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Dtown
02-09-2020, 10:25 PM
Surprised there wasn't a topic about this yet, with games starting in less than two weeks.

Eurobasket is (unfortunately) going the World Cup route with qualifying. The good news is qualification should be relatively simple for most teams (just don't finish last in your group), the bad news is none of the windows are going to allow NBA/Euroleague players. So are we going to see a team like Slovenia screwed over again?

Katastroika
02-12-2020, 02:32 PM
It's Eurobasket 2021, bro :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_at_the_EuroBasket_2021_qualification

Nice one of Serbia. Only disturbing names to me are Raduljica and Rebic (who seems to play a good season in Russia, though). All most talented (and available) players are there. Maybe Dusan Ristic who plays excellent in Russia should have been called up but I suppose that players like him don't fit in Kokoskov's philosophy.

Katastroika
02-21-2020, 11:59 AM
Serbia will be fun to watch with Kokoskov. I liked what I saw. Kravic should be considered for summer's campaign. A model of a modern player that exploded this year in ACB.

Anyways, this qualifiers are - again - a catastrophic move of FIBA. Total useless.

Toruko
02-21-2020, 02:47 PM
This FIBA - EL dispute could activate new step ups in the nt. Greece for example called Kalaitzakis (the good one) for the first time to the nt. Also Turkey has an 99 born Sehmus Hazer who plays with 10 points average in the cl and 7 points in turkish league

Victorious
02-21-2020, 08:29 PM
A surprising but memorable victory for the Netherlands against Turkey in Turkey. The last time Holland beat Turkey was 34 years ago. The Netherlands are a decent team. Perhaps better than one might think. They are performing nicely during the last 5-6 years and definitely deserve a spot in the next Eurobasket.

Katastroika
02-21-2020, 09:02 PM
Agree about Netherlands.

What happened to Lithuania? Their roster is everything but weak. I didn't watch the game but they got toasted in Belgium. Very surprising to me in that dimension.

Toruko
02-21-2020, 09:07 PM
A lack of being able to create. We have to solve this play maker problem. The selection of the players is very weird. Played to one dimensional without attacking the rim. The roles of the players are not clear at all. We desperately need Bugrahan Tuncers creation who is doing a great job against Bayern.

We have to be prepared for surprises in these Windows. LTU is being dominated, Slovenia lost, Turkey too...

Victorious
02-22-2020, 11:09 AM
A lack of being able to create. We have to solve this play maker problem. The selection of the players is very weird. Played to one dimensional without attacking the rim. The roles of the players are not clear at all. We desperately need Bugrahan Tuncers creation who is doing a great job against Bayern.

We have to be prepared for surprises in these Windows. LTU is being dominated, Slovenia lost, Turkey too...

I think the Netherlands are pretty good. They tend to be somewhat unstable, but they were able to pose problems to many good teams in recent years. Turkey beat them in overtime at the Acropolis tournament a few years back. But the Netherlands seem somewhat stronger and more experienced now. Perhaps with this new coach they are more stable as well. Also, as I said before, Turkey basically consists of its 3 NBA players. Only with them can they compete against the better teams. But you keenly tried to refute me. The Turkish players on yesterdays roster are not bad, but the point of the matter is that other countries also tend to develop players at that level nowadays. You need either protagonists in the EL or NBA players to shine.


Agree about Netherlands.

What happened to Lithuania? Their roster is everything but weak. I didn't watch the game but they got toasted in Belgium. Very surprising to me in that dimension.

Countries like Belgium have become increasing better over the last decade, while Lithuania is nowhere near the level of Saras, Siskauskas, Javtokas etc. time. We tend to look too much at the jerseys. I don't think Lithuania has the luxury nowadays to loose a few key EL players. We should realize that the basketball map is changing. Germany is very close to the top countries, and Belgium along with the Netherlands are close to where Germany was a decade ago.

Toruko
02-22-2020, 02:43 PM
I think the Netherlands are pretty good. They tend to be somewhat unstable, but they were able to pose problems to many good teams in recent years. Turkey beat them in overtime at the Acropolis tournament a few years back. But the Netherlands seem somewhat stronger and more experienced now. Perhaps with this new coach they are more stable as well.

Sorry but this is nonsense. The most important things in bb are having clear roles, a balanced skill set and playing together. The NL team scored just with one guy who plays in Turkey for a bottom team. Turkey was thanks to his coach catastrophically prepared otherwise Turkey should be able to beat NL with any team. This team is never be able to beat any serious team in Europe.


Turkey basically consists of its 3 NBA players. Only with them can they compete against the better teams. But you keenly tried to refute me. The Turkish players on yesterdays roster are not bad, but the point of the matter is that other countries also tend to develop players at that level nowadays. You need either protagonists in the EL or NBA players to shine.


I never claimed to beat top 15 teams in the world without top four players but NL must be beaten with any turkish roster.

Yesterdays reasons for loss were:
- lack of prep time
- bad roster selection
- bad mental prep
- lack of play maker (Tuncer was with Efes because Larkin is injured)
- no clear roles

And it is obvious that Turkey needs its main NBA player + Larkin. The other ones are solid role player but they dont know how to carry a team. The most worrying point is the defensive effort since the wc 19. The coach is doing a very bad job.

Katastroika
02-22-2020, 04:46 PM
Maybe you are a little to overconfident about Turkish players' quality. I wouldn't go so far to call Serbia B a favourite against Netherland. Not by any means.

Picek
02-22-2020, 04:46 PM
Mateo Drežnjak made a debut in an NT official game yesterday against Sweden and was our best player yesterday.
to those who haven't heard about him make a note and remember the name.
he is only 20 years old but made a huge improvement from last season.
he is playing for Široki in ABA 2 league and is their best player.
the kid has it all.
pretty strong body, good ball handling for his size, great defense, good court vision, needs to work on his shooting but has a good shooting mechanic to start with so it should be easy to upgrade.
he will have a good career.

Roko returned to the starting PG position at the age of 36.
and even with 36 and all his deficiencies he is our best PG.
he needs to be respected for everything he did for our NT during his career.
had a good game yesterday, wasn't holding the ball in his hands for too long.

I'm not an optimist when it comes to Mršić being a head coach of our NT and his overall coaching abilities but defense looked solid. swedes started the game 1/21 FG.
at moments even our attack was unexpectedly fluid.
the hall was sold out and it was played in Zagreb and not on the coast.
if we can win in Holland it will be a good morale boost for the upcoming OQT in Split in june.
I think it will be crazy atmosphere there, can't wait for it to start.
last time I was in Split Spaladium Arena it was when our handball NT played it's group matches in 2018.
fantastic atmosphere then and even better to be expected now.

Straight forward
02-22-2020, 05:53 PM
I see most of our rivals testing and integrating young talent and we are "preparing" for OQT with absolute mediocrity. From our top 4 brightest youngsters this season in Kulboka, Brazdeikis, Velicka, Jokubaitis (and with the lesser extent Sirvydis, Masiulis, Sedekerskis, D.Giedraitis), we basically ddin't see any of them in NT (just few minutes for Masiulis). That's how we climbing back from the worst stretch results wise (2016-2019) of our NT BB history and the lowest point ever in FIBA rankings.

Hepcat
02-22-2020, 06:59 PM
What happened to Lithuania? Their roster is everything but weak. I didn't watch the game but they got toasted in Belgium. Very surprising to me in that dimension.

Only one team took yesterday's game seriously and came prepared to play and that was Belgium. In fact I'm very willing to bet that the Belgians derived extra motivation from all those articles in the press hinting that they weren't a "serious" opponent for the Lithuanian team. I see even former Team Lietuva Coach Antanas Sireika was quoted on Thursday as saying Belgium was not a serious team and he's certainly someone who should know better. Somebody was undoubtedly posting those articles (many/most translated from Lithuanian) on the bulletin board of the Belgian team's locker room. The Belgians therefore came out yesterday determined to make a statement.

Meanwhile the Lithuanian team probably believed its own press clippings. They treated the trip to Belgium as a nice mid-winter holiday break from the rigours of their respective club team schedules. They simply weren't ready for a game and they paid for their arrogance by getting toasted by a highly motivated Team Belgium.

:(

Picek
02-22-2020, 07:06 PM
Turkey was thanks to his coach catastrophically prepared otherwise Turkey should be able to beat NL with any team. This team is never be able to beat any serious team in Europe.
.
we are not a superpower, or even a power for that matter, especially without our NBA-ers, but we lost to NL in last qualifiers.
they are pretty much the same team now.
and Turkey without it's euroleague and NBA players is no force either.
at least not a force that someone should fear off or a force that can think about itself that are too good to lose to NL or anyone else for that matter.

Toruko
02-22-2020, 07:09 PM
we are not a superpower, or even a power for that matter, especially without our NBA-ers, but we lost to NL in last qualifiers.
they are pretty much the same team now.
and Turkey without it's euroleague and NBA players is no force either.
at least not a force that someone should fear off or a force that can think about itself that are too good to lose to NL or anyone else for that matter.

Well then you underperformed as well. Nobody can convince me that this one man team with below average skill set with players from the third spanish league is dangerous. If you lose to them then its just a lack of prep. Of course a team can surprise you by having a good day but in case of Turkey it was just the total failure of the coaching stuff.

Toruko
02-22-2020, 07:12 PM
Maybe you are a little to overconfident about Turkish players' quality. I wouldn't go so far to call Serbia B a favourite against Netherland. Not by any means.

You should then because a Serbia B is massively favourized against a NL NT.

I am not upset about the loss but rather about how we lost.

Picek
02-22-2020, 07:18 PM
btw.
Top 5 attendances in the FIBA EuroBasket 2021 Qualifiers, Gameday 1:

1. 11,000 – POL v ISR at the Arena Gliwice in Gliwice, Poland
2. 10,100 – LAT v BIH at the Arena Riga in Riga, Latvia
3. 9,563 – TUR v NED at the Ankara Arena in Ankara, Turkey
4. 7,099 – GEO v SUI at the Sports Palace Tbilisi in Tbilisi, Georgia
5. 6,770 – FIN v SRB at the Espoo Metro Arena in Espoo, Finland

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/eurobasket/1027282/fans-pack-venues-in-eurobasket-qualifiers-openers/

our game was sold out as well (capacity of Dražen Petrović hall is around 5500), and it was against Sweden, not against some superpower.
how to explain that.
teams without euroleague or NBA players and yet, arenas are sold out?
this just proves that FIBA system is not entirely wrong and that there is a huge interest for national team games all around europe.

Toruko
02-22-2020, 07:21 PM
Its a total blowout if this system kicks out some bb power in europe. WC 19 was played without Latvia, Slovenia and Croatia. It makes qualifiers maybe more interesting but the game and the tournament itself will suffer at last.

Katastroika
02-22-2020, 07:30 PM
Serbia lost with Teodosic, Raduljica and some Eurocup players in Estonia and it wasn't surprising as their team plays together for years and improves steadily. For me this Turkish team lacks a lot and is nothing special, I saw Netherlands three times in WC qualifiers and they played really good.

I agree with Toruko that teams like Latvia suffer the most as they have tremendous 6-7 players but they all have not the chance to participate and the following 15 are way worse. Other countries can get their shit together and at least qualify. I see absolutely no sense in this modus. It would be great to have all this sold out arenas when the best players play in a summer round-robbing tournament (4 teams for example in Estonia played in 3 days). Better for everyone.

BiHBasket
02-22-2020, 07:54 PM
Latvia missed not just NBA and Euroleague players but also some who actually could play like Jakovičs, Siliņš, Peiners etc., some were simply injured while others had unconvincing excuses why there are not available, but that is Latvian problem, not ours.

I'm suprised with so many old faces in qualifications, Blums is still Latvian guard, Erden is still Turkey C and Serbia returned washed Novica Velickovic. I understand small nations but there are more than 80 milions of people in Turkey, they invest so much money in basketball, and still who is their C in the 2020? Good old Semih Erden:rolleyes:

Toruko
02-22-2020, 08:10 PM
Latvia missed not just NBA and Euroleague players but also some who actually could play like Jakovičs, Siliņš, Peiners etc., some were simply injured while others had unconvincing excuses why there are not available, but that is Latvian problem, not ours.

I'm suprised with so many old faces in qualifications, Blums is still Latvian guard, Erden is still Turkey C and Serbia returned washed Novica Velickovic. I understand small nations but there are more than 80 milions of people in Turkey, they invest so much money in basketball, and still who is their C in the 2020? Good old Semih Erden:rolleyes:

The critics are understandable. Its a disgrace actually. All bigs from 95-97 took the big money and spent their time without playing for years except one guy. Erden is with his motivation worse than Embiid.

Lost Ömer Asik to a desease when he was 31
Enes Kanter to politics
His brother Kerem Kanter who plays in Badalona

Emircan Kosut 95 isnt playing bb anymore
Egemen Güven 96 U18 MVP is a shadow of himself
Ege Arar is an unskilled big but he is playing 8-10 minutes
Ayberk Olmaz 96 has the same weight when he was in U20

All those bigs got more money that they deserved and are very cozy.

The options right now are:

Semih Erden (who should retire at least from the nt)
Sertac Sanli (maybe the worst big that turkey ever produced but he plays Euroleague)
Ömer Yurtseven 98 (NCAA late first round or start second round draftee)
Berke Atar 99 (who is at least a good offensive big) but also very suspicious due to his character.

but there is still hope.
There are 2 guys with clear NBA potential.

Alperen Sengün 2002 born PF/ Center (Very skilled big and the future big of Turkey)
Adem Bona (Clint Capella Giannis mix nigerian rooted 2003 born big)

I think these two guys will take over in the future. These two and Tibet Görener. If they fail i am going to quit my hopes for the turkish nt.

Victorious
02-23-2020, 10:59 AM
btw.
Top 5 attendances in the FIBA EuroBasket 2021 Qualifiers, Gameday 1:

1. 11,000 – POL v ISR at the Arena Gliwice in Gliwice, Poland
2. 10,100 – LAT v BIH at the Arena Riga in Riga, Latvia
3. 9,563 – TUR v NED at the Ankara Arena in Ankara, Turkey
4. 7,099 – GEO v SUI at the Sports Palace Tbilisi in Tbilisi, Georgia
5. 6,770 – FIN v SRB at the Espoo Metro Arena in Espoo, Finland

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/eurobasket/1027282/fans-pack-venues-in-eurobasket-qualifiers-openers/

our game was sold out as well (capacity of Dražen Petrović hall is around 5500), and it was against Sweden, not against some superpower.
how to explain that.
teams without euroleague or NBA players and yet, arenas are sold out?
this just proves that FIBA system is not entirely wrong and that there is a huge interest for national team games all around europe.

I am thinking about going to watch the Netherlands vs Croatia tomorrow. It's a joy to be able to see ones national team as well as visiting national teams throughout the year. It would be even more amazing to see a full Croatia squad.

So I agree with FIBA. The system of competition is good. FIBA supports the National teams. And at the end of the day, the national teams are the main promotors of basketball. But they need to find solutions concerning the Euroleague and the NBA. These organisations should understand that the profit they generate eventually stems from the national teams. It would be amazing if the NBA and the EL can create two windows during the year for national team play. Or at least, the NBA should be able to release its international NBA players for a week or so during regular season. And the EL could have a break in its calendar. But instead, they want more games. They should be able to find a competition format which allows for a few less games and more breaks in the calendar.

Dtown
02-23-2020, 06:55 PM
Some interesting results today Serbia and Spain losing, unlike the World Cup qualifiers though with 3/4 of the teams qualifying there's no real reason for concern, at least not yet.

Out of the actual powers the only one I'm actually worried for is Slovenia. They won today but were actually trailing Austria going into the 4th while at home.

Katastroika
02-23-2020, 07:03 PM
Some interesting results today Serbia and Spain losing, unlike the World Cup qualifiers though with 3/4 of the teams qualifying there's no real reason for concern, at least not yet.

Out of the actual powers the only one I'm actually worried for is Slovenia. They won today but were actually trailing Austria going into the 4th while at home.

Serbia lost deserved. Great game of Georgia. They are better than this Serbian team and won maybe tougher than they should as they completely slept first 5min. when we went up by 13 out of nothing.

Good fight from our boys. Jaramaz is a real candidate for OQT. Rest unfortunately at least now not even close.

PS: Georgia is a great team. Well coached and organized with a naturalized player that makes them much better than they are even without him.

Liha
02-23-2020, 09:40 PM
Finland is one of the teams suffering a lot of Euroleague players not being able to play in most of the games. With the absence of Koponen Finland is much weaker as Finland doesn't have the depth to replace such players.

Luckily we had Sasu Salin on fire tonight carrying Finland to a thriller win over Switzerland which was played in Switzerland also. Finland trailed the game for 38 minutes and when there was two minutes left in the game Finland was leading for the first time during the game and won the game.

Poor Switzerland just can't win games. Three days ago Switzerland lost after an OT against Georgia and now this. It was really crazy how Finland won today's game after the first half when Finland was trailing for about 17 points and the team was looking like a complete mess. Also Finland was landing their FG 6/36 I believe on the first half against a bad defense. Every open shot missed behind the three point line basically or near the basket. Nothing went in, never seen something like that from Finland that relies on their good shooting against a team that didn't even defend well.

markkanen
02-24-2020, 05:46 AM
Finland is one of the teams suffering a lot of Euroleague players not being able to play in most of the games. With the absence of Koponen Finland is much weaker as Finland doesn't have the depth to replace such players.

Luckily we had Sasu Salin on fire tonight carrying Finland to a thriller win over Switzerland which was played in Switzerland also. Finland trailed the game for 38 minutes and when there was two minutes left in the game Finland was leading for the first time during the game and won the game.

Poor Switzerland just can't win games. Three days ago Switzerland lost after an OT against Georgia and now this. It was really crazy how Finland won today's game after the first half when Finland was trailing for about 17 points and the team was looking like a complete mess. Also Finland was landing their FG 6/36 I believe on the first half against a bad defense. Every open shot missed behind the three point line basically or near the basket. Nothing went in, never seen something like that from Finland that relies on their good shooting against a team that didn't even defend well.

Yes, bad shooting in first half, much better in second. But bigs are very, very serious problem for this team. Also, young players and their development, where is Jantunen? So, what are the options under the basket? Eternal Tuukka Kotti who isn't center, Madsen, Murphey, who else?

Finnlay
02-24-2020, 06:23 AM
Also, young players and their development, where is Jantunen? Overseas playing college ball, so he understandably wasn't available.

That being said, we are woefully thin for 4/5 slots. One of the primary tasks for Dettmann and his adjutants should be to find some fresh blood for the big end. It's time for Kotti to retire, and with E.Murphy injured (and Markkanen and Jantunen across the pond), the only big guy worth something we had in this window was Madsen. Oh well, a win is a win, and the good news is that there's the summer between now and the next window, so hopefully they'll take the opportunity to try out some new faces. (Dolenc?)

Liha
02-24-2020, 12:23 PM
Yes, bad shooting in first half, much better in second. But bigs are very, very serious problem for this team. Also, young players and their development, where is Jantunen? So, what are the options under the basket? Eternal Tuukka Kotti who isn't center, Madsen, Murphey, who else?

You are for sure right about the problem with bigs. We need some years to basically survive and some how make it to Euro basket and so on and once we get some returnees from overseas like Pöllä or if Jantunen comes to Europe instead of NBA, things will become a bit easier. I do like Madsen though, but we can't rely on him being our starting position 5 player in my opinion.

Hopefully some of the non bigs will developed well and be in our use in couple of years as well such as Tahvanainen and Elias Valtonen.

OffTheWallJamal
02-24-2020, 08:11 PM
No Latvia in the Eurobasket 2021, all the best players in their prime will likely miss the biggest tournament of their life, just thanks to FIBA, they screwed the Latvian golden generation, as I root for them and have a lot of friends from that small Nation, it hurts very much.

If they do not make it, it will be a very big loss for basketball they could be a top 4 team in my opinion if all the best are available.

Looking at their roster for these games if all the best would be available maybe 2 players would make the roster from this current squad, Mejeris and Zagars or Skele.

Porzingis, Bertans brother, Strelnieks, Kurucs, Pasecniks, Smits, Lomazs, Peiners, Timma so much potential.

Katastroika
02-24-2020, 08:57 PM
From all teams I've watched in this qualifiers Turkey is the by far biggest disappointment. Not because of the losses but because like Toruko said because of lack of everything. Looks really really bad.

Toruko
02-24-2020, 09:07 PM
From all teams I've watched in this qualifiers Turkey is the by far biggest disappointment. Not because of the losses but because like Toruko said because of lack of everything. Looks really really bad.

Its the role they get in their teams. They work well in a running system but now they must carry it themselves. The problem this time was big time Semih Erden. He fucked us everytime on the defensive end. The perimeter defense was bad this time. We gave too many open shots, couldnt grab rebounds. The guys were too nervous. There was no attack to the rim at all. IMO the wrong guys were chosen to play. Sanli the second big man obviously has been working on his shots but his problem with illegal screens might kill us.

At this point: we have to say Erden bye and play with the young guys who are not ready but hungry. When we suck we should suck with them.

1. get rid of the coach even if it costs Eurobasket 21
2. give the guys bigger roles in their teams
3. use young promising prospects instead of old ones who has no fire in them anymore.

Nevertheless there were also good signs. Especially Durmaz made a very good game on both sides.

I hoped that Metecan might have surpassed his mental blocks but his awareness of the game is still very bad. I have to admit that I overestimated some guys but I still think that they would work on a running system.

Now hopefully you understand why Mert Akay is so important for me :D

Mindozas
02-25-2020, 06:49 AM
No Latvia in the Eurobasket 2021, all the best players in their prime will likely miss the biggest tournament of their life, just thanks to FIBA, they screwed the Latvian golden generation, as I root for them and have a lot of friends from that small Nation, it hurts very much.

If they do not make it, it will be a very big loss for basketball they could be a top 4 team in my opinion if all the best are available.

Looking at their roster for these games if all the best would be available maybe 2 players would make the roster from this current squad, Mejeris and Zagars or Skele.

Porzingis, Bertans brother, Strelnieks, Kurucs, Pasecniks, Smits, Lomazs, Peiners, Timma so much potential.

But.. but... it helps to rise the popularity of the game in other countries, to improve, what a great attendance records too. Latvia is already too good, too improved thnx to FIBA of course, let others rise now

Really, screw this FIBA, I just have no words how they fcked it all. The better leading players you have - the less chances to make it to major tournament

Obina
02-25-2020, 08:56 AM
I think that every FIBA member deserves some kind of punishment for these qualifications.

ZaliaBalta
02-25-2020, 09:31 AM
Well, Latvia played a terrible ending of yesterday’s game against Bulgaria. They had all the freaking chances to secure the win.

Nevertheless, I agree with you about the shitty system. If Latvia does not make it to Eurobasket 2021, then it will be the THIRD major tournament (World Cup 2019, Olympics 2020, Eurobasket 2021) that Latvia is going to miss and a break of at least 5 years (2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022) without a normal national team tournament. What the hell guys? Knowing how freaking strong Latvia’s true squad actually is, this sounds like a disaster. A period of 5 years in basketball is so fking long. Players might end up their careers, generations might change and so on. This Latvia golden squad so far had only one chance to show themselves and it was before the terrible FIBA system was accepted (Eurobasket 2017). I’m just shaking my head. With all due respect, what do teams like Bulgaria, Great Britain, Hungary, Sweden, Netherlands, etc bring to the Eurobasket compared to fully loaded Latvia or hell even Turkey..

Dirtyh
02-25-2020, 10:10 AM
But.. but... it helps to rise the popularity of the game in other countries, to improve, what a great attendance records too. Latvia is already too good, too improved thnx to FIBA of course, let others rise now

Really, screw this FIBA, I just have no words how they fcked it all. The better leading players you have - the less chances to make it to major tournament

Well, like you said; those FIBA idiots probably think that their strategy is working because there's been those pretty big attendances... Actually it might be better that one of the (economical) power house like Turkey would end up missing the tournament. Maybe that would put end for this nonsense.

Mindozas
02-25-2020, 11:01 AM
Well, like you said; those FIBA idiots probably think that their strategy is working because there's been those pretty big attendances... Actually it might be better that one of the (economical) power house like Turkey would end up missing the tournament. Maybe that would put end for this nonsense.

The worst thing about it is that, I think, they understand all the negative things these changes brought, but they are closing their eyes to it and at the end nothing will change. To soften a situation, here and there they publishes some loud interviews about how it all works perfectly, how it exceeded their expectations and etc. Their priority was to rise the popularity of dying World Champ and make more money and they did it against all odds by killing the most prestigious Eurobasket as Olympic qualifier, ruining the system, making qualification to Olympics via World Cup simply stupid. I have no hope smth will change for the better, even if some big name won't qualify, I'm quite sure they would come with the statement that this is a great chance for others, how basketball gained more popularity in other nations and how their plans works...

Shawshank
02-25-2020, 11:21 AM
Latvians top 7 players is world level for sure,the rest seems is c level...not good even for champions league level,thats how consider this qualification groups level.

People can blame fiba all they want, but comon those qualification opponenets is playing also with very average players and if again fail to make to second champ when 3 of 4 teams qualife from group is on Latvians not on fiba. World cup qualification draw was kinda tough on them i agree,but this eurobasket qualification group they must beat Bulgaria and Bosnia if they consider themself top 16 world team no excuses.They need to beat only one comon thats not impossible mission even for average level team...

if your second unit cant do that its on you.System is for everyone the same.

Teams/fans should stop crying and take their own responsability for choking in game endings like latvians did over and over again in last 2 qualification, they always in game and always finding ways to loose in the end.Thats not corrupted fibas fault.

You live by jumper and die by jumper atleats have some plan b and you will win atleats half of those endings

not only shoot shoot shoot treepointers and hope that balls will go in with tired legs in game endings.

Mindozas
02-25-2020, 12:06 PM
Latvians top 7 players is world level for sure,the rest seems is c level...not good even for champions league level,thats how consider this qualification groups level.

People can blame fiba all they want, but comon those qualification opponenets is playing also with very average players and if again fail to make to second champ when 3 of 4 teams qualife from group is on Latvians not on fiba. World cup qualification draw was kinda tough on them i agree,but this eurobasket qualification group they must beat Bulgaria and Bosnia if they consider themself top 16 world team no excuses.They need to beat only one comon thats not impossible mission even for average level team...

if your second unit cant do that its on you.System is for everyone the same.

Teams/fans should stop crying and take their own responsability for choking in game endings like latvians did over and over again in last 2 qualification, they always in game and always finding ways to loose in the end.Thats not corrupted fibas fault.

You live by jumper and die by jumper atleats have some plan b and you will win atleats half of those endings

not only shoot shoot shoot treepointers and hope that balls will go in with tired legs in game endings.

It was like Bulgarian A team playing vs Latvian B one at best? Is that fair for you? Is system the same for everyone? A team vs B team playing? Why the hell Latvian B team must beat Bulgarian A tam to prove that Latvian A team is better? Is that how we decide the best basketball nations at the moment? It's pure nonsence from FIBA. None team is obliged to have strong second unit or some strong third string players, they must be obliged to have the best ones on court to decide which team is better. That's how sport should look like and not this absurd theatre. It's only FIBA's fault on this, not some nations

OffTheWallJamal
02-25-2020, 01:31 PM
Latvians top 7 players is world level for sure,the rest seems is c level...not good even for champions league level,thats how consider this qualification groups level.

People can blame fiba all they want, but comon those qualification opponenets is playing also with very average players and if again fail to make to second champ when 3 of 4 teams qualife from group is on Latvians not on fiba. World cup qualification draw was kinda tough on them i agree,but this eurobasket qualification group they must beat Bulgaria and Bosnia if they consider themself top 16 world team no excuses.They need to beat only one comon thats not impossible mission even for average level team...

if your second unit cant do that its on you.System is for everyone the same.

Teams/fans should stop crying and take their own responsability for choking in game endings like latvians did over and over again in last 2 qualification, they always in game and always finding ways to loose in the end.Thats not corrupted fibas fault.

You live by jumper and die by jumper atleats have some plan b and you will win atleats half of those endings

not only shoot shoot shoot treepointers and hope that balls will go in with tired legs in game endings.

Yeah ofcourse they blew that game last night, but to say Latvia has only 7 player depth and others are not champions league quality is ridiculous.

Why in football all the best can be available to qualify for big tournaments, why all the best players in hockey can be available for the Nation and can participate to make it to the Olympics.

Basketball is the only sport where all the best players can't help to qualify, it doesn't make sense.

soulis79
02-25-2020, 02:49 PM
I think that after gameday 2, two maybe three teams are in trouble. Turkey is the obvious candidate for elimination. in their group Netherlands is a solid team with a ten years core and some good pros. Croatia learned their lesson from the previous World Cup Qualifiers and decide to recall Ukic( wise choice in my opinion). They also took the games more seriously. Finally Sweden is playing with their B team(no Taylor, no Jerebko, no Eriksson) but didn't prevent them to beat Turkey easily. Turkey's problem is not the absence of Euroleague players. The problem is the NBA absentees. Even with Larkin Turkey will have problems to advance.

Two more teams will find hard to qualify. Spain (probably they will finish in third place) and Russia. As for Latvia the group is very weak, so everybody can win it. Finally Greece will have major problem after the Olympic Games. But for now we keep the winning mode. Maybe this will change in the next window although I am not very optimistic about the future of our team.

Toruko
02-25-2020, 06:01 PM
Turkey will never struggle with Larkin with a serious one at least but the next window is in November if i am not mistaken. Hell be in the NBA then (most likely). The problem are not the Euroleague players. Turks have just 3 of them with really small roles. We must raise some guys who can carry or facilitate the whole team outside of the nba. In fact the problem came to a good time. A Larkin would deceive us from the real problems.

The real problem are not the opponents. Of course Sweden and NL have full rosters and are used to each other but the individual skill set of the turkish player must be enough. Turkeys problem is in the most crucial spots. One and Five. In addition to that, the coach has been doing a horrible job and doesnt see a slightest problem with himself.

I think at this point it is even better not to qualify.

R1ou
02-25-2020, 06:56 PM
Turkey will never struggle with Larkin with a serious one at least but the next window is in November if i am not mistaken. Hell be in the NBA then (most likely). The problem are not the Euroleague players. Turks have just 3 of them with really small roles. We must raise some guys who can carry or facilitate the whole team outside of the nba. In fact the problem came to a good time. A Larkin would deceive us from the real problems.

The real problem are not the opponents. Of course Sweden and NL have full rosters and are used to each other but the individual skill set of the turkish player must be enough. Turkeys problem is in the most crucial spots. One and Five. In addition to that, the coach has been doing a horrible job and doesnt see a slightest problem with himself.

I think at this point it is even better not to qualify.

Sweden are missing Jerebko and Eriksson as it was previously mentioned and I don't know if Jeff Taylor still plays for them. Those are huge absences for a team like Sweden.

In any case 3 out of 4 teams qualify to the tournament so Turkey or Latvia would need to blow it big time in order to miss it.

Dirtyh
02-25-2020, 06:59 PM
why all the best players in hockey can be available for the Nation and can participate to make it to the Olympics.

Ice Hockey? So called World Championship is played every year at the same time they are playing play offs in NHL. And all the serious teams qualify to Olympics with any qualification.

Dirtyh
02-25-2020, 07:05 PM
Sweden are missing Jerebko and Eriksson as it was previously mentioned and I don't know if Jeff Taylor still plays for them. Those are huge absences for a team like Sweden.
Yes they are but none of them can create their own shot. I haven't seen Ludvig Håkanson or Tobias Borg for a long long time. Can they create? If yes, full power Sweden is actually pretty decent team.

LuDux
02-25-2020, 07:11 PM
Ice Hockey? So called World Championship is played every year at the same time they are playing play offs in NHL. And all the serious teams qualify to Olympics with any qualification.


Could it be because there's simply less serious hockey countries in the world?

OffTheWallJamal
02-25-2020, 07:38 PM
Ice Hockey? So called World Championship is played every year at the same time they are playing playoffs in NHL. And all the serious teams qualify for Olympics with any qualification.

I was talking more about the Olympics.

Not happening to the team's who are in the 7th or lower in the rankings, for example, to qualify for Olympics 2022 the tournament will happen before the season starts in August, what is the problem for basketball federation to put qualifying tournaments before the season late summer?

BiHBasket
02-25-2020, 08:43 PM
Latvia isn't in this situation because they lack their NBA and Euroleague players, they lost two games because they were not able to gather their best possible team without NBA and Euroleague players.

National team GM Artūrs Štālbergs: "Savukārt Ingus Jakovičs man pateica, ka būs, kārtojām visus lidošanas dokumentus, bet nākamajā dienā viņš pēkšņi pateica, ka nebūs. Ingus arī pēc tam nolēma ignorēt vairākus telefona zvanus. Tas tā nebūs, ka spēlētāji tagad nebrauks un viss būs kārtībā. Kad spēlētājiem vajag izlasi, tad viņi ir, kad izlasei vajag, tad viņi domā. "

Katastroika
11-25-2020, 05:27 PM
I read now in Croatian media that Efes gave okay to Simon to play vs. Sweden but not vs. Turkey - I have no words for this. :rolleyes:

radallo
11-25-2020, 05:45 PM
I read now in Croatian media that Efes gave okay to Simon to play vs. Sweden but not vs. Turkey - I have no words for this. :rolleyes:

I really hope this is a fake news........

Katastroika
11-25-2020, 06:21 PM
I really hope this is a fake news........

https://sportnet.rtl.hr/vijesti/545179/kosarka-reprezentacija/anadolu-efes-dozvolio-simonu-nastup-u-istanbulu-protiv-svedske/
Korac is pretty reliable usually.

I don't blame Turkish federation. This whole FIBA system is to be blamed that such things are possible. I hope really the top federations will stop this circus next year. Spaniards made move in this direction a few years ago. Such an idiotic system. You play qualifiers with your C teams.

Nemanja95
11-25-2020, 11:32 PM
I read now in Croatian media that Efes gave okay to Simon to play vs. Sweden but not vs. Turkey - I have no words for this. :rolleyes:

Croatia will play against Sweden at Sunday, but against Turkey in Friday.Play against Turkey means absence against Crvena Zvezda in Euroleague, play against Sweden means absence in TBL, what is game of lesser importance .Of course, one of the reason is because it Turkey`s opponent is Croatia, but mostly clubs don`t allow to players play for NT if is it in same time .So, Simon ironically can be satisfied .

Katastroika
11-26-2020, 07:16 AM
Croatia will play against Sweden at Sunday, but against Turkey in Friday.Play against Turkey means absence against Crvena Zvezda in Euroleague, play against Sweden means absence in TBL, what is game of lesser importance .Of course, one of the reason is because it Turkey`s opponent is Croatia, but mostly clubs don`t allow to players play for NT if is it in same time .So, Simon ironically can be satisfied .

The side that can be satisfied the most is Turkey, though. Croatia loses it best player and only one who can carry the team even player wanted to play this game. And ironically biggest losers of this are Sweden and Netherlands :)

Even I see situation different than you I can agree that the word "ironically" is really the right one here. Very difficult to take this qualification serious.

Mindozas
11-26-2020, 10:38 AM
https://sportnet.rtl.hr/vijesti/545179/kosarka-reprezentacija/anadolu-efes-dozvolio-simonu-nastup-u-istanbulu-protiv-svedske/
Korac is pretty reliable usually.

I don't blame Turkish federation. This whole FIBA system is to be blamed that such things are possible. I hope really the top federations will stop this circus next year. Spaniards made move in this direction a few years ago. Such an idiotic system. You play qualifiers with your C teams.

But actually there isn't written that it's Efes decision to keep him away from game vs Turkey :) At least the way google transltor did its job, that's how it looks like. I've made an impression that if he will be available in time and will want to he might play that game, but realistically he will only against Sweden. Afterall, Simon is 35yo, that would be simply not wise to play for him two days in a row including flights, then also play on Sunday. I guess player himself won't take such risks, he should have major minutes in Belgrade either

Katastroika
11-26-2020, 11:26 AM
I really hope that it is like that but I have my serious doubts and following Croatian portals I am not the only one. For me is logical consequence that when he received green light for Sweden that he didn't for Turkey.
Anyways, I look forward to this game as it should be a good one and maybe the best of all round.

The major problem is that such things (however you call them) shouldn't even be possible. We are 10.000 miles away from professionalism of FIFA/UEFA. As bad as they are either, they are NBA for FIBA.
I hope for a good game as it should be the best in this windows.

Btw I heard interesting "insights" from bubble in Finland. Information comes from a Serbian player that is there (I am friend with a relative). It's even forbid to leave the room except for eating and practice. They are in single rooms. It's somewhere between bubble and prison. Kokoskov left very good impresion on the guys. His knowledge is gigantic according to what I've heard. I hope Fener fans won't got angry on reading that :) I understand his underperforming there.

Mindozas
11-26-2020, 12:34 PM
Yeah, regarding bubble it's pretty much the same here in Lithuania, all teams are living in different floors of hotel, they can't leave it. Everyone lives alone in their room. They can meet at dinner table, but just take food and get back to eat at own room or simply food can be delivered there. Up to 5 people in weightlifting gym and etc. However there're some more additional space for entertainment for each team, where they'll able to get together, watch TV, play playstation, table tennis and so on, but of course with some distance restrictions. Anyway, I kinda doubt that current generation of players will have troubles with it, what so ever most of them has their noses in phones all the time :)

Regarding Istanbul bubble, I've read that Sweden has some important missings like Hakanson being covid positive, Birgander decided to stay in Badalona, he was really good this season as Tomic back-up, then couple other important guys are out too, I guess Croatia should do the job there, the same like Netherlands vs Sweden. For Turkey it might be difficult tho

Katastroika
11-27-2020, 08:55 AM
I read Hungarian team left bubble because of COVID-19 cases :(

I hope games will be rescheduled and not counted 0-20 which would be desastrous blow for Hungary.

Killer Bob
11-27-2020, 11:12 AM
I read Hungarian team left bubble because of COVID-19 cases :(

I hope games will be rescheduled and not counted 0-20 which would be desastrous blow for Hungary.

The games of Austria - Hungary on November 28 and Slovenia - Hungary on November 30 will not take place and will be rescheduled in the February 2021 window.

Katastroika
11-27-2020, 11:32 AM
Good news!

Mindozas
11-27-2020, 11:47 AM
Turkey announced squad for tonight, Larkin is in, along with Balbay, Sanli and Tuncer from Efes. It will be interesting to see how they'll do, that trip should've cost some mess in preparation. I think Croatia might have not bad chance for upset, they will be more ready.

Lithuania should have an easy night tonight. Denmark without Shields, and without few other important guys like best bigmen Larsen, forwards Jukic, Gilling. Not a sound names but important absentees for a team like Danes. Lundberg alone hardly will cause too much troubles. Good preparation for us before Belgium game, even tho they are also weakened

Toruko
11-27-2020, 12:05 PM
Turkey announced squad for tonight, Larkin is in, along with Balbay, Sanli and Tuncer from Efes. It will be interesting to see how they'll do, that trip should've cost some mess in preparation. I think Croatia might have not bad chance for upset, they will be more ready.

Lithuania should have an easy night tonight. Denmark without Shields, and without few other important guys like best bigmen Larsen, forwards Jukic, Gilling. Not a sound names but important absentees for a team like Danes. Lundberg alone hardly will cause too much troubles. Good preparation for us before Belgium game, even tho they are also weakened

Under normal circumstances I would have been with you but there is a hidden one man army in the roster and I am not talking about Larkin.

Mindozas
11-27-2020, 12:07 PM
Under normal circumstances I would have been with you but there is a hidden one man army in the roster and I am not talking about Larkin.

It must be IBN darling Goksenin Koksal then :D

Hepcat
11-27-2020, 05:45 PM
anyway, i kinda doubt that current generation of players will have troubles with it, what so ever most of them has their noses in phones all the time :)

You think?

;)

Katastroika
11-27-2020, 05:47 PM
Croatia has a great balance of young and old. Their oldies did a grat job. Very good balance inside and outside. Structured gameplay, nice minute distribution. Often badly treatened coach has to get some respect.

Miro Bilan showed what could have become out of him if he had a different and not so apathic mindset.

Toruko
11-27-2020, 06:06 PM
We totally slept the first half. It could be seen that the team is 0 prepared. Efes can be happy about its win and stuck it in its butt. Sengün on 4 killed us and he was also not able to defend under the rim what is totally normal. First time I saw him that excited but in the second half with 4 fouls he had a very good 7-8 minutes.

The finishing was horrible and defense was even worse in the first half. We cant defend like that and we must finally find a solution of our lack of play making. Mert Akay must be implemented if hes ready or not.

Dtown
11-27-2020, 07:30 PM
Denmark with the shock win over Lithuania everyone aside from Belgium sitting at 1-2 right now.

Saip
11-27-2020, 08:24 PM
Turkey announced squad for tonight, Larkin is in, along with Balbay, Sanli and Tuncer from Efes. It will be interesting to see how they'll do, that trip should've cost some mess in preparation. I think Croatia might have not bad chance for upset, they will be more ready.

Lithuania should have an easy night tonight. Denmark without Shields, and without few other important guys like best bigmen Larsen, forwards Jukic, Gilling. Not a sound names but important absentees for a team like Danes. Lundberg alone hardly will cause too much troubles. Good preparation for us before Belgium game, even tho they are also weakened

Lol. I am happy and lucky i miss to watch the full game!

pohani komarac
11-27-2020, 08:33 PM
Nice win for us in Istanbul. Roko Prkačin made debut in city where he spent childhood one day after his 18th birthday

Hepcat
11-27-2020, 11:12 PM
Yeah, regarding bubble it's pretty much the same here in Lithuania, all teams are living in different floors of hotel, they can't leave it.

In which Vilnius hotel are the players staying?

:confused:

BiHBasket
11-28-2020, 04:15 AM
For different reasons we are without 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th best center, but two young centers with zero experience in the national team filled the role against Bulgaria: 20 - years old Kenan Kamenjas(12 points, 3 rebounds) and 23 - years old Ajdin Penava(9 points, 9 rebounds).

madmax
11-28-2020, 04:32 PM
Swiss player just hit a buzzer beater to beat a serbian team lmao...:rolleyes:
Not a good weekend for traditional european basketball powers it seems...

Katastroika
11-28-2020, 04:34 PM
At least Serbian players of Swiss team played better than Serbians of Serbia :)

Congratulations to Switzerland. Deserved win. We are in critical situation if we lose in Monday (what I expect). This result isn't surprise unfortunately.

R1ou
11-28-2020, 06:10 PM
We totally slept the first half. It could be seen that the team is 0 prepared. Efes can be happy about its win and stuck it in its butt. Sengün on 4 killed us and he was also not able to defend under the rim what is totally normal. First time I saw him that excited but in the second half with 4 fouls he had a very good 7-8 minutes.

The finishing was horrible and defense was even worse in the first half. We cant defend like that and we must finally find a solution of our lack of play making. Mert Akay must be implemented if hes ready or not.

What Efes could do more? Perhaps they are the only team that gave permission to their local players to play for the NT.

Toruko
11-28-2020, 06:16 PM
What Efes could do more? Perhaps they are the only team that gave permission to their local players to play for the NT.

Efes gave permission to their local players but took them to Serbia and caused a big ruckus in the NT. NT has always a leading position and if they have to lose one game for the sake of the NT so be it.

Victorious
11-28-2020, 06:41 PM
People should not put much weight on team jerseys. Anyone can beat anyone in these tournaments. And when the A teams will compete, only two or three teams will be a level above the rest. Nowadays the game of basketball is played on a good level across the continent.

Katastroika
11-28-2020, 07:08 PM
People should not put much weight on team jerseys. Anyone can beat anyone in these tournaments. And when the A teams will compete, only two or three teams will be a level above the rest. Nowadays the game of basketball is played on a good level across the continent.

That's what I'm constantly saying. And it's the only truth. Why Lithuanian B-tear player should beat Belgian A-tear player - because he plays for Lithuania? Same goes for any other serious team.
Not to mention that usually players of "weaker" teams are extra motivated to beat a nominally better opponent. 90% of this players in this qualification are Eurocup-quality (and more often that not even below). That's not that extra class that you need to slalom through the qualifiers. That's why I absolutely put 0 emotion in this whole qualifiers. I think FIBA could make a gigantic own goal this time.

And often not recognized but very important reason of this upsets is that the Denmarks, Netherlands, Switzerlands of this world are playing together for years with the same group of guys, they have chemistry, hierarchy and cohesion. And in basketball this is usually the receipe to win games.

Toruko
11-28-2020, 07:12 PM
The difference comes from preparation. If you have a team who has obvious weaknesses but they play for years together and a diced team with 1 week preparation of course the first mentioned team has an advantage. The most important thing in bb is clarified roles and duties.

Killer Bob
11-28-2020, 07:18 PM
Slovenia with fast start.

R1ou
11-28-2020, 09:09 PM
Efes gave permission to their local players but took them to Serbia and caused a big ruckus in the NT. NT has always a leading position and if they have to lose one game for the sake of the NT so be it.

They were the exception to the rule, things could be even worse than this if they simply didn't allow them to play (or allow every other international like Simon, Pleiss, Moerman etc).

Killer Bob
11-29-2020, 11:03 AM
It will be interesting to see, how Fiba looks on this windows, if some big teams like Serbia doesn’t play in Eurobasket. It would be similar story like to put Serbian skiers to Olympics instead of Swiss skiers. A teams of non-basketball nations, can of course be better than F teams of basketball nations, but should they play in the biggest competition in the Europe, just because best players cannot participate in qualifications? Maybe Fiba should add the rule that only players than play qualifications can play in Eurobasket? I believe that would be fair towards players, who plays this qualifications.

Victorious
11-29-2020, 12:33 PM
That's what I'm constantly saying. And it's the only truth. Why Lithuanian B-tear player should beat Belgian A-tear player - because he plays for Lithuania? Same goes for any other serious team.
Not to mention that usually players of "weaker" teams are extra motivated to beat a nominally better opponent. 90% of this players in this qualification are Eurocup-quality (and more often that not even below). That's not that extra class that you need to slalom through the qualifiers. That's why I absolutely put 0 emotion in this whole qualifiers. I think FIBA could make a gigantic own goal this time.

And often not recognized but very important reason of this upsets is that the Denmarks, Netherlands, Switzerlands of this world are playing together for years with the same group of guys, they have chemistry, hierarchy and cohesion. And in basketball this is usually the receipe to win games.

Forget about Belgium A vs Lithuania B. I think that Belgium A can beat Lithuania A nowadays.

The windows FIBA created were great. I really enjoy watching national teams throughout the year. It's great for the sport. If only the best players of all countries were able to play in these windows, imagine the level of basketball we would be able to see in the great tournaments during the summer. The best teams will be able to glue and work on their weaknesses.

The EL is being selfish if you ask me. And I really don't see why the NBA shouldn't borrow their players for a few days during the regular season. It would be a tremendous boost to the game of basketball. Arenas will be sold out as fans will witness official games of their national teams. It will pay off for the NBA and Euroleague on the long term. Giannis, Doncic, Nowitzky, Ginobili, Gasols, etc. are all the result of the basketball tradition which was initiated in those countries by their respectable national teams.

And even if the NBA is too selfish to allow its players to participate during the window fase, the EL could still be more willing to cooperate.

Toruko
11-29-2020, 02:50 PM
We stuck in offense like always in the first quarter but defended very well in the majority of the first half. Alperen Sengün my boy is such a gem. An absolute monster offensively but must work on his positioning in Defense but he carried the team at least 6 minutes. This boy is 18 years old and plays like an 30 year old player.

Ege Arar also did a very good job offensively as well as defensively but the reason why he was playing is that Sengün got his second foul and we need him in the second half. We must win this game no matter how.

markkanen
11-29-2020, 03:02 PM
Dettmann just refused to answer the questions, LOL. :confused: I mean, what kind of unprofessional behavior is that, just lame.

Toruko
11-29-2020, 03:44 PM
We almost gave the win away but ok a win is a win even though we couldnt overcome the 7 points margin. Now waiting for Croatia to beat Sweden because in February will be the next chance to prepare.

Katastroika
11-29-2020, 04:09 PM
Lundberg...

BiHBasket
11-29-2020, 10:38 PM
20 years old Kamenjas with 19 points against Latvia, but he is just one more center. With Nurkic and Halilovic in the team he only can be a third option, and with a possible addition of NCAA star Luka Garza even position of third center is questionable for him. I wish we produce some forwards and guards, not just big guys.

Katastroika
11-30-2020, 03:53 PM
I feel really bad for writing this but it was more important for Serbia that Switzerland loses than that we win as we are heavily fighting for place 3 :)

Switzerland left very good impression on me. Great spirit, 4 guys know basketball 6 around them fight like their lives depend on the game. Fascinating team spirit.

Serbian_Layup
12-01-2020, 05:04 AM
Kokoškov made excellent adjustments after the game vs Switzerland. This Serbian team has been labeled as soft by the Serbian fan base, and I'm glad that Kokoškov managed to shake them up and lift their spirit for this game vs Finland. It's true that this team is somewhat soft, there just aren't tough defenders willing to go bone-to-bone, except maybe Dangubić, so it was nice to see them stepping up in a very tough and pshycholgically challenging game. Coaching staff deserves big credit here, I payed attention to Serbian timeots and you could see that Kokoškov has authority and knowledge to be successful in the future. He has this NBA coaching style, no histeric reactions and cursing towards players, maybe that Is not ideal when you are coaching young players who need tough love, but when you have Jokić, Bogdan, Teo, Bjelica, calmness on the bench will be much more needed in the future.

Katastroika
12-01-2020, 08:59 AM
This is true.

Still, I have a lot of negative attitude towards this qualifiers. You cannot implement defensive sets. This idiotic quote that defense is "just a matter of will" is not true. Switzerland made us a lot of point with coast to coast from stretch guys who simply received the ball and crossed the court. It was obvious that our team simply didn't have the mechanisms to know who will take over, switching was horrible. In second game this looked much better. I am satisfied with offense generally. We scored in both losses in first two windows 90 points and had on paper very positive stats from the field. The biggest difference from regular A team is that you can see in every game of every team that 2-3 players are shouldering the whole game of a team. It looks like classical bottom teams of domestic championships. In Serbia's case the strategy of second game was obviously to give freedom to scorers and surround them with grinders. A good mechanism for winning such a game when you are more talented. This win was good and important but still, I have serious problems in taking this competition format serious and develop emotion in it.

I don't see sense in this qualifications. Victorious mentioned that gyms are full and people want to see their national team. I don't know how this is in Greece but generally fans in their respective countries deserve to see their best players. I think that a round-robbing tournament of 4 teams per group each summer would be perfect instead of this 2 years lasting complete senseless format.

Hepcat
12-01-2020, 04:23 PM
You cannot implement defensive sets. This idiotic quote that defense is "just a matter of will" is not true. Switzerland made us a lot of point with coast to coast from stretch guys who simply received the ball and crossed the court. It was obvious that our team simply didn't have the mechanisms to know who will take over, switching was horrible.

Why then don't teams simply play a zone defence so that the players don't have to learn switching responsibilities? If zone defences weren't effective, the NBA would not have banned them.

:confused:

Katastroika
12-01-2020, 05:11 PM
Why then don't teams simply play a zone defence so that the players don't have to learn switching responsibilities? If zone defences weren't effective, the NBA would not have banned them.

:confused:

How you want to play a zone in opponents half, bro? :)

In those mentioned situations their players literally had a highway to the cup from the throw-in. And, switchin aside, a zone is physically extremely exhausting and takes a lot of drills and training to be functioning. I suppose zones would look even worse and more tragicomical.

Mindozas
02-02-2021, 11:54 AM
Decisive window approaches (20-22 February), here came the news that Jerebko will represent Sweden in Ankara, for the the first time since 2013. Huge boost for Sweden, and if few other Swedish leaders will be back who missed previous window, that might be very interesting battle for the two remaining qualifying spots. If Sweden beats Turkey in opener, Turkey are out... Wondering if Larkin will be there again? Efes has a game on 18th at home, so good chances to have him on 20th vs Swedes

Serbian_Layup
02-03-2021, 01:26 PM
https://www.eurohoops.net/en/eurobasket/1165111/kokoskov-wants-micic-to-join-serbia-in-next-eurobasket-qualifeirs/

This is interesting, we are relatively close to qualify, but it's good that Kokoškov is showing a lot of seriousness by trying to add Micić for February window (though it's a long shot).
Petrušev is about to make a debut for NT, that's nice.

Also, there are negotiations between Serbian basketball federation and Zvezda about couple of players, I'm guessing Radanov, Simanić and maybe Dobrić or Davidovac. Maybe even Kuridža. I don't know if Simonović is healthy enough to play.

Jaramaz is also back, so this is definitely nice effort from Kokoškov and federation to form as strong team as possible in front of these decisive games.

Straight forward
02-03-2021, 02:05 PM
This is interesting, we are relatively close to qualify, but it's good that Kokoškov is showing a lot of seriousness by trying to add Micić for February window (though it's a long shot).
Petrušev is about to make a debut for NT, that's nice.


Wow!

Silence in the basketball country though...Aside some chances to have 20yo Jokubaitis.

Mindozas
02-03-2021, 02:37 PM
https://www.eurohoops.net/en/eurobasket/1165111/kokoskov-wants-micic-to-join-serbia-in-next-eurobasket-qualifeirs/

This is interesting, we are relatively close to qualify, but it's good that Kokoškov is showing a lot of seriousness by trying to add Micić for February window (though it's a long shot).
Petrušev is about to make a debut for NT, that's nice.

Also, there are negotiations between Serbian basketball federation and Zvezda about couple of players, I'm guessing Radanov, Simanić and maybe Dobrić or Davidovac. Maybe even Kuridža. I don't know if Simonović is healthy enough to play.

Jaramaz is also back, so this is definitely nice effort from Kokoškov and federation to form as strong team as possible in front of these decisive games.

I would be shocked if Ataman will let him go to Tbilisi. Especially since Efes has game vs Fener right after that in few days. Probably Koko is knocking on Efes doors cause they let Simon play one game for Croatia and Larkin was allowed to play for Turkey in previous window, but those games were in Turkey too.

Serbian_Layup
02-03-2021, 03:07 PM
Wow!

Silence in the basketball country though...Aside some chances to have 20yo Jokubaitis.

I know it's a big sense of urgency on your side, but that is exactly why I think you will walk away with two wins. Maybe you feel the lack of effort from your federation, but it may not be the case, because it's hard to do much in these circumstances. Besides Jokubaitis, anyone else mentioned from Zalgiris?


I would be shocked if Ataman will let him go to Tbilisi. Especially since Efes has game vs Fener right after that in few days. Probably Koko is knocking on Efes doors cause they let Simon play one game for Croatia and Larkin was allowed to play for Turkey in previous window, but those games were in Turkey too.

Yes, of course, very slim chance that Micic will be with our team, but it's nice to make some kind of pressure for similar situations in the future.

Mindozas
02-03-2021, 04:52 PM
I know it's a big sense of urgency on your side, but that is exactly why I think you will walk away with two wins. Maybe you feel the lack of effort from your federation, but it may not be the case, because it's hard to do much in these circumstances. Besides Jokubaitis, anyone else mentioned from Zalgiris?

Yes, of course, very slim chance that Micic will be with our team, but it's nice to make some kind of pressure for similar situations in the future.

Blazevic should be there too, pretty much bench players like in yours Zvezda case. I get why there's no Grigonis, schedule is crazy for Zalgiris this month, but from Zalgiris side I'd surely let some Lekavicius go.

Btw, what about Guduric? He is from Koko's Fener, should be much easier to convince Gherardini. Of course there's that injury issue, but it seems nothing serious

Serbian_Layup
02-03-2021, 06:47 PM
Blazevic should be there too, pretty much bench players like in yours Zvezda case. I get why there's no Grigonis, schedule is crazy for Zalgiris this month, but from Zalgiris side I'd surely let some Lekavicius go.

Btw, what about Guduric? He is from Koko's Fener, should be much easier to convince Gherardini. Of course there's that injury issue, but it seems nothing serious

Probably because it's easier to ask Efes considering they already let Larkin and Simon play for their teams. If Kokoskov brings Guduric, Fener won't have excuse to not let De Colo play for France, Vesely for Czechs etc. And they are certainly not willing to do that at this point.

Katastroika
02-05-2021, 10:03 PM
I would be shocked if Ataman will let him go to Tbilisi. Especially since Efes has game vs Fener right after that in few days. Probably Koko is knocking on Efes doors cause they let Simon play one game for Croatia and Larkin was allowed to play for Turkey in previous window, but those games were in Turkey too.

Me too. On the other hand, if Larkin and Sanli can play for Turkey there is really no reason for Micic not playing for Serbia.

warface
02-06-2021, 09:11 AM
if micic play, serbia can win tittle, kokoskov want micic

Toruko
02-12-2021, 01:39 PM
Lithuania NT roster for the last Eurobasket 2022 QF games:

PG: Kalnietis, Šarūnas Vasiliauskas, Vaidas Kariniauskas
SG: Tomas Dimša, Mindaugas Girdžiūnas, Arnas Velička
SF: Kuzminskas, Butkevičius
PG: Mačiulis, Bendžius, Gytis Masiulis
C: Birutis, Regimantas Miniotas, Blazevic

Very tricky situation for LTU. The talented Czech team is last at the moment but LTU must be careful. They will play against Czechs in a do or die game. One loss would put enormous pressure.

Toruko
02-12-2021, 01:46 PM
Dangerous situation for Turkey too. Luckily, Hakanson and Spires are injured and Eriksson is out of the roster and we have different than the game in Sweden Larkin and Sengün on our side and also a bunch of player with good performances in Euroleague and BSL lately.

The team met up 3 days earlier than expected and the games will be played in Istanbul. It means no travel stress for our guys. It also means the Efes guys dont even need to cross the bridge.

Mindozas
02-12-2021, 01:57 PM
Lithuania NT roster for the last Eurobasket 2022 QF games:

PG: Kalnietis, Šarūnas Vasiliauskas, Vaidas Kariniauskas
SG: Tomas Dimša, Mindaugas Girdžiūnas, Arnas Velička
SF: Kuzminskas, Butkevičius
PG: Mačiulis, Bendžius, Gytis Masiulis
C: Birutis, Regimantas Miniotas, Blazevic

Very tricky situation for LTU. The talented Czech team is last at the moment but LTU must be careful. They will play against Czechs in a do or die game. One loss would put enormous pressure.

Do or die is vs Denmark, against Czechs we can even lose, but Denmark game is crucial. The biggest intrigue there if Lundberg will be allowed to play by CSKA, Danes chances depends on that hugely

Serbian_Layup
02-13-2021, 02:37 PM
Conner Frankamp got a Georgian passport and will play vs Serbia. Just in time to make it a little tough on us. :cool: Anyone following this player in ACB?

Also, is Shengelia still injured?

Mindozas
02-13-2021, 03:36 PM
Conner Frankamp got a Georgian passport and will play vs Serbia. Just in time to make it a little tough on us. :cool: Anyone following this player in ACB?

Also, is Shengelia still injured?

He didn't play vs Zenit today, but I saw him in practices, probably mostly working out individually, shooting around, so maybe it won't take long for him to return. No new about Georgian roster yet. That Frankamp guy suits Georgian team a lot, 25yo guy looking like 40yo :)

Mindozas
02-13-2021, 07:53 PM
Georgia announced squad, Shengelia won't feature in this window. McFadden, Frankamp will be there, coach will have to choose one, Shermadini should join too. Another ACB player Burjanadze also in list, Sanadze who recently joined Borac too

Mindozas
02-14-2021, 10:18 AM
Latvia trying to get Timma and Bertans from Khimki for decisive games vs Bulgaria and Greece. Interesting what will happen with Strelnieks from CSKA, as club let Bolomboy and Antonov to Russian NT after their EL game vs PAO was postponed, but window is in Russia, so no additional travelling. The same question goes with Lundberg and Denmark. All these NTs are yet to secure qualification and plays very important games

Mindozas
02-17-2021, 10:13 AM
Bad news for Bulgaria, after long tries to get Vezenkov from Oly, club didn't give the permission. That might complicate their chances vs Latvia a lot, latter still hopeful to get Timma and Bertans from Khimki, but chances are also slim. Both are fighting for the last qualification spot in group, while Greece and BiH are already qualified. They'll face each other on Saturday, Latvia would secure qualification with 7pts win, even 6 might be enough due to much better +/- (-2 vs -49). Bulgaria needs regular win vs Latvia to qualify or at least lose by 5 at most to keep chances alive

Serbian_Layup
02-19-2021, 03:02 PM
He didn't play vs Zenit today, but I saw him in practices, probably mostly working out individually, shooting around, so maybe it won't take long for him to return. No new about Georgian roster yet. That Frankamp guy suits Georgian team a lot, 25yo guy looking like 40yo :)

Hahahaha, I'm seeing it right now ;)

Katastroika
02-19-2021, 05:10 PM
Good bye FIBA qualifiers, hope to never see you again.

Petrusev really will be a hell of a player. It looks so easy with him. I didn't expect him to dominate at his debut in that way he did.

Great job by the boys. Second half was really good basketball on both ends of the floor. A lot of ball sharing, searching open players, trusting everyone on the floor. Sounds stupid, but elements of our basketball school that we grew up with it.

I also hope that naturalized American of Georgia will be okay, that injury in second half really looked bad :( Hope no ligaments issue.

Obina
02-19-2021, 06:34 PM
Petrusev is already amazing player. It will be interesting to see does he will go to nba after Mega or maybe try one season in the euroleague.

From this squad I can see only him in A selection.

Straight forward
02-19-2021, 08:11 PM
A. J. Slaughter balling for Poland, also they have American coach. 37.97 freakin millions population country. How in hell you can respect that? :D

Mindozas
02-19-2021, 09:01 PM
A. J. Slaughter balling for Poland, also they have American coach. 37.97 freakin millions population country. How in hell you can respect that? :D

It took years for you to notice that :D Taylor is coach since some 2013, Slaughter plays for Poland since 2015, before him they had Kelati, Logan. Tomorrow you might be shocked when you'll see Larkin balling for Turkey, a country with population two times bigger than Poland :))

Straight forward
02-19-2021, 11:39 PM
It took years for you to notice that :D Taylor is coach since some 2013, Slaughter plays for Poland since 2015, before him they had Kelati, Logan. Tomorrow you might be shocked when you'll see Larkin balling for Turkey, a country with population two times bigger than Poland :))

I only paid attention because we gonna play them in Kaunas. Poland never ever yet did anything that I would track them down intentionally. Turkey at least has interesting players of their own. But it's another sell out NT, that's for sure.

Straight forward
02-20-2021, 02:51 PM
Despite Sengun feasting, Turkey barely in front of Sweden. Is that crucial game for Turkey?

Toruko
02-20-2021, 03:08 PM
Despite Sengun feasting, Turkey barely in front of Sweden. Is that crucial game for Turkey?

Yes, it is. The problem is most of the guys on the court are not used to do or die games so they are afraid of making mistakes.

Bad half of Larkin but he will be activated somewhere.

janketa
02-20-2021, 03:10 PM
Despite Sengun feasting, Turkey barely in front of Sweden. Is that crucial game for Turkey?

With Melih in charge we can't expect nothing special. He is capable to make the best roster looks bad. Him and Tuncer, two streetballers.

Hazer and Ozdemiroglu deserve to play much bigger role I think. But Othun Ene is known as moron and mediocre players supporter.

Katastroika
02-20-2021, 04:00 PM
Important victory for Turkey! Good job.

I would be very happy if someone could clarify me the situation in this group. There are millions of possibilities who can go through and who can be last in group still after this game.

I really don't get it 100%. If Croats win both which results lead a) Turkey, b) Netherlands, and c) Sweden to next round?

Only thing I am 100% sure is that Netherlands and Turkey are through if they both win 1 game and Turkey and Netherlands both are through if NED beats Croatia. But if Croats win both and Swedes beat Netherlands everything really gets complicated.

Toruko
02-20-2021, 04:05 PM
Jerebko rescued Swedens butt and Bugrahan ours in the second half. The crucial mistake was playing Köksal again. Sengün and Hazer judged Sweden. They ruled, Hazer partly and Sengün the entire game. Just Bigander was able to slow him down. Sanli was goofing around but we have the difference comparison.

Straight forward
02-20-2021, 04:08 PM
Belgium destroying Denmark. I guess there's a lack of 30-40pts by Lundberg.

Katastroika
02-20-2021, 04:08 PM
If I am right potential circle is now: Turkey -4, Sweden -3, Netherlands, +7.

So Sweden is through with every victory in a potential circle and Netherlands is out if they lose more than 11 vs SWE if I am not mistaken. Still quite unclear situation.

Mindozas
02-20-2021, 04:08 PM
Always had a feeling that Bugrahan Tuncer is better than Larkin :cool:

janketa
02-20-2021, 04:11 PM
Important victory for Turkey! Good job.

I would be very happy if someone could clarify me the situation in this group. There are millions of possibilities who can go through and who can be last in group still after this game.

I really don't get it 100%. If Croats win both which results lead a) Turkey, b) Netherlands, and c) Sweden to next round?

Only thing I am 100% sure is that Netherlands and Turkey are through if they both win 1 game and Turkey and Netherlands both are through if NED beats Croatia. But if Croats win both and Swedes beat Netherlands everything really gets complicated.

If Netherlands wins tonight Sweden is out. If not, they will play against Sweden and decide who will pass.
Turkey will pass if win against Croatia or if Netherlands win one of two games.

Katastroika
02-20-2021, 04:12 PM
If Netherlands wins tonight Sweden is out. If not, they will play against Sweden and decide who will pass.
Turkey will pass if win against Croatia or if Netherlands win one of two games.

Thanks, bro.

And in case if Sweden beats Netherlands with more than 11 points Turkey is through if they lose both and Croatia beats NED. Just to complete. So I got it correctly. thanks.

janketa
02-20-2021, 04:16 PM
Sanli made the difference at the end with 3pt and stolen ball. Great guy

Tie break was crutial against Sweden, not just win

janketa
02-20-2021, 04:21 PM
Thanks, bro.

And in case if Sweden beats Netherlands with more than 11 points Turkey is through if they lose both and Croatia beats NED. Just to complete. So I got it correctly. thanks.

Sweden -3
Turkey -4
Netherlands +7

If Sweden beats them less then +12 Turkey is out in that scenario

Toruko
02-20-2021, 04:23 PM
I saw my boy Sengün shaking because of his excitement. The poor kid must carry an entire country with 18 years. :D All of our Scorers except Larkin (technically) are in the NBA but despite the others having other roles 24 Assists are not bad at all. Sengün showed again his play making potential with 3 good assists from the paint. Just his pick and roll game with Tuncer and Larkin must be better coordinated.

Katastroika
02-20-2021, 04:24 PM
Sweden -3
Turkey -4
Netherlands +7

If Sweden beats them less then +12 Turkey is out in that scenario

Yeah, but that's what I said :)

By the way I don't know one player of this Greek team. This is really a total capitulation for FIBA and a big shame what they are doing for basketball. Nothing new, but just to mention again.

janketa
02-20-2021, 04:30 PM
Yeah, but that's what I said :)


Yes:D

Toruko
02-20-2021, 04:31 PM
Yeah, but that's what I said :)

By the way I don't know one player of this Greek team. This is really a total capitulation for FIBA and a big shame what they are doing for basketball. Nothing new, but just to mention again.

There is a kid 2001 born. Was making waves last season. Zois Karampelas. Mouratos has been playing a great season in Greece in Lavrio if I am not mistaken. He should be born 96 or 97, play maker. Moraitis 99 born too. The next generation of play maker if you want it that way.

Katastroika
02-20-2021, 04:40 PM
There is a kid 2001 born. Was making waves last season. Zois Karampelas. Mouratos has been playing a great season in Greece in Lavrio if I am not mistaken. He should be born 96 or 97, play maker. Moraitis 99 born too. The next generation of play maker if you want it that way.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/vasileios-mouratos-1.html
If this is a great season I don't want to know what is a bad one :)

Generally this is not Greece B but Greece C and shows how idiotic this qualifiers are. If they make it, they should make it outside NBA and EL season.

I said even during qualifiers for World Cup. Why not making round robbing tournament in 14 days in one summer and complete qualifiers. 4-6 games and everything is finished. FIBA also now has format to let play Luxembourg, Andorra and Azerbaijan two years before their first round qualifiers, everything could be completed until 1 year before major tournaments and we all could see our best players and not this circus like it is now. You have at least some A players, but many countries play this qualifiers literally without whole team. This is really not the sense of it.

Toruko
02-20-2021, 06:52 PM
OK since NL beat Croatia we are qualified. I think the Sarica change was needed even though risky. We avoided a catastrophe in the last second and can play the last game with ease.

Katastroika
02-20-2021, 07:22 PM
Latvians must feel horrible. Excellent team that most likely misses consecutive tournaments. Incredible.

Shawshank
02-20-2021, 07:22 PM
Latvia lost one more heartbreak by 1 point to Bulgaria (65-66) and not qualified to eurobasket 2022.

Nobody would have believed that Latvian golden generation by their standarts who gave final worthy fight in eurobasket 2017 to Slovenia simply cant qualife to any fiba tournament since...

in 2017 summer Latvia and Lithuania played friendly game with full rosters and Latvia beat us in Riga .At that time their was seriuos talks/discusion who has more tallent overall ... and seeing what is going on with Latvians now is painfull.

I just hope 2 days from now nothing similiar will happen with Lithuania NT. We will be playing our do or die game on Monday too.

R1ou
02-20-2021, 07:23 PM
Good job from Fiba to screw Latvia yet again. Not to take anything from Bulgaria but this is an absolute shitfest having most teams lacking 10 to 12 main players from their squads just because these Fiba oligarchs decided to put some kind of qualification through the season and not at summer, knowing no NBA player would ever take part at it.

Toruko
02-20-2021, 07:25 PM
Its a big loss not to see Porzingis, Strelnieks, Bertan brohs and many more in Eurobasket.

Toruko
02-20-2021, 07:41 PM
Can someone inform me about LTUs situation. Are you guys qualified? Mindozas? :D

Mindozas
02-20-2021, 07:44 PM
Can someone inform me about LTUs situation. Are you guys qualified? Mindozas? :D

We are not yet. It will be us or Denmark on Monday. But I'm quite calm this time. I liked our energy, attitude tonight and Denmark looked horrible vs Belgium, so I don't know what should happen for us to lose


Regarding Latvia, well FUCK YOU FIBA once again

Dtown
02-20-2021, 09:38 PM
France beats Montenegro and locks up a spot for them and surprise Great Britain.

Mindozas
02-21-2021, 07:03 AM
France beats Montenegro and locks up a spot for them and surprise Great Britain.

And eliminates Montenegro as another victim of this system.

Btw, this hosts participation in qualies and having their W/L count in standings is such an absurd too. I'm ok if teams participates, they have to do that somewhere, but if they already are in, don't count their games into overall standings, leave 3 teams group and 2 qualifying spots, without any influence of teams which is not in question

SaliH
02-21-2021, 11:52 AM
Bulgaria is a potential dark horse of the tournament. Don’t look at me like that... ��

Dtown
02-21-2021, 01:24 PM
And eliminates Montenegro as another victim of this system.

Btw, this hosts participation in qualies and having their W/L count in standings is such an absurd too. I'm ok if teams participates, they have to do that somewhere, but if they already are in, don't count their games into overall standings, leave 3 teams group and 2 qualifying spots, without any influence of teams which is not in question

While you're right overall, in this particular case Germany wasn't a factor. If you discounted all the Germany games in this group the order of the standings would be the same. Great Britain getting in was down to their two games with Montenegro.

Katastroika
02-21-2021, 01:56 PM
While you're right overall, in this particular case Germany wasn't a factor. If you discounted all the Germany games in this group the order of the standings would be the same. Great Britain getting in was down to their two games with Montenegro.

As you wrote I think he meant that this is a problem in conception and not particularly for Germany.. And he is right. It's not just for Germany, look at Italy. They lost with a D team against Northern Macedonia today. It's simply irregular.

Before 5 years and Euro in Turkey Spaniards put a lot of pressure on FIBA over Garbajosa and even said if this goes on they want to organize something like a parallel competition. I hope that major and influential European countries will sit on a table with FIBA and say ultimately no. This cases of Latvia and Slovenia for Mundobasket show that this format is not just not suitable for quality but also changes the map of basketball. In fact major countries are punished because they have good players that play NBA and EL. This is ridiculous.

BiHBasket
02-21-2021, 04:00 PM
FIBA underestimated their own competition, they didn't expected that so many huge basketball nations will struggle in this system and now Latvia is out. Maybe that will make them change something, European Championship without marketable team as Latvia is a blow for FIBA.

janketa
02-21-2021, 05:51 PM
F..k Fiba and their competitions, their champions league etc... Morons
Qualifier tournaments for WC and EC, that's enough. Windows are stupid decision.

vivo
02-22-2021, 08:31 AM
I support that even the smallest European countries have a chance to go to the Eurobasket - but having the actual, final qualification during the season is an idiotic move... At this point it's a toss-up which management is more incompetent, Euroleague or FIBA Europe

Toruko
02-22-2021, 01:20 PM
To Lithuanians...

I want to watch LTUs last game. Do you guys have a link of the broadcaster?

Mindozas
02-22-2021, 02:03 PM
To Lithuanians...

I want to watch LTUs last game. Do you guys have a link of the broadcaster?

I don't think there'll be some official stream, at least for free. One commercial channel (TV3) broadcasts NT games nowadays

vivo
02-22-2021, 02:06 PM
To Lithuanians...

I want to watch LTUs last game. Do you guys have a link of the broadcaster?

It's later today I think, not now. You can try buffstreams, it works for EST - MKD right now

Katastroika
02-22-2021, 03:15 PM
Toruko - I watch usually games that aren't broadcasted in Serbian TV on jokerstream.net - in 90% they have absolutely okay streams. Alternative is livetv.sx - one of the two usually works good.

Toruko
02-22-2021, 03:24 PM
Toruko - I watch usually games that aren't broadcasted in Serbian TV on jokerstream.net - in 90% they have absolutely okay streams. Alternative is livetv.sx - one of the two usually works good.

Thank you dudes. Normally, i prefer using official broadcaster but I must watch this game. An Eurobasket without Lithuania is not imaginable. Latvia was a gut punch.

janketa
02-22-2021, 03:26 PM
Ola TV. On android box all channels could be watch

Hepcat
02-22-2021, 06:24 PM
So it's Lietuva 41 Denmark 37 at the half. The Lithuanian team is letting Denmark stay within striking distance just like in November.

:eek:

madmax
02-22-2021, 07:11 PM
So it's Lietuva 41 Denmark 37 at the half. The Lithuanian team is letting Denmark stay within striking distance just like in November.

:eek:

I'm convinced by now that not even Lebron and Durant on our team would be enough to qualify for the Olympics with this coach...it would be funny really if it wouldn't be so sad:(

Katastroika
02-22-2021, 07:17 PM
That was really close. Congratulations, Lithuanians. You deserved a beer or two tonight.

Straight forward
02-22-2021, 07:25 PM
I stand corrected. Hat off to Kalnietis. We survived a nightmare. With all due respect I hope Maskoliunas will be long gone after Olympic games.

Mindozas
02-22-2021, 07:25 PM
That was really close. Congratulations, Lithuanians. You deserved a beer or two tonight.

Thnx, but beer won't do, you need some liter of vodka to erase this evening and all these qualies from memory :) Good that this crappy qualifiers are finally over

Toruko
02-22-2021, 07:28 PM
Congrats but the last position could be a foul tbh.

Straight forward
02-22-2021, 07:29 PM
Congrats but the last position could be a foul tbh.

Wasn't all that obvious that you would call it.

Shawshank
02-22-2021, 07:35 PM
When its all over Mantas Kalnietis deserved a right to sit at the same honorable LTU guard table with Sarunas Marciulionis and Sarunas Jasikevicius for his efforts in last 15 years wearing LTU jersey.

Mindozas
02-22-2021, 07:38 PM
Congrats but the last position could be a foul tbh.

It looked like clear block, mate, from some 3 angles it was replayed on our TV

Straight forward
02-22-2021, 07:50 PM
When you think about, we will have three FIBA qualification tournaments at home in a row :) Fiba gave us a slack after these horrible refs in WC. I understand Demnark's coach complains. To be honest, I still can't forgive Maskoliunas that he with his attitude put Lithuania under all this and we survived by a pure chance. I would put him aside already if I could.

Toruko
02-22-2021, 08:09 PM
After all teams are clear right now I can write a bit about Turkeys game. First of all, Shanes energy was phenomenal. He gave everything that he had and I must say in both games we showed serious basketball with a clear strategy. I can see Enes signing on the team. Orhun Ene who is one of the best point guards that Turkey every produced knows to come up with a plan with given player pool.

The next point that made me happy we havent relied on Larkin too much. From players side we can count on Alperen Sengün and Sehmus Hazer from now on. Of course they have tons of weaknesses right now for instance Sengüns weak legs and Hazers shooting etc. but they can contribute on this level under pressure.

The main issue is creativity. Larkin showed the last two games how shitty we are in this play making position. Sengün and Hazer have helped too but Bugrahan Tuncer is crucial atm. despite his sloppiness and ups and downs. I think that we need to implement Mert Akay next year too. The next area needing improvements is Ersan Ilyasovas replacement. Berkan Durmaz and Metecan Birsen cant fill the gap. There are 2-3 really interesting guys for the future but they need at least 2 more years.

For the olympic qualifiers Larkin, Korkmaz, Osman, Ilyasova, Yurtseven, Sengün, Mahmutoglu, Hazer and Sanli should be save.

Toruko
02-22-2021, 08:22 PM
Let me add something. Maybe you watched Sengün games or not and I dont really know if he plays EL next season or stays with Besiktas but I claim he is one of the best Rebounder in Europe maybe the best. Never saw something like this since Mirsad Türkcan. He will be a tremendous Rebounder with strong legs and filled up body.

Serbian_Layup
02-22-2021, 09:04 PM
Congrats to Liths, but also to Danes, they showed a lot of heart. Watched the last quarter, it was a real scare for Lithuania. Games like this show how much psychology and mental preparation is important in game of favorites and underdogs. OQT will be something similar.

I haven't watched much of Alperen Sengun, but he is good. Very agile and well coordinated. Skilled around the basket and very bouncy. I don't know if his future is at C though. He's a bit undersized, but doesn't have to be a big knock on him facing taller and stronger guys if he uses his athleticism and agility in smart ways. And especially if he improves his outside shot.

janketa
02-22-2021, 09:35 PM
Sanli and Larkin are such serious players and showed top EL level in both games. Hazer and Sengun showed potential , especially Hazer.

I can't wait to see Cedi and Larkin on the court together.

Melih is ex player, even spot up shooting is problem for him now. His only quality started to vanish.

vivo
02-22-2021, 09:52 PM
I think ironically Şengün is a perfect big for Euroleague - his only weakness as it seems are his quickness (legs) and his arms not being long enough to defend NBA bigs consistently. Of course he is too good to stay in Europe, he will be a lottery pick probably, but to compensate for lack of agility the bigs must be extremely skilled in NBA or they can't stay on the court. This means Şengün needs a reliable outside shot, as well as keep being a good rebounder and passer

janketa
02-22-2021, 10:09 PM
Hazer just needs to gain some muscles and he will be ok. Technics and character are present, even shooting will be ok because his mechanics is quite good.

I am not such big optimist about Sengun. With 18y he must already have feeling for situations around basket. It's not shooting problem but head.

He is undersized and the only way for him is to start shooting instead of endless trying to provoke foul. If he continues this way he will be just one more offensive jumper and nothing more. As I see he isn't such awful shooter but he must use that in the game. It's the only way

Toruko
02-22-2021, 10:19 PM
I think ironically Şengün is a perfect big for Euroleague - his only weakness as it seems are his quickness (legs) and his arms not being long enough to defend NBA bigs consistently. Of course he is too good to stay in Europe, he will be a lottery pick probably, but to compensate for lack of agility the bigs must be extremely skilled in NBA or they can't stay on the court. This means Şengün needs a reliable outside shot, as well as keep being a good rebounder and passer

Absolutely correct. He must evolve to a shooting big. He has the touch to make at least the open ones. I dont have any concerns about passing and rebounding. He just needs to get stronger, especially his legs. Thats why i am against using him in youth tournaments anymore. He has more or less the same problems as Domantas Sabonis.

Mindozas
02-23-2021, 07:11 AM
When you think about, we will have three FIBA qualification tournaments at home in a row :) Fiba gave us a slack after these horrible refs in WC. I understand Demnark's coach complains. To be honest, I still can't forgive Maskoliunas that he with his attitude put Lithuania under all this and we survived by a pure chance. I would put him aside already if I could.

Maskoliunas did nothing extraordinary, that's true, even tho his move with going to small ball changed the course of the game and I was sceptical about it when saw it. But not only coach is to blame for this, it was not him who made dumb fouls in 2+1 situations or with Danes shooting 3s, left rivals open or missed easy shots. Let's just realize that our B unit is far away from A team and especially it was seen how they dealt with that psychologically. They are not used to such games. Thnx bball gods that vets stepped up and saved us from this big shame, as at one point 1993 Poland already was popping into my memory :)
Talking about FIBA. FIBA and guilt can't come into one sentence. After Adomaitis press-conference it was more likely that they will give us nothing at all, but FIBA is emotionless greedy bastards. Simply there were not much options to choose from during these windows and our federation is known for great organizational skills, so thnx to them and sponsors, cause it was basically money thrown away holding an even without fans. Pretty much the case with ~3mln for OQT all the federations had to pay. FIBA is all about money, but if some Euroleague doesn't hide it, FIBA still tries to prove us that all they does is for the love of the game.... I bet that in next interview their bosses will come out with the same crap like it was very another successful qualifiers and it works great.

Talking as a whole, as yesterday results proved even France was basically one shot away from elimination, it was enough for them to lose vs Montenegro and that only loss vs Germany would have cost them Eurobasket, a Germany which played for nothing all qualifiers. France, Serbia, Lithuania, Turkey escaped, Latvia didn't. Montenegro felt short without Dubljevic and Vucevic. I'm a bit sad for Sweden too. I liked them more than Netherlands and felt that they more potential for Eurobasket, but also it was their "problem" that all their best 3 players plays in Euroleague...

Recp
02-23-2021, 10:25 AM
Another step forward by the upcoming generation, its been pretty interesting to follow their progress.

https://g1.nh.ee/images/pix/1000x654/NyR7DaolC4w/korvpallikoondis-92645813.jpg

Straight forward
02-23-2021, 02:13 PM
Mindozas, I think greediness is universal norm of most organizations. The same EL wasn't flexible at all in searching for a decent solution. Imagine EL and FIBA agreed on one week consensus and we would see completely different FIBA qualification. Would that ruin EL season? I don't think so, but money and egos speak there as the factor I'm guessing. On other hand, I'm silently happy about these windows. I'm happy how a kid Jokubaitis, who at that time didn't even had a role in EL, lead us for a win against Czech Rep. I'm happy for such young and upcoming NTs as Estonia who not only made it which is a huge thing for them, but might a strong team in the mid of 20s. Wouldn't it be a bit boring if Serbia, France, Spain, Lithuania always share top spots? It's good that sometimes we see some underdogs going high and some of teams will do that this decade as well.

Mindozas
02-23-2021, 03:00 PM
Mindozas, I think greediness is universal norm of most organizations. The same EL wasn't flexible at all in searching for a decent solution. Imagine EL and FIBA agreed on one week consensus and we would see completely different FIBA qualification. Would that ruin EL season? I don't think so, but money and egos speak there as the factor I'm guessing. On other hand, I'm silently happy about these windows. I'm happy how a kid Jokubaitis, who at that time didn't even had a role in EL, lead us for a win against Czech Rep. I'm happy for such young and upcoming NTs as Estonia who not only made it which is a huge thing for them, but might a strong team in the mid of 20s. Wouldn't it be a bit boring if Serbia, France, Spain, Lithuania always share top spots? It's good that sometimes we see some underdogs going high and some of teams will do that this decade as well.

Started to work for FIBA? :) Man, come on, "boring" as an argument? Tell it to Latvian bball fans now. They are "bored" since 2017 and for sure now will be bored for another 2 years at least, when their golden generation is balling around the world. That's only one example, we had others too. And that's cause someone was not bored, but needed to do smth about promotion of World Cup and fill own pockets with more money. EL is no saints, far from that, but both organizations worked side by side for years under the same system, but it was FIBA which made this havoc now and I wrote the reason why. It's not promotion of sports, it's purely money when their darling World Champ started to decline. They not only created this madness with qualifiers, but killed Eurobasket for the sake of it.
This system goes against every principle of sports. You must have a chance to field your best players and compete with best team and this way decide what you worth, where you stand right now in bball ladder. That's what I'm interested in, I don't want some fake achievements. It doesn't matter if one NT will dominate for years, decades, centuries. It's sports, it must work this way. You must beat the best on court. Otherwise we can go again to banning NBA pros cause USA dominates Olympics, then go and ban over 190cm players like it was done 100 years ago, cause some countries can't find bigs (it even was done to some extent with naturalizations). This not the basketball I want to see and game I love

Katastroika
02-23-2021, 04:28 PM
Mindozas, I think greediness is universal norm of most organizations. The same EL wasn't flexible at all in searching for a decent solution. Imagine EL and FIBA agreed on one week consensus and we would see completely different FIBA qualification. Would that ruin EL season? I don't think so, but money and egos speak there as the factor I'm guessing. On other hand, I'm silently happy about these windows. I'm happy how a kid Jokubaitis, who at that time didn't even had a role in EL, lead us for a win against Czech Rep. I'm happy for such young and upcoming NTs as Estonia who not only made it which is a huge thing for them, but might a strong team in the mid of 20s. Wouldn't it be a bit boring if Serbia, France, Spain, Lithuania always share top spots? It's good that sometimes we see some underdogs going high and some of teams will do that this decade as well.

This is totally wrong perception in my eyes, my friend. Of course other countries than Top 5 in Europe deserve to make good results - but they have to earn it. A great quote from genius Marin Sedlacek during Serbia - Georgia game a few days ago as co-commentator fits in very well here - "In basketball it's like in real life - you get opportunities and it's very important to recognize them and use them properly".

I am also bored by watching FIFA World Cup and Euro and consider it refreshing that a team like Croatia or Portugal go to the end and that it's not always France, Spain, Germany, Brazil but if you ask me to make qualifiers with Serbian A team and France C team I wouldn't be happy either, if we beat them.

The main problem of this format is, like Mindozas wrote, ego and stubborness of both FIBA and EL. A minimal adaption would have helped everybody. I buy your argument that young players get the chance but generally history shows, at least in some quality countries, that worst thing that you can do is give a young player a preference in treatment. It weakens him in long terms. Quality always prevails. Sometimes it takes longer, and it shows up after taking some branches, but it prevails.

This qualifiers have been horrible and had no quality (most important fact to me).

Victorious
02-24-2021, 12:15 PM
There are more flipsides we have to consider. Some A teams will not perform according to full potential during the tournaments. This is because the players haven't played together for possibly years. At the end of the day basketball is a team sport. Likewise, some of the teams which qualified will play with the same teams, because they were playing with full potential.

Solely from a basketball perspective, it would be great to see A class teams play their best basketball.

Everyone agrees that seeing national teams play official games during she season, at home, is great for the game. This problem between FIBA and EL has to be solved. It's bad for basketball. We need to respect the national teams. If a solution can't be found, the presidents of the EL and FIBA have to be replaced. Especially the EL.

Perhaps we, as fans, can send an open letter to Bertomeu and FIBA. Asking for a solution. Some 10.000 autographs will do.

Mindozas
02-24-2021, 02:11 PM
There are more flipsides we have to consider. Some A teams will not perform according to full potential during the tournaments. This is because the players haven't played together for possibly years. At the end of the day basketball is a team sport. Likewise, some of the teams which qualified will play with the same teams, because they were playing with full potential.

Solely from a basketball perspective, it would be great to see A class teams play their best basketball.

Everyone agrees that seeing national teams play official games during she season, at home, is great for the game. This problem between FIBA and EL has to be solved. It's bad for basketball. We need to respect the national teams. If a solution can't be found, the presidents of the EL and FIBA have to be replaced. Especially the EL.

Perhaps we, as fans, can send an open letter to Bertomeu and FIBA. Asking for a solution. Some 10.000 autographs will do.

I'm afraid even 100k won't help. Federations once tried to fight FIBA, nothing worked. What they achieved that FIBA stopped blackmailing them with suspensions. Too much money on stake to reconsider their decisions. It's impossible to kick Bertomeu from his post, the same is with FIBA. Their leaders were changing, but absolutely nothing changed. It's like mythical Hydra, you might cut one head, but always new one grows up and the story continues. It seems like only a close circle of trustworthy people are allowed to join. Rotten organization. I literally don't know what should happen for things to change. We could live with previous system more or less, not perfect, however best players had a chance to join for main tournaments who served as qualies, but with current one it's basically impossible to get best players for windows, even if by some miracle EL would let players out, NBA will never allow that and there're many players playing there who could contribute big time for their respective NTs and change face of it or as you say glue connections with teammates. Let alone Europe, imagine some Cameroon with Siakam and Embiid. Also FIBA tends to close their eyes on that, they talks how windows help to popularize bball in smaller nations and that's the main purpose of it, but stay silent about what kind of impact NBA players could do for their NTs, cause it simply does not suit their position. So this windows system was doomed ever since it was created. I don't see any solution for now

Recp
02-25-2021, 08:21 AM
This is totally wrong perception in my eyes, my friend. Of course other countries than Top 5 in Europe deserve to make good results - but they have to earn it. A great quote from genius Marin Sedlacek during Serbia - Georgia game a few days ago as co-commentator fits in very well here - "In basketball it's like in real life - you get opportunities and it's very important to recognize them and use them properly".

I am also bored by watching FIFA World Cup and Euro and consider it refreshing that a team like Croatia or Portugal go to the end and that it's not always France, Spain, Germany, Brazil but if you ask me to make qualifiers with Serbian A team and France C team I wouldn't be happy either, if we beat them.

The main problem of this format is, like Mindozas wrote, ego and stubborness of both FIBA and EL. A minimal adaption would have helped everybody. I buy your argument that young players get the chance but generally history shows, at least in some quality countries, that worst thing that you can do is give a young player a preference in treatment. It weakens him in long terms. Quality always prevails. Sometimes it takes longer, and it shows up after taking some branches, but it prevails.

This qualifiers have been horrible and had no quality (most important fact to me).

You tend to miss the fact that weaker teams may also be forced to play without their leaders. And since their pool of quality players is significantly smaller it sometimes may hit them even harder than it would hit heavy-weight basketball countries.

Also, the question should not only be about Euroleague or NBA players, but also NCAA players. Just to bring you an example - while Maik Kotsar was plying his trade in NCAA, Estonia had to play several qualifiers without its main center as he could participate only in selected matches. Now we have Kerr Kriisa at Arizona and Matthias Tass at St Mary's in similar situations and it will be quite difficult to get them to the national team.

The smaller teams also have their problems. It is rather unfair to think that they earn their results with no merits and can always play with their A-teams.

Katastroika
02-25-2021, 08:53 AM
That's a fair point. The more important it is to bring the truth on the court by playing A players. I think a fair solution to all countries like in every other normal sports federation for international competition.

Toruko
02-25-2021, 12:07 PM
The problems of those windows are obvious and known. The quality of the games are bad, some countries are disadvantaged and there are big problems in terms of losing important bb countries on the way but there are also advantages like making smaller countries more important and making the basketball community bigger.

I am ok with the current status because it gives new player a chance to be integrated to the team. Look at the young guys who raised their head. Sengün, Spagnolo, Petrusev, Prkacin, van der vuurst etc. Europe needs to produce better guys, more than the NBA can ever take.

Mindozas
02-25-2021, 12:34 PM
The problems of those windows are obvious and known. The quality of the games are bad, some countries are disadvantaged and there are big problems in terms of losing important bb countries on the way but there are also advantages like making smaller countries more important and making the basketball community bigger.

I am ok with the current status because it gives new player a chance to be integrated to the team. Look at the young guys who raised their head. Sengün, Spagnolo, Petrusev, Prkacin, van der vuurst etc. Europe needs to produce better guys, more than the NBA can ever take.

First part of your post is much more important than second, cause we are talking exactly about qualifiers, not some talent or NT camp, where youth can get their chances. Imagine how much some team losses for not being able to play on biggest scene. How much Latvia is losing being out of it for 6 years now at least. Purpose for qualifiers must be to select the best teams for one or other tournament, simple as that. It's ok that we might look for some positives in this mess, we simply have nothing left to choose from. But it's not the way things should work generally