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robbe
09-08-2008, 10:19 PM
Chris Kaman recently had an Interview with the the German basketball magazine Five to speak about his experiences as a German NT player. I'll try to translate the more interesting parts of the interview. A lot of stuff we already knew actually, but the little rant on the Croatians and Greeks makes me wanna hand him some tissues. That's called basketball, Chris. You should have done better not only against all those talentless Croatians and Greeks, but also against the even worse Spainards, Chinese and others.

[…]
Kaman: […]He (Bauermann) is defense-first, he really cares about it. That's why he's probably thinking that I'm too lazy on defense. The defense here is different. I'm not used to that.
FIVE: Lazy?
Kaman: They use more energy on defense in international ball than in the NBA. Internationally they play deny-defense far beyond the three point line. They usually try to front when defending the post, everybody's in a deep defensive position. In the NBA I'm used to just relax when the player I'm guarding doesn't have the ball in his hands. Only when I'm matched up with someone who doesn’t have a jumpshot, then I sometimes put more concentration on helping out my teammates. Doesn’t make sense to close down the guy who can't score, does it?
FIVE: Doesn't the lack of a three-second-rule help you a lot?
Kaman: Not really, just a little bit. Most of the big men here know how to shoot from the outside, so you have to come out and keep them from hitting the open outside shot anyway.
[…]
FIVE: There was a rather unpleasant surprise for you in Athens. I'm talking about the loss against Croatia, when the opposing big men were very physical with you.
Kaman: Oh man, yes. I don’t want to say bad things about Croatia. Of course they are talented and they played their hearts out, but for me, what they played wasn’t basketball. That might be their playing style, but in my opinion that must not be confused with basketball talent or skills. I was taught that basketball is all about fundamentals and technique. And of course athleticism and strength plays a big part too. But some of those Croatian big men simply have no talent whatsoever. Sure they can perform a layup, hit a free throw or get a rebound, but they cannot shoot the ball exceptionally well, they do not possess any postmoves. They cannot dribble the ball either … none of those players should be a factor in a normal game. All they can do is beat you up. They enter the court and behave like a bunch of slaughterers. Just like Greece did in Beijing. Some of these guys simply play to beat myself and Dirk up. If they defended us normally, we would easily dominate them. They couldn’t play dead in the NBA! But that’s how it is, and if the refs tolerate it, okay. It's okay to play physical ball, but they went over the top.
[…]
FIVE: A last question regarding the national team. Will we meet again in Poland for the 2009 Eurobasket? Dirk said that he originally wanted to take a break next summer …
Kaman: One of the reasons I came to Germany was playing with Dirk. If he’s there for next year’s Eurobasket, I'll definitely be there too. […]

Juan Carlos Nadal
09-08-2008, 11:08 PM
I think we all owe a big thanks to Chris for letting us know what is basketball and what isn't.

rikhardur
09-08-2008, 11:11 PM
That's no surprise, that's the usual mentality in the NBA. Defense is much harder in Europe and worked upon. Offense (and the show it subsequently conveys) is much more valued overseas.

Pistol Pete
09-08-2008, 11:23 PM
He didn't really say anything new about the defense in NBA and FIBA/ULEB. But seriously, he has to stop crying about the Croatian and Greek players. It's Men's basketball he was participating in. And finally I understood why Bauermann limited Kaman's minutes so much - because the coach thought that Chris was lazy on defense. Because in some games I was really wondering why he's sitting on the bench so much. He played good D against Yao though and that was because Yao is a slow guy who can't really shoot long jumpers and Kaman is good defending guys like these.

Jon_Koncak
09-09-2008, 12:29 AM
. A lot of stuff we already knew actually, but the little rant on the Croatians and Greeks makes me wanna hand him some tissues. That's called basketball, Chris.

funny how you admired Reyes' sincerity when he was bitchin about the refs after the final..a yank does the same and he's a crybaby..those poor americans NEVER win on these boards no matter what i guess :rolleyes:

Pistol Pete
09-09-2008, 12:57 AM
funny how you admired Reyes' sincerity when he was bitchin about the refs after the final..a yank does the same and he's a crybaby..those poor americans NEVER win on these boards no matter what i guess :rolleyes:

Hey, Kaman is pure German! :D

Juan Carlos Nadal
09-09-2008, 01:14 AM
Well it comes as little surprise that he "relaxes" in defense (as well as others do against him) in the NBA. He has to play 82 pretty much meaningless games and then go home (he has played 11 play off games in his career - out of 365 in total). This surely differs from EL or international basketball events, where you loose 2 games and you are out. Even notwithstanding the different attitudes in defense in the two continents, this by itself explains the difference in defensive intensity.

BTW, weren't the Euro players that were meant to be "softies"?

penzias
09-09-2008, 01:15 AM
That's no surprise, that's the usual mentality in the NBA. Defense is much harder in Europe and worked upon. Offense (and the show it subsequently conveys) is much more valued overseas.
That might be true in regular season, playoffs ussually are a different story...
except for nuggets.

Dtown
09-09-2008, 01:24 AM
That might be true in regular season, playoffs ussually are a different story...
except for nuggets.

Pretty much considering his playoff experience it's no surprise he didn't know how to expend the extra effort.

Pistol Pete
09-09-2008, 01:56 AM
Once again, that is how money defeats basketball. They need to make money, so they have 82 games per season and that affects the performance of players in a negative way.

robbe
09-09-2008, 03:07 AM
funny how you admired Reyes' sincerity when he was bitchin about the refs after the final..a yank does the same and he's a crybaby..those poor americans NEVER win on these boards no matter what i guess :rolleyes:
I don't think Reyes complained about someone playing too physical, did he? Had Chris simply complained about the buildings in China, or the hotels, planes and other things connected to travelling, I wouldn't have lost a single word about it.

Jon_Koncak
09-09-2008, 08:08 AM
I don't think Reyes complained about someone playing too physical, did he?

actually he did

"If they had blown the whistle for the steps they take, the defense with the hands they use and had blown the whistle on everything, it's clear that we would have won. We got to within three points in spite of the referees, and if they'd been good, we would have won, pretty clearly," Reyes said.


This surely differs from EL or international basketball events, where you loose 2 games and you are out.

you lose two games in the fisrt stage of the euroleague and you're out?that's new to me...anyway if you call the nba regular season meaningless you can say the same thing about every other european domestic league

robbe
09-09-2008, 08:23 AM
actually he did

"If they had blown the whistle for the steps they take, the defense with the hands they use and had blown the whistle on everything, it's clear that we would have won. We got to within three points in spite of the referees, and if they'd been good, we would have won, pretty clearly," Reyes said.
I think he was referring to the fact that there were hands where they didn't belong, which doesn't necessarily mean physical basketball.


you lose two games in the fisrt stage of the euroleague and you're out?that's new to me...anyway if you call the nba regular season meaningless you can say the same thing about every other european domestic league
The NBA regular season has 82 games. In the Euroleague you'll have a 10 game first round next year. And your position determines the strength of future opponents. I think that's quite a lot of pressure from early on. And regular season games in European domestic leagues are more important because simply there are much less games and the big teams have to perform in every single one of them.

damelo
09-09-2008, 08:25 AM
That might be true in regular season, playoffs ussually are a different story...
except for nuggets.

Well, Kaman is not really used to play after April...

Anyway, maybe we should bring him to the playgrounds here, where you never call a foul, and get hands on your arms all the time when having the ball... After that, you are quite easy when you play with a ref.

Jon_Koncak
09-09-2008, 08:42 AM
I think he was referring to the fact that there were hands where they didn't belong, which doesn't necessarily mean physical basketball.


yeah there were american hands on that orange round thing..but i understand Reyes..he's used to being guarded by white unathletic stiffs with the reflexes of my 80 years old grandma..american's super quick hands came as a huge shock to him

robbe
09-09-2008, 08:44 AM
yeah there were american hands on that orange round thing..but i understand Reyes..he's used to being guarded by white unathletic stiffs with the reflexes of my 80 years old grandma..american's super quick hands came as a huge shock to him
That's probably the reason, yes.

Straight forward
09-09-2008, 10:34 AM
yeah there were american hands on that orange round thing..but i understand Reyes..he's used to being guarded by white unathletic stiffs with the reflexes of my 80 years old grandma..american's super quick hands came as a huge shock to him

Those monsters are realy shocking, man, you want it or not...and how many monsters are walking in NBA like Howard and Lebron? BTW, was there any tests of dope in olympics basketball (just curious, not saying that NBA players are necessaraly using that stuff, USA is wide enough for growing one or two monsters)?

robbe
09-09-2008, 11:08 AM
It's a polarising topic, but I hoped the discussion wouldn't go as low as the "unathletic white stiffs" and "black monsters" level.:rolleyes:

mvblair
09-09-2008, 03:10 PM
Internationally they play deny-defense far beyond the three point line. They usually try to front when defending the post, everybody's in a deep defensive position. This is a very, very true point that doesn't get mentioned as much as it should. It's because of the emphasis on the zone defense (in the US, we lost an entire generation of players to the NBA's idiotic "no zone / illegal defense" rules). Fronting centers and doubling in the key is a part of the zone. Sorry, Chris.
Of course they are talented and they played their hearts out, but for me, what they played wasn’t basketball. They fooled me, then.
I was taught that basketball is all about fundamentals and technique. ...But some of those Croatian big men simply have no talent whatsoever. Tell that to Shaq, buddy.
Sure they can perform a layup, hit a free throw or get a rebound Sounds like good fundamentals to me.
All they can do is beat you up. And perform a layup, hit a free throw, and get rebounds.
If they defended us normally, we would easily dominate them. Right. If they defended you the way you want to be defended, you could win.

Anyway, maybe we should bring him to the playgrounds here, where you never call a foul, and get hands on your arms all the time when having the ball... After that, you are quite easy when you play with a ref. Thank you, Damelo. Absolutely true. It's the same here. I play at the YMCA several times a week and I've played on playgrounds and courts my whole life. When I watch these NBA players (and Olympic players from all countries, to be fair) complain and whine about little "no calls," I just laugh. On a playground, you get beat up, knocked to the floor, and pushed on every side of the court. At the end of the game, we still "hi five" and share water together. It's a part of the sport. Basketball is not ballet, Chris Kaman.

damelo
09-09-2008, 03:19 PM
Tell that to Shaq, buddy.

Well, I may disagree here, Shaq's talent about missing FTs is HUGE! (for a guy who plays everyday)

Still, his talent was physical, mainly. He was just a 7footer 150+ kgs able to run like a 6'11 110kgs... Which is quite exceptional.

Ok, i'm OT, and just wanted to disagree with Matt for the principle^^ :D

But, seriously, what Kaman says is just that NBA players are actors, and that other ballers are sportsmen who plays 100%. In the NBA, they just act as players in some non winning teams. When you talk about great teams, they play their hearts, not every game always, but against other serious teams. If only everybody wanted like Larry Legend said:"Coach, I don't want to lose any ball game" after losing to Michigan State.
This would be so much more fun for all of us!

Jon_Koncak
09-09-2008, 03:44 PM
Those monsters are realy shocking, man, you want it or not...and how many monsters are walking in NBA like Howard and Lebron? BTW, was there any tests of dope in olympics basketball (just curious, not saying that NBA players are necessaraly using that stuff, USA is wide enough for growing one or two monsters)?

http://www.nike.com/jumpman23/classic/photos/kleiza.jpg

lithuania,despite bein a tiny country does its best to compete on monster production though

mvblair
09-09-2008, 03:59 PM
Well, I may disagree here, Shaq's talent about missing FTs is HUGE! (for a guy who plays everyday)

Still, his talent was physical, mainly. He was just a 7footer 150+ kgs able to run like a 6'11 110kgs... Which is quite exceptional.

Ok, i'm OT, and just wanted to disagree with Matt for the principle^^ :D Of course, Damelo!! I was being sarcastic and joking!! :D I agree that Shaq's flaws are really, really big. He was a physical giant and he dominated the game like few other players. Unfortunately, he was missing a lot of those fundamentals. If he could make free throws, who knows how many championships he would have! :D

This would be so much more fun for all of us! That energy that is seen on the international scene is one of the reasons so many Americans enjoy watching international games more and more. We like the defensive intensity and the offensive flow.

penzias
09-09-2008, 10:41 PM
yeah there were american hands on that orange round thing..but i understand Reyes..he's used to being guarded by white unathletic stiffs with the reflexes of my 80 years old grandma..american's super quick hands came as a huge shock to him
Actually Reyes wasn't overpowered by those monsters, he gave Howard and Bosh a fight. He did pretty much what he's used to do against those white unathletic stiffs with the reflexes of your 80 years old grandma.