Vogel a cheater ?

[karim]

Hello my iranian and lebanese friends , last night i was watching a video of hameds performance in the asia championship final and i saw a few things that i did not believe until i watched the video time and time again ....go to www.youtube.com and copy paste this in the search box "Hamed Hadadi Ehadadi Against Lebanon" ...each time kamrany cuts into the basket it is true that he is going through our player(omar el turk)but theres always another player recovering on him so there is no point for vogel to go out on him also and leave hadadi open alone for the easy dunk ....bad defence from vogel ? ok how about the offensive rebounds and put backs of haddadi ....i know vogel is a bad defensive player but he could atleast box out.....1 last thing i know everyone will agree on , look when the score was 52-49 before haddadis put back and when the score was 65-59 before aidins put back .......twice vogel was running before these 2 players back on he fast break but went and stood outside insead of going under the basket to protect it since hes the center of the team ...i am sorry guys but it looks like vogel is the losing the game on purpose to me , this is besides the fact that he kept choosing threes and missing on purpose ....i did not want to believe this because i respect vogel for all that he has done for lebanon in the past and the kind of gentleman professional that he seems to be but it looks like Iran payed vogel to lose the game on purpose and before any lebanese(vogel fans) or iranians(basketball fans)attack me , watch the video and see for yourselves...vogels performance was not bad but unexplainable unless ofcourse he was payed money to lose the game on purpose ......

[joesmoove059]

Hello my iranian and lebanese friends , last night i was watching a video of hameds performance in the asia championship final and i saw a few things that i did not believe until i watched the video time and time again ....go to www.youtube.com and copy paste this in the search box "Hamed Hadadi Ehadadi Against Lebanon" ...each time kamrany cuts into the basket it is true that he is going through our player(omar el turk)but theres always another player recovering on him so there is no point for vogel to go out on him also and leave hadadi open alone for the easy dunk ....bad defence from vogel ? ok how about the offensive rebounds and put backs of haddadi ....i know vogel is a bad defensive player but he could atleast box out.....1 last thing i know everyone will agree on , look when the score was 52-49 before haddadis put back and when the score was 65-59 before aidins put back .......twice vogel was running before these 2 players back on he fast break but went and stood outside insead of going under the basket to protect it since hes the center of the team ...i am sorry guys but it looks like vogel is the losing the game on purpose to me , this is besides the fact that he kept choosing threes and missing on purpose ....i did not want to believe this because i respect vogel for all that he has done for lebanon in the past and the kind of gentleman professional that he seems to be but it looks like Iran payed vogel to lose the game on purpose and before any lebanese(vogel fans) or iranians(basketball fans)attack me , watch the video and see for yourselves...vogels performance was not bad but unexplainable unless ofcourse he was payed money to lose the game on purpose ......

so is this a case of "game-fixing" we have here?? yeah I also doubted some defensive plays of Vogel, he gives room for haddadi to work.

[mohsena2631]

Another BS post from you, it is usual. but This is the stupidest post I ever seen.

it is your way not our own. it is not iran's fault if you naturalize a stupid player.
if we want to cheat, we can naturalize. but we never do it.

cheating is your way, are u forget 2004 WABA Champs ? i never forget it, NEVER

[nardy]

Without being disrespectful to the comments of our Lebanese friend, I do honestly feel that the Iran team would not be in any way pay in order to win in basketball. Iran have more important things to spend on than Basketball. Basketball is not even in the top 3 sports in Iran. But I do agree there might be point in suspecting Vogel of "game-fixing" but it would be too difficult to prove. If ever he did, it could have been the work of a gambling syndicate.
Anyway I might be wrong ..... it is only my opinion.

[spider]

if we want to cheat, we can naturalize. but we never do it.

this aint the first time you say this bullcrap,naturalising is not cheating,its fiba regulation.and this aint the subject

cheating is your way, are u forget 2004 WABA Champs ? i never forget it, NEVER

cheating is your way, are u forget 2002 U18 ASIA CUP? i never forget it, NEVER.

refresh your memory you and korea ok ???? once again you drift away from the topic....

[Charbel Sakr]

Hello my iranian and lebanese friends , last night i was watching a video of hameds performance in the asia championship final and i saw a few things that i did not believe until i watched the video time and time again ....go to www.youtube.com and copy paste this in the search box "Hamed Hadadi Ehadadi Against Lebanon" ...each time kamrany cuts into the basket it is true that he is going through our player(omar el turk)but theres always another player recovering on him so there is no point for vogel to go out on him also and leave hadadi open alone for the easy dunk ....bad defence from vogel ? ok how about the offensive rebounds and put backs of haddadi ....i know vogel is a bad defensive player but he could atleast box out.....1 last thing i know everyone will agree on , look when the score was 52-49 before haddadis put back and when the score was 65-59 before aidins put back .......twice vogel was running before these 2 players back on he fast break but went and stood outside insead of going under the basket to protect it since hes the center of the team ...i am sorry guys but it looks like vogel is the losing the game on purpose to me , this is besides the fact that he kept choosing threes and missing on purpose ....i did not want to believe this because i respect vogel for all that he has done for lebanon in the past and the kind of gentleman professional that he seems to be but it looks like Iran payed vogel to lose the game on purpose and before any lebanese(vogel fans) or iranians(basketball fans)attack me , watch the video and see for yourselves...vogels performance was not bad but unexplainable unless ofcourse he was payed money to lose the game on purpose ......

WOW this is shocking, i totally saw what u mean after watching the video. Notice how many shots he didnt bother to challenge? and how many times he tried to get out of the way!!!!!! now i totally understand why Fadi why pissed so much from him that day.

I think we should get a video of Lebanon vs. Iran in the 2nd round when we owned and see the difference not how many pts vogel scored here or there. blocks or rebs but just to see how was defending haddadi, i think this shit will be clearer by then

[Khalid80]

I personally don't believe in conspiracy theories and that's why such a topic is so vague and debatable.
I think we shouldn't keep referring to the past.
Iran beat us fair and square.
It's true that Ali Mahmoud's absence was greatly missed but we should get over it.
And alot of people said that Hamed played his best game ever against us and was lucky but look at where he is now (playing in the NBA with the Grizzlies).

I hope we work on forming a great team in the near future and let our players do their job on court and hopefully help us to qualify for the next World Championships.

[nardy]

I personally don't believe in conspiracy theories and that's why such a topic is so vague and debatable.
I think we shouldn't keep referring to the past.
Iran beat us fair and square.
It's true that Ali Mahmoud's absence was greatly missed but we should get over it.
And alot of people said that Hamed played his best game ever against us and was lucky but look at where he is now (playing in the NBA with the Grizzlies).

I hope we work on forming a great team in the near future and let our players do their job on court and hopefully help us to qualify for the next World Championships.

well said Khalid. You have many good upcoming young players so the future of Lebanese basketball is in good hands.

anyway if it would do any good, it seems Vogel might already be through with International Competitions and a new naturalized guy would be soon stepping in.

[Charbel Sakr]

I personally don't believe in conspiracy theories and that's why such a topic is so vague and debatable.
I think we shouldn't keep referring to the past.
Iran beat us fair and square.
It's true that Ali Mahmoud's absence was greatly missed but we should get over it.
And alot of people said that Hamed played his best game ever against us and was lucky but look at where he is now (playing in the NBA with the Grizzlies).

I hope we work on forming a great team in the near future and let our players do their job on court and hopefully help us to qualify for the next World Championships.

nice poetry man haha but lets be real for a second and watch that video.
I have like a zillion basketball games already and im sure u did too, i had some BIG and even HUGE question marks about vogel's performance after watching this video. im not talking about pts or rebs, just look how many times he doesnt even contest hamed's shots or rebs??

i forgot where in that video but i think between 3:00 and 4:00 on transition D vogel moves intentioanlly away from the basket instead of goin directly to it to defend or get the reb, he is the center right???

what im saying here is that he didnt have a bad game or something but some of the things he has done in that game cant be explained in any other way thaan what Karim said. And if u have an explanation to what vogel has done in that game (i mean not contesting hamed shots, the transition defense example that i gave..) i would love to hear a logical explanation to all that crap

[mohsena2631]

this aint the first time you say this bullcrap,naturalising is not cheating,its fiba regulation.and this aint the subject



cheating is your way, are u forget 2002 U18 ASIA CUP? i never forget it, NEVER.

refresh your memory you and korea ok ???? once again you drift away from the topic....

another BS post !

naturalizing is absolutely cheating, i am proud of my national team because we never do it. win or lose we always play with our boys.

[Unnecessary] in 2002, we lost to Korea because they played better. why we chose toughest group in next round ? China and Japan were far better than Qatar and Taiwan.

match fixing is your way.

[thadzonline]

I'm in no way biased to Iran or Lebanon. After watching the video, I don't think there is reason to doubt Vogel was involved in game-fixing. The transition play you pointed out, he actually tried to cover a guy in the wing knowing that the guy with the ball had somebody on him, and assuming that guy was a guard, I think he had good intentions in mind when he tried to cover the wing.

The one thing that this video proves however is that age had caught up and deteriorated Vogel's skills and a young upstart in Hamed Ehadadi made it look more obvious

[Khalid80]

nice poetry man haha but lets be real for a second and watch that video.
I have like a zillion basketball games already and im sure u did too, i had some BIG and even HUGE question marks about vogel's performance after watching this video. im not talking about pts or rebs, just look how many times he doesnt even contest hamed's shots or rebs??

i forgot where in that video but i think between 3:00 and 4:00 on transition D vogel moves intentioanlly away from the basket instead of goin directly to it to defend or get the reb, he is the center right???

what im saying here is that he didnt have a bad game or something but some of the things he has done in that game cant be explained in any other way thaan what Karim said. And if u have an explanation to what vogel has done in that game (i mean not contesting hamed shots, the transition defense example that i gave..) i would love to hear a logical explanation to all that crap

Man, I'm going to be sounding as if I support Iran against Lebanon (which i'm not) but Haddadi played a much better game than Vogel and he basically dominated him.
Why did Haddadi play better than Vogel? Here is my personal opinion why he did:
1) Haddadi is a hustler. He was going after every rebound, while Vogel looked like he didn't have it in him.
2) Haddadi last year was 22 years old while Vogel is 34. Age plays a big difference in this regard (physical fitness, stamina, etc).
3) Lebanon's game in the semifinal (one day before the final against Iran) was against Korea and it was very intense and physically tiring since the game went down to the wire till the last second (Lebanon won 76-74).
4) U guys have to remember that we abuse Vogel. We don't give the guy a chance to rest and expect him to play for 40 minutes every game throughout the whole tournament. Defiinitely this is going to affect him sooner or later and it unfortunately showed in the final.

I do agree that Vogel in some situations looked like he was preferring to move away from Haddadi and not face him. In the video Haddadi was going up for a dunk and instead of Vogel trying to block or foul him he moved away. The case ur talking about is located at 3:40 when Iran is going on a fast break and instead of Vogel going towards the basket he seemed to be going to defend player no. 10 on the Iranian team. I don't know why he chose to do so but I don't think that he cheated or pretended not to give it all he got.

U guys have to remember that if it wasn't for Vogel, imo Lebanon wouldn't have qualified to the World Championships in 2002 or 2006.
Vogel scored the winning basket against France in the 2006 World Chmampionships and he has done alot for Lebanese basketball.
I don't think he deserves to be treated in this way.
Unfortunately here in Lebanon when a team is winning we support it and are say it's the best. But one loss like in the Asian Championship Final and we start blaming the players or coach cuz we don't accept losing (Even though I do believe that the main reason why we lost the final against Iran, other than they simply outplayed us is because we were missing a key player by the name of Ali Mahmoud)

Last but not least, i'm with the decision that Vogel should retire from our NT cuz his prime days are over but at least show the guy some respect.

Peace

[spider]

another BS post !

naturalizing is absolutely cheating, i am proud of my national team because we never do it. win or lose we always play with our boys.

go learn the fiba rules jerk, when they say it's illegal we don't naturalize anymore, we beat you in jones cup without vogel and brian so i challenge our federation not to naturalise we can beat you anytime.

[Unnecessary] in 2002, we lost to Korea because they played better. why we chose toughest group in next round ? China and Japan were far better than Qatar and Taiwan.

match fixing is your way.

[Unnecessary] you beat us that time by the referees cheating,they dissalowed 2 buckets for us and many non calls and korea was supposed to beat you by 6 in the last day ! not because they were better and you were bad, you were bad to begin with they were hammering you and they lead 25 pts at one point then they start to give you the balls so the score was +4 to korea and we lost,we had beaten korea before and they gave you the game you agreed on it with korea you cheaters.

[FEIFEI]

go learn the fiba rules jerk, when they say it's illegal we don't naturalize anymore, we beat you in jones cup without vogel and brian so i challenge our federation not to naturalise we can beat you anytime.


[Unnecessary] you beat us that time by the referees cheating,they dissalowed 2 buckets for us and many non calls and korea was supposed to beat you by 6 in the last day ! not because they were better and you were bad, you were bad to begin with they were hammering you and they lead 25 pts at one point then they start to give you the balls so the score was +4 to korea and we lost,we had beaten korea before and they gave you the game you agreed on it with korea you cheaters.

I think all the fans of the asia NT did not naturalize players did not want to see there are naturalized players in other asia NT.

[karim]

I'm in no way biased to Iran or Lebanon. After watching the video, I don't think there is reason to doubt Vogel was involved in game-fixing. The transition play you pointed out, he actually tried to cover a guy in the wing knowing that the guy with the ball had somebody on him, and assuming that guy was a guard, I think he had good intentions in mind when he tried to cover the wing.

The one thing that this video proves however is that age had caught up and deteriorated Vogel's skills and a young upstart in Hamed Ehadadi made it look more obvious

no man i think vogel is smart enough to know that Iran is not a smart enough team to kick out for a three during a fast break i dt think it would even occur to them to pass to the outside with the basket directly in their face but in their case they shouldnt because they are not that good of a 3pt shooting team in the 1st place they keep shooting and catching offensive rebounds they are pretty consistent with their 3pt shooting(around25-30%) so to go on with the fast break would be much better for them ....i also missed out when vogel went outside with the score 21-19 so thats 3 posessions with the same mistake(vogel running outside even though the center should be under the basket) ...........when vogel went out on mahdys penetrations on 2 occasions , i saw one where abdelnour had already recovered on him and the other where brian beshara did so all vogel had to do was to stay on haddadi ....im sorry i just cant believe vogel is that bad of a player ...it looks too fishy to me