Team USA better at getting to the free-throw line?

[mvblair]

I think that one of the big advantages that Team USA has is that our players are very proficient at putting themselves on the free-throw line. As anybody who watches the NBA knows, a huge part of the game involves players at the charity line. Some players live and die there, scoring as many as 10 free points in any given game.

NBA players, both international and domestic, are very, very good at drawing fouls. That is, they play the game in order to get fouled. Some players might not be very good shooters, but they know how to drive to the basket and be fouled.

In big international tournaments, where each point is fought for bitterly (like the NBA Play-Offs), this can be a major advantage. A quick glance at these statistics (free throw attempts per team) shows that a lot of teams score more than 20% of their points at the line.

This begs the question: does Team USA have an advantage because they can get to the line? How proficient are the other teams at actually getting fouled?

Personally, I think the advantage goes to Team USA. Nobody questions that Team USA has phenomenal athletes. Part of their athleticism is that they know how to move their bodies quickly so that defenders foul them. That is, they can manipulate their game so that they go to the foul line.

--Matt

[Straight forward]

Athletics is a big advantade of USA team. They have a big power in the paint, even guards are very strong and athletic. Lithuania had such guy as Šarūnas Marčiulionis and believe me that guy showed as what kind of difference makes physical material. Now, Kleiza is doing something like that, though he needs to learn to control that power. Lithuanian NT knew that they will have problems in the paint against USA (Olympics 2004), so they let open outside and was trying to defence hard in the paint. USA players gets a lot FT, but the question is- are they realy a good shooters? As for me, i have no doubt Europeans are better sharpshooters. Look at Ilgauskas or Gasol, would you find better shooters anywhere with such height. Imho, phenomenal physical material is the last big advantade of USA in international arena.

[damelo]

I think in the NBA, refs are more likely to give free throws to stars like Kobe or Iguodala than in the FIBA basketball. You don't see many guys having lots of free throws in Europe, even for example Marc Gasol or Rudy. They don't get all the time ten of them. Even with crazy physical abilities, power for Marc and speed and jump for Rudy.

[mvblair]

.... USA players gets a lot FT, but the question is- are they realy a good shooters? As for me, i have no doubt Europeans are better sharpshooters. Look at Ilgauskas or Gasol, would you find better shooters anywhere with such height...

Yes, I think the Europeans on average are better shooters anywhere on the court. However, I think that Team USA can get more free-throws than any international team. The number of free-throw attempts taken by Team USA could be much more than their opponent. If Team USA is taking 20 FTs per game while making 50% and Team Timbuktu is taking 10 FTs per game while making 80%, Team USA will still have more points. So, my question is: will Team USA have an advantage because of that?

Imho, phenomenal physical material is the last big advantade of USA in international arena.

Yes. And frankly, that is a big advantage. Being a good, all-around physical athlete with muscle is important in basketball. But good athletes are not enough to win the Gold anymore, as you said.

I think in the NBA, refs are more likely to give free throws to stars like Kobe or Iguodala than in the FIBA basketball.

Yes, there is no question about that. Everybody knows that the NBA refs give the whistle to superstars. But I think that a lot of players also learn how to take the whistle by themselves by forcing defenders to foul them. Kobe, LeBron, Kevin Martin, Iverson, Dirk, Pau: those guys know how to get people to foul them and they score 40% of their points from the charity line. Will FIBA officials give them 10 whistles a night? Probably not, but those guys can still manipulate the game by forcing fouls.

[Phantim3dx]

hey nice thread.

my 2 cents.

if we look at team usa in %age of making the charity stripe shots, its pretty dismal imo compared to other teams, we just arent good at the free throw line (especially the bigs..howard is one of them i think he is what 50-60%?!?!) compared to most teams in the world in. it something we lack these days is more fine tuning in the charity stripe, im a victim of it also :-P

now if u are a foreign team, that knows team usa will go to the free throw line a lot; its a strategy gamble and playing with stat/ numbers of whether you foul team usa (and who). its risky but if you are foulin the right guys those free throws mean nothing except attempts. i think this not only happened in 2004 but also in 2006. if im not mistaken greece somewhat played this strategy on team usa, yes we went to the free throw line a lot but even people like hinrich and carmelo were having a hard time getting their shots...how much more if teams know team usa's pf and especially centers are not as good in the free throw line, its then a gamble of is the foreign team superior enough to commit the "hack a shaq" strategy hoping those free throws are nothing more than attempts. sorry for the run on

i think the score was 96-101(somewhat correct me if im wrong on the greece vs usa 2006 game). team usa went to the foul line for at least 15 free throw attempts, if my mind serves me correctly..thats 15 points right there not made! again i did not look up the stats, im trying to think of them so for you stat perfectionists out there(kings, rik, anyone else im forgetting? matt?) look it up.

[jazperson]

It just shows that NBA has more experience than FIBA players. NBA is more on acting and has it's own old rules.

[damelo]

i think the score was 96-101(somewhat correct me if im wrong on the greece vs usa 2006 game). team usa went to the foul line for at least 15 free throw attempts, if my mind serves me correctly..thats 15 points right there not made! again i did not look up the stats, im trying to think of them so for you stat perfectionists out there(kings, rik, anyone else im forgetting? matt?) look it up.

In this game, the one missing everything is mainly D-Wade. As even in the NBA he is not a great shooter, in international game, he is worse. And he misses nearly everything against Greece in 2006.
In this game, Howard play max 15min, and if he plays more, Team USA wins, because he is getting almost every offensive board, and dunk right after them. He was too athletic and fast for Greece. But, well, coach didn't decide to play with him...
He wasn't getting lots of FTs anyway.

[Phantim3dx]

In this game, the one missing everything is mainly D-Wade. As even in the NBA he is not a great shooter, in international game, he is worse. And he misses nearly everything against Greece in 2006.
In this game, Howard play max 15min, and if he plays more, Team USA wins, because he is getting almost every offensive board, and dunk right after them. He was too athletic and fast for Greece. But, well, coach didn't decide to play with him...
He wasn't getting lots of FTs anyway.

another reason as to whhy i really dont want d wade on the intl team. if he is put its for commercial reasons....yes he won a ring but gees with the ghost fouls he makes and travelling even refs with names like luigi would be having heart attacks.

[mvblair]

Here is a box-score for that Greece-USA game. The USA missed 14 free throws (20-34). Greece missed 10 free throws (23-33). That does not help my case that Team USA is better at actually being on the line.

However, in the 111-100 defeat of Puerto Rico, we had 24-34 FT attempts. PR had 14-18. In USA-China, we had 33-40, China had 19-25. In USA-Italy, we were 19-34, Italy was 16-19. Germany-USA, Germany was 20-21, USA 11-15 (horrible game for Dirk 3-12, FYI).

So, obviously there are games where the USA's FT percentage is poor, but because of the volume of FTs we take, we get more points.

A couple of other big games I just looked up:

In Greece-Lithuania (a 5-point OT win for Greece), Greece was 21-41 at the line, Lithuania 16-22. In Turkey Lithuania, Turkey was 23-38, Lithuania 30-42. However, in the title game, Greece-Spain, Greece was 6-12, Spain was 6-11.

Ignoring percentages, after looking through those statistics at USA Basket, it seems to me that three teams consistently got to the foul line: Greece, Spain and the USA. Those are the top three teams from the tournament. Other teams that were considered championship material, like Lithuania, Argentina, maybe France, rarely had 20 FT attempts.

Bottom line: FT attempts are important (duh!) and the best teams in a given tournament get to the line.

[Phantim3dx]

sure nuff matt, but as i stated before its again one of those tactics a coach and his staff has to consider when playing teeams like USA, do we foul a lot or no. its one of those playing chicken games. do i keep fouling and see if this is usa's bad night of free throws (because of who you foul) or or do i something else.

and another thing i dont wanyt d wade on the team.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

another reason as to whhy i really dont want d wade on the intl team. if he is put its for commercial reasons....yes he won a ring but gees with the ghost fouls he makes and travelling even refs with names like luigi would be having heart attacks.

hahaha
even the most hard-core anti US basketball fan wouldn't wish USA to get Luigi in the game, probably whole team would retire from intl. bball not just Duncan ... kind of reminds me on Vujčić and his "retirement" after EC05...

I think Howard wasn't a weak part of the chain in those games either. He practicaly just stepped aside (outside the court under the rim) making some room for the ball handlers and jumped in when neccesary. Not having lots of possesions there weren't that many chances to foul him either...

[mvblair]

sure nuff matt, but as i stated before its again one of those tactics a coach and his staff has to consider when playing teeams like USA, do we foul a lot or no. its one of those playing chicken games. do i keep fouling and see if this is usa's bad night of free throws (because of who you foul) or or do i something else.

Yeah, you're right. And with our boys, taking foul shots is a real risk. Obviously, Team USA should not base their strategy on getting to the foul line.

and another thing i dont wanyt d wade on the team.

Same here. He was great in the Play-Offs when Miami won the championship, but that was in large part because of the great role-players Miami had, who gave him space...along with those nice "fouls" that you mentioned earlier. (I remember Detroit Pistons players actually mocking him during pre-game by making lay-ups and falling down after).

[ArkadiosV2]

Matt, maybe you should open a Team USA 2008 thread or something?

Anyway, USA invited Greek ref Zavlanos, again, to their preparation camp in Las Vegas...

I'm sure he'll teach them a couple of things about FIBA rules and of course, how to get more free throws

[Phantim3dx]

i have internet now!!! booya!!

got a news report on the greek ref being taken to the u.s. i find this interesting

Matt, maybe you should open a Team USA 2008 thread or something?

Anyway, USA invited Greek ref Zavlanos, again, to their preparation camp in Las Vegas...

I'm sure he'll teach them a couple of things about FIBA rules and of course, how to get more free throws