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Levenspiel
12-18-2019, 09:16 AM
The tournament will be held in Victoria between June 23-28, 2020.





Group
Team
Qualification
FIBA World Ranking


A
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Flag_of_Lithuania.svg/23px-Flag_of_Lithuania.svg.png Lithuania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania_men%27s_national_basketball_team)
9th at the 2019 WC
8th


A
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Flag_of_South_Korea.svg/23px-Flag_of_South_Korea.svg.png South Korea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea_national_basketball_team)
Wild Card
30th


A
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Flag_of_Venezuela.svg/23px-Flag_of_Venezuela.svg.png Venezuela (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela_national_basketball_team)
14th at the 2019 WC
20th








B
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/12/Flag_of_Poland.svg/23px-Flag_of_Poland.svg.png Poland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_national_basketball_team)
8th at the 2019 WC
13th


B
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Flag_of_Slovenia.svg/23px-Flag_of_Slovenia.svg.png Slovenia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia_national_basketball_team)
Wild Card
16th


B
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Flag_of_Angola.svg/23px-Flag_of_Angola.svg.png Angola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angola_national_basketball_team)
Wild Card
32nd




The first two teams of each group qualifies, and play each other to reach the final. The winner of the final goes to the Olympics.

G&B
02-13-2020, 08:07 PM
I hope we get to the Olympics where we have a very strong team claiming medals:

PG: Lekavicius; PG: Jokubaitis / PG, SG: Kalnietis / PG: Velicka

PG, SG, SF: Grigonis; SG, SF: Giedraitis; (SG: Milaknis)

SF, PF: Kuzminskas; SF: Ulanovas; SG, SF: Butkevicius / SG, SF: Brazdeikis / SG, SF: Sirvydis

PF, C: Sabonis, PF, C: Motiejūnas; PF: Echodas / PF: Masiulis / SF, PF: Bendzius

C: Valanciunas, C: Gudaitis

Dtown
02-24-2020, 02:32 AM
If Slovenia has their best team, including a health Doncic, I favor them slightly. A final between them and Lithuania could be a good watch.

Italian Pride
02-28-2020, 11:43 AM
If Slovenia has their best team, including a health Doncic, I favor them slightly. A final between them and Lithuania could be a good watch.

Doncic-Nikolic
Prepelic-blazic
Muric-dragic
Jordan morgan-cancar
Omic-vidmar

Is this the best possible roster for them?

Straight forward
02-28-2020, 12:34 PM
I was about to ask the same. Anyone from Slovenians care to give explicit review on the talent level of current G. Dragic, Randolf less Slovenia?

soulis79
02-28-2020, 02:14 PM
Doncic-Nikolic
Prepelic-blazic
Muric-dragic
Jordan morgan-cancar
Omic-vidmar

Is this the best possible roster for them?

It's Omic or Morgan. Both of them can't work. Omic counts as a naturalized player, too. Sisko also might be a useful addition. Slovenia needs at least a sevenfooter in order to match-up with Valanciunas.

P.S. I am not sure if Vidmar is still available to play for national team.

Italian Pride
02-28-2020, 08:57 PM
Omic naturalized player?he took the passport before 18 ys old

Toruko
02-28-2020, 09:24 PM
Omic naturalized player?he took the passport before 18 ys old

You must be younger than 16. In exceptions also older is possible but only in exceptions.

Killer Bob
03-01-2020, 07:40 PM
It's Omic or Morgan. Both of them can't work. Omic counts as a naturalized player, too. Sisko also might be a useful addition. Slovenia needs at least a sevenfooter in order to match-up with Valanciunas.

P.S. I am not sure if Vidmar is still available to play for national team.

Vidmar is available but has knee problems.

Killer Bob
03-11-2020, 10:05 PM
Slovenia negotiating with Itoudis.

Straight forward
11-02-2020, 08:22 PM
Imagine such rosters:

Lithuania:

Kalnietis, Lekavicius, Jokubaitis
Grigonis, R. Giedraitis
Ulanovas, Kuzminskas
Sabonis, Maciulis, Sedekerskis
Valanciunas, Gudaitis

Slovenia

Doncic, A. Nikolić
Prepelic, Z. Dragic, Z.Sisko
V. Cancar, J. Blažič
J. Morgan, E. Muric
G. Vidmar, Ž. Dimec

Who would win?

It's closer than I actually thought. Now Slovenia has best Euro FIBA player in the planet without single doubt and likely best FIBA players of the world overall. Prepelic, Dragic, Morgan and currently in NBA Cancar are all EL level players (Sisko also plays in EL with a little role). On other hand a bit soft and liable defensively and rather naked at frontline.

Lithuania has much more balance, all EL quality generally, increasing guard rotation, but no true game changer or finisher.

It's sad to say, because Lithuania is so much deeper and more fundamental, for one crazy do or die game, Slovenia has an edge. They simply have more guts and sharper teeth to make things from perimeter, to kill the beast with skill and scoring punch. Lithuania's chances would lay in three first quarters, if there's no obvious separation, Slovenia has much more tools in their hands. It's not only Doncic who is a nightmare in FIBA and noone will let him go without plus 20 and some 8 assists, 8 rebounds, but also Prepelic has killers instincts as he showed in 2007EB, plus Zoran Dragic is very much alive still.

If Slovenia comes without Doncic, it's 70/30 Lithuania takes it, if not more.

Mindozas
11-02-2020, 08:54 PM
If there'll be no Doncic, then it might be vital who will coach Slovenia... I'm not following their situation lately on that matter, does they negotiate with someone, but without Doncic they would rely on coaching a lot, especially since Maskoliunas is yet to impress, that could be a key for Slovenian chances

Toruko
11-02-2020, 09:02 PM
Its Slovenia without a doubt. Rosterwise the first 2 spots are more important than the last two. Lithuanias bigs need its guards to create and with the pair Kalnietis/ Grigonis you cant use efficient your big advantage. Sabonis would probably be able to create for himself and in a restricted way for others but JV is totally dependent and needs creation from others.

I dont see any Lithuanian guard to stop either Doncic let alone Dragic who is too fast and versatile for European guards. Bringing Lekavicius against Doncic would be like throwing a chicken in a serpents cave. And I dont want to sound respectless but Kalnietis is also famous for his defense.

So what do we have here. Lithuanian Guards that cant stop their opponents and have trouble to create. Doncic as well as Dragic are everything else than solid defenders but Doncic is huge and cause Kalnietis big problems.

But why calculate with Dragic who declared his retirement? Well, without Dragic despite Doncic the disadvantages of the other 4 spots would be too overwhelming. Not a big problem for Lithuania.

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 05:16 AM
Those Slovenian role players are definitely not to be underestimated. Prepelič, Nikolić, Blažič, Murić, Šiško, Čančar...they are capable players even without Dončić. Lithuania is favorite but that should be interesting game. Importance of the game, home court pressure, expectations...those are all factors to deal with for Lithuania being a clear favourite. Coaching will also be huge in this one.

Katastroika
11-03-2020, 07:39 AM
Lithuania, on the other side, often beats stronger opponents on paper with fanatic defense and beating up key opponent players. If refs decide to let a "hard criteria" it goes in their favour. No need to undervalue Lithuania. Best system in all national teams in Europe. Players look ofter better than in their clubs. With or without Doncic, I really don't see that Slovenia is favourite here. Anyways, would love to see Dragic one last time as their federation tries to get connected with him about this issue. Fucking calendar will make it impossible unfortunately.

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 07:53 AM
Lithuania, on the other side, often beats stronger opponents on paper with fanatic defense and beating up key opponent players. If refs decide to let a "hard criteria" it goes in their favour. No need to undervalue Lithuania. Best system in all national teams in Europe. Players look ofter better than in their clubs. With or without Doncic, I really don't see that Slovenia is favourite here. Anyways, would love to see Dragic one last time as their federation tries to get connected with him about this issue. Fucking calendar will make it impossible unfortunately.

Slovenia is definitely not a favorite here, Lithuania has many advantages over them, but I think they won't be easy to deal with.

Katastroika
11-03-2020, 07:58 AM
Agree. Would be one of the best qualification matches in all 4 tournaments.

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 08:29 AM
Lithuania, on the other side, often beats stronger opponents on paper with fanatic defense and beating up key opponent players. If refs decide to let a "hard criteria" it goes in their favour. No need to undervalue Lithuania. Best system in all national teams in Europe. Players look ofter better than in their clubs. With or without Doncic, I really don't see that Slovenia is favourite here. Anyways, would love to see Dragic one last time as their federation tries to get connected with him about this issue. Fucking calendar will make it impossible unfortunately.

Well, during Kazlauskas' tenure, Liths had a clear system based on their defense. Since his departure, I think they have been struggling to rediscover their identity. Defense hasn't been that good, and offense has been stagnant without proper ball movement. Now, with Jokubaitis and some new emerging offensively oriented players offense should be better, and it will be interesting to see will they make a shift in their identity, because now they have more assets to build better offense than defense.

Katastroika
11-03-2020, 09:15 AM
Generally I still see a lot of structure in their games. I could even see it during our friendly games before WC in Belgrade and Kaunas. We beat them with quite wild run and gun but they (except 3rd quarter in Kaunas where they had to risk) simply played their sets down in both games.

For me Lithuania 2015 is a masterpiece of making every player better than he is in a system, Kuzminskas looked like LeBron, Kauzlaskas as genius coach, as you said surely was something little different than now, but I still see chances quite high that they will be fanatically playing defense. It's simply their nature, also in WC when they didn't advance they played formidable defense both against FRA and AUS and to be honest with you I think they were better team in both games as far as I remember.

Future is high for Lithuania. I love games against them - it's a wealthy decade builded rivalry that is always hard fought. I really would like to play Lietuva in Olympics and have high admiration for their basketball principles. Players are intelligent, well trained and schooled. Many similarities to our philosophy besides all differences.

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 09:49 AM
They will have more depth and more talent than in some previous years, top 5 contenders in any competition probably, assuming Jokubaitis and some other players continue their development. Most important for them, I think, their guard rotation will be much better. Kalnietis/Lekavicius/Jokubaitis + Grigonis/Giedraitis is much better guard ratation than before. They don't have to depend on Kalnietis all that much anymore, they have a nice shooter in Giedraitis, emerging Jokubaitis and much better Lekavicius, with Sabonis/Valanciunas and couple of more good role players like Ulanovas and Kuzminskas, they are in a good position.

Katastroika
11-03-2020, 09:55 AM
They will have more depth and more talent than in some previous years, top 5 contenders in any competition probably, assuming Jokubaitis and some other players continue their development. Most important for them, I think, their guard rotation will be much better. Kalnietis/Lekavicius/Jokubaitis + Grigonis/Giedraitis is much better guard ratation than before. They don't have to depend on Kalnietis all that much anymore, they have a nice shooter in Giedraitis, emerging Jokubaitis and much better Lekavicius, with Sabonis/Valanciunas and couple of more good role players like Ulanovas and Kuzminskas, they are in a good position.

Completely agree. Just to add that one of my favourite European players, Grigonis adds a new dimension to his game this season. He isn't just a shooter, he penetrates, he finishes under contact. He reminds on Bogdan Bogdanovic.

Straight forward
11-03-2020, 10:13 AM
Toruko, I meant Zoran Dragic, not Goran :) If Goran would participate it would be completely other story, but even with Doncic alone, I think Slovenia has an obvious edge closing the games. That's the biggest issue of Lithuania. Grigonis has been stepping up, but we don't have elite game finisher as of yet.


Basically, Lithuania is a true game changer or ISO scorer away from more or less reaching true elite level again because our overall quality is increasing lately and it should stay this way till some mid 20's. Not only Jokubaitis is prevailing, but also big prospects in Tubelis, Marciulionis, Brazdeikis, Murauskas coming soon, not mentioning quality prospects in Sirvydis, Velicka, D.Giedraitis, Sedekerskis, Kulboka. After dreadful decline since 2008, we finally witnessing obvious growth.


Nothing much to add to solid discussion between Katastroika and Serbian_Layup other than that our coaching is huge liability. While Adomaitis did pretty well, he still made some big mistakes in clutch minutes, and so far Maskoliunas has been more than fishy, pretty much sucked, even if his chances were fragmental thus far. Also, I think Lithuania in 2019 WC had pretty clear identity. In comparison with some Kazlauskas' 2015, we were scoring 10pts more per game (84.8). The difference was that we had three offensive guards in Kalnietis, Grigonis, Lekavicius who attacked the basket aggressively in p'n'r situations and al three were in double digits. Now we'll likely have some punch from Jokubaitis and R.Giedraitis as well. So in 20s we should get much more offence while hopefully not losing much at D end. Actually, I think Tubelis has a chance to be one of the most complete and all around defensive bigs Lithuania ever provided and knowing that both JV and Sabonis are liable defensively, his presence in the frontline might be very important, plus Sedekerskis is also very universal defender. I have him as a candidate to guard Doncic. You need a big athletic body with a good length against Doncic, and Sedekerskis' defensive awareness is pretty nice.

As for Slovenian upcoming talent and 20's perspective, very solid article here. 10 best prospects, can't say much if it's spot on. Slovenian guys might say a word here. Egor Sytnikov as potential big time scoring guard next to Doncic?
https://sportando.basketball/en/top-10-prospects-in-slovenian-league/

Serbian_Layup
11-03-2020, 11:39 AM
Toruko, I meant Zoran Dragic, not Goran :) If Goran would participate it would be completely other story, but even with Doncic alone, I think Slovenia has an obvious edge closing the games. That's the biggest issue of Lithuania. Grigonis has been stepping up, but we don't have elite game finisher as of yet.


Basically, Lithuania is a true game changer or ISO scorer away from more or less reaching true elite level again because our overall quality is increasing lately and it should stay this way till some mid 20's. Not only Jokubaitis is prevailing, but also big prospects in Tubelis, Marciulionis, Brazdeikis, Murauskas coming soon, not mentioning quality prospects in Sirvydis, Velicka, D.Giedraitis, Sedekerskis, Kulboka. After dreadful decline since 2008, we finally witnessing obvious growth.


Nothing much to add to solid discussion between Katastroika and Serbian_Layup other than that our coaching is huge liability. While Adomaitis did pretty well, he still made some big mistakes in clutch minutes, and so far Maskoliunas has been more than fishy, pretty much sucked, even if his chances were fragmental thus far. Also, I think Lithuania in 2019 WC had pretty clear identity. In comparison with some Kazlauskas' 2015, we were scoring 10pts more per game (84.8). The difference was that we had three offensive guards in Kalnietis, Grigonis, Lekavicius who attacked the basket aggressively in p'n'r situations and al three were in double digits. Now we'll likely have some punch from Jokubaitis and R.Giedraitis as well. So in 20s we should get much more offence while hopefully not losing much at D end. Actually, I think Tubelis has a chance to be one of the most complete and all around defensive bigs Lithuania ever provided and knowing that both JV and Sabonis are liable defensively, his presence in the frontline might be very important, plus Sedekerskis is also very universal defender. I have him as a candidate to guard Doncic. You need a big athletic body with a good length against Doncic, and Sedekerskis' defensive awareness is pretty nice.

As for Slovenian upcoming talent and 20's perspective, very solid article here. 10 best prospects, can't say much if it's spot on. Slovenian guys might say a word here. Egor Sytnikov as potential big time scoring guard next to Doncic?
https://sportando.basketball/en/top-10-prospects-in-slovenian-league/

I may be wrong, but to me it didn't feel like that scoring was coming from fluid offense. What I liked was Grigonis who showed nice connection with Valanciunas and Sabonis.

Mindozas
11-03-2020, 12:21 PM
I may be wrong, but to me it didn't feel like that scoring was coming from fluid offense. What I liked was Grigonis who showed nice connection with Valanciunas and Sabonis.

It wasn't that fluid, just we had much more options in offense than we had in 2015. Sabonis, Grigonis, Lekavicius - all matured, we didn't have to rely that much on defense anymore like during last Kazlauskas stint when we had simply not much to choose from. Anyway, defensive schemes weren't that efficient anymore either, that goes down to coaching and some of our defensive guys going off their prime

Toruko
11-03-2020, 12:51 PM
Speaking about Slovenias future. I am a big big fan of Gregor Glas. Watched him in the last times U18 EC Tournament. He is playing in Serbias Dynamic Belgrade team. Unfortunately I cant watch the games but I have been checking his stats because also a Turkish prosppect plays there. Absolute deadly shooter! He is tall, has a quick release and can also create his own shot.

Also again a European top guard prospect is Ziga Samar. He doesnt have the speed and the explosiveness for the NBA but he will become a superb guard in Europe.

Some people talk big about Urban Klavzar but I havent watched him yet so I cant say anything.

Straight forward
11-03-2020, 01:15 PM
Speaking about Slovenias future. I am a big big fan of Gregor Glas. Watched him in the last times U18 EC Tournament. He is playing in Serbias Dynamic Belgrade team. Unfortunately I cant watch the games but I have been checking his stats because also a Turkish prosppect plays there. Absolute deadly shooter! He is tall, has a quick release and can also create his own shot.

Also again a European top guard prospect is Ziga Samar. He doesnt have the speed and the explosiveness for the NBA but he will become a superb guard in Europe.

Some people talk big about Urban Klavzar but I havent watched him yet so I cant say anything.

Went through material in youtube, and I like Klavzar the most (Urban, what a name :)). He's very explosive and has a lot of inangibles in his body control and nifty drives. Undersized, but may have a lot of Campazzo in him. Gregor Glass looks versatile, but lacking a little bit more impressive frame, athleticism and toughness for big prospect's pedigree. Samar seems fundamentally sound passer, but has a bit rigid body and not so transcendent flexibility for a great guard prospect. Just cheap impressions from the scratch though.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 09:18 AM
Slovenia is definitely not a favorite here, Lithuania has many advantages over them, but I think they won't be easy to deal with.

I believe Germany with Dirk is the best comparison how dangerous can an average team with a superstar be. Lithuania might be a favourite, but Slovenia with Luka can easily beat them. Slovenia has won Eurobasket with pretty average team, being 30:1 before the tournament. Sure it’s unlikely, but not impossible, that Goran plays, but Luka is much improved player now. And there are some pretty solid role players, who can be very good with proper leader. It’s only 1 game, it might be something like 55:45 for Lithuania because of home court advantage.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 09:29 AM
I don't expect Luka to be playing. Dallas will have a good and deep playoff run this year if nothing unexpected happens.

I mean, I would love and to be honest cheer for you in this tournament, but besides all the NBA calendar won't let it happen. That's the main problem. You'll have him available most probably if you qualify but not for qualifiers. We should know more the next days about that issue anyways. NBA plans to regulate it, most probably, tomorrow. So I expect calendar until mid-November.

If you build a 5 Dragic - Doncic - Blazic - Randolph - Dimec this team would not be favourite to win the tournament in Kaunas but one of favourites to go to the very end of the Olympic tournament.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 09:54 AM
I don't expect Luka to be playing. Dallas will have a good and deep playoff run this year if nothing unexpected happens.

I mean, I would love and to be honest cheer for you in this tournament, but besides all the NBA calendar won't let it happen. That's the main problem. You'll have him available most probably if you qualify but not for qualifiers. We should know more the next days about that issue anyways. NBA plans to regulate it, most probably, tomorrow. So I expect calendar until mid-November.

If you build a 5 Dragic - Doncic - Blazic - Randolph - Dimec this team would not be favourite to win the tournament in Kaunas but one of favourites to go to the very end of the Olympic tournament.

It looks that 72 games season will start 22.12. It depends how far Dallas goes, but knowing how deep will west be this year, Warriors back, and KP returning after injury, Luka finishing the season in time for qualifiers looks very likely. Dragic will try to sign his last good contract this year, meaning he won't go for 1 year deal. That makes his participation much more likely than it would be this year. It's still unlikely that both play, but it's possible. More likely scenario is Luka/Prepelic/Blazic/Cancar/Morgan. Still solid starters. And you don't need to be deep in a short tournament like that.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 10:04 AM
West next year, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, Warriors, Thunder, Jazz, Rockets, Mavericks, Suns, Blazers...anything can happen there. Mavericks can be in the final or not even making playoffs.

Straight forward
11-05-2020, 10:06 AM
Mavs is among top five teams to win it all next season. There's virtually zero chances for them not to make PO as long as Doncic is playing.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 10:09 AM
I also see Dallas very very strong this year. Anyways, it's likely to see this clash in Kaunas and I'm looking forward to it. Nerve-robbing for you guys, but for us neutral ones really one to enjoy. One of the games where it's trully "you are" or "you are not the one" for the leaders of both teams.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 10:16 AM
Mavs is among top five teams to win it all next season. There's virtually zero chances for them not to make PO as long as Doncic is playing.

Are they? In the West favourites are Lakers and Clippers, then you have improving Nuggets and returning Warriors. They should be in playoffs for sure. Next 4 places will be decided among Jazz, Thunder, Rockets, Mavericks, Blazers and Suns. Blood-battle if you ask me. Season will be ended in mid July, so Mavs making playoffs doesn't automatically mean Luka is out of qualifiers. KP's health is a big question mark for the Mavs and without healthy KP Mavs haven't realistic chance to go very deep.

Mindozas
11-05-2020, 10:20 AM
I'm not NBA follower, so I'll ask bravely this noob question - what are the chances for JV's Memphis and Domas' Indiana next season? How the picture is looking now? I guess Memphis is done if West looking that deep, right? or they might be better than previous season?

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 10:22 AM
I also see Dallas very very strong this year. Anyways, it's likely to see this clash in Kaunas and I'm looking forward to it. Nerve-robbing for you guys, but for us neutral ones really one to enjoy. One of the games where it's trully "you are" or "you are not the one" for the leaders of both teams.

yes, in one game having the best player means much more than having deeper team. without Luka chances for Slovenia is near 0.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 10:28 AM
I'm not NBA follower, so I'll ask bravely this noob question - what are the chances for JV's Memphis and Domas' Indiana next season? How the picture is looking now? I guess Memphis is done if West looking that deep, right? or they might be better than previous season?

West will be incredible strong. There are virtually no bad teams, Kings should be better too, Memphis with great young duo and then you have Pelicans with Zion. Then you have Minnesota with first pick, which they will try to trade and get already good player in return and I almost forgot Spurs and Popovich. Just incredible season. It would be great surprise if Memphis makes playoffs. East looks much more open and easier, I guess Indiana should do solid.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 10:50 AM
West will be incredible strong. There are virtually no bad teams, Kings should be better too, Memphis with great young duo and then you have Pelicans with Zion. Then you have Minnesota with first pick, which they will try to trade and get already good player in return and I almost forgot Spurs and Popovich. Just incredible season. It would be great surprise if Memphis makes playoffs. East looks much more open and easier, I guess Indiana should do solid.

I agree. Memphis will be around 8th-9th place next year but more than 1st round is really not likely.
Indiana is a lock for playoffs and probably even making it to East-Semis or further in ideal circumstances.

Mindozas
11-05-2020, 10:58 AM
Thnx for info, guys. So if everything will go by the plan, there are good chances to see at least JV with NT shirt. Having even 1 out of 2 our NBAers would be great boost for our chances. Will have to follow NBA more closely now and awkwardly cheer against Memphis and Indiana :)

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 11:04 AM
Thnx for info, guys. So if everything will go by the plan, there are good chances to see at least JV with NT shirt. Having even 1 out of 2 our NBAers would be great boost for our chances. Will have to follow NBA more closely now and awkwardly cheer against Memphis and Indiana :)

I will cheer for both. ;)

Here we have Vegas odds. Mavs 6/7 in the west, I totally agree. Memphis unlikely to make playoffs and Indiana tied for 8th. It looks to me, we might see everyone in Lithuania, if everything goes by book, which never does.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

West has 11 of first 17 teams with the best odds to win Nba title.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 11:12 AM
I will cheer for both. ;)

Here we have Vegas odds. Mavs 6/7 in the west, I totally agree. Memphis unlikely to make playoffs and Indiana tied for 8th. It looks to me, we might see everyone in Lithuania, if everything goes by book, which never does.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

West has 11 of first 17 teams with the best odds to win Nba title.

Pfff, I have some problems about those standings but I will keep it for myself :)

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 11:26 AM
Pfff, I have some problems about those standings but I will keep it for myself :)

Nets are over-rated, but Nba is star driven league so we shouldn't be to surprised there. Warriors looks very high, but we shouldn't forget they have second overall pick, which are they prepared to trade. Other than that, it looks pretty solid to me. Nuggets are incredibly deep. MPJ and Murray should be even better this year. Mavs have problems with KP. It's to early of course. We should wait draft and begging off the trading season.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 12:05 PM
Nets are over-rated, but Nba is star driven league so we shouldn't be to surprised there. Warriors looks very high, but we shouldn't forget they have second overall pick, which are they prepared to trade. Other than that, it looks pretty solid to me. Nuggets are incredibly deep. MPJ and Murray should be even better this year. Mavs have problems with KP. It's to early of course. We should wait draft and begging off the trading season.

Yeah, I still wait for the trades primarily.

E.g. Denver will go all in next season (and perhaps destroy a lot of things they've built in the last years). If they really take PG they will massively fail.

My dark horse for winning it all next year is still Dallas if they trade for another superstar.

Mindozas
11-05-2020, 12:25 PM
I will cheer for both. ;)

Here we have Vegas odds. Mavs 6/7 in the west, I totally agree. Memphis unlikely to make playoffs and Indiana tied for 8th. It looks to me, we might see everyone in Lithuania, if everything goes by book, which never does.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

West has 11 of first 17 teams with the best odds to win Nba title.

Man, I hope Dallas will go against the odds, it's time for them to get back to finals, been a die hard fan of club since 1978 :cool: :p Go Mavs

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 12:26 PM
Yeah, I still wait for the trades primarily.

E.g. Denver will go all in next season (and perhaps destroy a lot of things they've built in the last years). If they really take PG they will massively fail.

My dark horse for winning it all next year is still Dallas if they trade for another superstar.

Mavs don't have much to offer. Much more likely they will wait for next big free agents season. If you have Luka, you basically need to surround him with shooters and defenders. You don't need someone to take the ball out of his hands.

My big concern about Mavs is KP. Being so big and having problems with knees looks very worrisome.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 12:36 PM
Mavs don't have much to offer. Much more likely they will wait for next big free agents season. My big concern about Mavs is KP. Being so big and having problems with knees looks very worrisome.

Seems so, and even if - I am always worried if good balanced and klicking teams are getting "upgraded" - often they lose a lot of cohesion. For example, if they build a package with Kleber, Finney-Smith, pick and Curry they would have to go all in. They are still at the beginning of a journey but rumours are pretty wild about superstar alert in Texas.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 12:45 PM
Seems so, and even if - I am always worried if good balanced and klicking teams are getting "upgraded" - often they lose a lot of cohesion. For example, if they build a package with Kleber, Finney-Smith, pick and Curry they would have to go all in. They are still at the beginning of a journey but rumours are pretty wild about superstar alert in Texas.

Mavs had the best offense in the history of Nba last year. Problem is D. Kleber and Finney Smith are their best defenders beside Kp. I would take someone like Mikal Bridges. 3&D player, who knows his role. They especially need D. on wings. The best fit would be Kawhi, but it won't happen of course.

Mavs are nervous, because they have Luka playing for peanuts. How many times you have top5 player on rookie contract? That gives you great opportunity to sign one extra superstar.

Katastroika
11-05-2020, 01:01 PM
Mavs had the best offense in the history of Nba last year. Problem is D. Kleber and Finney Smith are their best defenders beside Kp. I would take someone like Mikal Bridges. 3&D player, who knows his role. They especially need D. on wings. The best fit would be Kawhi, but it won't happen of course.

Mavs are nervous, because they have Luka playing for peanuts. How many times you have top5 player on rookie contract? That gives you great opportunity to sign one extra superstar.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/top-25-free-agents-2020-nba-offseason
Pick your favourite superstar and wannabe superstar :)

That's they key point. They will have to trade something if they want someone outside the list that can help and looking at it there are really few names which could really boost Dallas.

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 01:20 PM
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/top-25-free-agents-2020-nba-offseason
Pick your favourite superstar and wannabe superstar :)

That's they key point. They will have to trade something if they want someone outside the list that can help and looking at it there are really few names which could really boost Dallas.

There are some nice shooters from Europe out there. I don't believe Mavs will be very aggressive in this market. They don't look to me only 1 piece away. I hope they will upgrade the team without risking too much. They have already taken a huge risk with KP.

Straight forward
11-05-2020, 02:35 PM
Doncic nearly knocked off the Clippers...with Porzingis struggling with health and stuff. They are the fastest growing team, IMO. And they have top 5 player in the planet in their roster. These odds are ridiculous. Gimme a brake with teams like Rockets, Nuggets, Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston...

The way I see it this:

Lakers - Lebron
Clippers- Leonard
Mavs - Doncic
Warriors - Curry

and if Durant would be equally the same as he was, then NETS. All other teams lacking true winning superstars, period.

Dallas Mavericks +2,500

Luka Doncic has separated himself from the rest of the NBA in quick work, emerging as a Top-5 superstar in the league with his incredible play in the 2019-20 season and more so during his gritty performances inside the bubble, most notably pushing the star-studded Clippers to the brink in the first round. Alone, he makes Dallas a dark horse contender in the West.

The Mavs have some OK talents supporting Doncic (Kristaps Porzingis is great when healthy) but it’s obvious Mark Cuban has to do more to avoid spoiling the prime of this unique talent. The 2020 free agent crop is void of any mega-stars but the 2021 free agency list is insane. Cuban doesn’t like to miss out on an opportunity, and Dallas could get out ahead of those bidding wars by scoring a trade between now and the deadline. A shot on the Mavericks at 25/1 is Shark Tank investment in Cuban going after it.

https://www.covers.com/nba/nba-championship-betting-picks-2021-sleeper

Killer Bob
11-05-2020, 02:55 PM
Doncic nearly knocked off the Clippers...with Porzingis struggling with health and stuff. They are the fastest growing team, IMO. And they have top 5 player in the planet in their roster. These odds are ridiculous. Gimme a brake with teams like Rockets, Nuggets, Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston...

The way I see it this:

Lakers - Lebron
Clippers- Leonard
Mavs - Doncic
Warriors - Curry

and if Durant would be equally the same as he was, then NETS. All other teams lacking true winning superstars, period.

Dallas Mavericks +2,500

Luka Doncic has separated himself from the rest of the NBA in quick work, emerging as a Top-5 superstar in the league with his incredible play in the 2019-20 season and more so during his gritty performances inside the bubble, most notably pushing the star-studded Clippers to the brink in the first round. Alone, he makes Dallas a dark horse contender in the West.

The Mavs have some OK talents supporting Doncic (Kristaps Porzingis is great when healthy) but it’s obvious Mark Cuban has to do more to avoid spoiling the prime of this unique talent. The 2020 free agent crop is void of any mega-stars but the 2021 free agency list is insane. Cuban doesn’t like to miss out on an opportunity, and Dallas could get out ahead of those bidding wars by scoring a trade between now and the deadline. A shot on the Mavericks at 25/1 is Shark Tank investment in Cuban going after it.

https://www.covers.com/nba/nba-championship-betting-picks-2021-sleeper

You have to calculate KP's knee problems. They're without any kind of rim protection without him. There isn't any time table for his return yet. Very unlikely he will return before mid January. And then you can expect a lot of load management for him. Mavs need healthy KP and upgrade on wing to have at least small chance. I'm not very optimistic about KP. He is too big for bad knees. He's perfect fit with Luka, unfortunately...

Straight forward
11-05-2020, 03:32 PM
We'll see. I agree with that without Luka, Slovenia nearly has zero chances. With Doncic, to me it's a fifty/fifty game and I don't think I'm too generous for Slovenia.

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 07:46 AM
Great news! NBPA and League found basic agreement for beginning at 22nd December. Looks like we will, at least if qualified, watch NBA players at Olympics. Details will follow.

No details revealed but season should (!) end in June including play offs - before qualification. So, to wrap it up, we could see in ideal circumstances Luka, Giannis, Nikola and Domantas in qualifiers.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 08:16 AM
I understand that playoffs will be finished in mid July.

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 08:30 AM
Just speculation. There are several options. Complete finish by End of June. Complete finish by end of July. It's depending whether they want to finish the season Mid-May or End-May.

There still exists no calendar. But if season really will be finished by mid May I think they will push for End June finish. We have to wait. The final agreement is expected to be taken until draft night (18th November) - still no final decision on free agency, too btw.

Mindozas
11-06-2020, 08:31 AM
Indeed, The Athletic writes that regular season should end in mid-May, finals no later than July 22. However, ESPN writes smth a bit different "The league believes that a Dec. 22 start that includes Christmas Day games on television and allows for a 72-game schedule that finishes before the Summer Olympics in July". Well, mid-May is also before Olympics, but still strangely written

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 08:37 AM
To be honest with you all - as stupid as it sounds, the qualifiers should be additionally pushed a few weeks behind. If they are start June 29th or 14th July is completely the same. But we are speaking about FIBA, greatest imbecile sports federation of all.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 08:47 AM
Just speculation. There are several options. Complete finish by End of June. Complete finish by end of July. It's depending whether they want to finish the season Mid-May or End-May.

There still exists no calendar. But if season really will be finished by mid May I think they will push for End June finish. We have to wait. The final agreement is expected to be taken until draft night (18th November) - still no final decision on free agency, too btw.

Nba will start 2 months later than normal, playing 10 games less. There won't be All Star break, but it still looks unrealistic they can finish in June, only 2 weeks later than normal season.

I agree Fiba should reschedule qualifiers, but like you said unlikely to happen, they just live in their own world.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 09:09 AM
Looking at time table, this will be brutal season. Regular season will be 1 month shorter, only 10 games less with much shorter off season. 15 games/month without All star break. We will be seeing a lot of load management. Kawhi will play 40 games.

Luka is not exactly known for his body conditioning, he will be destroyed in June. His usage in Mavs is unreal.

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 09:24 AM
That's true. But some teams (Portland comes to my mind) simply don't have enough depth, quality and space to do so. It will be extremely interesting to see how top teams will protect their key players.

I expect brutality from February ongoing. Lockout season 1998 was maybe most competitive NBA basketball ever.

Gap between West and East in quality is frightening as the bottom East teams have absolutely no progress prospect. Cleveland and Atlanta wouldn't even win the Euroleague. West will be a joy to watch this year.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 09:46 AM
I believe Atlanta will be much more competitive this season. They are very young team, they have added Capela, have almost 45 mio cap space and pick #6.

Katastroika
11-06-2020, 09:53 AM
I believe Atlanta will be much more competitive this season. They are very young team, they have added Capela, have almost 45 mio cap space and pick #6.

Maybe they won't be 28th team by quality but 24th but key is that Young-Cappella duo cannot provide playoffs. I said it quite figuratively to symbolize the lower eastern conference half. If necessary, let Atlanta be good.

Killer Bob
11-06-2020, 10:10 AM
Maybe they won't be 28th team by quality but 24th but key is that Young-Cappella duo cannot provide playoffs. I said it quite figuratively to symbolize the lower eastern conference half. If necessary, let Atlanta be good.

I agree with you about eastern conference, but I believe Atlanta is the wrong example. They were in phase of total rebuilding, collecting as many picks possible and having huge cap space. Now they are in phase 2, when winning will be more important. Young/Collins duo looks very promising, now they need to add some D. If they can get some solid players in free agency, they can be outside threat for playoffs.

Straight forward
03-01-2021, 11:42 AM
Doncic says he's surely playing in Kaunas.
https://sports.yahoo.com/luka-doncic-says-ll-definitely-170046055.html

Katastroika
03-01-2021, 11:54 AM
If they convince Gagi to play this will be a hell of a team. And great battle between Lithuania and Slovenia upcoming.

Straight forward
03-01-2021, 01:10 PM
If they convince Gagi to play this will be a hell of a team. And great battle between Lithuania and Slovenia upcoming.

You mean Dragic? Without him they would still have an amazing backcourt. Best Euro FIBA player in Doncic, Prepelic having a good El season (he's pretty much in the same class as Grigonis roughly speaking), Z. Dragic is super effective with 8.5pts in 18min for Baskonia. Blazic with 18.5pts in Eurocup. We'll have more balanced and quality roster overall, but the gap is not all that big. They will have better backcourt, we'll have better frontline and a bit more quality overall. What's the conclusion? IMO, Slovenia is a favourite if they will have the best Euro player with the ball in his hands.

Katastroika
03-01-2021, 01:28 PM
Yes, Dragic of course.

I agree all. But adding Dragic to this team gives it a really different dimension. Would be a hurricane.

Mindozas
03-01-2021, 05:19 PM
Well, that Doncic wants to play that's nothing new, there was always just only one question if he will be free from his Mavs duties.

Didn't check Slovene media lately, but Dragic said numerous times that he is done not only for OQT, but even Olympics if they'll qualify. Too old, too injury prone, time for new generation and etc.

Straight forward
04-15-2021, 06:52 AM
The reason why I treat Doncic available Slovenia as favorite against Lithuania. He would find ways to have ridiculous game and to close it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D00SXDwaYwU

Chuck this out, he already has a bunch of it and his career just started (not mentioning big shots with Real):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdj5llbH5WA

Mindozas
04-15-2021, 09:03 AM
Nothing to take away from Doncic, amazing shot yesterday, but defense was just ridiculously bad, that #24 guy was especially lost all the way defending Porzingis and later Luka

Killer Bob
04-15-2021, 12:16 PM
Luka will be destroyed in June. Schedule is just unbelievably difficult in this shortened season and Mavs are playing every game as playoffs game with very short rotation, because they want to avoid play-in tournament at any cost. Luka is the player with the highest usage in Nba.

Straight forward
04-15-2021, 01:28 PM
Luka will be destroyed in June. Schedule is just unbelievably difficult in this shortened season and Mavs are playing every game as playoffs game with very short rotation, because they want to avoid play-in tournament at any cost. Luka is the player with the highest usage in Nba.

Could happen probably, but he also 22yo. And Domas Sabonis is playing almost a minute longer than Doncic, 35,8min.

Killer Bob
04-15-2021, 01:43 PM
Could happen probably, but he also 22yo. And Domas Sabonis is playing almost a minute longer than Doncic, 35,8min.

Luka is 22 with dad's belly.;) Luka's 36 usage is insane, he's basically the whole Mavs offense. Furthermore it's much more questionable if Indiana makes playoffs than Mavs. Mavs have pretty good chances to finish at least 6th, because they have the easiest schedule remaining. http://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

Mindozas
04-16-2021, 05:54 PM
Jordan Morgan got injured (knee) yesterday vs Virtus and couldn't continue the game. Unics says the injury is serious, but no further details or time of recovery. Looking at that moment, there were no contact, so might be ACL or meniscus. In worst case scenario he might miss qualifiers, which would put Slovenia in even bigger trouble in the paint. I guess Omic could be an option as another naturalized player or bring back veteran Vidmar...

Shawshank
04-16-2021, 07:49 PM
Jordan Morgan got injured (knee) yesterday vs Virtus and couldn't continue the game. Unics says the injury is serious, but no further details or time of recovery. Looking at that moment, there were no contact, so might be ACL or meniscus. In worst case scenario he might miss qualifiers, which would put Slovenia in even bigger trouble in the paint. I guess Omic could be an option as another naturalized player or bring back veteran Vidmar...

Morgan injury would be seriuos blow for Slovenia.Thats dude is tough as it comes and no slow white center can give what Morgans athletism would give.

Let say Slovenia gets a bad news Morgan can play in June,does its even possible to naturalise another american in 2months?

In our country our federation cant finish naturalisation to 100% blood lithuanian kid in 2 years :)

ps. watched the video and yeah something happend seriuosly bad with his knee,such tough dude started screaming in pain and went down in no contact episode like Murray did few days ago.Looks almost as bad as Murray moment.

Straight forward
04-16-2021, 09:15 PM
M
Let say Slovenia gets a bad news Morgan can play in June,does its even possible to naturalise another american in 2months?

In our country our federation cant finish naturalisation to 100% blood lithuanian kid in 2 years :)


I don't flatter our federation usually, but they need Brazdeikis' Lithuanian citizenship first to talk with FIBA.

Morgan didn't even play for Slovenia yet, I wouldn't overemphasize this. It's still about their perimeter, if they will have all the pieces, they will have more deadly weaponry than our frontcourt and it comes down to one name most essentially.

Mindozas
04-17-2021, 05:29 AM
Morgan injury would be seriuos blow for Slovenia.Thats dude is tough as it comes and no slow white center can give what Morgans athletism would give.

Let say Slovenia gets a bad news Morgan can play in June,does its even possible to naturalise another american in 2months?

In our country our federation cant finish naturalisation to 100% blood lithuanian kid in 2 years :)

ps. watched the video and yeah something happend seriuosly bad with his knee,such tough dude started screaming in pain and went down in no contact episode like Murray did few days ago.Looks almost as bad as Murray moment.

Our federation did it all for Brazdeikis to get citizenship, all the struggles are from Brazdeikis side, firstly he couldn't sent all the needed docs, probably priorities were NBA debut, then pandemic happened, he could't travel to get those missing papers and all stuck.


I don't flatter our federation usually, but they need Brazdeikis' Lithuanian citizenship first to talk with FIBA.

Morgan didn't even play for Slovenia yet, I wouldn't overemphasize this. It's still about their perimeter, if they will have all the pieces, they will have more deadly weaponry than our frontcourt and it comes down to one name most essentially.

Morgan played for Slovenia in qualifiers and was their best player with some like 15+8 and close to 20eff not counting fouls drawn. We all know where the strength of Slovenia lies, but not having anyone in the paint is huge problem against Lithuania with Domas and JV or even one of them. It'd be big loss

Shawshank
04-17-2021, 01:53 PM
Morgan in main strong athletic center for uleb finalist/ most likely winner team.

Morgan looked very good in qualification way better than our centers did.He was one of main difrences why Slovenia looked very good in these qualification compared to last one.



Very rarely we see that NT naturalise not USA guard, but big that only shows how much Slovenia need him.I would argue he is in top 3 most important player for them.

They can lose one guard and be same, but I doubt they can lose only real level big and be same team.

Hepcat
05-05-2021, 05:34 PM
Morgan injury would be seriuos blow for Slovenia.Thats dude is tough as it comes and no slow white center can give what Morgans athletism would give.

Let say Slovenia gets a bad news Morgan can play in June,does its even possible to naturalise another american in 2months?

Heaven forbid that the Slovenian team should actually fill the position with a Slovenian.

:rolleyes: