Fiba World Cup 2023 Philippines

[IshmaelM]

Remind me again when Troy was in NU, he played with an African center?
I think a foreign big presence has helped his game to be more FIBA appropriate.
Who else is 6’6 ish from Philippine college that is a true stretch forward (. Not big developing outside shot in pros converted to be a stretch 4)

He did. Buy Troy is still a tweener. Like Arwind, he didnt develop the skills to drive the basket but is too soft to defend the post. That is why he has largely been a disappointment internationally. Arthur dela Cruz of Ginebra couldve been that player if not for injuries. Arvin Tolentino, if he gets his head screwed correctly, can be that player if he works on his handles and defense.

[TheRodster21]

Zion is a fluke. He played some games. Did well. But no way the human knee can take all that pounding without taking some damage. Thats why Euros slim down. That is the only way to improve your laterals. Unless you are lucky to have fast twitch muscles in abundance.

I think he needs to lose some weight, in the bubble he looked bigger somehow but slow. Lucky for him he’s probably mostly fast twitch, even when he was in Duke he was big but elastic and quick


Also wanted to point out only an outlier has been successful in postups, unless you have similar qualities it’s going to be tough to dominate a game with the postup play

[sajubeads]

He did. Buy Troy is still a tweener. Like Arwind, he didnt develop the skills to drive the basket but is too soft to defend the post. That is why he has largely been a disappointment internationally. Arthur dela Cruz of Ginebra couldve been that player if not for injuries. Arvin Tolentino, if he gets his head screwed correctly, can be that player if he works on his handles and defense.

Advantage of Troy though is he is 3 inches taller than Arthur andat least 2 inches taller than Arvin...

[IPC]

Advantage of Troy though is he is 3 inches taller than Arthur andat least 2 inches taller than Arvin...

And Arthur and Arvin play more like wings as well, and are also mobile. Troy can be like them, but he has to put in the work.

[digitalsuperman]

Zion is a fluke. He played some games. Did well. But no way the human knee can take all that pounding without taking some damage. Thats why Euros slim down. That is the only way to improve your laterals. Unless you are lucky to have fast twitch muscles in abundance.

i agree. i remember blake griffin. high flyer. but when he busted his knee he was not the same. good thing for blake he knew what he needed to do to add to his game.

[IPC]

Here are some of my crazy frontline combination ideas for the future, and there are possible experiments for these in the coming windows. I think this could be beneficial preparation for the coming Asia Cup and WC.

These are just raw sketches and ideal lineups. They may not be realistic given our situation (hence the word "crazy"). They can be subject to refinement by other forumers.

1. 2 wings at 3 and 4
- Our ideal small-ball lineup, reminiscent of the Heat and Celtics. Ateneo plays closest to this in the Philippines, and maybe Phoenix (Wright and Abueva at 3 and 4) and to an extent Ginebra (Aljon, Arvin and Dillinger at 4 and 3; when they're not running a 3-guard lineup).
- Bigger wing should be at least 6'5" so as not to sacrifice too much size.
- If the 5 is a big, he should be either mobile, big (6'9" above), versatile, two of three, or all of the above, so we don't sacrifice much. Otherwise, it's preferably a combo forward.

2. 2 combo forwards at 4 and 5
- Versatile forwards at 4 and 5, ala GSW.
- Both at least 6'6".
- Undersized, but they make up for it with versatility. Ideally, both forwards can guard and shoot from the perimeter, and can handle the ball

3. Combo forward-Big at 4 and 5
-Kind of our middle ground between small and traditional ball. I think TNT resembles this most in the PBA.
-Combo forward (at least 6'6") ideally provides versatility on both ends, being able to play inside and out.
-Big should be either mobile, big (6'9" above), versatile, two of three, or all of the above, so we don't sacrifice much.

4. 2-big combination at 4 and 5
-The traditional lineups.
-The smaller big has to be at least 6'7", mobile, and can stretch the floor, or at least able to guard the perimeter and switch.
-If the 4 is at least 6'7", the 5 is at least 6'9", or both, we can use some low-post action with either or both.
-We may sacrifice perimeter skill with this, and this may be useful only against teams with 4's and 5's not used to guarding the post.

[analyzed]

^
That's essentially the euro club model, the most promising kids play with pros. of course in the Philippines the pros are not necessary legit FIBA size, this is where you need to add foreign players to go against. As simple as it may seem, you only get better if you're playing against better competition.
Things will follow if more high school kids are exposed early to legit size competition and talent , more Div 1 colleges will recruit them., (why?) they would have demonstrated they can play at that level and size

[sajubeads]

And Arthur and Arvin play more like wings as well, and are also mobile. Troy can be like them, but he has to put in the work.

yes Art and Arvin are really 3 but force to play 4 as they are one of the tallest in thier team in HS and College

[IPC]

yes Art and Arvin are really 3 but force to play 4 as they are one of the tallest in thier team in HS and College

It's a good thing that even as 4's, they are allowed to play like wings. Arvin's been given a lot of freedom to operate from the perimeter in FEU and now Ginebra, and Art is even played as an off-guard when Ginebra goes big (well at least with Brownlee in the lineup).

I've made the point that even if Ginebra goes small, they play wings at the 4, and allow those wings to play like wings. Hope both of them see some good minutes against MERALCO.

[IPC]

Quite obvious what drives things in the Philippines, is commercial enterprise and competing against each other and using protectionst rules to control ones turf. It's distorted focus resulting in systemic flaws.

It is obviously not FIBA success that is the focus.
The public and average fan cannot see through this, they've literally been brainwashed and don't know better.
It is what those in power want to maintain, for obvious reasons.

Sometimes our nationalism is sorely misplaced. We were OK with the system back then in the 90s, we could medal in the Asian Games. But the context was different back then. We were so far ahead of everyone else in basketball. When the other Asian nations caught up, there. Our insular mindset got the best of us.

Protectionism is evident, even in coaching. Tim Cone, Ron Jacobs, now Tab. It's counterproductive. I hope we change this mentality in the future.

[IPC]

Well to be fair of Japan's WC results, all real Asian teams didn't do well as usual, Japan beat Iran and had a decent game vs Turkey. So they were actually much more competitive than the Philippines, which was litterally laughable embarrassing

God, it hurts just being reminded of that. Too painful to remember. What's more painful is, the other Asian powers are ready to move further forward, while we are still recovering from a major setback.

That's why I really hope Tab encounters as few issues as possible in getting the Gilas program back on track. Kai and Edu are good signs, we just need the players to complement them by the time the World Cup is here. Hopefully more good signs come. And hopefully we develop a system and the personnel that fit said system. This FIBA Asia qualifiers window is a good start. Fun times ahead, hopefully.

Hope the lineups set the standards for Philippine basketball.

[allmight]

This 2021 qualifiers is a case study. If Tab and Gilas manages to win without PBA I expect Tab to rely less and less on the PBA as his original plan was. But I doubt they can go on 100% w/o PBA help.

[IPC]

This 2021 qualifiers is a case study. If Tab and Gilas manages to win without PBA I expect Tab to rely less and less on the PBA as his original plan was. But I doubt they can go on 100% w/o PBA help.

Relying less and less on the PBA gives the program more upside. However, yeah, Tab needs PBA players for his plan, and they need to fit his plan. Hope as the qualifiers go on, we get an idea of what system he wants and what players fit his plan.

Well, for this window, lineup-wise, Tab is looking to use a lineup of two wings at the 3 and 4, given as the pool is wing-heavy. Case study for that as well. Hope that can turn into a viable option for Philippine basketball, and other coaches and teams adopt the system.

[mathematicianrcg]

Here are some of my crazy frontline combination ideas for the future, and there are possible experiments for these in the coming windows. I think this could be beneficial preparation for the coming Asia Cup and WC.

These are just raw sketches and ideal lineups. They may not be realistic given our situation (hence the word "crazy"). They can be subject to refinement by other forumers.

1. 2 wings at 3 and 4
- Our ideal small-ball lineup, reminiscent of the Heat and Celtics. Ateneo plays closest to this in the Philippines, and maybe Phoenix (Wright and Abueva at 3 and 4) and to an extent Ginebra (Aljon, Arvin and Dillinger at 4 and 3; when they're not running a 3-guard lineup).
- Bigger wing should be at least 6'5" so as not to sacrifice too much size.
- If the 5 is a big, he should be either mobile, big (6'9" above), versatile, two of three, or all of the above, so we don't sacrifice much. Otherwise, it's preferably a combo forward.

2. 2 combo forwards at 4 and 5
- Versatile forwards at 4 and 5, ala GSW.
- Both at least 6'6".
- Undersized, but they make up for it with versatility. Ideally, both forwards can guard and shoot from the perimeter, and can handle the ball

3. Combo forward-Big at 4 and 5
-Kind of our middle ground between small and traditional ball. I think TNT resembles this most in the PBA.
-Combo forward (at least 6'6") ideally provides versatility on both ends, being able to play inside and out.
-Big should be either mobile, big (6'9" above), versatile, two of three, or all of the above, so we don't sacrifice much.

4. 2-big combination at 4 and 5
-The traditional lineups.
-The smaller big has to be at least 6'7", mobile, and can stretch the floor, or at least able to guard the perimeter and switch.
-If the 4 is at least 6'7", the 5 is at least 6'9", or both, we can use some low-post action with either or both.
-We may sacrifice perimeter skill with this, and this may be useful only against teams with 4's and 5's not used to guarding the post.

Hmmmm.So basically, something like this

1. Dwight Ramos (3), Kobe Paras (4)

2. Kobe Paras (4), Troy Rosario (5)??? (THIS REALLY LOOKS BAD, AS I CANNOT THINK OF ANY THAT CAN REPLACE TROY IN THIS IDEA)

3 Kobe Paras (4), AJ Edu (5)

4. AJ Edu (4), Kai Sotto (5)

Actually, Can you name another 6'6 or above legit combo forwards besides paras???

A lot of hate on him in this forum. But he is actually one of the most versatile players we have.

[sajubeads]

Hmmmm.So basically, something like this

1. Dwight Ramos (3), Kobe Paras (4)

2. Kobe Paras (4), Troy Rosario (5)??? (THIS REALLY LOOKS BAD, AS I CANNOT THINK OF ANY THAT CAN REPLACE TROY IN THIS IDEA)

3 Kobe Paras (4), AJ Edu (5)

4. AJ Edu (4), Kai Sotto (5)

Actually, Can you name another 6'6 or above legit combo forwards besides paras???

A lot of hate on him in this forum. But he is actually one of the most versatile players we have.

Maybe Navarro..Only 6-5 Calvin Oftana. Maybe Justin Arana...

In 2 years time LeBron Lopez or Mason Amos...