to advance to 2nd round as well... So it means if they want Gilas as their group mates, that means the next team that they want is NZL... Finland and DR are on the roll and having NBA stars such as KAT or Markannen will give them a hard time even in 1st round... Maybe you will think why not Iran? For sure they want Iran too... but because Gilas and Iran can't be groupmates because they are both Asians, but that means they will have an early encounter either USA, Spain or Australia too... While if they want Gilas, next thing they wanted is to be with NZL rather than DR w/ KAT or Finland w/ Markannen... Actually, even Gilas fans wants NZL in Group A... THey will have a hard time against FInland and DR... while they will have atleast a big shot vs NZL due to familiarity and possibly Gilas having JC and Kai vs Full strength NZL... Filipino fans here in forum long wanted to see that full strength Gilas vs Full strength NZL in this crucial encounter... I hope it will happens....

[DAdmiral]

While DR and Finland may seem to be better in paper due to NBA players compared to NZL , it isn't necessarily a sure thing (NZ actually has more consistent World cup performances compared to the 2) . At best one can argue the slightly more common preference is to play NZL (not by much).

Iran in pot 5 is who everyone wants in their group assuming Philippines (an Asian team is not already in group)

Obviously this is not the same case when comparing teams in Pot 1 (1 seed ), Gilas by far (not close) is everyone's preference to be co group mates from pot 1. (Not Spain ,US, Australia )

[Giannis34GOD]

While DR and Finland may seem to be better in paper due to NBA players compared to NZL , it isn't necessarily a sure thing (NZ actually has more consistent World cup performances compared to the 2) . At best one can argue the slightly more common preference is to play NZL (not by much).

Iran in pot 5 is who everyone wants in their group assuming Philippines (an Asian team is not already in group)

Obviously this is not the same case when comparing teams in Pot 1 (1 seed ), Gilas by far (not close) is everyone's preference to be co group mates from pot 1. (Not Spain ,US, Australia )

Finland is a top 8 Eurobasket team last year... They are very tough team plus a sensational season of Markannen, Same as DR, Who beat Argentina last qualifiers, plus adding KAT is huge.... I think you didn't know how to procedures work.... Sure they want Iran as POT 5 opponent, but as FIBA rules said that PHL and Iran can't be groupmates then the next team that they can manage to beat is NZL.... Sure POT 3 and POT 5 teams wants PHL... Even your NZL wants PHL group too... Having Iran as their groupmate it means they will also face top 3 teams in USA, Spain or Australia in 1st round... In current format, 1st round record will be carry over, It means if you have 3-0 record before entering 2nd round it means they will have a big advantage going to 2nd round... That's why it's a double edge sword having pick Iran in POT 5.... They can be 2-1 but it will be harder route going to Playoff stages... That's why the best pick for those POT 3 teams are Gilas and NZL... both can manage by them to register a win and getting a 3-0 advantage easily than having DR or Finland in their group... A lot of Greek, Italian and German basketball fans are picking PHL and NZL as their groupmates... Sorry dude, Your NZL is not heavily respected by European fans, unlike DR ( plus KAT) and Finland (plus Markannen).... Even Gilas fans wants NZL than DR and Finland.... They think that they have a chance to get in 2nd round if NZL will be in Group A than DR or Finland....

[DAdmiral]

That's all common knowledge already, I've repeated it many times already in recent post , ( stating I can see why many will prefer NZL over Finland or DR), this isn't however a unanimous opinion. It's not just based on paper . (What you're arguing has already been admitted by me ) however selecting Gilas for Pot 1 is a unanimous choice ( not even close and not arguable)

Now for none Asian teams, of course Iran in Pot 5 is the preference , obviously the Philippines for pot 1 is the first preference, but if that is not picked (remember there is a 88 % chance none Asian teams in Pot 3 and 7 to pick another team from pot 1 and 2 . So for those 7 out of 8 teams who didn't pick Philippines of course they prefer Iran from Pot 5.
common knowledge... you're arguing citing about nothing.

Essentially the Asian teams that are in the top 6 pots are prefered opponents. As they're seeded higher yet histor8cally and reputation do not do well . This is not the case for NZL thst is seeded appropriately (seed 5) based on reputation.

gilas is the outliner being seeded 1, while Iran we all-know has a high rank in FiBA rankings due to benefit of belong in Aaia , but perform bad in World competition

[Giannis34GOD]

That's all common knowledge already, I've repeated it many times already in recent post , ( stating I can see why many will prefer NZL over Finland or DR), this isn't however a unanimous opinion. It's not just based on paper . (What you're arguing has already been admitted by me ) however selecting Gilas for Pot 1 is a unanimous choice ( not even close and not arguable)

Now for none Asian teams, of course Iran in Pot 5 is the preference , obviously the Philippines for pot 1 is the first preference, but if that is not picked (remember there is a 88 % chance none Asian teams in Pot 3 and 7 to pick another team from pot 1 and 2 . So for those 7 out of 8 teams who didn't pick Philippines of course they prefer Iran from Pot 5.
common knowledge... you're arguing citing about nothing.

Essentially the Asian teams that are in the top 6 pots are prefered opponents. As they're seeded higher yet histor8cally and reputation do not do well . This is not the case for NZL thst is seeded appropriately (seed 5) based on reputation.

gilas is the outliner being seeded 1, while Iran we all-know has a high rank in FiBA rankings due to benefit of belong in Aaia , but perform bad in World competition

NZL over Finland or DR? Cmon dude!!!!! Don't put your team as being as good as those teams... They are playing in a high level competition in other continental zones..... Finland is top 8 team in Eurobasket... If NZL plays in Eurobasket, they will be in level as Iceland or Bulgaria... No offense to your team, Your team benefit by being regular fixture at WC because in Oceania, only NZL and Australia plays there.... That's a fact... You can go to other forum and no one thinking NZL as same level as some teams in Europe or Americas.... Yeah, we know that PHL is an outliner here and originally they should be in POT 7 atleast in paper.... But we are going to follow how the draw procedures work... Sure, Iran will be a top target for Euro and Americas team, But they are also thinking who are those teams Iran will be bracket with... Did you not understand the procedures of draw bro.... Iran and PHL can't be grouped each other, So that's Cross mark already... That's why next best thing they pick is NZL since PHL and NZL can be group each other.... Iran's possible groupmates are USA, Spain and Australia... those Euro teams want to avoid those countries... Just follow the procedures of draw and not being bias for your team....

[carmelo7]

If NZ is part of Eurobasket we may never see them again in both World basketball and Olympics, not even with Adams playing (not even close and not arguable) Lol

[CoJ]

If NZ is part of Eurobasket we may never see them again in both World basketball and Olympics, not even with Adams playing (not even close and not arguable) Lol

i hope someone here posts the record of NZ against Euro and Latin American teams, my hunch is that its just a few notches above Asian teams. NZ, though better than Asia’s best, is not on the same tier as mid level Euro teams

[DAdmiral]

i hope someone here posts the record of NZ against Euro and Latin American teams, my hunch is that its just a few notches above Asian teams. NZ, though better than Asia’s best, is not on the same tier as mid level Euro teams

Based on purely world cup performance (not level of talent or performance outside world cup ) indeed over the last decade NZL results are similar to 2nd tier Euro teams and 2nd tier Americas teams . The record results are all there. (Look below)

2010 - NZ beat Canada and France
2014 , NZ beat Ukraine and Finland
2019 , NZ beat Turkey and Montenegro

This is obviously not the case for any Asian team..(winless vs Euro since 2010)

BTW I keep insisting thst I actually agree NZL is the preference beatable team over Finalnd and DR , so where is bias there ? Yes Gilas is right to prefer Nz , Just being objective. (This is not the question, it's who do the other teams prefer)

What is not objective is to say Asian teams in Pot 1 and pot 5 are not the unanimous preferred team to be part of one's group for the draw (obviously only if allowed by procedure, note for groups not with Philippines selected of course Iran is allowed to join). Note 6 teams from pot 1,3, 7 not joining Philippines, can have Iran as their group mate. Obviously all those 6 teams would prefer Iran, all teams in Pot 1 not named Gilas prefer to play Iran from Pot 5.

This is all common known opinion ( nothing to argue really)

[DAdmiral]

If NZ is part of Eurobasket we may never see them again in both World basketball and Olympics, not even with Adams playing (not even close and not arguable) Lol

I agree..
which isn't what is being argued here..

Using the.logic it's also true if any Asian team played in Oceania where 1 Olympic spot is only available, NO Asian team would make the Olympics this century

[DAdmiral]

One of the things to realize is if Philippines does not finish top 2 in it's group it is unlikely to have a dream match up vs the US ..

[paolylo]

It's laughable how some (not all) still can't wrap their head around the draw procedures. Ang linaw na nga eh. If you're still debating whether or not we could draw NZ, bahala kayo diyan.

I'm sticking to my gut that just as China rigged their draw in 2019 to get the weakest teams possible, the SBP will do the same. The problem is if it comes down to either Angola or the Ivory Coast, both had a relatively easy time in qualifying from Africa where they all have improved since then (remember the Nigeran team that beat Team USA? they didn't even qualify).

If I were the SBP, I'd find a way to mark the balls for Brazil and Finland as opposed to Greece and DR. Brazil barely made it through qualifying in a campaign where they lost to Colombia and got blown the f out by Mexico. Finland even without Markkanen is your prototype European squad, they have several options for naturalized players but all of them are even older than Brownlee meaning they went for stability and familiarity than some young shot-creator who can complement Markkanen. That said, we can match up better with that compared to the DR who are just way too athletic and cohesive even without K.A.T. Forget Greece. Pustahan, magpapa-autograph mga hindot kay Giannis. Personally, I don't want Gilas to face NZ just because they are more familiar with Gilas than all those other teams. *edit also, Gilas don't have anything that NZ can counter. We saw glimpses of their first team and how they rendered our foreign-based players like Kiefer, Dwight and RJ Abarrientos useless.

[DAdmiral]

Actually have no problem if some prefer for Gilas to play NZL rather than Finland or DR. (If they can be grouped together is dependent on what is the definition of same zone , is Asia Pacific same zone or is Oceania considered a separate zone ?, rather wait for clarity. It's kind of weird if the only team NZ can't be grouped with is Australia, especially knowing all of Asia Pacific zone just went to the same qualifiers, honestly it makes the rule kind of purposeless if Oceania is separate with just 2 teams)

Now back to preferring NZ , to me be careful what you ask for , do not assume that simply because NZ is less talented than DR and Finland that they will be weaker . It reminds me of how NZ was under estimated in the 2016 OQT in Manila simply cause of lack of known names or firepower. From the the perspective of someone who was in the staff of that NZ team , Gilas just has to many holes they can't match up with NZ . In a sense Gilas guard strength with lack of size and athleticism is a bad match up. Especially for a team like NZ thst is super familiar of these known weaknesses of Gilas and can fully exploit them. A team like Finland isn't familiar with exploiting these weaknesses, cause they seldom have a physical and athleticism advantage vs their opponents in Europe. NZ is very familiar. , their eyes open up when they see these disadvantages anyway it's just my perspective, I'm not saying I'm right. Just that do not underestimate this difference factor