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eal
07-20-2021, 04:19 PM
General discussion about the Men's tournament can go here.

Has anyone else noticed that the Gold Medal Match is played on August 7 at 11:30 local time, but the Bronze Medal Match is played on August 7 at 20:00 local time. The only explanation I can think of for this bizarre scheduling is US tv audiences - the Gold Medal match will be Friday night prime time viewing, whereas the Bronze medal match will be on at 6:00 am on Saturday.

Stevy
07-20-2021, 04:53 PM
Brief & comprehensive review to the Olympics and Predictions

There are 12 teams participating in the Olympics. To advance to the quarterfinals, the first two-placed teams advance as well as the two best third-placed teams.

Group A
Iran, France, United States, Czech Republic
Group B
Australia, Germany, Italy and Nigeria
Group C
Argentina, Japan, Spain and Slovenia

The most balanced and competitive group for me is in Group B followed by Group A and C. Australia are the Favorites to finish 1st in Group A but they will face a tougher and reinforced Italy with momentum. The USA are the favorites despite their short preparations and their recent performances. Spain is poised to continue on their run as gold medalists in the world cup.

Floor and Ceiling for these teams

Iran - Iran looks to be the weakest team in the Olympics. Most of their players are old now especially their golden trio of Haddadi, Bahrami and Kamrani. They lost to Spain miserably twice in their preparation games. Recently they also lost to Japan twice. Conclusion, It is hard to see Iran replicating their near upset to Spain in 2019. Thus, Their floor is 12th while their ceiling is that they can at least beat any of their group opponents for one quarter. I expect them to be blown out.

France - France may have lost twice to Spain in their preparation games but they could have easily won those twice as well. As always they have a very solid roster. Expect a strong team that has no weaknesses that I can think of per position. It will come down to coaching and execution for a team like this. Floor for them will be the Semis while their Ceiling is Gold.

USA- The most talented roster in the competition. This team is worth hundreds of millions. If this was a one on one game then no team can come close but as always basketball is a team sport. They looked horrible in their exhibition games and it all thanks of their 1 week preparation before their games. They have the shortest preparation out of all teams. In their first two games, their offensive sets was awful. All they did mostly was poor forced inefficient isolation attempts. In their third game against Argentina they looked a whole lot better even if all they did was some basic Pick and Roll sets. I will still take that over a contested iso jumper. The short preparation really hurts them because most of these players are the number 1 or 2 options in their teams. They are not used to settling picks, role player stuff. Chemistry on the court has to be developed fast. Love and Beal is now out and they are replaced by Mcgee and Keldon. Most people would probably like this development but in my opinion this team got better because for me they need role players. Mcgee was a player under Kerr and Keldon was under Pop, so expect more fluidity. Floor will be silver and Ceiling will be Gold. Nothing less but Gold will be a failure, no matter how much I dislike their preparations I will still have to consider their prestige and talent so they should at least for me be in the final game but I do believe that they will underperform and meet a similar fate to the Canadians in the OQT. I won't be surprised if they got knocked down to the bronze medal game.

Czech Republic - This is a team that proves that talent can be overtaken by chemistry and effort. I never expected them to be the winner of the Victoria OQT. I always thought that Canada or Greece will win it. At that time I leaned more to the Greeks than the Canadians because of their chemistry and preparation but I at least thought that they would meet in the finals. Czech Republic surprised a lot of people including myself. They are in the Olympics for a reason and they deserve their place. I can see them at least in the quarterfinals while their ceiling will be the semis.

Australia - Australia are one of the contenders for the Gold medal and rightfully so. They have steadily improved their placings throughout world competitions. This roster is blessed with talent, they can shoot, they have chemistry, they have defense and in a nutshell they have all the tools to come out as winners of the Olympics. They didn't even play Mills, Dellavedova, Baynes and Ingles and they still managed to outclass Nigeria. You know that you are one of the elite teams in the world when they can easily shrug off Thon Maker. This guy would be a star on lower ranked teams. I expect Australia to do really well in the competition, like France it will all come down to execution and coaching. Floor will be the semis while their ceiling is Gold.

Italy - Italy as always is one of the elite teams in Europe. They play very unselfishly and their perimeter shooting is on point. From 1-5, they all can shoot. This is the team that beat Serbia for a reason. Now plenty would say that Serbia was dealing injuries and etc but you have to consider that Italy missed many of their players as well like Daotome and etc. When you look at it that way than you should expect a strong Italy team in the Olympics. What is interesting for Italy is that Gallinari will be the only addition for this roster. Floor would be the Quarterfinals and their ceiling is Semis.

Germany- Germany is terribly inconsistent especially on their offensive and defensive executions, now duh I know that they won their OQT in Split but if you watched all of their games live in the OQT and I did then you will know exactly what I mean. It could be a preparation issue or etc, I am not that knowledgeable about their length of time together but one way or another they won and they deserve their spot in the Olympics. Their roster is very formidable, all of their players play in the Euro league along with NBA talents like Wagner and Bonga. I expected Dennis to be part of their roster but based on articles he can't join which is a blow for Germany. I expect a more cohesive unit than the one in Split. Floor for them would be the Quarterfinals and their ceiling is Semis.

Nigeria- This team is very athletic, they are arguably the 2nd most athlethic team in the Olympics. Their roster has 8 NBA players, now they may not be all stars but having solid NBA role players are a huge benefit. Nigeria mostly emphasizes on Defense especially with Mike Brown as their coach who is known for his Defensive systems in the NBA. Now I know that they got trashed against the Boomers but they also made some tough 3 pointers against them which is crazy and their is no defense to better offense. I expect Nigeria to run a very thin rotation, I won't be surprised to see Mike Brown play only 7 guys or 8 guys because he is known to run thin rotation in important games in the NBA. Nigeria will no doubt learn from their mistakes against Australia, they should be a better team once the Olympics Start. Floor for them would be the Quarterfinals and their ceiling is Semis.

Spain - Viva la España! This team has been a solid and elite team for years now and despite their age, the way they play basketball is not reliant to athleticism. They beat Iran and France twice and they lost to USA earlier by 7 points. They finish 4-1 in their preparations. What more can I say about this team? They are no doubt one of the contenders for Gold. I expect them to at least make it into the Semis while their ceiling is Gold.

Slovenia - Slovenia looks to ride their momentum from the OQT to the Olympics. Their variation of the 5 out offense is suited for their best player Luka. What is interesting for Slovenia are unlike the other teams, they did not participate on any preparation game. They choose to practice which puzzled me, I guess they have some new sets to surprise teams or they value the players fatigue and recovery. Please comment if they did play a preparation game because I could not find anything. Honestly it would not surprise me if they end up winning the gold because it is really hard to assess if teams could stop Luka. Their 5 out offense is really effective that even if Lithuania double or triple teamed Luka, he will always make the right play. Aside from Luka their players are no joke also. Their roster is full of veterans that have played in the NBA, Euro League, Euro Cup, Liga ACB, basically in the top European level. I expect them to at least make it into the quarter finals while their ceiling is Semis.

Japan - Japan! This is honestly the strongest Asian team that I have seen since the Yao Ming era. They have been developing since 2017 under Lamas. I have seen all of their preparation games and my god they are impressive! They are undefeated in their games with Rui! Without him they still looked impressive! They managed to hold a record of 3-3 without Rui, They beat Iran Twice while losing once, won against Hungary and lost two games against Finland and Belgium. With Rui they dominated Belgium, the way the top teams in Europe would do and Defeated France by 6 points. They have the team that can end the drought of an Asian team not making it in the Quarterfinals. Floor would be them losing all of their games while their ceiling is the Quarterfinals. Nothing against Japan because obviously I like them but I am going with history and I hope that they will prove me wrong and rewrite history by exceeding their expectations.

Argentina - Argentina, what can I say? They are the Silver Medalists of the world cup. Like always they always look poor before the competitions because even in 2019 they also lost some preparation games. Honestly even if they are one of the elite teams, I think they are the weakest elite team like even if they are one of the contenders they are the weakest contender. I know it doesn't make any sense but there is nothing against them but because of their history of having great and strong rosters, this year's team is not that good compared to their previous rosters. They still have some great talent, they have 4 NBA players and their roster is full of players with elite experience. Like Always they are well coached and they have been solid together. I don't know, I just believe that Argentina will let people down this year. I hope that I am wrong but I am leaning towards my intuition. Well I was surprised with their win against Serbia in 2019 and they deserve all the credit. I could be wrong It is not like I am some god. Floor would be the quarter finals while their Ceiling is Semis. Does not mean that they could not win it all, I just think that in my opinion they will fall down this year.

JamalJokic
07-20-2021, 10:09 PM
Brief & comprehensive review to the Olympics and Predictions

There are 12 teams participating in the Olympics. To advance to the quarterfinals, the first two-placed teams advance as well as the two best third-placed teams.

Group A
Iran, France, United States, Czech Republic
Group B
Australia, Germany, Italy and Nigeria
Group C
Argentina, Japan, Spain and Slovenia

The most balanced and competitive group for me is in Group B followed by Group A and C. Australia are the Favorites to finish 1st in Group A but they will face a tougher and reinforced Italy with momentum. The USA are the favorites despite their short preparations and their recent performances. Spain is poised to continue on their run as gold medalists in the world cup.

Floor and Ceiling for these teams

Iran - Iran looks to be the weakest team in the Olympics. Most of their players are old now especially their golden trio of Haddadi, Bahrami and Kamrani. They lost to Spain miserably twice in their preparation games. Recently they also lost to Japan twice. Conclusion, It is hard to see Iran replicating their near upset to Spain in 2019. Thus, Their floor is 12th while their ceiling is that they can at least beat any of their group opponents for one quarter. I expect them to be blown out.

France - France may have lost twice to Spain in their preparation games but they could have easily won those twice as well. As always they have a very solid roster. Expect a strong team that has no weaknesses that I can think of per position. It will come down to coaching and execution for a team like this. Floor for them will be the Semis while their Ceiling is Gold.

USA- The most talented roster in the competition. This team is worth hundreds of millions. If this was a one on one game then no team can come close but as always basketball is a team sport. They looked horrible in their exhibition games and it all thanks of their 1 week preparation before their games. They have the shortest preparation out of all teams. In their first two games, their offensive sets was awful. All they did mostly was poor forced inefficient isolation attempts. In their third game against Argentina they looked a whole lot better even if all they did was some basic Pick and Roll sets. I will still take that over a contested iso jumper. The short preparation really hurts them because most of these players are the number 1 or 2 options in their teams. They are not used to settling picks, role player stuff. Chemistry on the court has to be developed fast. Love and Beal is now out and they are replaced by Mcgee and Keldon. Most people would probably like this development but in my opinion this team got better because for me they need role players. Mcgee was a player under Kerr and Keldon was under Pop, so expect more fluidity. Floor will be silver and Ceiling will be Gold. Nothing less but Gold will be a failure, no matter how much I dislike their preparations I will still have to consider their prestige and talent so they should at least for me be in the final game but I do believe that they will underperform and meet a similar fate to the Canadians in the OQT. I won't be surprised if they got knocked down to the bronze medal game.

Czech Republic - This is a team that proves that talent can be overtaken by chemistry and effort. I never expected them to be the winner of the Victoria OQT. I always thought that Canada or Greece will win it. At that time I leaned more to the Greeks than the Canadians because of their chemistry and preparation but I at least thought that they would meet in the finals. Czech Republic surprised a lot of people including myself. They are in the Olympics for a reason and they deserve their place. I can see them at least in the quarterfinals while their ceiling will be the semis.

Australia - Australia are one of the contenders for the Gold medal and rightfully so. They have steadily improved their placings throughout world competitions. This roster is blessed with talent, they can shoot, they have chemistry, they have defense and in a nutshell they have all the tools to come out as winners of the Olympics. They didn't even play Mills, Dellavedova, Baynes and Ingles and they still managed to outclass Nigeria. You know that you are one of the elite teams in the world when they can easily shrug off Thon Maker. This guy would be a star on lower ranked teams. I expect Australia to do really well in the competition, like France it will all come down to execution and coaching. Floor will be the semis while their ceiling is Gold.

Italy - Italy as always is one of the elite teams in Europe. They play very unselfishly and their perimeter shooting is on point. From 1-5, they all can shoot. This is the team that beat Serbia for a reason. Now plenty would say that Serbia was dealing injuries and etc but you have to consider that Italy missed many of their players as well like Daotome and etc. When you look at it that way than you should expect a strong Italy team in the Olympics. What is interesting for Italy is that Gallinari will be the only addition for this roster. Floor would be the Quarterfinals and their ceiling is Semis.

Germany- Germany is terribly inconsistent especially on their offensive and defensive executions, now duh I know that they won their OQT in Split but if you watched all of their games live in the OQT and I did then you will know exactly what I mean. It could be a preparation issue or etc, I am not that knowledgeable about their length of time together but one way or another they won and they deserve their spot in the Olympics. Their roster is very formidable, all of their players play in the Euro league along with NBA talents like Wagner and Bonga. I expected Dennis to be part of their roster but based on articles he can't join which is a blow for Germany. I expect a more cohesive unit than the one in Split. Floor for them would be the Quarterfinals and their ceiling is Semis.

Nigeria- This team is very athletic, they are arguably the 2nd most athlethic team in the Olympics. Their roster has 8 NBA players, now they may not be all stars but having solid NBA role players are a huge benefit. Nigeria mostly emphasizes on Defense especially with Mike Brown as their coach who is known for his Defensive systems in the NBA. Now I know that they got trashed against the Boomers but they also made some tough 3 pointers against them which is crazy and their is no defense to better offense. I expect Nigeria to run a very thin rotation, I won't be surprised to see Mike Brown play only 7 guys or 8 guys because he is known to run thin rotation in important games in the NBA. Nigeria will no doubt learn from their mistakes against Australia, they should be a better team once the Olympics Start. Floor for them would be the Quarterfinals and their ceiling is Semis.

Spain - Viva la España! This team has been a solid and elite team for years now and despite their age, the way they play basketball is not reliant to athleticism. They beat Iran and France twice and they lost to USA earlier by 7 points. They finish 4-1 in their preparations. What more can I say about this team? They are no doubt one of the contenders for Gold. I expect them to at least make it into the Semis while their ceiling is Gold.

Slovenia - Slovenia looks to ride their momentum from the OQT to the Olympics. Their variation of the 5 out offense is suited for their best player Luka. What is interesting for Slovenia are unlike the other teams, they did not participate on any preparation game. They choose to practice which puzzled me, I guess they have some new sets to surprise teams or they value the players fatigue and recovery. Please comment if they did play a preparation game because I could not find anything. Honestly it would not surprise me if they end up winning the gold because it is really hard to assess if teams could stop Luka. Their 5 out offense is really effective that even if Lithuania double or triple teamed Luka, he will always make the right play. Aside from Luka their players are no joke also. Their roster is full of veterans that have played in the NBA, Euro League, Euro Cup, Liga ACB, basically in the top European level. I expect them to at least make it into the quarter finals while their ceiling is Semis.

Japan - Japan! This is honestly the strongest Asian team that I have seen since the Yao Ming era. They have been developing since 2017 under Lamas. I have seen all of their preparation games and my god they are impressive! They are undefeated in their games with Rui! Without him they still looked impressive! They managed to hold a record of 3-3 without Rui, They beat Iran Twice while losing once, won against Hungary and lost two games against Finland and Belgium. With Rui they dominated Belgium, the way the top teams in Europe would do and Defeated France by 6 points. They have the team that can end the drought of an Asian team not making it in the Quarterfinals. Floor would be them losing all of their games while their ceiling is the Quarterfinals. Nothing against Japan because obviously I like them but I am going with history and I hope that they will prove me wrong and rewrite history by exceeding their expectations.

Argentina - Argentina, what can I say? They are the Silver Medalists of the world cup. Like always they always look poor before the competitions because even in 2019 they also lost some preparation games. Honestly even if they are one of the elite teams, I think they are the weakest elite team like even if they are one of the contenders they are the weakest contender. I know it doesn't make any sense but there is nothing against them but because of their history of having great and strong rosters, this year's team is not that good compared to their previous rosters. They still have some great talent, they have 4 NBA players and their roster is full of players with elite experience. Like Always they are well coached and they have been solid together. I don't know, I just believe that Argentina will let people down this year. I hope that I am wrong but I am leaning towards my intuition. Well I was surprised with their win against Serbia in 2019 and they deserve all the credit. I could be wrong It is not like I am some god. Floor would be the quarter finals while their Ceiling is Semis. Does not mean that they could not win it all, I just think that in my opinion they will fall down this year.

I think the ceiling you have for Czech, Italy and Germany is too high. I don’t see any of them going deeper than the quarter finals. To me Germany is by far the weakest team in Group B and I think they had the easiest OQT. The biggest wildcards to me in this tournament are France and Slovenia. I can see both making it to the gold medal game and upsetting any of the top 3 teams in USA, Spain and Australia along the way.

Stevy
07-21-2021, 07:47 AM
For those three teams it can be possible but of course highly unlikely. I am just basing this on their performances, they all beat quality teams in the OQT. It would be a a ridiculous prediction if I said that Semis will be their floor, I had these teams ceiling in Semis because they can potentially upset teams in the quarterfinals but of course they would be at a disadvantage. My top 4 teams for the Olympics are of course the United States, Spain, Australia and France. These 4 teams are the only teams where their floor in my opinion is at least in the semis.

Darrell Armstrong
07-21-2021, 08:39 AM
For those three teams it can be possible but of course highly unlikely. I am just basing this on their performances, they all beat quality teams in the OQT. It would be a a ridiculous prediction if I said that Semis will be their floor, I had these teams ceiling in Semis because they can potentially upset teams in the quarterfinals but of course they would be at a disadvantage. My top 4 teams for the Olympics are of course the United States, Spain, Australia and France. These 4 teams are the only teams where their floor in my opinion is at least in the semis.

Yours was a nice post, but you may want to review your predictions. You are claiming that all of the teams in group B are going to reach quarterfinals at least (that's not possible), and basically only Iran and Japan will not advance. At least two other teams will be eliminated in the first round.

Stevy
07-21-2021, 09:03 AM
Yours was a nice post, but you may want to review your predictions. You are claiming that all of the teams in group B are going to reach quarterfinals at least (that's not possible), and basically only Iran and Japan will not advance. At least two other teams will be eliminated in the first round.

I know man it is fairly obvious, It is just hard to predict and that is the beauty of basketball. Favorites in the OQT are gone and I think I have assessed all of the teams fairly. It is just that I am not discounting any of the teams. I know that only 8 will advance, I just refuse to diminish their potential to make it into the quarterfinals. I recognize the two other teams and their efforts. I can only say for certain that Iran and Japan has the lowest chances to make it into the next round but Group B is just hard to think about for me. I recognize their accomplishments especially Germany and Italy, they beat quality teams in the OQT plus longer preparations/roster changes for the Olympics. Nigeria is also looking formidable. I can't predict it properly but I do know that this group will be the most competitive.

I know for a fact that Group A's Third placer would probably advance especially with their wins against Iran through point differential. So France, United States, Czech Republic is probably a lock for me. Group B will be the most competitive and I think Australia will be the top placer while for Group C depending if Japan can maintain their form throughout their preparations it would probably blowouts thus the third placer for this group is probably a lock also.

It will be tough for teams in Group B that's for sure. Also my top 4 teams are USA, SPAIN, AUSTRALIA and FRANCE, these were the only teams with semis as a floor in my opinion.

Darrell Armstrong
07-21-2021, 10:35 AM
It will be tough for teams in Group B that's for sure. Also my top 4 teams are USA, SPAIN, AUSTRALIA and FRANCE, these were the only teams with semis as a floor in my opinion.

I agree. But to be fair, if you can't put any of those teams in group B over the rest, you need to assign all of them a reasonable floor: failing to advance. Because that's what will happen for one or two of them.

I also think those four teams are the strongest on paper, but I have the feeling this tournament is going to be full of surprises. I'm not even discarding some of the top four teams being ousted in the first round.

Stevy
07-21-2021, 11:12 AM
I agree. But to be fair, if you can't put any of those teams in group B over the rest, you need to assign all of them a reasonable floor: failing to advance. Because that's what will happen for one or two of them.

I also think those four teams are the strongest on paper, but I have the feeling this tournament is going to be full of surprises. I'm not even discarding some of the top four teams being ousted in the first round.

I agree man, unfortunately I just can't predict Group B properly the only lock in teams that I am more confident that would make it in the quarters in my opinion is France, United States, Czech Republic, Argentina, Australia, Spain and Slovenia. That top 2 spot for group B is hard to assess, in the end I think it would go down to point differential. I even think that Japan can potentially upset Argentina but that is more on my favoritism because I am Asian. I do like Japan's recent form but in the end it was all preparation games and they need to translate it into a victory. The Olympics will be interesting that is for sure but I do hope that instead of 12 teams in the future if it is possible than I would like it if there are 4 teams more. It sucks not to see Olympic Quality teams like Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Canada and etc. Honestly Iran shouldn't even be there if we compare it to teams that did not make the cut but of course they earned their place by being the best Asian team and someone has to represent Asia one thing or another.

eal
07-21-2021, 02:19 PM
I do not like this new format at all. Two groups of six was the best and most equitable format. There is little integrity when it comes to separating third-placed teams that have all played different opposition.

Darrell Armstrong
07-21-2021, 02:38 PM
I do not like this new format at all. Two groups of six was the best and most equitable format. There is little integrity when it comes to separating third-placed teams that have all played different opposition.

But you get rid of losing games on purpose. The issue you mention already existed before: a team could be better than most of the teams from the other group that advanced to the quarterfinals and still be eliminated because it was placed in the strongest group.

each way
07-26-2021, 03:42 AM
Well Day 1 in the books.

Australia struggled in the first half against Nigeria but then they blew them out in the last quarter. Patty Mills again proves he turns into MJ when playing for his country.

USA lose and show once against sum of all parts doesn't make a great team. I don't know how they can find chemistry in such a short span.

Hepcat
07-26-2021, 03:44 AM
Patty Mills again proves he turns into MJ when playing for his country.

My hats off to Patty Mills. That's the way it should be.

:)

JGX
07-26-2021, 04:40 AM
Luka/Tobey time let's go

It's only the second day and I'm sure the time zone has an effect but having only four games per day really detracts from the tournament. Used to be that there was a basketball game on at almost all times for the first ten days, now it is just another event that pops up occasionally.

Katastroika
07-26-2021, 05:36 AM
Dončić is unreal!!

Katastroika
07-26-2021, 05:39 AM
I am fucking speechless. Greatest domination I have ever seen in FIBA. Grejmo Slovenci, grejmo Luka!!

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 05:40 AM
I am fucking speechless. Greatest domination I have ever seen in FIBA. Grejmo Slovenci, grejmo Luka!!

Thank for support. It's gremo btw. ;)

reamily
07-26-2021, 05:48 AM
Its a wonder why Pop making it complicated for Us to execute his offense, as if he is coaching an inept offensive team

Katastroika
07-26-2021, 05:50 AM
Thank for support. It's gremo btw. ;)

Gremo, ajmo, let's go, I can tell you all Serbia supports Slovenia and it's no wonder. Beautiful basketball. Slovenia will be team to beat next years.

Stevy
07-26-2021, 05:56 AM
Geez Slovenia is really doing this to Argentina, Damn.

JGX
07-26-2021, 06:17 AM
Obviously Doncic is fantastic but Slovenia in general plays the most like how the US should play of any non-US Olympic team in the modern era, maybe we can get Sekulic as our coach.

Also will be interesting to see if that plays into the hands of the US if the teams meet later on.

reamily
07-26-2021, 06:23 AM
Obviously Doncic is fantastic but Slovenia in general plays the most like how the US should play of any non-US Olympic team in the modern era, maybe we can get Sekulic as our coach.

Also will be interesting to see if that plays into the hands of the US if the teams meet later on.

High Usage basketball

Obina
07-26-2021, 06:26 AM
Doncic is the best european player with all respect to Giannis and Jokic.

Also I think he will be the best ever one day.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 06:40 AM
Obviously Doncic is fantastic but Slovenia in general plays the most like how the US should play of any non-US Olympic team in the modern era, maybe we can get Sekulic as our coach.

Also will be interesting to see if that plays into the hands of the US if the teams meet later on.

To be honest Slovenia without Luka was pretty bad today. Luka +/- 34, Rupnik who played instead of him - 14. Some starters, Blazic and Dragic, pretty awful too.

I have never seen 1 player to have such impact on NT.

Pop had Duncan, if he would have had Luka, nobody would have been angry at him.

Joško Poljak Fan
07-26-2021, 07:06 AM
Of course, I'll gladly take the W, but I liked how we played vs. Lithuania a lot more. That was trully one of the best bball NT performances i've seen.
All respect to Argentina, but with these TO's, lack of circulation and defensive screw-ups, that won't cut it for Slovenia in the elimination stages.

madmax
07-26-2021, 07:13 AM
how is it even legal for one player to be this insanely good lmao?:D Sometimes I do wonder if Doncic is actually from another planet and was genetically engineered by aliens to troll our perception of what a great player should look like...

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 07:17 AM
Of course, I'll gladly take the W, but I liked how we played vs. Lithuania a lot more. That was trully one of the best bball NT performances i've seen.
All respect to Argentina, but with these TO's, lack of circulation and defensive screw-ups, that won't cut it for Slovenia in the elimination stages.

This. Take Luka and maybe Prepelic out and this was pretty bad game from Slovenia.

ChuckDiesel2
07-26-2021, 07:24 AM
Doncic is the best european player with all respect to Giannis and Jokic.

Also I think he will be the best ever one day.

Best NBA/FIBA player for sure. Not a better overall player than Giannis though.

ChuckDiesel2
07-26-2021, 07:28 AM
I was in Slovenia for Eurobasket 2013 and saw first hand what a beautiful basketball country it was. Very happy for the Slovenes. Shout out Erazem Lorbek and Matjaz Smodis.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 07:31 AM
Best NBA/FIBA player for sure. Not a better overall player than Giannis though.

Luka with Jrue and Middleton would had been very near to win Nba this year. His playoff numbers were insane. Mavs just totally fucked up in last years. Not only with KP, who was fair gamble, but everything else was just total failure, ending with Curry/Richardson trade.

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 07:53 AM
Luka was good. The Slovenian coach may want to rest him in the last match of the 1st round to have him fresh for the elimination games. Yes?

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 07:55 AM
Luka was good. The Slovenian coach may want to rest him in the last match of the 1st round to have him fresh for the elimination games. Yes?

No. They would have lost by 30. Nobody wants that. Luka played 5 games/week schedule in Nba, with more minutes and travelling. I believe he can easily play every 2/3 days.

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 08:17 AM
No. They would have lost by 30. Nobody wants that. Luka played 5 games/week schedule in Nba, with more minutes and travelling. I believe he can easily play every 2/3 days.

But that last game is potentially meaningless. Why risk an injury and being forced to play quarterfinals without Luka? If Slovenia manages another +20 points win against Japan, they have the best 2nd place finish in the bag. Exactly the same QFs matchups as if they had won the group.

Load management.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 09:20 AM
But that last game is potentially meaningless. Why risk an injury and being forced to play quarterfinals without Luka? If Slovenia manages another +20 points win against Japan, they have the best 2nd place finish in the bag. Exactly the same QFs matchups as if they had won the group.

Load management.

Slovenia was + 34 with Luka and - 16 without him in 9 minutes. Nobody wants to go in elimination games with 30-40 points loss. He might play a little less but not much.

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 09:42 AM
Slovenia was + 34 with Luka and - 16 without him in 9 minutes. Nobody wants to go in elimination games with 30-40 points loss. He might play a little less but not much.

Now that I'm checking potential QFs matchups, I'm afraid you're right. I was under the impression that both Spain and Slovenia would benefit by qualifying 1st and best 2nd (which could be achieved by a close game, regardless of the winner). But that outcome will give both teams a 33% chance of facing Team USA in the QFs. By winning by a big margin, either Spain or Slovenia can ensure not only the 1st place, but help Team USA to qualify as best 2nd, and thus remove them from the pool of QFs rivals.

This is a bit like the prisoner's dilemma: the best outcome is the one that demands taking more risks. If any of these two teams go all out and lose some key player to injury, they can win but still face the same team in QFs as if they had rested and lost.

LuDux
07-26-2021, 09:43 AM
My imaginary sources confirm: after the game Sergio Scariolo called Darius Maskoliunas asking for advice how to contain Doncic

Nemanja95
07-26-2021, 09:59 AM
Could anybody post full game replay or web site on who could be seen full game replay. Tomorrow I didnt watch Italy- Germany, like today Slovenia- Argentina. There is no chance to wake up at 6 A.M. or to be awake untill 5 A.M. to watch first game. So,I cannot watch first two games, I try to find full game replay and find almost every sport on Olympics except basketball.

Serbian_Layup
07-26-2021, 10:24 AM
French team is pretty good. Batum-Yabusele-Gobert is a huge defensive block that can cover everything. Plus some combos with Gobert/Poirier or Fall/Poirier worked out pretty well giving them huge advantage on the glass. If they can be consistently good on defense, I think they can make it to the finals and maybe win it all if USA don't recover from this meltdown.

Slovenia reminds me of Phoenix Suns during Nash/Stoudemire years. One mastermind and bunch of role players with good finishing abilities that keep on playing simple plays. They can score a lot, but they also get scored on a lot. Extremely fun, but not sure if that's good enough for medal. Size and toughness still matter a lot in knockout games. They have good chances though.

Stevy
07-26-2021, 11:57 AM
Link for Japan vs Spain game, if you guys don't have a source.
https://www.olympicstreams.me/men-s-basketball-japan-vs-spain-live-stream/1/

madmax
07-26-2021, 12:45 PM
My imaginary sources confirm: after the game Sergio Scariolo called Darius Maskoliunas asking for advice how to contain Doncic

:D
well, he did "contain" him to abysmal 31, 11 and 13 after all...that's already an achievement in itself I guess lol

Nemanja95
07-26-2021, 01:50 PM
I was in Slovenia for Eurobasket 2013 and saw first hand what a beautiful basketball country it was. Very happy for the Slovenes. Shout out Erazem Lorbek and Matjaz Smodis.


They had probably better generation between 2005-10. Smodis, Lorbek, Becirovic, Dragic, Lakovic, Nachbar, but rarely they had complete squad. Now, they created synergy on wawes of winning Eurobasket 2017. Prepelic, Blazic, Zoran Dragic play better for nt in comparison with their clubs, Doncic is miraculous, so surprisingly they came in situation where are close for some medal.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 01:59 PM
They had probably better generation between 2005-10. Smodis, Lorbek, Becirovic, Dragic, Lakovic, Nachbar, but rarely they had complete squad. Now, they created synergy on wawes of winning Eurobasket 2017. Prepelic, Blazic, Zoran Dragic play better for nt in comparison with their clubs, Doncic is miraculous, so surprisingly they came in situation where are close for some medal.

Nobody is beating Slovenia when Luka plays like today. The problem will start, when he has an average game by his standards, because there's nobody, who can replace his scoring and playmaking. If Goran was playing, Slovenia would have been favourite for the medal, maybe even gold, now this team is Luka and friends, Luka will need to have 3 great games in elimination phase.

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 02:19 PM
Nobody is beating Slovenia when Luka plays like today. The problem will start, when he has an average game by his standards, because there's nobody, who can replace his scoring and playmaking. If Goran was playing, Slovenia would have been favourite for the medal, maybe even gold, now this team is Luka and friends, Luka will need to have 3 great games in elimination phase.

Reminds me to Dirk's Germany. They had some success but never won it all.

Hepcat
07-26-2021, 02:22 PM
No. They would have lost by 30. Nobody wants that. Luka played 5 games/week schedule in Nba, with more minutes and travelling. I believe he can easily play every 2/3 days.

These fellows are supposed to be superbly conditioned professional athletes. Playing every two to three days should NOT tax a basketball player, unless perhaps he's well beyond the age of forty.

Nemanja95
07-26-2021, 02:45 PM
Nobody is beating Slovenia when Luka plays like today. The problem will start, when he has an average game by his standards, because there's nobody, who can replace his scoring and playmaking. If Goran was playing, Slovenia would have been favourite for the medal, maybe even gold, now this team is Luka and friends, Luka will need to have 3 great games in elimination phase.

Mostly, I agree. But this year circumstances match to Slovenia, Usa will take medal, one of Spain and France, one of them could fail and if fail, opponents for medal will be Argentina, Italy, Germany and Australia. This is not so tough.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 02:58 PM
Mostly, I agree. But this year circumstances match to Slovenia, Usa will take medal, one of Spain and France, one of them could fail and if fail, opponents for medal will be Argentina, Italy, Germany and Australia. This is not so tough.

Before we see quarterfinal schedule, we cannot even guess anything. Anyone can go out before semis, USA included. I'm not even sure that USA is worse matchup for Slovenia than France. Gobert closing the paint looks more scary to me than those American superstar chuckers.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 03:01 PM
These fellows are supposed to be superbly conditioned professional athletes. Playing every two to three days should NOT tax a basketball player, unless perhaps he's well beyond the age of forty.

What Luka is doing is not something normal though. His usage is insane. On the other hand, he has lost some weight in last month. 4 difficult games in 7 days is still a lot.

usagre
07-26-2021, 03:06 PM
My predictions

Pretenders that will lose in quarters or if meet with each other will lose in semis and not medal:

Usa, Australia, Argentina

Medal contenders:

Spain, Slovenia, France, Italy

#1 Spain (it’s finally their time)
#2 Italy. (They will make a run like ‘04)
#3 France
#4 Slovenia

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 03:25 PM
I think it's still too early to make predictions. I don't know if Spain is going to medal, but I'm enjoying this sweet period before the old guard rides into the sunset; hopefully with some weight around their necks. Throughout exhibition games and today against Japan you can clearly see the guidelines of this team, building upon 2019 success while adding even more useful pieces. We have a style that is both efficient and suited to our player's strengths. And we stick to it against every opponent, big or small. The buy-in from players and coaches is complete. This is a stark contrast against other teams which look discombobulated (like USA or Argentina), or depend on a couple stars (like Slovenia or Japan).

In the end, small details can decide tournaments, and Spain can easily fall in quarterfinals like it has been our fate in other tournaments that begun auspiciously enough. But the confidence and commitment to a greater goal that this roster is displaying, that's satisfying enough if we keep it, even in a loss.

BTW, you may want to add Ricky Rubio to your MVP ballots. What he's doing this summer is outstanding so far. Dominated France, USA, and now Japan while only playing around 20 minutes. All while playing defence, unlike other MVP candidates...

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 03:28 PM
My predictions

Pretenders that will lose in quarters or if meet with each other will lose in semis and not medal:

Usa, Australia, Argentina

Medal contenders:

Spain, Slovenia, France, Italy

#1 Spain (it’s finally their time)
#2 Italy. (They will make a run like ‘04)
#3 France
#4 Slovenia

If Slovenia makes semis, Luka won't lose 2 games in a row.

I still have USA favourites, than France and Slovenia. But a lot depends on a draw.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 03:36 PM
I think it's still too early to make predictions. I don't know if Spain is going to medal, but I'm enjoying this sweet period before the old guard rides into the sunset; hopefully with some weight around their necks. Throughout exhibition games and today against Japan you can clearly see the guidelines of this team, building upon 2019 success while adding even more useful pieces. We have a style that is both efficient and suited to our player's strengths. And we stick to it against every opponent, big or small. The buy-in from players and coaches is complete. This is a stark contrast against other teams which look discombobulated (like USA or Argentina), or depend on a couple stars (like Slovenia or Japan).

In the end, small details can decide tournaments, and Spain can easily fall in quarterfinals like it has been our fate in other tournaments that begun auspiciously enough. But the confidence and commitment to a greater goal that this roster is displaying, that's satisfying enough if we keep it, even in a loss.

BTW, you may want to add Ricky Rubio to your MVP ballots. What he's doing this summer is outstanding so far. Dominated France, USA, and now Japan while only playing around 20 minutes. All while playing defence, unlike other MVP candidates...

Let's see how they will play against Slovenia. They were clear favourites in 2017, but it turned out very different.

I kinda doubt that Pg, who gets 11 rebounds and 3 blocks doesn't play D.

usagre
07-26-2021, 04:08 PM
I still have USA favourites, .

I don’t see it. Not with the state of mind and lack of confidence this team currently is experiencing that won’t be fixed with wins against Iran and the Czech Republic. Not to mention the cantankerous, pompous fool running the team that would rather go down with the ship than actually change his methods. Put all this together and I cannot see them winning three consecutive knockout games. In all honestly I think there’s a better chance they lose to the Czech Republic and get eliminated than them running the table and winning 5 in a row. Either way they’ll most likely lose in the quarterfinals and Popovich can have the honor of leading the worst World Championships and Olympic Usa teams ever. He deserves that accolade.

Levenspiel
07-26-2021, 04:17 PM
...I don't know if Spain is going to medal, but I'm enjoying this sweet period before the old guard rides into the sunset; hopefully with some weight around their necks...
hey this is a beautiful imagery... and describes the situation very well.

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 04:25 PM
Let's see how they will play against Slovenia. They were clear favourites in 2017, but it turned out very different.

I kinda doubt that Pg, who gets 11 rebounds and 3 blocks doesn't play D.

The group phase game against Slovenia means nothing. You tell me how important were those early blowout wins against Argentina in 2004, Russia in 2007, or France in 2014. If both teams advance far enough and square off again, it will be a completely new game.

My not-so-subtle dig was directed to Lillard and KD, but now that you mention it, Luka has to pace himself and obviously is not as active defensively as Rubio; who can go all out knowing he only has to play half the game. That doesn't prevent him from getting some highlights, but Sekulic is not giving him the toughest assignments routinely.

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 04:30 PM
hey this is a beautiful imagery... and describes the situation very well.


Thanks. I'm usually content if my NT plays well and advances as much as possible (humbly says the fan of a team hoarding 2 WCs, 3 Euros and 2 Olympic Finals). But this time I'm more emotionally attached because the idea of Pau, Marc and Rudy earning a golden retirement is too attractive not to.

Hepcat
07-26-2021, 04:34 PM
Now that I'm checking potential QFs matchups, I'm afraid you're right. I was under the impression that both Spain and Slovenia would benefit by qualifying 1st and best 2nd (which could be achieved by a close game, regardless of the winner). But that outcome will give both teams a 33% chance of facing Team USA in the QFs. By winning by a big margin, either Spain or Slovenia can ensure not only the 1st place, but help Team USA to qualify as best 2nd, and thus remove them from the pool of QFs rivals.

This is a bit like the prisoner's dilemma: the best outcome is the one that demands taking more risks. If any of these two teams go all out and lose some key player to injury, they can win but still face the same team in QFs as if they had rested and lost.

I don't understand the thinking behind changing the format for qualifying for the playoffs. How can the two "best" third place teams be determined when the teams don't play the same opponents?

And secondly when was a deserving team ever eliminated from the playoffs in the past? After all, teams with 2-3 records can hardly be classified as "deserving". If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Why don't people ever learn from this simple adage?

:confused:

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 04:40 PM
The group phase game against Slovenia means nothing. You tell me how important were those early blowout wins against Argentina in 2004, Russia in 2007, or France in 2014. If both teams advance far enough and square off again, it will be a completely new game.

My not-so-subtle dig was directed to Lillard and KD, but now that you mention it, Luka has to pace himself and obviously is not as active defensively as Rubio; who can go all out knowing he only has to play half the game. That doesn't prevent him from getting some highlights, but Sekulic is not giving him the toughest assignments routinely.

Luka is not getting toughest assignments, but his rebounding is crucial. He was something like 6th rebounder in Eurobasket too. He's for sure above average team defender.

It's not about Sunday's game, it's about how will Spain prevent Luka to get favourable switches. Gasol brothers would have probably been killed there, Garuba looks the most promising. I kinda doubt Spain can beat Slovenia playing like against Japan.

ncjazz
07-26-2021, 04:57 PM
hey this is a beautiful imagery... and describes the situation very well.

Question is "old guard" to old and can the younger players make up for it. The younger talent is somewhat lacking now especially with no Juancho.

ChuckDiesel2
07-26-2021, 05:33 PM
Luka with Jrue and Middleton would had been very near to win Nba this year. His playoff numbers were insane. Mavs just totally fucked up in last years. Not only with KP, who was fair gamble, but everything else was just total failure, ending with Curry/Richardson trade.

There isn’t a situation on earth that would put Luka close to the same level as Giannis defensively.

ChuckDiesel2
07-26-2021, 05:36 PM
They had probably better generation between 2005-10. Smodis, Lorbek, Becirovic, Dragic, Lakovic, Nachbar, but rarely they had complete squad. Now, they created synergy on wawes of winning Eurobasket 2017. Prepelic, Blazic, Zoran Dragic play better for nt in comparison with their clubs, Doncic is miraculous, so surprisingly they came in situation where are close for some medal.

One of my favorite FIBA games of all time was Slovenia vs Serbia at the 09 Eurobasket. Young Teo. Underhanded Slovenia with Lorbek doing Kevin McHale shit. Whistles were swallowed, hand to hand combat encouraged. Classic affair.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 05:56 PM
There isn’t a situation on earth that would put Luka close to the same level as Giannis defensively.

He doesn't need to be with 35.7/7.9/10.3 and 41% for 3, almost all unassisted, with huge volume. Mavs needed someone to play D, secondary guard and secondary scorer. Basically Jrue and Middleton would have been perfect. Nobody is winning title with THJ as second best player and Marjanovic defending pick&roll.

ChuckDiesel2
07-26-2021, 08:52 PM
He doesn't need to be with 35.7/7.9/10.3 and 41% for 3, almost all unassisted, with huge volume. Mavs needed someone to play D, secondary guard and secondary scorer. Basically Jrue and Middleton would have been perfect. Nobody is winning title with THJ as second best player and Marjanovic defending pick&roll.

It’s not a given he’d be able to maintain his conditioning to be at the level required to win 16 playoff games. We saw him wear down in the 2nd half of games in a single series. Not a legitimate conversation till he gets out of the first round.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 09:22 PM
It’s not a given he’d be able to maintain his conditioning to be at the level required to win 16 playoff games. We saw him wear down in the 2nd half of games in a single series. Not a legitimate conversation till he gets out of the first round.

I kinda doubt that 36/8/10 player is guilty for not coming out of first round, but if MJ had to wait for first title till 28, Luka can too. Maybe we can at least say that Luka is few classes better Fiba player than Giannis?

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 09:33 PM
It's not about Sunday's game, it's about how will Spain prevent Luka to get favourable switches. Gasol brothers would have probably been killed there, Garuba looks the most promising. I kinda doubt Spain can beat Slovenia playing like against Japan.

I'll follow that with interest. In the World Cup, after a so-so first round play and a slugfest against Italy, everyone (me included) was doubting Spain. How can they stop Jokic and Bogdanovic? They found a way. How are they going to stop Patty Mills? They found a way. How are they going to stop Scola? They always found a way.

Not saying it's a given Scariolo can solve the Doncic riddle, but at this point I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 09:51 PM
I'll follow that with interest. In the World Cup, after a so-so first round play and a slugfest against Italy, everyone (me included) was doubting Spain. How can they stop Jokic and Bogdanovic? They found a way. How are they going to stop Patty Mills? They found a way. How are they going to stop Scola? They always found a way.

Not saying it's a given Scariolo can solve the Doncic riddle, but at this point I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

They didn't find the way how to stop Slovenia in semis of Eurobasket. Slovenia plays similar basketball now, no Dragic, but Luka much better than then.

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 10:19 PM
They didn't find the way how to stop Slovenia in semis of Eurobasket. Slovenia plays similar basketball now, no Dragic, but Luka much better than then.

Yep, and we didn't find a way to score on France in 2014, then beat them in 2015 and 2016. There's not a lot in common between the teams that squared off 4 years ago. We'll see what happens.

You reminded me of a neat piece of trivia: that was our last loss in a major tournament. And our only loss by more than 10 points since 2014.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 10:43 PM
Yep, and we didn't find a way to score on France in 2014, then beat them in 2015 and 2016. There's not a lot in common between the teams that squared off 4 years ago. We'll see what happens.

You reminded me of a neat piece of trivia: that was our last loss in a major tournament. And our only loss by more than 10 points since 2014.

Yes, Spain is great for a long time, on the other hand Luka is 14:0 with Slovenia. ;)

Nemanja95
07-26-2021, 10:56 PM
I'll follow that with interest. In the World Cup, after a so-so first round play and a slugfest against Italy, everyone (me included) was doubting Spain. How can they stop Jokic and Bogdanovic? They found a way. How are they going to stop Patty Mills? They found a way. How are they going to stop Scola? They always found a way.

Not saying it's a given Scariolo can solve the Doncic riddle, but at this point I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Simply, Spain has great players with experience and even they are not in great shape they could do big things.


On the other hand, there a some tournaments in the past to confirm they does not play super-human basketball, in some case Spain had some indecent play and results like against France 2014. or against Russia 2007 or against Serbia 2010 or against Slovenia 2017. Spain very much depends how them match circumstances on a tournament.

Probably, most realistic situation it will be like Olympics 2016 on the other hand for me is closer to failure than success this year. Simply, too old roster, I do not see physical abilities for one more great year and tournament.

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 11:12 PM
I don't remember more open tournament than this. USA, France, Spain, Australia, Slovenia all have chances and I wouldn't write off at least Italy and Argentina. And with this system we will have some favourites for the medal going against each other in quarters. Totally unpredictable.

Nemanja95
07-26-2021, 11:13 PM
One of my favorite FIBA games of all time was Slovenia vs Serbia at the 09 Eurobasket. Young Teo. Underhanded Slovenia with Lorbek doing Kevin McHale shit. Whistles were swallowed, hand to hand combat encouraged. Classic affair.

Seems to me, you better remember this game than me. How I can remember, both teams had uncompleted roster, we had extremely young team, Slovenia without 3 or 4 leaders ,Lorbek exploded this tournament. Intense game, equal, on extra time Teodosic solved the game and played first big game in career, he almost turned career in wrong way, that brought him enormous rising. Final game was miserable, Spain broke us in any sense , Slovenia lost 3rd place game tightly against Greece so they waited medal until 2017. Who took medal out the hands 2009, them was taken gold medal almost out the hands from old fellow.

ChuckDiesel2
07-27-2021, 12:29 AM
I kinda doubt that 36/8/10 player is guilty for not coming out of first round, but if MJ had to wait for first title till 28, Luka can too. Maybe we can at least say that Luka is few classes better Fiba player than Giannis?

Can’t argue that. His coaches have been “a few classes better” too. I know Giannis’s flaws stand out more in FIBA but it would help if the Greek system distinguished between how they use Giannis and Thanasis.

Jackie Reaper
07-27-2021, 03:21 AM
I don't remember more open tournament than this. USA, France, Spain, Australia, Slovenia all have chances and I wouldn't write off at least Italy and Argentina. And with this system we will have some favourites for the medal going against each other in quarters. Totally unpredictable.

Don't discount Italy. They are playing beautiful basketball recently. I love the fact that they running motion offense smoothly - such a unique thjng for a European team.

Shawshank
07-27-2021, 06:55 AM
I would like to see final Aus-Slo after watching most teams.

But Spain,France,Usa,Italy maybe will have something to say about that.

I rank those 6 teams best in this olympic tournament.

Killer Bob
07-27-2021, 07:04 AM
Can’t argue that. His coaches have been “a few classes better” too. I know Giannis’s flaws stand out more in FIBA but it would help if the Greek system distinguished between how they use Giannis and Thanasis.

It's more about the rules. Smaller court, less spacing, different D and especially no 3 seconds defensive rule. You just fill the paint and Giannis will have problems.

Talking about Luka's coaching is a bit exaggerated. Laso was great for his development, Kokoskov made the right system for him and Dragic, but after that their job is really simple. Luka is a system. You just have to surround him with shooters. He's creating everything for himself and others.

Darrell Armstrong
07-27-2021, 08:09 AM
Don't discount Italy. They are playing beautiful basketball recently. I love the fact that they running motion offense smoothly - such a unique thjng for a European team.

The lack of post players may give them some trouble against certain matchups, like France or Spain. But I also like how they play. They're much improved since getting rid of Belinelli and Gentile.

Darrell Armstrong
07-27-2021, 08:24 AM
Simply, Spain has great players with experience and even they are not in great shape they could do big things.


On the other hand, there a some tournaments in the past to confirm they does not play super-human basketball, in some case Spain had some indecent play and results like against France 2014. or against Russia 2007 or against Serbia 2010 or against Slovenia 2017. Spain very much depends how them match circumstances on a tournament.

Probably, most realistic situation it will be like Olympics 2016 on the other hand for me is closer to failure than success this year. Simply, too old roster, I do not see physical abilities for one more great year and tournament.

Well, if I had a dime for each time someone has called the Spanish players washed up, I'd count myself rich. In this very same board you can go back to 2012 (9 years ago, mind you) and find quite a lot of posters claiming Spain's era was over and how Russia was already a better team with a brighter future.

Yes, we have a number of players who have extended their careers much longer than expected. They are not playing that bad, and only 5 games separate them from the gold. Our roster is deep and no single player has to play big minutes or take all the responsibility. As you say, they're not superhuman and can have a bad day and lose against anyone. As every other team. But I'm certain it won't be because any physical limitation. Take a look at the defence played against France, USA, and Japan: sharp and unrelenting. I doubt 5 games is going to take such a great toll, even for the vets.

BTW, bowing out only against the Olympic Champions and going home with a medal can never be considered a failure. What expectations do you have before a tournament? Winning every game by 20+?

Dirtyh
07-27-2021, 08:56 AM
Luka is 14:0 with Slovenia. ;)

And the closest game was against Finland!

Nemanja95
07-27-2021, 10:11 AM
Well, if I had a dime for each time someone has called the Spanish players washed up, I'd count myself rich. In this very same board you can go back to 2012 (9 years ago, mind you) and find quite a lot of posters claiming Spain's era was over and how Russia was already a better team with a brighter future.

Yes, we have a number of players who have extended their careers much longer than expected. They are not playing that bad, and only 5 games separate them from the gold. Our roster is deep and no single player has to play big minutes or take all the responsibility. As you say, they're not superhuman and can have a bad day and lose against anyone. As every other team. But I'm certain it won't be because any physical limitation. Take a look at the defence played against France, USA, and Japan: sharp and unrelenting. I doubt 5 games is going to take such a great toll, even for the vets.

BTW, bowing out only against the Olympic Champions and going home with a medal can never be considered a failure. What expectations do you have before a tournament? Winning every game by 20+?

Obviously, most of players in Spain NT are long term but this is eldest team of Spain. For example, Llull and Fernandez without full capacity of physical abilities will play correct but not like Gasol and Navaro in same ages who could play very good because Gasol is physical phenomenon but Navaro is not physical player and he played despite that. On the other hand, there are not just old leaders of team, but those with secondary role like Claver and Rodriguez.

In one game, Spain could win against better opponent but on the level of tournament many problems are possible. I think that i will be seen yet in this group or tomorrow against Argentina or against Slovenia or in both games. Both teams play very quickly, could make series of 3p shoots, offensive trasnisiton, good pass like Argentina, all those problems Spain will suffer for solve it. Also, Spain has little space for calculation with commitment during tournament, two important games in group, after that next is quarter-final, so Spain like every NT need to have disposition without big variations what is extremely difficult with so old players.

Darrell Armstrong
07-27-2021, 10:42 AM
Obviously, most of players in Spain NT are long term but this is eldest team of Spain. For example, Llull and Fernandez without full capacity of physical abilities will play correct but not like Gasol and Navaro in same ages who could play very good because Gasol is physical phenomenon but Navaro is not physical player and he played despite that. On the other hand, there are not just old leaders of team, but those with secondary role like Claver and Rodriguez.

In one game, Spain could win against better opponent but on the level of tournament many problems are possible. I think that i will be seen yet in this group or tomorrow against Argentina or against Slovenia or in both games. Both teams play very quickly, could make series of 3p shoots, offensive trasnisiton, good pass like Argentina, all those problems Spain will suffer for solve it. Also, Spain has little space for calculation with commitment during tournament, two important games in group, after that next is quarter-final, so Spain like every NT need to have disposition without big variations what is extremely difficult with so old players.

I don't know if Argentina, a team that is playing old man Scola at center, is going to be extremely difficult for Spain. But we'll see.

Nemanja95
07-27-2021, 10:55 AM
I don't know if Argentina, a team that is playing old man Scola at center, is going to be extremely difficult for Spain. But we'll see.

I didnt say against Argentina will be extremely difficult, nor will be extremely difficult for Spain to keep constantly high level on 3 or 4 games with such old team.

DunkOnYa
07-27-2021, 12:01 PM
I don't know if Argentina, a team that is playing old man Scola at center, is going to be extremely difficult for Spain. But we'll see.

They've scored 100 points in their first game... If we have a below average defensive day, we can get roasted pretty good. Serbia and France got smoked by Argentina in 2019...this team is dangerous!

Darrell Armstrong
07-27-2021, 12:29 PM
They've scored 100 points in their first game... If we have a below average defensive day, we can get roasted pretty good. Serbia and France got smoked by Argentina in 2019...this team is dangerous!

No one's denying that. But I'm not buying an argument like "Spain is too old" when Argentina doesn't have a top post player other than Scola. Let's find another reason to be worried about.

Hepcat
07-27-2021, 04:39 PM
I don't know if Argentina, a team that is playing old man Scola at center, is going to be extremely difficult for Spain.

Luis Scola is still just a youngster in my book.

;)

reamily
07-27-2021, 05:42 PM
I really think Brazil had a good team that can be competitive here, given are Serbia and Lithuania, thats why you see Italy and Slovenia to be doing special in this tournament..

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 06:43 AM
Slovenia easily averaging 117 points. :cool:

usagre
07-29-2021, 08:45 AM
Slovenia easily averaging 117 points. :cool:

Just to put it in perspective no European team has averaged 100 at the Olympics in over 40 years. Slovenia is putting up Dream Team offensive numbers.

Straight forward
07-29-2021, 08:50 AM
I also declare that for the first time (since 1988 or something when it was between Sabonis, Petrovic, Robinson as best players) we have a white European dude as the best player in Olympics. To me Slovenia is not only medal worthy, it's a legitimate contender.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 08:58 AM
Someone is going to have a very bad QF matchup as a reward for winning its group. France, USA, Spain and Slovenia can't all be placed as top seeds at the same time. Quite likely, one of France, USA, or Australia will face the loser of Slovenia vs. Spain.

Who doesn't want to see a France vs. Spain QF in the Olympics yet again? Although a Team USA vs. Slovenia would be enticing as well.

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 09:02 AM
Someone is going to have a very bad QF matchup as a reward for winning its group. France, USA, Spain and Slovenia can't all be placed as top seeds at the same time. Quite likely, one of France, USA, or Australia will face the loser of Slovenia vs. Spain.

Who doesn't want to see a France vs. Spain QF in the Olympics yet again? Although a Team USA vs. Slovenia would be enticing as well.

I kinda count on Argentina today. ;) It turned out that winning the group C is not that unimportant after all.

usagre
07-29-2021, 09:23 AM
I also declare that for the first time (since 1988 or something when it was between Sabonis, Petrovic, Robinson as best players) we have a white European dude as the best player in Olympics. .

You’re probably right but I still need to see how Durant looks in the knockout round. We might be exaggerating his demise.
He was great in the Milwaukee series and had he worn the proper size sneaker there is a better chance than not that he would have led Brooklyn to the title and won NBA Finals MVP. Luka is the better all around player but I still need to see if Durant can be that unstoppable offensive weapon that he has always been in FIBA play.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 09:23 AM
I kinda count on Argentina today. ;) It turned out that winning the group C is not that unimportant after all.

You know, even if Argentina pulls the upset against Spain, it doesn't mean a thing unless they can finish off the work against Japan. Otherwise the first place of the group is still going to the winner of Slovenia vs. Spain.

And, there's still some chances of having Team USA as a potential QF matchup for the winner of group C, which is the scenario I was fearing. Really, it doesn't make me any more afraid going against France or Australia in QFs (Spain has big wins against both in recent years) than against Italy. Team USA on the other hand, I want them in a gold medal game, not before.

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 10:08 AM
You know, even if Argentina pulls the upset against Spain, it doesn't mean a thing unless they can finish off the work against Japan. Otherwise the first place of the group is still going to the winner of Slovenia vs. Spain.

And, there's still some chances of having Team USA as a potential QF matchup for the winner of group C, which is the scenario I was fearing. Really, it doesn't make me any more afraid going against France or Australia in QFs (Spain has big wins against both in recent years) than against Italy. Team USA on the other hand, I want them in a gold medal game, not before.

Argentina is way better than Japan. They were just unlucky to get Luka in MJ version. I don't believe Spain would have done much better with Luka playing like that. Sure, Spain is a favourite today but Argentina is having some chances too. So don't be angry, if I root for them. ;)

I agree, nobody wants to play USA. I personally don't like France too with Gobert camping in the paint.

Levenspiel
07-29-2021, 10:15 AM
Luis Scola is still just a youngster in my book.

;)
in his podcast with Kyle Hines recently (the players podcast), he said he is planning to announce his retirement after the tournament, but won't make it official yet.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 10:38 AM
Argentina is way better than Japan. They were just unlucky to get Luka in MJ version. I don't believe Spain would have done much better with Luka playing like that. Sure, Spain is a favourite today but Argentina is having some chances too. So don't be angry, if I root for them. ;)

I agree, nobody wants to play USA. I personally don't like France too with Gobert camping in the paint.

Well, Argentina hasn't played a good game this summer, meanwhile Japan beat France. I don't know at this point if there's such a talent gap between both teams. Of course I'm fine with you rooting for them. I was rooting for Japan today, and will root again for them against Argentina, just because I'd like to see some unexpected results in this tournament.

From my point of view, assuming Spain can beat Argentina, to reach gold we need to beat three good teams in a row. The order doesn't really matter. We either need to win Slovenia and 2 of the other medal contenders, or 3 of the medal contenders (one of which could be Slovenia in semis or even the final).

Stevy
07-29-2021, 10:44 AM
Well, Argentina hasn't played a good game this summer, meanwhile Japan beat France. I don't know at this point if there's such a talent gap between both teams. Of course I'm fine with you rooting for them. I was rooting for Japan today, and will root again for them against Argentina, just because I'd like to see some unexpected results in this tournament.

From my point of view, assuming Spain can beat Argentina, to reach gold we need to beat three good teams in a row. The order doesn't really matter. We either need to win Slovenia and 2 of the other medal contenders, or 3 of the medal contenders (one of which could be Slovenia in semis or even the final).

Score would have been closer if Japan's Naturalized player was not injured. It should have been a 15 point victory for Slovenia and it was at pace to reach that number only. After the dude went down, Japan's defense fell apart. If Edwards won't play against Argentina their chances will get lower. I hope Edwards is okay because I am rooting for Japan as well.

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 11:04 AM
Score would have been closer if Japan's Naturalized player was not injured. It should have been a 15 point victory for Slovenia and it was at pace to reach that number only. After the dude went down, Japan's defense fell apart. If Edwards won't play against Argentina their chances will get lower. I hope Edwards is okay because I am rooting for Japan as well.

Score went up, when Slovenia has finally started to hit 3s. I kinda doubt that Edvards would have been much of a factor defending that.

Stevy
07-29-2021, 11:26 AM
Score went up, when Slovenia has finally started to hit 3s. I kinda doubt that Edvards would have been much of a factor defending that.

Slovenia hit their threes because they lost a key player on their defensive rotation, I am not saying Japan will win but I had Slovenia winning by 15 in my predictions. Kind of like when I predicted that Spain vs Japan would only be a 10-11 point victory. People are sleeping too much on Japan. Slovenia started to pull away when Edwards was gone. Japan needs every player that they need because they aren't as talented. Without Edwards the game would not even be competitive.

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 11:33 AM
Well, Argentina hasn't played a good game this summer, meanwhile Japan beat France. I don't know at this point if there's such a talent gap between both teams. Of course I'm fine with you rooting for them. I was rooting for Japan today, and will root again for them against Argentina, just because I'd like to see some unexpected results in this tournament.

From my point of view, assuming Spain can beat Argentina, to reach gold we need to beat three good teams in a row. The order doesn't really matter. We either need to win Slovenia and 2 of the other medal contenders, or 3 of the medal contenders (one of which could be Slovenia in semis or even the final).

I don't know, just to avoid USA means something, than you have France/Australia vs. something from Germany/Italy/Nigeria/Czech.

Katastroika
07-29-2021, 11:42 AM
Bob, what' your take on Prle so far?

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 12:02 PM
Bob, what' your take on Prle so far?

I like him a lot. Classic shooter. He had pretty bad shooting day today, but who cares, he will be crucial in knockout phase. He's the only player except Luka that I would trust to make important shots. Only problem is his D.

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 12:08 PM
Slovenia hit their threes because they lost a key player on their defensive rotation, I am not saying Japan will win but I had Slovenia winning by 15 in my predictions. Kind of like when I predicted that Spain vs Japan would only be a 10-11 point victory. People are sleeping too much on Japan. Slovenia started to pull away when Edwards was gone. Japan needs every player that they need because they aren't as talented. Without Edwards the game would not even be competitive.

People are sleeping on Argentina not Japan. They were second in WC, many their players better than then.

Straight forward
07-29-2021, 12:50 PM
Argentina pushed the ball quite nicely and played more attractive uptempo basketball, but couldn't exactly keep it up. Spaniards are still tougher, bigger team even if slightly slower ATM. I think Spanish perimeter defence is underrated, that's what makes them irritating to play against.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 01:00 PM
Argentina pushed the ball quite nicely and played more attractive uptempo basketball, but couldn't exactly keep it up. Spaniards are still tougher, bigger team even if slightly slower ATM. I think Spanish perimeter defence is underrated, that's what makes them irritating to play against.

Spain had the best defence in 2019, and looks like we haven't lost a step. 9 points allowed in this quarter, several attacks gone to waste without even putting up a shot in 24 seconds... It's a lot easier to get through bad shooting streaks when you have a defence this good.

Serbian_Layup
07-29-2021, 01:00 PM
Argentina pushed the ball quite nicely and played more attractive uptempo basketball, but couldn't exactly keep it up. Spaniards are still tougher, bigger team even if slightly slower ATM. I think Spanish perimeter defence is underrated, that's what makes them irritating to play against.
Absolutely. No matter how old they are, their mindset is impressive. They still play the same way they have always played. They have adjusted a little bit because of age, but still all of their guards are so pesky and aggressive on ball defenders, they just don't let you to catch a break. That's continuity and incredible culture they have established throughout all these years.

Nemanja95
07-29-2021, 01:18 PM
I m disappointed with Argentina, again they have same problem like two years ago. Defense on pf and c are very weak, only Laprovitola is on good mood, distribution ball in offense is less then they need and can. Spain cut lines of pass, play inside 3p is also missing. They missed in plan like in conduct of plan on the court.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 01:29 PM
I m disappointed with Argentina, again they have same problem like two years ago. Defense on pf and c are very weak, only Laprovitola is on good mood, distribution ball in offense is less then they need and can. Spain cut lines of pass, play inside 3p is also missing. They missed in plan like in conduct of plan on the court.

What did you expect? Delia, Caffaro and Tayavek don't play in elite leagues. Scola is 41, and was never known for his defensive prowess. They have Deck masquerading as a PF and he's their best bet there, but gives up a lot of height against true post players. Italy has the same problem, and Slovenia would have it were not for the hiring of Tobey.

reamily
07-29-2021, 01:40 PM
That spain defence, bannered by 30 year olds, who wouldve thought defense is a young mans game..

Nemanja95
07-29-2021, 01:46 PM
What did you expect? Delia, Caffaro and Tayavek don't play in elite leagues. Scola is 41, and was never known for his defensive prowess. They have Deck masquerading as a PF and he's their best bet there, but gives up a lot of height against true post players. Italy has the same problem, and Slovenia would have it were not for the hiring of Tobey.


Argentina could compete and maybe win this game if impose high pace, they have many players with good pass and good shoot.Motion without ball was not enough for style of players of Argentina.

In defense they on beginning play deny and hedge on high pnr with Delia and that was good, they that could not play full game but on some period they could play some variation of pressing good. Also, I expected more defensive commitment of short players on defense on post.

I don`t understand what was really plan of game. Playing high control game with opponent who is two steps physical stronger and taller and who has better individuals, on other hand you have many players who needs space and high pace, and Spain has many old players who cannot compete in longer periods on faster pace to team like Argentina. You lost and you even don`t know why? Ok, Spain has better player, they are better physically, many players in good shape for this game, but what you did to stop them and change direction of their comfort zone ? Almost nothing.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 01:52 PM
Argentina could compete and maybe win this game if impose high pace, they have many players with good pass and good shoot.Motion without ball was not enough for style of players of Argentina.

In defense they on beginning play deny and hedge on high pnr with Delia and that was good, they that could not play full game but on some period they could play some variation of pressing good. Also, I expected more defensive commitment of short players on defense on post.

I don`t understand what was really plan of game. Playing high control game with opponent who is two steps physical stronger and taller and who has better individuals, on other hand you have many players who needs space and high pace, and Spain has many old players who cannot compete in longer periods on faster pace to team like Argentina. You lost and you even don`t know why? Ok, Spain has better player, they are better physically, many players in good shape for this game, but what you did to stop them and change direction of their comfort zone ? Almost nothing.

They did what they could. They came out trying to outhustle Spain, bordering aggresion on some plays, and they won the first quarter. But you cannot play 40 minutes like that, not with a short bench. Coach Hernández may have blundered today, but, really, they have lost all the games they have played this summer. You cannot discount this as having a bad day.

I'm not really sold on Argentina being able to pull the win against Japan. It would be a very sad goodbye for Scola, but, sadly, they just don't have the magic this time around.

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 02:07 PM
They did what they could. They came out trying to outhustle Spain, bordering aggresion on some plays, and they won the first quarter. But you cannot play 40 minutes like that, not with a short bench. Coach Hernández may have blundered today, but, really, they have lost all the games they have played this summer. You cannot discount this as having a bad day.

I'm not really sold on Argentina being able to pull the win against Japan. It would be a very sad goodbye for Scola, but, sadly, they just don't have the magic this time around.

The only thing positive in this game on both side, except good D from Spain, was Rubio shooting like Curry. Everything else really average. Villdoza disastrous and Campazzo still cannot shoot.

juli_rc
07-29-2021, 02:11 PM
Argentina could compete and maybe win this game if impose high pace, they have many players with good pass and good shoot.Motion without ball was not enough for style of players of Argentina.

In defense they on beginning play deny and hedge on high pnr with Delia and that was good, they that could not play full game but on some period they could play some variation of pressing good. Also, I expected more defensive commitment of short players on defense on post.

I don`t understand what was really plan of game. Playing high control game with opponent who is two steps physical stronger and taller and who has better individuals, on other hand you have many players who needs space and high pace, and Spain has many old players who cannot compete in longer periods on faster pace to team like Argentina. You lost and you even don`t know why? Ok, Spain has better player, they are better physically, many players in good shape for this game, but what you did to stop them and change direction of their comfort zone ? Almost nothing.

High pace could end on high margin points difference. Argentina played high pace on 2019, and it's worked out, with Slovenia played the same way making 100 points, but ended on a -18 points deficit.
As today game goes on, Argentina changed and played with the mind set on Japan.
Argentina need to defeat Japan by 1, and needs a USA win by 14 points.
Japan need a win by one and needs a USA win by 32 points.
I think the two second best team will be from group B and C.

juli_rc
07-29-2021, 02:17 PM
Campazzo, Vildoza and Deck are playing horrendous...
Campazzo is gas out, Deck had COVID one month ago, and Vildoza has to be cut by the NY Knicks.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 02:19 PM
Campazzo, Vildoza and Deck are playing horrendous...
Campazzo is gas out, Deck had COVID one month ago, and Vildoza has to be cut by the NY Knicks.

I sure hope they don't cut him because of his performance with the NT. Spain's defence makes almost everyone look bad. You just have to remember how in 2019 Jokic and Bogdanovic were everyone's darlings, and they were ineffective against us.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 02:27 PM
Ricky getting more MVP votes by the day...

reamily
07-29-2021, 02:30 PM
This is now the reason while the current olympic format will suck..

Katastroika
07-29-2021, 02:35 PM
I sure hope they don't cut him because of his performance with the NT. Spain's defence makes almost everyone look bad. You just have to remember how in 2019 Jokic and Bogdanovic were everyone's darlings, and they were ineffective against us.

Bogdanović was ineffective against you? What game have you watched, bro :) He had 26 pts, 40 percent for 3 and 67 percent for 2. We lost because everybody was bricking on the combo zone Scariolo put up at Spain being down by 9. This changed rhythm in your favour.

Katastroika
07-29-2021, 02:38 PM
Very good Spain, Slovenia and France until now. I really think this is a great tournament.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 02:43 PM
Bogdanović was ineffective against you? What game have you watched, bro :) He had 26 pts, 40 percent for 3 and 67 percent for 2. We lost because everybody was bricking on the combo zone Scariolo put up at Spain being down by 9. This changed rhythm in your favour.

I watched that game 2 years ago, so excuse me if details are a bit blurry. But, yes, Bogdanovic was knocking down his shots while Jokic finished with 6 points.

Katastroika
07-29-2021, 03:08 PM
I watched that game 2 years ago, so excuse me if details are a bit blurry. But, yes, Bogdanovic was knocking down his shots while Jokic finished with 6 points.

No problems, you kicked our asses. Details are not that important.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 03:18 PM
No problems, you kicked our asses. Details are not that important.

It was really an unbelievable turning point. Serbia was the top team in the tournament up to that game, winning all games by an average of 40 points, scoring over 100 points per game, and boasting of the best 1-2 punch with Jokic and Bogdanovic.

And yet failed to score 70 points against Spain. Gives you a bit of perspective when people talk up Slovenia's play and Doncic being unstoppable.

Katastroika
07-29-2021, 03:27 PM
It was really an unbelievable turning point. Serbia was the top team in the tournament up to that game, winning all games by an average of 40 points, scoring over 100 points per game, and boasting of the best 1-2 punch with Jokic and Bogdanovic.

And yet failed to score 70 points against Spain. Gives you a bit of perspective when people talk up Slovenia's play and Doncic being unstoppable.

It's true. There are simmilarities, especially psychologically. Recovering is crucial if you are rolling and hit the wall at certain points.

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 03:52 PM
It was really an unbelievable turning point. Serbia was the top team in the tournament up to that game, winning all games by an average of 40 points, scoring over 100 points per game, and boasting of the best 1-2 punch with Jokic and Bogdanovic.

And yet failed to score 70 points against Spain. Gives you a bit of perspective when people talk up Slovenia's play and Doncic being unstoppable.

Nobody is unstoppable. Luka was stopped 1 time this season by Simmons and Embiid. Maybe Spain will be second.

judasmartel
07-29-2021, 03:55 PM
This is now the reason while the current olympic format will suck..

At least with this format it's pretty hard if not impossible to tank for better matchups.

Nemanja95
07-29-2021, 03:57 PM
It was really an unbelievable turning point. Serbia was the top team in the tournament up to that game, winning all games by an average of 40 points, scoring over 100 points per game, and boasting of the best 1-2 punch with Jokic and Bogdanovic.

And yet failed to score 70 points against Spain. Gives you a bit of perspective when people talk up Slovenia's play and Doncic being unstoppable.


Actually, it was not turning point. We had many problems before preparations for tournament, that continues through preparations, on tournament we had not respectable opponent except Italy until game against Spain.

On first really challenging game we show up disastrous. It just needed the trigger who produce mess up. If we win this game, we would have Poland in quarter-final, we would win that and on the end we will be 3rd or 4th place. We were weaker than France, Argentina and Spain on tournament. Image on Serbia this tournament, could be consider like media phenomenon, why was that and on what is based ?

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 04:03 PM
Nobody is unstoppable. Luka was stopped 1 time this season by Simmons and Embiid. Maybe Spain will be second.

There's a chance. I'm looking forward to that game, at least it will be a nice challenge.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 04:08 PM
Actually, it was not turning point. We had many problems before preparations for tournament, that continues through preparations, on tournament we had not respectable opponent except Italy until game against Spain.

On first really challenging game we show up disastrous. It just needed the trigger who produce mess up. If we win this game, we would have Poland in quarter-final, we would win that and on the end we will be 3rd or 4th place. We were weaker than France, Argentina and Spain on tournament. Image on Serbia this tournament, could be consider like media phenomenon, why was that and on what is based ?

I get your point, but starting a tournament winning 4 games by 40 points, then clearly losing two in a row is quite a surprise.

Nemanja95
07-29-2021, 04:36 PM
I get your point, but starting a tournament winning 4 games by 40 points, then clearly losing two in a row is quite a surprise.

Against Philippines and Angola wins with any point differences is irrelevant for highest level.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 04:48 PM
Against Philippines and Angola wins with any point differences is irrelevant for highest level.

Angola eliminated us from our own Olympics (Barcelona 92), beating us fair and square. 20 points difference. It became a meme, "el angolazo" (difficult to translate, it means something like "hit with Angola" which even entered popular culture and was used to refer to any other unexpected big loss. For example, two years later we had "el chinazo", the loss against China in the World Cup.

Respect for Angola.

judasmartel
07-29-2021, 05:18 PM
Angola eliminated us from our own Olympics (Barcelona 92), beating us fair and square. 20 points difference. It became a meme, "el angolazo" (difficult to translate, it means something like "hit with Angola" which even entered popular culture and was used to refer to any other unexpected big loss. For example, two years later we had "el chinazo", the loss against China in the World Cup.

Respect for Angola.

Just curious, what was Spanish basketball like before their Golden Generation? Was it really that bad? Do you see any future for Spain after everyone from the Golden Gen retires?

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 05:21 PM
There's a chance. I'm looking forward to that game, at least it will be a nice challenge.

Just put Garuba in dog house and let see how Gasol brothers defend pick. I have a feeling it might be interesting experience. It would be nice too, if Pau plays more than his brother.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 05:46 PM
Just curious, what was Spanish basketball like before their Golden Generation? Was it really that bad? Do you see any future for Spain after everyone from the Golden Gen retires?

Being a basketball fan in the 90s wasn't easy for a Spaniard. I didn't get to live most of that, my first clear memories of the NT are from the 99 Eurobasket (finalists). But I have many older friends who are basketball junkies and they won't stop telling me how easy I have had it.

The main problem is we had a lot of "star" players who all knew how to do one thing, and one thing only: Villacampa, Epi, Herreros... all of them were scorers who hogged the ball and didn't make teammates better. And also we lacked quality big men. All we had were bruisers, or finesse players who couldn't hold their own in the post. That meant we could win some games against mediocre competition, but any good team would wipe the floor with us. So more often than not quarterfinals were our ceiling. Basketball culture was bad, with coaches sucking up to the supposed "stars", and everyone else lacking the confidence to take responsibility when games were close. We even nationalized mediocre American players to chuck up shots for us. Players and fans got used to losing, which generated a negative attitude that made even more difficult to break the losing cycle. We even hosted an Eurobasket which was an absolute failure, with empty stands and almost no impact in the media; when the sport had been very popular in the 80s thanks to the success of the NT (Olympic and Eurobasket finalists).

Since 1991 Eurobasket bronze to 1999 silver we scored 0 medals in major tournaments. From 2001 to this day, we have accumulated 13. It's like day and night.

Forgot to answer about the future: we're seeing it now. The remaining players from the Golden Generation aren't the stars of the team anymore. We don't have a talent like Pau, but that's not the end of the world. Precious few NTs have one. For the next Olympic cycle we have quite a solid base: Rubio, Abrines, Juancho, Willy. There's a number of young players who will take over, some of them will have NBA experience like Garuba or Aldama. As long as we can keep the basketball culture we'll have some chances, even if individual talent is not that great.

Darrell Armstrong
07-29-2021, 05:48 PM
Just put Garuba in dog house and let see how Gasol brothers defend pick. I have a feeling it might be interesting experience. It would be nice too, if Pau plays more than his brother.

Marc can't guard a chair right now. Let's hope Scariolo has learned something since those 2017 semifinals.

Dtown
07-29-2021, 07:39 PM
At least with this format it's pretty hard if not impossible to tank for better matchups.

I'm not even sure it can be done period. All a team can control is if they're seeded (top 4) or unseeded (bottom 4) from there it's a draw to determine matchups.

France (barring insane upset by Iran) is top 4, The US should be top 4 with a win over Czech Republic given their crazy PD, winner of Slovenia/Spain and Australia if they win would finish it out. I honestly wouldn't want to play any of those teams, and it will absolutely suck for whoever draws the Spain/Slovenia loser.

Killer Bob
07-29-2021, 08:45 PM
I'm not even sure it can be done period. All a team can control is if they're seeded (top 4) or unseeded (bottom 4) from there it's a draw to determine matchups.

France (barring insane upset by Iran) is top 4, The US should be top 4 with a win over Czech Republic given their crazy PD, winner of Slovenia/Spain and Australia if they win would finish it out. I honestly wouldn't want to play any of those teams, and it will absolutely suck for whoever draws the Spain/Slovenia loser.

Theoreticaly Slovenia can be best second even if they don't win and USA wins. Not very likely but Slovenia is +53 and USA +47.

Nemanja95
07-29-2021, 08:51 PM
Angola eliminated us from our own Olympics (Barcelona 92), beating us fair and square. 20 points difference. It became a meme, "el angolazo" (difficult to translate, it means something like "hit with Angola" which even entered popular culture and was used to refer to any other unexpected big loss. For example, two years later we had "el chinazo", the loss against China in the World Cup.

Respect for Angola.

I m younger, despite I m well informed about times 80s, 90s which I did not watch, I didn`t know that. I remember Angola was better 2002 or 2006, they were best in Africa in some circumstances they could win some European nt like Russia or Italy, since 2010 they are very weak.

2006. Nigeria won us, Puerto Rico 2002, also Ukraine 2013 . . Greece stumbled 2012 in Olympic qualifications by Nigeria, Lithuania 2011 at home against North Macedonia, you lost against Russia at home two level weaker in final. We didn`t show up at home 2005. Usa lost against us 2002 at home. No one team or coach or player didn`t miss such disasters. This is spirit of sport,often tragic, sometimes magic, depends what is your side.

Stevy
07-30-2021, 05:07 AM
By the way, why is Mirotic and Ibaka not playing for Spain?

Shawshank
07-30-2021, 06:51 AM
i see Slovenia being nitghmarish matchup for Spain big team like 2017 was .Lets assume Slo wins.

Group 1: France,Australia,Slovenia,Usa

Group 2: Spain,Italy,Germany,Argentina

In such scenerio one thing would be clear: Nobody would want to get looser of Spa/Slo. Other 3 are lower quality teams,but in one game anything can happend.

Right now is looking like 5 team tournament and in one 1/4 2 semifinal level teams gonna meet.

My favourite possible matchups in 1/4 :

Slovenia-Italy small ball against small ball.Two 2 NT that eliminated basketball nations from olympics.

Australia-Spain this matchup become instant classics in 2016 and 2019 basketball fans need trilogy

France-Argentina I feel that would be best chance for Argentina from group 1 teams remembering 2019

Usa-Spain no comments needed :)

Darrell Armstrong
07-30-2021, 08:17 AM
By the way, why is Mirotic and Ibaka not playing for Spain?

As you know, Ibaka is not Spanish. He wanted to experience high-level international competition and give back to the country that adopted his family when they had to flee their homeland. He participated in three tournaments, amassed a couple medals and is probably satisfied. I don't think he'll ever play again for the NT.

Mirotic's case is slightly different. He is a product of Spain's youth system, having participated in U-20 tournaments before making the jump to the senior NT. But he has bowed out of all tournaments since Rio. I assume he's focused on his career and doesn't want to spend the summers playing. He may change his mind in the future, but eventually the Federation will get fed up with his refusals and stop knocking at his door.

Darrell Armstrong
07-30-2021, 08:20 AM
i see Slovenia being nitghmarish matchup for Spain big team like 2017 was .Lets assume Slo wins.

Group 1: France,Australia,Slovenia,Usa

Group 2: Spain,Italy,Germany,Argentina

In such scenerio one thing would be clear: Nobody would want to get looser of Spa/Slo. Other 3 are lower quality teams,but in one game anything can happend.

Right now is looking like 5 team tournament and in one 1/4 2 semifinal level teams gonna meet.

My favourite possible matchups in 1/4 :

Slovenia-Italy small ball against small ball.Two 2 NT that eliminated basketball nations from olympics.

Australia-Spain this matchup become instant classics in 2016 and 2019 basketball fans need trilogy

France-Argentina I feel that would be best chance for Argentina from group 1 teams remembering 2019

Usa-Spain no comments needed :)

Who doesn't want to see a Doncic vs. Durant? May not be the best QF matchup, but would be the most spectacular.

Levenspiel
07-30-2021, 09:22 AM
Mirotic's case is slightly different. He is a product of Spain's youth system, having participated in U-20 tournaments before making the jump to the senior NT. But he has bowed out of all tournaments since Rio. I assume he's focused on his career and doesn't want to spend the summers playing. He may change his mind in the future, but eventually the Federation will get fed up with his refusals and stop knocking at his door.
I wonder if he's interested in ever playing for Montenegro NT. FIBA sometimes makes exceptions and let them play for their native countries (such as Kuqo for Albania).

Darrell Armstrong
07-30-2021, 10:12 AM
I wonder if he's interested in ever playing for Montenegro NT. FIBA sometimes makes exceptions and let them play for their native countries (such as Kuqo for Albania).

They will need permission from Spanish Federation (I'm sure it would be granted, Mirotic is not going to play for Spain anyway), but certainly it's something Niko could pursue. But at this point I doubt that he's all that interested in international competition. I mean, he chose the easy path early in his career (no offence, but it's a lot easier to medal with Spain than with Montenegro), and now Montenegro has not even qualified for the next Eurobasket, so it's quite likely they will draw a blank in the next Olympic cycle (missing World Cup and Olympic Games too).

Katastroika
07-30-2021, 10:29 AM
I wonder if he's interested in ever playing for Montenegro NT. FIBA sometimes makes exceptions and let them play for their native countries (such as Kuqo for Albania).

2 years ago he said to a Serbian TV station from Chicago that he thinks about that. Reality is like our Spanish friend posted. He doesn't care for FIBA competitions. And that's fine I think.

Dtown
07-30-2021, 10:40 AM
Theoreticaly Slovenia can be best second even if they don't win and USA wins. Not very likely but Slovenia is +53 and USA +47.

Absolutely right, the US needs to win by at least 6 I think to guarantee a higher PD than a losing Slovenia.

Darrell Armstrong
07-30-2021, 12:07 PM
Absolutely right, the US needs to win by at least 6 I think to guarantee a higher PD than a losing Slovenia.

And it would be for nothing. According to the draw details published by FIBA, the top seeded 2nd place team cannot face a team finishing 3rd. So if USA and Slovenia both finish 2nd, they have a 50% chance of meeting in the QF.

Dtown
07-30-2021, 04:05 PM
And it would be for nothing. According to the draw details published by FIBA, the top seeded 2nd place team cannot face a team finishing 3rd. So if USA and Slovenia both finish 2nd, they have a 50% chance of meeting in the QF.

While that's undoubtedly bad news for the US and the loser of Spain/Slovenia it makes sense.

ChuckDiesel2
07-31-2021, 04:49 AM
Nigeria has really gotten a horrible whistle throughout the tournament.

Shawshank
07-31-2021, 06:44 AM
Canada,Nigeria 1 vs 1 nba basketball style with 7+ nba players on roster failed againts smartly run european style NT that played together.

Teams must have plan B not just 1 vs 1 for entire 40min.

JGX
07-31-2021, 01:42 PM
So the US made a bunch of threes, but the crazy stat is 22/23 on two-pointers after the first quarter.

Dtown
07-31-2021, 01:48 PM
Slow start but strong finish. As bad as US has looked at times if Durant plays like that the US becomes extremely hard to beat. Shooting a ridiculous percentage from 3 in the second half helps too.

Seeding shaping up.

France, Australia, Spain/Slovenia winner, and US as best 2nd.

Italy, Spain/Slovenia loser, Germany, Japan/Argentina winner.

usagre
07-31-2021, 02:31 PM
Unless I am not understanding the rules again these are the possibilities:

France v. Italy, Argentina, Germany or Spain/Slovenia loser

Australia v. Argentina or Spain/Slovenia loser

USA v. Italy or Spain/Slovenia loser

Spain/Slovenia winner v. Italy or Germany

Buzissa
07-31-2021, 02:46 PM
Unless I am not understanding the rules again these are the possibilities:

France v. Italy, Argentina, Germany or Spain/Slovenia loser

Australia v. Argentina or Spain/Slovenia loser

USA v. Italy or Spain/Slovenia loser

Spain/Slovenia winner v. Italy or Germany

Yep, that's what I came up with as well, but definitely easy to get lost :D

Shawshank
07-31-2021, 02:50 PM
That Spain vs Slovenia game is crusial shaping up playoofs picture:

The looser gets powerhourse USA/Fra/Aus in 1/4

The winner gets Italy or Germany in 1/4

its huge diffrence between winning and loosing that game.

juli_rc
07-31-2021, 03:00 PM
Unless I am not understanding the rules again these are the possibilities:

France v. Italy, Argentina, Germany or Spain/Slovenia loser

Australia v. Argentina or Spain/Slovenia loser

USA v. Italy or Spain/Slovenia loser

Spain/Slovenia winner v. Italy or Germany

http://basquetplus.com/sites/default/files/u4014/WhatsApp%20Image%202021-07-31%20at%2010.35.48.jpeg

Yes, you're rigth, but, replace Argentina with ARG-JPN winner :)

usagre
07-31-2021, 03:06 PM
http://basquetplus.com/sites/default/files/u4014/WhatsApp%20Image%202021-07-31%20at%2010.35.48.jpeg

Yes, you're rigth, but, replace Argentina with ARG-JPN winner :)

Stop it. You’re not losing that game. Although it would be ironic that you overachieved so dramatically two years ago by eliminating Serbia and France if you do a 180 and underachieve by getting eliminated by Japan. But I wouldn’t worry.

Dtown
07-31-2021, 03:13 PM
while I don't particularly like the three group format, the fact that we're at the last two group games and they both matter a lot, and all 4 teams have something to play for, is a good thing.

usagre
07-31-2021, 03:18 PM
while I don't particularly like the three group format, the fact that we're at the last two group games and they both matter a lot, and all 4 teams have something to play for, is a good thing.

Under coach K at this point heading into the quarters he would try to emphasize that the regular season (pool play) was over and it was playoff time (knockout rounds). The team would now show razor sharp focus after 5 pool games that seem to always include a few close calls due mainly to boredom. In contrast this team has been in playoff mode since its opening game embarrassment to Nigeria. And they still lost twice after that. Stuff like that and the fact that the team does not have another gear to turn to is scary.

Straight forward
07-31-2021, 03:28 PM
Key game of the tournament thus far tomorrow, IMO, Slovenia vs Spain. I treat either Spain or Slovenia the best team after unconvincing USA in the tournament. If Slovenia takes down red hot chili peppers to me it's second best team (at least). USA to me still somewhat meh. Playing equally with Czech Rep for a half still shows it's kinda fragile USA NT. Maybe they will turn to next level during the tournament, but ATM I sense the lack of some sort of fundamentals in USA team. Still No.1 contender, but shaky.

neo
07-31-2021, 03:57 PM
Key game of the tournament thus far tomorrow, IMO, Slovenia vs Spain. I treat either Spain or Slovenia the best team after unconvincing USA in the tournament. If Slovenia takes down red hot chili peppers to me it's second best team (at least). USA to me still somewhat meh. Playing equally with Czech Rep for a half still shows it's kinda fragile USA NT. Maybe they will turn to next level during the tournament, but ATM I sense the lack of some sort of fundamentals in USA team. Still No.1 contender, but shaky.


possible QF opponents are italy, spain, or slovenia.

i think they have major edge over italy.

they have d defenders to make luka ordinary.

spain has chemistry and experience over them but most of their players are past their prime and are very shaky when rubio is on d bench.

i say, vs italy = tough but 90% sure semis , vs slovenia = tougher but winnable, vs spain = if slovenia beat them for first place in their group, so can they.

Straight forward
07-31-2021, 04:57 PM
they have d defenders to make luka ordinary.


Leonard, George, Beverly and Rondo didn't make Luka ordinary. I don't see why this USA would make him so. It doesn't mean Slovenia will win it, but it may go either way, IMO, in FIBA game. Slovenia has much better chemistry. Off course, USA is much better defensive team so we'll see.

neo
07-31-2021, 05:05 PM
Leonard, George, Beverly and Rondo didn't make Luka ordinary. I don't see why this USA would make him so. It doesn't mean Slovenia will win it, but it may go either way, IMO, in FIBA game. Slovenia has much better chemistry. Off course, USA is much better defensive team so we'll see.

their strategy was for luka to get his binge and limit the others, making KP and richardson among others not just ordinary but forgotten players.

but im a mavs fan so hopefully usa vs slovenia in d finals instead.

Killer Bob
07-31-2021, 09:29 PM
their strategy was for luka to get his binge and limit the others, making KP and richardson among others not just ordinary but forgotten players.

but im a mavs fan so hopefully usa vs slovenia in d finals instead.

I don't believe you're Mavs fan because you're talking total bullshit. Richardson was not even starter in that series, total non factor, averaging 13 minutes. KP was that bad in D, that Mavs had to start Boban to not being totally destroyed in the paint, while Clippers were playing small ball. It was suicidal move of corse, Boban cannot defend picks, but KP was that bad that RC basically didn't have any other option. In offense KP was standing in the corner as decoy. Total non factor too. Porzingis is 2.21 and he couldn't do anything against 20+ cm shorter SFs? Give me a break. I have never seen something that pathetic in my life.

Clippers tried to do everything to stop Luka with no luck, but finally they have won because Luka couldn't play 48 minutes. In game 3, after winning first 2, they were up by 17 in first Q, RC has taken Luka out and Mavs fell apart.

Mavericks offensive rating with Luka was 118, without Luka 83. This are insane numbers. But we have seen very similar numbers in game against Argentina. Slovenia with Luka + 34, without him -16 in just 9 minutes.

Here you can see great analysis, how to stop Luka. In short, you won't stop him, you have to take ball out of his hands.

https://youtu.be/h-Ax4Fs6gf8

reamily
07-31-2021, 11:22 PM
theres a reason why Lowry is the target fa of dallas this season, they need someone who can shout at luka and involve others on the scheme..they known better if they somehow involved porzingis even if he suck on it at least they gave him the chance, it wasnt the case

Killer Bob
07-31-2021, 11:36 PM
theres a reason why Lowry is the target fa of dallas this season, they need someone who can shout at luka and involve others on the scheme..they known better if they somehow involved porzingis even if he suck on it at least they gave him the chance, it wasnt the case

KP was averaging 20 points with the best efficiency of his career in regular season, so Luka was obviously not the problem. The problem in this series was KP's total liability in D, which made RC to play Boban alongside him. That has obviously caused differences in offensive scheme too, where KP became Pf and paint was suddenly closed, because Boban was there. KP's inability to create anything for himself didn't help either.

They need to bring another guard because Richardson sucked and has already been traded. Kp is non factor in this trade and might be traded too, if Mavs find someone to take him and get something back.

All this speculations how Mavs are not happy with Luka are a joke, they will do anything to please him. Kidd, KP, whoever will be a history, if Luka wants it.

Mavs getting Lowry is a long shot anyway, much more likely scenario is Lowry coming in Miami. In this case Miami will renounce Dragic, who might sign with Mavs.

neo
08-01-2021, 04:10 AM
I don't believe you're Mavs fan because you're talking total bullshit. Richardson was not even starter in that series, total non factor, averaging 13 minutes. KP was that bad in D, that Mavs had to start Boban to not being totally destroyed in the paint, while Clippers were playing small ball. It was suicidal move of corse, Boban cannot defend picks, but KP was that bad that RC basically didn't have any other option. In offense KP was standing in the corner as decoy. Total non factor too. Porzingis is 2.21 and he couldn't do anything against 20+ cm shorter SFs? Give me a break. I have never seen something that pathetic in my life.

Clippers tried to do everything to stop Luka with no luck, but finally they have won because Luka couldn't play 48 minutes. In game 3, after winning first 2, they were up by 17 in first Q, RC has taken Luka out and Mavs fell apart.

Mavericks offensive rating with Luka was 118, without Luka 83. This are insane numbers. But we have seen very similar numbers in game against Argentina. Slovenia with Luka + 34, without him -16 in just 9 minutes.

Here you can see great analysis, how to stop Luka. In short, you won't stop him, you have to take ball out of his hands.

https://youtu.be/h-Ax4Fs6gf8

im a mavs fan since d days of nash and dirk so you are d one talking BS to even question me on that.

i do not need to watch a youtube video for any luka analysis as i watch 90% of mavs games in regular season, part of two social media forums on d mavs, and regularly listens and reads mavs stuff on three mavs sites.

taking d ball out of luka's hands was not for d clippers to do for an entire series because mavs were ready for that. go get some statistics and see the % of possessions that they double-teamed luka in d entire 7 games.

check also that leonard was not d main defender on luka even if they could do so. they focused on leonard defending KP and later on hardaway.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 04:29 AM
im a mavs fan since d days of nash and dirk so you are d one talking BS to even question me on that.

i do not need to watch a youtube video for any luka analysis as i watch 90% of mavs games in regular season and part of two social media forums on d mavs.

taking d ball out of luka's hands was not for d clippers to do for an entire series because mavs were ready for that. go get some statistics and see the % of possessions that they double-teamed luka in d entire 7 games.

check also that leonard was not d main defender on luka even if they could do so. they focused on leonard defending KP and later on hardaway.

Suddenly you're not mentioning Richardson anymore? ;)

Kawhi was main defender on KP in first 2 games and we know how it ended for the Clippers. After that things change. It's obvious that Kawhi couldn't guard Luka the whole series, because he was too important for Clippers in offense. Lue was mixing D on Luka the whole time. After going down 0:2 it was Kawhi, who was prime defender on Luka. With all screms that teams play it's impossible for 1 player to guard anyone exclusively anymore. Teams are attacking weak spots in D. That's why Zubac didn't play much after he was destroyed by Luka in first games. Clippers didn't need to do much about KP later in the series anymore, because with addition of Boban, KP became 2.21 Sf hidden in the corner, waiting to get few shots per match. Mavs would have been ecstatic, if Kawhi was waiting with him. If KP had any kind of post moves, Clippers couldn't defend him the way they did with smaller players. Unfortunately KP after injury is not unicorn anymore, but just Sf, who cannot create anything, hidden in a big body.

But again, the main problem with KP was not his offensive play, but total inability to be rim protector. Paint was totally open because of his lack of movement. RC tried to solve that with starting Boban alongside him, but doing that Mavs were totally open on perimeter, which was painfully obvious in game 7. Mavs didn't lose the series because of offense, but because of D.

neo
08-01-2021, 04:54 AM
Suddenly you're not mentioning Richardson anymore? ;)

Kawhi was main defender on KP in first 2 games and we know how it ended for the Clippers. After that things change. It's obvious that Kawhi couldn't guard Luka the whole series, because he was too important for Clippers in offense. Lue was mixing D on Luka the whole time. After going down 0:2 it was Kawhi, who was prime defender on Luka. With all screms that teams play it's impossible for 1 player to guard anyone exclusively anymore. Teams are attacking weak spots in D. That's why Zubac didn't play much after he was destroyed by Luka in first games. Clippers didn't need to do much about KP later in the series anymore, because with addition of Boban, KP became 2.21 Sf hidden in the corner, waiting to get few shots per match. Mavs would have been ecstatic, if Kawhi was waiting with him.

But again, the main problem with KP was not his offensive play, but total inability to be rim protector. Paint was totally open because his lack of movement.

richardson was not given minutes becos he could not space d floor and they need hardaway's shooting over his defense (which was actually negative as mavs' defense were better with him off d floor) and they cannot afford to play both tim and josh becos that would mean less minutes for DFS and even maxi.

khawi was not d main defender on KP in d first 2 games but shifted to hardaway starting game 3.

kp's offense was problematic, he was not able to take advantage of smaller defenders. but he also had less touches, especially d last 5 games because he was made a corner spot-up shooter becos analytics suggested he's most efficient in that role.

indeed, KP's defense was also a problem but he did improve a bit in d last 2 or 3 games.

but other than KP's regression, mavs lose series becos of (a) tactical errors from d head coach, especially in terms of managing luka's minutes, (b) lack of secondary creator, and (c) lack of elite wing defender. The last 2 were supposed to be something that richardson will address but it was a failure. hence, he was traded d moment he opted in his contract.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 05:06 AM
richardson was not given minutes becos he could not space d floor and they need hardaway's shooting over his defense (which was actually negative as mavs' defense were better with him off d floor) and they cannot afford to play both tim and josh becos that would mean less minutes for DFS and even maxi.

khawi was not d main defender on KP in d first 2 games but shifted to hardaway starting game 3.

kp's offense was problematic, he was not able to take advantage of smaller defenders. but he also had less touches, especially d last 5 games because he was made a corner spot-up shooter becos analytics suggested he's most efficient in that role.

indeed, KP's defense was also a problem but he did improve a bit in d last 2 or 3 games.

but other than KP's regression, mavs lose series becos of (a) tactical errors from d head coach, especially in terms of managing luka's minutes, (b) lack of secondary creator, and (c) lack of elite wing defender. The last 2 were supposed to be something that richardson will address but it was a failure. hence, he was traded d moment he opted in his contract.

I can mostly agree with this. But didn't you start this conversation how Clippers' D destroyed Richardson and KP? Richardson, who didn't even start and was total non factor with 13 minutes per game and KP, who was standing in the corner half of the series?

Mavs roster is disastrous, because management failed totally in last 2 years, they had numerous failures, cherry on the cake Seth/Josh trade.

neo
08-01-2021, 05:30 AM
I can mostly agree with this. But didn't you start this conversation how Clippers' D destroyed Richardson and KP? Richardson, who didn't even start and was total non factor with 13 minutes per game and KP, who was standing in the corner half of the series?

Mavs roster is disastrous, because management failed totally in last 2 years, they had numerous failures, cherry on the cake Seth/Josh trade.

i did not say they were destroyed. what i was trying to say was that clippers' defense was designed to limit non-luka players. that is why luka had one or two 40-point games where they still lose. d very defense they played led to KP playing less minutes and getting less touches and limited plays designed for him (and generally ineffective) and JR getting less minutes relative to regular season minutes and decreasing as the series went on culminating to lowest minutes in game 7 (generally a non-factor except for some FTs). and the two are just examples. DFS, maxi, and jalen brunson were all less effective or efficient in offense in d series. clippers had too many long and athletic switchable defenders and their game plan to cover luka one-on-one most of d time means less opportunities for d role/support players to have easier path to getting points.

mavs failed in general after 2011. and carlise stayed too long for comfort. d seth/josh trade was theoretically good so that's ok. at least they tried to do something different, they just need to move on from that failure (and they did).

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 05:54 AM
i did not say they were destroyed. what i was trying to say was that clippers' defense was designed to limit non-luka players. that is why luka had one or two 40-point games where they still lose. d very defense they played led to KP playing less minutes and getting less touches and limited plays designed for him (and generally ineffective) and JR getting less minutes relative to regular season minutes and decreasing as the series went on culminating to lowest minutes in game 7 (generally a non-factor except for some FTs). and the two are just examples. DFS, maxi, and jalen brunson were all less effective or efficient in offense in d series. clippers had too many long and athletic switchable defenders and their game plan to cover luka one-on-one most of d time means less opportunities for d role/support players to have easier path to getting points.

mavs failed in general after 2011. and carlise stayed too long for comfort. d seth/josh trade was theoretically good so that's ok. at least they tried to do something different, they just need to move on from that failure (and they did).

Trade Seth/Richardson could have been good only, if they have gotten Miami's Josh, he was similarly bad in Philly. Giving away great shooter, when you have Luka, who basically has to be surrounded with shooters, is very dangerous. It's true that Mavs need D, but not with that prize.

Mavs players weren't ineffective because Clippers D focused on them, but because they're simply not good enough against serious and good D in playoffs. Jalen is too small for Clippers defenders, DFS and Kleber are incredibly limited players, who couldn't never started in conteders. Then you have Boban, who normally can play just against special matchups, but he was suddenly starting and playing a lot of minutes. Powell, who has gotten incredibly generous contract for his role in the team, WCS...Luka on the other hand likes to play big matches and was more or less unstoppable, no matter what Clippers did. Something is averaging 35.7 points, but doing that efficiently and knowing that more than 90% of his points were unassisted is just incredible.

About KP. He's 2.21. How 20 cm shorter players can make him ineffective? Because he's in reality very limited player too. No post move, cannot create for himself, no handle...His only weapon is shooting over defenders, but he's not Dirk, so his % is too low for that. His main appeal was being rim protector, who can stretch the floor. Losing his mobility to be rim protector makes him massively overpaid player.

neo
08-01-2021, 06:02 AM
Trade Seth/Richardson could have been good only, if they have gotten Miami's Josh, he was similarly bad in Philly. Giving away great shooter, when you have Luka, who basically has to be surrounded with shooters, is very dangerous. It's true that Mavs need D, but not with that prize.

Mavs players weren't ineffective because Clippers D focused on them, but because they're simply not good enough against serious and good D in playoffs. Jalen is too small for Clippers defenders, DFS and Kleber are incredibly limited players, who couldn't never started in conteders. Then you have Boban, who normally can play just against special matchups, but he was suddenly starting and playing a lot of minutes. Powell, who has gotten incredibly generous contract for his role in the team, WCS...Luka on the other hand likes to play big matches and was more or less unstoppable, no matter what Clippers did. Something is averaging 35.7 points, but doing that efficiently and knowing that more than 90% of his points were unassisted is just incredible.


perhaps, on d likes of DFS, JB and maxi. but certainly not with THJ and KP.

well, it is rumored that a namesake of yours was d real brain behind boban's starting.

in d end, luka cannot do it alone, it was like lebron in his first stint with d cavs.

but luka is so elite, he does not need a big 2 or big 3. he just need better support around him. and perhaps, a better system.

neo
08-01-2021, 06:07 AM
so its argentina vs australia or france.

anyone here thinks that scola and company can recreate d magic of 2019 WC and upset a no.1 team in the QF?

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 06:10 AM
Argentina put to sleep delusions how Japan is better. Funny enough they might get worse opponent than one of Spain/Slovenia.

neo
08-01-2021, 06:12 AM
Argentina put to sleep delusions how Japan is better. Funny enough, they might get worse opponent than one of Spain/Slovenia.

it is certain that they will not meet spain or slovenia because groupmates in preliminary round will not play against each other in QF.

so it's france or australia.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 06:16 AM
perhaps, on d likes of DFS, JB and maxi. but certainly not with THJ and KP.

well, it is rumored that a namesake of yours was d real brain behind boban's starting.

in d end, luka cannot do it alone, it was like lebron in his first stint with d cavs.

but luka is so elite, he does not need a big 2 or big 3. he just need better support around him. and perhaps, a better system.

In this series he could. 2:0 and 17 points up RC did the biggest blunder in this series.

If KP was playing like in last year's bubble, Mavs would have won 4:0.

If KP was just able to provide decent rim protection, Mavs would have won also.

If Bob the gambler didn't risk everything with Boban, they might have won also.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 06:18 AM
it is certain that they will not meet spain or slovenia because groupmates in preliminary round will not play against each other in QF.

so it's france or australia.

I know, but Spain/Slovenia have 50% to get USA, who are still far the worst opponent for anyone.

neo
08-01-2021, 06:22 AM
I know, but Spain/Slovenia have 50% to get USA, who are still far the worst opponent for anyone.

yes, so i am hoping that luka and slovenia beat spain later.

if luka outplays rubio, they'll win as long as their frontcourt mixes it well vs spain's bigs.

neo
08-01-2021, 06:24 AM
In this series he could. 2:0 and 17 points up RC did the biggest blunder in this series.

If KP was playing like in last year's bubble, Mavs would have won 4:0.

If KP was just able to provide decent rim protection, Mavs would have won also.

If Bob the gambler didn't risk everything with Boban, they might have won also.

yeah, RC fucxxd up in that first quarter of game 3. clippers would still have won games, but no way they could rise from 0-3.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 06:33 AM
yes, so i am hoping that luka and slovenia beat spain later.

if luka outplays rubio, they'll win as long as their frontcourt mixes it well vs spain's bigs.

It's really simple in this game. Spain has to stop Luka no matter what and they know that. Spain bigs are not better than Lithuania bigs, they won't be a factor, if Luka has a good day. If not, it's more or less game over for Slovenia. It won't be the end of the world, but win in this match brings at least on paper much easier opponent.

neo
08-01-2021, 06:40 AM
It's really simple in this game. Spain has to stop Luka no matter what and they know that. Spain bigs are not better than Lithuania bigs, they won't be a factor, if Luka has a good day. If not, it's more or less game over for Slovenia. It won't be the end of the world, but win in this match brings at least on paper much easier opponent.

it's not that spain's bigs are better (but more experienced though) it's that they have more depth in d frontcourt (although both gasols are way past their prime).

if toby stays out of foul trouble, spain's depth at d 5 posiiton will not matter.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 06:43 AM
it's not that spain's bigs are better. it's that they have more depth in d frontcourt (although both gasols are way past their prime).

if toby stays out of foul trouble, spain's depth at d 5 posiiton will not matter.

The only big I'm afraid of is Garuba, because he's the only one, who can defend Luka, when he will be switched to. Gasol brothers are perfect for Slovenia to attack them. I expect Garuba playing much more today than in previous games.

It will be D against O.

Straight forward
08-01-2021, 08:40 AM
That third foul for Luka was fishy.

Katastroika
08-01-2021, 08:41 AM
I am impressed by Spaniards' rotations. Looks so fluid and well oiled.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 08:42 AM
Abrines has been moving. Spain is 80:20 now.

Stevy
08-01-2021, 08:43 AM
Spain vs Slovenia
https://www.olympicstreams.me/men-s-basketball-spain-vs-slovenia-live-stream/1/

neo
08-01-2021, 08:43 AM
That third foul for Luka was fishy.

would have been overturned if there was a coaching challenge

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 08:45 AM
Referees are a joke like always in Fiba. Now they're compensating and whistling everything against Spain.

madmax
08-01-2021, 08:52 AM
FIBA refs are a joke as usual, but Spain are an incredibly smart team as well - seeing how every single contact is whistled, they kept on fishing for offensive fouls on Doncic and eventually took him out of the rest game lmao

Straight forward
08-01-2021, 09:08 AM
That's surely by far best defence Doncic faced this summer. Lithuania's defence (the while plan as well) was a walk in the park for them compared to this.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 09:12 AM
Those 3 fouls has basically taken Luka's drives away.

Serbian_Layup
08-01-2021, 09:15 AM
That last possession of Slovenia summarizes Spain's defensive plan on Doncic. Claver is ready and always in stance close to Doncic and as soon as Doncic thinks about making a move there is a Spanish guard (I think it was Lull in the possession) immediately blitzing Doncic near the three point line making him a little bit uncomfortable and forcing him to some tough passing angles. Of course, it's a privilege for a coach to have such a defensive specialist as Claver who is one of the most switchable players making it hard for guards with his mobility and size. I feel like Spain didn't really take advantage of Doncic's foul trouble (also result of great rotations) and good defense on him. It's funny how Rubio completely changes his scoring mentality from NBA to FIBA ball. He has been rather bad in his last years in the NBA, still shooting below average, but he turned himself into scoring machine in the last couple of FIBA competitions shooting with confidence and hitting lot if outside shots (though in this game he has bricked lots of shots so far).

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 09:28 AM
I believe Slovenia should reconsider, if there's a point of losing energy in this game.

Straight forward
08-01-2021, 09:32 AM
I believe Slovenia should reconsider, if there's a point of losing energy in this game.

LOL. You're must be joking.

Serbian_Layup
08-01-2021, 09:38 AM
It looks like the idea of Slovenia to adjust to those double teams on Doncic is to call for a high p&r really quick in the halfcourt and Spain is now having trouble to adjust, lots of open shots for Slovenia.

madmax
08-01-2021, 09:40 AM
and despite all of Spain's defensive masterclass, it's still a 50-50 game lol:D

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 10:12 AM
Yes!!!!!

neo
08-01-2021, 10:13 AM
great comeback win by slovenia!

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 10:13 AM
Now please USA:Spain draw.

neo
08-01-2021, 10:14 AM
Now please USA:Spain draw.

i agree lol.

Straight forward
08-01-2021, 10:15 AM
Yes!!!!!

There was a point of losing energy after all :p

Fun game. Slovenia is very very good offensive team, Today they didn't even play their best. But also the feeling Spain kinda blew it. It was more like Spain controlling the game for most of the time.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 10:15 AM
Cancar MVP of this game.

Luka still undefeated with Slovenia. 16:0.

Rubio still bricking, when matters the most.

neo
08-01-2021, 10:16 AM
and despite all of Spain's defensive masterclass, it's still a 50-50 game lol:D

luka one assist shy of a triple double.

Serbian_Layup
08-01-2021, 10:18 AM
Scariolo making same mistakes he did in 2017 out of respect to Gasol who gave up tons of rebounds on the glass to Dimec and Tobey. Garuba deserves more playing time and would be much more impactful on the glass.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 10:19 AM
There was a point of losing energy after all :p

Fun game. Slovenia is very very good offensive team, Today they didn't even play their best. But also the feeling Spain kinda blew it. It was more like Spain controlling the game for most of the time.

Sure, everything good now. Games are now every 2 days. If they had lost...

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 10:19 AM
Scariolo making same mistakes he did in 2017 out of respect to Gasol who gave up tons of rebounds on the glass to Dimec and Tobey. Garuba deserves more playing time and would be much more impactful on the glass.

Yes, Garuba should have play a lot more.

Adon
08-01-2021, 10:37 AM
@Killer Bob
Congrats man! Great game, I really enjoyed it. Rooting for Slovenia of course.

Italian Pride
08-01-2021, 10:37 AM
What time is the draw?

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 10:38 AM
@Killer Bob
Congrats man! Great game, I really enjoyed it. Rooting for Slovenia of course.

Thanks. :D

Straight forward
08-01-2021, 10:42 AM
Sure, everything good now. Games are now every 2 days. If they had lost...

The price of the game was huge. No biggie though, emotions take over during such games, I'll treat it as rookie mistake :) Now Slovenia has all chances to be in semis. Spain is far from that, specially if they will face USA, 90% the end of the road...

Saving energy lol

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 10:48 AM
The price of the game was huge. No biggie though, emotions take over during such games, I'll treat it as rookie mistake :)

My emotions are not important. ;) The problem would had been, how to lift Slovenian players in 2 days, if they had lost this emotionally and physically difficult match and had to play against USA for example. Prle was talking in national TV totally destroyed. Now it will be easier, but in those QFs anything can happen of course. Position is good, but now it starts for real. Nobody has done anything yet.

madmax
08-01-2021, 10:51 AM
Luka magic is working even when he's having a below average game...at this point I'm getting convinced they can't actually be beaten lol

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 10:55 AM
Luka magic is working even when he's having a below average game...at this point I'm getting convinced they can't actually be beaten lol

Spain did the only possible thing and double teamed and trap Luka the whole game. But in my mind Luka proved to be very mature and sacrificed his game for a team. He took only 7 shots, but could easily have triple double, if his teammates made some open shots. So I wouldn't say he had below average game. Not great, but in those circumstances good enough.

On the other side we had Ricky with 23 shots. Wtf?

neo
08-01-2021, 10:57 AM
Luka magic is working even when he's having a below average game...at this point I'm getting convinced they can't actually be beaten lol

scoring yes. but 14 rebs and 9 assists with some good defense? those are not below average (FTs should improve though).

i am also impressed that he behaved enough in defense and in dealing with d refs to avoid his 4th and 5th fouls.

madmax
08-01-2021, 11:06 AM
Spain did the only possible thing and double teamed and trap Luka the whole game. But in my mind Luka proved to be very mature and sacrificed his game for a team. He took only 7 shots, but could easily have triple double, if his teammates made some open shots. So I wouldn't say he had below average game. Not great, but in those circumstances good enough.

On the other side we had Ricky with 23 shots. Wtf?

Spain would have won this game if they had adequate bigs who wouldn't have let Mike freaking Tobey to rape them on the boards...having a scoring leader who could shoot higher than 30 % from the field would also have helped (yes, I'm looking at you Bricky Scrubio lol)

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 11:08 AM
On the other hand Spain proved to have great D. 95 points is the lowest score in all 7 matches Slovenia has played. ;)

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 11:11 AM
Spain would have won this game if they had adequate bigs who wouldn't have let Mike freaking Tobey to rape them on the boards...having a scoring leader who could shoot higher than 30 % from the field would also have helped (yes, I'm looking at you Bricky Scrubio lol)

In their D, it's not the easiest to box out with D they played on Luka and trying to rotate on shooters.

If Slovenia had better shooting night the game might be over sooner. It goes both ways, Span did some mistakes and Slovenia was bricking open shots whole night. 31% for mostly totally open 3s is disastrous for them.

I agree on Ricky. 23 shots is way too much. The only 3 he made was very lucky, off the table.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 11:33 AM
Now please USA:Spain draw.

Slovenia : Germany

USA : Spain :cool:

France : Italy

Australia : Argentina

Shawshank
08-01-2021, 11:39 AM
basketball worlds is happy to see 1/4 Usa vs Spain :)

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 12:10 PM
Luka should win next 3 games and then retire as undefeated in NT. :D

Straight forward
08-01-2021, 12:11 PM
My emotions are not important. ;) The problem would had been, how to lift Slovenian players in 2 days, if they had lost this emotionally and physically difficult match and had to play against USA for example. Prle was talking in national TV totally destroyed. Now it will be easier, but in those QFs anything can happen of course. Position is good, but now it starts for real. Nobody has done anything yet.

Yeah, tanking the game just to meat USA in 4finals is a great idea, bruh. I think someone just lost his mind and tries to justify crazy thought.

Nemanja95
08-01-2021, 12:23 PM
So, how looks like, Usa, France and Slovenia will take medals. Calculation of Spain years by years is reversed on this tournament. Little difference in quality is between France, Slovenia and Spain, maybe even between Usa and those teams, same case like between Italy, Germany and Czech Republic. System of competition like this implies some teams maybe unjustified will be in more difficult position .

Shawshank
08-01-2021, 12:27 PM
So, how looks like, Usa, France and Slovenia will take medals. Calculation of Spain years by years is reversed on this tournament.

Australia as always 4th? :)

Dtown
08-01-2021, 12:41 PM
ugh Spain in the first round. On the bright side they're a familiar opponent, and the US can usually get up for Spain so no real chance of being flat. Still Spain. The start time is brutal too for people on the East coast. Guess I'm either staying up super late or getting up super early.

neo
08-01-2021, 12:46 PM
basketball worlds is happy to see 1/4 Usa vs Spain :)

great for neutral fans

Shawshank
08-01-2021, 01:02 PM
Italy won eurovision 2021
Italy won fifa euro cup 2021
Italy won 100m final race in Olympic 2021
Italy beat Serbia in basketball in Belgrad

Italy gonna beat France in 1/4 it is destiny of 2021 no other way around :)

usagre
08-01-2021, 02:04 PM
Let’s not sugarcoat this. If the US loses to Spain it would be an enormous upset. The US is an 11.5 point favorite and 8-1 favorite on the money line and rightfully so. They have owned Spain historically in this spot. 2004, 2008, 2012 and 2016.
Different players and even coaches but the same result. This time should not be any different. Seven of the top nine Spain minute leaders are 30+ years old and 4 of them are 35+.
As a matter of fact all 4 previous knockout games followed a similar script. Competitive games but in crunch time last 5 minutes or so Spain has never led, tied or even trailed by a single possession. They have trailed by double digits in each game as well at some point during crunch time. A similar result should be expected and a US elimination should be considered a major upset.

Kings
08-01-2021, 02:08 PM
http://www.fiba.basketball/images.fiba.com/Graphic/A/7/9/9/yliQFyEZA0mRbyBpd-PWSg.jpg

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 02:10 PM
I have never seen game being played at 10 am. Wtf?

usagre
08-01-2021, 02:18 PM
I have never seen game being played at 10 am. Wtf?

Historically the first quarterfinal was played around 1pm but I looked it up and in the last Olympics it was 11am and in 1996 Lithuania-Greece was 10am.

Nemanja95
08-01-2021, 02:19 PM
Australia as always 4th? :)

Actually, I would say Argentina has realistic chances for win against Australia who is overrated, I dont know based on what? Australia is correct team with some good players and with some obvious lacks, this is team of second level on tournament as well as Argentina, they won 3 games in group.

But, in the games of high importance they have many problems due their style of basketball,pretty free and leisure. This generation of Australia won one important game against good opponent, that was against Lithunia 2016 and that`s all. I think Argentina has better sniff to find way to win in dramatic,tough game than Australia would it be.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 02:25 PM
Historically the first quarterfinal was played around 1pm but I looked it up and in the last Olympics it was 11am and in 1996 Lithuania-Greece was 10am.

Thanks. Really strange time for Slovenia: Germany match.

Katastroika
08-01-2021, 02:39 PM
Congrats to my boy Bob. Ziga "Olajuwon" Dimec!!!

usagre
08-01-2021, 02:41 PM
All four quarterfinal favorites are solid in the 7.5-13.5 point favorite range. And all four will face heavy pressure to win and an elimination would be disastrous. Usa obviously. France has to finally make a run and after always coming up short. Same thing with Australia if not this cycle then when ? And even Slovenia can’t lose to Germany and is actually the largest favorite of the four and understandably so since they are undefeated with Luka and Germany is the weakest of the 8.

Joško Poljak Fan
08-01-2021, 02:54 PM
Whenever Dimec's gravitational field doesn't result in 5 fouls in 3 minutes, he can be usefull!

Great game! Box +1 zone was incredible against Luka and if Slovenia was indeed only Luka, it would work. I was a bit surprised Spain insisted on it for the whole game. I am impressed by our team winning this game even on a bit of an off shooting day.

usagre
08-01-2021, 02:57 PM
Whenever Dimec's gravitational field doesn't result in 5 fouls in 3 minutes, he can be usefull!

Great game! Box +1 zone was incredible against Luka and if Slovenia was indeed only Luka, it would work. I was a bit surprised Spain insisted on it for the whole game..

Yeah I agree. The strategy should be used as a change up and not the entire game. It gave the Slovenian “others” confidence early on and that set a bad precedent for the rest of the game.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 02:58 PM
Congrats to my boy Bob. Ziga "Olajuwon" Dimec!!!

Thanks. Yes, it might looked strange but Dimec was crucial in 1 point, rebounding, scoring and even assisting. :cool:

usagre
08-01-2021, 02:59 PM
Is it me or are these games flying by even faster than usual? It used to be about 1:50-2 hours in real time but I feel like it’s more like 1:40 now. You blink and these games are over.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 03:00 PM
Whenever Dimec's gravitational field doesn't result in 5 fouls in 3 minutes, he can be usefull!

Great game! Box +1 zone was incredible against Luka and if Slovenia was indeed only Luka, it would work. I was a bit surprised Spain insisted on it for the whole game. I am impressed by our team winning this game even on a bit of an off shooting day.

Luka after the game said, "have you ever seen someone playing zone for 40 minutes? "

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 03:10 PM
All four quarterfinal favorites are solid in the 7.5-13.5 point favorite range. And all four will face heavy pressure to win and an elimination would be disastrous. Usa obviously. France has to finally make a run and after always coming up short. Same thing with Australia if not this cycle then when ? And even Slovenia can’t lose to Germany and is actually the largest favorite of the four and understandably so since they are undefeated with Luka and Germany is the weakest of the 8.

Before this year, I would have never believed that Slovenia can be 13.5 points favourite in the Qs of Olympics.

usagre
08-01-2021, 03:13 PM
I remember Scariolo attempting to box and one Durant in the fourth quarter of the Gold medal game in 2012. But there was a play where Lebron had the ball on the right wing and two Spanish defenders stayed with Durant opening up a wide open lane for Lebron to drive and dunk and that was the end of that. Incidentally the only time I can ever remember the strategy being used for an entire game was the 1985 NCAA final 4 when John Thompson’s Georgetown did it to St. John’s Chris Mullin and it did work by limiting his shots and basically shutting him down. But Mullin was a scorer not a facilitator like Luka so not really appropriate.

usagre
08-01-2021, 03:14 PM
Before this year, I would have never believed that Slovenia can be 13.5 points favourite in the Qs of Olympics.

No doubt. But here you are and that’s all that matters. Would love to have seen Goran Dragic playing off the ball and at the point when Luka got rest. Your team would have been a beast.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 03:21 PM
No doubt. But here you are and that’s all that matters. Would love to have seen Goran Dragic playing off the ball and at the point when Luka got rest. Your team would have been a beast.

Dragic was tempted to play in the end, but said it would have been unfair to take place from someone, who played in qualifications. Slovenia would have been much better team with Dragic of course.

Bookies have USA as clear favourites. Slovenia is second with 6.00.

usagre
08-01-2021, 03:31 PM
Dragic was tempted to play in the end, but said it would have been unfair to take place from someone, who played in qualifications..

Yeah I can see that. Parachuting onto the team after that great performance in Lithuania where such great chemistry and cohesion was formed could arguably seem unfair and even hurt the team. But I am thinking more pre qualification tournament. Miami was eliminated at the end of May so that’s what I was mainly referring to.

Killer Bob
08-01-2021, 03:38 PM
Yeah I can see that. Parachuting onto the team after that great performance in Lithuania where such great chemistry and cohesion was formed could arguably seem unfair and even hurt the team. But I am thinking more pre qualification tournament. Miami was eliminated at the end of May so that’s what I was mainly referring to.

He said few years ago that he won't played anymore. Luka and others tried to persuade him, but it didn't happen. I believe he did a mistake, because Olympics would have been great end for his career.

JGX
08-01-2021, 06:18 PM
Maybe next time someone will try a triangle and two with both defenders on Doncic, like some clown tried on Steph Curry in college:



But Patsos made no apologies for using a triangle-and-two defense on one player.

“Anybody else ever hold him scoreless?” Patsos said. “I’m a history major. They’re going to remember that we held him scoreless, or we lost by 30?”


https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/27/sports/ncaabasketball/27davidson.html

juli_rc
08-01-2021, 07:42 PM
I remember Scariolo attempting to box and one Durant in the fourth quarter of the Gold medal game in 2012. But there was a play where Lebron had the ball on the right wing and two Spanish defenders stayed with Durant opening up a wide open lane for Lebron to drive and dunk and that was the end of that. Incidentally the only time I can ever remember the strategy being used for an entire game was the 1985 NCAA final 4 when John Thompson’s Georgetown did it to St. John’s Chris Mullin and it did work by limiting his shots and basically shutting him down. But Mullin was a scorer not a facilitator like Luka so not really appropriate.

Argentina use box and one (against "La Bomba" Navarro) on the game for the 5° spot against Spain in World Cup 2010.
Why I remember that? It was the only official victory against Spain in 20 years!

Nemanja95
08-01-2021, 07:53 PM
Argentina use box and one (against "La Bomba" Navarro) on the game for the 5° spot against Spain in World Cup 2010.
Why I remember that? It was the only official victory against Spain in 20 years!

Unforgettable games for 5th place. Does anybody know why these games play ?

Katastroika
08-01-2021, 08:00 PM
Argentina use box and one (against "La Bomba" Navarro) on the game for the 5° spot against Spain in World Cup 2010.
Why I remember that? It was the only official victory against Spain in 20 years!

Scariolo destroyed Serbia with this combo zone in 2019. He saw it in Toronto as assistant when they played it effectively against Curry. Conclusion? History repeats itself lol

Btw I really think Slovenia was prepared for that because of Serbia's struggle 2019 to beat that zone when Bogdanović was target of 4+1 zone.

Jazz
08-01-2021, 10:28 PM
Maybe next time someone will try a triangle and two with both defenders on Doncic, like some clown tried on Steph Curry in college:



https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/27/sports/ncaabasketball/27davidson.html

What a legend! Secured his place in the history books. :D

juli_rc
08-01-2021, 11:41 PM
Unforgettable games for 5th place. Does anybody know why these games play ?

Back then? I don't known.
Right now, in the WC define spots for the olympics and pre olympic tournament.

juli_rc
08-02-2021, 01:14 AM
https://twitter.com/javierlanza/status/1421700990638645250

Coach Hernandez, asking "Is this an all star game?" Complaining of ARG bad defence against Japan.

CoachZ
08-02-2021, 03:43 AM
Radonjic employed the Box-and-One with Red Star for several years in Euroleague with fantastic results defensively. The team with the smallest budgets was consistently Top 3 in defense with excellent results in eliminating ball-dominant, PnR heavy guards that rule the league. It is a limited sistem though, because the corner threes are 90% of the time open, regardless of how well you read the game and if for any reason an opponent has a center that can play in the post and pass out of it, its raining threes everywhere. It all depends on who are you playing. I think it was a bad idea to try it on Luka since Slovenia has shooting everywhere.

Realistically, this tournament is still for USA to lose. I put the best chance of beating USA on France, giving them a 25% chance due to great length and defensive athleticism. If they can slow down the game, they have the best chance. I put Slovenia and Spain around 10%.