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Steadysoul
06-30-2021, 08:31 PM
How does Venezuela keep in step with superpowers in Basketball despite all their players playing only in their local league?

they have nothing to lose. Might as well go all out.

Hepcat
06-30-2021, 10:08 PM
How does Venezuela keep in step with superpowers in Basketball despite all their players playing only in their local league?

Two more reasons:

1. The core group of players has been together or ten years. They know each other's strengths and weaknesses.

2. Their coaching staff does a great job of designing game plans to take away their opponents' strengths and frustrate them.

:)

Miškinis
07-01-2021, 07:54 AM
Angola looked rather poor during the tournament. It's a pity knowing that not so long time ago they used to be a threat for many teams. What also looks interesting is their coach. He seems to be speaking in Spanish (?) during the time-outs. I heard a bit when he added some english as well. I genuinely wonder, do those players actually understand him?

LuDux
07-01-2021, 09:10 AM
Angola looked rather poor during the tournament. It's a pity knowing that not so long time ago they used to be a threat for many teams. What also looks interesting is their coach. He seems to be speaking in Spanish (?) during the time-outs. I heard a bit when he added some english as well. I genuinely wonder, do those players actually understand him?


Official language of Angola is Portuguese

Miškinis
07-01-2021, 09:21 AM
Official language of Angola is Portuguese

Yup, that could be it. Though, it sounded more like Spanish one. The coach seems to be from Catalonia. Anyway, since I am no expert in here, I must be wrong then.

reamily
07-01-2021, 09:29 AM
I thought the coach was portuguese..

Miškinis
07-01-2021, 10:00 AM
I thought the coach was portuguese..

Nope, he's from Catalonia. He mentions this in the press conference (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0I2_qApkRA). The wikipedia, of course, names him as Spanish.

Straight forward
07-01-2021, 02:03 PM
Slovenia is by far the smoothest offensive team in Kaunas and likely in all qualification ATM. Great chemistry, ball movement, intensity and off course shooting.

63pts in a half :)

Katastroika
07-01-2021, 03:27 PM
Slovenia looks excellent. Joy to watch. So much movement, no selfishness. Aggression on ball. Small lineups that really rock.

But...if there is 1 team that can beat the shit out of them and beat them on 65 points it's Lithuania. This game will be a dessert for all basketball fanatics. And a pitty that one team has to lose.

Toruko
07-01-2021, 04:38 PM
The good old Kalnietis. Walking TO machine is at work.

Toruko
07-01-2021, 05:03 PM
I dont like what I see for LTU. If Grigonis keeps playing like this he cant expect to play many minutes for CSKA.

madmax
07-01-2021, 05:13 PM
I dont like what I see for LTU. If Grigonis keeps playing like this he cant expect to play many minutes for CSKA.

I think it's much more of an issue with the inept coahing staff who have no clue how to put players in the best positions to use their strengths to the fullest, rather than the players' fault...I don't even expect us to beat Poland playing like this and I think it will be a 50/50 nailbiter game imo

LuDux
07-01-2021, 05:19 PM
The good old Kalnietis. Walking TO machine is at work.

Coahing staff is attacking him with psychic x-rays

madmax
07-01-2021, 05:27 PM
Coahing staff is attacking him with psychic x-rays

nah, that's just good old Father Time doing it's work there, combined with Kalnietis' spectacular chest high dribbling skills...:D

Toruko
07-01-2021, 05:35 PM
nah, that's just good old Father Time doing it's work there, combined with Kalnietis' spectacular chest high dribbling skills...:D

:D This and his TO where you think "what the hell are you doing?". There is no pressure and he throws the ball where nobody can be found. The last time I was laughing hard was Eurobasket 2015 semi final against Serbia where he hadnt looked at the ball and lost it. He played well dont get me wrong but this is Kalnietis for me.

madmax
07-01-2021, 05:56 PM
:D This and his TO where you think "what the hell are you doing?". There is no pressure and he throws the ball where nobody can be found. The last time I was laughing hard was Eurobasket 2015 semi final against Serbia where he hadnt looked at the ball and lost it. He played well dont get me wrong but this is Kalnietis for me.

;)
tell me about it...us lith fans had to suffer through this Kalnietis "era" since 2006 or so unfortunately, only because we had no one better to choose from lol

Dreamcatcher
07-01-2021, 06:13 PM
Kalnietis kept us alive as a powerhouse in any basketball competition and without him we wouldn't win medals.

It looks in Slovenia we got the strongest rival from Europe. Never thought it would be better to get Serbia instead.

Straight forward
07-01-2021, 06:19 PM
It looks in Slovenia we got the strongest rival from Europe. Never thought it would be better to get Serbia instead.

This. We are not that bad, but Slovenia simply plays smoothest BB at the moment. Their chemistry is at another level, even when Doncic is out their intensity does not decline, they know each other perfectly, they have agile modern center. I think they currently playing best basketball in qualification. Better than Serbia, Canada, Lithuania. I would love to be wrong, but if that would series, Slovenia would beat us 4:1 or 4:2. They play modern up to date basketball and their very good at it, we are playing solid, quality old school basketball which is inferior in comparison. I treat Slovenia now much bigger favorite than I had them before the tournament, but who knows, in one game everything possible.

madmax
07-01-2021, 06:45 PM
why are you my fellow liths talking about slovenians when we haven't beaten poles yet?:rolleyes: They are actually a much better team than Venezuela and we had heaploads of trouble with that team too...

G&B
07-01-2021, 06:49 PM
I still don’t understand Maskoliunas. Whay dont there is still no game here or it hidden and various experiments are carried out. It’s scary that we’re creating a lot of good chances to throw but can ’t hit, the percentage of the game excluding the 3-second zone is still low. Where did Giedraitis' stable throw go?

Hepcat
07-01-2021, 09:08 PM
They(Slovenia) play modern up to date basketball and their very good at it, we are playing solid, quality old school basketball which is inferior in comparison.

So you're saying that the "modern up to date" basketball where they just allow opponents open lanes to dunk uncontested is superior to the solid, quality old school basketball that was played before the NBA legislated against any semblance of defence?


https://youtu.be/b4UgjpOAwWA

I disagree. I liked the way fellows such as Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain and the "Bad Boy" Pistons played the game. "If you're going to try to show us up in the paint, you better count the number of uncracked ribs you still have when you come down from the basket." I prefer a game where teams actually try to prevent the opposition from scoring instead of the high scoring circus into which the NBA has turned the game. Yes, I know the NBA sells the sizzle not the steak, but I prefer there to be some meat in a game.

LuDux
07-02-2021, 01:18 AM
So you're saying that the "modern up to date" basketball where they just allow opponents open lanes to dunk uncontested is superior to the solid, quality old school basketball that was played before the NBA legislated against any semblance of defence?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UgjpOAwWA

I disagree. I liked the way fellows such as Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain and the "Bad Boy" Pistons played the game. "If you're going to try to show us up in the paint, you better count the number of uncracked ribs you still have when you come down from the basket.".

Luxury!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zONvMKkIpwA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ZDB9h7BLY

Hepcat
07-02-2021, 02:20 AM
Yeah the guy who posts these videos is a great nineties fan:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vFK81Kcx7k

But the players were already launching themselves backward as if shot from a cannon after any kind of "contact" already in the nineties. You'd think they were soccer players or something.

:rolleyes:

Arsonist
07-02-2021, 02:27 AM
How does Venezuela keep in step with superpowers in Basketball despite all their players playing only in their local league?

greenarcher that question is very good, in Venezuela there is a great culture around basketball but the most popular sport is baseball, we have had players in the NBA, but more than everything is based on the talent we have in the country, because as you know the crisis in the country and the bad structures in terms of leadership have delayed the development of basketball and despite all these obstacles, we have players committed to the national shirt that give everything to reach the best levels in this sport.

If we had a more solid and serious structure, Venezuela could play and compete much better than it already does, some efforts are being made but I believe that much more can be done to take basketball in my country to higher levels.

Hepcat
07-02-2021, 03:40 AM
Kalnietis kept us alive as a powerhouse in any basketball competition and without him we wouldn't win medals.

I agree.

:)

Killer Bob
07-02-2021, 07:58 AM
So you're saying that the "modern up to date" basketball where they just allow opponents open lanes to dunk uncontested is superior to the solid, quality old school basketball that was played before the NBA legislated against any semblance of defence?


https://youtu.be/b4UgjpOAwWA

I disagree. I liked the way fellows such as Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain and the "Bad Boy" Pistons played the game. "If you're going to try to show us up in the paint, you better count the number of uncracked ribs you still have when you come down from the basket." I prefer a game where teams actually try to prevent the opposition from scoring instead of the high scoring circus into which the NBA has turned the game. Yes, I know the NBA sells the sizzle not the steak, but I prefer there to be some meat in a game.

People are underestimating, how much better offensive players are players nowadays. There's no D for players shooting pull-ups from 9 meters. Then you have great spacing with all 5 players capable for shooting for 3. There was 0 centers capable that in the past. There's no D in paint, because there aren't anyone camping inside anymore. Stars playing Isos are insane. It's like you would have 30 MJ in the league. Sure D was more aggressive back then, but was anyone shooting from logo pull-ups? You basically have to defend Curry, Dame... almost from the half court. Half of old school C was totally incapable to defend modern pick&roll. Defending modern Nba players is very difficult no matter what kind of D you allow, because players are just too good.

Joško Poljak Fan
07-02-2021, 10:07 AM
This. We are not that bad, but Slovenia simply plays smoothest BB at the moment. Their chemistry is at another level, even when Doncic is out their intensity does not decline, they know each other perfectly, they have agile modern center. I think they currently playing best basketball in qualification. Better than Serbia, Canada, Lithuania. I would love to be wrong, but if that would series, Slovenia would beat us 4:1 or 4:2. They play modern up to date basketball and their very good at it, we are playing solid, quality old school basketball which is inferior in comparison. I treat Slovenia now much bigger favorite than I had them before the tournament, but who knows, in one game everything possible.
What do you mean exactly by Lithuania playing "old school" basketball?
More post game, more structured set plays etc?

Straight forward
07-02-2021, 11:47 AM
What do you mean exactly by Lithuania playing "old school" basketball?
More post game, more structured set plays etc?


Yeah, but not only this. Lithuania in 2 games made 14 threes (with pretty crappy %), Slovenia in 2 games made 36 threes (with great %). We base out game through bigs, Slovenia through guards. Our pace is slow in most cases, Slovenia's is wild in a good way. Our spacing and ball movement rather limited, Slovenia's is perfect (at least in three games we seen this summer) and even fancy. Our perimeter on ball defence is weak (as well as out traditional bigs are not suited to guard contemporary offense), while Slovenia's perimeter defence is pretty pesky and intense (to me the surprise is your deep bench players who come from the bench with an attitude of Petrick Peverly), you have mobile center who is pretty good at p'n'r defence. You have much more creation from perimeter. Off course no-one in Slovenia's roster is capable to go ISO against JV and Sabonis, but that's the only advantage we have pretty much. That's very much old school vs new school to me.

Off course, maybe Lithuania will find more balance in upcoming 2 games and we will play faster, it can happen, but seeing Slovenia's chemistry, ball movement, perfect p'n'r duo in Doncic and Tobey, pace and incredible confidence in shooting I treat Slovenia is clear favorite to grab the ticket. It's too bad, cause it's obvious both teams deserve to be in Olympics.

Joško Poljak Fan
07-02-2021, 12:51 PM
Thanks for the input! :) Sadly I don't have the luxury to watch numerous games as I used to and appreciate such observations.

Slovenia did play great in the last two games and the Sekulič's job is visible since he took over. However, I think this pace isn't neccesarily set in stone. Surely Slovenia will do it's best to play that, but it can be controled, most of all by rebounding. A tacticaly sound team can imo force Slovenia under 80 points. So I don't believe the outcome is set in stone. I perfectly understand what you mean though, It would be hard to cope with getting eliminated from the olympics when you know your team deserves it, now it's (probably, there are still semis to be played) either you guys or us.

In my opinion, no matter the publicity, FIBA should do the same as UEFA did. If olympic comitee insists on having 12 national teams only on the olympic tournament, let them lose their most globaly watched part of the olympics and focus on the world championship. Nothing will improve without any cojones involved.

Miškinis
07-02-2021, 03:41 PM
Me on the other hand look at the situation quite optimistically. Our defence is improving. I liked the way we contained the running team like South Korea. I was happy with the defense against Venezuela as well. We try to use our strength and, naturally, limit the one our opponents excel at. Modern or not, we have a disciplined game plan that helps us to be consistent. With the quality we have under the rim, we have the luxury to be predictable. While we do not force the game via 3s, obviously, getting more contribution from the behind the arc would be a nice boost. Nonetheless, it's all in our hands. The very fact that Slovenia's transition offense was running smoothly does not mean that they can go this way against every team. The old saying "one plays the way their opponent allows", I believe, fits in here rather well.

neo
07-02-2021, 05:51 PM
i subscribed to FIBA 2021 OQT channel precisely to watch the finals between slovenia and lithuania.

Hepcat
07-03-2021, 04:23 AM
why are you my fellow liths talking about slovenians when we haven't beaten poles yet?:rolleyes: They are actually a much better team than Venezuela and we had heaploads of trouble with that team too....

Me I haven't written off Venezuela yet either. I still remember how Venezuela was destroyed by Team Canada in the preliminary round robin of the 2015 Americas Cup but then took away Canada's game entirely when it really mattered in the playoffs. Just because Venezuela's head politicos left their economy in shambles doesn't mean they don't still have some shrewd basketball minds.

;)

neo
07-03-2021, 09:11 AM
Me I haven't written off Venezuela yet either. I still remember how Venezuela was destroyed by Team Canada in the preliminary round robin of the 2015 Americas Cup but then took away Canada's game entirely when it really mattered in the playoffs. Just because Venezuela's head politicos left their economy in shambles doesn't mean they don't still have some shrewd basketball minds.

;)

it will be disappointment if slovenia drops out of d semis. but yes, anything can happen. VEN have d physical and athletic players that can bother luka and other guards.

zalias
07-03-2021, 02:14 PM
slovenia got no coach or defense, once their shooting fluke is over they won't be a big threat.

but if the refs keep doing what they're doing then idk

Straight forward
07-03-2021, 02:26 PM
Venezuela surprising giving some fight. Luka is forced to sweat That's good news for us.

Arsonist
07-03-2021, 02:28 PM
Venezuela did a great job in the first half, even though Slovenia has more stature, the Venezuelan team showed their defensive grit and limited a team that has a great percentage from the perimeter, this is what I like about Venezuela's DNA that always looks for the resources to be in the game.

Straight forward
07-03-2021, 04:54 PM
JV is like lost puppy at defensive end. It's unjustifiable at this level.

I see the same scenario as in 2016 4finals against Australia. Kalnietis and JV p'n'r defence is non existant. Both sucks badly :)

Toruko
07-03-2021, 05:05 PM
What kind of superstar is Sabonis when he cant even make open mid ranger?

Toruko
07-03-2021, 05:06 PM
You can clearly see that some LTU players are afraid of taking responsibility

Straight forward
07-03-2021, 05:11 PM
I'm most pissed about D. Grigonis sleeping...Our coach let go Sedekerskis because he doesn't understand defensive systems. I want to start to see at least some glimpses of those systems. Poland is bombing as thus far.

Shawshank
07-03-2021, 05:18 PM
Put Grigonis ass on the bench just horrible on both ends of the floor . Dont score and do not defend nobody just watching how his men takes rebound and scores multiple times.

Mantas with Jokubaitis must play together in 2half .Our 2 best guards that atleast is attacking offensively .

Enough nonsense playing 2 centers. Is not working.

Domas must be alot more agressive when Jonas on the bench. He does all does dirty job well but national need scoring from our nba player.

Toruko
07-03-2021, 05:34 PM
I love JVs passion for the NT. He is probably the player that loves his national team the most. Great guy.

Toruko
07-03-2021, 05:42 PM
Rokas, boi, just shoot it! What a mistake!

Straight forward
07-03-2021, 05:44 PM
Finally Domas stepped up a little bit and despite that mistake Jokubaitis is great. Lithuania stepped up a little bit defensively, Butkevicius set the tone basically.

Shawshank
07-03-2021, 06:03 PM
Arnas fantastic defence against euroleague scorer Ponitka.

Second tournament Butkevicius is simply better than Kuzminskas and Giedraitis. Perfect role player.

Domas and Arnas together hands down 2 best defenders that entire ltu defence holds on them.

neo
07-03-2021, 06:06 PM
this will be an epic finals.

Darknemo2000
07-03-2021, 06:18 PM
I would say slovenia looked better as a team than lithuania so I think they might win. Key is what if lithuania starts shooting 3's though? They had been attrocious from 3 so far but they do have some good snipers there and if they finally decide to hit their shots lithuania could take this game.

zalias
07-03-2021, 06:34 PM
I would say slovenia looked better as a team than lithuania so I think they might win. Key is what if lithuania starts shooting 3's though? They had been attrocious from 3 so far but they do have some good snipers there and if they finally decide to hit their shots lithuania could take this game.

lithuania is improving every game tho. they looked pretty good in the second half.

Shawshank
07-03-2021, 06:40 PM
Slovenia how they played no doubt looking like better team and should be consider as favourites in the final.

Logic says guards gonna beat bigs in 2021 how game is played.

But as fan i believe our best players can beat anybody in our house with 12 thousand crazy fans support.

LTU NT needs to slow down the tempo againts Slovenia.

Game plan should be like playing americans: when one of ltu player shoots do not try to go for rebound,but atleast 2 players (not centers) should be sprinting home to defence and force Slovenia score all their points in half court.

Its ridiculous how many easy baskets Slovenians got in fast break in first 3 games.

Thats must be nr 1 thing what our NT must take away from them and make it half court game.

In such style our bigs will put huge pressure on boards and we will see how well their roles players gonna make all those long shots in 12 thousand crazy fan pressure atmosphere.

madmax
07-03-2021, 06:56 PM
Oh well, it wasn't pretty at all, but we got the job done I guess...:rolleyes:
I knew poles would match our physicality easily, as they themselves have plenty of tough fellas playing physical ball(even JV got pissed off with their cheap shots and arm wrestling match lol). The game against slovenians will be totally different, as they play totally different type of ball not seen yet by our NT. They are obvious favorites with Luka leading the troops, but you know how they say - the ball is round and the game still has to be played...

Dtown
07-03-2021, 07:08 PM
Slovenia vs. Lithuania is a amazing gift to have for neutrals, but probably insanely stressful for fans of the teams.

G&B
07-03-2021, 07:12 PM
Slovenia plays a nice offensive but no defensive game. Lithuania, on the other hand, is very difficult only episodically beautiful game of defense. Favorite as bookmakers show is Lithuania, but Slovenia with Dončičius can shoot. If it were a series I think Lithuania would win 4-1 or 4 -2.

Straight forward
07-03-2021, 07:18 PM
Only satisfactory win against Poland. Even if we somehow would grab the ticket, I don't believe we can win anything while build around JV. He can score, but for him to score means to freeze everyone else around on the lineup and to kill any rhythm (no wonder rhythm players as Kuzminskas, Giedraitis, even Grigonis to some extent, have zero chances to shine around him), and he just can't play D. Simply horrible tonight defensively. I think it's complete illusion that with such basketball we can actually win medals. I'm sticking with my prediction that we are not winning anything while build around JV. We play slow one-dimentional offense and no defence at all. JV's era since the middle of 10's has been contra-productive for Lithuanian BB. Incredible personality, super nice dude, dedicated patriot, fighter - that's beautiful side of JV that no-one can question. But our permanent attempt to play through him has been the case of regress. I argue that the center position of Sabonis/Gudaitis would be superior to JV/Sabonis. I witness the same every summer and tonight A- Poland team was too much for JV to survive defensively. I completely lost belief in this idea. It's like expecting the miracle that we can win big things with super limited offense and non-existing defence.

Dtown
07-04-2021, 04:46 PM
Love seeing the big crowd, feels like the big game it should be.

neo
07-04-2021, 04:47 PM
early 10-pt lead by slovenia.

d early foul trouble of sabonis is a factor for now.

Toruko
07-04-2021, 04:47 PM
How Doncic provokes the crowd hahahahahahhaa love it :D

Italian Pride
07-04-2021, 04:48 PM
a streaming please?

Straight forward
07-04-2021, 04:59 PM
Masiulis understands defensive schemes well. 2 times Prepelic ate him alive in ISO situations...

Hepcat
07-04-2021, 05:19 PM
52-52 at the half. Neither team is stopping the other from scoring.

:eek:

neo
07-04-2021, 05:19 PM
52-all at halftime

Shawshank
07-04-2021, 05:20 PM
Now thats real final.

I dont how it gonna end but i like where my teams players hearts are.

On start on 3 querter im attacking Tobey with Valanciunas until refs gives american 4th faul.

Hepcat
07-04-2021, 05:21 PM
a streaming please?

You had to pay if you want more/better than this:

http://www.fiba.basketball/oqt/lithuania/2020/game/0407/Lithuania-Slovenia#tab=overview

:(

Hepcat
07-04-2021, 05:21 PM
a streaming please?

You had to pay to subscribe to more/better than this:

http://www.fiba.basketball/oqt/lithuania/2020/game/0407/Lithuania-Slovenia#tab=overview

:(

Hepcat
07-04-2021, 05:30 PM
I see you're still engaged in your old habit of running down players in the hopes of making your own favourites look better in comparison. For the record Gytis Masiulis was a +5 with a PER of 1 in 2:51 of playing time in the first half. There were several worse players out there but of course you choose to target Masiulis because you blame him for your favourite not making the team.

Keep it up and I'll call you on this type of crap every time now. I've had quite enough.

:mad:

Hepcat
07-04-2021, 05:57 PM
So Slovenia went to three pointers on offense and fouling on defence in the 3rd quarter and it worked like a charm.

:(

Hepcat
07-04-2021, 06:18 PM
What kind of adjustments did Slovenia make on defence in the second half to throw sand in the gears of Lithuania's offence?

:confused:

Dtown
07-04-2021, 06:18 PM
Congrats to Slovenia to make their first Olympic games as an independent nation!

Bit of justice as FIBA's bullshit scheduling cost them a chance at the World Cup, the defending European champions deserve a World Tournament.

Commiserations to Lithuania, the streak of Olympics you managed despite your size is legendary. No shame in it coming to an end.

neo
07-04-2021, 06:21 PM
luka with a triple-double and the mvp award.

congrats to slovenia.

Shawshank
07-04-2021, 06:30 PM
Congrats to Slovenia and Luka.

Im not sure i have ever seen better white player than Luka Doncic thats greatness .

Men dominates game as some alien in every aspect its possible to dominate game of basketball.

LTU lost to a better team. Good luck Slovenia in Olympics .

Toruko
07-04-2021, 06:32 PM
Croatia, Turkey, LTU showed one thing clearly. No matter how good your wings or bigs are if you dont have a proper play maker you wont survive.

Straight forward
07-04-2021, 06:39 PM
Congrats to Slovenia. I believe the best team in qualification (assuming Serbia missing key figures).

Hepcat
07-04-2021, 06:43 PM
LTU lost to a better team.

Truth. Not surprising but Lithuania just couldn't contain Luka Dončić.


Congrats to Slovenia and Luka.

Im not sure i have ever seen better white player than Luka Doncic thats greatness .

Men dominates game as some alien in every aspect its possible to dominate game of basketball.

How does a fellow playing PG who looks like a 37 year old couch potato lead all players in rebounds (as well as everything else) with eleven in 33:42 of playing time? Lithuania's twin towers of Jonas Valančiūnas and Domantas Sabonis only had six each in 25:41 and 29:33 of playing time respectively.

https://images.eurohoops.net/2021/06/165e77f3-luka-doncic-slovenia-625x375.jpg

It's incredible!

:eek:

madmax
07-04-2021, 08:27 PM
Croatia, Turkey, LTU showed one thing clearly. No matter how good your wings or bigs are if you dont have a proper play maker you wont survive.

Pretty much this...elite PG makes massive difference on every level of basketball, and we as a basketball crazed nation failed to develop one ever since Jasikevicius hung up his sneakers for good...and finally we paid a price for this flaw in our basketball system, the biggest price of them all by missing the main Olympic tournament. But congrats to Slovenia though - they have a true basketball magician leading them to a glory and there is no ceiling for a team when they have a player like that

Arsonist
07-04-2021, 10:24 PM
The 4 participating countries and organizers of the Olympic qualifying tournament were eliminated, with very good teams but they lacked the character to win the final game in the case of Lithuania and Serbia, because Canada and Croatia were eliminated much earlier, these tournaments are not easy require preparation and many elements that are important details in the game for the best performance.

Another case is that of Brazil who were playing great basketball, they could not beat Germany in the final game, these tournaments must be watched carefully and learn from both victories and defeats to know what we are missing and what resources should be added in each of the combined teams of each country for the restructuring of national teams.

It is a great failure for teams with tradition of attending high competitions to have been left out as Serbia, Croatia, Lithuania, even Brazil, Canada is another story, something they will have to analyze, but they will know that as I mentioned that this level is not easy and you must assemble the best team you can along with other factors that are fundamental.

In the case of Venezuela we have a lot to improve, but it is true what one of my friends said in my publications and that is that in a few years we have risen to a level where previously we suffered a stagnation since the heroes of Portland until we won the FIBA Americas in Mexico achieving feats that are legacy in the history of our basketball.

It is time to make a reform to build based on what we have a much more serious organization, where the structure at the level of basketball is the most appropriate for the development of the discipline at the national level, we have seen some efforts but it is not enough to achieve more goals from the lower categories, because we know that in Venezuela there is talent for basketball, but we must be more decisive in building a better horizon for Creole basketball with a view to international competitions at the highest level.

ChuckDiesel2
07-05-2021, 04:28 AM
The things Doncic did to the Lithuanians today hasn't been seen since the days of Stalin. First he "disappears" Kristap's soul, now this.I'll pray for an Estonian or any Balt brave enough to step on court with Comrade Luka.

Killer Bob
07-05-2021, 05:34 AM
The things Doncic did to the Lithuanians today hasn't been seen since the days of Stalin. First he "disappears" Kristap's soul, now this. If I'll pray for the Estonian or any Balt brave enough to step on court with Comrade Luka.

Funny thing about Kristap is, that very average Tobey looks great beside Luka with playing only few games together.

This qualifications just showed how easy is to build a team around Luka. He's basically the whole system. That means you don't need long preparation. You find bunch of shooters and solid defenders and plug Luka in. You really must be a moron to do what Mavs did in last seasons. Trading Seth, bringing non shooters like Josh and Delon, drafting rookies, who cannot shoot...KP was a calculated gamble, so I won't count that against them. But they really deserve to be gone.

Slovenia was underrated before Kaunas. I don't believe even Lithuania's coaching staff has understood what they will have to face. It was too late to do anything when tournament started. Honestly I don't even know what they could done. There's basically no D against Luka, if his teammates are having solid night.

ChuckDiesel2
07-05-2021, 07:41 AM
Help me understand why Igor Kokoskov didn't attach himself to Luka's hip and remain permanent Slovenia head coach after the 2017 Eurobasket title. Who's decision was it? I mean, home is home but most of the guys he thought were gonna be home (including the NBA MVP) weren't home. Other than patriotism, is there something about the Serbia job I'm missing that makes it objectively more appealing? Resources, structure, money? Even if those all blow Slovenia all out of the water, Igor saw up close what Doncic was already capable of, how could he leave that? He definitely seemed miserable on on a night Luka was joyous.

Miškinis
07-05-2021, 12:58 PM
That's a tough lost. It all boiled down to a few first minutes of the 4th quarter. The inability to read the offensive plays of Slovenia ruined it all. I thought it should be very clear that the pick and pop situations are heavily used by Slovenians. They are deadly and well used. Unfortunately... Otherwise we played rather well. Perhaps what was needed is for Maskoliūnas to have the needed guts and play less Valančiūnas (you got it right, the defense).

I do not agree with the claims that Lithuania is not having good PGs, though. On the contrary, we have them and they are solid. Not to mention a quite promissing list that was left at home: Kariniauskas, Velička, Marčiulionis, Rubštavičius. The bigger problem was that our opponents had a 200 cm tall and 100+ Kg weighting point guard with a great IQ. With a body like this, it is was evident that he can make some room around himself, when needed. Otherwise share the ball. Interesting enough I think Kariniauskas could be an interesting option to play against him. Butkevičius did not have the needed body (otherwise a very good defender). And yes, Sedekerskis... Maybe next time, I guess.

Either way, good luck for the Slovenian team. They are good and fully deserved the olympic dream.

Straight forward
07-05-2021, 01:18 PM
Interesting enough I think Kariniauskas could be an interesting option to play against him. Butkevičius did not have the needed body (otherwise a very good defender).

How Kariniauskas has better body than Butkevicius? :) Yes, 2cm taller, but Butkevicius is all muscular, tough, athletic and 1kg bigger. Kariniauskas is a bad defender, he's all about offense.

Miškinis
07-05-2021, 01:38 PM
Well, judging by the Vikipedia, Kariniauskas is both taller and weights more. Nonetheless, it is important to emphasize that I do not expect that he could stop Luka. It should be obvious to everyone by now, I believe. I am talking about him being more inconvenient. In this particular case with the bigger body you could potentially limit the visibility field and stand ones ground. Also, I consider Kariniauskas to have a better basketball IQ than Arnas. Thus, it could also help to better read the plays and act accordingly.

Straight forward
07-05-2021, 01:46 PM
Well, judging by the Vikipedia, Kariniauskas is both taller and weights more. Nonetheless, it is important to emphasize that I do not expect that he could stop Luka. It should be obvious to everyone by now, I believe. I am talkin about him being more inconvenient. In this particular case with the bigger body you could potentially limit the visibility field and stand ones ground. Also, I consider Kariniauskas to have a better basketball IQ than Arnas. Thus, it could also help to better read the plays and act accordingly.

Kariniauskas is way more softer than Butkevicius and he doesn't have defensive motor. It would be a horrible choice, worse than Dimsa who at least has some sturdiness and agility compared to Kariniauskas, but even Dimsa is more of an offensive player than defensive. Kariniauskas would be one of the most comfortable opponents for Doncic, he would go through him without any trouble. Anyway, not worth extended discussion. I think I FIBA Doncic has more chances to get trapped (smaller court and help D comes easier), not allowing to him to go inside and Sedekerskis, Sabonis were our 2 best options, but our coach cut one and barely used the other. Case closed.

Miškinis
07-05-2021, 01:52 PM
We have different takes regarding him, then... One thing we agree on, though, is that Slovenia looks promising.

Joško Poljak Fan
07-05-2021, 02:35 PM
Funny thing about Kristap is, that very average Tobey looks great beside Luka with playing only few games together.

This qualifications just showed how easy is to build a team around Luka. He's basically the whole system. That means you don't need long preparation. You find bunch of shooters and solid defenders and plug Luka in. You really must be a moron to do what Mavs did in last seasons. Trading Seth, bringing non shooters like Josh and Delon, drafting rookies, who cannot shoot...KP was a calculated gamble, so I won't count that against them. But they really deserve to be gone.

Slovenia was underrated before Kaunas. I don't believe even Lithuania's coaching staff has understood what they will have to face. It was too late to do anything when tournament started. Honestly I don't even know what they could done. There's basically no D against Luka, if his teammates are having solid night.
I agree about Luka. The team also developed some chemistry in the recent years, which makes the job even easier for him than ussual.

I wouldn't say that Slovenia is the one that is underated. In my opinion it is the underestimation of influence that the guards have on todays game and the fact that europe is lagging behind developing guards, most notably PGs. Add that to a tournament style play where there isn't enough time to adjust to the opponents to the upmost details and that's it.

For example, when I think of top10 european PG's, without the NBAers... I might not be the best person to evaluate this, since I admit I am not watching even remotely as much european basketball as I used to, but.... Calathes, Micic, De Colo, Teodosic... when it becomes tough (and a matter of probably personal preferences probably) is from top10 onwards. Is Albicy a top10 european PG? Is Ivanovič (Montenegro) among top15? Are Rupnik and Nikolič in top30 ? that last question sounds as a complete blasphemy (!!!!) but even if they are not and they are in the top40, that is kind of an indication that the draught on PG position is hurting some NT's really bad.
Probably best example would be Italian Alessandro Pajola, while being a role player in Virtus Bologna, no matter how generaly unknown he is, he might as well be a starting PG on numerous national teams that played these qualifications. He will get recognition with some time and proove my point, no matter how blasphemous it might sound right now.

To a bit lesser extent, same logic applies to SG to a bit lesser extent as the talent pool is a bit wider there.

To sum it up, surely Slovenia's roster overall doesn't look too impressive and is pretty easy to underestimate, but than again, leaving Dončič completely aside, not many NT's can put up a hypothetical backcourt such as Šiško, (Rupnik, Nikolič), Prepelič, Zoran Dragič, Blažič? And without childlish assumptions 1 NBA guard will completely make up for the remaining of below average backcourt, it's a relatively easy question imo; Spain, France, Serbia, Lithuania surely can, It's discussable with maybee 2 more countries, as for the others it is a no. But the 4 countries I mentioned are the standard favourites for the titles. And will remain as such, due to that fact, no matter the failure now and than.

And since guards, let alone guards with some variety in their ways, win the tournaments such as these, it's in my opinion the whole guards play that is underestimated, not Slovenia in particular.


Help me understand why Igor Kokoskov didn't attach himself to Luka's hip and remain permanent Slovenia head coach after the 2017 Eurobasket title. Who's decision was it? I mean, home is home but most of the guys he thought were gonna be home (including the NBA MVP) weren't home. Other than patriotism, is there something about the Serbia job I'm missing that makes it objectively more appealing? Resources, structure, money? Even if those all blow Slovenia all out of the water, Igor saw up close what Doncic was already capable of, how could he leave that? He definitely seemed miserable on on a night Luka was joyous.
Both Slovenia and (as far as I understood) Kokoškov wanted to continue, however when Fiba's competitions appeared Kokoškov wasn't able to show up (NBA, euroleague ignoring Fiba's national team windows/schedule) and therefor they agreed not to continue with him.


Thanks for the congrats, Lithuanians! I am sorry it had to be you guys!

Killer Bob
07-05-2021, 04:32 PM
The problem with players like Nikolic, Rupnik... is that they cannot run offense alone, they're useful only as backup Pgs. Prepelic and Blazic are more useful of course, but again nowhere near enough to beat better teams. Luka is just totally unique player, generating everything and he even played some decent D on Sabonis.

I'm not sure that we have ever seen someone dominating like that in Europe. Drazen might be better scorer but nowhere near as good playmaker, Sabonis was unstoppable too, but he still needed someone to bring him the ball. It's not coincidence that 30 points triple doubles are not existing in Fiba competition.

ChuckDiesel2
07-05-2021, 06:43 PM
I don’t know much about the coach of Lithuania but I was embarrassed by his body language from start to finish. Early in every game he looked panicked and exasperated. His theatrics after every small mistake sure didn’t help ease pressure from his team playing at home against one of the top five players in the world. Hope for the sake of Lithuanian basketball he’s gone soon.

Straight forward
07-05-2021, 07:57 PM
I don’t know much about the coach of Lithuania but I was embarrassed by his body language from start to finish. Early in every game he looked panicked and exasperated. His theatrics after every small mistake sure didn’t help ease pressure from his team playing at home against one of the top five players in the world. Hope for the sake of Lithuanian basketball he’s gone soon.

He retired already.

ChuckDiesel2
07-05-2021, 11:50 PM
Glad to hear it. Hope they name each of the Lavrinovic twins co-head coach.

Hepcat
07-06-2021, 02:49 AM
There were already a lot of questions/reservations concerning whether he was fit to be the head coach after Lithuania's underwhelming results in the Eurocup Qualifying Tournament.

:(

Liha
07-06-2021, 04:01 AM
Funny thing about Kristap is, that very average Tobey looks great beside Luka with playing only few games together.

This qualifications just showed how easy is to build a team around Luka. He's basically the whole system. That means you don't need long preparation. You find bunch of shooters and solid defenders and plug Luka in. You really must be a moron to do what Mavs did in last seasons. Trading Seth, bringing non shooters like Josh and Delon, drafting rookies, who cannot shoot...KP was a calculated gamble, so I won't count that against them. But they really deserve to be gone.

Slovenia was underrated before Kaunas. I don't believe even Lithuania's coaching staff has understood what they will have to face. It was too late to do anything when tournament started. Honestly I don't even know what they could done. There's basically no D against Luka, if his teammates are having solid night.

Average Tobey you say. Excuse me but he is in your starting 5 line up. I believe that he has no connection to Slovenia at all before acquiring the citizenship. I'm a fan of Finland and I'd love for our federation to pay some $$$ to get a big like Tobey. Finland has some American based guys as well, but none of them are as good as Tobey or Randolph and our guys have some connection to Finland, like Jamar Wilson has a Finnish wife and can even speak some Finnish. Erik Murphy's mother is Finnish. Lithuanian fans should be mad for that. Luka is amazing, but it would've been interesting what would've happened in that game without Tobey.

reamily
07-06-2021, 06:24 AM
The problem with players like Nikolic, Rupnik... is that they cannot run offense alone, they're useful only as backup Pgs. Prepelic and Blazic are more useful of course, but again nowhere near enough to beat better teams. Luka is just totally unique player, generating everything and he even played some decent D on Sabonis.

I'm not sure that we have ever seen someone dominating like that in Europe. Drazen might be better scorer but nowhere near as good playmaker, Sabonis was unstoppable too, but he still needed someone to bring him the ball. It's not coincidence that 30 points triple doubles are not existing in Fiba competition.

right player at right time.. tall, wide capable of scoring everywhere and has great passing skills to cutting team mates

Killer Bob
07-06-2021, 06:39 AM
Average Tobey you say. Excuse me but he is in your starting 5 line up. I believe that he has no connection to Slovenia at all before acquiring the citizenship. I'm a fan of Finland and I'd love for our federation to pay some $$$ to get a big like Tobey. Finland has some American based guys as well, but none of them are as good as Tobey or Randolph and our guys have some connection to Finland, like Jamar Wilson has a Finnish wife and can even speak some Finnish. Erik Murphy's mother is Finnish. Lithuanian fans should be mad for that. Luka is amazing, but it would've been interesting what would've happened in that game without Tobey.

They should be angry at KP, if he had only decent playoffs, Luka would have still been playing in USA. ;)

LuDux
07-06-2021, 08:25 AM
Glad to hear it. Hope they name each of the Lavrinovic twins co-head coach.


Why not Skucas?

Hepcat
07-06-2021, 03:11 PM
Žygimantas Skučas is still under contract with Juventus though and they're not going to let him go to pursue any extracurricular adventures.

https://www.lrt.lt/img/2020/07/15/686333-524228-756x425.jpg

I don't blame Juventus. Would you let Skučas go?

:confused:

reamily
07-06-2021, 10:05 PM
Lately I realized that Mike Tobey is part of the uS u19 Gold Medal team in 2013... Yes I in favor of letting players especially americans to have a chance to play internationally since not all of them are giving chance to represent them in intl competitions...

Liha
07-06-2021, 10:43 PM
They should be angry at KP, if he had only decent playoffs, Luka would have still been playing in USA. ;)

One way to look at it :).

Hepcat
07-12-2021, 03:32 AM
We can put all the blame anywhere we want but after watching the game on Youtube and analyzing what I saw, with Luka Dončić orchestrating the offence Slovenia was simply the better team by almost every metric:

3-PT FG: LTU 37.0% SLO 41.9%
FT: LTU 60.0% SLO 72.2%
Offensive Rebounds: LTU 7/35 SLO 9/36
Turnovers: LTU 8 SLO 5
Points from T/O: LTU 7 SLO 12
Fast Break Points: LTU 4 SLO 6
Points in the Paint: LTU 32 SLO 36

The poor free throw shooting and somehow losing the battle of the boards as well as being outscored in the paint were particularly exasperating. I mean which team had the NBA star big men?

Team Lietuva was simply outplayed. Case closed.

:(