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Levenspiel
12-18-2019, 09:16 AM
The tournament will be held in Victoria between June 23-28, 2020.





Group
Team
Qualification
FIBA World Ranking


A
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Flag_of_Lithuania.svg/23px-Flag_of_Lithuania.svg.png Lithuania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania_men%27s_national_basketball_team)
9th at the 2019 WC
8th


A
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Flag_of_South_Korea.svg/23px-Flag_of_South_Korea.svg.png South Korea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea_national_basketball_team)
Wild Card
30th


A
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Flag_of_Venezuela.svg/23px-Flag_of_Venezuela.svg.png Venezuela (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela_national_basketball_team)
14th at the 2019 WC
20th








B
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/12/Flag_of_Poland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Poland.svg.png Poland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_national_basketball_team)
8th at the 2019 WC
13th


B
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Flag_of_Slovenia.svg/23px-Flag_of_Slovenia.svg.png Slovenia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia_national_basketball_team)
Wild Card
16th


B
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Flag_of_Angola.svg/23px-Flag_of_Angola.svg.png Angola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angola_national_basketball_team)
Wild Card
32nd




The first two teams of each group qualifies, and play each other to reach the final. The winner of the final goes to the Olympics.

G&B
02-13-2020, 08:07 PM
I hope we get to the Olympics where we have a very strong team claiming medals:

PG: Lekavicius; PG: Jokubaitis / PG, SG: Kalnietis / PG: Velicka

PG, SG, SF: Grigonis; SG, SF: Giedraitis; (SG: Milaknis)

SF, PF: Kuzminskas; SF: Ulanovas; SG, SF: Butkevicius / SG, SF: Brazdeikis / SG, SF: Sirvydis

PF, C: Sabonis, PF, C: Motiejūnas; PF: Echodas / PF: Masiulis / SF, PF: Bendzius

C: Valanciunas, C: Gudaitis

Dtown
02-24-2020, 02:32 AM
If Slovenia has their best team, including a health Doncic, I favor them slightly. A final between them and Lithuania could be a good watch.

Italian Pride
02-28-2020, 11:43 AM
If Slovenia has their best team, including a health Doncic, I favor them slightly. A final between them and Lithuania could be a good watch.

Doncic-Nikolic
Prepelic-blazic
Muric-dragic
Jordan morgan-cancar
Omic-vidmar

Is this the best possible roster for them?

Straight forward
02-28-2020, 12:34 PM
I was about to ask the same. Anyone from Slovenians care to give explicit review on the talent level of current G. Dragic, Randolf less Slovenia?

soulis79
02-28-2020, 02:14 PM
Doncic-Nikolic
Prepelic-blazic
Muric-dragic
Jordan morgan-cancar
Omic-vidmar

Is this the best possible roster for them?

It's Omic or Morgan. Both of them can't work. Omic counts as a naturalized player, too. Sisko also might be a useful addition. Slovenia needs at least a sevenfooter in order to match-up with Valanciunas.

P.S. I am not sure if Vidmar is still available to play for national team.

Italian Pride
02-28-2020, 08:57 PM
Omic naturalized player?he took the passport before 18 ys old

Toruko
02-28-2020, 09:24 PM
Omic naturalized player?he took the passport before 18 ys old

You must be younger than 16. In exceptions also older is possible but only in exceptions.

Killer Bob
03-01-2020, 07:40 PM
It's Omic or Morgan. Both of them can't work. Omic counts as a naturalized player, too. Sisko also might be a useful addition. Slovenia needs at least a sevenfooter in order to match-up with Valanciunas.

P.S. I am not sure if Vidmar is still available to play for national team.

Vidmar is available but has knee problems.

Killer Bob
03-11-2020, 10:05 PM
Slovenia negotiating with Itoudis.

Straight forward
11-02-2020, 08:22 PM
Imagine such rosters:

Lithuania:

Kalnietis, Lekavicius, Jokubaitis
Grigonis, R. Giedraitis
Ulanovas, Kuzminskas
Sabonis, Maciulis, Sedekerskis
Valanciunas, Gudaitis

Slovenia

Doncic, A. Nikolić
Prepelic, Z. Dragic, Z.Sisko
V. Cancar, J. Blažič
J. Morgan, E. Muric
G. Vidmar, Ž. Dimec

Who would win?

It's closer than I actually thought. Now Slovenia has best Euro FIBA player in the planet without single doubt and likely best FIBA players of the world overall. Prepelic, Dragic, Morgan and currently in NBA Cancar are all EL level players (Sisko also plays in EL with a little role). On other hand a bit soft and liable defensively and rather naked at frontline.

Lithuania has much more balance, all EL quality generally, increasing guard rotation, but no true game changer or finisher.

It's sad to say, because Lithuania is so much deeper and more fundamental, for one crazy do or die game, Slovenia has an edge. They simply have more guts and sharper teeth to make things from perimeter, to kill the beast with skill and scoring punch. Lithuania's chances would lay in three first quarters, if there's no obvious separation, Slovenia has much more tools in their hands. It's not only Doncic who is a nightmare in FIBA and noone will let him go without plus 20 and some 8 assists, 8 rebounds, but also Prepelic has killers instincts as he showed in 2007EB, plus Zoran Dragic is very much alive still.

If Slovenia comes without Doncic, it's 70/30 Lithuania takes it, if not more.

Mindozas
11-02-2020, 08:54 PM
If there'll be no Doncic, then it might be vital who will coach Slovenia... I'm not following their situation lately on that matter, does they negotiate with someone, but without Doncic they would rely on coaching a lot, especially since Maskoliunas is yet to impress, that could be a key for Slovenian chances

Toruko
11-02-2020, 09:02 PM
Its Slovenia without a doubt. Rosterwise the first 2 spots are more important than the last two. Lithuanias bigs need its guards to create and with the pair Kalnietis/ Grigonis you cant use efficient your big advantage. Sabonis would probably be able to create for himself and in a restricted way for others but JV is totally dependent and needs creation from others.

I dont see any Lithuanian guard to stop either Doncic let alone Dragic who is too fast and versatile for European guards. Bringing Lekavicius against Doncic would be like throwing a chicken in a serpents cave. And I dont want to sound respectless but Kalnietis is also famous for his defense.

So what do we have here. Lithuanian Guards that cant stop their opponents and have trouble to create. Doncic as well as Dragic are everything else than solid defenders but Doncic is huge and cause Kalnietis big problems.

But why calculate with Dragic who declared his retirement? Well, without Dragic despite Doncic the disadvantages of the other 4 spots would be too overwhelming. Not a big problem for Lithuania.

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 05:16 AM
Those Slovenian role players are definitely not to be underestimated. Prepelič, Nikolić, Blažič, Murić, Šiško, Čančar...they are capable players even without Dončić. Lithuania is favorite but that should be interesting game. Importance of the game, home court pressure, expectations...those are all factors to deal with for Lithuania being a clear favourite. Coaching will also be huge in this one.

Katastroika
11-03-2020, 07:39 AM
Lithuania, on the other side, often beats stronger opponents on paper with fanatic defense and beating up key opponent players. If refs decide to let a "hard criteria" it goes in their favour. No need to undervalue Lithuania. Best system in all national teams in Europe. Players look ofter better than in their clubs. With or without Doncic, I really don't see that Slovenia is favourite here. Anyways, would love to see Dragic one last time as their federation tries to get connected with him about this issue. Fucking calendar will make it impossible unfortunately.

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 07:53 AM
Lithuania, on the other side, often beats stronger opponents on paper with fanatic defense and beating up key opponent players. If refs decide to let a "hard criteria" it goes in their favour. No need to undervalue Lithuania. Best system in all national teams in Europe. Players look ofter better than in their clubs. With or without Doncic, I really don't see that Slovenia is favourite here. Anyways, would love to see Dragic one last time as their federation tries to get connected with him about this issue. Fucking calendar will make it impossible unfortunately.

Slovenia is definitely not a favorite here, Lithuania has many advantages over them, but I think they won't be easy to deal with.

Katastroika
11-03-2020, 07:58 AM
Agree. Would be one of the best qualification matches in all 4 tournaments.

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 08:29 AM
Lithuania, on the other side, often beats stronger opponents on paper with fanatic defense and beating up key opponent players. If refs decide to let a "hard criteria" it goes in their favour. No need to undervalue Lithuania. Best system in all national teams in Europe. Players look ofter better than in their clubs. With or without Doncic, I really don't see that Slovenia is favourite here. Anyways, would love to see Dragic one last time as their federation tries to get connected with him about this issue. Fucking calendar will make it impossible unfortunately.

Well, during Kazlauskas' tenure, Liths had a clear system based on their defense. Since his departure, I think they have been struggling to rediscover their identity. Defense hasn't been that good, and offense has been stagnant without proper ball movement. Now, with Jokubaitis and some new emerging offensively oriented players offense should be better, and it will be interesting to see will they make a shift in their identity, because now they have more assets to build better offense than defense.

Katastroika
11-03-2020, 09:15 AM
Generally I still see a lot of structure in their games. I could even see it during our friendly games before WC in Belgrade and Kaunas. We beat them with quite wild run and gun but they (except 3rd quarter in Kaunas where they had to risk) simply played their sets down in both games.

For me Lithuania 2015 is a masterpiece of making every player better than he is in a system, Kuzminskas looked like LeBron, Kauzlaskas as genius coach, as you said surely was something little different than now, but I still see chances quite high that they will be fanatically playing defense. It's simply their nature, also in WC when they didn't advance they played formidable defense both against FRA and AUS and to be honest with you I think they were better team in both games as far as I remember.

Future is high for Lithuania. I love games against them - it's a wealthy decade builded rivalry that is always hard fought. I really would like to play Lietuva in Olympics and have high admiration for their basketball principles. Players are intelligent, well trained and schooled. Many similarities to our philosophy besides all differences.

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 09:49 AM
They will have more depth and more talent than in some previous years, top 5 contenders in any competition probably, assuming Jokubaitis and some other players continue their development. Most important for them, I think, their guard rotation will be much better. Kalnietis/Lekavicius/Jokubaitis + Grigonis/Giedraitis is much better guard ratation than before. They don't have to depend on Kalnietis all that much anymore, they have a nice shooter in Giedraitis, emerging Jokubaitis and much better Lekavicius, with Sabonis/Valanciunas and couple of more good role players like Ulanovas and Kuzminskas, they are in a good position.

Katastroika
11-03-2020, 09:55 AM
They will have more depth and more talent than in some previous years, top 5 contenders in any competition probably, assuming Jokubaitis and some other players continue their development. Most important for them, I think, their guard rotation will be much better. Kalnietis/Lekavicius/Jokubaitis + Grigonis/Giedraitis is much better guard ratation than before. They don't have to depend on Kalnietis all that much anymore, they have a nice shooter in Giedraitis, emerging Jokubaitis and much better Lekavicius, with Sabonis/Valanciunas and couple of more good role players like Ulanovas and Kuzminskas, they are in a good position.

Completely agree. Just to add that one of my favourite European players, Grigonis adds a new dimension to his game this season. He isn't just a shooter, he penetrates, he finishes under contact. He reminds on Bogdan Bogdanovic.

Straight forward
11-03-2020, 10:13 AM
Toruko, I meant Zoran Dragic, not Goran :) If Goran would participate it would be completely other story, but even with Doncic alone, I think Slovenia has an obvious edge closing the games. That's the biggest issue of Lithuania. Grigonis has been stepping up, but we don't have elite game finisher as of yet.


Basically, Lithuania is a true game changer or ISO scorer away from more or less reaching true elite level again because our overall quality is increasing lately and it should stay this way till some mid 20's. Not only Jokubaitis is prevailing, but also big prospects in Tubelis, Marciulionis, Brazdeikis, Murauskas coming soon, not mentioning quality prospects in Sirvydis, Velicka, D.Giedraitis, Sedekerskis, Kulboka. After dreadful decline since 2008, we finally witnessing obvious growth.


Nothing much to add to solid discussion between Katastroika and Serbian_Layup other than that our coaching is huge liability. While Adomaitis did pretty well, he still made some big mistakes in clutch minutes, and so far Maskoliunas has been more than fishy, pretty much sucked, even if his chances were fragmental thus far. Also, I think Lithuania in 2019 WC had pretty clear identity. In comparison with some Kazlauskas' 2015, we were scoring 10pts more per game (84.8). The difference was that we had three offensive guards in Kalnietis, Grigonis, Lekavicius who attacked the basket aggressively in p'n'r situations and al three were in double digits. Now we'll likely have some punch from Jokubaitis and R.Giedraitis as well. So in 20s we should get much more offence while hopefully not losing much at D end. Actually, I think Tubelis has a chance to be one of the most complete and all around defensive bigs Lithuania ever provided and knowing that both JV and Sabonis are liable defensively, his presence in the frontline might be very important, plus Sedekerskis is also very universal defender. I have him as a candidate to guard Doncic. You need a big athletic body with a good length against Doncic, and Sedekerskis' defensive awareness is pretty nice.

As for Slovenian upcoming talent and 20's perspective, very solid article here. 10 best prospects, can't say much if it's spot on. Slovenian guys might say a word here. Egor Sytnikov as potential big time scoring guard next to Doncic?
https://sportando.basketball/en/top-10-prospects-in-slovenian-league/

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 11:39 AM
Toruko, I meant Zoran Dragic, not Goran :) If Goran would participate it would be completely other story, but even with Doncic alone, I think Slovenia has an obvious edge closing the games. That's the biggest issue of Lithuania. Grigonis has been stepping up, but we don't have elite game finisher as of yet.


Basically, Lithuania is a true game changer or ISO scorer away from more or less reaching true elite level again because our overall quality is increasing lately and it should stay this way till some mid 20's. Not only Jokubaitis is prevailing, but also big prospects in Tubelis, Marciulionis, Brazdeikis, Murauskas coming soon, not mentioning quality prospects in Sirvydis, Velicka, D.Giedraitis, Sedekerskis, Kulboka. After dreadful decline since 2008, we finally witnessing obvious growth.


Nothing much to add to solid discussion between Katastroika and Serbian_Layup other than that our coaching is huge liability. While Adomaitis did pretty well, he still made some big mistakes in clutch minutes, and so far Maskoliunas has been more than fishy, pretty much sucked, even if his chances were fragmental thus far. Also, I think Lithuania in 2019 WC had pretty clear identity. In comparison with some Kazlauskas' 2015, we were scoring 10pts more per game (84.8). The difference was that we had three offensive guards in Kalnietis, Grigonis, Lekavicius who attacked the basket aggressively in p'n'r situations and al three were in double digits. Now we'll likely have some punch from Jokubaitis and R.Giedraitis as well. So in 20s we should get much more offence while hopefully not losing much at D end. Actually, I think Tubelis has a chance to be one of the most complete and all around defensive bigs Lithuania ever provided and knowing that both JV and Sabonis are liable defensively, his presence in the frontline might be very important, plus Sedekerskis is also very universal defender. I have him as a candidate to guard Doncic. You need a big athletic body with a good length against Doncic, and Sedekerskis' defensive awareness is pretty nice.

As for Slovenian upcoming talent and 20's perspective, very solid article here. 10 best prospects, can't say much if it's spot on. Slovenian guys might say a word here. Egor Sytnikov as potential big time scoring guard next to Doncic?
https://sportando.basketball/en/top-10-prospects-in-slovenian-league/

I may be wrong, but to me it didn't feel like that scoring was coming from fluid offense. What I liked was Grigonis who showed nice connection with Valanciunas and Sabonis.

Mindozas
11-03-2020, 12:21 PM
I may be wrong, but to me it didn't feel like that scoring was coming from fluid offense. What I liked was Grigonis who showed nice connection with Valanciunas and Sabonis.

It wasn't that fluid, just we had much more options in offense than we had in 2015. Sabonis, Grigonis, Lekavicius - all matured, we didn't have to rely that much on defense anymore like during last Kazlauskas stint when we had simply not much to choose from. Anyway, defensive schemes weren't that efficient anymore either, that goes down to coaching and some of our defensive guys going off their prime

Toruko
11-03-2020, 12:51 PM
Speaking about Slovenias future. I am a big big fan of Gregor Glas. Watched him in the last times U18 EC Tournament. He is playing in Serbias Dynamic Belgrade team. Unfortunately I cant watch the games but I have been checking his stats because also a Turkish prosppect plays there. Absolute deadly shooter! He is tall, has a quick release and can also create his own shot.

Also again a European top guard prospect is Ziga Samar. He doesnt have the speed and the explosiveness for the NBA but he will become a superb guard in Europe.

Some people talk big about Urban Klavzar but I havent watched him yet so I cant say anything.

Straight forward
11-03-2020, 01:15 PM
Speaking about Slovenias future. I am a big big fan of Gregor Glas. Watched him in the last times U18 EC Tournament. He is playing in Serbias Dynamic Belgrade team. Unfortunately I cant watch the games but I have been checking his stats because also a Turkish prosppect plays there. Absolute deadly shooter! He is tall, has a quick release and can also create his own shot.

Also again a European top guard prospect is Ziga Samar. He doesnt have the speed and the explosiveness for the NBA but he will become a superb guard in Europe.

Some people talk big about Urban Klavzar but I havent watched him yet so I cant say anything.

Went through material in youtube, and I like Klavzar the most (Urban, what a name :)). He's very explosive and has a lot of inangibles in his body control and nifty drives. Undersized, but may have a lot of Campazzo in him. Gregor Glass looks versatile, but lacking a little bit more impressive frame, athleticism and toughness for big prospect's pedigree. Samar seems fundamentally sound passer, but has a bit rigid body and not so transcendent flexibility for a great guard prospect. Just cheap impressions from the scratch though.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 09:18 AM
Slovenia is definitely not a favorite here, Lithuania has many advantages over them, but I think they won't be easy to deal with.

I believe Germany with Dirk is the best comparison how dangerous can an average team with a superstar be. Lithuania might be a favourite, but Slovenia with Luka can easily beat them. Slovenia has won Eurobasket with pretty average team, being 30:1 before the tournament. Sure it’s unlikely, but not impossible, that Goran plays, but Luka is much improved player now. And there are some pretty solid role players, who can be very good with proper leader. It’s only 1 game, it might be something like 55:45 for Lithuania because of home court advantage.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 09:29 AM
I don't expect Luka to be playing. Dallas will have a good and deep playoff run this year if nothing unexpected happens.

I mean, I would love and to be honest cheer for you in this tournament, but besides all the NBA calendar won't let it happen. That's the main problem. You'll have him available most probably if you qualify but not for qualifiers. We should know more the next days about that issue anyways. NBA plans to regulate it, most probably, tomorrow. So I expect calendar until mid-November.

If you build a 5 Dragic - Doncic - Blazic - Randolph - Dimec this team would not be favourite to win the tournament in Kaunas but one of favourites to go to the very end of the Olympic tournament.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 09:54 AM
I don't expect Luka to be playing. Dallas will have a good and deep playoff run this year if nothing unexpected happens.

I mean, I would love and to be honest cheer for you in this tournament, but besides all the NBA calendar won't let it happen. That's the main problem. You'll have him available most probably if you qualify but not for qualifiers. We should know more the next days about that issue anyways. NBA plans to regulate it, most probably, tomorrow. So I expect calendar until mid-November.

If you build a 5 Dragic - Doncic - Blazic - Randolph - Dimec this team would not be favourite to win the tournament in Kaunas but one of favourites to go to the very end of the Olympic tournament.

It looks that 72 games season will start 22.12. It depends how far Dallas goes, but knowing how deep will west be this year, Warriors back, and KP returning after injury, Luka finishing the season in time for qualifiers looks very likely. Dragic will try to sign his last good contract this year, meaning he won't go for 1 year deal. That makes his participation much more likely than it would be this year. It's still unlikely that both play, but it's possible. More likely scenario is Luka/Prepelic/Blazic/Cancar/Morgan. Still solid starters. And you don't need to be deep in a short tournament like that.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 10:04 AM
West next year, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Warriors, Thunder, Jazz, Rockets, Mavericks, Suns, Blazers...anything can happen there. Mavericks can be in the final or not even making playoffs.

Straight forward
11-05-2020, 10:06 AM
Mavs is among top five teams to win it all next season. There's virtually zero chances for them not to make PO as long as Doncic is playing.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 10:09 AM
I also see Dallas very very strong this year. Anyways, it's likely to see this clash in Kaunas and I'm looking forward to it. Nerve-robbing for you guys, but for us neutral ones really one to enjoy. One of the games where it's trully "you are" or "you are not the one" for the leaders of both teams.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 10:16 AM
Mavs is among top five teams to win it all next season. There's virtually zero chances for them not to make PO as long as Doncic is playing.

Are they? In the West favourites are Lakers and Clippers, then you have improving Nuggets and returning Warriors. They should be in playoffs for sure. Next 4 places will be decided among Jazz, Thunder, Rockets, Mavericks, Blazers and Suns. Blood-battle if you ask me. Season will be ended in mid July, so Mavs making playoffs doesn't automatically mean Luka is out of qualifiers. KP's health is a big question mark for the Mavs and without healthy KP Mavs haven't realistic chance to go very deep.

Mindozas
11-05-2020, 10:20 AM
I'm not NBA follower, so I'll ask bravely this noob question - what are the chances for JV's Memphis and Domas' Indiana next season? How the picture is looking now? I guess Memphis is done if West looking that deep, right? or they might be better than previous season?

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 10:22 AM
I also see Dallas very very strong this year. Anyways, it's likely to see this clash in Kaunas and I'm looking forward to it. Nerve-robbing for you guys, but for us neutral ones really one to enjoy. One of the games where it's trully "you are" or "you are not the one" for the leaders of both teams.

yes, in one game having the best player means much more than having deeper team. without Luka chances for Slovenia is near 0.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 10:28 AM
I'm not NBA follower, so I'll ask bravely this noob question - what are the chances for JV's Memphis and Domas' Indiana next season? How the picture is looking now? I guess Memphis is done if West looking that deep, right? or they might be better than previous season?

West will be incredible strong. There are virtually no bad teams, Kings should be better too, Memphis with great young duo and then you have Pelicans with Zion. Then you have Minnesota with first pick, which they will try to trade and get already good player in return and I almost forgot Spurs and Popovich. Just incredible season. It would be great surprise if Memphis makes playoffs. East looks much more open and easier, I guess Indiana should do solid.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 10:50 AM
West will be incredible strong. There are virtually no bad teams, Kings should be better too, Memphis with great young duo and then you have Pelicans with Zion. Then you have Minnesota with first pick, which they will try to trade and get already good player in return and I almost forgot Spurs and Popovich. Just incredible season. It would be great surprise if Memphis makes playoffs. East looks much more open and easier, I guess Indiana should do solid.

I agree. Memphis will be around 8th-9th place next year but more than 1st round is really not likely.
Indiana is a lock for playoffs and probably even making it to East-Semis or further in ideal circumstances.

Mindozas
11-05-2020, 10:58 AM
Thnx for info, guys. So if everything will go by the plan, there are good chances to see at least JV with NT shirt. Having even 1 out of 2 our NBAers would be great boost for our chances. Will have to follow NBA more closely now and awkwardly cheer against Memphis and Indiana :)

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 11:04 AM
Thnx for info, guys. So if everything will go by the plan, there are good chances to see at least JV with NT shirt. Having even 1 out of 2 our NBAers would be great boost for our chances. Will have to follow NBA more closely now and awkwardly cheer against Memphis and Indiana :)

I will cheer for both. ;)

Here we have Vegas odds. Mavs 6/7 in the west, I totally agree. Memphis unlikely to make playoffs and Indiana tied for 8th. It looks to me, we might see everyone in Lithuania, if everything goes by book, which never does.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

West has 11 of first 17 teams with the best odds to win Nba title.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 11:12 AM
I will cheer for both. ;)

Here we have Vegas odds. Mavs 6/7 in the west, I totally agree. Memphis unlikely to make playoffs and Indiana tied for 8th. It looks to me, we might see everyone in Lithuania, if everything goes by book, which never does.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

West has 11 of first 17 teams with the best odds to win Nba title.

Pfff, I have some problems about those standings but I will keep it for myself :)

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 11:26 AM
Pfff, I have some problems about those standings but I will keep it for myself :)

Nets are over-rated, but Nba is star driven league so we shouldn't be to surprised there. Warriors looks very high, but we shouldn't forget they have second overall pick, which are they prepared to trade. Other than that, it looks pretty solid to me. Nuggets are incredibly deep. MPJ and Murray should be even better this year. Mavs have problems with KP. It's to early of course. We should wait draft and begging off the trading season.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 12:05 PM
Nets are over-rated, but Nba is star driven league so we shouldn't be to surprised there. Warriors looks very high, but we shouldn't forget they have second overall pick, which are they prepared to trade. Other than that, it looks pretty solid to me. Nuggets are incredibly deep. MPJ and Murray should be even better this year. Mavs have problems with KP. It's to early of course. We should wait draft and begging off the trading season.

Yeah, I still wait for the trades primarily.

E.g. Denver will go all in next season (and perhaps destroy a lot of things they've built in the last years). If they really take PG they will massively fail.

My dark horse for winning it all next year is still Dallas if they trade for another superstar.

Mindozas
11-05-2020, 12:25 PM
I will cheer for both. ;)

Here we have Vegas odds. Mavs 6/7 in the west, I totally agree. Memphis unlikely to make playoffs and Indiana tied for 8th. It looks to me, we might see everyone in Lithuania, if everything goes by book, which never does.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

West has 11 of first 17 teams with the best odds to win Nba title.

Man, I hope Dallas will go against the odds, it's time for them to get back to finals, been a die hard fan of club since 1978 :cool: :p Go Mavs

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 12:26 PM
Yeah, I still wait for the trades primarily.

E.g. Denver will go all in next season (and perhaps destroy a lot of things they've built in the last years). If they really take PG they will massively fail.

My dark horse for winning it all next year is still Dallas if they trade for another superstar.

Mavs don't have much to offer. Much more likely they will wait for next big free agents season. If you have Luka, you basically need to surround him with shooters and defenders. You don't need someone to take the ball out of his hands.

My big concern about Mavs is KP. Being so big and having problems with knees looks very worrisome.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 12:36 PM
Mavs don't have much to offer. Much more likely they will wait for next big free agents season. My big concern about Mavs is KP. Being so big and having problems with knees looks very worrisome.

Seems so, and even if - I am always worried if good balanced and klicking teams are getting "upgraded" - often they lose a lot of cohesion. For example, if they build a package with Kleber, Finney-Smith, pick and Curry they would have to go all in. They are still at the beginning of a journey but rumours are pretty wild about superstar alert in Texas.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 12:45 PM
Seems so, and even if - I am always worried if good balanced and klicking teams are getting "upgraded" - often they lose a lot of cohesion. For example, if they build a package with Kleber, Finney-Smith, pick and Curry they would have to go all in. They are still at the beginning of a journey but rumours are pretty wild about superstar alert in Texas.

Mavs had the best offense in the history of Nba last year. Problem is D. Kleber and Finney Smith are their best defenders beside Kp. I would take someone like Mikal Bridges. 3&D player, who knows his role. They especially need D. on wings. The best fit would be Kawhi, but it won't happen of course.

Mavs are nervous, because they have Luka playing for peanuts. How many times you have top5 player on rookie contract? That gives you great opportunity to sign one extra superstar.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 01:01 PM
Mavs had the best offense in the history of Nba last year. Problem is D. Kleber and Finney Smith are their best defenders beside Kp. I would take someone like Mikal Bridges. 3&D player, who knows his role. They especially need D. on wings. The best fit would be Kawhi, but it won't happen of course.

Mavs are nervous, because they have Luka playing for peanuts. How many times you have top5 player on rookie contract? That gives you great opportunity to sign one extra superstar.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/top-25-free-agents-2020-nba-offseason
Pick your favourite superstar and wannabe superstar :)

That's they key point. They will have to trade something if they want someone outside the list that can help and looking at it there are really few names which could really boost Dallas.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 01:20 PM
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/top-25-free-agents-2020-nba-offseason
Pick your favourite superstar and wannabe superstar :)

That's they key point. They will have to trade something if they want someone outside the list that can help and looking at it there are really few names which could really boost Dallas.

There are some nice shooters from Europe out there. I don't believe Mavs will be very aggressive in this market. They don't look to me only 1 piece away. I hope they will upgrade the team without risking too much. They have already taken a huge risk with KP.

Straight forward
11-05-2020, 02:35 PM
Doncic nearly knocked off the Clippers...with Porzingis struggling with health and stuff. They are the fastest growing team, IMO. And they have top 5 player in the planet in their roster. These odds are ridiculous. Gimme a brake with teams like Rockets, Nuggets, Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston...

The way I see it this:

Lakers - Lebron
Clippers- Leonard
Mavs - Doncic
Warriors - Curry

and if Durant would be equally the same as he was, then NETS. All other teams lacking true winning superstars, period.

Dallas Mavericks +2,500

Luka Doncic has separated himself from the rest of the NBA in quick work, emerging as a Top-5 superstar in the league with his incredible play in the 2019-20 season and more so during his gritty performances inside the bubble, most notably pushing the star-studded Clippers to the brink in the first round. Alone, he makes Dallas a dark horse contender in the West.

The Mavs have some OK talents supporting Doncic (Kristaps Porzingis is great when healthy) but it’s obvious Mark Cuban has to do more to avoid spoiling the prime of this unique talent. The 2020 free agent crop is void of any mega-stars but the 2021 free agency list is insane. Cuban doesn’t like to miss out on an opportunity, and Dallas could get out ahead of those bidding wars by scoring a trade between now and the deadline. A shot on the Mavericks at 25/1 is Shark Tank investment in Cuban going after it.

https://www.covers.com/nba/nba-championship-betting-picks-2021-sleeper

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 02:55 PM
Doncic nearly knocked off the Clippers...with Porzingis struggling with health and stuff. They are the fastest growing team, IMO. And they have top 5 player in the planet in their roster. These odds are ridiculous. Gimme a brake with teams like Rockets, Nuggets, Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston...

The way I see it this:

Lakers - Lebron
Clippers- Leonard
Mavs - Doncic
Warriors - Curry

and if Durant would be equally the same as he was, then NETS. All other teams lacking true winning superstars, period.

Dallas Mavericks +2,500

Luka Doncic has separated himself from the rest of the NBA in quick work, emerging as a Top-5 superstar in the league with his incredible play in the 2019-20 season and more so during his gritty performances inside the bubble, most notably pushing the star-studded Clippers to the brink in the first round. Alone, he makes Dallas a dark horse contender in the West.

The Mavs have some OK talents supporting Doncic (Kristaps Porzingis is great when healthy) but it’s obvious Mark Cuban has to do more to avoid spoiling the prime of this unique talent. The 2020 free agent crop is void of any mega-stars but the 2021 free agency list is insane. Cuban doesn’t like to miss out on an opportunity, and Dallas could get out ahead of those bidding wars by scoring a trade between now and the deadline. A shot on the Mavericks at 25/1 is Shark Tank investment in Cuban going after it.

https://www.covers.com/nba/nba-championship-betting-picks-2021-sleeper

You have to calculate KP's knee problems. They're without any kind of rim protection without him. There isn't any time table for his return yet. Very unlikely he will return before mid January. And then you can expect a lot of load management for him. Mavs need healthy KP and upgrade on wing to have at least small chance. I'm not very optimistic about KP. He is too big for bad knees. He's perfect fit with Luka, unfortunately...

Straight forward
11-05-2020, 03:32 PM
We'll see. I agree with that without Luka, Slovenia nearly has zero chances. With Doncic, to me it's a fifty/fifty game and I don't think I'm too generous for Slovenia.

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 07:46 AM
Great news! NBPA and League found basic agreement for beginning at 22nd December. Looks like we will, at least if qualified, watch NBA players at Olympics. Details will follow.

No details revealed but season should (!) end in June including play offs - before qualification. So, to wrap it up, we could see in ideal circumstances Luka, Giannis, Nikola and Domantas in qualifiers.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 08:16 AM
I understand that playoffs will be finished in mid July.

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 08:30 AM
Just speculation. There are several options. Complete finish by End of June. Complete finish by end of July. It's depending whether they want to finish the season Mid-May or End-May.

There still exists no calendar. But if season really will be finished by mid May I think they will push for End June finish. We have to wait. The final agreement is expected to be taken until draft night (18th November) - still no final decision on free agency, too btw.

Mindozas
11-06-2020, 08:31 AM
Indeed, The Athletic writes that regular season should end in mid-May, finals no later than July 22. However, ESPN writes smth a bit different "The league believes that a Dec. 22 start that includes Christmas Day games on television and allows for a 72-game schedule that finishes before the Summer Olympics in July". Well, mid-May is also before Olympics, but still strangely written

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 08:37 AM
To be honest with you all - as stupid as it sounds, the qualifiers should be additionally pushed a few weeks behind. If they are start June 29th or 14th July is completely the same. But we are speaking about FIBA, greatest imbecile sports federation of all.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 08:47 AM
Just speculation. There are several options. Complete finish by End of June. Complete finish by end of July. It's depending whether they want to finish the season Mid-May or End-May.

There still exists no calendar. But if season really will be finished by mid May I think they will push for End June finish. We have to wait. The final agreement is expected to be taken until draft night (18th November) - still no final decision on free agency, too btw.

Nba will start 2 months later than normal, playing 10 games less. There won't be All Star break, but it still looks unrealistic they can finish in June, only 2 weeks later than normal season.

I agree Fiba should reschedule qualifiers, but like you said unlikely to happen, they just live in their own world.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 09:09 AM
Looking at time table, this will be brutal season. Regular season will be 1 month shorter, only 10 games less with much shorter off season. 15 games/month without All star break. We will be seeing a lot of load management. Kawhi will play 40 games.

Luka is not exactly known for his body conditioning, he will be destroyed in June. His usage in Mavs is unreal.

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 09:24 AM
That's true. But some teams (Portland comes to my mind) simply don't have enough depth, quality and space to do so. It will be extremely interesting to see how top teams will protect their key players.

I expect brutality from February ongoing. Lockout season 1998 was maybe most competitive NBA basketball ever.

Gap between West and East in quality is frightening as the bottom East teams have absolutely no progress prospect. Cleveland and Atlanta wouldn't even win the Euroleague. West will be a joy to watch this year.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 09:46 AM
I believe Atlanta will be much more competitive this season. They are very young team, they have added Capela, have almost 45 mio cap space and pick #6.

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 09:53 AM
I believe Atlanta will be much more competitive this season. They are very young team, they have added Capela, have almost 45 mio cap space and pick #6.

Maybe they won't be 28th team by quality but 24th but key is that Young-Cappella duo cannot provide playoffs. I said it quite figuratively to symbolize the lower eastern conference half. If necessary, let Atlanta be good.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 10:10 AM
Maybe they won't be 28th team by quality but 24th but key is that Young-Cappella duo cannot provide playoffs. I said it quite figuratively to symbolize the lower eastern conference half. If necessary, let Atlanta be good.

I agree with you about eastern conference, but I believe Atlanta is the wrong example. They were in phase of total rebuilding, collecting as many picks possible and having huge cap space. Now they are in phase 2, when winning will be more important. Young/Collins duo looks very promising, now they need to add some D. If they can get some solid players in free agency, they can be outside threat for playoffs.

Straight forward
03-01-2021, 11:42 AM
Doncic says he's surely playing in Kaunas.
https://sports.yahoo.com/luka-doncic-says-ll-definitely-170046055.html

Katastroika
03-01-2021, 11:54 AM
If they convince Gagi to play this will be a hell of a team. And great battle between Lithuania and Slovenia upcoming.

Straight forward
03-01-2021, 01:10 PM
If they convince Gagi to play this will be a hell of a team. And great battle between Lithuania and Slovenia upcoming.

You mean Dragic? Without him they would still have an amazing backcourt. Best Euro FIBA player in Doncic, Prepelic having a good El season (he's pretty much in the same class as Grigonis roughly speaking), Z. Dragic is super effective with 8.5pts in 18min for Baskonia. Blazic with 18.5pts in Eurocup. We'll have more balanced and quality roster overall, but the gap is not all that big. They will have better backcourt, we'll have better frontline and a bit more quality overall. What's the conclusion? IMO, Slovenia is a favourite if they will have the best Euro player with the ball in his hands.

Katastroika
03-01-2021, 01:28 PM
Yes, Dragic of course.

I agree all. But adding Dragic to this team gives it a really different dimension. Would be a hurricane.

Mindozas
03-01-2021, 05:19 PM
Well, that Doncic wants to play that's nothing new, there was always just only one question if he will be free from his Mavs duties.

Didn't check Slovene media lately, but Dragic said numerous times that he is done not only for OQT, but even Olympics if they'll qualify. Too old, too injury prone, time for new generation and etc.

Straight forward
04-15-2021, 06:52 AM
The reason why I treat Doncic available Slovenia as favorite against Lithuania. He would find ways to have ridiculous game and to close it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D00SXDwaYwU

Chuck this out, he already has a bunch of it and his career just started (not mentioning big shots with Real):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdj5llbH5WA

Mindozas
04-15-2021, 09:03 AM
Nothing to take away from Doncic, amazing shot yesterday, but defense was just ridiculously bad, that #24 guy was especially lost all the way defending Porzingis and later Luka

Killer Bob
04-15-2021, 12:16 PM
Luka will be destroyed in June. Schedule is just unbelievably difficult in this shortened season and Mavs are playing every game as playoffs game with very short rotation, because they want to avoid play-in tournament at any cost. Luka is the player with the highest usage in Nba.

Straight forward
04-15-2021, 01:28 PM
Luka will be destroyed in June. Schedule is just unbelievably difficult in this shortened season and Mavs are playing every game as playoffs game with very short rotation, because they want to avoid play-in tournament at any cost. Luka is the player with the highest usage in Nba.

Could happen probably, but he also 22yo. And Domas Sabonis is playing almost a minute longer than Doncic, 35,8min.

Killer Bob
04-15-2021, 01:43 PM
Could happen probably, but he also 22yo. And Domas Sabonis is playing almost a minute longer than Doncic, 35,8min.

Luka is 22 with dad's belly.;) Luka's 36 usage is insane, he's basically the whole Mavs offense. Furthermore it's much more questionable if Indiana makes playoffs than Mavs. Mavs have pretty good chances to finish at least 6th, because they have the easiest schedule remaining. http://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

Mindozas
04-16-2021, 05:54 PM
Jordan Morgan got injured (knee) yesterday vs Virtus and couldn't continue the game. Unics says the injury is serious, but no further details or time of recovery. Looking at that moment, there were no contact, so might be ACL or meniscus. In worst case scenario he might miss qualifiers, which would put Slovenia in even bigger trouble in the paint. I guess Omic could be an option as another naturalized player or bring back veteran Vidmar...

Shawshank
04-16-2021, 07:49 PM
Jordan Morgan got injured (knee) yesterday vs Virtus and couldn't continue the game. Unics says the injury is serious, but no further details or time of recovery. Looking at that moment, there were no contact, so might be ACL or meniscus. In worst case scenario he might miss qualifiers, which would put Slovenia in even bigger trouble in the paint. I guess Omic could be an option as another naturalized player or bring back veteran Vidmar...

Morgan injury would be seriuos blow for Slovenia.Thats dude is tough as it comes and no slow white center can give what Morgans athletism would give.

Let say Slovenia gets a bad news Morgan can play in June,does its even possible to naturalise another american in 2months?

In our country our federation cant finish naturalisation to 100% blood lithuanian kid in 2 years :)

ps. watched the video and yeah something happend seriuosly bad with his knee,such tough dude started screaming in pain and went down in no contact episode like Murray did few days ago.Looks almost as bad as Murray moment.

Straight forward
04-16-2021, 09:15 PM
M
Let say Slovenia gets a bad news Morgan can play in June,does its even possible to naturalise another american in 2months?

In our country our federation cant finish naturalisation to 100% blood lithuanian kid in 2 years :)


I don't flatter our federation usually, but they need Brazdeikis' Lithuanian citizenship first to talk with FIBA.

Morgan didn't even play for Slovenia yet, I wouldn't overemphasize this. It's still about their perimeter, if they will have all the pieces, they will have more deadly weaponry than our frontcourt and it comes down to one name most essentially.

Mindozas
04-17-2021, 05:29 AM
Morgan injury would be seriuos blow for Slovenia.Thats dude is tough as it comes and no slow white center can give what Morgans athletism would give.

Let say Slovenia gets a bad news Morgan can play in June,does its even possible to naturalise another american in 2months?

In our country our federation cant finish naturalisation to 100% blood lithuanian kid in 2 years :)

ps. watched the video and yeah something happend seriuosly bad with his knee,such tough dude started screaming in pain and went down in no contact episode like Murray did few days ago.Looks almost as bad as Murray moment.

Our federation did it all for Brazdeikis to get citizenship, all the struggles are from Brazdeikis side, firstly he couldn't sent all the needed docs, probably priorities were NBA debut, then pandemic happened, he could't travel to get those missing papers and all stuck.


I don't flatter our federation usually, but they need Brazdeikis' Lithuanian citizenship first to talk with FIBA.

Morgan didn't even play for Slovenia yet, I wouldn't overemphasize this. It's still about their perimeter, if they will have all the pieces, they will have more deadly weaponry than our frontcourt and it comes down to one name most essentially.

Morgan played for Slovenia in qualifiers and was their best player with some like 15+8 and close to 20eff not counting fouls drawn. We all know where the strength of Slovenia lies, but not having anyone in the paint is huge problem against Lithuania with Domas and JV or even one of them. It'd be big loss

Shawshank
04-17-2021, 01:53 PM
Morgan in main strong athletic center for uleb finalist/ most likely winner team.

Morgan looked very good in qualification way better than our centers did.He was one of main difrences why Slovenia looked very good in these qualification compared to last one.



Very rarely we see that NT naturalise not USA guard, but big that only shows how much Slovenia need him.I would argue he is in top 3 most important player for them.

They can lose one guard and be same, but I doubt they can lose only real level big and be same team.

Hepcat
05-05-2021, 05:34 PM
Morgan injury would be seriuos blow for Slovenia.Thats dude is tough as it comes and no slow white center can give what Morgans athletism would give.

Let say Slovenia gets a bad news Morgan can play in June,does its even possible to naturalise another american in 2months?

Heaven forbid that the Slovenian team should actually fill the position with a Slovenian.

:rolleyes:

Mindozas
05-14-2021, 08:17 AM
Poland lately announced preliminary roster. It was interesting to see if Lampe will be there, he wanted to join, but he had some misunderstandings between him/federation/coach as of late, so probably latter decided to go without him


Szeroki skład reprezentacji Polski

PG

Łukasz Kolenda, Trefl Sopot
Łukasz Koszarek, Enea Zastal BC Zielona Góra
Andy Mazurczak, MKS Dąbrowa Górnicza
A.J. Slaughter, Herbalife Gran Canaria (Hiszpania)

SG

Jakub Garbacz, Arged BMSlam Stal Ostrów Wlkp.
Karol Gruszecki, Trefl Sopot
Michał Michalak, Syntainics MBC Weissenfels (Niemcy)
Marcel Ponitka, Parma Basket Perm (Rosja)
Mateusz Ponitka, Zenit St. Petersburg (Rosja)

SF

Jakub Karolak, Legia Warszawa
Igor Milicić, Ratiopharm Ulm (Niemcy)
Michał Sokołowski, De Longhi Treviso Basket (Włochy)
Adam Waczyński, Unicaja Malaga (Hiszpania)
Mathieu Wojciechowski, ESSM Le Portel (Francja)
Jarosław Zyskowski, RETAbet Bilbao Basket (Hiszpania)

PF

Aaron Cel, Polski Cukier Toruń
Aleksander Dziewa, WKS Śląsk Wrocław
Tomasz Gielo, MoraBanc Andora (Hiszpania)
Jeremy Sochan, Ratiopharm Ulm (Niemcy)

C

Aleksander Balcerowski, Herbalife Gran Canaria (Hiszpania)
Adrian Bogucki, Enea Astoria Bydgoszcz
Adam Hrycaniuk, Asseco Arka Gdynia
Damian Kulig, Polski Cukier Toruń
Dominik Olejniczak, Trefl Sopot

Mindozas
05-17-2021, 08:24 AM
Angola's new coach Spanish Josep Claros (Joventut, Mexican NT) announced preliminary roster. Only one famous name is missing - long time leader, legendary Olimpio Cipriano. Don't know the reason, maybe injury. Other than that most of key guys are there. Of course Bruno Fernandes from Atlanta Hawks headlining the list. Then Yanick Moreira from Greek AEK, who is having decent season and is among leaders there. There are some doubts regarding another big prospect De Sousa, who got in legal troubles in USA back in January 2020 and still can't solve it all, trials are ongoing, cause of that he left famous Kentucky University and didn't play all this season. Also cause of that he can't leave USA now, but he showed his will to join NT this summer, we'll see how it all will pan out.

https://scontent.fvno5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185941048_2917612631814866_3510414980296942261_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=YNzhfrnBgvQAX9i_Ygz&_nc_ht=scontent.fvno5-1.fna&oh=513f8c426f0fb8f98649d2c1241f1419&oe=60C884F4

Katastroika
05-17-2021, 08:52 AM
Angola's new coach Spanish Josep Claros (Joventut, Mexican NT) announced preliminary roster. Only one famous name is missing - long time leader, legendary Olimpio Cipriano. Don't know the reason, maybe injury. Other than that most of key guys are there. Of course Bruno Fernandes from Atlanta Hawks headlining the list. Then Yanick Moreira from Greek AEK, who is having decent season and is among leaders there. There are some doubts regarding another big prospect De Sousa, who got in legal troubles in USA back in January 2020 and still can't solve it all, trials are ongoing, cause of that he left famous Kentucky University and didn't play all this season. Also cause of that he can't leave USA now, but he showed his will to join NT this summer, we'll see how it all will pan out.

https://scontent.fvno5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/185941048_2917612631814866_3510414980296942261_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=YNzhfrnBgvQAX9i_Ygz&_nc_ht=scontent.fvno5-1.fna&oh=513f8c426f0fb8f98649d2c1241f1419&oe=60C884F4

We played them several times the last years in FIBA competitions. I think this is a clear +20 game for all favourites in your tournament. They have some athleticism but tactically really bad team, at least with previous head coach(es).

Mindozas
05-17-2021, 09:45 AM
We played them several times the last years in FIBA competitions. I think this is a clear +20 game for all favourites in your tournament. They have some athleticism but tactically really bad team, at least with previous head coach(es).

Yeah, Angola were in a bit of downtrend latest years after their older generation started to step off the stage. They used to be quite tough nut to crack, with balanced roster, physicality, always there for some surprise, but since some 2016 they fell down. In 2017 didn't even make it Afrobasket podium. It's intriguing to see how their new generation will do now. Especially Bruno Fernandes, his impact on international scene. If he would be like some Dieng for Senegal, then Angola might rise again and you couldn't take them lightly. There are some guys from NCAA too. But overall they lack that balance they used to have, backline is quite weak. Morais is 35yo. If everyone will be aboard, newcomers will adjust well, then they might try to compete, if not, then Slovenia and Poland should beat them. Maybe not +20, but comfortable enough

Katastroika
05-17-2021, 10:08 AM
Yeah, Angola were in a bit of downtrend latest years after their older generation started to step off the stage. They used to be quite tough nut to crack, with balanced roster, physicality, always there for some surprise, but since some 2016 they fell down. In 2017 didn't even make it Afrobasket podium. It's intriguing to see how their new generation will do now. Especially Bruno Fernandes, his impact on international scene. If he would be like some Dieng for Senegal, then Angola might rise again and you couldn't take them lightly. There are some guys from NCAA too. But overall they lack that balance they used to have, backline is quite weak. Morais is 35yo. If everyone will be aboard, newcomers will adjust well, then they might try to compete, if not, then Slovenia and Poland should beat them. Maybe not +20, but comfortable enough

Fun fact - after OQT in Belgrade I had to pick up a colleague from abroad at the airport and met their team. We had a fun chat, really sympathic great personalities.

Mindozas
05-17-2021, 10:29 AM
Fun fact - after OQT in Belgrade I had to pick up a colleague from abroad at the airport and met their team. We had a fun chat, really sympathic great personalities.

Cool :) Actually Angola was always my favorites from Africa since 1992 Barcelona, when they made huge upset and beat Spain. Such different African team, which used to play quite smart, team oriented basketball


Btw, Slovenia announced their roster too. No Jordan Morgan as I wrote earlier he is injured, Omic is back to list as naturalized player. Then everything more or less as expected

JAKA BLAŽIČ (Cedevita Olimpija), VLATKO ČANČAR (Denver Nuggets, ZDA), ŽIGA DIMEC (Cedevita Olimpija), LUKA DONČIĆ (Dallas Mavericks, ZDA), ZORAN DRAGIĆ (Saski Baskonia, Španija), GREGOR GLAS (Dynamic, Srbija), ALEN HODŽIĆ (Cedevita Olimpija), GREGOR HROVAT (Cholet, Francija), JAN KOSI (Krka), MARTIN KRAMPELJ (Ilirija), LUKA LAPORNIK (Krka), MIHA LAPORNIK (Den Bosch Heroes, Nizozemska), JURIJ MACURA (FMP Beograd, Srbija), BLAŽ MAHKOVIC (Helios Suns), BLAŽ MESIČEK (Split, Hrvaška), EDO MURIĆ (Cedevita Olimpija), ALEKSEJ NIKOLIĆ (Gravelines, Francija), ALEN OMIĆ (JL Bourg Basket, Francija), KLEMEN PREPELIČ (Valencia, Španija), MATIC REBEC (OraSi Ravenna, Italija), LUKA RUPNIK (Cedevita Olimpija), ŽAN MARK ŠIŠKO (Bayern, Nemčija), MIHA ŠKEDELJ (Krka), GAŠPER VIDMAR (Umana Reyer Venezia, Italija)

Katastroika
05-17-2021, 11:08 AM
This is a very good team. Will be great games in Lithuania.

Btw, Mindo, do you know when the deadline for rosters is according to FIBA? Can't find any source. Serbia already informed public here that there will be most likely players who'll join shortly before tournament so it would be interesting to see the players they've licenced for the tournament.

Toruko
05-17-2021, 11:26 AM
Cool :) Actually Angola was always my favorites from Africa since 1992 Barcelona, when they made huge upset and beat Spain. Such different African team, which used to play quite smart, team oriented basketball


Btw, Slovenia announced their roster too. No Jordan Morgan as I wrote earlier he is injured, Omic is back to list as naturalized player. Then everything more or less as expected

JAKA BLAŽIČ (Cedevita Olimpija), VLATKO ČANČAR (Denver Nuggets, ZDA), ŽIGA DIMEC (Cedevita Olimpija), LUKA DONČIĆ (Dallas Mavericks, ZDA), ZORAN DRAGIĆ (Saski Baskonia, Španija), GREGOR GLAS (Dynamic, Srbija), ALEN HODŽIĆ (Cedevita Olimpija), GREGOR HROVAT (Cholet, Francija), JAN KOSI (Krka), MARTIN KRAMPELJ (Ilirija), LUKA LAPORNIK (Krka), MIHA LAPORNIK (Den Bosch Heroes, Nizozemska), JURIJ MACURA (FMP Beograd, Srbija), BLAŽ MAHKOVIC (Helios Suns), BLAŽ MESIČEK (Split, Hrvaška), EDO MURIĆ (Cedevita Olimpija), ALEKSEJ NIKOLIĆ (Gravelines, Francija), ALEN OMIĆ (JL Bourg Basket, Francija), KLEMEN PREPELIČ (Valencia, Španija), MATIC REBEC (OraSi Ravenna, Italija), LUKA RUPNIK (Cedevita Olimpija), ŽAN MARK ŠIŠKO (Bayern, Nemčija), MIHA ŠKEDELJ (Krka), GAŠPER VIDMAR (Umana Reyer Venezia, Italija)

lol Gasper Vidmar still available... He is the hardest center that I know in Europe. Wont be easy for JV. :D

Mindozas
05-17-2021, 01:37 PM
This is a very good team. Will be great games in Lithuania.

Btw, Mindo, do you know when the deadline for rosters is according to FIBA? Can't find any source. Serbia already informed public here that there will be most likely players who'll join shortly before tournament so it would be interesting to see the players they've licenced for the tournament.

I didn't see any official info, but most likely 24 players list till end of May and then you can pick players from it till start of the tournament or some couple of days till it.


lol Gasper Vidmar still available... He is the hardest center that I know in Europe. Wont be easy for JV. :D

Heard he came back only for this summer, cause frontcourt is having lot of problems

Katastroika
05-17-2021, 03:33 PM
Thanks, Mindo. Keep us updated if you hear something about deadlines as we are traditionally the very last to announce unfortunately.

Mindozas
05-18-2021, 05:37 AM
Thanks, Mindo. Keep us updated if you hear something about deadlines as we are traditionally the very last to announce unfortunately.

Ok. This week our coach should announce the list, so maybe we'll have some additional info

Mindozas
05-21-2021, 09:17 AM
Poland announced 18 training camp roster. No surprise cuts from previously announced 24 players one, maybe I expected Marcel Ponitka to feature, but he was cut, anyway not a big deal, while Polish rising star Sochan decided to focus on next season in USA (NCAA), anyway he would hardly make the final roster. Also coach Taylor is hopeful that Mateusz Ponitka and Tomas Gielo will be ready on time as both are nursing injuries now, especially Ponitka is crucial for Poland chances

Mindozas
05-23-2021, 11:14 AM
Lithuania preliminary roster

Mantas Kalnietis (Lokomotiv Kuban, Russia)
Lukas Lekavičius (Žalgiris)
Rokas Jokubaitis (Žalgiris)
Marius Grigonis (Žalgiris)
Rokas Giedraitis (Baskonia,Spain)
Tomas Dimša (Gran Canaria, Spain)
Edgaras Ulanovas (Fenerbahce,Turkey)
Mindaugas Kuzminskas (Lokomotiv Kuban,Russia)
Ignas Brazdeikis (Orlando Magic,NBA)
Arnas Butkevičius (Rytas)
Tadas Sedekerskis (Baskonia, Spain)
Eimantas Bendžius (Sassari, Italy)
Gytis Masiulis (Lietkabelis)
Domas Sabonis (Indiana Pacers, NBA)
Jonas Valančiūnas (Memphis Grizzlies, NBA)

Gudaitis (Zenit) is injured, but might be called up if needed, the same like Jonas Mačiulis (AEK, Greece) who is out for now cause of coach decision

Katastroika
05-23-2021, 11:25 AM
Very good team, as always.

Mindozas
05-23-2021, 11:55 AM
Very good team, as always.

Yeah, balanced roster. Good that some had breakthrough season, and overall majority are coming after good seasons, maybe except for Ulanovas who had the one to forget and didn't play for few months, but with his profile it shouldn't take too long to come back to shape. Biggest enigma is Brazdeikis. Hopefully he should solve all the bureaucratic stuff in time, so wondering what he will offer in his debut. Maybe will surprise like some other US based guys beofre, like Songaila in 2000, or Kleiza in his debut in 2006, afterall he is not complete newbie on international scene, played for Canada in youth tournaments and did really good, so FIBA bball might suit him well

Mindozas
05-26-2021, 01:21 PM
So it's official, we will have fans in arena, but no more than 75% of capacity. Couldn't be better actually bearing in mind all the circumstances, 11k people should be a big boost for our NT

ChuckDiesel2
05-27-2021, 08:23 PM
Gotta be an all time first that a guy who probably couldn’t make the Canadian team (this summer) finds a comfortable spot amongst the Lithuanians. Iggy was awesome in the G-League bubble and had a nice end to the year on a tanking Orlando team. Always been a fan of his toughness, hope he provides a nice boost.

Hepcat
05-27-2021, 11:07 PM
Canada's had no shortage of talent from which to choose since the turn of the century. Canada's problem has been knitting that talent into a cohesive team. Lithuania is just too small a country with less than 2.8 million people to have as deep a talent pool.

:(

ChuckDiesel2
05-28-2021, 03:45 AM
Canada's had no shortage of talent from which to choose since the turn of the century. Canada's problem has been knitting that talent into a cohesive team. Lithuania is just too small a country with less than 2.8 million people to have as deep a talent pool.

:(

I’d argue their problem has more been convincing their top tier talent to suit up in the first place.

Hepcat
05-28-2021, 03:42 PM
One problem is that I don't think most of Canada's NBA players regard being Canadian as a differentiating factor from their teammates. They grew up idolizing NBA players, went to American NCAA schools and now don't regard themselves as any different from their American teammates. The thought "But I'm a Canadian and we can show these Yanks a thing or too about basketball!" just doesn't cross their mind. This is most particularly true of the players born and raised in the Toronto area.

So unlike the situation that prevailed thirty years ago, they don't consider representing Canada as an honour and point of pride.

:(

mojo13
05-28-2021, 04:26 PM
One problem is that I don't think most of Canada's NBA players regard being Canadian as a differentiating factor from their teammates. They grew up idolizing NBA players, went to American NCAA schools and now don't regard themselves as any different from their American teammates. The thought "But I'm a Canadian and we can show these Yanks a thing or too about basketball!" just doesn't cross their mind. This is most particularly true of the players born and raised in the Toronto area.

So unlike the situation that prevailed thirty years ago, they don't consider representing Canada as an honour and point of pride.

:(

This is the opposite of reality.

The Toronto guys especially. Honestly this is very, very wrong. A very superficial and lazy way of looking for support to an incorrect narrative.

And enlighten me on the wealth of talent Canada has had from 2000 to -2015?

Once Nash retired there was not much there. Maybe an NBA role player here of there and a bunch of middling Euro based players.

The talent pool just started coming up around 2010 where Canada won a bronze at the U17 Worlds. TT and CoJo were drafted in 2011 starting a decade of Canadians drafted into the NBA each year. The 2015 FIBA Americas we had great NBA turnout (a very good team that was crushing opponents too) but it was super young, inexperienced and vulnerable to an upset (with a legacy bad coach/system). 2016 Olympic Qualifier we had good turnout, but a still young and imbalanced team couldn't over come France (no surprise). the 2019 WC was a bellyflop (but there reasons behind it) - most of the NBA players participated in the WC Qualifiers when they could.

And here we are with 14 NBA players (plus 3 ex-NBA players) expected to show up to camp.


There were a host of other problems and issues with the program for sure - but saying these guys don't have pride is very inaccurate.

Shawshank
05-28-2021, 04:52 PM
logic behind nba players non europeans playing for NT is simple:

most nba players (if healthy) wants to play in Olympics once in 4 years .

Usa will bring bunch of top 10 their players too this summer like Curry,Leonard,Lillard types.

When it comes to fiba world cup only upcoming young nba players wants to play.

i see similiar mindset by best canadians like americans have.

2019 and 2021 USA and Canada NT only proves that.

That not the case for european nba players mindset. Jokic,Gobert, Giannis or previuosly Gasols,Parker, Nowitzki is/were comming and playing in eurobaskets and fiba world cups for their NT.

mojo13
05-28-2021, 06:34 PM
logic behind nba players non europeans playing for NT is simple:

most nba players (if healthy) wants to play in Olympics once in 4 years .

Usa will bring bunch of top 10 their players too this summer like Curry,Leonard,Lillard types.

When it comes to fiba world cup only upcoming young nba players wants to play.

i see similiar mindset by best canadians like americans have.

2019 and 2021 USA and Canada NT only proves that.

That not the case for european nba players mindset. Jokic,Gobert, Giannis or previuosly Gasols,Parker, Nowitzki is/were comming and playing in eurobaskets and fiba world cups for their NT.

This is a more accurate interpretation.
The Olympics are way more important to North Americans than the World Cup or regional events. Always has been.
I'm hoping that gradually changes as the WC is a better event.

Hepcat
05-28-2021, 09:38 PM
logic behind nba players non europeans playing for NT is simple:

most nba players (if healthy) wants to play in Olympics once in 4 years .

Usa will bring bunch of top 10 their players too this summer like Curry,Leonard,Lillard types.

When it comes to fiba world cup only upcoming young nba players wants to play.

i see similiar mindset by best canadians like americans have.

This is a more accurate interpretation.

And did I not say that most of the Canadians in the NBA these days don't differ in their mindset from the Americans in the NBA? These Canadians don't think of themselves or want to be seen as different from the Americans in the NBA. The fact that they're classified as Canadians is to them merely a geographical accident. They don't regard it as a meaningful differentiating feature.

Contrast the attitude of the Canadians in the NBA with the attitude of the Canadians in the NHL when it comes to seizing the opportunity to play for Team Canada.

:(

mojo13
05-29-2021, 05:51 AM
And did I not say that most of the Canadians in the NBA these days don't differ in their mindset from the Americans in the NBA? These Canadians don't think of themselves or want to be seen as different from the Americans in the NBA. The fact that they're classified as Canadians is to them merely a geographical accident. They don't regard it as a meaningful differentiating feature.

Contrast the attitude of the Canadians in the NBA with the attitude of the Canadians in the NHL when it comes to seizing the opportunity to play for Team Canada.

:(

This is silly. You really have no idea about these players or much about Canadian basketball. Where do you get this idea from?

Comes across as veiled racism to be honest. That these players are not proud to be Canadian because they are black.

These guys talk about being Canadian all the time - those from the Toronto area are always talking about how much they love Toronto. They all go back there in the summer, play the Canadian summer leagues, hang at the festivals.

They all love Canadian music, they rep Canadian clothing brands, they wear Canada gear in pressers all the time. You can see it when they talk to American media - they know they are very different and are proud of it.


I can find pics of Brandon Clarke in Team Canada gear earlier this year after a Grizzlies game. A guy born in Vancouver and moved to Phoenix at age three. Exceptions don’t make the rule of course, but if that guy is going out of his way to differentiate himself as Canadian it should tell you something.

Hepcat
05-29-2021, 03:32 PM
This is silly. You really have no idea about these players or much about Canadian basketball. Where do you get this idea from?

Comes across as veiled racism to be honest. That these players are not proud to be Canadian because they are black.

Ahah! You just played the race card! That indicates that it's you who thinks that race is a factor! I don't. So I'm not the one who can be termed the racist.

:p

P.S.: Playing the race card against me doesn't work. I'm not cowed by it. I'll just toss it back in your face and laugh at you for using it.

:p

mojo13
05-29-2021, 03:50 PM
Ahah! You just played the race card! That indicates that it's you who thinks that race is a factor! I don't. So I'm not the one who can be termed the racist.

:p

P.S.: Playing the race card against me doesn't work. I'm not cowed by it. I'll just toss it back in your face and laugh at you for using it.

:p

Yeah ok - if that’s the path this is going I’ll leave it at this.

First - Apologies if I came across as calling you a racist that wasn’t intended. Just that the concept is.

But if you understood Canadian (and American) culture better and race relations you’d understand that this has been used many times in the past. And it clearly has racist undertones.
The idea is Basketball players (representing visible minorities in Canada) are not as patriotic as hockey players (representing tradition Caucasian culture) in Canada. In this day that argument is left mostly to those you’d wouldn’t want to share a dinner with.

You may have stepped into that argument unknowingly - but is a well discussed issue in Canada. I’ve sat through this idiotic discussion over the decades among my red neck small town cousins over holiday dinners.

I’m sure the same conversations happens in Europe regarding immigrants.

Just be careful making assumptions about these players, when you really don’t know the inner workings of the last few decades of Canada Basketball and the basketball culture in Canada.

You can’t compare hockey to anything in Canada. You don’t understand the money that has been behind Hockey Canada for decades. It may have been Canada’s biggest contribution to the Cold War. (That might not even be a joke). The entire country - govt, media, culture - everything has been behind hockey for almost a hundred years.

Basketball is a much younger phenomena in Canada. Basketball Canada has been running on amateur status pennies for decades with only recently it starting to get the attention it deserves. But it still has little money.

I know the work behind the scenes Rowan Barrett and Glen Grunwald have been doing to try to pull this all together. Canada has never really had these resources in the past.


It’s funny - Shai Gilgeous Alexander (injury) and Chris Boucher (injury/contract) went out of their way to provide a lengthy public explanation on why they are not playing in the Qualfier and how badly they wanted to play. . SGA went so far as to poorly photoshop himself into a Team Canada jersey.
Even a guys like Dylan Ennis, who we didn’t really think would make the team, took to Twitter to explain why he wasn’t playing (baby on the way) but how badly hopes to one day play.

Know who we didn’t hear an explanation from? Kevin Pangos and Kyle Wiltjer - but nobody is doubting their interest in playing.

LuDux
05-29-2021, 06:42 PM
https://indigenousx.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Screen-Shot-2018-09-11-at-3.35.02-PM.png

Hepcat
05-29-2021, 07:47 PM
Including the word "white" makes that a racist meme. Why would you post such a thing on this international basketball forum?

:confused:

LuDux
05-29-2021, 08:19 PM
Including the word "white" makes that a racist meme. Why would you post such a thing on this international basketball forum?

:confused:


i guess I'm "race traitor"

Hepcat
05-29-2021, 10:31 PM
i guess I'm "race traitor"

No, just a real jerk for introducing that expression into this thread. Plus a racist for posting the meme. Had you been colour blind the thought wouldn't have crossed your mind.

:rolleyes:

Hepcat
05-30-2021, 02:22 PM
You can’t compare hockey to anything in Canada. You don’t understand the money that has been behind Hockey Canada for decades. It may have been Canada’s biggest contribution to the Cold War. (That might not even be a joke). The entire country - govt, media, culture - everything has been behind hockey for almost a hundred years.

Yes, Canada is all about hockey. But don't make the mistake of saying that it's all about money. Hockey is part of our national cultural heritage because of our geography. We are the true North, strong and free, we are the land of winter, frost and blizzards. And I'm proud of it. And you won't catch me fleeing to Florida or southern climes for the winter. I revel in my imperviousness to cold temperatures.


But if you understood Canadian (and American) culture better....

There! You've put your finger on the underlying issue right there! Does not the increasing American domination of our culture, particularly our sport culture, bother you? Well let me tell you that it burns my ass. And I don't so much blame the Americans who are doing it unwittingly, I blame other Canadians for embracing it.

Consider. Every self-respecting Canadian beer drinker sneered at U.S. beer as "water" up until the end of the 1970's. Now the biggest selling beers in Canada are American piss water, e.g. Coors Light, Budweiser, Bud Light, etc. Labatt's doesn't even make IPA anymore and that was the choice of all the unionized plant workers at Labatt's in London including my father (who worked at Labatt's for 26 years until he retired while I worked at the plant for four summer from 1972-75). In fact Canadians even drink Corona now and put lemon in their beer for fuck's sake! I can imagine the disgust that would have elicited from my father.

What happened to our support of hockey at the amateur level? The Allan Cup awarded to the best amateur Men's team in Canada was a big thing up until the early 1960's and now most Canadians don't even know what it is. Amateur hockey is not Major League you say? You realize of course that Major League translates to American, do you not? And that's precisely it. Without American interest, Canadians don't support it anymore.

And why this infatuation with American college sports? We have our own universities with their own teams. Their football games used to draw big crowds even in (and particularly in) Toronto and Montréal. Moreover they're played by legitimate students who are actually working toward their degrees even in fields such as Engineering, Business, Law and Medicine. You say the "best" athletes play in American colleges? Well so damn what!!! I personally don't take a stop watch to games to time the players in the forty! I go to pull for my team (that of course being the University of Western Ontario Mustangs). A pox on the Yanks and the way they've turned their schools into naught but vehicles for the business of sports. Bloody hell.

And that's also my bottom line when it comes to aspiring athletes. I sneer at the ones who choose to attend U.S. colleges instead of Canadian universities. I classify them immediately as American wannabees. And that includes hockey players. For over nineteen years I worked with one such fellow who attended Brown in the States on a hockey scholarship. We couldn't have been more different. He was the white bread Anglo-Saxon; I was the child of immigrants with the unpronounceable name. He was the high school athlete/frat boy who'd gone to seed as an adult because his only athletic activity was puffing on cigarettes and hoisting beer. I was the high school nerd who'd gotten an academic scholarship but had developed a lean and muscular physique through gym work after I graduated. He was balding; I had (and still do) long flowing locks which I rarely cut just because I didn't want to conform to society's expectations. He and I weren't close shall we say.

And look at how support for our own brand of gridiron football has dwindled (particularly in Toronto this most American of Canadian cities)! Our own game on which we've put our own distinctive stamp and that's been an integral part of our cultural fabric since the 19th century (with the Tigers and Argonauts being the oldest football clubs on the continent) and Torontonians have abandoned it in droves embracing instead the American NFL. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, the players are (fill in the blanks) in the NFL but so fucking what? It's a different game here in Canada and it's our game!

I still have fond and vivid recollections of driving up to Toronto from London with four of my drunken buddies just to take part in the Grey Cup Festivities in 1973. Throngs of revellers along Yonge Street all hooting and hollering with vendors of Rough Riders and Eskimos paraphernalia every hundred feet! Such a fabulous party. But by 1980 Toronto was too "sophisticated", i.e. full of itself, for such.

Incidentally, have you ever tried suggesting to an Italian that since Germany is clearly better than Italy in soccer he should abandon Italian soccer and just watch the Bundesliga? If you do so you'd better be prepared to endure several hours of impassioned denials and argument. We Canadians though go down so easily in the face of the American cultural colossus. For shame!

And now I've lost the gridiron football team I embraced as a kid back in 1960, you know the one based in Edmonton that every CFL fan in Canada's far North embraced as his own. And this was due once again to a movement originating in and spreading from the States. Sixty years of identifying with the team and now it's been taken from me. I'm beyond devastated. I'll never forget, never forgive.

:mad:

Now do you understand where I'm coming from? I'm very much of a Canadian nationalist when it comes to sport and culture. And I'm not afraid to criticize others when I don't think they live up to my standards.

:confused:

Mindozas
06-01-2021, 05:04 PM
Venezuela will come to Lithuania without its biggest star Gregory Echenique, who decided to skip this tournament. That's quite a blow bearing in mind quite small frontcourt they has. Not having much of offensive talent they used to with guys like Gravis Vazquez, Donta Smith and etc, Venezuela relies a lot on physical game, defense, team play is their main weapon, so it's always dangerous rival. And now they will have most of the players came back and playing in local league, so should be well gelled unit, giving it all on court. Full list:

Bases: David Cubillán y Arián Amundaray (Trotamundos), Heissler Guillent (Guaiqueríes), Gregory Vargas (Cocodrilos) y Luis Betancourt (Taurinos)
Escoltas: Pedro Chourio y Yohanner Sifontes (Spartans), Jhornan Zamora (Trotamundos), José Bracho (Centauros) y Fabrizio Pugliatti (Stella Azzurra)
Aleros: José Vargas y Luis Duarte (Gigantes), Garly Sojo (Broncos), Anyelo Cisneros (Diablos) y Edgar Martínez (Guaiqueríes)
Ala-pívots: Michael Carrera, José Ascanio y Eliezer Montaño (Guaiqueríes) y Néstor Colmenares y Luis Bethelmy (Cocodrilos)
Pívots: Windi Graterol (Spartans), Miguel Ruiz (Trotamundos), Luis Carrillo (Guaiqueríes) y Miguel Bolivar (Gigantes)

Straight forward
06-10-2021, 11:53 AM
Slovenia's roster. They start the camp today. Doncic joins June 15. Now that Jordan is out, Cancar might be important for them (Nuggets goes down 2:0 heavily against the Suns so he should come). It's unknown yet if Alen Omic will join, he's pissed because Slovenia picked Randolph in 2017. That big center would be really handy for Slovenia. Some of Slovenia's Eurocup's pieces are underrated as Jaka Blazic. Last year Prepelic was doing something like Blazic did this year in Eurocup, then Prepelic joined Valencia and, guess what, he was playing well in EL.

Jaka Blažič („Cedevita Olimpija“), Vlatko Čančar („Denver Nuggets“), Jakom Čebašek („Dinamo Bukarešta“), Žiga Dimec („Cedevita Olimpija“), Luka Dončič („Mavericks“), Zoran Dragič („Baskonia“), Gregor Glas („Dynamic“), Gregor Hrovat („Cholet“), Jan Kosi (Krka), Miha Lapornik („Den Bosch Heroes“), Jurij Macura (FMP), Blaž Mahkovic („Helios Suns“), Edo Murič („Cedevita Olimpija“), Aleksej Nikolič („Gravelines“), Alen Omič („Jl Bourg Basket“), Klemen Prepelič („Valencia“), Matic Rebec („Orasi Ravenna“), Luka Rupnik („Cedevita Olimpija“), Žan Mark Šiško („Bayern“), Gašper Vidmar („Umana Reyer“).

Serbian_Layup
06-10-2021, 12:31 PM
It's Doncic and a bunch of quality role players. So, it's the situation Doncic is very familiar with because he has the same roster construction in Dallas. There is no reason to think he is going to play any differently than what he used to play in Dallas. So that's probably good for Lithuania's scouting, there is a lot of tape and video how that kind of roster with one superstar and a lot of role players work together. There is also a bunch of different defensive coverages that teams tried against Doncic and it could be a good indicator what works and what doesn't work against Doncic.

To be honest, I think this Slovenian team is very dangerous. Those role players like Blazic, Prepelic, Dragic, Muric, Sisko are absolutely capable of making huge impact on game. Cancar is a bit unknown, offensively he will be crashing the glass and spotting up, while defensively he is going to be physical (really good body) and actually if Omic won't play or Slovenian bigs get into foul trouble he can take some defensive assignments vs Valanciunas/Sabons. He can be an X factor for Slovenia, especially defensively. Also, there isn't just Doncic who is good with ball, but also Sisko can do a fairly good job replacing Doncic a little bit giving him extra break. I always felt like this Slovenian team has a bunch of those same type of players at guard position - small, always undersized, physically not imposing at all, but really good shooters like Rupnik, Lapornik, Mahkovic, Rebec...It's really important to do a good scouting work on those players, they are capable of punishing defense if underestimated.

It's crucial for Slovenia that Omic plays. A really needed big body vs Liths frontcourt. Vidmar is experienced and tough but him alone won't be enough even on a good shooting day for Slovenia. I think Slovenian team can field a very good lineup: Doncic/Prepelic/Blazic/Cancar/Omic followed by Sisko, Nikolic, Dragic, Vidmar. Nikolic might play with Doncic as he is aggressive on ball defender and will try to make a huge pressure on Kalnietis/Lekavicius/Jokubaitis and make Doncic relax a little bit on defensive end which could also be very important throughout the game and in crunch time.

Huge advantage for Liths in the paint area, while Slovenian guards I think are more than capable of outplaying Lithuanian guards. Advantages and disadvantages are pretty clear on both sides.

Straight forward
06-10-2021, 12:56 PM
Absolutely. I agree that Omic and Cancar are X factors for Slovenia. Throw couple of sturdy bigs against Sabonis and JV and that may be enough t slow them down. Paint area is really thin in FIBA and the game is much more physical, rigid. So if you have guys like Omic, Vidmar who can just go off for a fist fight it's already good news for Slovenia (and I agree Cancar is nicely bulked, he's ain't no kid anymore). On other hand, I hope refs will allow to beat the shit out of Doncic a little but as well, but knowing his status now refs might really give him some calls and easy point at the line. And, yeah, we somehow will have to provide our best shot to slow down Slovenia's shooting and they have a lot of shooting...

Interesting moment that Slovenia's coach is just as much no-body as ours. And we may even have advantage as our coach may have advice of Jasikevicius how to set a defensive plan, how to utilize one or other advantage of Lithuania.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-10-2021, 01:08 PM
Slovenia's roster. They start the camp today. Doncic joins June 15. Now that Jordan is out, Cancar might be important for them (Nuggets goes down 2:0 heavily against the Suns so he should come). It's unknown yet if Alen Omic will join, he's pissed because Slovenia picked Randolph in 2017. That big center would be really handy for Slovenia. Some of Slovenia's Eurocup's pieces are underrated as Jaka Blazic. Last year Prepelic was doing something like Blazic did this year in Eurocup, then Prepelic joined Valencia and, guess what, he was playing well in EL.

Jaka Blažič („Cedevita Olimpija“), Vlatko Čančar („Denver Nuggets“), Jakom Čebašek („Dinamo Bukarešta“), Žiga Dimec („Cedevita Olimpija“), Luka Dončič („Mavericks“), Zoran Dragič („Baskonia“), Gregor Glas („Dynamic“), Gregor Hrovat („Cholet“), Jan Kosi (Krka), Miha Lapornik („Den Bosch Heroes“), Jurij Macura (FMP), Blaž Mahkovic („Helios Suns“), Edo Murič („Cedevita Olimpija“), Aleksej Nikolič („Gravelines“), Alen Omič („Jl Bourg Basket“), Klemen Prepelič („Valencia“), Matic Rebec („Orasi Ravenna“), Luka Rupnik („Cedevita Olimpija“), Žan Mark Šiško („Bayern“), Gašper Vidmar („Umana Reyer“).
I am eager to see how Šiško will work out as the first PG, apart from that Zoran Dragič will add some depth to the perimeter, while needless to say Randolph and Dragič can't be replaced. And neither can Vidmar's defense, he had too many injuries this season and won't be competing with NT anymore. We'll be really thin inside the paint.

As for Omič, he might create more problems with his head than provide solutions with his basketball knowledge. I honestly am not sure if I would prefer him to come and play or sit at home. Sure Dimec is a cartoon character, but at least you know what to expect with him. Actualy, I think I prefer Macura in NT to Omič, nevermind the difference in quality.

Serbian_Layup
06-10-2021, 01:13 PM
Doncic is a machine for drawing fouls. So, yes, I think refereeing criteria is going to be very important. Doncic is a big name, it's easy to blow whistle in his favor, but on the other hand it's your home in front of your fans so that might make some balance.

Straight forward
06-10-2021, 01:18 PM
I am eager to see how Šiško will work out as the first PG, apart from that Zoran Dragič will add some depth to the perimeter, while needless to say Randolph and Dragič can't be replaced. And neither can Vidmar's defense, he had too many injuries this season and won't be competing with NT anymore. We'll be really thin inside the paint.

So Omic is even more vital for you.

On other hand, Doncic will be with the ball in his hands all game long pretty much or you think that Slovenia will try to make his life easier allowing Sisko to facilitate Doncic in the high post? Maybe here and there surely, but Doncic with the ball is a threat from the second one, and he will want everything: fast brakes, baseball passes, aggressive penetration at the half court line observing the contact. A lot of angles in this game, will be interesting how it will pan out. The same Prepelic can take things into his matters as he did in 2017 EB final when Donic got hurt and Dragic gassed, he carried the team. On the other hand, I wish Lithuania would pretty much use all 12 players rotations, some of tiny role players just coming out and giving their last breath in their 5-10min. Thus Lithuania would utilize the advantage of the size, athleticism, toughness to make it an impact.

Serbian_Layup
06-10-2021, 01:22 PM
Also forgot about Muric...he will add length and size for Slovenia at forward positions. Physical and capable of hitting shots, though not too reliable. Good defensive presence. Slovenia definitely has 10 good players and their potential second lineup with Sisko-Nikolic-Dragic-Muric-Vidmar is also competitive. What's up with Vidmar? Why wouldn't he play if he is on the list? That would be a huge blow for Slovenia.

Toruko
06-10-2021, 01:44 PM
Whats with Vlatko Cancar? Hell also be available when Denver losts the series against Phoenix. Blaz Mesicek is also a young guy with potential.

Straight forward
06-10-2021, 01:54 PM
Blaz Mesicek is also a young guy with potential.

Irrelevant. Not included among candidates.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-10-2021, 03:53 PM
Whats with Vlatko Cancar? Hell also be available when Denver losts the series against Phoenix. Blaz Mesicek is also a young guy with potential.
Yeah, Čančar should be our primary PF. Yet to see how he will play after sitting in Denver for two seasons straight untill this one.
As far as Mesiček, he used to promise more than Šiško and Čančar 6-8 years ago, but was on the verge of stop playing basketball due to back injuries, I was told. He is not on NT level currently.

Killer Bob
06-11-2021, 06:41 AM
Vidmar cannot play and Mike Tobey is supposedly getting Slovenian passport.

If true, it can be huge for Slovenia. Tobey with his shooting theoretically fits great with Luka, providing much needed spacing and opening the paint.

Straight forward
06-11-2021, 07:58 AM
Vidmar cannot play and Mike Tobey is supposedly getting Slovenian passport.

If true, it can be huge for Slovenia. Tobey with his shooting theoretically fits great with Luka, providing much needed spacing and opening the paint.

What is Tobey's connection with Slovenia?

Killer Bob
06-11-2021, 08:15 AM
What is Tobey's connection with Slovenia?

He was once on vacation there.

Rules are pretty clear about, who can play for NT, but you can complain nonetheless.

Straight forward
06-11-2021, 08:44 AM
He was once on vacation there.

Rules are pretty clear about, who can play for NT, but you can complain nonetheless.

It should be changed. It's national team. Random guys who have zero connections with the country shouldn't be available.

Katastroika
06-11-2021, 08:48 AM
This rule was made for popularization of basketball - what is highly idiotic, too, but different story. I agree that is has to be changed. Big federations should agree on it.

And most importantly it's nice to see that countries like Croatia that used to naturalize found "agreement" between coaches and legends and public that they won't do it any more.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-11-2021, 09:20 AM
So Omic is even more vital for you.

On other hand, Doncic will be with the ball in his hands all game long pretty much or you think that Slovenia will try to make his life easier allowing Sisko to facilitate Doncic in the high post? Maybe here and there surely, but Doncic with the ball is a threat from the second one, and he will want everything: fast brakes, baseball passes, aggressive penetration at the half court line observing the contact. A lot of angles in this game, will be interesting how it will pan out. The same Prepelic can take things into his matters as he did in 2017 EB final when Donic got hurt and Dragic gassed, he carried the team. On the other hand, I wish Lithuania would pretty much use all 12 players rotations, some of tiny role players just coming out and giving their last breath in their 5-10min. Thus Lithuania would utilize the advantage of the size, athleticism, toughness to make it an impact.
Well, I am not a fan of Dončič going into extremes with taking care of 80% of the team's posessions I don't like the predictability of it. That's a James Harden type of basketball that in the long term just won't work, plain and simple. The good part is that he'll be surrounded with pretty decent shooters, but penetrations "at will" won't be as easy in FIBA ball as they were in NBA for him. Šiško and Prepelič should be involved in creation and hopefully our coach will have the guts and brains to assure that. Which remains to be seen first...

Toruko
06-11-2021, 09:32 AM
Slovenia has no front court but the back court is much stronger than LTUs. If a small forward guards him Doncic will just call a screen to match with Lekavicius or Kalnietis, then help will come eventually and Luka will either finish himself or find the open man. There will be big problems for LTU if the other guys if the guys make the shots. Dimec against JV will also be interesting to watch. With the current situation i would go with Slovenia.

Killer Bob
06-11-2021, 10:22 AM
It should be changed. It's national team. Random guys who have zero connections with the country shouldn't be available.

Firstly it's the rule. What should or shouldn't be doesn't matter. Secondly it's 1 player and in Slovenian case not exactly a star and it's not because Slovenian basketball school isn't capable of create good enough basketball players, but simply because genetics& small population don't provide enough bigs.

Straight forward
06-13-2021, 11:54 AM
Vidmar is out duo health problems. Likely the end of career. Omic still an open question. And indeed Slovenia fishing another random foreigner. Mike Tobey as main goal. I can't call it other than fishing or buying because naturalization should be a process of some person relating with certain country. Now they just pick a random guy :) That's so disgusting. Imagine that in Lithuanian NT camp, LOL...It would be like spitting on an altar. The whole idea of national team would collapse. I'll never respect that. I can understand some Americans naturalization who played for Olimpia for some 4-5 years, but not some random guy. If say Walkup would have stayd for another 2 years in Zalgiris, I wouldn't be all that much against the idea to naturalize him as he even now treated almost as Lithuanian in Zalgiris locker room, but that's out hand really with Tobey.

Straight forward
06-13-2021, 12:19 PM
By the way, here's one of Doncic' weaknesses ATM. As LTU fan, I hope he'll go for those contested wild shots playing for the NT as well (just as long as Slovenia is an obstacle for Lithuania at this stage...cause generally I'm a big fan of Doncic game :):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lbmsrMbJ0

Hepcat
06-13-2021, 03:51 PM
So his name is written Luka Dončić. Yet I hear both the c letters pronounced "ch". This puzzles me. They're written differently. Why are they pronounced the same way?

:confused:

Katastroika
06-13-2021, 04:00 PM
They aren't pronounced the same way but Slovenian language has no letter č. Luka's surname is written with ć as his father has Serbian origins. Nothing special and most westerners don't recognize the difference anyway. :)
Jošjo Poljak in this forum for example writes Dončič. It's no big deal. When I learnt Greek in school the different writings of letter "o" drove me crazy, maybe this is a good comparison :)

Ć = Chechnya
Č = maybe chat (harder pronounciation)

ChuckDiesel2
06-15-2021, 11:27 PM
Damn, bummer about Vidmar. He was one of my favorite parts of Slovenia's 2017 title team. Tobey is solid but if they're picking big white Americans I would've gone after Kaleb Tarczewski first.

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 08:47 AM
Sisko is out because of injury.

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 11:51 AM
Mike Tobey is officially member of Slovenian team.

Toruko
06-16-2021, 12:14 PM
Mike Tobey is officially member of Slovenian team.

How fast are you?

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 12:27 PM
How fast are you?

Do you understand word officially?

https://images.app.goo.gl/LDcK8rgXNXjA2kd97

Straight forward
06-16-2021, 12:47 PM
Mike Tobey is officially member of Slovenian team.

That's a cheap shot :) Completely random guy. This makes Slovenian NT + random guy as key big. I really hope you guys will receive a lesson because that. Ain't no deserving to be in Olympic family because of such attitude. Maybe that's the reason why Slovenia never made it.

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 12:54 PM
That's a cheap shot :) Completely random guy. This makes Slovenian NT + random guy as key big. I really hope you guys will receive a lesson because that. Ain't no deserving to be in Olympic family because of such attitude. Maybe that's the reason why Slovenia never made it.

Your opinion is very important for people and players in Slovenia. I hope that Tobey doesn't have good game against Lithuania because that would have been totally unfair. Lithuania deserves to qualify.

madmax
06-16-2021, 01:10 PM
Massive congrats to the newly spawned slovenian from me too!

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 01:26 PM
It looks to me that some here are very afraid of Olympic qualifiers. ;)

Btw. isn't totally unfair that Lithuania has home court advantage in tournament like that?

LuDux
06-16-2021, 01:34 PM
It looks to me that some here are very afraid of Olympic qualifiers. ;)


We noticed

Straight forward
06-16-2021, 01:39 PM
Btw. isn't totally unfair that Lithuania has home court advantage in tournament like that?

Why? It will be your advantage. The pressure would be all on us even if that would take place in Ljubljana. We never missed Olympic games, it's the key tournament for us when we gather all best players (this season it's also the case, only Ulanovas goes off duo to injury as a lock of NT). I believe playing at home will only bring additional pressure to us. We choked under such conditions in 2011 4finals against Macedonia. Slovenia is tiny NT which never played in Olympics, stands 16th in FIBA rankings. If you will fail, no-one will care too much, for us it will be unprecedented and 2 weeks depression.

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 01:40 PM
We noticed

Yes words as cheap shot, newly spawned...are not that difficult to notice. ;)

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 01:47 PM
Why? It will be your advantage. The pressure would be all on us even if that would take place in Ljubljana. We never missed Olympic games, it's the key tournament for us when we gather all best players (this season it's also the case, only Ulanovas goes off duo to injury as a lock of NT). I believe playing at home will only bring additional pressure to us. We choked under such conditions in 2011 4finals against Macedonia. Slovenia is tiny NT which never played in Olympics, stands 16th in FIBA rankings. If you will fail, no-one will care too much, for us it will be unprecedented and 2 weeks depression.

Tiny NT, who has top 5 player in the world and is current Eurobasket champion. ;)

Playing at home is huge advantage in basketball. You're full of fairness, so playing at home looks extremely unfair to me. Or maybe we should understand that rules are the same for everyone and let the best win?

Straight forward
06-16-2021, 01:51 PM
Tiny NT, who has top 5 player in the world and is current Eurobasket champion. ;)

Playing at home is huge advantage in basketball. You're full of fairness, so playing at home looks extremely unfair to me. Or maybe we should understand that rules are the same for everyone?

Did Slovenian federation even apply for hosting qualification?

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 02:01 PM
Your opinion is very important for people and players in Slovenia. I hope that Tobey doesn't have good game against Lithuania because that would have been totally unfair. Lithuania deserves to qualify.


Did Slovenian federation even apply for hosting qualification?

I don't know, but it's obvious that Lithuania applied to have an advantage in comparison to others, like Slovenia has taken advantage of foreign rule.

Straight forward
06-16-2021, 02:14 PM
I don't know, but it's obvious that Lithuania applied to have an advantage in comparison to others, like Slovenia has taken advantage of foreign rule.

It's not the same. To apply for hosting and to grab random guy to your team. Again, Tobey has nothing to do with Slovenia. Nothing, zero. He's an alien, stranger, passerby. At least he would play in Slovenian club or whatever, no it's just out of the blew sky :D

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 02:32 PM
It's not the same. To apply for hosting and to grab random guy to your team. Again, Tobey has nothing to do with Slovenia. Nothing, zero. He's an alien, stranger, passerby. At least he would play in Slovenian club or whatever, no it's just out of the blew sky :D

I don't know what good will all this crying about something totally by the rule bring, but it won't hurt Slovenian NT for sure, so be my guest and continue.

Straight forward
06-16-2021, 02:44 PM
It never will help to earn respect as NT either. I respected Slovenia in 00s, now it's sellouts since 2017. Also it means Slovenia gives passports for no reason, just randomly. What does it say about the country? We gave Brazdeikis passport because he was born in Lithuania, he lived here, he talks Lithuanian, both parents are Lithuanians. That I can understand, but just to give random American a passport in a force majure manner...That's low, and Slovenian NT is just a bunch of conformists since 2017. Donic as well, he would have a word on it and it would be more than heard, but he's ain't talking. Respect to Croatia though and I hope other countries will follow which respect national teams competition. The aim is not to equalize all teams, the aim is to compete between NATIONAL teams.

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 03:38 PM
It never will help to earn respect as NT either. I respected Slovenia in 00s, now it's sellouts since 2017. Also it means Slovenia gives passports for no reason, just randomly. What does it say about the country? We gave Brazdeikis passport because he was born in Lithuania, he lived here, he talks Lithuanian, both parents are Lithuanians. That I can understand, but just to give random American a passport in a force majure manner...That's low, and Slovenian NT is just a bunch of conformists since 2017. Donic as well, he would have a word on it and it would be more than heard, but he's ain't talking. Respect to Croatia though and I hope other countries will follow which respect national teams competition. The aim is not to equalize all teams, the aim is to compete between NATIONAL teams.

I understand, no respect. On the other hand people from Slovenia weren't too depressed about that in 2017. ;)

https://youtu.be/pK6X6BBE7_M

Shawshank
06-16-2021, 04:53 PM
Our federation had hard time over a year to return Brazdeikis his citizenship he got automatically when he born in kaunas back in 99, because in ltu citizenship is not thing you can buy if you lose it.

In Slovenia it seems few weeks and it's all good with this American case there you have a Slovenian passport.

That American never even visit Slovenia right? :)

Russia and Croatia NT was doing that but after few tournament their best players said if federation again gonna bring random American we are not playing.

I know well if ever our federation would even suggest get some random American our players won't need even few tournaments like half of team wouldn't show up to camp.

Pride and history our NT team build in basketball in all those decades we are not putting dirt on it and go cheat code and naturalise American pg we needed badly always.

Our NT had heartbreaks from Holden's Russia or Macedonia's mclabebs, but at that end of the that lietuva NT where our NBA millionaires comming and playing hard for free for their home country.

If our federation start paying money to random American that would be disgrace to those ltu players that represented our nation colours from deep inside,not because they got paid.


NT is not clubs and if nt change diffrent American and pay him money to play for their nation colors every years that's looks really pathetic.

Either way that American have no shot againts Sabonis and Valanciunas inside.

Only Doncic gives them fighting shot.

Hepcat
06-16-2021, 06:21 PM
I don't know what good will all this crying about something totally by the rule bring, but it won't hurt Slovenian NT for sure, so be my guest and continue.

Cut the crap. Do you admit to being in favour of FIBA's naturalization rule in general? Would you still be in favour of the rule if and when say Luka Dončić or some other Slovenian star went under the knife in some secret clinic to change his nationality to Spanish or French because that's where the big Euros are?

:confused:

Hepcat
06-16-2021, 06:30 PM
Massive congrats to the newly spawned slovenian from me too!

https://www.ballersabroad.com/uploads/4/5/2/8/45289395/editor/865817051.png?1542418725

Mikola Tobić! I wonder how long it will take him before he can order a Big Mac in Ljubljana?

:confused:

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 06:31 PM
Cut the crap. Do you admit to being in favour of FIBA's naturalization rule in general? Would you still be in favour of the rule if and when say Luka Dončić or some other Slovenian star went under the knife in some secret clinic to change his nationality to Spanish or French because that's where the big Euros are?

:confused:

It's really simple, there's 0 bigs in Slovenia. Not because of bad basketball school, but because of genetics in 2 mio population. Slovenia can give passport to solid big or stop competing for next 10 years. So sure I like the rule for Slovenia. And like someone said Tobey won't be game changer against Lithuania, he means only not playing Dimec for 40 minutes.

Luka's next contract is 200 mio worth. ;)

madmax
06-16-2021, 06:56 PM
https://www.ballersabroad.com/uploads/4/5/2/8/45289395/editor/865817051.png?1542418725

Mikola Tobić! I wonder how long it will take him before he can order a Big Mac in Ljubljana?

:confused:

how could anyone not marvel at these expressive slavic features this fella possesses?
At least the guy seems to be of white heritage, which is already a big step up from Antolphin Randolphic...D

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 07:03 PM
how could anyone not marvel at these expressive slavic features this fella possesses?
At least the guy seems to be of white heritage, which is already a big step up from Antolphin Randolphic...D

I was sure that this conversation will end with racist remarks. No disappointment here.

Hepcat
06-16-2021, 07:20 PM
It's really simple, there's 0 bigs in Slovenia. Not because of bad basketball school, but because of genetics in 2 mio population.
Luka's next contract is 200 mio worth. ;)

Huh? What's wrong with Alen Omić?

:confused:

Killer Bob
06-16-2021, 07:23 PM
Huh? What's wrong with Alen Omić?

:confused:

He's naturalized too ;) and in bad relationships with KZS because of Eurobasket 2017.

Hepcat
06-17-2021, 12:28 AM
Only FIBA bureaucrats take any stock in those "naturalization" rules. I sneer at them. Basically they enable richer European countries to mine the rest of the globe for young talent and bring to their countries to play basketball.

Suffice it to say that neither I nor any other international basketball fan would question Alen Omić's presence on the Slovenian team:


Alen Omić (born May 6, 1992) is a Bosnian-born Slovenian professional basketball player.... Omić made his debut for the senior Slovenian national team at the 2014 FIBA World Cup. He also represented Slovenia at the EuroBasket 2015

:(

Killer Bob
06-17-2021, 05:24 AM
Only FIBA bureaucrats take any stock in those "naturalization" rules. I sneer at them. Basically they enable richer European countries to mine the rest of the globe for young talent and bring to their countries to play basketball.

Suffice it to say that neither I nor any other international basketball fan would question Alen Omić's presence on the Slovenian team:



:(

It doesn't matter who question anything, Omic is naturalised too and more importantly, he didn't play a single game for Slovenia in last 4 years. He's playing in France in playoffs, so even, if he forgets everything that was said in last years, he isn't available at the moment.

All this discussion is futile, Slovenia didn't make the rules, Fiba had. I will only add that perspective from near 40 mio country might be a little different than from 2 mio country.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-17-2021, 09:55 AM
Well, okay. Let's than agree to ban all foreigners from all NT's. Not a problem to me.
Untill than, should Slovenia really be the one avoding naturalisations, while Spain, Italy, Russia or Germany freely do so, kicking us out of the tournaments as in the previous 2 decades? It's okay for us to lose Gregor Fučka to naturalisation (eurobasket MVP at one point) and noone having a problem with it, while on the other side us naturalising Randolph is a deal breaker?
Next thing, can we also than discuss a little bit about the effect of GM's sabotaging participation in NT's for various players or managers conviencing players not to play, or do you really believe Slovenia had such a bad luck from 2003 to 2015 that it could never assemble even aproximately complete teams and various Vatoutin's, Filipovič's etc. had nothing to do with it?

Untill than, I couldn't care less if we naturalise an average center as this one. I would be a bit different if we naturalised Brook Lopez as we almost did.

Shawshank
06-17-2021, 12:41 PM
Well, okay. Let's than agree to ban all foreigners from all NT's. Not a problem to me.
Untill than, should Slovenia really be the one avoding naturalisations, while Spain, Italy, Russia or Germany freely do so, kicking us out of the tournaments as in the previous 2 decades? It's okay for us to lose Gregor Fučka to naturalisation (eurobasket MVP at one point) and noone having a problem with it, while on the other side us naturalising Randolph is a deal breaker?
Next thing, can we also than discuss a little bit about the effect of GM's sabotaging participation in NT's for various players or managers conviencing players not to play, or do you really believe Slovenia had such a bad luck from 2003 to 2015 that it could never assemble even aproximately complete teams and various Vatoutin's, Filipovič's etc. had nothing to do with it?

Untill than, I couldn't care less if we naturalise an average center as this one. I would be a bit different if we naturalised Brook Lopez as we almost did.

So if NT naturalise player atleast dont do in such pathetic way : 2017 one american, fiba qualification another american,for olympic 3rd american and eurorbasket 2022 your Nt will find 4th american ale smith or brown ? :)

Slovenian NT naturalisation reached another level. Even Russia used to same american for few tournaments. Slovenia NT have no pride what so ever Morgan got injury,Omic said no. No problems in few weeks we gonna give passport to 3rd foreigner .

Tell me another respectable basketball NT who does like that even right now changes diffrent american player every year?

I cant respect NT that dont respect themselfs . Going cheat code at any cost even in fiba window qualification games where B NT plays .

Killer Bob
06-17-2021, 01:10 PM
Fans from Lithuania already prepared excuse for not making to Olympics. Cheat code Tobey is too good for Valanciunas and Sabonis. :D

Shawshank
06-17-2021, 01:22 PM
Fans from Lithuania already prepared excuse for not making to Olympics. Cheat code Tobey is too good for Valanciunas and Sabonis. :D

bobby you understand well what i mean,but when there is no contraraguments just make lame joke :)

We have lost to Russia leaded Holden semifinal or Mclabbebs leaded Macedonia 1/4 game but that didnt change how NT saw naturalisation and it wont change by outcome in Kaunas either. .

LTU lose and wins playing their own boys.

Slovenia NT only shows weakness in such desperate way doing naturalisation at big position week before tournament, because they fear Valanciunas and Sabonis alot not other way around :)

Killer Bob
06-17-2021, 02:11 PM
bobby you understand well what i mean,but when there is no contraraguments just make lame joke :)

We have lost to Russia leaded Holden semifinal or Mclabbebs leaded Macedonia 1/4 game but that didnt change how NT saw naturalisation and it wont change by outcome in Kaunas either. .

LTU lose and wins playing their own boys.

Slovenia NT only shows weakness in such desperate way doing naturalisation at big position week before tournament, because they fear Valanciunas and Sabonis alot not other way around :)

If you compare 150 mio Russia with 2 mio Slovenia, you for sure don't understand situation at all. I don't believe that there are much more than 5 people between 20-35 years and having 210 cm or more in Slovenia. That's your base for making good C, counting that all 5 players want to play basketball in first place. It's not by chance that Slovenia never had problems with guards.

It's really simple, you cannot play any kind of basketball with Dimec being only C. Tobey was only open option.

I don't know, who is afraid, but I for sure believe that Slovenia can win qualifications. On the other hand fans from Lithuania are outraged with Tobey addition. I doubt very much that would have been the case if Slovenia played in other group.

Few years ago Spain and Serbia wanted to steal Luka from Slovenia. That would have been really huge for European basketball for next 15 years and I didn't hear anything about how unfair is that. Tobey is not game changer, he's below average starter for this position and suddenly whole Lithuania is crying. Just pathetic.

Straight forward
06-17-2021, 02:50 PM
It's surely not only on Slovenia. Big f...you to all countries who naturalize players, specially those who are among TOP 15 EURO teams anyway. No respect for Spain trying to grab Doncic, but Serbia had at least some arguments, Donic's father is Slovenian of Sebian descent. It should be banned for anyone, it distorts the competition. Why the f...Spain needed naturalized players? :) It was a bit overlooked because Spain was anyway head and shoulders above anyone else for decade and more so it just slipped and people didn't talk too much. But when say Latvia got knocked out only because Slovenia naturalized some random American, it's a different story (again, I personally despise all NTs who goes for naturalization and it should stop). It's not how good your new citizen who never was in his suddenly native country, it's that quick and cheap "naturalization" which sounds ridiculous at this point. If you grab some scrub, it would be even bigger joke, but this guy might be an X facor, he can shoot and he will have his opportunities to shoot.

Killer Bob
06-17-2021, 03:23 PM
As I said all this discussion is futile, because naturalisation is allowed. It's like talking how players in Nba shouldn't taking advantage of some rules that favourite attackers. Do you really believe that stars in Nba won't take advantage of drawing fouls with not natural shooting motion? They will. Nba will have to change rules and they're already talking about that.

Fiba's rule has some logic for small countries. Basketball is sport for big people and smaller country you have, less chances you have, because your base of potential basketball players is too small. Lithuania is an outliner, because basketball is far the most popular and successful sport. Slovenia on the other hand is sporting phenomenon. We're extremely good in many sports, but base for basketball, especially for bigs is too small. Fiba can change the rule, no more cheat code, but smaller nations will have even less success. But until it's changed, I really see no point, why especially smaller nations wouldn't take advantage of it.

LuDux
06-17-2021, 08:52 PM
Only 14.95 SLT. Grab it while it's hot

Dreamcatcher
06-17-2021, 08:59 PM
Leaving alone nathuralisation question in FIBA basketball, l'm thinking how cheap is a passport of such countries like Slovenia (Turkey, Ukraine...) if they're giving it to some random American players who are not stars so that they would play 1-2 tournaments representing their NT and then they would take another one. Personally i wouldn't be OK that some Tobey, or Morgan, or whatever he would be who has no real connections with my country would represent it only because he would be OK to get a European passport or (what is worse) getting paid for that. I would be really against that and thank God i'm in the right country here ( not generally unfortunately....but could be worse though...).

Killer Bob
06-17-2021, 09:52 PM
It looks that Lithuania has already won qualifications, we just have to see if on court or only morally.

Killer Bob
06-17-2021, 10:06 PM
If we say something about basketball for change, Mavericks imploding doesn't seem to be good for Luka's state of mind. Just incredible events in last days.

ChuckDiesel2
06-18-2021, 12:10 AM
Yeah, either end all naturalizations or stop bitching about it. As an American I’ve had fun watching Americans thrive for other national teams teams through the years (from JR Holden to Bo McCalebb to Randolph) and believe they’ve enhanced the overall product, but it obviously doesn’t make sense to represent a country you’re not from.

In a perfect world they ban all naturalizations for national teams but also get rid of the bizarre passport nonsense/limitations on American players overseas. It’s absurd that Brandon Davies has to have phony Armenian papers to play in Spain.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-18-2021, 06:41 AM
Yeah, either end all naturalizations or stop bitching about it. As an American I’ve had fun watching Americans thrive for other national teams teams through the years (from JR Holden to Bo McCalebb to Randolph) and believe they’ve enchanced the overall product, but it obviously doesn’t make sense to represent a country you’re not from.

In a perfect world they ban all national naturalizations for national teams but also get rid of of the bizarre passport nonsense/limitations on American players overseas. It’s absurd that Brandon Davies has to have phony Armenian papers to play in Spain.
You are right on point with passport limitations, however US has surpassed europe with players production to the extent that's not realisticaly possible. Leagues would be flooded with US players. And of course it's easier to impose rules like that, compared to taking care of domestic players production that could rival the level of US players coming over.

Straight forward
06-18-2021, 12:26 PM
What happening with Maverics? Donne Nelson leaves as GM and he was Doncic's guy, he drafted him (why to leave now when you have generational talent who needs right pieces? Mavs might create a dynasty). Carlisle one other hand probably super pissed handling Doncic and those 2 never got together probably. Doncic is generational talent, but he's not an easy player to play with. He's one of these superstars who can whine about timeouts timing, he can ignore the coach and ect. He doesn't give a f...how long Porizingis stands open at the three point line, and the guy himself has a potential to be a superstar in the league if healthy. I think Dallas will do everything to extend Doncic and to give him the right coach and players around, but Doncic should also to grow into the leader not just to be too egoistic BB prodigy.

Can this affect Doncic performance in Kaunas? I doubt.

Killer Bob
06-18-2021, 12:45 PM
What happening with Maverics? Donne Nelson leaves as GM and he was Doncic's guy, he drafted him (why to leave now when you have generational talent who needs right pieces? Mavs might create a dynasty). Carlisle one other hand probably super pissed handling Doncic and those 2 never got together probably. Doncic is generational talent, but he's not an easy player to play with. He's one of these superstars who can whine about timeouts timing, he can ignore the coach and ect. He doesn't give a f...how long Porizingis stands open at the three point line, and the guy himself has a potential to be a superstar in the league if healthy. I think Dallas will do everything to extend Doncic and to give him the right coach and players around, but Doncic should also to grow into the leader not just to be too egoistic BB prodigy.

Can this affect Doncic performance in Kaunas? I doubt.

You should read article in The Athletic, all started with Bob Voulgaris, Director of Quantitative Research and Development for the Dallas Mavericks, ex poker player and sport gambler. Donnie supposedly leak informations to Athletic, because Voulgaris became stronger than him. And after that everything fell apart. All 3 gone.

It's really easy to build a team around Luka, you surround him with 3&D players and rim protector. KP, before injuries, would have been great fit. Now KP cannot defend anymore, so he's liability in D instead being rim protector. Mavs had to start with Boban, because Clippers were having free road in the paint. KP had to move to 4, paint was close and KP became just another Sf in 7'3 body. The biggest mistake was of course trading Seth for Richardson. It would have been 4:0 easily if Seth was playing or if KP could protect the rim. KP, in this condition, doesn't bring much. Bad D, no post move whatsoever, cannot create anything for himself and is defended easily by much smaller players.

Luka egoistic? Did you watch playoffs? There wasn't single player in Mavs roster, who could create anything for himself or others. Mavs falling apart every single time, when Luka was out. In game 3, it was 30:11, when RC pulled Luka out, he put him quickly back in, but momentum was gone and Clippers back in the game. Big disappointment was Brunson, no need to even talk about Richardson, who in RS looked as solid backup for Luka, but he was totally lost in that position in playoffs. Mavs with solid second Pg and normal C, would have been title contenders. Boban starting in modern Nba is just a joke and we're back on KP not being able to defend.

Both Donnie and Carlisle should have came in Slovenia next week, not now. I'm sure that big moves in Mavericks are for sure distraction for Luka.

Straight forward
06-18-2021, 01:30 PM
Yeah, I know that story and I actually love Luka fired back to that punk gambler. I'm sure Luka would find markets in the NBA LOL. Such punks have no say to prodigy Luka who sweats everyday in the gym. Fucking gamblers...Good riddance. I respect Marc Cuban, but Voulgaris can GTFO.

Hepcat
06-18-2021, 03:30 PM
So Adam Waczynski left the Polish team's training camp because he wasn't made team captain. Bizarre ego stuff like you'd expect from a high school kid methinks.

:rolleyes:

ChuckDiesel2
06-18-2021, 05:58 PM
Cuban just isn’t a good owner. Way too meddlesome, not nearly as smart as he thinks he is and prone to being swayed depending on who he has a crush on. Not to mention all of the sexual abuse stuff going on for years under his nose that he denied and denied before ultimately admitting to.

LuDux
06-18-2021, 06:07 PM
Yeah, I know that story and I actually love Luka fired back to that punk gambler. I'm sure Luka would find markets in the NBA LOL. Such punks have no say to prodigy Luka who sweats everyday in the gym. Fucking gamblers...Good riddance. I respect Marc Cuban, but Voulgaris can GTFO.


Why exactly Voulgaris bad guy here?

Straight forward
06-18-2021, 07:06 PM
Why exactly Voulgaris bad guy here?

No biggie. Not worth to continue.

Killer Bob
06-18-2021, 09:33 PM
Why exactly Voulgaris bad guy here?

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/06/mavs-rumors-front-office-voulgaris-doncic-carlisle.html

Luka supposedly asked Carlisle during the game, who is the coach, him or Voulgaris?

LuDux
06-18-2021, 09:54 PM
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/06/mavs-rumors-front-office-voulgaris-doncic-carlisle.html

Luka supposedly asked Carlisle during the game, who is the coach, him or Voulgaris?


"Voulgaris, sitting with an open laptop in his typical courtside seat across from the Mavericks’ bench, motioned downward with his hands"

The horror!!!

On the other hand, his stands vision is even better than his court vision

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lbmsrMbJ0

Killer Bob
06-18-2021, 10:00 PM
Friendly against Croatia, Luka 17 assists, Tobey 26 points and index 37. :cool:

It looks only KP cannot get assists from Luka.:D

Toruko
06-18-2021, 10:17 PM
Friendly against Croatia, Luka 17 assists, Tobey 26 points and index 37. :cool:

It looks only KP cannot get assists from Luka.:D

It must be like heaven for Tobey for playing alongside Luka. He must be thinking "I was paired with "trash" and didnt even realize it" or something like that. :D

Killer Bob
06-19-2021, 09:50 AM
It must be like heaven for Tobey for playing alongside Luka. He must be thinking "I was paired with "trash" and didnt even realize it" or something like that. :D

It looked like they have played half a life together. Half of his points were alley oop dunks. On the other hand Luka put on another few kgs in last 10 days. I guess, good local food. :o Man has a body of recreational player, who likes to eat a lot.

Straight forward
06-19-2021, 11:14 AM
Friendly against Croatia, Luka 17 assists, Tobey 26 points and index 37. :cool:


"A guy who won't make any difference anyway"...:)

Killer Bob
06-19-2021, 11:16 AM
"A guy who won't make any difference anyway"...:)

A guy, who cannot pass to Porzingis, is making a difference.

Straight forward
06-19-2021, 11:21 AM
A guy, who cannot pass to Porzingis, is making a difference.

I was talking about Tobey. You guys were saying he'll have little impact.

Killer Bob
06-19-2021, 06:19 PM
I was talking about Tobey. You guys were saying he'll have little impact.

If someone is giving you alley oops every second possession, you will have those numbers. Unfortunately for Mavs Porzingis cannot roll.

ChuckDiesel2
06-19-2021, 06:43 PM
I’ve always wondered about why the Doncic/Kristaps dynamic didn’t work on a personal level. By all accounts they can’t stand each other, which is atypical of Euro teammates in the NBA. Wonder it it goes back to the Eurobasket 2017 beat down Doncic put on the Latvians or Kristap’s friendship with Slovenian enemy of the state Sasha Vujacic.

Hepcat
06-19-2021, 07:00 PM
On the other hand Luka put on another few kgs in last 10 days. I guess, good local food. :o

Good Slovenian cuisine is probably tough to find in Dallas.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/53b839afe4b07ea978436183/1563569973844-6GM87AQN6SMJ9OLD4MWM/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kNqGXDMamJefgeP-YbYT9itZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH 8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PIGRc0XSGUWZV9_x2_B-SKIdr7UT1wuW87zHKok6DJZOsKMshLAGzx4R3EDFOm1kBS/IMG_6459.jpg?format=1000w

;)

Killer Bob
06-19-2021, 07:03 PM
I’ve always wondered about why the Doncic/Kristaps dynamic didn’t work on a personal level. By all accounts they can’t stand each other, which is atypical of Euro teammates in the NBA. Wonder it it goes back to the Eurobasket 2017 beat down Doncic put on the Latvians or Kristap’s friendship with Slovenian enemy of the state Sasha Vujacic.

No. It's really easy KP is not C, he's SF, who cannot create anything, hidden in 7'3 body.

Toruko
06-19-2021, 07:05 PM
No. It's really easy KP is not C, he's SF, who cannot create anything, hidden in 7'3 body.

Oh he can create, the problem is that he has been playing like a pussy after Giannis injured him. It turned him to a non contact guy.

ChuckDiesel2
06-19-2021, 07:13 PM
No. It's really easy KP is not C, he's SF, who cannot create anything, hidden in 7'3 body.

So you think the poor basketball fit explains the personal animosity?

Toruko
06-19-2021, 07:16 PM
I tell you what the problem is. KP reached Allstar level when he was with the Knicks till his injury. He not only scored at high percentage but gave also rim protection etc. When he came to the MAVS the situation in his head was I will be the star alongside Doncic (not the second man) but things didnt turn out like this and now he is jealous.

Hepcat
06-19-2021, 07:29 PM
Oh he can create, the problem is that he has been playing like a pussy after Giannis injured him. It turned him to a non contact guy.

I've noticed that to be a developing trend in this era of "small ball" among big, tall players, especially the ones who've developed a three point shot. They think their shooting skills obviate the necessity of being a physically intimidating presence down low. Well they're wrong.

Kristaps Porzingis has to start using his size in the paint in order to achieve his full potential. Being a pretty boy at the three point line isn't enough. Yeah, yeah, I know he can dunk when he has an open lane to the basket but who the hell can't dunk these days?

ChuckDiesel2
06-19-2021, 07:35 PM
I tell you what the problem is. KP reached Allstar level when he was with the Knicks till his injury. He not only scored at high percentage but gave also rim protection etc. When he came to the MAVS the situation in his head was I will be the star alongside Doncic (not the second man) but things didnt turn out like this and now he is jealous.

I think you’re probably right. I also believe Luka bears some measure of responsibility for a dynamic that has turned Kristaps completely inward & ready to be traded. I realize he’s still a kid but certain franchise level stars have the ability to elevate their teammates into the best versions of themselves. Doncic gets compared to Magic Johnson all the time, and that’s something Magic understood right away that Luka’s failed to grasp. Surly Doncic realizes that an engaged, positive minded Kristaps gives him the best chance of winning. A few more touches here and there, maybe an arm around him or something to soothe his sensitive Baltic soul. Instead he seemed to freeze him out and treat KP the way Wizards MJ treated teenage rookie Kwame Brown. Again, not defending Kristaps being soft but Doncic hasn’t exactly helped.

madmax
06-19-2021, 07:46 PM
I think you’re probably right. I also believe Luka bears some measure of responsibility for a dynamic that has turned Kristaps completely inward & ready to be traded. I realize he’s still a kid but certain franchise level stars have the ability to elevate their teammates into the best versions of themselves. Doncic gets compared to Magic Johnson all the time, and that’s something Magic understood right away that Luka’s failed to grasp. Surly Doncic realizes that an engaged, positive minded Kristaps gives him the best chance of winning. A few more touches here and there, maybe an arm around him or something to soothe his sensitive Baltic soul. Instead he seemed to freeze him out and treat KP the way Wizards MJ treated teenage rookie Kwame Brown. Again, not defending Kristaps being soft but Doncic hasn’t exactly helped.

I really don't think Luka is the one to blame here in this particular dynamic...
Porzingis simply always striked me as a problematic self-obsessed diva with questionable character(he used to get into off-court altercations with random strangers in the past for no particular reason), so if there is one piece of a dynamic here to blame, that's definitely KP. I just think he's massively overrated and his true value is negligible in the grand scheme of things

Killer Bob
06-19-2021, 08:01 PM
People should watch more Mavericks before talking about situation.

1. It's not true that KP was better in New York. He had better counting numbers because he was playing for losing team, but he's efficiency was really bad. His efficiency is much better in Mavs.

2. He's not a C, if he's not rim protector. He's playing as 3 in offence.

3. Luka is playing without problems with Powell, Boban, WCS or Tobey, because they can roll.

4. What is a point of having 7'3 guy, if he's not rim protector and he has 0 post moves?

Toruko
06-19-2021, 08:16 PM
People should watch more Mavericks before talking about situation.

1. It's not true that KP was better in New York. He had better counting numbers because he was playing for losing team, but he's efficiency was really bad. His efficiency is much better in Mavs.

2. He's not a C, if he's not rim protector. He's playing as 3 in offence.

3. Luka is playing without problems with Powell, Boban, WCS or Tobey, because they can roll.

4. What is a point of having 7'3 guy, if he's not rim protector and he has 0 post moves?

Carlisle wants 4 guys out with Luka in the offense but yes KP is a 7'3 shooting guard not more but he was protecting the rim and he was quite good doing it but Giannis injury made him very anxious.

ChuckDiesel2
06-19-2021, 09:05 PM
KP was phenomenal for the Mavs at times, especially in the Bubble before getting injured. Completely checked out this season. In any event, he’s no Mike Tobey…

Killer Bob
06-19-2021, 10:00 PM
KP was phenomenal for the Mavs at times, especially in the Bubble before getting injured. Completely checked out this season. In any event, he’s no Mike Tobey…

Look, he was disastrous in D this year. Offense with his efficiency is really not that important, especially if he's unplayable in D.

Hepcat
06-20-2021, 01:02 AM
It's really easy KP is not C, he's SF, who cannot create anything, hidden in 7'3 body.


Carlisle wants 4 guys out with Luka in the offense but yes KP is a 7'3 shooting guard not more....

Would slotting a 7'3" player in at SG/SF not have been the decision of Coach Rick Carlisle? Combined with first round playoff exits, would that not be reason enough to fire Carlisle right there?

:confused:

Killer Bob
06-20-2021, 11:33 AM
Would slotting a 7'3" player in at SG/SF not have been the decision of Coach Rick Carlisle? Combined with first round playoff exits, would that not be reason enough to fire Carlisle right there?

:confused:

Carlisle is not guilty for KP's total physical regression and he's not guilty for disastrous trade Curry/Richardson. Clippers were clear favourites before playoffs, losing only 4:3 was more or less miracle done by Luka and in lesser extent THJ.

Carlisle can't play KP much differently, because KP is not playing like a big. He doesn't posses skills that bigs need.

LuDux
06-20-2021, 01:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOx2XgmR8Uk

Straight forward
06-20-2021, 04:00 PM
Dončič is so good at p'n'r and if he's willing to pass he's becoming even more dangerous than trying to win it by himself (gets gassed eventually). I really looking forward how Lithuania will use Valanciunas. At offensive end he would probably collect his 15-20pts in some 24min. and we need his impact, his elite rebounding, but he will get abused at the defensive end in p'n'r situations, abused badly. I think, if Lithuania wants to control the game and to have an edge over Slovenia, we should bring as much switch all ability as possible and the help defence should be super intense and hard. If we will involve into an open offensive game with Slovenia, I think Slovenia will outscore us, even though this Lithuanian NT is also good offensive team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QhznzB3l_s

Shawshank
06-21-2021, 05:02 PM
Watched on youtube Slovenia-Croatia that slovenian-american pikenrool works nicely.

Croatia looked limited team , good news for them Bogdanovich is comming and he alone makes them alot more dangerous.

What makes Doncic special he has 22 young body and have 35old veteran basketball mind .

im letting Luka play 1 vs 1 and score 30pts but limit his assists numbers involving others thats the way to go with him from my eyes.

Valanciunas and Sabonis first half job should be put that american in faul trouble to limit his minutes on the court and force Slovenia put Dimec at C.

ChuckDiesel2
06-21-2021, 06:50 PM
Watched on youtube Slovenia-Croatia that slovenian-american pikenrool works nicely.

Croatia looked limited team , good news for them Bogdanovich is comming and he alone makes them alot more dangerous.

What makes Doncic special he has 22 young body and have 35old veteran basketball mind .

im letting Luka play 1 vs 1 and score 30pts but limit his assists numbers involving others thats the way to go with him from my eyes.

Valanciunas and Sabonis first half job should be put that american in faul trouble to limit his minutes on the court and force Slovenia put Dimec at C.

You can say the name “Mike Tobey.” Pretty easy, way less letters than you’re used to typing.

Katastroika
06-21-2021, 07:00 PM
American has 8 letters and Mike Tobey 9 (10 with space) - so Shawshank is pretty effective, though.

Shawshank
06-21-2021, 09:06 PM
You can say the name “Mike Tobey.” Pretty easy, way less letters than you’re used to typing.

If he would wear USA jersey i would call him Mike Tobey. With Slovenian jersey he is "american" to me.

ChuckDiesel2
06-22-2021, 04:34 AM
Fair enough. I’m gonna start calling Domas “The American” then too. Born and raised in Portland, developed at Gonzaga. Hopefully it doesn’t get too confusing with all the Americans in here.

Katastroika
06-22-2021, 04:44 AM
Fair enough. I’m gonna start calling Domas “The American” then too. Born and raised in Portland, developed at Gonzaga. Hopefully it doesn’t get too confusing with all the Americans in here.

Domas has 5 letters, you should stay with Domas.

Miškinis
06-22-2021, 09:53 AM
Fair enough. I’m gonna start calling Domas “The American” then too. Born and raised in Portland, developed at Gonzaga. Hopefully it doesn’t get too confusing with all the Americans in here.

He was born is States. Raised in Spain. Thus, please. The Spanish guy ;)

madmax
06-22-2021, 10:28 AM
He was born is States. Raised in Spain. Thus, please. The Spanish guy ;)
D...
I'd suggest my fellow liths to stop getting their panties in a twist over this "monster" Mike Tobey which those pesky slovenians hired just to counter our NBA star studded front line lol...it's not like he's Nikola Jokic or Joel Embiid at the end of the day - he won't be a difference maker

LuDux
06-22-2021, 11:29 AM
D...
I'd suggest my fellow liths to stop getting their panties in a twist over this "monster" Mike Tobey which those pesky slovenians hired just to counter our NBA star studded front line lol...it's not like he's Nikola Jokic or Joel Embiid at the end of the day - he won't be a difference maker

https://y.yarn.co/107a3693-17ff-4da8-8468-b93e16cfc529_screenshot.jpg

Katastroika
06-22-2021, 01:20 PM
This Robin Hood looks like Grigonis. (Sorry for offtopic in offtopic ;))

madmax
06-22-2021, 02:32 PM
https://y.yarn.co/107a3693-17ff-4da8-8468-b93e16cfc529_screenshot.jpg

Don't get me wrong, I'm not thick - I understand why my local tribesmen are so vocal about this matter, with this fellow Tobey having no connections to the glorious land of Slovenia and yada yada and so on...but our own NBA All Star Domas was born in the States, raised in the sunny Spain and speaks our language in a heavy American accent D I guess you can tell where I'm going here in my rant lol

Hepcat
06-22-2021, 03:42 PM
...but our own NBA All Star Domas was born in the States ... and speaks our language in a heavy American accent D....

I've listened to his recent interviews and Domantas speaks Lithuanian very well though.

:)

mojo13
06-22-2021, 04:06 PM
I smell fear on this thread....

Hepcat
06-22-2021, 04:47 PM
You can say the name “Mike Tobey.” Pretty easy, way less letters than you’re used to typing.


American has 8 letters and Mike Tobey 9 (10 with space) - so Shawshank is pretty effective, though.


Domas has 5 letters, you should stay with Domas.

I would have just called Mike Tobey the "Yank" and been done with it in four letters.

;)

LuDux
06-22-2021, 05:30 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not thick - I understand why my local tribesmen are so vocal about this matter, with this fellow Tobey having no connections to the glorious land of Slovenia and yada yada and so on...but our own NBA All Star Domas was born in the States, raised in the sunny Spain and speaks our language in a heavy American accent D I guess you can tell where I'm going here in my rant lol

WAIT he speaks Lithuanian??? What a wannabe

Miškinis
06-22-2021, 06:32 PM
Not much to tell after a game against a weak opponent. Kalnietis form (perhaps as should be) is far from the one needed for the main PG. Hopefully Maskoliūnas will look at the situation realistically. What's sad is the total disappearance of Giedraitis and Bendžius. Not to mention, that perimeter defence was close to nonexisting at times. Other then that, it looks good.

Straight forward
06-23-2021, 09:47 AM
I smell fear on this thread....

It's all the package: worry, excitement, anxiousness, ambitions, expectations. I understand that our reactionary position to naturalization may be annoying to majority of NTs who just accepted it, and maybe even obsession of Lith fans towards NT may be irritating to some as well and create antagonism, it may be, but it's zenith of Olympic cycle and for us traditionally it's the MOMENT. We are the only European NT which qualified for all Olympics since 1992. We are ahead Spain, Serbia, France at this point. And our Olympic results are better than Australia's or Argentina's, 2 great Olympic teams. So aside USA, Lithuania stands as the most consistent and probably most achieved Olympic NT. At this point I don't really think we were 4th or 5th FIBA NT in rankings in 90s and 00s, we were de facto higher, IMO, we just tanked some WCs and some EBs at the begging of Olympic circle. Traditionally we didn't pay so much attention to WCs, our stars tend to skip it here and there, but for Olympic tournaments we gather all best and that's basically all what Lithuanian BB is about, that's the biggest stage, the best tournament and we show up (thus to me even the loss of Ulanovas and Brazdeikis are meaningful). We lost a lot of talent since the mid 10's, and only now slowly building up again, bet to be knocked out from Olympics would be big blow for us. So sorry for the smell, but it can't go any other way.

Mindozas
06-26-2021, 11:28 AM
Long time no see, hello guys :) one of my last posts here, before my looong break :) Well looking at it all, blaming Slovenia is not right, they are playing under the rules, blaming FIBA - that's the point. Stupid naturalizations. Tobey.. well, he is not some A.Davis, but let's not pretend that he is nobody. Sure, Doncic will make plays, but one thing is to make plays with Ziga Dimec, other with Tobey, who is much better with that. It will make big difference. Also I've read it here some stuff like "we are small country and etc, genetics", c'mon, you play with what you have, that's the point of international competitions or should we follow some Qatar path in handball? We have national competition to decide who is the best at that given time, you don't have a big guy, ok, deal with that, we don't have a PG, we try to either. It's just stupid that in history of basketball we have some countries winning it all with a help of foreigners, 2007 it had to be not Russia, but Russia/USA i.e. Again, nothing against Slovenia taking advantage of this stupid rule, but FIBA must get rid of it

Straight forward
06-26-2021, 02:14 PM
one of my last posts here, before my looong break :)

Army? :)

Killer Bob
06-26-2021, 02:37 PM
Long time no see, hello guys :) one of my last posts here, before my looong break :) Well looking at it all, blaming Slovenia is not right, they are playing under the rules, blaming FIBA - that's the point. Stupid naturalizations. Tobey.. well, he is not some A.Davis, but let's not pretend that he is nobody. Sure, Doncic will make plays, but one thing is to make plays with Ziga Dimec, other with Tobey, who is much better with that. It will make big difference. Also I've read it here some stuff like "we are small country and etc, genetics", c'mon, you play with what you have, that's the point of international competitions or should we follow some Qatar path in handball? We have national competition to decide who is the best at that given time, you don't have a big guy, ok, deal with that, we don't have a PG, we try to either. It's just stupid that in history of basketball we have some countries winning it all with a help of foreigners, 2007 it had to be not Russia, but Russia/USA i.e. Again, nothing against Slovenia taking advantage of this stupid rule, but FIBA must get rid of it

About small countries and genetics. I believe it's something totally different if Russia, Spain...naturalise players, there really aren't any explanations. In case of Slovenia it's simple, there aren't any bigs, because genetics in small country. Rules allows naturalisation, Slovenia would have been stupid, if they came in big competition without anyone who can play in 5.

About Tobey, yes he's much better than Dimec, but he will go against Nba stars in that position, Lithuania still clear better in 4/5. Tobey is just giving Slovenia fighting chance. In the end everything will be on Luka and roll players, who might or might not have good shooting night.

janketa
06-26-2021, 02:50 PM
Lithuania is favorite imo, but any team with Luka Doncic can't be underdog. I expect from Slovenia good fight and maybe even pass

Mindozas
06-26-2021, 03:22 PM
Army? :)

No, I'm a bit old for that, probably :) I'm in my 30s, I guess we have our army till 26 or smth, whatever :) Nah just a bit of enough to me and I guess take a break from me.. the one annoying ant etc :D


About small countries and genetics. I believe it's something totally different if Russia, Spain...naturalise players, there really aren't any explanations. In case of Slovenia it's simple, there aren't any bigs, because genetics in small country. Rules allows naturalisation, Slovenia would have been stupid, if they came in big competition without anyone who can play in 5.

About Tobey, yes he's much better than Dimec, but he will go against Nba stars in that position, Lithuania still clear better in 4/5. Tobey is just giving Slovenia fighting chance. In the end everything will be on Luka and roll players, who might or might not have good shooting night.

Yep, Bobby, it will all end with Luka. As I wrote, you are good, you simply took advantage of this rule. And it can be vital., but I'm not going to deny that you are better now, but not going to deny that's is not your fault, FIBA hello :)

Hepcat
06-26-2021, 07:27 PM
I smell fear on this thread....

Failing to qualify for the Olympics in men's basketball will quite simply be seen as a national disaster in Lithuania. The whole country will sink into a depression emotionally.

:(

juli_rc
06-28-2021, 12:27 PM
It's all the package: worry, excitement, anxiousness, ambitions, expectations. I understand that our reactionary position to naturalization may be annoying to majority of NTs who just accepted it, and maybe even obsession of Lith fans towards NT may be irritating to some as well and create antagonism, it may be, but it's zenith of Olympic cycle and for us traditionally it's the MOMENT. We are the only European NT which qualified for all Olympics since 1992. We are ahead Spain, Serbia, France at this point. And our Olympic results are better than Australia's or Argentina's, 2 great Olympic teams. So aside USA, Lithuania stands as the most consistent and probably most achieved Olympic NT. At this point I don't really think we were 4th or 5th FIBA NT in rankings in 90s and 00s, we were de facto higher, IMO, we just tanked some WCs and some EBs at the begging of Olympic circle. Traditionally we didn't pay so much attention to WCs, our stars tend to skip it here and there, but for Olympic tournaments we gather all best and that's basically all what Lithuanian BB is about, that's the biggest stage, the best tournament and we show up (thus to me even the loss of Ulanovas and Brazdeikis are meaningful). We lost a lot of talent since the mid 10's, and only now slowly building up again, bet to be knocked out from Olympics would be big blow for us. So sorry for the smell, but it can't go any other way.

Can you explain in which world Lithuania are accomplished better results in the olympics than Spain and Argentina?

gold and bronze
silver, silver, silver
bronze, bronze, bronze

Straight forward
06-28-2021, 12:47 PM
Can you explain in which world Lithuania are accomplished better results in the olympics than Spain and Argentina?

gold and bronze
silver, silver, silver
bronze, bronze, bronze

I said probably. By metal color off course it's not. However, you should look deeper. We never skipped Olympic tournament and that's achievement alone, none other Euro team managed that, the competition is really big. Second, we reached 5 semifinals from 7 appearances. Besides, have in mind that in 1992 and 2000 we were stopped by USA in the semis. We were clearly better team than France in 2000 and we were very close taking down USA it self, no-one ever was yet as close taking down USA in Olympics as Lithuania was in 2000. That's why I say probably most achieved NT. In this world, you know, LOL.

juli_rc
06-28-2021, 01:16 PM
I said probably. By metal color off course it's not. However, you should look deeper. We never skipped Olympic tournament and that's achievement alone, none other Euro team managed that, the competition is really big. Second, we reached 5 semifinals from 7 appearances. Besides, have in mind that in 1992 and 2000 we were stopped by USA in the semis. We were clearly better team than France in 2000 and we were very close taking down USA it self, no-one ever was yet as close taking down USA in Olympics as Lithuania was in 2000. That's why I say probably most achieved NT. In this world, you know, LOL.

Ok, you point out good achievements in the olympics to be ahead any other country than usa, argentina or spain.

Straight forward
06-28-2021, 01:40 PM
Ok, you point out good achievements in the olympics to be ahead any other country than usa, argentina or spain.

I'm not objecting, but not entirely agree as well. Anyway, our streak will probably end this year. NT has been a mess in terms of management and coaching and we are lead by no-body in terms of coaching and facing much more fluid Slovenia with top 5 player with the ball in his hands.

Toruko
06-28-2021, 01:55 PM
Dont give up before the tournament starts. :D

Straight forward
06-28-2021, 04:07 PM
Dont give up before the tournament starts. :D

I said probably. I treat Slovenia as favorite.

Hepcat
06-29-2021, 01:13 AM
Anyway, our streak will probably end this year. NT has been a mess in terms of management and coaching and we are lead by no-body in terms of coaching and facing much more fluid Slovenia with top 5 player with the ball in his hands.

You other fellows might want to check out the paroxysm of hysterics that's erupted in the Lithuanian forum since Coach Maskoliūnas decided to cut a young fan favourite from the roster late on June 27th:

https://www.interbasket.net/forums/showthread.php?59174-2020-Lithuanian-NT-in-a-chase-of-Olympic-dream/page64

Somehow the idiot element on Lithuanian fan forums overflowed onto this board. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

And I rather thought Tadas Sedekerskis would make the roster myself, but for some unaccountable reason he was having difficulty with the defence drawn up by the coaching staff.

:confused:

Straight forward
06-29-2021, 10:18 AM
Somehow the idiot element on Lithuanian fan forums overflowed onto this board. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.


Before calling some-one an idiot one should look at himself :) You are the one who follows Lithuanian basketball by opinions expressed in this forum and not having a single glance on players for whole year :) I mean...this situation needs a little bit of reflection, IMO :)

Most of fans think it was wrong decision and they care about highly. They seen plenty of Tadas EL games and in most cases they liked what they saw. What's the problem with emotions in this case? It's the part of sports. God forbid dull conformism which some goes with, as "coach always right". No he ain't. No coach is always right. I believe Maskoliunas made a mistake and I see very very strong sense of nepotism regarding NT coaching staff choices of roster, even if no-one can prove such case, but it obviously seems so. Actually around 80% Lithuanian fans think this way. Wherever the truth it's just a bit less likely that it comes from the guy who doesn't even saw Lithuanian basketball players actually playing for the whole season, no offense :) I doubt these matters matter for non Lithuanian posters though, so it's more like should go back to Lithuanian section I guess.

Dreamcatcher
06-29-2021, 10:48 AM
Our basketball culture is barbarian and people don't follow things so if 80% of them think that the decision is wrong then the decision is not bad.

Straight forward
06-29-2021, 10:55 AM
Our basketball culture is barbarian and people don't follow things so if 80% of them think that the decision is wrong then the decision is not bad.

Don't really see the logic here. I guess I'm a bit big bigger believer in democracy as we previously figured out discussing about authoritarian regimes :D

Toruko
06-29-2021, 01:49 PM
OK, having watched the first quarter of Poland vs Angola. It will be decided between LTU and Slo.

Straight forward
06-29-2021, 01:53 PM
OK, having watched the first quarter of Poland vs Angola. It will be decided between LTU and Slo.

Are you sure you don't need to watch Venezuela and Korea to come up with such a deep insight? :D

Straight forward
06-29-2021, 01:59 PM
Balcerowski youngster big looks pretty nicely for Poland. The only thing I really take from this game thus far. Ponitka struggling. Pretty bleak Poland team, they need fantastic game of Slaughter, Ponitka, Balcerovski to challenge Slovenia, Lithuania at least a little bit.

Toruko
06-29-2021, 02:03 PM
Balcerowski youngster big looks pretty nicely for Poland. The only thing I really take from this game thus far. Ponitka struggling. Pretty bleak Poland team, they need fantastic game of Slaughter, Ponitka, Balcerovski to challenge Slovenia, Lithuania at least a little bit.

Terrible transition or team defense by Angola. This Poland team is really weak. Balcerowski is a slow footed big. Nothing serious.

Straight forward
06-29-2021, 05:16 PM
P'n'r defence is quite obvious problem even against Venezuela for Lithuania. Giedraitis stepping up, for him it's very important. I still can't believe our starting PF is Bendzius and his back-up Masiulis. Dimsa is off, not NT material. Too many mistakes choosing the roster.

JGX
06-29-2021, 06:07 PM
Just remembered that Lithuania-Venezuela is a major OQT rivalry! Hopefully the Lithuanians find a way to lose to Korea by the right score on Thursday :D

Hepcat
06-29-2021, 06:08 PM
Before calling some-one an idiot one should look at himself :)

Excuse me but I wasn't the one posting the hysterical outbursts following the coach's roster decision.


You are the one who follows Lithuanian basketball by opinions expressed in this forum and not having a single glance on players for whole year :) I mean...this situation needs a little bit of reflection, IMO

Wherever the truth it's just a bit less likely that it comes from the guy who doesn't even saw Lithuanian basketball players actually playing for the whole season, no offense :)

Okay. Sometimes I'm right; sometimes I'm wrong. And sometimes I'm completely out-to-lunch. I'm not unusual in that regard.

But when things don't unfold the way I predicted, I still react with some decorum. This is supposed to be the dignified board for thoughtful analysis, right or wrong. So don't post wild, obscene outbursts here. Leave those to those other boards you've dismissed in the past. That's all I ask.

:)

greenarcher
06-30-2021, 04:57 PM
How does Venezuela keep in step with superpowers in Basketball despite all their players playing only in their local league?

madmax
06-30-2021, 06:31 PM
How does Venezuela keep in step with superpowers in Basketball despite all their players playing only in their local league?

They scratch, claw and fight for every single possession - nothing fancy or spectacular, just lots of fight and guts on the court