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Mindozas
03-11-2021, 04:25 PM
USA Basketball Announces 57 Finalists for U.S. Olympic Menís Team (https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2021/03/m-oly-finalists.aspx)


16 Olympians and 24 World Cup Team Members Among Finalists

Adding 15 players to 42 previously selected USA Basketball Menís National Team finalists, 57 athletes today were announced by USA Basketball as finalists for the U.S. Olympic Menís Basketball Team. The player selections were approved by the USA Basketball Board of Directors. The official 12-member U.S. Olympic Menís Basketball Team roster will be announced later this year.

Added to the 2021 USA National Team roster, from which the U.S. Olympic Menís Basketball Team will be selected, were - Jarrett Allen (Cleveland Cavaliers); Eric Gordon (Houston Rockets); Jerami Grant (Detroit Pistons); Blake Griffin (Brooklyn Nets); Jrue Holiday (Milwaukee Bucks); DeAndre Jordan (Brooklyn Nets); Zach LaVine (Chicago Bulls); Julius Randle (New York Knicks); Duncan Robinson (Miami Heat); Mitchell Robinson (New York Knicks); Fred VanVleet (Toronto Raptors); John Wall (Houston Rockets); Zion Williamson (New Orleans Pelicans); Christian Wood (Houston Rockets);and Trae Young (Atlanta Hawks).

Forty-two of the athletes who were named as finalists on Feb. 10, 2020, also were confirmed for the 2021 list, including: Bam Adebayo (Miami Heat); LaMarcus Aldridge (San Antonio Spurs); Harrison Barnes (Sacramento Kings); Bradley Beal (Washington Wizards); Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns); Malcolm Brogdon (Indiana Pacers); Jaylen Brown (Boston Celtics); Jimmy Butler (Miami Heat); Mike Conley (Utah Jazz); Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors); Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers); DeMar DeRozan (San Antonio Spurs); Andre Drummond (Cleveland Cavaliers); Kevin Durant (Brooklyn Nets); Paul George (LA Clippers); Draymond Green (Golden State Warriors); James Harden (Brooklyn Nets); Montrezl Harrell (Los Angeles Lakers); Joe Harris (Brooklyn Nets); Tobias Harris (Philadelphia 76ers); Gordon Hayward (Charlotte Hornets); Dwight Howard (Philadelphia 76ers); Brandon Ingram (New Orleans Pelicans); Kyrie Irving (Brooklyn Nets); LeBron James (Los Angeles Lakers); Kyle Kuzma (Los Angeles Lakers); Kawhi Leonard (LA Clippers); Damian Lillard (Portland Trail Blazers); Brook Lopez (Milwaukee Bucks); Kevin Love (Cleveland Cavaliers); Kyle Lowry (Toronto Raptors); JaVale McGee (Cleveland Cavaliers); Khris Middleton (Milwaukee Bucks); Donovan Mitchell (Utah Jazz); Victor Oladipo (Houston Rockets); Chris Paul (Phoenix Suns); Mason Plumlee (Detroit Pistons); Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics); Myles Turner (Indiana Pacers); Kemba Walker (Boston Celtics); Russell Westbrook (Washington Wizards); and Derrick White (San Antonio Spurs).

mojo13
03-11-2021, 04:31 PM
USA Basketball Announces 57 Finalists for U.S. Olympic Menís Team (https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2021/03/m-oly-finalists.aspx)

More!

ChuckDiesel2
04-17-2021, 05:50 PM
Best case scenario/2021 Dream Team roster-

Curry/Lillard/Paul
Harden/Beal
Leonard/George/Butler
James/Durant
Davis/Zion*

Narrowly edges Bam.

ChuckDiesel2
05-23-2021, 07:42 PM
Have a feeling the compressed offseason will result in a lot of drop outs, but they could still field a gold medal team by selecting only from guys who didn't make the playoffs.

Lowry/VanVleet/Brogdon
Curry/LaVine
Hayward/Ross
Ingram/Grant
Green/Zion/Turner

madmax
05-23-2021, 09:13 PM
Have a feeling the compressed offseason will result in a lot of drop outs, but they could still field a gold medal team by selecting only from guys who didn't make the playoffs.

Lowry/VanVleet/Brogdon
Curry/LaVine
Hayward/Ross
Ingram/Grant
Green/Zion/Turner

sorry, but this roster doesn't scream "sure Gold medal" to me - a similar quality roster was sent to WC2019 and they were embarrassed there. I think the days of any NT in basketball dominating others to this extent are long gone

Toruko
05-23-2021, 09:36 PM
sorry, but this roster doesn't scream "sure Gold medal" to me - a similar quality roster was sent to WC2019 and they were embarrassed there. I think the days of any NT in basketball dominating others to this extent are long gone

The roster 2019 was way weaker than this one.

ChuckDiesel2
05-23-2021, 09:37 PM
sorry, but this roster doesn't scream "sure Gold medal" to me - a similar quality roster was sent to WC2019 and they were embarrassed there. I think the days of any NT in basketball dominating others to this extent are long gone

Not even close to similar to the 2019 roster. A multiple MVP. Four NBA champions. Better shooting. Bigger. More experienced. More athletic. Better defending. Better playmaking. Smarter. More explosive. I could go on.

Victorious
05-24-2021, 12:36 PM
Not even close to similar to the 2019 roster. A multiple MVP. Four NBA champions. Better shooting. Bigger. More experienced. More athletic. Better defending. Better playmaking. Smarter. More explosive. I could go on.

It's a good team for the tournament. Better than 2019, but I am not sure they will take home the gold.

ChuckDiesel2
05-24-2021, 11:05 PM
Of course there are no sure things in FIBA tournaments. Know far better than to declare a winner on paper. Perhaps should have added "worthy" after "gold medal." Top tier talent like Curry does make up for a lot of the disadvantages USA Basketball faces though (unfamiliarity among teammates/international game, practice time, inability to adjust to style/officiating) In 2010 we faced those same disadvantages without a top tier roster but overcame them because we had Kevin Durant. The 2019 roster didn't have a single top tier star.

mojo13
06-15-2021, 09:26 PM
Lillard, Tatum and Green committed to play today.

reamily
06-15-2021, 09:59 PM
Kawhi commited to this team right? I think he wants an Olympic gold to his legacy

ChuckDiesel2
06-15-2021, 10:08 PM
Lillard, Tatum and Green committed to play today.


Tatum has NOT committed as of yet. Dame and Draymond committing early is huge though, hopefully others follow suit. Time to remind the world of the natural order of basketball.

mojo13
06-15-2021, 10:42 PM
Tatum has NOT committed as of yet. Dame and Draymond committing early is huge though, hopefully others follow suit. Time to remind the world of the natural order of basketball.

Ok.

Thought I saw something about Tatum today. But maybe not.


Edit:

Correction. Tatum has indeed committed to play.

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1404938084622344192?s=20

ChuckDiesel2
06-15-2021, 11:20 PM
Haha yeah, a couple hours after you had him confirmed. Bradley Beal looks to be next.

mojo13
06-15-2021, 11:23 PM
Haha yeah, a couple hours after you had him confirmed. Bradley Beal looks to be next.

Maybe I saw an "expected to" rumor earlier in the day. I'm no Nostradamus.

Shawshank
06-16-2021, 11:12 AM
2019 all nba top 15 players: Giannis,George,Jokic,Harden,Curry,Durant,Leonard,E mbiid,Lillard,Irving,Griffin,James,Gobert,Westbroo k,Walker

Team USA 2019 had one player from top 15 Kemba Walker.

2021 all nba top 15 players: Jokic,Giannis,Doncic,Leonard,Curry,James,Randle,Em biid,Lillard,Paul,Butler,George,Gobert,Beal,Irving .

16th player by media votes was Tatum.

We already see Lillard,Beal,Tatum agreeing to play from top16. Just those 3 makes this Usa olympic team alot stronger than Usa 2019 team.

Leonard said his plan is to play in Olympics if healthy.

ps. I would love to see Curry in Olympics basketball tournament alot.

ChuckDiesel2
06-18-2021, 09:34 AM
If I ran USA basketball Iíd be doing everything in my power to recruit both Curry brothers in tandem. Not only does Seth help lure Steph, heís one of the best shooters on the planet himself and knows how to be a role player, often a lost art among ďstarsĒ with more responsibility on their NBA teams. Would also target Norman Powell and Royce OíNeal for defensive size and toughness on the wing.

ChuckDiesel2
06-19-2021, 03:55 AM
Devin Booker commitment is pretty huge and suprising, considering he’ll has almost no time between the end of the Suns playoff run and the start of the Olympics.

Lillard
Beal
Booker
Tatum
Green.

Pretty damn good first five. Chris Paul, Steph Curry and Zion Williamson are the next three targets.

ChuckDiesel2
06-20-2021, 09:11 PM
Kevin Durant has committed to Team USA. Will be interesting to see who comes in 2nd and 3rd.

Dtown
06-20-2021, 09:27 PM
The tweet from Shams https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1406706856148582410

Got to admit I did NOT expect KD to suit up for Team USA this Summer, an a promising line up now looks fantastic.

Shawshank
06-21-2021, 05:45 PM
Durant,Lillard,Beal,Booker those 4 gonna bombard any zone europeans will try to put :)

Tatum,Green,Adebayo 3 elite,long and fast defenders

i think very smartly put team.If no A.Davis the 2nd and 3rd best center defenders i the world is D.Green and Adebayo.

All this Usa team needs to add more wing defenders (J.Butler,P.George ?) add PG (Curry?) and they gonna smoke everybody on Olympics again.


Europeans hope Usa will bring bad defenders and bad shooters like Randle, Zion types to zone them up . But it seems USA federation people have learned their lessons in fiba.

reamily
06-21-2021, 05:51 PM
Should have been Kawhi leading the team but his injury happened

ChuckDiesel2
06-21-2021, 06:48 PM
James Harden and Bam Adebayo commit. 8/12 roster spots filled. The world has no chance.

Lillard/Harden
Booker/Beal

Durant/Tatum
Green/Bam

Dtown
06-21-2021, 07:09 PM
With the season going long, the Tokyo games looking like a mess, and the pandemic still being a thing, I was expecting a MUCH weaker roster. Like slightly better than the World Cup team level.

This team looks GREAT so far. Great mix of younger and more experienced talent, good size, great shooting, FIBA experience. If they don't get drop outs they should be a massive favorite.

mojo13
06-21-2021, 07:51 PM
Didn't this happen with the 2019 World Cup? A month of big time commitments than a steady drip of players bailing?

I'm going to hold praise until camp starts....


I mean here is the pre-camp presser from 2019.
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2019/06/mnt-training-camp-players.aspx

Beal, Davis, Harden, Lillard, Lowry, McCollum all said they'd play. DeMar DeRozan, Eric Gordon and Tobias Harris all dropped too.

I know it is the Olympics and it is different, but still....

Katastroika
06-21-2021, 08:12 PM
This team is even stronger than 2014. By far if those who commited arrive all together in Tokyo.

Dtown
06-21-2021, 08:24 PM
Didn't this happen with the 2019 World Cup? A month of big time commitments than a steady drip of players bailing?

I'm going to hold praise until camp starts....


I mean here is the pre-camp presser from 2019.
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2019/06/mnt-training-camp-players.aspx

Beal, Davis, Harden, Lillard, Lowry, McCollum all said they'd play. DeMar DeRozan, Eric Gordon and Tobias Harris all dropped too.

I know it is the Olympics and it is different, but still....

I think the difference ( though I could be wrong) is in 2019 most of the commitments were made during the season and backed out of in the off season. With the exception of Booker everyone else is in the off season. Doesn't mean they can't still back out, but it seems less likely.

Steadysoul
06-22-2021, 04:26 PM
James Harden and Bam Adebayo commit. 8/12 roster spots filled. The world has no chance.

Lillard/Harden
Booker/Beal

Durant/Tatum
Green/Bam

This is just people accepting camp invites. We don't actually know who is on the team just just.

DarkoMVP
06-22-2021, 04:32 PM
Already 11 commits for the 12-man roster. Having possible NBA champions Booker and Paul as a bench unit would be quite a solid team

Adebayo, Green
Durant, Love
Tatum, Middleton
Harden, Beal, Booker
Lillard, CP3

reamily
06-22-2021, 04:41 PM
I would be intrigued on who will be the select team in this edition, will we see the lamelo ball's, edwards, derrick whites, I still see unexpected things that makes some of the stars who 'commit" to be unavailable..

ChuckDiesel2
06-22-2021, 04:42 PM
This is just people accepting camp invites. We don't actually know who is on the team just just.

Incorrect. For the Olympics they announce the team and don’t make anyone earn a spot in camp. This will be the team that goes go Tokyo, barring injury or dropouts. Every tweet is worded that they’ve “accepted a spot on the 12 man roster.”

The next step is assembling a “Select team” with a couple guys who are good enough to step in as replacements.

ChuckDiesel2
06-22-2021, 05:20 PM
Says a lot about the quality of the 2019 team that only two guys (Middleton and Tatum) are Olympic caliber, three if you count Donovan Mitchell. Even still, if Tatum stayed healthy we wouldn’t have fallen to 7th.

Shawshank
06-22-2021, 09:06 PM
Already 11 commits for the 12-man roster. Having possible NBA champions Booker and Paul as a bench unit would be quite a solid team

Adebayo, Green
Durant, Love
Tatum, Middleton
Harden, Beal, Booker
Lillard, CP3

Chris Paul declined invitation.

J.Holiday is in instead of him.

Which new big 3 in nba team will be born from this USA Olympic team ?

History shown in those Olympics nba stars hangout alot and start talking about joining forces.

Beal Lillard Love are 3 that obviuos targets because they shouldnt be happy with situation their nba current clubs are in.

Draymond will have time this summer to convince one of them to join Warriors ? :)

ChuckDiesel2
06-23-2021, 04:09 PM
Chris Paul declined invitation.

J.Holiday is in instead of him.

Which new big 3 in nba team will be born from this USA Olympic team ?

History shown in those Olympics nba stars hangout alot and start talking about joining forces.

Beal Lillard Love are 3 that obviuos targets because they shouldnt be happy with situation their nba current clubs are in.

Draymond will have time this summer to convince one of them to join Warriors ? :)

Holiday and Middleton are going to show off the design for their newly won rings and recruit someone to my Milwaukee Bucks. Book it.

ChuckDiesel2
06-23-2021, 06:52 PM
Zach LaVine commits, final roster spot is filled.

Lillard/Harden/Holiday
Beal/LaVine
Booker/Middleton
Durant/Tatum
Green/Bam/Love

Pretty damn good. Next step is putting together a Select Team with eyes on candidates for the 2023 World Cup/2024 Olympics.

Edit: Harden withdraws due to hamstring, replaced by Jeremy Grant.


Big fan of Grant but think they shouldíve gone with a floor general/perimeter defender in Fred VanVleet. Grant brings athleticism and defensive length but is somewhat redundant. Really only have 1.5 point guards in Holiday and Lillard.

madmax
06-23-2021, 08:24 PM
It is indeed a very good collection of offensively gifted individuals, but once again, the front line is very undersized and unassuming and I'm having serious doubts about this team defending any elite FIBA squad effectively...obviously, if Durant is there and he's 100% percent, he can decide any FIBA game on his own, but any bad shooting night can spell a disaster for this squad, especially with them not having any elite defenders

Dtown
06-23-2021, 08:32 PM
Harden has withdrawn, which makes sense given his health, surprised he committed to begin with. So a knock on the team but still very good.

DarkoMVP
06-23-2021, 09:03 PM
It is indeed a very good collection of offensively gifted individuals, but once again, the front line is very undersized and unassuming and I'm having serious doubts about this team defending any elite FIBA squad effectively...obviously, if Durant is there and he's 100% percent, he can decide any FIBA game on his own, but any bad shooting night can spell a disaster for this squad, especially with them not having any elite defenders

Green and Holiday were both on the All-Defensive first team this year. Adebayo is a borderline elite defender, very versatile. And they have a lot of length and speed on the team - guys like Tatum and Middleton, who may not normally be lockdown defenders have potential with reduced offensive effort.

And I don't see them as a team particularly dependent on shooting, they just actually have good shooters, unlike a few previous squads.

As for size, we'll see who can actually punish them.

ChuckDiesel2
06-25-2021, 01:33 AM
Green and Holiday were both on the All-Defensive first team this year. Adebayo is a borderline elite defender, very versatile. And they have a lot of length and speed on the team - guys like Tatum and Middleton, who may not normally be lockdown defenders have potential with reduced offensive effort.

And I don't see them as a team particularly dependent on shooting, they just actually have good shooters, unlike a few previous squads.

As for size, we'll see who can actually punish them.

Spot on. Best team (on paper) since 2012 by a wide margin.

Federoy
07-05-2021, 03:22 AM
Spot on. Best team (on paper) since 2012 by a wide margin.

That's debatable. The 2014 squad featured guys earlier in their careers, but it was one of the most talented teams since USA Basketball's reconstruction after 2004. Perhaps 2021 has better defensive pieces, but 2014 offensively was lights out.

ChuckDiesel2
07-05-2021, 08:02 AM
That's debatable. The 2014 squad featured guys earlier in their careers, but it was one of the most talented teams since USA Basketball's reconstruction after 2004. Perhaps 2021 has better defensive pieces, but 2014 offensively was lights out.

That's for sure. I actually watched a replay of their gold medal win over Serbia a few weeks back, that was insane shotmaking. Kyrie hitting bomb after bomb, Klay pulling in people's faces before they knew what was happening. Young Harden, career apex Boogie Cousins. But as you stated, 2014 was full of guys who (at the time) were early in their careers, before achieving the bulk of their NBA accomplishments. In declaring this the best "on paper" team, I meant partly to say that if you add up all of their career achievements, this would take longer than it has since 2012. Even still, I think they're more dangerous on both ends, deeper and smarter than the 2014 kids.

Darrell Armstrong
07-05-2021, 12:38 PM
Is nobody worried about the fact one quarter of the roster will be unavailable until the 24th if NBA finals require a seventh game? And they play their first game against France the very next day.

JGX
07-05-2021, 06:02 PM
Is nobody worried about the fact one quarter of the roster will be unavailable until the 24th if NBA finals require a seventh game? And they play their first game against France the very next day.

Colangelo talked about it a bit:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2021/06/28/phoenix-suns-devin-booker-named-2021-usa-olympic-team/7782917002/

It's definitely not ideal--even if the series is shorter the guys are going to miss the training camp and most or all of the warmup games--are you going to give them a ton of playing time once they arrive? The new Olympic format doesn't give you as much opportunity to use the group games as practice.

I wonder if they will use some of the select team players to fill out the roster for the warmup games

The qualifiers mostly worked out well for the US, with some of the high-ceiling teams being eliminated.

ChuckDiesel2
07-05-2021, 06:36 PM
In the worst case scenario that Holiday, Middleton and Booker are all forced to miss the Olympics I think they could promote three guys who will already be in camp with the select team (Haliburton, Bey and Edwards) and still win gold fairy easily. Otherwise I’d be curious of the availability of other veterans who didn’t make the team, like VanVleet, Brogdon and Ingram.

Darrell Armstrong
07-05-2021, 08:01 PM
I wonder if they will use some of the select team players to fill out the roster for the warmup games.

That's a given. It doesn't make any sense to bring a bunch of 30+ players to grind through irrelevant games after a grueling season.

JGX
07-10-2021, 01:58 AM
Roster additions for the exhibition games:


Added to the USA National Team roster for the domestic exhibitions were: Saddiq Bey (Detroit Pistons/Villanova); Darius Garland (Cleveland Cavaliers); John Jenkins (Bilbao Basket, Italy/Vanderbilt); Keldon Johnson (San Antonio Spurs/Kentucky); Josh Magette (DarŁşşafaka Tekfen, Turkey/Alabama-Huntsville); Dakota Mathias (Philadelphia 76ers/Purdue) and Cam Reynolds (Houston Rockets/Tulane).

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2021/07/mnt-exhibition-roster-announcement.aspx

A few of these guys played for the US in AmeriCup qualifying.

Dtown
07-11-2021, 02:11 AM
Well that wasn't how you wanted to start the campaign. Nigeria murdered us from 3, and their were problems offensively. I'll hold the panic button for the next two games though.

DunkOnYa
07-11-2021, 03:32 AM
I see everyone overreacting... It's just the first game of a team put together literally last week. They'll do fine after getting used to eachother and learning a few systems.

Federoy
07-11-2021, 05:34 AM
I see everyone overreacting... It's just the first game of a team put together literally last week. They'll do fine after getting used to eachother and learn a few systems.

The fans and media tend to be reactionary over here whenever NBA players lose. The average American basketball fan has no clue how different the NBA and FIBA games are and how the international players (many of whom on this Nigerian roster were born in the US or played here) have narrowed the talent gap significantly. There's time to right the ship, but they need to put in some work in the next two weeks. Mucho respeto al baloncesto espaŮol.

JGX
07-11-2021, 06:58 AM
Probably over-analyzing one game here, but it was notable that the US, with plenty of good shooters, only attempted 24 threes out of 63 field goal attempts, about 38%. Not totally surprising, since the Spurs are always one of the bottom teams in the NBA in terms of three pointers attempted. Compare to the other teams in Vegas tonight:

Nigeria: 42/73 (58%)
Australia: 40/79 (51%)
Argentina: 33/66 (50%)

Or Spain and France in their two games:

Spain: 62/128 (48%)
France: 49/113 (43%)

Or the OQT winners:

Slovenia: 130/280 (46%)
Italy: 96/197 (49%)
Germany: 118/235 (50%)
Czech Republic 100/258 (39%)

Let's play modern basketball.

Darrell Armstrong
07-11-2021, 09:46 AM
I see everyone overreacting... It's just the first game of a team put together literally last week. They'll do fine after getting used to eachother and learn a few systems.

I don't doubt it. But the main problem this squad has is inside defence: Adebayo is not a rim protector. Green and Love are slow and earthbound. Durant is a complete liability. And those 4 are going to play most of the minutes, unless Grant wakes up. I know Jerami played because he shows up in the boxscore, but I surely didn't notice him out there. Nigeria made most of their points by simply driving inside and kicking out to the open shooter when everyone collapsed on the ball. Drive-and-kick is what, the second play you learn after pick-and-roll? I mean, you shouldn't require a month of training just to know how to properly defend that play.

Not good.

Shawshank
07-11-2021, 12:10 PM
please people stop overeacting USA had only 4 days together, 3 players still playing in nba finals.

searching for weakness ale rim protection in Usa NT, Durant ale complete liability in defence thats sound so funny to me :)

Durant gonna score 30pts again in olympic final with 65% shooting and usa wins by 20pts when they gonna start running not walking on the court and take games seriuosly.

This is not Usa 2019 NT with nba average players playing, this usa multiple nba star players on roster.

Darrell Armstrong
07-11-2021, 12:59 PM
please people stop overeacting USA had only 4 days together, 3 players still playing in nba finals.

searching for weakness ale rim protection in Usa NT, Durant ale complete liability in defence thats sound so funny to me :)

Durant gonna score 30pts again in olympic final with 65% shooting and usa wins by 20pts when they gonna start running not walking on the court and take games seriuosly.

This is not Usa 2019 NT with nba average players playing, this usa multiple nba star players on roster.

You seem to fall into a contradiction here: on one hand you claim it's normal for a team to underachieve given the lack of training and time together, while on the other hand you assume three guys (a quarter of the roster, mind you) can arrive just days before the real games start (and this year the first round is only three games, not that many chances to learn on the job) and, somehow, have a positive contribution instead of disrupting the team cohesion and systems.

Comparing the 2019 and 2021 rosters, there's an obvious increase in offensive talent, but that's compensated with the lack of defensive stoppers and so-so bigs. I mean, I'd rather have Myles Turner in my team to patrol the paint than Adebayo. And, as much as it pains me to say that, I doubt Kevin Love can be considered an improvement over Mason Plumlee.

Shawshank
07-11-2021, 02:06 PM
with all respect i dont think you watching nba basketball.You obviuosly dont understand defensive greatness of Green and Adebaya.

3 best nba bigs that can defend inside and move their feet on perimeter today is : 1.A.Davis 2.D.Green 3. B.Adebaya

Today in 2021 basketball is alot more important to defend perimeter not the rim.I understand what is idea bringing Green and Adebaya but not those long and slow bigs from 2019.

If Usa coaches wanted Turner they easily could have him even now,but they saw those rim protectors like Turner,Lopes,Plumlee in 2019 was useless against well shooting teams.I dont know what Love does on this 2021 team,he belongs to those players that played in Usa 2019 team.

Offensive tallent diffrence between Usa 2019 and 2021 teams players is like comparing nba star player nr 1 option on team with 5th aver. scorer on nba team.

Darrell Armstrong
07-11-2021, 02:47 PM
with all respect i dont think you watching nba basketball.You obviuosly dont understand defensive greatness of Green and Adebaya.

3 best nba bigs that can defend inside and move their feet on perimeter today is : 1.A.Davis 2.D.Green 3. B.Adebaya

Today in 2021 basketball is alot more important to defend perimeter not the rim.I understand what is idea bringing Green and Adebaya but not those long and slow bigs from 2019.

If Usa coaches wanted Turner they easily could have him even now,but they saw those rim protectors like Turner,Lopes,Plumlee in 2019 was useless against well shooting teams.I dont know what Love does on this 2021 team,he belongs to those players that played in Usa 2019 team.

Offensive tallent diffrence between Usa 2019 and 2021 teams players is like comparing nba star player nr 1 option on team with 5th aver. scorer on nba team.

I don't watch a lot of NBA games, but I've seen enough to know the style of play is not immediately translatable. Team USA won gold in Rio starting DeAndre Jordan, and his impact was plain to see. In the last World Cup they lost twice, first against a team starting Rudy Gobert (not known for his perimeter skills) which dominated inside; then against Serbia which also dominated with Jokic and Milutinov.

It's true that Draymond Green played center in those "lineups of death" that won championships for the Warriors. But at this stage in his career I don't see how he can compete inside with his lack of size and eroding athleticism. Not as a full-time center. Even Nigeria, lacking a top player at the position, outrebounded Team USA. And that was always one of their calling cards and signs of identity: stingy defense leading to easy transition points, control of the boards leading to a possesion advantage, and protecting the rim forcing the opponent to take lower percentage shots.

Simply put, I don't see how this roster can win unless it overwhelms the opposition on sheer talent alone. Meanwhile, other Team USA incarnations had much more tools at their disposal, and could run almost any team out of the floor with just defence and fastbreaks.

reamily
07-11-2021, 11:15 PM
What is evident in fiba play is the absence 3 in the paint kn defense so the big guys can cheat their way and play in the paint..

JamalJokic
07-12-2021, 04:43 AM
I think team USAs biggest issue is perimeter defense. Lillard, Beal, LaVine and Tatum are not known for defense. They will probably rely heavily on Holiday once he shows up.

reamily
07-12-2021, 05:38 AM
Colangelo talked about it a bit:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2021/06/28/phoenix-suns-devin-booker-named-2021-usa-olympic-team/7782917002/

It's definitely not ideal--even if the series is shorter the guys are going to miss the training camp and most or all of the warmup games--are you going to give them a ton of playing time once they arrive? The new Olympic format doesn't give you as much opportunity to use the group games as practice.

I wonder if they will use some of the select team players to fill out the roster for the warmup games

The qualifiers mostly worked out well for the US, with some of the high-ceiling teams being eliminated.

Yup canada has high ceiling, croatia and obviously serbia..turkey had put the us in ot last time around..we can respect alot in spain but their battling father time..

Federoy
07-12-2021, 05:51 AM
It appears that Pop and his coaching staff didn't learn a damn thing from 2019. Unlike previous national teams with "positionless" players, this team has no primary interior defender and rebounder. As offensively useless as DeAndre Jordan was on the 2016 Olympic squad, he provided the team with an interior presence, same with Davis, Cousins, Drummond and undersized, but tenacious Kenneth Feried in 2014, and a younger Kevin Love and Tyson Chandler in 2012. This team has no anchor, which resulted in Nigeria outrebounding the US, which is almost unheard of in international play. As far as guard play, with all due respect to Lillard or Beal, this team doesn't feature a ball handling/distributing PG whose first instinct is to set up teammates. The magic of 2008-2016 (Paul, Deron Williams, Westbrook, Harden, Rose, Curry, Irving, Lowry, Wade, Kobe and Billups...LeBron as a point forward) is that those squads had excellent ball handlers who could get their own shot or manage the offense as such to set up teammates. The construction of this 2021 team is predicated on perimeter play, and if those shots aren't falling, we'll be in big trouble since we have no bigs to score in the post or rebound for second chance points...it's almost the exact opposite problem of 2004, when we had too many frontcourt players of similar skillset and not enough consistent perimeter play.

Darrell Armstrong
07-13-2021, 08:31 AM
It's true that Draymond Green played center in those "lineups of death" that won championships for the Warriors. But at this stage in his career I don't see how he can compete inside with his lack of size and eroding athleticism. Not as a full-time center. Even Nigeria, lacking a top player at the position, outrebounded Team USA. And that was always one of their calling cards and signs of identity: stingy defense leading to easy transition points, control of the boards leading to a possesion advantage, and protecting the rim forcing the opponent to take lower percentage shots.

Simply put, I don't see how this roster can win unless it overwhelms the opposition on sheer talent alone. Meanwhile, other Team USA incarnations had much more tools at their disposal, and could run almost any team out of the floor with just defence and fastbreaks.

It's a bit cheeky to quote oneself, but after watching Team USA outrebounded again by a Baynes-less Australia, maybe we should reconsider the adequacy of starting Draymond Green (3 rebounds). Not that Adebayo fared much better.

This roster is as unbalanced as they come. Lots of iso players and too little hustle. Lillard had 1 assist and 5 TO, and he's supposedly the table-setter. Other than Holiday, who's a good defender, the rest of the missing players add nothing new to the mix. Poor defence, poor post play, poor ball distribution. They can still beat anyone if one of the stars catches fire, but you can't go into a tournament hoping that heroics will net you 4-5 wins.

anon9000
07-13-2021, 09:33 AM
Lillard is a one dimensional but talented chucker w/ matador D. In a talented pool he would be ok but he doesn't have the luxury to hide on D.

The lack of wing defenders, playmakers, and true bigs is gonna be a problem. KD and Co have to drop 30+ to offset the poor roster construction.

Team USA from 08-12 and 16 would just overwhelm you with a full court press and get easy points off turnovers. However, they also had enough depth from their 12 man roster where they can make an impact without scoring. This team sucks on defense and all intangibles compared to the past versions. You can see how NBA rules and International rules differ, how it make an NBA DPOY be pedestrian when physicality actually happens.

You can say its to early but team USA rarely loses in exhibitions. Also Pop lost in 2019 FIBA and one of the bronze 04 medal coaches. Its a good tell of how things can turn out if this continues.

Darrell Armstrong
07-13-2021, 10:00 AM
You can say its to early but team USA rarely loses in exhibitions. Also Pop lost in 2019 FIBA and one of the bronze 04 medal coaches. Its a good tell of how things can turn out if this continues.

It's early, and they still can come home with a gold medal, but this roster is flawed from the very beginning. Some mistakes were easily avoidable and cannot be blamed on the coach. Why settle on those 12 players without giving them a chance to play together and see who fits and who doesn't? Did they really find impossible to call up 20 good players and let them compete for a final roster spot? Why warrant a final spot to players who may not be available until the games begin?

I can't fathom a good reason to make such boneheaded commitments before the Olympics. I get that americans don't care too much about the World Cup, but the Olympics? All has been going downhill from that final roster announcement.

anon9000
07-13-2021, 10:24 AM
It's early, and they still can come home with a gold medal, but this roster is flawed from the very beginning. Some mistakes were easily avoidable and cannot be blamed on the coach. Why settle on those 12 players without giving them a chance to play together and see who fits and who doesn't? Did they really find impossible to call up 20 good players and let them compete for a final roster spot? Why warrant a final spot to players who may not be available until the games begin?

I can't fathom a good reason to make such boneheaded commitments before the Olympics. I get that americans don't care too much about the World Cup, but the Olympics? All has been going downhill from that final roster announcement.

Well the roster has a lot of guys who cant defend at team USA's elite level which we are all used too. Other than Draymond who in this team is a legitimate defender. I don't need to see too much of them to know a bad roster composition. Too many scorers, not enough two way players. Lets look at the 2016 roster:

- KD, Melo, George, Butler, Lowry, Klay are all two way players that are legit stars and can make stops.

Derozan, Barnes, Cousins and Deandre are also two way players that have a specific utility to the roster.


What we are seeing is Team USA working, before it was easy until the medal rounds.

This looks like 04 where all the best players declined or got injured. Too much ISO play and no leadership. Coach K made all the stars accountable while Pop is just allowing them to " figure it out" . He lost more in his recent stint (including FIBA) than Coach K.

Coach K 139-7

Pop 38-10

Shawshank
07-13-2021, 03:11 PM
i watched Usa-Australia full game.

Australia again strong candidate being in semifinal like 2016 and 2019. Thybulle added defensive wing for boomers they didnt have.

Usa really tried to win this one.

Right now they basically have 7 players that is worthy Usa olympic uniform Durant,Lillard,Beal,Tatum,Green best lineup + Adebayo,Lavine as subs basically only they played in 2 half vs boomers.

3 Usa players is in nba finals.

Love is asistant coach not player at this point. Grant,Johnson,Garland are just good young nba players,but not Usa NT worthy calibre players.


after first lose i wasnt taking seriuosly USA can have problems in olympics,lose againts australia i would took way more seriuosly those 7 USA players really tried to win that game in 2 half and couldnt.

Darrell Armstrong
07-13-2021, 04:41 PM
i watched Usa-Australia full game.

Australia again strong candidate being in semifinal like 2016 and 2019. Thybulle added defensive wing for boomers they didnt have.

Usa really tried to win this one.

Right now they basically have 7 players that is worthy Usa olympic uniform Durant,Lillard,Beal,Tatum,Green best lineup + Adebayo,Lavine as subs basically only they played in 2 half vs boomers.

3 Usa players is in nba finals.

Love is asistant coach not player at this point. Grant,Johnson,Garland are just good young nba players,but not Usa NT worthy calibre players.


after first lose i wasnt taking seriuosly USA can have problems in olympics,lose againts australia i would took way more seriuosly those 7 USA players really tried to win that game in 2 half and couldnt.

They do have a problem with those 7 players: there's no way to hide Durant on defense. In the last few minutes the aussies attacked Durant (I laughed when Mills took him way out of the 3-point line and blew by him like he wasn't there) and almost always got something positive (although Durant had one nice block, too). Green could not cover for him, and was exposed in the perimeter a few times, too. That pair of "bigs" lost the fight for rebounds, while less talented hustle players like Nick Kay managed to grab a few key misses and give Australia second chances. This is unlikely to get better with the options available, and the players they were missing today won't help in this regard.

I guess you can live with that hole if Durant is making a 3-point play every time on the other side of the court, but when he's missing, he becomes a cheat code... for the opposing side.

At least they can count on winning the traditional close game against Spain to give them a much needed moral boost before the Games start.

JGX
07-15-2021, 01:02 AM
Bradley Beal in COVID protocols. We'll have to wait for more info but not ideal. No idea of his own vaccination status but his wife is kind of an anti-vax nutter.

Darrell Armstrong
07-15-2021, 08:18 AM
Bradley Beal in COVID protocols. We'll have to wait for more info but not ideal. No idea of his own vaccination status but his wife is kind of an anti-vax nutter.

This is just too bad. He was the best 2-way guard on the team. I don't know enough about the health and safety protocols overseas, but Japan requires athletes to quarantine for 3 days on arrival. If Beal has to isolate for 10 days (I don't know the exact number), then take a flight to Tokyo, then isolate for 3 extra days... he's not going to be available for their first two games (France and Iran). And Booker, Holiday, and Middleton will be quite likely unavailable too; at least for the game against France. That's one third of the roster.

Of course, if Beal is vaccinated and tests negative he should be able to catch the same flight as the rest of the team, even if he's kept out of games. In that case this may be a minor inconvenience. It sucks to not have the full team available for warm-up games, but shouldn't have a big impact in the tournament.

Bradley, you got your jabs, didn't you?

Shawshank
07-15-2021, 01:12 PM
They do have a problem with those 7 players: there's no way to hide Durant on defense. In the last few minutes the aussies attacked Durant (I laughed when Mills took him way out of the 3-point line and blew by him like he wasn't there) and almost always got something positive (although Durant had one nice block, too). Green could not cover for him, and was exposed in the perimeter a few times, too. That pair of "bigs" lost the fight for rebounds, while less talented hustle players like Nick Kay managed to grab a few key misses and give Australia second chances. This is unlikely to get better with the options available, and the players they were missing today won't help in this regard.

I guess you can live with that hole if Durant is making a 3-point play every time on the other side of the court, but when he's missing, he becomes a cheat code... for the opposing side.

At least they can count on winning the traditional close game against Spain to give them a much needed moral boost before the Games start.

Oh please Durant is not the worst defender who will play PF/C at Olympics that best guards gonna hunt big men in 2 x 2 game. Ask for 2m08 long dude defend little guards and make remark that he is hole in defence because he couldnt stay in front of 1m85 fast guard few times its very objective jugment.

When team main defence will be switch all every big Green,Durant,Adebayo gonna get schooled by best fiba guards from time to time because is not fair fight in speed.But that doesnt make them holes in defence as overall defenders.

I wonder how your C positions players like old gasols brothers will look guarding Mills in switches are u sure it wont be alot worse? :) Durant will play some minutes at C position when it will win time for team USA and they will switch all in defence and attack fiba best teams with 5 shooters KD,Booker,Lillard,Tatum,Middleton .

If Usa will win gold in olympics Durant will be main reason real cheat code yes u are right. We saw already that multiple tournaments. Thats is most unstoppable offensive force maybe ever in fiba.

Durants defence/offence combinations is last thing usa coaching staff have sleepless night because off.

Usa problems is 3 players in nba finals,one player got covid that 33% of the main USA team is not training together one week before start.Thats can play big role if usa will fail in Olympics.

Darrell Armstrong
07-15-2021, 01:40 PM
Oh please Durant is not the worst defender who will play PF/C at Olympics that best guards gonna hunt big men in 2 x 2 game. Ask for 2m08 long dude guard little guards and make remark that he is hole in defence because he couldnt stay in front of 1m85 fast guard few times its just funny fairy tales.

When Durant is locked in he can be solid defender in 2021 nba playoofs shown that.



I'm calling 'em as I see 'em. Australia, and in a less consistent way Nigeria, both took advantage of Durant's shortcomings to outscore and outrebound Durant's team. You seem to think he will eventually "get it" and become a respectable defender once the tournament begins. I have my reservations, as thirtysomething players coming out of serious injuries and long seasons rarely get better the more minutes they play. But it could be, let's see.



I wonder how your old gasols brothers will look guarding Mills in switches are u sure it wont be alot worse? :)


You can ask Mills if he found Spain's defence lacking in the last World Cup. Seems to me Spain does a much better job on help defence and protecting centers from bad switches.



If Usa will win gold in olympics Durant will be main reason real cheat code yes u are right. We saw already that multiple tournaments. Thats is most unstoppable offensive force maybe ever in fiba.

KD scores 45pts on Giannis and Tucker on daily basis goodluck finding white dude that gonna stop him when real games starts.

I don't doubt Durant and the rest are going to score in bunches. But, somehow, they are having a lot of trouble in those first preparation games. You believe they just need to get into rhythm and then they will roll over the competition. I'm not buying that at the moment. And anyway, as I said the problem is not the scoring: getting rebounds and stops is.

reamily
07-15-2021, 02:44 PM
My issue with us is they will battle france with 9 men and probably 8 if beal protocols are not met..Serbia played Philippines with 9 men and their top guard defender jovic became injured and they paid dearly in the most important game for this nt season..

Darrell Armstrong
07-15-2021, 03:31 PM
My issue with us is they will battle france with 9 men and probably 8 if beal protocols are not met..Serbia played Philippines with 9 men and their top guard defender jovic became injured and they paid dearly in the most important game for this nt season..

Well, against all reason Popovich is playing his stars almost 30 minutes per game even in exhibition games. I don't know if it's related, but they already have a starter injured (Tatum). At the very least, they won't have to change the game plan against France...

ChuckDiesel2
07-15-2021, 07:14 PM
We still might win gold but this shit looks like if’s fallin apart 8 days from the start of the Olympics. Really poor planning and roster construction from Jerry and Pop

JGX
07-15-2021, 07:30 PM
Beal out of the Olympics, Grant in COVID protocol, who knows when/if the Bucks/Suns players will be available.

Josh Magette, your time to shine.

Darrell Armstrong
07-15-2021, 07:46 PM
Beal out of the Olympics, Grant in COVID protocol, who knows when/if the Bucks/Suns players will be available.

Josh Magette, your time to shine.

That's shameful. I was really hoping to see a good tournament after a shitty year without international competition :(

madmax
07-15-2021, 07:49 PM
Beal out of the Olympics, Grant in COVID protocol, who knows when/if the Bucks/Suns players will be available.

Josh Magette, your time to shine.

Beal is officially out?
Oh well, that might even be better for them if they actually manage to grab some 3 and D guy instead of the same one - dimensional perimeter scorers that this team is filled with

Darrell Armstrong
07-15-2021, 08:31 PM
Beal is officially out?
Oh well, that might even be better for them if they actually manage to grab some 3 and D guy instead of the same one - dimensional perimeter scorers that this team is filled with

I doubt they can find someone who can score and defend at the same level as Beal. We're talking about a top-5 SG. If they bring a replacement from the Select Team, the options are laughable... Hope they can talk someone good into joining the squad. I'm not sure if veterans like Curry, Butler or Lowry can be swayed because they already had the opportunity to enjoy the Olympic experience (and in a non-pandemic year). But I'm thinking someone like Mitchell, Jaylen Brown, or even Malcolm Brogdon.

madmax
07-15-2021, 08:58 PM
I doubt they can find someone who can score and defend at the same level as Beal. We're talking about a top-5 SG. If they bring a replacement from the Select Team, the options are laughable... Hope they can talk someone good into joining the squad. I'm not sure if veterans like Curry, Butler or Lowry can be swayed because they already had the opportunity to enjoy the Olympic experience (and in a non-pandemic year). But I'm thinking someone like Mitchell, Jaylen Brown, or even Malcolm Brogdon.

LOL, you actually consider Beal a good defender?:rolleyes: Wizards actually performed better than he was off the floor last season despite his stratospheric scoring numbers lmao. As for his replacement, they don't even need another All Star level guard with matador D - all they need is a hustle defender who would be disrupting opponents' possessions on a consitent basis. I'm sure they can find one from their deep talent pool of guards...

Darrell Armstrong
07-15-2021, 10:04 PM
LOL, you actually consider Beal a good defender?:rolleyes: Wizards actually performed better than he was off the floor last season despite his stratospheric scoring numbers lmao. As for his replacement, they don't even need another All Star level guard with matador D - all they need is a hustle defender who would be disrupting opponents' possessions on a consitent basis. I'm sure they can find one from their deep talent pool of guards...


Not a good defender but an adequate one. I said score and defend. Of course, they could bring in someone who is a defensive specialist, but that would be a notable departure from the usual USAB selection criteria. They seem to be obsessed with scoring. But I must admit that whenever they have brought more defence-oriented players, like Smart and White in the last World Cup, they weren't that effective.

reamily
07-15-2021, 11:51 PM
Problems keep coming in for them, I think they see keldon johnson as more of a contributor than grant

mojo13
07-16-2021, 03:07 PM
Kevin Love pulled out to. Not fit enough to play.

reamily
07-16-2021, 03:14 PM
Kevin Love pulled out to. Not fit enough to play.

Thank God, what is Colangelo thinking, giving slots to players that they didnt even seen enough in a training camp

Darrell Armstrong
07-16-2021, 04:15 PM
Kevin Love pulled out to. Not fit enough to play.


That was painfully obvious for anyone who has seen him in any of the exhibitions. Let's hope Randle or any of the other bigs that were snubbed to leave room for Love do not hold a grudge against USAB and join the team.

reamily
07-16-2021, 05:12 PM
That was painfully obvious for anyone who has seen him in any of the exhibitions. Let's hope Randle or any of the other bigs that were snubbed to leave room for Love do not hold a grudge against USAB and join the team.

Former Gilas naturalized prospect Javal mcgee to the rescue for team USA...

Darrell Armstrong
07-16-2021, 06:40 PM
Former Gilas naturalized prospect Javal mcgee to the rescue for team USA...

This is exactly the kind of center they need, although I was hoping for a younger, more decorated player. McGee hasn't played much this year, but was in Denver's playoff roster so he shouldn't be completely out of shape.

JGX
07-16-2021, 07:07 PM
Never really imagined Javale McGee, US Olympian, but it's probably worth it just to troll Shaq. Doubt he will get serious playing time anyway.

Keldon Johnson is just a guy, but he's been there training with the team and playing in the exhibitions so why not. If the NBA finals guys ever show up he won't play much either.

Darrell Armstrong
07-16-2021, 08:34 PM
I'm not sold on Keldon Johnson. He's a wingman, not a guard. He's not going to get any minutes with Booker, Grant, Tatum and Middleton around. But that first game against France, they really need a ballhandling guard to back Lillard up. They're a rolled ankle away from being forced to play LaVine 40 minutes at PG.

Joöko Poljak Fan
07-17-2021, 06:00 AM
McGee isn't some incredible fit for international game. Some c that could stretch the floor would be way more useful imo.

ChuckDiesel2
07-17-2021, 07:16 AM
Keldon Johnson is a really good role plyer for this team, which is exactly what they need. One of the few guys who camp into camp in shape and seemed unbothered by the physicality of FIBA ball. Throughout the first three exhibition games he had some impressive cuts to the hoop, was active defensively and didn’t hesitate to make a play when he got the ball.

I think McGee must just be there to keep the team loose & provide energetic bench celebrations. I understand what they think he can provide conceptually but he’s NBA coach didn’t trust him for even spot minutes on a depleted Nuggets team. The best version of McGee could provide some some rim protection/rim running value in short bursts & can definitely get from baseline to baseline faster than opposing FIBA centers his size. The one way he could be really impactful is if he develops a quick knack for knocking the ball off the cylinder, which he’s done thousands of times by accent throughout his career.

I’m relieved Love is gone and while you never want to lose a player the caliber of Beal, sometimes guys at that level are easier to unlock when they know they’ll have a defined role. Huge opportunity for LaVine to prove himself on the biggest stage of his career that’s not a dunk contest.

Darrell Armstrong
07-19-2021, 09:52 PM
LaVine out. Lillard's ballhandling duties extend now to all 40 minutes of the game, until Holiday arrives. They're saying they will wait for LaVine instead of replacing him, but that puts the body count against France dangerously low. They have 8 able players, and one of them hasn't even dressed for Team USA yet.

Shawshank
07-19-2021, 10:32 PM
i dont get with all this positive test only in Usa team.

Its seems usa checking their players like nba teams every day twice. Other NT checks their players once in 3 days? :)

Because otherwise i dont get in usa there more positive tests with 9 only players in roster than in other 11 NT combined.

If Usa starting Olympics with 8 players thats would be funny :)

JGX
07-19-2021, 11:00 PM
If we could just get Walter Hodge to switch from the USVI to the US we don't need any other guards.

JGX
07-19-2021, 11:16 PM
i dont get with all this positive test only in Usa team.

Its seems usa checking their players like nba teams every day twice. Other NT checks their players once in 3 days? :)

Because otherwise i dont get in usa there more positive tests with 9 only players in roster than in other 11 NT combined.

If Usa starting Olympics with 8 players thats would be funny :)

Yeah, I'm curious what the deal is with LaVine, he already had covid a few months ago and he is probably vaccinated (he already had the first shot when he got covid before). It would be incredibly bad luck if he were infected again, and it seems pretty extreme if they're holding him out just for having contact with someone.

Shawshank
07-20-2021, 12:05 AM
Yeah, I'm curious what the deal is with LaVine, he already had covid a few months ago and he is probably vaccinated (he already had the first shot when he got covid before). It would be incredibly bad luck if he were infected again, and it seems pretty extreme if they're holding him out just for having contact with someone.

Lesson about Lavine for other players in covid times stay at home with your pants on.

Usa NT team 8 players in olympic village should not be allowed to exit their room or again rent some huge ship for entire team because in that olympic village is going real parties between athletes and covid will go from body to body .

I saw S.Kerr and Popovich is running in usa practises getting in shape,but i doubt it can work even if those 2 will remember their playing days and usa nt will need extra bodies in some games.

ChuckDiesel2
07-21-2021, 07:04 PM
Holiday, Middleton, Booker and LaVine are all headed to Tokyo and are capable of being complete game changers. Save for maybe Luka Doncic, there isn't a playmaker in this competition that Holiday won't make life miserable for. Grant and McGee never need to play in non Iran/blowout games. Very interested to see how Pop's rotations will shake out, but I'd like something like this.

Dame/LaVine
Holiday/Booker
Middleton/Tatum
Durant/Johnson
Bam/Green

Darrell Armstrong
07-21-2021, 08:06 PM
Holiday, Middleton, Booker and LaVine are all headed to Tokyo and are capable of being complete game changers. Save for maybe Luka Doncic, there isn't a playmaker in this competition that Holiday won't make life miserable for. Grant and McGee never need to play in non Iran/blowout games. Very interested to see how Pop's rotations will shake out, but I'd like something like this.

Dame/LaVine
Holiday/Booker
Middleton/Tatum
Durant/Johnson
Bam/Green

If LaVine arrives tomorrow he may be able to participate against France. That's good news indeed for a team which was very shorthanded.

But, before getting fired up about those additions, please consider that LaVine was on the court in both losses against Nigeria and Argentina, Middleton was part of the 7th-place team on 2019, and Booker really doesn't provide anything this roster didn't already had in spades. Holiday's defense and playmaking make make a real difference, though.

ChuckDiesel2
07-22-2021, 07:19 PM
If LaVine arrives tomorrow he may be able to participate against France. That's good news indeed for a team which was very shorthanded.

But, before getting fired up about those additions, please consider that LaVine was on the court in both losses against Nigeria and Argentina, Middleton was part of the 7th-place team on 2019, and Booker really doesn't provide anything this roster didn't already had in spades. Holiday's defense and playmaking make make a real difference, though.

Booker will be absolutely vital to this roster, especially with Beal out. I get the sense you’re not familiar with many of these guys but you’ll learn soon enough.

Darrell Armstrong
07-22-2021, 08:19 PM
Booker will be absolutely vital to this roster, especially with Beal out. I get the sense you’re not familiar with many of these guys but you’ll learn soon enough.

Well, I don't follow the NBA that much, but Booker is, essentially, a ball-dominant scorer. And that role is something this NT isn't exactly lacking. Maybe he has learned to play off the ball this year with Chris Paul. But Lillard is no Paul. He's not a lockdown defender, nor a good rebounder, and even shot worse than average (34%) from the three-point line this season. I'm sure he could be very efficient as a scorer if the team fed him the ball, but sharing the court with Lillard and Durant I don't see that happening soon.

I may be completely wrong, but it seems likely coach Popovich will find more minutes for better defenders like Johnson and Holiday, or better shooters like LaVine.

ChuckDiesel2
07-22-2021, 11:09 PM
Well, I don't follow the NBA that much, but Booker is, essentially, a ball-dominant scorer. And that role is something this NT isn't exactly lacking. Maybe he has learned to play off the ball this year with Chris Paul. But Lillard is no Paul. He's not a lockdown defender, nor a good rebounder, and even shot worse than average (34%) from the three-point line this season. I'm sure he could be very efficient as a scorer if the team fed him the ball, but sharing the court with Lillard and Durant I don't see that happening soon.

I may be completely wrong, but it seems likely coach Popovich will find more minutes for better defenders like Johnson and Holiday, or better shooters like LaVine.

Firstly I'm not sure why you're under the impression this team doesn't need scoring. When things bog down (as they always do) Team USA absolutely needs a bucket getter to bail them out. This was the case for even the star laden 08 and 12 teams. Alleviating the offensive pressure will also allow everyone else to exert more effort defensively, force turnovers and get out in transition. Everything else negative you seem to have gleamed about Booker from reading his stats I can only shrug.

Killer Bob
07-23-2021, 12:58 AM
Firstly I'm not sure why you're under the impression this team doesn't need scoring. When things bog down (as they always do) Team USA absolutely needs a bucket getter to bail them out. This was the case for even the star laden 08 and 12 teams. Alleviating the offensive pressure will also allow everyone else to exert more effort defensively, force turnovers and get out in transition. Everything else negative you seem to have gleamed about Booker from reading his stats I can only shrug.

I believe that he's implying that Booker is great scorer but not extremely good shooter. With many players in USA team being great scorers it's really questionable what new Booker can bring. He won't get role or playing time he's getting in Suns for sure. Sure he can help somewhat, but not exactly game changer.

ChuckDiesel2
07-23-2021, 06:31 AM
I believe that he's implying that Booker is great scorer but not extremely good shooter. With many players in USA team being great scorers it's really questionable what new Booker can bring. He won't get role or playing time he's getting in Suns for sure. Sure he can help somewhat, but not exactly game changer.

He’s a game change for the pressure he’ll put on opposing defenses and help alleviate from his teammates offensively. Our glaring disadvantage is lack of cohesion, and in those many instances when things break down and we just need a bucket, Booker is a fantastic weapon to have. No one gets “the same role or playing time” on their national team as they do professionally, so that’s irrelevant. Booker has the talent to be very impactful in the role he’s in, as do Middlton and Holiday. You’ll all learn soon enough.

Stevy
07-23-2021, 06:42 AM
He’s a game change for the pressure he’ll put on opposing defenses and help alleviate from his teammates offensively. Our glaring disadvantage is lack of cohesion, and in those many instances when things break down and we just need a bucket, Booker is a fantastic weapon to have. No one gets “the same role or playing time” on their national team as they do professionally, so that’s irrelevant. Booker has the talent to be very impactful in the role he’s in, as do Middlton and Holiday. You’ll all learn soon enough.

Well I do hope that 3 late additions will help this team. The preparation is just too short in my opinion. Pop's system is already dumbed down to accommodate for the lack of preparation. Their offense did in fairness looked so much better against Argentina and Spain but 3 late additions will affect chemistry. They will need to get it together ASAP in the group stage, without cohesion it will be harder for them to succeed especially if their iso won't hit. I still have them as the number 1 favorite to win it all though.

Killer Bob
07-23-2021, 07:34 AM
He’s a game change for the pressure he’ll put on opposing defenses and help alleviate from his teammates offensively. Our glaring disadvantage is lack of cohesion, and in those many instances when things break down and we just need a bucket, Booker is a fantastic weapon to have. No one gets “the same role or playing time” on their national team as they do professionally, so that’s irrelevant. Booker has the talent to be very impactful in the role he’s in, as do Middlton and Holiday. You’ll all learn soon enough.

Playing time is very relevant for all those volume scores/average shooters. He needs many shots to be effective, don't see getting them in this team. Less spacing, different defensive rules and no defensive 3 second rule will all have negative impact on his game, no wide open driving lanes anymore. Being very average 3-point shooter won't help either. He's not Curry. If you look closer to his playoffs stats, which might look impressive, you can see how inefficient he really was. FG% 44.7, 3pts% 32.1, eFG% 49.4. TS% 55.8, saved by great FT%. BPM -0.3. Vorp 0.4. Not really a player that Pop needs or wants. On the other hand he can be effective on good shooting night, so having him is for sure plus, but not on the level you're implying.

Darrell Armstrong
07-23-2021, 08:45 AM
Firstly I'm not sure why you're under the impression this team doesn't need scoring. When things bog down (as they always do) Team USA absolutely needs a bucket getter to bail them out. This was the case for even the star laden 08 and 12 teams. Alleviating the offensive pressure will also allow everyone else to exert more effort defensively, force turnovers and get out in transition. Everything else negative you seem to have gleamed about Booker from reading his stats I can only shrug.

First, I agree with what Killer Bob said. Then, to be more specific, I'm not saying anything negative about Booker. Just a fair assessment: as he's a 6'3 SG, and not exactly an athletic freak; is obvious he's not going to help much with rebounding, or blocking shots. He's also not a great spot-up shooter, or the kind of SG who pressures defences constantly with off-ball movement.

So, if I'm not mistaken, your opinion is that USA's offence is going to be based on finding the hot hand, and having multiple threats to score on the floor at the same time. In that scenario, having someone who can get hot and is capable of creating his own shots like Booker is a plus. I have a different perspective: combining different ways to score is more reliable. You already have a number of unstoppable iso scorers, including two GOAT candidates like Dame Time Lillard and Kevin Durant. Having other kind of players, like catch-and-shoot wings who can stretch defences, cutters, post scorers, or dominant perimeter defenders who can create fast break opportunities is more valuable, in my eyes, than adding someone else who needs the ball to contribute.

Not to say he won't explode at some point and win a close game by himself. Just that, maybe, with a different kind of player there would be no need for his heroics in the first place. Not that I'm comparing both players, but Spain suffered for years a similar situation with Navarro. Once he retired and the coaches could implement more balanced offences and sophisticated defences, the team even improved, instead of missing his scoring.

ChuckDiesel2
07-23-2021, 07:27 PM
Playing time is very relevant for all those volume scores/average shooters. He needs many shots to be effective, don't see getting them in this team. Less spacing, different defensive rules and no defensive 3 second rule will all have negative impact on his game, no wide open driving lanes anymore. Being very average 3-point shooter won't help either. He's not Curry. If you look closer to his playoffs stats, which might look impressive, you can see how inefficient he really was. FG% 44.7, 3pts% 32.1, eFG% 49.4. TS% 55.8, saved by great FT%. BPM -0.3. Vorp 0.4. Not really a player that Pop needs or wants. On the other hand he can be effective on good shooting night, so having him is for sure plus, but not on the level you're implying.

Booker is 100% a player Pop "wants and needs", hence his inclusion on this team and invitation to the 2019 team. It's interesting you keep tossing out NBA numbers in an attempt predict the ineffectiveness of Booker as FIBA player, while also claiming he's a poor fit for the international game. In the NBA he faces constant double teams and is engine of the Suns entire offense. Good luck guarding him when he's lined up alongside Lillard and Durant. He'll also be better defensively than he's required to be in the NBA. Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Harden, Kyrie also faced similar criticisms from International fans ahead of FIBA tournaments and they were able to adapt and be very effective in their USA roles. Booker isn't on their level but he's closer to those guys than you realize. At this point all I can do is watch the games and resume this conversation when we have more information.

Killer Bob
07-23-2021, 10:13 PM
Booker is 100% a player Pop "wants and needs", hence his inclusion on this team and invitation to the 2019 team. It's interesting you keep tossing out NBA numbers in an attempt predict the ineffectiveness of Booker as FIBA player, while also claiming he's a poor fit for the international game. In the NBA he faces constant double teams and is engine of the Suns entire offense. Good luck guarding him when he's lined up alongside Lillard and Durant. He'll also be better defensively than he's required to be in the NBA. Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Harden, Kyrie also faced similar criticisms from International fans ahead of FIBA tournaments and they were able to adapt and be very effective in their USA roles. Booker isn't on their level but he's closer to those guys than you realize. At this point all I can do is watch the games and resume this conversation when we have more information.

What numbers should I toss, if not from Nba? You can spin it however you want, but numbers don't lie. Booker is inefficient chucker, who couldn't even get in playoffs before CP3 came. CP3 was in conversation for MVP not him. CP3 had light years better advanced stats than Booker. Booker's 27 points, 6 from FT line, with 28 shots is far from impressive. All Nba stars are double teamed because with modern Nba rules nobody can guard anyone 1 on 1 anymore.
Only Carmelo belongs in the same sentence with Booker, similar chucker.

Hepcat
07-24-2021, 05:27 AM
See the basketball players secret! click here: https://bestopy.com

You asshole. Ban this spammer.

:mad:

ChuckDiesel2
07-24-2021, 05:23 PM
Only Carmelo belongs in the same sentence with Booker, similar chucker.

To this point, would you agree or disagree that Carmelo Anthony (3x Gold medalist, top scorer in U.S. Olympic basketball history) was a “game changer” for Team USA?

Killer Bob
07-24-2021, 10:51 PM
To this point, would you agree or disagree that Carmelo Anthony (3x Gold medalist, top scorer in U.S. Olympic basketball history) was a “game changer” for Team USA?

Of course he was part of 2004 and 2006 teams, which forced USA to take Fiba competitions seriously again. ;)

USA basketball team is normally so dominant, that they don't need game changers. And you have KD, who really is a game changer. Carmelo, as Booker, could have fantastic games of course, but their job description is inefficient chuckers. Playing for USA in Olympics is sure medal and gold very likely, no matter which year or who you are.

Difference in quality is just too big. How many players from other teams in this year's competition, could have had realistic chances to make team USA? Problem for USA is not in quality, but team chemistry, which is very unlikely that Booker can improve.

Katastroika
07-25-2021, 01:58 PM
What a defensive masterpiece of France, controlling the boards and slowing down Americans.

This team will struggle to take gold this year. Huge wake up call.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 02:03 PM
Congrats to France, it's weird not having a game thread for this. US just collapsed in the last few minutes. Terrible start to the tournament, but I feel the US can 'get well' against Iran and the Czech Republic who doesn't look like they're on France's level.

Durant was terrible today. Foul trouble took him right out of the game.

Though we lost Jrue deserves absolute praise. Considering he literally just flew into Japan following the NBA finals and was the best player on the court at times.

usagre
07-25-2021, 02:09 PM
LMAO! Popovich lol. And his customary happy congratulating of opponent coach. Even Kevin Durant who was like 40-0 wasnít immune to Popovich coaching. Couldnít have happened to a nicer coaching staff and group of players. Only LeBronís presence would have made it perfect. Very appropriate that a coaching staff and group of players that hate their country should perform like this. So fitting. Only question for Iran game is do the Iranian players or Popovich and US hate the United States more. Very close call. This is gonna be fun.
I havenít been on for almost 2 years because this site jumped the shark for me a while a go but this was just to sweet to resist.

DunkOnYa
07-25-2021, 02:11 PM
France is just a match-up nightmare for the USA team. It's one of the few teams that are able to compete athletically against the Americans, and have enough talent to be effective against the lack of experience of the USA. Anyway, the USA is still very much alive... The first place of the group is still up for grabs.

Victorious
07-25-2021, 02:11 PM
I feel the US can 'get well' against Iran and the Czech Republic who doesn't look like they're on France's level.

They are not even close to France's level.

I believe this is the first time the US lost at the Olympics since 2004. All the other losses were on World Championships.


Though we lost Jrue deserves absolute praise. Considering he literally just flew into Japan following the NBA finals and was the best player on the court at times.

Consider that that the star player Jrue left behind in Milwaukee is another European player. The he went on to play for USA, and lost against a European team. The basketball landschape is changing. You need to bring the absolute best in order not to loose. But the US has some chances to win the gold and only France, Spain and Australia can beat them. Sadly Serbia is not in the tournament. But I would like to see some team like Slovenija or Italy surprise me.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 02:13 PM
France is just a match-up nightmare for the USA team. It's one of the few teams that are able to compete athletically against the Americans, and have enough talent to be effective against the lack of experience of the USA. Anyway, the USA is still very much alive... The first place of the group is still up for grabs.

Barring shocking upset I can't see France losing to Iran/Czech republic. That said with the weird seeding system this year, the US might not be penalized too harshly for their loss today.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 02:22 PM
LMAO! Popovich lol. And his customary happy congratulating of opponent coach. Even Kevin Durant who was like 40-0 wasnít immune to Popovich coaching. Couldnít have happened to a nicer coaching staff and group of players. Only LeBronís presence would have made it perfect. Very appropriate that a coaching staff and group of players that hate their country should perform like this. So fitting. Only question for Iran game is do the Iranian players or Popovich and US hate the United States more. Very close call. This is gonna be fun.
I havenít been on for almost 2 years because this site jumped the shark for me a while a go but this was just to sweet to resist.

I never get your obsession with them hating the country? They hated a garbage sack of shit who served as President, that's over now, so we can just say Pop has absolutely sucked as US coach without going into nonsense about hating the country.

usagre
07-25-2021, 02:29 PM
I never get your obsession with them hating the country? They hated a garbage sack of shit who served as President, that's over now, so we can just say Pop has absolutely sucked as US coach without going into nonsense about hating the country.

That sack of shit no longer is President but if you canít see that they still hate our country I donít know what to tell you. This is the Olympics it is inherently nationalistic. When was the last time Popovich ever said anything positive about the US. No he has spent a lifetime apologizing for it to foreign countries. The fact that he has totally destroyed the USA program is fitting in that way. 3-5 last 8 games. That is unimaginable.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 02:36 PM
That sack of shit no longer is President but if you can’t see that they still hate our country I don’t know what to tell you. This is the Olympics it is inherently nationalistic. When was the last time Popovich ever said anything positive about the US. No he has spent a lifetime apologizing for it to foreign countries. The fact that he has totally destroyed the USA program is fitting in that way. 3-5 last 8 games. That is unimaginable.

I mean yeah we can say he sucks as US coach, no ones arguing that, that's a fact. But to say sucking = hating your country is nonsense. They are representing their country poorly (and even then not that poorly France could easily medal this tournament), and are getting embarrassed, but making any conclusions beyond that is delusional.


When was the last time Popovich ever said anything positive about the US.

On this point in particular, I can't remember Pop saying anything positive about anything he's been apart of ever, including those Spurs teams. I always took it as being a guy trying to be humble mixed with being an old bitter curmudgeon. It's something he can get away with when he wins, but makes him look bad when he loses.

usagre
07-25-2021, 02:38 PM
Usa with NBA players and coaching staff without Popovich. Undefeated

With Popovich on coaching staff. 5-4. Lol. The guy is a poison and I said this 5 years ago when he was named coach.
We don’t play to our strengths instead we try to transform our players into Fiba style. Again not surprising with Popovich as coach. I am sorry but I am loving this. Please world don’t let me down send the self loathers home medal less.

usagre
07-25-2021, 02:41 PM
I mean yeah we can say he sucks as US coach, no ones arguing that, that's a fact. But to say sucking = hating your country is nonsense. They are representing their country poorly (and even then not that poorly France could easily medal this tournament), and are getting embarrassed, but making any conclusions beyond that is delusional.

Coach K installed a sense of patriotism in representing the US. His West Point training visits as an example. Popovich wouldn’t do something like that in a million years. I wonder why ?

Dtown
07-25-2021, 02:45 PM
Coach K installed a sense of patriotism in representing the US. His West Point training visits as an example. Popovich wouldn’t do something like that in a million years. I wonder why ?

Because he's not as good of a coach as coach K, and is inflexible when it comes to his coaching style where he's unable to adapt to the talent around him. There are answers to this beyond hating America :p

Shawshank
07-25-2021, 02:45 PM
Usa with NBA players and coaching staff without Popovich. Undefeated



Popovich had no part in 2006 USA semifinal lose.

Darrell Armstrong
07-25-2021, 02:47 PM
Unless the Czechs pull the upset of a lifetime this result is irrelevant. USA can still qualify as the best second and will enjoy the same QF matchup as if they had won the group.

Having said that, can we talk about Durant's defence, or lack thereof?

usagre
07-25-2021, 02:48 PM
And now his buddies in the media are gonna push the narrative that the world is catching up in order to cover for his incompetence. Yeah it’s catching up if Popovich is the coach which I turn leads to slower pace with players passing up shots, not attacking and passing for the sole reason of passing. No purpose behind it. And of course the overall acceptance of losing that Popovich has shown since day one of his hire.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 02:48 PM
Popovich had no part in 2006 USA semifinal lose.

I think he meant undefeated in Olympic play. Still I do think we took Coach K for granted. Six tournaments, 5 titles, 1 loss.

usagre
07-25-2021, 02:49 PM
Popovich had no part in 2006 USA semifinal lose.

I meant Olympics.

usagre
07-25-2021, 02:50 PM
I think he meant undefeated in Olympic play. Still I do think we took Coach K for granted. Six tournaments, 5 titles, 1 loss.

I admit I can’t stand the guy and everything he stands for as American. But his performance makes it so easy.

Shawshank
07-25-2021, 02:53 PM
I meant Olympics.

2008 and 2012 USA team was miles better than this 2021 team.

2016 and 2021 is comparable. In 2016 Olympics Usa beat France only by 3 points too in last minute of game.

France is tough matchup for USA.They have athletism to jump and run with USA and France have way more fiba experience.

usagre
07-25-2021, 02:54 PM
2008 and 2012 USA team was miles better than this 2021 team.

2016 and 2021 its comparable. In 2016 Olympcis Usa beat France only by few points too in last minute of game.

France is tough matchup for USA.They have athletism to jump and run with USA and France have way more fiba experience.

The final 3 point margin in that game was cosmetic. They were up comfortably in final minutes.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 02:55 PM
I feel a US coach would be better served having experience with Super Teams, than having success with a 'do it the right way' defensive mindset team. Larry Brown (who I will always have a soft spot for) wasn't a great USA coach either.

I know Usagre hates Steve Kerr as well, but I think he would be better suited for the role than Pop.

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:00 PM
I feel a US coach would be better served having experience with Super Teams, than having success with a 'do it the right way' defensive mindset team. Larry Brown (who I will always have a soft spot for) wasn't a great USA coach either.

I know Usagre hates Steve Kerr as well, but I think he would be better suited for the role than Pop.

Say what you want about Larry Brown but at least he eliminated Spain who was undefeated and full of great players and also beat an excellent Lithuanian team for the Bronze despite a flawed roster with no outside shooting. What Popovich will accomplish in this tournament will be unprecedented.

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:08 PM
I said it at the time the Popovich hire was a life time achievement kind of selection. It made no sense. He was old to set in his ways and preached the antithesis of what made Usa basketball successful. Now we are reaping the rewards.
A mind boggling 6 losses in 2 years.

Hepcat
07-25-2021, 03:17 PM
I never get your obsession with them hating the country? They hated a garbage sack of shit who served as President, that's over now, so we can just say Pop has absolutely sucked as US coach without going into nonsense about hating the country.

Fuck you. How about the current big government loving sack of shit who raised taxes immediately after taking office?

Keep your political comments out of this thread or I'll stuff them back down your throat every time. I don't back down - ever.

:mad:

Stevy
07-25-2021, 03:20 PM
Americans really did well considering their preparations and the inclusion of 3 players. People blaming the coaching staff is understandable but they should take in the consideration of their preparations. No team in the world can prepare like the Americans and still make this game as close at it was. If they only prepared longer then upsets like this is more unlikely to happen.

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:21 PM
Popovich postgame comments as expected. No accountability. Just praising the opponent as usual. Not surprised they lost. Well obviously he loses more than he wins lately. 3-5 last 8 so why should he be surprised? An absolute clown.

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:25 PM
It’s almost like during the 4th quarter collapse instead of trying to help his team he’s thinking about his postgame hand shake with yet another victorious opposing coach who has thoroughly out coached him and what cute, friendly, submissive remark he can make to him.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 03:26 PM
Fuck you. How about the current big government loving sack of shit who raised taxes immediately after taking office?

Keep your political comments out of this thread or I'll stuff them back down your throat every time. I don't back down - ever.

:mad:

Wow wasn't expecting that, I've downright disrespected Canada's team and not gotten that response. "I'll stuff them down your throat every time" my god are you 12? :rolleyes:

But yeah that's the last and only time I'm mention US politics here, things can get heated enough without it.

edited: because I shouldn't escalate. Lets just go back to talking about how shit Pop is as US coach.

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:30 PM
How can you lead a team when you’re inherently one of the most divisive people in the country. His job is to unite individuals into a team. He does the opposite in his personal life. A great group of high IQ players like Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan, Kawhi Leonard and many other made him and not the other way around. He is a miserable pathetic figure now.
Ok that’s enough even for me. What else can I say about the guy ?

Hepcat
07-25-2021, 03:30 PM
I havenít been on for almost 2 years because this site jumped the shark for me a while a go but this was just to sweet to resist.

How did this site "jump the shark"? Sure, it's suffered from dwindling activity as has almost every other discussion forum due to competition from Facebook and all the twits going to Instagram, but what would you say happened here specifically? And hopefully you're not one of those who contributed to the decline by moving your posting to Facebook.

:confused:

Hepcat
07-25-2021, 03:32 PM
Wow wasn't expecting that lol, fuck you too lol

but yeah that's the last and only time I'm mention US politics here.

Fair enough. Incidentally I'm a (Canadian) Libertarian so none of that lot down South live up to my standards.

:)

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:37 PM
How did this site "jump the shark"? Sure, it's suffered from dwindling activity as has almost every other discussion forum due to competition from Facebook and all the twits going to Instagram, but what would you say happened here specifically? And hopefully you're not one of those who contributed to the decline by moving your posting to Facebook.

:confused:

No I just donít post anywhere anymore. Sure theirs a lot of old time posters still here many of which I have opposite opinions but still respect their knowledge on the sport greatly. Many Lithuanians, Serbians and others that everyone is familiar with. Fellow Americans as well. I just felt like the rest of society political views and agendas which were hidden have now become exposed and I want no part of it. Honestly itís probably a statement as society and the direction it is going as whole more than this specific site.
But that said the crop of new posters over the last couple of years has diminished dramatically in quality.
Then I remind my self that I was watching Olympic basketball in 1984 when they werenít even born yet and understand it better.

JGX
07-25-2021, 03:40 PM
There are nine million other places on the internet to give your opinions on American politics so let's stick to opinions on the American basketball team here. My opinion is that we suck this year.

Lillard's second-half disappearances are not going unnoticed.

Katastroika
07-25-2021, 03:42 PM
I remeber us when we played a one-ball match against them in Rio and thought whe have chances and they drove over us in the final like a train. They are still a bunch of big champions and will adapt and by far the best team but Durant is alpha and omega and his performance was a scandal. I still think if both teams reschedule and play again it will be different game. Slovenia and Spain have their chances here. Big tournament upcoming. Enjoyable.

To me this defeat comes by surprise I have to admit. I disagree this team is lile 2016. It's best since 2014.

Hepcat
07-25-2021, 03:47 PM
I said it at the time the Popovich hire was a life time achievement kind of selection. It made no sense. He was old to set in his ways and preached the antithesis of what made Usa basketball successful.

1. But previously you said that he was "trying to transform" to FIBA style. How is this indicative of Coach Popovich being set in his ways?

2. How could Coach Popovich have won so much with the Spurs if he was preaching the antithesis of what made U.S.A. basketball successful?

Not that I'm a big supporter of Coach Popovich or anything (I really don't know anything about him other than whom he's coached), it's just that I pick up on inconsistencies in people's remarks.

:confused:

Dtown
07-25-2021, 03:47 PM
There are nine million other places on the internet to give your opinions on American politics so let's stick to opinions on the American basketball team here. My opinion is that we suck this year.

Lillard's second-half disappearances are not going unnoticed.

Not to mention that last turnover which was just awful

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:48 PM
How about the coverage in the US. 5 networks are simultaneously broadcasting different Olympic events yet you had to stream it to watch it. I think surfing and skateboarding were prioritized. That off the heels of the 2019 worlds tournament that was also only available thru stream. What a joke. And Vince Carter and some guy I never heard of doing commentary was brutal. I even heard the announcer say that Gallinari plays for the Atlanta SEAHAWKS in an earlier game. No idea what was going on all game long today. I had to mute them. Not like there was a crowd anyway.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 03:50 PM
How about the coverage in the US. 5 networks are simultaneously broadcasting different Olympic events yet you had to stream it to watch it. I think surfing and skateboarding were prioritized. That off the heels of the 2019 worlds tournament that was also only available thru stream. What a joke. And Vince Carter and some guy I never heard of doing commentary was brutal. I even heard the announcer say that Gallinari plays for the Atlanta SEAHAWKS in an earlier game. No idea what was going on all game long today. I had to mute them. Not like there was a crowd anyway.

Regarding the streaming, yes that was awful, I luckily already had Peacock but seriously you have 4 networks how did they not broadcast it on any of them. Worse the game was advertised for NBC, at least say it's only on Peacock. The dumbest thing is they'll probably play it at 8 pm and claim it's live.

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:52 PM
1. But previously you said that he was "trying to transform" to FIBA style. How is this indicative of Coach Popovich being set in his ways?

2. How could Coach Popovich have won so much with the Spurs if he was preaching the antithesis of what made U.S.A. basketball successful?

Not that I'm a big supporter of Coach Popovich or anything (I really don't know anythingabout him other than who he's coached), it's just that I pick up on inconsistencies in people's remarks.

:confused:

The Spurs Popovich system is a myth. It was Tim Duncan firstly with an excellent supporting cast. After that Popovich hasn’t done anything.
USA basketball has a proven blue print. Fast paced offense and pressure defense. The opposite of Popovich style. As well as the overpassing and passing up great shots just to meet the touches quota. Another Popovich staple. Other than Duncan and Kawhi just about every other key Spurs player was an international with a certain mentality. That’s what Popovich knows and has known his entire career for the most part.
That background does not help him and is a handicap when coaching USA. And he is too rigid to adapt. And for me the worst part is the deference and outright genuflecting he shoes to foreign coaches and players goes way overboard and hurts the confidence of his own players.

usagre
07-25-2021, 03:58 PM
Regarding the streaming, yes that was awful, I luckily already had Peacock but seriously you have 4 networks how did they not broadcast it on any of them. Worse the game was advertised for NBC, at least say it's only on Peacock. The dumbest thing is they'll probably play it at 8 pm and claim it's live.

It was mind boggling. They were discussing Vince Carter’s dunk over Weis in 2000 and how Vince would order him career accomplishments including Olympic gold and dunk contest winner during crucial moments of the game.

JGX
07-25-2021, 04:01 PM
How about the coverage in the US. 5 networks are simultaneously broadcasting different Olympic events yet you had to stream it to watch it. I think surfing and skateboarding were prioritized. That off the heels of the 2019 worlds tournament that was also only available thru stream. What a joke. And Vince Carter and some guy I never heard of doing commentary was brutal. I even heard the announcer say that Gallinari plays for the Atlanta SEAHAWKS in an earlier game. No idea what was going on all game long today. I had to mute them. Not like there was a crowd anyway.

Yeah I think this is the worst Olympic coverage since probably Sydney, they are cutting back on the television coverage in favor of streaming and using men's basketball to sell Peacock subscriptions.

Vince Carter barely opened his mouth but I will still take that over Fran Fraschilla giving every player's life story and dropping the names of all his coaching friends while the game goes on in the background. For the non-US games if you want to watch them live it seems like we are stuck with the generic world feed announcers who barely know the names of the players.

Hepcat
07-25-2021, 04:02 PM
I think he meant undefeated in Olympic play. Still I do think we took Coach K for granted. Six tournaments, 5 titles, 1 loss.

I admit I canít stand the guy and everything he stands for as American. But his performance makes it so easy.

That's still Coach Popovich to which you're referring, correct?

:confused:

usagre
07-25-2021, 04:06 PM
That's still Coach Popovich to which you're referring, correct?

:confused:

Yeah not worded correctly looks like I am talking about Coach K.

usagre
07-25-2021, 04:10 PM
Another aggravating thing about the entire Popovich fiasco is that opponents who were down and out following 5 straight Gold winning world tournaments is that they are confident again. And as we all know that is extremely important aspect of performance. It will take years and obviously a different coach to get back to that spot again for the US.

Hepcat
07-25-2021, 04:13 PM
Truthfully I guess I'm still pissed off because neither Canada nor Lithuania made it (not even to 3x3) so that's making me pretty bitter about everything.

:(

usagre
07-25-2021, 04:17 PM
Truthfully I guess I'm still pissed off because neither Canada nor Lithuania made it (not even to 3x3) so that's making me pretty bitter about everything.

:(

No Lithuania, Serbia, Canada hell I would have taken Greece. A lot less juice. It used to be death, taxes and Lithuanian basketball in the Olympics. Now it’s only death, taxes and the US eliminates Spain in the Olympics, if they meet this year, there goes that too.

usagre
07-25-2021, 04:42 PM
Up 7 about 3 minutes to go in game. Up 5 about 4 minutes to go against France 2 years ago. Different players, same coach.

Dtown
07-25-2021, 04:45 PM
While I miss Lithuania, I really want to see what Luka does in this tournament. I feel if that young man is committed to the national team (and he isn't screwed over by qualification systems), that Slovenia will be a constant for the next decade.

usagre
07-25-2021, 04:48 PM
Only way this team wins this tournament is if they are up big in every Knockout game. Otherwise they will lack confidence while the opponent sensing weakness will smell blood and be super confident coupled with the ineptitude and losing mentality of Popovich will doom team USA. I think Durant and a couple of the other players have already realized that they can’t look to the bench for help and will have to win this thing on their own and in spite of their own coach.

usagre
07-25-2021, 04:52 PM
While I miss Lithuania, I really want to see what Luka does in this tournament. I feel if that young man is committed to the national team (and he isn't screwed over by qualification systems), that Slovenia will be a constant for the next decade.

His commitment hasn’t been put to the test yet. He hasn’t been passed the first round of the playoffs yet. Let’s see how committed he is for Eurobaskets and World Championships after long grueling playoff runs. I am not saying he won’t but not a sure thing yet.

usagre
07-25-2021, 05:37 PM
It’s starting to trickle out now. Players unhappy with Popovich and his coaching style. A lot more to come. This team is doomed. All other times were there was unhappiness and distrust with the coaching led to failure. 1988 John Thompson Georgetown way and 2004 Larry Brown. Marbury was almost kicked off the team during pool play. This is gonna be epic. The team has no confidence in their coaches. Not hard to understand with a 2-3 record. Keep it close Iran, stay within 2 possessions in the 4th quarter and then I would love your chances. A defeat to Iran would be priceless.

Killer Bob
07-25-2021, 06:05 PM
Booker is 100% a player Pop "wants and needs", hence his inclusion on this team and invitation to the 2019 team. It's interesting you keep tossing out NBA numbers in an attempt predict the ineffectiveness of Booker as FIBA player, while also claiming he's a poor fit for the international game. In the NBA he faces constant double teams and is engine of the Suns entire offense. Good luck guarding him when he's lined up alongside Lillard and Durant. He'll also be better defensively than he's required to be in the NBA. Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Harden, Kyrie also faced similar criticisms from International fans ahead of FIBA tournaments and they were able to adapt and be very effective in their USA roles. Booker isn't on their level but he's closer to those guys than you realize. At this point all I can do is watch the games and resume this conversation when we have more information.

First impressions about Booker?

usagre
07-25-2021, 06:06 PM
Great to see at least some of the media is rightfully ripping Popovich and his abysmal performance. The problem is that it should have happened 2 years ago when I was on an island doing it. If it had he would have been replaced and we wouldn’t be in this predicament now.

Killer Bob
07-25-2021, 06:10 PM
His commitment hasn’t been put to the test yet. He hasn’t been passed the first round of the playoffs yet. Let’s see how committed he is for Eurobaskets and World Championships after long grueling playoff runs. I am not saying he won’t but not a sure thing yet.

Do you understand that Luka has already won Eurobasket, being member of Eurobasket's first team? He was playing 19 months nonstop in Europe before coming in Nba. Something near 170 games without a serious pause. I kinda doubt that rest will be a problem.

usagre
07-25-2021, 06:13 PM
Do you understand that Luka has already won Eurobasket, being member of Eurobasket's first team? He was playing 19 months nonstop in Europe before coming in Nba. Something near 170 games without a serious pause. I kinda doubt that rest will be a problem.

And you think as he gets older and puts more miles on the tires that the commitment he showed as a teenager is comparable ?

usagre
07-25-2021, 06:20 PM
If I had to bet on it I would predict he would be like most upper echelon international players that play in the NBA when it comes to National team tournaments. Pick and choose their spots. Prioritize Olympics and play in other events less regularly.

Killer Bob
07-25-2021, 06:22 PM
And you think as he gets older and puts more miles on the tires that the commitment he showed as a teenager is comparable ?

He showed a lot of commitment in Lithuania, kinda doubt that his commitment falls in Olympics. He will be in his prime for at least 3 Olympics. Not to mention how much better is he than 4 years ago in Eurobasket. Problem for Slovenia is not Luka but Fiba's qualifications system.

Hepcat
07-25-2021, 06:48 PM
He will be in his prime for at least 3 Olympics. Not to mention how much better is he than 4 years ago in Eurobasket.

You're dreaming if you think Luka Dončić can stay in his prime nearly that long the way he's going:

https://images.eurohoops.net/2021/06/165e77f3-luka-doncic-slovenia-625x375.jpg

He's got to start paying attention to conditioning and soon.

:(

Killer Bob
07-25-2021, 06:50 PM
You're dreaming if you think Luka Dončić can stay in his prime nearly that long the way he's going:

https://images.eurohoops.net/2021/06/165e77f3-luka-doncic-slovenia-625x375.jpg

He's got to start paying attention to conditioning and soon.

:(

Till 29? He's not even in his prime.

CoachZ
07-25-2021, 08:50 PM
Great to see at least some of the media is rightfully ripping Popovich and his abysmal performance. The problem is that it should have happened 2 years ago when I was on an island doing it. If it had he would have been replaced and we wouldn’t be in this predicament now.

Gotta say, not easy to see you in this much turmoil about a coach that has never been as good as he was made out to be :)

One of the few reasons I even visit interbasket was to look out for posts of guys like you about basketball. You know where I stand on this Popovic thing. That being said, this team has no excuses even with a shitty coach. We are talking about talent everywhere. All-Pros like Durant, Lillard, a bunch of All Stars, so many excellent defensive players like Holiday, Adebayo, Green, Grant, hell even McGee. Anyway, Popovic will be blamed if this fails 100%, which is I think unfair as the players have to share in the blame as well. This is not a bunch of 20year olds in the 80s. The players need to show much more pride and attitude in fighting for that Gold, and so far I have seen shit out of that. Partly blamed on Popovic, but also the overall character of the squad. Durant was never, nor will be a leader. Booker is a kid, Tatum is a mute, Lavine is an airhead.

If they are to come together, it has to be guys like Lillard, Draymond Green, Holiday and Middleton to get them on the same page.

Yeah another thing. If somehow Pop or Kerr got food poisoning, there might be a chance that Jay Wright takes over and he is a coach I really respect and the job he is doing with Villanova :D

Darrell Armstrong
07-25-2021, 08:55 PM
First impressions about Booker?

He was worth the wait. I've read in the press that he, along with Holiday and Middleton, joined the team 18 hours before the match. I'm surprised they could even play.

Killer Bob
07-25-2021, 09:06 PM
He was worth the wait. I've read in the press that he, along with Holiday and Middleton, joined the team 18 hours before the match. I'm surprised they could even play.

Jrue looked fine enough. I guess Booker can be game changer against Iran. Do you remember his 70 points game? ;)

Darrell Armstrong
07-25-2021, 10:01 PM
Jrue looked fine enough. I guess Booker can be game changer against Iran. Do you remember his 70 points game? ;)

I don't know much about Iran, but Iran is in trouble.

madmax
07-25-2021, 10:05 PM
Jrue looked fine enough. I guess Booker can be game changer against Iran. Do you remember his 70 points game? ;)

Your level of sarcasm gets sharper with every post Bob lol

usagre
07-25-2021, 11:00 PM
@CoachZ

Good to see you post again. You know how much I value your posts. Obviously the players deserve their fair share of blame.
But it’s not a coincidence that Kevin Durant was undefeated for a decade and now can barely win a game. Popovich has just destroyed the prestige, confidence and overall mentality of USA basketball. But back to Durant, he is the only true all time great on this roster and his legacy will take the biggest hit along with Popovich if and when they fail. When Duncan in a similar position as Durant lost in ‘04 his reputation was safe because he won 3 NBA titles as the best most important player on his team following his debacle. Durant who already has a checkered legacy due to joining already championship winning teams I order to get his title will not have enough time to rehabilitate his rep.

Jazz
07-25-2021, 11:01 PM
Great to see at least some of the media is rightfully ripping Popovich and his abysmal performance. The problem is that it should have happened 2 years ago when I was on an island doing it. If it had he would have been replaced and we wouldn’t be in this predicament now.

Glad to see you posting again and hope you stick around after the Olympics are over.

I had a feeling you might reappear after the result against France and Pop quotes like this:


Team USA was defeated in the Olympics for the first time since 2004, however, this shouldn’t be big news anymore according to USA national team coach Gregg Popovich.

“When you lose a game you’re not surprised, you’re disappointed. I don’t understand the word surprise – that sort of disses the French team, so to speak, as if we were supposed to beat them by 30 or something. That’s a hell of a team. They’ve got a great coaching staff, they’ve got NBA players, they’ve got other talented players playing in Europe, they’ve been together for a long time. I don’t know why that would be a surprise. I think that’s a little bit of hubris if you think the Americans are supposed to just roll out the ball and win. I mean, we’ve got to work for it just like everybody else. And for those 40 minutes, they played better than we did. The gap in talent shrinks every year as there are more and more great players all over the world. And you need to give the French team credit for playing well. They were more consistent than we were on both ends of the court. So, it’s as simple as that, “coach Popovich said while explaining why France’s two wins over the USA in the last two games aren’t a surprise.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/1232371/gregg-popovich-the-gap-in-talent-shrinks-every-year/
:D

usagre
07-25-2021, 11:12 PM
@Jazz

Thanks bro.
Coach K would also similarly compliment and build up the opponents. But that was after beating them. This stuff from Popovich got old 2 years ago. And another thing is I can’t prove this but I would bet the farm that behind closed doors to his team Coach K would be singing a different tune. Yeah respect your opponent but at the same time building up his players by reminding his players who they were as well. I just dont see Popovich doing that. He probably has his team brainwashed believing that the opponent are just as good as his own players.

Killer Bob
07-25-2021, 11:14 PM
Your level of sarcasm gets sharper with every post Bob lol

I will take that as compliment, knowing from whom it comes. ;) Tobey says hello.

Killer Bob
07-25-2021, 11:15 PM
I don't know much about Iran, but Iran is in trouble.

I believe they are.

usagre
07-25-2021, 11:19 PM
No surprise just disappointment. What a dick! Some anger and being downright pissed off is necessary. Not surprised ? Should be downright shocked at all the loses you buffoon Popovich. But like I said he’s too busy genuflecting to his opponents and has accepted losing. I remember the scowl on Coach K’s face when the team would struggle during games.
Popovich gives you nothing. Just excuses and no accountability.

usagre
07-25-2021, 11:28 PM
Blowing a 7pt lead with 3 minutes to pay, that’s nothing. Remember 5 point lead with 20 seconds to play in game 6 of the 2013 NBA finals ? LMAO. I’ve been watching the NBA finals since 1983 and that’s the only time a coach actually cost his team a championship.

Jazz
07-25-2021, 11:57 PM
Of course he was part of 2004 and 2006 teams, which forced USA to take Fiba competitions seriously again. ;)

Classic Bob right there. :D

usagre
07-26-2021, 12:27 AM
For the good of the team Popovich should get double technicals and get tossed in the opening minutes of every remaining game. He’s known for stunts like that like when he purposely got ejected in a he first half of a game with the Spurs so assistant Becky Hammon can be the first woman to coach an NBA game. But that was an selfish self serving move anyway. It was more to feed his ego of what a great guy he is to do something like that rather than actually give Hammon the opportunity to coach. Funny how Becky Hammon is close with Popovich. Here’s a woman who became a Russian citizen so she can play against the US in the Olympics. She and Pop have a lot in common.
By the way isn’t it funny or actually appropriate that Jrue Holiday was the USA’s best player. He literally has spent 5 minutes with Popovich. It’s all downhill from here Jrue.

usagre
07-26-2021, 12:56 AM
Interesting article by Ian O’Connor of NY Post about Popovich. Turns out that he was runner up to coach K in 2008 for the Olympic job. Thankfully Colangelo made the right choice back then. His comment was that “he didn’t feel it from Pop”. He should have remembered his initial gut feeling and not handed him the job this time either. Also interesting how Popovich complained to friends about Coach K continuing on as the head man in 2012 and 2016 by saying “I didn’t know this was a lifetime position”.

usagre
07-26-2021, 01:01 AM
One should not wonder why Popovich is not surprised when team USA loses. That’s all he’s accustomed to in World events.
2002 assistant at Worlds lost in quarters
2004 assistant Olympics lost in semis
2019 worlds head lost in quarters
2021 Olympics head 2-3 so far including exhibitions.

If I had his pedigree I would be surprised if we actually won.

judasmartel
07-26-2021, 01:15 AM
Interesting article by Ian OíConnor of NY Post about Popovich. Turns out that he was runner up to coach K in 2008 for the Olympic job. Thankfully Colangelo made the right choice back then. His comment was that ďhe didnít feel it from PopĒ. He should have remembered his initial gut feeling and not handed him the job this time either. Also interesting how Popovich complained to friends about Coach K continuing on as the head man in 2012 and 2016 by saying ďI didnít know this was a lifetime positionĒ.

Coach K earned it, Pop did not. Pop is only really good at the NBA, never at FIBA. And even in the NBA he has been rusting.

usagre
07-26-2021, 01:15 AM
30 years of NBA/USA teams and a total of 14 losses.
Popovich has been associated with 13 of them.
You can’t make this stuff up.

ChuckDiesel2
07-26-2021, 01:16 AM
First impressions about Booker?

Looked horrible. Donít know why Pop played him as much as he did. Hurt the team.

usagre
07-26-2021, 01:52 AM
I found a way out for Popovich while at the same time catering to his enormous ego. He should fake some health issues very reasonable since he is in his 70’s and go home. If the US fails without him which they probably would since they’ve wasted a month under him he can say “see it wasn’t my fault!’. And on the other hand If they get their shit together and win it he can say they rallied and did it for their beloved coach. Anything please just get that grumpy pathetic loser off the team please!

ChuckDiesel2
07-26-2021, 02:12 AM
Truly think Popovich would be happier coaching Croatia, and Team USA would be better served. He has so much reverence for international basketball that he makes his team play with a hand tied behind their backs. Such a noble diplomat.

Hepcat
07-26-2021, 03:26 AM
I will take that as compliment, knowing from whom it comes. ;) Tobey says hello.

Madmax and I are grateful you translated Mike Tobey's greeting from Slovenian.

:)

Hepcat
07-26-2021, 03:40 AM
Truly think Popovich would be happier coaching Croatia, and Team USA would be better served.

Hmmmm. Not that I'm any kind of fan of Team U.S.A., but have you ever considered whether Gregg Popovich and a team of pampered NBA stars might deserve each other?

:confused:

reamily
07-26-2021, 05:52 AM
This isn't opponents improving, no coach even from our local high school level would not make this version of us team have a scoring drought...

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 07:04 AM
Madmax and I are grateful you translated Mike Tobey's greeting from Slovenian.

:)

I have a feeling that Luka&co., especially Luka, was very gentle with you. ;)

Darrell Armstrong
07-26-2021, 07:47 AM
Not to shift away the blame from Popovich, as certainly the game plan, substitution patterns, and play calling haven't helped; but his hiring is just another one in a long string of awful decisions from team officials. Lack of accountability, seemingly fueled by arrogance (you don't have to sweat the small details, or put up the hard work when you are going to dominate anyway on talent alone) is the real cancer here. Any other medal-contender federation messes up a preparation before the Olympics like the USAB did, heads roll immediately.

But you see what's happening: blame the coach, blame the stars that didn't show up. When the real problem is the do-as-you-please culture that has slowly taken over the USAB since 2008. Players can back out at the last minute and there's little repercussions. Coaches can do an appalling job and they are called back the next year. Play can be average and no measures are taken as long as they bring back the gold. And it has reached a point that, even after a resounding loss in the World Cup, nothing has been done to improve. Because, you know, the US only has to show up with the best players in the world. Simple as that. Are we talkin' 'bout practice?

Hepcat
07-26-2021, 02:32 PM
I have a feeling that Luka&co., especially Luka, was very gentle with you. ;)

We'll probably be able to pronounce upon that after the medal ceremony. Did Lithuania suck this year or was Lithuania simply unlucky enough to be facing a team that was just too good?

So far the prevailing sentiment in the Lithuanian forum is that the coach really sucked. Other than that there's a lot of disagreement concerning what needs to be "fixed".

:confused:

Hepcat
07-26-2021, 02:34 PM
Lack of accountability, seemingly fueled by arrogance (you don't have to sweat the small details, or put up the hard work when you are going to dominate anyway on talent alone) is the real cancer here. Any other medal-contender federation messes up a preparation before the Olympics like the USAB did, heads roll immediately.

But you see what's happening: blame the coach, blame the stars that didn't show up. When the real problem is the do-as-you-please culture that has slowly taken over the USAB since 2008.... Because, you know, the US only has to show up with the best players in the world. Simple as that. Are we talkin' 'bout practice?

I agree.

:)

Killer Bob
07-26-2021, 03:14 PM
We'll probably be able to pronounce upon that after the medal ceremony. Did Lithuania suck this year or was Lithuania simply unlucky enough to be facing a team that was just too good?

So far the prevailing sentiment in the Lithuanian forum is that the coach really sucked. Other than that there's a lot of disagreement concerning what needs to be "fixed".

:confused:

I don't know about your coach, but the ease how Slovenia is scoring was previously seen only by good Americans teams in Fiba competitions. Add to that structure of your team, best players bigs, it's not that easy to do something. Luka even had poor shooting day for 3 in Lithuania, he looked much better today. I will say that Lithuania was clearly unlucky, because even Serbia was much worse team that Slovenia in that moment.

It's kinda obvious where problem lies. Your guards are not good enough and Sabonis junior is nowhere near as good as his father was. Talks how Sedekerskis could have been saviour are just laughable, no one is stoping Luka in this form. Clippers have the best wing defenders in Nba and they couldn't do anything.

ChuckDiesel2
07-26-2021, 05:59 PM
Not to shift away the blame from Popovich, as certainly the game plan, substitution patterns, and play calling haven't helped; but his hiring is just another one in a long string of awful decisions from team officials. Lack of accountability, seemingly fueled by arrogance (you don't have to sweat the small details, or put up the hard work when you are going to dominate anyway on talent alone) is the real cancer here. Any other medal-contender federation messes up a preparation before the Olympics like the USAB did, heads roll immediately.

But you see what's happening: blame the coach, blame the stars that didn't show up. When the real problem is the do-as-you-please culture that has slowly taken over the USAB since 2008. Players can back out at the last minute and there's little repercussions. Coaches can do an appalling job and they are called back the next year. Play can be average and no measures are taken as long as they bring back the gold. And it has reached a point that, even after a resounding loss in the World Cup, nothing has been done to improve. Because, you know, the US only has to show up with the best players in the world. Simple as that. Are we talkin' 'bout practice?

Your timeline is off. When Jerry Colangelo took over in 05 he understood and emphasized the necessity of building a “program” instead of a hastily slapped together All-Star team. He required a three year commitment, and the core of the 06 team played together in 07 at the FIBA Americas. By the time 08 rolled around they’d had three years together in Coach K’s system. That went out the window for some reason.

reamily
07-27-2021, 06:42 AM
Us is so lucky that they didnt play a olympict qualifying tournament as they will stumble in one of games like canada did

Darrell Armstrong
07-27-2021, 08:04 AM
Your timeline is off. When Jerry Colangelo took over in 05 he understood and emphasized the necessity of building a “program” instead of a hastily slapped together All-Star team. He required a three year commitment, and the core of the 06 team played together in 07 at the FIBA Americas. By the time 08 rolled around they’d had three years together in Coach K’s system. That went out the window for some reason.

It's not off. I said slowly taken over since 2008. 2008 was the peak year for USAB. I clearly remember Kobe Bryant playing in the Americas Championship. But after the success of the Redeem Team they discarded the concepts that made that redemption possible, bit by bit. And now they're back in 2004-like chaos.

Hepcat
07-27-2021, 06:27 PM
alks how Sedekerskis could have been saviour are just laughable....

Truth. Tadas Sedekerskis is soft and lacks the take charge attitude he should have given his physique. Lithuania may have benefitted though from the in-your-face physical toughness against Dončić that Jonas Mačiulis would have provided but Mačiulis wasn't even invited to camp probably because Coach Maskoliūnas thought that Mačiulis was too old to help the team.

:confused:

Killer Bob
07-27-2021, 07:51 PM
Truth. Tadas Sedekerskis is soft and lacks the take charge attitude he should have given his physique. Lithuania may have benefitted though from the in-your-face physical toughness against Dončić that Jonas Mačiulis would have provided but Mačiulis wasn't even invited to camp probably because Coach Maskoliūnas thought that Mačiulis was too old to help the team.

:confused:

No. It wouldn't change anything. Lithuania is just the wrong team to play against Luka. Clippers benched Zubac, because he was destroyed by Luka every time when he was in the court. Valanciunas and Sabonis cannot play together and Valanciunas probably shouldn't even play, when Luka is on the court. The problem is that Lithuania hasn't other players to step up instead of them. Theoretically Grigonis should be able to do much more.

Hepcat
07-27-2021, 09:25 PM
Not Marius Grigonis. Since about midway in the 1Q, it was Arnas Butkevičius who had primary coverage responsibility on Dončić. Over Butkevičius' 21:56 of playing time, Lithuania was actually a +2. Butkevičius was therefore doing something very right since Slovenia was a +15 during Dončić's 33:42 of playing time:

Lithuania- Slovenia Boxscore (https://www.fiba.basketball/oqt/lithuania/2020/game/0407/Lithuania-Slovenia#|tab=boxscore)

Lithuania's big guns all had major negative +/- numbers and of course Lithuania lost.

:(

ChuckDiesel2
07-27-2021, 09:50 PM
It's not off. I said slowly taken over since 2008. 2008 was the peak year for USAB. I clearly remember Kobe Bryant playing in the Americas Championship. But after the success of the Redeem Team they discarded the concepts that made that redemption possible, bit by bit. And now they're back in 2004-like chaos.

Youíre right, I misread that as ď2006.Ē My mistake.

Killer Bob
07-27-2021, 09:56 PM
Not Marius Grigonis. Since about midway in the 1Q, it was Arnas Butkevičius who had primary coverage responsibility on Dončić. Over Butkevičius' 21:56 of playing time, Lithuania was actually a +2. Butkevičius was therefore doing something very right since Slovenia was a +15 during Dončić's 33:42 of playing time:

Lithuania- Slovenia Boxscore (https://www.fiba.basketball/oqt/lithuania/2020/game/0407/Lithuania-Slovenia#|tab=boxscore)

Lithuania's big guns all had major negative +/- numbers and of course Lithuania lost.

:(

I meant Grigonis as major offensive weapon. Valanciunas is more or less unplayable against heavy pick&roll teams and Sabonis very limited player. But as I said, bad luck for Lithuania, they faced wrong team in wrong time. You should blame your neighbour KP. ;)

Darrell Armstrong
07-27-2021, 09:58 PM
You’re right, I misread that as “2006.” My mistake.

No worries.

JGX
07-28-2021, 05:27 AM
Facing the slowest opponents our guys have played since middle school covers up a multitude of sins, but it's nice to see the US racking up the points the way a US team should.

Darrell Armstrong
07-28-2021, 07:30 AM
Iran is now likely ruing their bad luck with the draw. If only they could have been the first team to face Team USA... Now they're eliminated from the tournament, barring an unbelievable combination of results.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 08:35 AM
Iran is now likely ruing their bad luck with the draw. If only they could have been the first team to face Team USA... Now they're eliminated from the tournament, barring an unbelievable combination of results.

Iran is far the worst team in Olympics, so they couldn't expect anything else. Losing with Czech was game over already.

Darrell Armstrong
07-28-2021, 08:56 AM
Iran is far the worst team in Olympics, so they couldn't expect anything else. Losing with Czech was game over already.

I know they couldn't expect to advance, but now they reach the final day of group play with nothing to play for. With a bit more luck they could have still some small options to make the game at least worthy to be played.

Dtown
07-28-2021, 10:50 AM
I want to comment on the game, but honestly it's Iran. Apart from maybe South Korea they're likely the worst team in the tournament. Blow out Czech Republic then I'll be happy.

I will agree Iran probably would have put up a better showing against the US if they played them first, or the US had held on against France, they had no shot against an angry/embarrassed US team.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 11:23 AM
I know they couldn't expect to advance, but now they reach the final day of group play with nothing to play for. With a bit more luck they could have still some small options to make the game at least worthy to be played.

Their most important game was their first. If they had won that, they might at least try to lose with smaller difference against USA. They basically didn't have anything to play for today too.

Darrell Armstrong
07-28-2021, 11:40 AM
Their most important game was their first. If they had won that, they might at least try to lose with smaller difference against USA. They basically didn't have anything to play for today too.

Why not? A win today would have meant something. A lot, to be honest. A win against France is meaningless, they will be going home anyway.

Darrell Armstrong
07-28-2021, 11:42 AM
I want to comment on the game, but honestly it's Iran. Apart from maybe South Korea they're likely the worst team in the tournament. Blow out Czech Republic then I'll be happy.

I will agree Iran probably would have put up a better showing against the US if they played them first, or the US had held on against France, they had no shot against an angry/embarrassed US team.

I know you mean Japan, the hosts, but can't pass up the opportunity to say you have channeled your inner Byron Scott here ;)

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 11:47 AM
Why not? A win today would have meant something. A lot, to be honest. A win against France is meaningless, they will be going home anyway.

What win? Iran had 0% chances to win against USA. Their win would have been the biggest surprise in Olympics history. Their only chance was game 1 and even if they have had won that, I doubt very much that would have been enough.

usagre
07-28-2021, 12:08 PM
We beat Iran by a thousand how wonderful! When’s the parade ? It took the tenth game that counted for a Popovich team to crack 100 points. What an embarrassment. I have serious doubts if they will reach that mark again and with the offensive fire power that this team possesses that’s a sad commentary. I’ll give the overrated blowhard some credit, I actually agreed and liked his starting lineup. Durant and Tatum is redundant. I felt USA played better in ‘16 when Durant and Carmelo were separated and Paul George was in there. I like Booker in there and Levine off the bench. Holiday starting is a no brainer because of his defense and the fact that Lillard is not a true point guard. Popovich most likely will lead this team into the knockout round having to win against 3 quality teams. He hasn’t beaten any in his 2 tries as coach so far. Greece with Giannis is debatable but they couldn’t even advance so I won’t even count that.

Dtown
07-28-2021, 07:19 PM
I know you mean Japan, the hosts, but can't pass up the opportunity to say you have channeled your inner Byron Scott here ;)

I honestly had a brain fart and forgot how many Asian teams were in the tournament, because Japan's probably better than Iran too.

Dtown
07-28-2021, 07:23 PM
It's the New York Post so take what they say with a grain of salt, but word is there's unhappiness on Team USA regarding Pop's style of offense.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/27/team-usa-players-frustrated-with-head-coach-gregg-popovich/



It seems plausible, Team USA should be a fast paced team that puts up 100 points a night but that's not Pop's style.

usagre
07-28-2021, 07:55 PM
Great to see Draymond Green tell Damian Lillard to be himself and shoot the ball and not try to conform to some misguided system. This is USA’s best hope to salvage the tournament and restore what USA basketball used to mean pre 2019 and the pre smug bully era. Or more appropriately error. I think the guys are starting to figure this out. They have to tune out their coach if they want to win Gold. I mean if the final possession against Nigeria doesn’t illustrate everything I don’t know what does.

greenarcher
07-28-2021, 08:01 PM
The Czechs could barely defend the French. I doubt they will be able to defend Team USA.

usagre
07-28-2021, 08:03 PM
USA 23 point favorites against Czech Republic. Looks about right. Yet the fool on the bench would tell you that you shouldn’t be surprised if the US loses just disappointed. Just like being favored by 11-12 points was the appropriate spread against France. Yet that clown would have you believe it was a toss up or pick em heading into the game. And watching Nigeria perform in these Olympics only makes that first exhibition game loss even more inconceivable.

usagre
07-28-2021, 08:33 PM
If the US fails to win Gold another damning aspect that will further point completely to Popovich’s incompetence will be how precipitous the drop occurred. At least the 2002-2006 low period had its origins in 2000 when a strong squad struggled and was almost eliminated in the semis. In contrast before Popovich took over team USA was peaking. It was now routinely winning World Championships with B level teams and cruising through Olympic knockout rounds without competitive games.
Enter Popovich and I still can’t fathom how quickly everything has changed.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 08:53 PM
If the US fails to win Gold another damning aspect that will further point completely to Popovich’s incompetence will be how precipitous the drop occurred. At least the 2002-2006 low period had its origins in 2000 when a strong squad struggled and was almost eliminated in the semis. In contrast before Popovich took over team USA was peaking. It was now routinely winning World Championships with B level teams and cruising through Olympic knockout rounds without competitive games.
Enter Popovich and I still can’t fathom how quickly everything has changed.

To be honest some things has changed in last years. USA super stars has gotten old and suddenly the best players in Nba are not Americans any more.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:02 PM
Yeah that argument would work if they’re was a world or European team that would combine the handful of great non US players. But when they are spread out it minimizes what you are talking about. Evan Fournier is a middling NBA player but against Popovich in ‘19 and ‘21 you would think he was an All NBA player. And your US players getting old argument doesn’t hold water either. On paper this squad is very comparable to 2014 and 2016 that won both tournaments with ease. It’s Popovich and the mentality he has brought to team USA in contrast to Coach K as well as his playing style.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 09:13 PM
Yeah that argument would work if they’re was a world or European team that would combine the handful of great non US players. But when they are spread out it minimizes what you are talking about. Evan Fournier is a middling NBA player but against Popovich in ‘19 and ‘21 you would think he was an All NBA player. And your US players getting old argument doesn’t hold water either. On paper this squad is very comparable to 2014 and 2016 that won both tournaments with ease. It’s Popovich and the mentality he has brought to team USA in contrast to Coach K as well as his playing style.

My point is that things are changing in basketball. Not only that Giannis, Jokic, Luka, Embiid, Ayton...are all very young, Nba teams never had so many international players in their rosters. I agree that roster wise USA team is still far the best, but players like Lavine, Booker...don't exactly look unbeatable.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:14 PM
To be honest some things has changed in last years. USA super stars has gotten old and suddenly the best players in Nba are not Americans any more.

Just to further nullify your argument, try this exercise. Draft every individual player strictly on ability in this tournament. 80% of top 10 is American. Excluding Luka and Gobert. Can argue Rubio. But that’s it.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:16 PM
My point is that things are changing in basketball. Not only that Giannis, Jokic, Luka, Embiid, Ayton...are all very young, Nba teams never had so many international players in their rosters. I agree that roster wise USA team is still far the best, but players like Lavine, Booker...don't exactly look unbeatable.

Absolutely. I agree about the changing NBA and the prominence of foreigners and that the US is not unbeatable. But that does not explain 7-3 overall with one 100+ offensive outburst and 12-6 overall record.
Thatís ridiculous.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 09:20 PM
Just to further nullify your argument, try this exercise. Draft every individual player strictly on ability in this tournament. 80% of top 10 is American. Excluding Luka and Gobert. Can argue Rubio. But that’s it.

Ability of playing good team basketball under Fiba rules? Or ability to win 1:1 game?

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 09:25 PM
Absolutely. I agree about the changing NBA and the prominence of foreigners and that the US is not unbeatable. But that does not explain 7-3 overall with one 100+ offensive outburst and 12-6 overall record.
That’s ridiculous.

I didn't say that Pop isn't partly guilty, but on the other hand, do you believe that Slovenia would have beaten Argentina, if Luka was playing like KD. Would have France beating USA, if Fournier was shooting like shooters from USA? Pop might be wrong coach, but stars should play much better no matter what.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:26 PM
I don’t know the rules they were playing for decade pre Popovich and went 88-1.
Yeah those rules.

Shawshank
07-28-2021, 09:26 PM
Just to further nullify your argument, try this exercise. Draft every individual player strictly on ability in this tournament. 80% of top 10 is American. Excluding Luka and Gobert. Can argue Rubio. But thatís it.

Americans here commenting and in podcast too judging fiba game only by nba season.Thats not objective.

In fiba rules,ball,court size,contact allowence is diffrent compared to nba.

Such nba average players like P.Mills,E.Fournier,both Bogdanovich with nt jersey looks like nba all stars tournament after tournament in fiba .There skillsets is better suited in fiba and in most cases played simply better in those tournaments than real nba stars like Jokic or Giannis or Gobert.

Fournier is killing not only Usa he does that to every other NT too same story with P.Mills.

Everybody who follows fiba year after year knows 2 best France players since 2017 in fiba tournaments is Decolo and Fournier not Gobert.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:28 PM
I didn't say that Pop isn't partly guilty, but on the other hand, do you believe that Slovenia would have beaten Argentina, if Luka was playing like KD. Would have France beating USA, if Fournier was shooting like shooters from USA? Pop might be wrong coach, but stars should play much better no matter what.

Yes players are to blame as well. They have to overcome the handicap of horrible coaching.
They have the ability.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:32 PM
Gobert was the deciding factor in eliminating the US two years ago.
And have I missed something ? Have FIBA rules changed since 2019 ? If so which ones ?
The only change that has led to a 12-6 US record from 88-1 is Popovich not the size of the court.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 09:33 PM
Yes players are to blame as well. They have to overcome the handicap of horrible coaching.
They have the ability.

This argument looks very similar to argument how Sekulic is great coach. In the end is all on players.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:38 PM
This argument looks very similar to argument how Sekulic is great coach. In the end is all on players.

Nobody believes that more than me. I have always minimized the impact of coaching in basketball when you’re talking about the cream of the crop talent. That’s why NBA coaches are borderline irrelevant. But saying that is one thing, it is completely another when you handicap your team and place obstacles that shouldn’t be there. A horrible coach can effect a team a lot more than a great coach can help a team.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 09:42 PM
Nobody believes that more than me. I have always minimized the impact of coaching in basketball when you’re talking about the cream of the crop talent. That’s why NBA coaches are borderline irrelevant. But saying that is one thing, it is completely another when you handicap your team and place obstacles that shouldn’t be there. A horrible coach can effect a team a lot more than a great coach can help a team.

Then we basically agree. If Luka can make a joke of a roster scoring 120 points, than KD, Dame, Tatum...should play better than they played against France, no matter what Pop does.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:54 PM
Then we basically agree. If Luka can make a joke of a roster scoring 120 points, than KD, Dame, Tatum...should play better than they played against France, no matter what Pop does.

Yes. They have to tune him out and basically ignore his directions and use their instincts.
But thatís easier said than done. In the NBA when a scenario such as this occurs the players donít have to put up with it and the coach is history. Here unfortunately thatís not an option. So it will be a unique situation for them.

usagre
07-28-2021, 09:57 PM
Imagine the Slovenian coach directing Luke not to have the ball in his hands as much. Lower his usage and actually not fully take advantage of his abilities ? Would it be on Luka to obey or do the opposite ? It can get tricky.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 10:03 PM
Imagine the Slovenian coach directing Luke not to have the ball in his hands as much. Lower his usage and actually not fully take advantage of his abilities ? Would it be on Luka to obey or do the opposite ? It can get tricky.

I have watched both games and Luka looked like MJ in his prime, on the other hand KD&co. looked like rookies in summer league. My wild guess is that Luka with Pop and USA would have destroyed France. ;) The biggest problem for USA is not having real Pg. Put in CP3 or LeBron and we wouldn't have this conversation.

usagre
07-28-2021, 10:05 PM
Kevin Durant coming off of a monster playoff series against Milwaukee and a pedigree pretty much unmatched in FIBA play all of a sudden looks lost out there 6 games with Popovich. It’s on him to turn it around but the change is all about Popovich.
Durant has to adapt and overcome that loser coach.

usagre
07-28-2021, 10:07 PM
They didnít have a true point guard in 2014 or 2016 and it didnít matter then.Chris Paul was the last true point guard coach K had and that was in Ď12.
So I am not buying that. You can look all you want but it all comes back and starts with Popovich.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 10:09 PM
Like I said, USA is still first favourite for me. It would have been much easier, if they had brought some Pgs instead of scorers.

usagre
07-28-2021, 10:15 PM
Like I said, USA is still first favourite for me. It would have been much easier, if they had brought some Pgs instead of scorers.

They can still win it all. But it would have to be in spite of their coaching. And no team should ever have to do that.
They might still be the individual favorite but unlike other years when they were clear favorites over the entire field, I think the field is a solid favorite over them in this tournament thanks of course to you know who.

usagre
07-28-2021, 10:25 PM
It would have been much easier, if they had brought some Pgs instead of scorers.

Chris Paul had committed to play even in the middle of the playoff run. Then he got Covid and was surprisingly dropped from the team. He came back and played a week or so later so I don’t understand his exclusion. There’s a story there I am sure.
Paul is a head strong player that would have clashed with Popovich’s nonsense is my guess. And the Trae Young exclusion is another story that has Popovich and the style of play he intended this US team to play written all over it.

usagre
07-28-2021, 10:28 PM
Again the last time the coach of the team was the story and not the players was 2004 with Larry Brown and his right hand man Gregg Popovich. That didn’t end well.

Katastroika
07-28-2021, 10:44 PM
They didnít have a true point guard in 2014 or 2016 and it didnít matter then.Chris Paul was the last true point guard coach K had and that was in Ď12.
So I am not buying that. You can look all you want but it all comes back and starts with Popovich.

You've had Curry and Harden and if I recall properly D-Rose in 2014. Kyrie and Kyle Lowry in 2016. Honestly I think that's pretty stacked for playmaking position. I get your point, though. But that's really complaining on very high level for the rest of the world ;)

usagre
07-28-2021, 10:49 PM
You've had Curry and Harden and if I recall properly D-Rose in 2014. Kyrie and Kyle Lowry in 2016. Honestly I think that's pretty stacked for playmaking position. I get your point, though. But that's really complaining on very high level for the rest of the world ;)

Lowry is the closest thing to a true point guard from that list and he was the backup on the 2016 not a starter. Curry is not a true point guard and he actually played off the ball in Ď14. The 2014 version of Harden had not yet become the version we know now. He was more of a true 2 guard back then. Rose also is not a true point guard but regardless coming off injury he was a horror show on Ď14 team. Probably worst player on that team. Kyrie and Lillard are pretty much identical players.
But I hear you the US does have an embarrassment of riches but I was just combating Bobís point about this team lacking something at the point that other teams had.

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 10:54 PM
Lowry is the closest thing to a true point guard from that list and he was the backup on the 2016 not a starter. Curry is not a true point guard and he actually played off the ball in ‘14. The 2014 version of Harden had not yet become the version we know now. He was more of a true 2 guard back then. Rose also is not a true point guard but regardless coming off injury he was a horror show on ‘14 team. Probably worst player on that team. Kyrie and Lillard are pretty much identical players.
But I hear you the US does have an embarrassment of riches but I was just combating Bob’s point about this team lacking something at the point that other teams had.

Sure it lacks. Almost everyone named above is class better than what you have now. You have many chuckers, but nobody to be floor general. KD is one of the best scorers in the history but he never was that.

usagre
07-28-2021, 10:58 PM
Sure it lacks. Almost everyone named above is class better than what you have now. You have many chuckers, but nobody to be floor general. KD is one of the best scorers in the history but he never was that.

Explain to me how you can come up with that ?
Kyrie was the primary point guard in 2016. In your eyes he’s more of a playmaker than Lillard ? 2016 defines what you are describing for this team. Carmelo, Durant, Klay Thompson and Kyrie were the leading minute players.
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing ?

Killer Bob
07-28-2021, 11:07 PM
Explain to me how you can come up with that ?
Kyrie was the primary point guard in 2016. In your eyes he’s more of a playmaker than Lillard ? 2016 defines what you are describing for this team. Carmelo, Durant, Klay Thompson and Kyrie were the leading minute players.
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing ?

I said almost everyone named above. I don't remember how 2016 team played, so it's hard to argue. Maybe prime Durant&co. didn't need pg. This team needs it and Dame is not one, but he for sure is capable of beating opponents from half court line.

Maybe we can finish with observation, that you don't like coach and I don't like half of your players.

usagre
07-28-2021, 11:12 PM
They proved that in 2016 they didn’t need true playmaker in that sense. This team is similarly constructed when it comes to that position so I can’t use that as an excuse. And if you’re saying that Durant has somehow dramatically dropped in ability from 2016 you must not have watched his playoff series this year.