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View Full Version : [2nd round] Group I: ARG-RUS-POL-VEN



Dtown
09-04-2019, 02:54 PM
Still arguably the weakest group, if Argentina and Russia make it through together it wouldn't shock me.

ZaliaBalta
09-04-2019, 06:48 PM
Dang, let’s just take a minute and compare this group to LTU-AUS-FRA-DOM or BRA-GRE-USA-CZE/TUR, hell even to SRB-ITA-SPA-PUR. Poland has a real chance to make it to the quarter finals together with Argentina. Every other group looks deadly compared to this one. Actually i don’t even know which one is the toughest one, but this one is obviously miles away from the other three.

Tevfik1907
09-04-2019, 07:00 PM
Poland and Venezuela will be hated by Chinese supporters for the rest of the tournament, lol. I don't think they've a much of a chance, especially against Argentina and Russia.

madmax
09-04-2019, 07:03 PM
Dayum, that pedestrian Russian team is going to the QF, aren't they... :rolleyes: Damn you FIBA again

Buzissa
09-05-2019, 01:04 AM
Very close call between Russia and Poland.
Going with Poland 2nd. Argentina 1st.

Nemanja
09-06-2019, 09:31 AM
Russia suprise me .They play relatively good ,flow of the ball is good ,shoot correct ,rebound expected .Poland like I wrote against China,has problem on pg with organization and creation,because Slaugther is sg ,also on post doesnt have player which can make at least 6 points .I think Poland is better team,I like their play more than Russia ,I wish them to win . By the way,Ponitka again show high class .

Levenspiel
09-06-2019, 09:32 AM
Very close call between Russia and Poland.
and the game is pretty close; 58-58 in the last quarter after several 8-10 pts Russia leads.
Poland is proving to be a surprisingly resilient team; they always fight back, every game is a dog-fight.

MrRager
09-06-2019, 09:45 AM
Poland must ditch Slaughter ASAP. Terrible player, poor man's Mike James.

Levenspiel
09-06-2019, 10:09 AM
well done, Poland, another tough win for them. Ponitka is the maestro.

Mindozas
09-06-2019, 10:15 AM
Poland must ditch Slaughter ASAP. Terrible player, poor man's Mike James.

Wouldn't be that harsh on him. Poor game, not the best tournament, average player, even tho his input in a win vs China was decent. But basically he was one of the main reasons why Poland is here at all. Quite devoted guy what comes to NT duties

Going back to game, Poland shot amazing 35/38 FT, which is huge 92% for such number of attempts, when till today their % was among the worst in tournament, only 69%. And that almost granted Poland a 1/4 spot. Not a surprise given the easy path, but still would be good achievement. Russia is more or less out, unless Venezuela will come into rescue

Terrorizer
09-06-2019, 02:24 PM
I haven't watched the game and, while some stats are hugely suspicious (38 - 19 free throws, well done, street refsrats), losing to this lousy Poland is totally inexcusable, no matter all the absences, refs bias and any other factors. But Russia NT is an abominable, disgusting, shameful piece of shit. End of story.

P.S. Basketball is just a game, but stuff like that definitely helps you to dive deeper into depression. A silver lining in this massive black cloud here is that from now on I have zero interest in this tournament, which looks really underwhelming with no team showing at least decent basketball so far. The main question is which of underachieving heavyweights will fail less horrendously. It doesn't interest me enough to follow this slugfest though.

soulis79
09-06-2019, 02:35 PM
Russia is an experienced but an aged team. Vorontsevich is 32, Kurbanov 33, Fridzon 34, Antonov 30, Shved 31, Mozgov 33, Khostov 30. I wonder what kind of team Russia will appear in next FIBA events if these players retire in the next couple of years. I see no quality in other players, besides Kulagin brothers, especially in the frontcourt.

Poland was a crap in exhibition games (lost a game from Hungary) but the right time they did what was right and advanced to next phase. Congratulations to Poland!

Peeta
09-06-2019, 05:44 PM
Well, basketball is not so popular sport in Poland. Volleyball its our sport(football its 1 place you know, even when we are weak heh ),but this is an amazing result for us. :) And what am I the only Pole who speaks here. I hope that basketball have more time in our TV and well be more popular with this 1/4. :)

Levenspiel
09-06-2019, 06:55 PM
Well, basketball is not so popular sport in Poland. Volleyball its our sport(football its 1 place you know, even when we are weak heh ),but this is an amazing result for us. :) And what am I the only Pole who speaks here. I hope that basketball have more time in our TV and well be more popular with this 1/4. :)
hey Peeta, welcome. We can say the number of Polish members here was parallel to the number of Polish teams in the EL. and currently, there is none... Hope the good news from your NT brings more people around.

Peeta
09-06-2019, 07:32 PM
hey Peeta, welcome. We can say the number of Polish members here was parallel to the number of Polish teams in the EL. and currently, there is none... Hope the good news from your NT brings more people around.
Thanks, our National TV(Telewizja Polska) show Polish matches on the main antenna. And yes i really dont like EL, i prefer when national league have its matters to advance to europen cup(all level). I dont like closed leagues(in any sports).

Jon_Koncak
09-06-2019, 07:49 PM
Russia is an experienced but an aged team. Vorontsevich is 32, Kurbanov 33, Fridzon 34, Antonov 30, Shved 31, Mozgov 33, Khostov 30. I wonder what kind of team Russia will appear in next FIBA events if these players retire in the next couple of years. I see no quality in other players, besides Kulagin brothers, especially in the frontcourt.



Well, in Brazilian basketball years these players are spring chickens.They have a good 2-3 more FIBA tournaments.

Levenspiel
09-06-2019, 08:06 PM
Thanks, our National TV(Telewizja Polska) show Polish matches on the main antenna. And yes i really dont like EL, i prefer when national league have its matters to advance to europen cup(all level). I dont like closed leagues(in any sports).
Makes sense. Why would you follow a league where your country's team is not given any chance of participation? Ironically, once upon a time, Prokom was the prime example of unfairness of the license system...

Peeta
09-06-2019, 08:17 PM
Makes sense. Why would you follow a league where your country's team is not given any chance of participation? Ironically, once upon a time, Prokom was the prime example of unfairness of the license system...
Well yes i remember time when polish team play in EL(Prokom). But well i really dont like closed league when you need money to buy place.

And well today we play in woman volleyball 1/2 ME Turkey- Poland in Ankara.

Buzissa
09-07-2019, 10:21 AM
This game was basically a coin toss. Congrats to Poland on getting to the QF.
Russia did okay with how much talent they had.
Are there any young talented players coming up? I know they have been 4 years in a row playing Division in the U20s, which is a bit worrisome.

Mindozas
09-07-2019, 10:35 AM
This game was basically a coin toss. Congrats to Poland on getting to the QF.
Russia did okay with how much talent they had.
Are there any young talented players coming up? I know they have been 4 years in a row playing Division in the U20s, which is a bit worrisome.

Can't agree that it's ok for Russia, it could've been in any other group bearing the absentees, but not in this one, when talent wise they still were there among the best squads. Arguably only worse than Argentina. Disappointing result

Buzissa
09-07-2019, 10:46 AM
Can't agree that it's ok for Russia, it could've been in any other group bearing the absentees, but not in this one, when talent wise they still were there among the best squads. Arguably only worse than Argentina. Disappointing result

Game against Nigeria was tied with 1' to go. Many people predicted Nigeria to win that one (including myself, unfortunately :p).
Also don't think they are better than Poland. Two similar teams, with a bunch of decent role players but no outstanding talents.
Shved is perfect for this team because he gives them scoring and playmaking, which they severely lack otherwise.

So they had two very close games, got one of them. Sounds fair:D.

Mindozas
09-07-2019, 11:03 AM
Game against Nigeria was tied with 1' to go. Many people predicted Nigeria to win that one (including myself, unfortunately :p).
Also don't think they are better than Poland. Two similar teams, with a bunch of decent role players but no outstanding talents.
Shved is perfect for this team because he gives them scoring and playmaking, which they severely lack otherwise.

So they had two very close games, got one of them. Sounds fair:D.

It's not about fair or not fair, they also lost a close one vs Argentina btw. It's about being ok with such result. Obviously they are not. You can be ok if you lost to a better team, but Poland is not such. It's surely disappointing big time

Terrorizer
09-07-2019, 04:55 PM
Game against Nigeria was tied with 1' to go. Many people predicted Nigeria to win that one (including myself, unfortunately :p).
Also don't think they are better than Poland. Two similar teams, with a bunch of decent role players but no outstanding talents.

First of all, I don't know what exactly "outstanding talent" means to you but I think that both teams have some top notch players (some of them in decline) in their ranks, not of Gainnis/Gobert caliber, but still compared to your typical role player (someone like Czechia's Bohacik, for example), these are qualitatively better. Poles have Ponitka who is an excellent player imho, and also Adam Waczynski who may not be flashy but he is a do-it-all, extremely useful wing, a very much underestimated player (note his longevity for the top ACB team). Borderline cases for Poland are AJ Slaughter, who is very unstable but still he also had some fine games at the top level, and Damian Kulig who is declining fast but some years ago he was quite a solid PF not afraid to do the damage from beyond the arc. Yet all the other are either youngsters (only Balcerowski, to be frank), role players (with Sokolowski kinda standing out among this unimpressive collection) and a solid share of mediocre and/or washed out ballers (35 y.o. Koszarek stil getting minutes as a point guard and their main center is funny grandaddy Hrycaniuk, enough said). Maybe, I'm not entirely objective but Russia has significantly more high quality players with a good pedigree in top European competitions: Fridzon, Kurbanov, Vorontsevich, Karasyov (sadly in a state of rapid declne)... even someone like Zubkov most probably would be a focal point of offense in this Polish squad. And generally I suspect that local role players for CSKA, Loko and Khimki are of significantly better quality than local role players for Arka Gdynia, Twarde Pierniki Torun or Zeliona Gura. So I suspect that even with hating on anything Russian being vogue in basketball also, Russia NT is clearly better, even much better than Poland NT roster-wise.

So, imho, in terms of pure talent even this, absentees-missing and weirdly composed Russian team is clearly superior to this Poland team (or any Poland team, for that matter) and in its working state the first one should handle the latter without much of a problem. I mean, Poland has huge problems in moving the ball and they lack imposing presence inside, where Russia suffers from the total lack of rim protection (that's why Iran won against Russia in friendlies, just riding on Haddadi brutally abusing whichever defenders he met in the paint). Yet Poland, with their unimpressive, sluggish, uninspired kind of basketball, is nevertheless a strictly organized, strong-willed (well, at least much more strong-willed than world-famous Russian chokers), tactically sound and mentally tough squad with much better team chemistry and much better coaching staff. So they were able to punch well above their weight, tenaciously grinding out this win out of the retarded masters of supreme choking art which are collectively known as Russian basketball NT. Well, judging by stats, refs could be a factor also but that's no excuse when we talk about a loss to such a basketball giant like Poland and not to some Spain or Serbia (or even Argentina).



So they had two very close games, got one of them. Sounds fair:D.
Three close games with two losses. And in two of these three we were leading for most of the time. Plus this one was lost in a really abysmal manner. I hope that neither players nor basketball fans in Russia are "ok" with this.

Yes, we have been very unlucky with all the absences: we have a hole in C with Mozgov being injured, Bolomboy opting out of the team at a last moment and Klimenko (who, truth to be said, struggled to get meaningful playing time as of recently) was not invited by Bazarevich but especially hurtful was the situation with PG/combo guard spot. I think we are a better team without Alexei Scandinavian but losing Dima Kulagin, our main floor general Dima Khvostov and even lesser players like Vanya Strebkov (who matured really well during a last couple of years) hurt an awful lot. And yes, while there are looming problems on the Russian basketball horizon and our core NT players are aging, this team was fourth during last EuroBasket with quite a decent overall performance. When was the last time Poland played in EB semis?

So, for me and hopefully for all the Russian basketball fans it is a giant disappointment and a huge shame to lose to the likes of Poland (no offense to Poles but their national team just has too many mediocre players in its ranks).

P.S. U20 struggles are somewhat mysterious and if this year's U19 NT (which was fifth in Heraklion) won't get out of Division B next year it should be proclaimed as a cryptic curse cast by some evil witch. And it should be added that while our recent results in youth categories are generally lacklustre they are not really abysmal either. For example, this year we were 6th at Euro U18 and 4th at Euro U16. Check Poland's results at youth categories for comparison. I may be mistaken but last time they made it to Division A quarterfinals was back when Ponitka, Karnowski, Michal Michalak, Gielo and Co shined brightly for U16-U18 teams. And that was quite a some time ago.

Terrorizer
09-07-2019, 05:05 PM
Shved is perfect for this team because he gives them ... playmaking, which they severely lack otherwise.

Well, it seems you just love to joke.

Despite being a 'score first' combo guard, D. Kulagin can be decent at playmaking when he is in a high gear and Khvostov is really good at playmaking (with his own set of disadvantages and deficiencies, for sure) but Shved, c'mon, he can only create offense for himself. Keith Langford is Prigioni-type unselfish floor general, if compared to Scandinavian.

Buzissa
09-07-2019, 05:42 PM
In my book, playmaking is exactly what the word suggests: making plays. Either by scoring or creating opportunities for others (not necessarily by assisting).
I don't think Shved can lead teams to titles at this level (FIBA, EL), but he can definitely improve a team that desperately needs some shot creation, which is the case of this Russian NT.

That's all. No need to get so defensive.