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soulis79
08-14-2019, 10:00 AM
Let’s talk about the upcoming Olympic Qualifying tournaments. After the conclusion of the FIBA World Cup we will know the seven teams for each geographical region that will compete at the Olympics (2 from Europe and America, one From Oceania, Asia and Africa). Adding the host nation to them, Japan, we sum up to number eight. So that means that the rest berths for the Olympics are four.


At 2019 FIBA World Cup 32 nations will compete for the Olympic and Pre-Olympic tournaments. After the conclusion of the tournament FIBA will announce the new FIBA rankings and the puzzle of the pre-Olympic tournament will start to take shape.


In order to understand better how the rankings will work after the tournament here is the list of the national teams that participated at 2010 FIBA World Cup but failed to reach this year tournament. These are: 8th Slovenia, 14th Croatia and 20th Lebanon. Let's keep that in mind. These three nations will fall to FIBA Rankings because the Olympic Cycle will move one year later(2011). But there are some teams that likely will rise up to the rankings after the end of the World Cup. These teams are Dominican Republic and Venezuela from America, Philippines and Korea from Asia, Senegal and Nigeria from Africa, Italy, Poland, Montenegro and Czech Republic from Europe. The reason is that they will collect points from their participation to the event. At the 2010 World Cup they didn't took part.


Now let’s assume that the world cup finishes and the Olympic tickets are awarded to the best teams. Here is an hypothetical scenario, my scenario that depends only to current FIBA rankings. No team strengths, injuries, etc.

First round
Gr. A: 1. Venezuela 2. Poland 3. China 4. Cote D'ivoire
Gr. B: 1. Argentina 2. Russia 3. Korea 4. Nigeria
Gr. C: 1. Spain 2. Puerto Rico 3. Iran 4. Tunisia
Gr. D: 1. Serbia 2. Italy 3. Philippines 4. Angola
Gr. E: 1.USA 2.Turkey 3. Czech Rep. 4. Japan
Gr. F: 1. Greece 2. Brazil 3. Montenegro 4. New Zealand
Gr. G: 1. France 2. Dominican Rep. 3. Germany 4. Jordan
Gr. H: 1. Lithuania 2. Australia 3. Canada 4. Senegal.

Australia is the Oceania's participant to the Olympics

Second Round

Gr. I: 1. Argentina 2. Russia 3.Venezuela 4. Poland
Gr. J: 1.Spain 2. Serbia 3. Italy 4. Puerto Rico
Gr. K: 1.USA 2. Greece 3. Brazil 4. Turkey
Gr. L: 1. France 2. Lithuania 3. Australia 4. Dominican Rep.

After this round Argentina and USA are becoming the first teams to reach the Olympics from Americas region. Venezuela, Poland, Italy, Puerto Rico, Brazil, Turkey and Dominican Rep. are the seven first teams for the pre-Olympic tournaments.

Quarterfinals
Serbia defeats Argentina
USA defeats Lithuania
Spain defeats Russia
France defeats Greece

We suppose that USA will win the gold medal game versus Spain. France will win the bronze medal game versus Serbia. Then Spain and France will become the two European teams to compete at the Olympics. Serbia, Greece, Russia and Lithuania are numbers 8-11 for the pre-Olympic tournaments.

Second Round (3rd-4th teams from groups)
Gr. M: 1. China 2. Korea 3. Nigeria 4. Cote D'Ivoire
Gr. N: 1. Iran 2. Philippines 3. Angola 4. Tunisia
Gr. O: 1. Czech Rep. 2. Montenegro 3. New Zealand 4. Japan
Gr. P: 1. Germany 2. Canada 3. Senegal 4. Jordan


The winners from their groups ranked 17-20, the runners-up 21-24 and etc. China reaches Olympics as best Asian team. Nigeria is the African participant to the Olympics. Czech Republic, Germany and Iran are the 12-14 teams for the pre-Olympic tournaments. Canada and Montenegro will be the last two teams to field the 16 best teams from the World Cup

Summarising USA, Argentina, Australia, Spain, France, Nigeria, China and Japan are the eight Olympic teams. On the other hand Serbia, Greece, Russia, Lithuania, Venezuela, Poland, Italy, Puerto Rico, Brazil, Turkey, Dominican Rep, Iran, Czech Republic, Germany, Canada and Montenegro achieved qualifications.

As I said in the beginning FIBA will launch a new FIBA rankings after the tournament. According to this thread the 2 best African teams will probably be Senegal and Angola, the 2 best Asian-Pacific teams will be Philippines and Korea(small chances for New Zealand), America’s best teams will be Mexico and Uruguay and Europe’s best teams probably will be Slovenia and Croatia. But wait a minute these two teams will fall to rankings and meanwhile Latvia and Ukraine will maintain their points. Slovenia will lose a lot of points to the rankings because of the position they achieved at 2010. Croatia too.

If the rankings are the only criteria for the rest eight teams more or less that’s the way that the puzzle of pre-Olympic tournament will work.



https://www.fiba.basketball/qualification-og

Dtown
08-14-2019, 09:50 PM
I mostly agree, only difference I have would be Serbia finishing the top of their group. Which sets up US/Spain and France/Serbia.

Have a US/Serbia final with a Spain/France bronze game for the final Euro Olympic spot.

christodoulou76
08-15-2019, 12:49 AM
Do we know how the 24 OQT teams will be distributed across the four tournaments? Will they base it on world rankings, will they try to group continental teams together? Will there be a draw or will they just assign teams to different tournaments?

christodoulou76
08-15-2019, 12:52 AM
I mostly agree, only difference I have would be Serbia finishing the top of their group. Which sets up US/Spain and France/Serbia.

Have a US/Serbia final with a Spain/France bronze game for the final Euro Olympic spot.

I would also put Nigeria third instead of Korea, Germany second instead of Dominican Republic, and China and Poland ahead of Venezuela.

soulis79
08-15-2019, 08:15 AM
Do we know how the 24 OQT teams will be distributed across the four tournaments? Will they base it on world rankings, will they try to group continental teams together? Will there be a draw or will they just assign teams to different tournaments?

I don't know. I think it's fair to use the rankings system.


I would also put Nigeria third instead of Korea, Germany second instead of Dominican Republic, and China and Poland ahead of Venezuela.


I mostly agree, only difference I have would be Serbia finishing the top of their group. Which sets up US/Spain and France/Serbia.

Have a US/Serbia final with a Spain/France bronze game for the final Euro Olympic spot.

This thread based only to FIBA rankings. It's an example. I wanted to show that even a team from 25th place from the World Cup (Nigeria) could go to the Olympics.

I do agree that Nigeria is better than Korea, Germany from Dominican Republic and probably Serbia is above Spain. Perhaps Australia is above Lithuania, too. These are power rankings for. Perhaps you could fill a bracket based on squad strength, tradition, injuries, bracket etc. It would be a nice idea. :)

christodoulou76
08-15-2019, 02:49 PM
Assuming automatic spots go to USA, Argentina, Serbia, France, Nigeria, China, Australia, the OQT teams (including the two top ranked teams that didn't automatically qualify) will probably be (based on my predicted standings which are slightly different from those of Soulis)

Spain (2)
Lithuania (6)
Slovenia (7)
Greece (8)
Croatia (9)
Russia (10)
Brazil (12)
Italy (13)
Mexico (14)
Puerto Rico (16)
Turkey(17)
Dominican Rep (18)
Venezuela (20)
Germany (22)
Canada (23)
Czech Republic (24)
Poland (25)
Iran (27)
Montenegro (28)
Philippines (31)
Korea (32)
Senegal (37)
New Zealand (38)
Angola (39)

An even distribution of teams across the four tournaments based on rankings would look something like this (although these rankings will change after the WC)

Tournament 1:
Spain
Italy
Mexico
Czech Republic
Poland
Angola

Tournament 2:
Lithuania
Brazil
Puerto Rico
Canada
Iran
New Zealand

Tournament 3:
Slovenia
Russia
Turkey
Germany
Montenegro
Senegal

Tournament 4:
Greece
Croatia
Dominican Republic
Venezuela
Philippines
Korea

Wow, these tournaments I just made up look really unbalanced. :D Tournament 3 looks particularly tough. Hopefully the real ones will be better than these.

soulis79
08-15-2019, 03:00 PM
There is another one tip: If two African teams reach top-16 of the World Cup then their continent will earn one more spot to the pre-Olympic tournament. The same goes if the team is from Asia or if it is New Zealand. In those cases Europe or America will lose one place.

Dtown
08-16-2019, 02:31 PM
Of note: As pointed out in the Expectations topic, certain teams will bare minimum make the QCT even if they have a terrible performance in the World Cup via the Wild Cards determined by rankings.

USA, Spain and Australia would be absolute locks. US has a 280 point lead on third place Brazil, Australia has a nearly a 200 point lead on third place China, Spain has close to a 160 point lead on third place Serbia.

Teams that aren't locks but very well positioned for the Wild Cards

Americas: Argentina
Africa: Nigeria, Senegal, Angola
Asia: Iran, China, Philippines
Europe: France, Serbia, Lithuania, Slovenia

soulis79
09-08-2019, 01:52 PM
These teams qualified to Tokyo Olympics:

Africa: Nigeria
Asia: China
Oceania: Australia

From Americas Argentina is almost certain. Unless Brazil do some magic, USA will be the second team.

In Europe it's early but Spain and Serbia look to have an advantage at this moment.

Italian Pride
09-09-2019, 02:11 PM
I think spain and Serbia will get two Olympic spot for europe

Four tournament,do you know what could ne the format?

Two group of three team like in 2016?

France,Lithuania,Greece,Canada,Croatia and Slovenia will be main contenders in my opinion

soulis79
09-09-2019, 02:24 PM
I think spain and Serbia will get two Olympic spot for europe

Four tournament,do you know what could ne the format?

Two group of three team like in 2016?

France,Lithuania,Greece,Canada,Croatia and Slovenia will be main contenders in my opinion

Spain and Serbia focused to elimanate Italy. They have an easy path to semis so they are the clear favourites for the Olympics.

The pre-Olympic system more or less will be something like that you mentioned. The key will be the host countries and the absentees from the NBA.

Italian Pride
09-09-2019, 02:31 PM
Spain and Serbia focused to elimanate Italy. They have an easy path to semis so they are the clear favourites for the Olympics.

The pre-Olympic system more or less will be something like that you mentioned. The key will be the host countries and the absentees from the NBA.

6 pot of 4 teams right?

First pot with countryvthat hosts respectve tournament,other pot according to ranking FIBA,right?

soulis79
09-09-2019, 02:34 PM
6 pot of 4 teams right?

First pot with countryvthat hosts respectve tournament,other pot according to ranking FIBA,right?

I assume something like that. Keep an eye on Latvia as a wildcard candidate just beacause Slovenia will fall at FIBA Rankings.

soulis79
09-09-2019, 09:12 PM
Pre-Olympics Rankings with current point: Assuming that Spain and Serbia reaching olympics (that's why France, Czech Republic and Poland are shown in italics).

France 650.2
Lithuania 623.0
Slovenia 621.9
Greece 602.2
Croatia 582.9
Russia 525.3
Brazil 510.4
Italy 492.9
Mexico 489.9
Puerto Rico 458.7
Turkey 444.1
Dominican Republic 434.8
Venezuela 410.1
Germany 402.5
Canada 400.2
Czech Republic 368.0
Poland 365.2
China 317.9
Philippines 317.6
Uruguay 285.0
Senegal 269.4
New Zealand 267.3
Angola 262.5
Tunisia 206.3

red colour=Wildcards based on FIBA Rankings (Korea has a good chance to pass Philippines for the second ticket).

I.e Pot 1 should have teams like France, Lithuania, Slovenia and Greece or hosts might take Pot 1. FIBA will decide in the near future.

Italian Pride
09-09-2019, 09:40 PM
11 European NT in the preolimpic tournaments,for sure

9 from world cup +two wild card,so in three tournanents there will ne three European NT,in one tournament only two

I think one pot will be Tunisia,new zealand and two african NT wild card

Mindozas
09-10-2019, 07:00 AM
I changed the topic to 2020, I hope you don't mind soulis79, as OQT will be held next year :)

Talking about hosting, Sabonis talked about it yesterday, said that Lithuania would go for this, but money might be the problem, FIBA again should arrange the auction and starting bid will be 3mln euros... Will FIBA care about anything else than money? I guess no, none other criteria will apply most likely as it happened in 2012, when Venezuela was gifted OQT just for being able to pay the most (5mln). Also there are rumours that all 4 tournaments might be shared between the continents - Africa, Asia/Oceania, Americas, Europe, but since money talks, I wouldn't bet on it, as who from Africa could pay such money or have needed facilities?

soulis79
09-10-2019, 08:31 AM
I changed the topic to 2020, I hope you don't mind soulis79, as OQT will be held next year :)

Talking about hosting, Sabonis talked about it yesterday, said that Lithuania would go for this, but money might be the problem, FIBA again should arrange the auction and starting bid will be 3mln euros... Will FIBA care about anything else than money? I guess no, none other criteria will apply most likely as it happened in 2012, when Venezuela was gifted OQT just for being able to pay the most (5mln). Also there are rumours that all 4 tournaments might be shared between the continents - Africa, Asia/Oceania, Americas, Europe, but since money talks, I wouldn't bet on it, as who from Africa could pay such money or have needed facilities?

I have no hard feelings about that, Mindozas :p

Senegal had expressed interest to organise one tournament. They have Dakar Arena. The problem with African countries is financial resources.

Mindozas
09-10-2019, 09:00 AM
I have no hard feelings about that, Mindozas :p

Senegal had expressed interest to organise one tournament. They have Dakar Arena. The problem with African countries is financial resources.

Didn't know that Senegal build new arena - 15k, nice looking, that changes things a bit for Africa. But as you pointed out - money is still the issue, unless Senegal government will find the funds like they found it for arena :)

soulis79
09-16-2019, 10:04 AM
I think Lithuania is the perfect candidate to organise one of the pre-Olympic tournaments.

https://sportando.basketball/en/kaunas-want-to-host-a-olympic-qualification-tournaments/

2.3M Euros is the price.

Dirtyh
09-16-2019, 01:13 PM
Is it clear how those wild cards are given? And what happens if one of the not qualified team wants to host 1 qualifying tournament and is ready to pay that or even more money. I'm just saying because Finnish coach Dettmann said earlier this year that Finland has change to one of those wild cards. I really hope that FIBA is not going to sell it by auction again.

Mindozas
09-16-2019, 02:52 PM
Is it clear how those wild cards are given? And what happens if one of the not qualified team wants to host 1 qualifying tournament and is ready to pay that or even more money. I'm just saying because Finnish coach Dettmann said earlier this year that Finland has change to one of those wild cards. I really hope that FIBA is not going to sell it by auction again.

FIBA announced few months ago that WCs will be given to teams via FIBA ranking - highest ranked NTs in each continent, which are not qualified to QG or OQT will get WCs. But as you know it's FIBA, so nothing will surprise me

usagre
09-16-2019, 03:55 PM
I always wish for the best possible, strongest Olympic field with teams that have the most potential to make noise to make it. So in that vein I will be rooting for Serbia, Greece, Lithuania and Canada to be the 4 qualifying tournament winners.
I wouldn’t mind if Slovenia, Croatia or Latvia earned a birth either. I feel like these teams have the most potential and if everything goes perfect for them can make this tournament even stronger and more fun to watch.

Steadysoul
09-16-2019, 07:15 PM
I always wish for the best possible, strongest Olympic field with teams that have the most potential to make noise to make it. So in that vein I will be rooting for Serbia, Greece, Lithuania and Canada to be the 4 qualifying tournament winners.
I wouldn’t mind if Slovenia, Croatia or Latvia earned a birth either. I feel like these teams have the most potential and if everything goes perfect for them can make this tournament even stronger and more fun to watch.

I think Canada has the biggest difference between results and potential that it's probably insane to assume they get who they need to commit to two events next summer and somehow avoid a shit draw.

usagre
09-16-2019, 07:24 PM
I think Canada has the biggest difference between results and potential that it's probably insane to assume they get who they need to commit to two events next summer and somehow avoid a shit draw.

For all those teams involved in the qualifying it’s really one big tournament. The qualifying tournament is July 6th and the Olympics begin July 25th. And with the Olympic tournament being cut to only 6 games helps too. Using history as our guide you’re probably right and won’t happen but potentially if they put their A team together I think they would be really strong.

Steadysoul
09-17-2019, 02:49 AM
For all those teams involved in the qualifying it’s really one big tournament. The qualifying tournament is July 6th and the Olympics begin July 25th. And with the Olympic tournament being cut to only 6 games helps too. Using history as our guide you’re probably right and won’t happen but potentially if they put their A team together I think they would be really strong.

When it comes to Canada and it's roster I've seen the use of the word rosterbating. There is an obsession with what can be that we never really talk about what usually is and at the moment besides their coach their national team doesn't appear to be super organized.

Dirtyh
09-17-2019, 09:27 AM
FIBA announced few months ago that WCs will be given to teams via FIBA ranking - highest ranked NTs in each continent, which are not qualified to QG or OQT will get WCs. But as you know it's FIBA, so nothing will surprise me

That's what I thought too and I was very surprised when Dettmann said that. Today he gave interview where he stated that there should be EC, WC or OG every year. He is also very loud qualification window supporter. He is also man that has been fired from every club team job that he has ever had.

But Fiba is Fiba. If Finland pays 5M€ to Fiba I need to buy game tickets...

fasoulaki
09-17-2019, 09:47 AM
Is there anything known about the date when these tournaments will take place? The main problem with theset tournaments is always the restricted amount of time available for a solid preparation.

Italian Pride
09-17-2019, 11:29 AM
Is there anything known about the date when these tournaments will take place? The main problem with theset tournaments is always the restricted amount of time available for a solid preparation.
on July (first week)

Mindozas
09-17-2019, 12:59 PM
Is there anything known about the date when these tournaments will take place? The main problem with theset tournaments is always the restricted amount of time available for a solid preparation.

July 6th-12th was the latest date that I saw announced

Today I read Danilovic saying that Serbian federation will have support from Serbian government to host OQT. So it makes Lithuania, Serbia and Greece as possible candidates from Europe

mojo13
09-17-2019, 03:49 PM
When it comes to Canada and it's roster I've seen the use of the word rosterbating. There is an obsession with what can be that we never really talk about what usually is and at the moment besides their coach their national team doesn't appear to be super organized.

There has been a hell of a allot of introspection in Canada with why all the no-shows this summer. For once the media has really dug in to try to figure out what is going on.

There is no good answer - it is nuanced and complicated. Everything from the the bad FIBA schedule (6 week time commitment, timing of WC prior to the season, a year before the Olympics) to injuries (Murray, Brook, Ennis, Olynyk, Barrett), to agent pressure (Boucher, SGA), to lack of passion/nationalism (Wiggins/Lyles?), the geography (China). Lots of talk that many of the guys are too young and we shouldn't expect them to play before they are financially set. Need to remember that some of these guys like Trey Lyles are really Americans and probably never show up. Lots going into it - I can send you some links to good articles if you want to read more about it.

There was an interview with an agent Mike George who is Canadian, reps a load of Canadian players and has coached many of these guys back in the AAU days (CIA Bounce). He made a convincing argument that summer was a bad coincidental mix of everything going wrong that could go wrong. He said the Jamal Murray, RJ Barrett , Dillon Brooks, Tyler Ennis, Kelly Olynyk injuries were all legit and their clubs intervened otherwise those guys wanted to play. SGA got pushed out by club/agent pressure because he was just traded to OKC and so young (pre big money). The rookies never usually play (Clarke, Kabengele, NAW, Shayok, Barrett) but a couple of them seem quite interested (NAW and Barrett at least - Brissett was there too). Mike George said the timing of the tournament was awful, being a year before the Olympics is terrible (guys didnt want to play two summers in a row), the location sucked....blah, blah, blah. This is an agents perspective mind you.
He said that guys really do want to play, have more passion for this than people think and and next summer, with the Qualifiers right after the NBA season we should see more guys play. We wont see the FAs (which I think is at least Brooks and Tristan Thompson next summer - Olynyk has a player option). And we should be doubtful we see too many guys on rookie deals or non-guarantees.

We will never get full turnout - it just won't happen, so people can roster-bate all they want. But my hope is with 17 guaranteed NBA contracts, a few more on the edge and more and more good players in Europe, we can find that special mix sometime soon. 5 or 7 great NBA talents mixed with 5 or 7 of our best European based talents. With the right mix and right chemistry maybe we can do something. I think the team we nearly had (Olynyk, Boucher, Murray, SGA, Barrett) was enough to compete with anyone in the WC. And I'd keep the core of this WC team - Pangos, Wiltjer, Ejim, Birch, CoJo, Phil Scrubb - together for next summer hopefully with some good NBA re-reinforcements.

I do think this group of NBA guys really want to play - CoJo, Olynyk, Thompson, Birch, Brooks, Powell, SGA, Barrett, NAW. But there will be issues with some every summer with FAs, injuries and youth/contracts.

I am never counting on Wiggins or Lyles until they actually show up. And I have no idea about Kabengele and Clarke - but some other young guys seem quite interested. Brissett, Wigginton, Shayok, Andrew Nembhard, AJ Lawson, Addison Patterson.

The sheer volume is there with more coming....



And there is no doubt Canada Basketball is not the most organized federation - it has been chronically underfunded for decades and plague by infighting and poor coaching (sounds like every other federation). This may be changing with Nick Nurse and more importantly MLSE and OVO/Drake taking a more active financial interest.


Edit:
Here is one artcle worth the read:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/canadas-result-wc-improvement-frustrating-nonetheless/

There is an even better one on The Athletic by Blake Murphy an awsome Raptors reporter if anyone is a subscriber.
https://theathletic.com/1200604/2019/09/11/from-world-cup-disappointment-to-olympic-hopefuls-what-comes-next-for-canada-basketball/

Steadysoul
09-18-2019, 04:07 AM
I think a lot has been made of the back to back summers, and i get it but also, it's only two instead of the four it used to be. In the Old way Canada probably ends up playing non stop.

christodoulou76
09-18-2019, 12:22 PM
Likely OQT teams

Serbia (4)
Lithuania (6)
Slovenia (7)
Greece (8)
Croatia (9)
Russia (10)
Brazil (12)
Italy (13)
Mexico (14)
Puerto Rico (16)
Turkey(17)
Dominican Rep (18)
Venezuela (20)
Germany (22)
Canada (23)
Czech Republic (24)
Poland (25)
Montenegro (28)
China (30)
Philippines (31)
Korea (32)
Senegal (37)
New Zealand (38)
Angola (39)

mojo13
09-18-2019, 06:30 PM
Likely OQT teams

Serbia (4)
Lithuania (6)
Slovenia (7)
Greece (8)
Croatia (9)
Russia (10)
Brazil (12)
Italy (13)
Mexico (14)
Puerto Rico (16)
Turkey(17)
Dominican Rep (18)
Venezuela (20)
Germany (22)
Canada (23)
Czech Republic (24)
Poland (25)
Montenegro (28)
China (30)
Philippines (31)
Korea (32)
Senegal (37)
New Zealand (38)
Angola (39)

You are missing Uruguay and can not have both South Korea and Philippines.

Mindozas
09-18-2019, 06:38 PM
You are missing Uruguay and can not have both South Korea and Philippines.

Yeah and also Slovenia, Croatia and Montenegro can't all be in

Also I think 1st pot in more or less clear - Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Russia (or Euro WC). Depends where all wildcard holders will end up, all 8 in two last pots or ranking+geography will decide, probably the latter

Mindozas
09-19-2019, 09:22 AM
One important change after recent FIBA ranking updates. Korea overtook Philippines and should be 2nd team along with China to get wildcard for OQT. If so, massive blow for Pinoys. Elsewhere, no matter quite notable drop Croatia and Slovenia remains as two best European teams without OQT spot, the same goes to Mexico/Uruguay, Angola/Senegal

Mindozas
09-19-2019, 09:57 AM
10442

Btw, the dates were changed from July 6-12 to June 23-28, 2020. So even less time to prepare after the season

Dtown
09-19-2019, 11:04 AM
So FIBA held true to their word on the rankings and the OQT.

http://www.fiba.basketball/rankingmen#tab=fiba

We predicted most of it. The notable change was South Korea jumped the Philippines and took the last Asia spot.

ZaliaBalta
09-19-2019, 11:26 AM
It will be interesting to see, how FIBA decides to allocate the pots. Will it go directly by the FIBA rankings or will it pay attention to the ranking and regions. What is more, FIBA might drop a bomb and put the hosts in the first pot.

IMO, the best way to do it is to just go fully by the rankings. So we would avoid bs like group A in world cup.

So initially, i would like to see these pots:

POT1: Serbia, Greece, Lithuania, Russia
POT2: Czech Republic, Brazil, Italy, Poland
POT3: Croatia, Turkey, Slovenia, Puerto Rico
POT4: Germany, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Canada
POT5: New Zealand, Mexico, China, Korea
POT6: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, Uruguay

Obviously, first pots are mostly consisted of European teams, but hey that's just the way it is, regarding the basketball level in the world. Except from obviously those american teams that already clinched olympic spots.

Shawshank
09-19-2019, 11:50 AM
Fiba made qualification before NBA free agency.I doubt we will see alot of NBA free agents of 2020 playing in qualification tournament.

Shawshank
09-19-2019, 12:04 PM
Saric,Bogdan Bogdanovich,Bellineli,Sabonis,Osman,Dragic,Hezonja ,Gallinari

is kinda free agents this upcoming summer.

So fiba makes them risk playing qualification without contracts ?

Italian Pride
09-19-2019, 12:35 PM
It will be interesting to see, how FIBA decides to allocate the pots. Will it go directly by the FIBA rankings or will it pay attention to the ranking and regions. What is more, FIBA might drop a bomb and put the hosts in the first pot.

IMO, the best way to do it is to just go fully by the rankings. So we would avoid bs like group A in world cup.

So initially, i would like to see these pots:

POT1: Serbia, Greece, Lithuania, Russia
POT2: Czech Republic, Brazil, Italy, Poland
POT3: Croatia, Turkey, Slovenia, Puerto Rico
POT4: Germany, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Canda
POT5: New Zealand, Mexico, China, Korea
POT6: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, Uruguay

Obviously, first pots are mostly consisted of European teams, but hey that's just the way it is, regarding the basketball level in the world. Except from obviously those american teams that already clinched olympic spots.

So according whit these pots Russia could be finish in the only tournament out of europe?in Canada?right

ZaliaBalta
09-19-2019, 01:52 PM
So according whit these pots Russia could be finish in the only tournament out of europe?in Canada?right

As far as I know, hosts are yet to be announced. And I have maaaajor doubts that Fiba would give three hosting spots to European teams.

Mindozas
09-19-2019, 02:00 PM
So according whit these pots Russia could be finish in the only tournament out of europe?in Canada?right

Nobody knows where tournaments will be held, some rumours has it that all of them might be in different continents. And these pots are just guessing, even tho it's hard to imagine different 1st pot, it matches both - ranking and geographical criteria which could apply

soulis79
09-19-2019, 04:41 PM
FIBA wants 4 tournaments, 4 different continents. A month ago there was a speculation about Senegal hosting one of these tournaments. They have a new arena (Dakar Arena), it would be a massive boost for the country and the continent. I think the amount of money (2.5M Euro or 1,639,892,500 Senegal Francs) is huuuge for this country. The only guess i can make is that NBA will fund such a tournament(they already "fund" the BAL). But on the other hand the chances are slim.

Already Lithuania and Serbia have expressed interest but nothing is official yet. I believe China could be a candidate, perhaps Turkey. From Americas i have no idea. From what mojo says Canada's finances are mediocre. I believe that other countries face same issues. So that leads to 2 Europeans, China and one more.

P.S. I read somewhere that Ayon intends to play for one last time for Mexico.

Mindozas
09-19-2019, 05:41 PM
Don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but there's always a feeling that some Mexico could host such event and find some extra money from government if they'd just want to. Pretty much the story of Venezuela and Chavez in 2012

Katastroika
09-19-2019, 09:18 PM
A major problem of FIBA is that they are very intransparent. Noone can take them serious. Not for pots, not for hostings, not for rules, not for geographical criteria, for nothing. I really expect some craziness about this issue in the next weeks.

mojo13
09-19-2019, 11:12 PM
FIBA wants 4 tournaments, 4 different continents. A month ago there was a speculation about Senegal hosting one of these tournaments. They have a new arena (Dakar Arena), it would be a massive boost for the country and the continent. I think the amount of money (2.5M Euro or 1,639,892,500 Senegal Francs) is huuuge for this country. The only guess i can make is that NBA will fund such a tournament(they already "fund" the BAL). But on the other hand the chances are slim.

Already Lithuania and Serbia have expressed interest but nothing is official yet. I believe China could be a candidate, perhaps Turkey. From Americas i have no idea. From what mojo says Canada's finances are mediocre. I believe that other countries face same issues. So that leads to 2 Europeans, China and one more.

P.S. I read somewhere that Ayon intends to play for one last time for Mexico.


There is potential for Canada. Canada Basketball (the federation) doesn't have the money, but there are some deep pockets nearby. Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (MLSE) the owners of both the Toronto Raptors and Toronto Maple Leafs (and Toronto FC, and Toronto Argonaughts etc). is slowly taking a more active role in Canada Basketball. They could very easily pull this off but they are not a charity and need to see that they could make money. Canadian rapper Drake and his brand/company/record label - OVO is involved somewhat as well and there is talk of them taking a bigger role. Glen Grunwald was brought on board specifically to build up corporate ties and secure better sponsorship and funding. Could be too soon though.

FIBA really should drop their extortion with fees and just get into a revenue sharing agreement with someone like MLSE - share the risk and build something, rather than just taking their tax.

Mindozas
09-20-2019, 05:30 AM
FIBA really should drop their extortion with fees and just get into a revenue sharing agreement with someone like MLSE - share the risk and build something, rather than just taking their tax.

In an ideal world... but in this one - we had one OQT tournament in 2008, then in 2012 FIBA got major money injection from Venezuela, then boom - in 2016 we have 3 tournaments, all countries had to pay. And then in 2020 there'll be 4 already, again some at least 12mln euros or dollars, whatever, falls into FIBA pocket for doing NOTHING AT ALL. Would they be a fools to get rid off it? Of course not, more like making it 6 tournaments in 2024, then finalists meeting in 7th one to decide the winners. Their greed has no limits

Steadysoul
09-20-2019, 02:09 PM
In an ideal world... but in this one - we had one OQT tournament in 2008, then in 2012 FIBA got major money injection from Venezuela, then boom - in 2016 we have 3 tournaments, all countries had to pay. And then in 2020 there'll be 4 already, again some at least 12mln euros or dollars, whatever, falls into FIBA pocket for doing NOTHING AT ALL. Would they be a fools to get rid off it? Of course not, more like making it 6 tournaments in 2024, then finalists meeting in 7th one to decide the winners. Their greed has no limits

To be fair the version from last time was a better format and way less confusing. They just added a tournament for the freed spot that the FWC winner use to get.

Katastroika
09-22-2019, 10:56 AM
Croatia is interested in Larkin joining them for their qualifying campaign. A great scoring option but I'm really not sure if this is the type of point guard that can help them. What they need is a player like Jovic, Heurtel, Westerman.

okanial
09-23-2019, 12:07 PM
Croatia is interested in Larkin joining them for their qualifying campaign. A great scoring option but I'm really not sure if this is the type of point guard that can help them. What they need is a player like Jovic, Heurtel, Westerman.

Larkin shared a photo with Turkish national jersey and said "I didnt recieve any offer but if I did I'd strongly consider it cause I feel like Turkey is home and I like it here"

Toruko
09-23-2019, 05:19 PM
Larkin shared a photo with Turkish national jersey and said "I didnt recieve any offer but if I did I'd strongly consider it cause I feel like Turkey is home and I like it here"

He offers himself to many countries. I think money will talk but I dont want him. We must be able to raise our own play maker. Larkin would be a great fit but he makes you also lazy. Naturalized player should be abolished.

soulis79
10-02-2019, 10:05 AM
Hackett announced his retirement from national team of Italy. He comments that new guys will step up like Moretti and Mannion.

Meanwhile Calathes announced that his intention is to stop playing for Greek national team regardless the result in the upcoming pre-Olympic. He notes that he is been playing for consecutive years and need to stop(11 years). Printezis left the door open if he is healthy and rested.

I have a hunch that both Calathes and Printezis won't show up in the upcoming pre-Olumpic tournament.

Mindozas
10-02-2019, 11:34 AM
Hackett announced his retirement from national team of Italy. He comments that new guys will step up like Moretti and Mannion.

Meanwhile Calathes announced that his intention is to stop playing for Greek national team regardless the result in the upcoming pre-Olympic. He notes that he is been playing for consecutive years and need to stop(11 years). Printezis left the door open if he is healthy and rested.

I have a hunch that both Calathes and Printezis won't show up in the upcoming pre-Olumpic tournament.

Don't know about Printezis, but listening to Calathes, it looked like he will give it all for the last time

mojo13
10-03-2019, 04:29 PM
Canadian media starting to report Canada Basketball is making an attempt to host a Qualification tournament in Montreal. Not sure if we can get it together but it is encouraging to hear.

Still seems Lithuania, Greece and Serbia are planning to submit bids too - anyone hear anything else out there?

https://twitter.com/PeteYannopoulos/status/1179734843816628224?s=20

fasoulaki
10-04-2019, 12:11 PM
Still seems Lithuania, Greece and Serbia are planning to submit bids too - anyone hear anything else out there?
There was a meeting beginning of this week between the general secertary of the greek basketball federation and the government representative responsible for sports and they discussed the federations wish to acquire one of the olympic qualification tournaments. The biggest obstacle is money which should not be a surprise for a country like Greece which still struggles economically.
https://www.sport24.gr/Basket/ElladaBasket/synanthsh-tsagkrwnh-aygenakh-gia-to-proolympiako.5609486.html

Picek
10-05-2019, 02:28 AM
Croatian basketball federation submitted letter of intent for hosting one of the qualifying tournaments.
They were backed up by our government which guaranteed them for the needed money.
Apparently city of Split is the place where it would be hosted if we get it.
Next year is an election year in Croatia and our federation president (Stojko Vrankovic) is also a member of the ruling party.
Panem et circenses.

We played OQT twice and on both occasions qualified for the olympics (I was actually present in Turin) and our federation management ( Vrankovic and Radja) seriously need a good result since they are the ones to be blamed for the WC qualifying fiasco regardless of the FIBA windows and the fact that the quality is not there.
Bad choice of coach, getting rid of older players etc. All of their doing.

To be honest, I already made summer plans for Lithuania next year hoping we would end up in that group.
Cheep beer, great looking ladies, going away from home and basketball. What else do you need?

Italian Pride
10-24-2019, 12:32 PM
Hi guys,do you know when FIBA will announce 4 host countries?and definitevely what are the countries that have requested it?

Mindozas
10-25-2019, 07:36 AM
To be honest, I already made summer plans for Lithuania next year hoping we would end up in that group.
Cheep beer, great looking ladies, going away from home and basketball. What else do you need?

Beer is not that cheap anymore, like it was i.e. in 2011, when we hosted Eurobasket :( After we changed litas to euro in 2015 everything became more expensive, more close to Western European prices. If you could get a bottle of average beer for couple of litas back in the days, which was around 50 euro cents, now it's 2 or even 3 times more expensive. And that in supermarkets, in pubs it's even more expensive. No wonder people loves to travel to Poland or Latvia to buy beer in big numbers, there its way cheaper


Hi guys,do you know when FIBA will announce 4 host countries?and definitevely what are the countries that have requested it?

Heard that it should be announced in beginning of November, but it might be old info, floated around some month ago

Katastroika
11-04-2019, 01:27 PM
Hi guys,do you know when FIBA will announce 4 host countries?and definitevely what are the countries that have requested it?

15th of November. Serbia sent request for hosting one of the tournaments today. Others as far as I know Russia, Greece, Lithuania, Croatia.

Italian Pride
11-05-2019, 10:57 AM
15th of November. Serbia sent request for hosting one of the tournaments today. Others as far as I know Russia, Greece, Lithuania, Croatia.
Thanks


Russia?where do you read about t?

Mindozas
11-15-2019, 11:44 AM
The National Federations of Canada (Victoria), Croatia (Split), Lithuania (Kaunas) and Serbia (Belgrade) have been awarded the hosting rights of the four FIBA Men's Olympic Qualifying Tournaments, from June 23 to 28, 2020.

https://www.fiba.basketball/news/fiba-olympic-qualifying-tournaments-hosts-announced-for-2020

Great news for us. Now let's wait for the draw on 27th

Italian Pride
11-15-2019, 12:12 PM
now we attend the pot

according to ranking cryteria Russia and Greece will play in Canada or Croatia

i don't think that firs pot will be with the 4 host,but with Fiba never say never

Mindozas
11-15-2019, 12:26 PM
now we attend the pot

according to ranking cryteria Russia and Greece will play in Canada and Croatia

i

FIBA said it will geographically established pots, so only in it rankings will apply IMO. Let's say we have 8 European teams left, so obviously there should be 2 pots of 4 and probably they will be picked by ranking - in 1st one higher ranked, in 2nd lower:

1: Greece, Russia, Czechs, Italy
2: Poland, Turkey, Slovenia, Germany

Also I guess Canada will get only 1 Americas team in their group, so other 5 will be drawn in European OQT (2+2+1)

1: Brazil, Puerto Rico, Dominican Rep., Venezuela
2: Mexico, Uruguay

Lithuania - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
Serbia - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
Croatia - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
Canada - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Asia - Africa

Only a guess of course

Dtown
11-15-2019, 12:29 PM
Good for Canada, though I'm surprised they went with Victoria over the Toronto area or Vancouver proper

Italian Pride
11-15-2019, 01:01 PM
FIBA said it will geographically established pots, so only in it rankings will apply IMO. Let's say we have 8 European teams left, so obviously there should be 2 pots of 4 and probably they will be picked by ranking - in 1st one higher ranked, in 2nd lower:

1: Greece, Russia, Czechs, Italy
2: Poland, Turkey, Slovenia, Germany

Also I guess Canada will get only 1 Americas team in their group, so other 5 will be drawn in European OQT (2+2+1)

1: Brazil, Puerto Rico, Dominican Rep., Venezuela
2: Mexico, Uruguay

Lithuania - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
Serbia - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
Croatia - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Americas 2 or Asia/Africa - Asia/Africa
Canada - Euro 1 - Euro 2 - Americas 1 - Asia - Africa

Only a guess of course


7 american teams,so in the 3 tournament will be two americans NT,in one group only one

in Canada's tournament will be at least 2 Europeans Team

Canada
Eu
Eu
Asia
Africa
Eu or Ame

i think in one of the european tournament will be only 2 European teams (host + another)

usagre
11-15-2019, 01:50 PM
Good for Canada

Yeah I hope they make it to the Olympics and we finally see their A team. They are absolutely loaded with talent.
Potentially on paper they can field a deep unbelievable team second only to the US. It’s funny that if they finally do assemble their best it would dwarf what they could have sent at any previous time. They currently have 11 NBA players averaging 19 minutes a game or more in the worlds greatest league. And all 11 are under 30 years old.

Tristan Thompson is having a career year, as is Andrew Wiggins averaging 26 points a game. Gilgeous-Alexander in his second year has been a break out star. Jamal Murray is a stud. Rookies Barrett and Clarke have been among the best in the league. Dillon Brooks has bounced back from injury and he looks like the real deal. Dwight Powell is a solid NBA bench rotation player. And that’s not even mentioning the old 29 year olds Olynyk and Joseph. Trey Lyles is also starting in San Antonio and averaging 8 rebounds a game. Pangos, Stauskas , Birch and Alexander-Walker are others that can make the roster as well. This team is an absolute beast. And the coach ain’t too bad either.

Mindozas
11-15-2019, 02:07 PM
i think in one of the european tournament will be only 2 European teams (host + another)

It depends on how draw rules will be settled. If the way I wrote, then these 8 teams ( 2 different pots) will be drawn into all 4 groups with 2 each without any additional precautions, so it makes two Euros for Canada and two for each other host. If pots will be different, and there'll be rule "no more than 3 Euros in one group", then there'll be a chance for Canada to have 3 too

Italian Pride
11-15-2019, 04:06 PM
It depends on how draw rules will be settled. If the way I wrote, then these 8 teams ( 2 different pots) will be drawn into all 4 groups with 2 each without any additional precautions, so it makes two Euros for Canada and two for each other host. If pots will be different, and there'll be rule "no more than 3 Euros in one group", then there'll be a chance for Canada to have 3 too

Fiba says:

<i> The draw will divide qualified teams from the five FIBA regions into geographically balanced groups </i>

so three european teams ine ach tournament,except one of them

if you consider that african plus asiatic team are six team,it means that one tournament will be composed between:

3 european NT
1 asiatic "
1 african "
1 american "

and if i'm right with the previous sentence in the other three tournament will be 2 american NT for each tournament

so another tournament will be composed between:

2 european NT
2 american "
1 african "
1 asiatic "

are you agree with me Mindozas?Does my reasoning make sense?

mojo13
11-15-2019, 05:41 PM
Good for Canada, though I'm surprised they went with Victoria over the Toronto area or Vancouver proper

Victoria (and the promoters) put on a really good event a couple years ago in a series of friendlies with China. It was well attended and well done.

Victoria is a mid sized city (400K pop.) with no pro sports teams and not a good amount of entertainment options. It is a pretty good bball town and it has a nice 7000 person stadium that will likely be sold out and tickets at a premium. It is also close enough to Vancouver to draw a good crowd from there. Events like this can get lost in a crowded sports scene in Toronto - it will be a main event in Victoria.

Putting China here would be smart by FIBA - with the huge Chinese population in Victoria and Vancouver.

mojo13
11-15-2019, 05:44 PM
Yeah I hope they make it to the Olympics and we finally see their A team. They are absolutely loaded with talent.
Potentially on paper they can field a deep unbelievable team second only to the US. It’s funny that if they finally do assemble their best it would dwarf what they could have sent at any previous time. They currently have 11 NBA players averaging 19 minutes a game or more in the worlds greatest league. And all 11 are under 30 years old.

Tristan Thompson is having a career year, as is Andrew Wiggins averaging 26 points a game. Gilgeous-Alexander in his second year has been a break out star. Jamal Murray is a stud. Rookies Barrett and Clarke have been among the best in the league. Dillon Brooks has bounced back from injury and he looks like the real deal. Dwight Powell is a solid NBA bench rotation player. And that’s not even mentioning the old 29 year olds Olynyk and Joseph. Trey Lyles is also starting in San Antonio and averaging 8 rebounds a game. Pangos, Stauskas , Birch and Alexander-Walker are others that can make the roster as well. This team is an absolute beast. And the coach ain’t too bad either.

Call me Charlie Brown but I think it is going to all come together this summer. It is on home soil - no more excuses!

We really only need half these guys to show up....

usagre
11-15-2019, 06:26 PM
We really only need half these guys to show up....

That just illustrates the incredible depth. 3 of the top 15 NBA leaders in minutes played are Canadian, and 5 of the top 45.
That’s 5 guys playing 33+ minutes a game. Couple that with the fact that all 11 of those guys are either in their prime now or even years away from achieving it. If it ever comes together a lot of non NBA followers are in for a shock when they see the talent that Canada has developed.

Katastroika
11-15-2019, 11:45 PM
2016 tournament was great fun in Belgrade. Hope it will be as good as back then next year. Very interesting tournaments up coming.

Mindozas
11-16-2019, 09:09 AM
are you agree with me Mindozas?Does my reasoning make sense?

It makes sense, I think we are close to what will happen. But actually funny thing is that we don't even know how the tournaments will shape up, will it be round robin format, or as it was done previously - 2 group with 3 teams each, then semis and final. Latter makes more sense bearing mind mind that it will be 6 days tournament.

Btw, I re-watched 2016 draw ceremony, so if FIBA will keep the same system, then all hosts won't be in 1st pot, but will be drawn later with their geographical "neighbors". Serbia and Lithuania will be in the same what so ever then due to ranking. But again, with FIBA you can never know what will happen

Anyway, if it will be the same like in 2016, I'd guess smth like that

1 pot: Serbia, Greece, Lithuania, Russia
2 pot: Czech Rep, Italy, Poland, Croatia
3 pot: Brazil, Puerto Rico, Dominican Rep, Venezuela
4 pot: Canada, Turkey, Slovenia, Germany
5 pot: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, New Zealand
6 pot: Mexico, Uruguay, China, Korea

soulis79
11-16-2019, 01:16 PM
The pots will be decided in a few days. I think there are two scenarios. In the first one the pots should be:

Based only on FIBA Rankings.

Pot1: Serbia, Greece, Lithuania, Russia
Pot2: Czech Rep., Brazil, Italy, Poland
Pot3: Croatia, Turkey, Slovenia, Puerto Rico
Pot4: Germany, Dominican Rep., Venezuela, Canada
Pot5: New Zealand, Mexico, China, Korea
Pot6: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, Uruguay

In this case Canada and Croatia are favored because they avoid Serbia and Lithuania. Furthermore Canada will avoid six teams: Serbia, Croatia, Lithuania, Germany, Venezuela and DR. On the other hand Croatia will skip Serbia, Lithuania, Canada, Turkey, Slovenia and PR. If these two teams gather all their good players, they will have a very good advantage for the Olympics. In this scenario geographical restrictions are a little mess.
There is a second scenario, with slim chances. Then the pots should be:

Based on hosts and FIA rankings.

Pot1: Serbia, Croatia, Lithuania,Canada
Pot2: Greece, Russia Czech Rep., Brazil
Pot3: Italy, Poland, Turkey, Slovenia
Pot4: Puerto Rico, Germany, Dominican Rep., Venezuela
Pot5: New Zealand, Mexico, China, Korea
Pot6: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, Uruguay

In that case the pots are more clear and FIBA can define geographical restrictions. But it's a bit unfair for some teams that they will lose their ranking in the favour of the host teams.

P.S. Brazil's position in the draw is a question mark and will define the America's pots.

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 01:40 PM
Yeah I hope they make it to the Olympics and we finally see their A team. They are absolutely loaded with talent.
Potentially on paper they can field a deep unbelievable team second only to the US. It’s funny that if they finally do assemble their best it would dwarf what they could have sent at any previous time. They currently have 11 NBA players averaging 19 minutes a game or more in the worlds greatest league. And all 11 are under 30 years old.

Tristan Thompson is having a career year, as is Andrew Wiggins averaging 26 points a game. Gilgeous-Alexander in his second year has been a break out star. Jamal Murray is a stud. Rookies Barrett and Clarke have been among the best in the league. Dillon Brooks has bounced back from injury and he looks like the real deal. Dwight Powell is a solid NBA bench rotation player. And that’s not even mentioning the old 29 year olds Olynyk and Joseph. Trey Lyles is also starting in San Antonio and averaging 8 rebounds a game. Pangos, Stauskas , Birch and Alexander-Walker are others that can make the roster as well. This team is an absolute beast. And the coach ain’t too bad either.

I have to spill some scepticism to give a bit of balance here :D Not here to say Canada doesn't have big time talent and potential, but to make few points here. The core is young. We do remember how young USA, still likely more talented than even full rostered Canada team can be, with Kemba, Mitchel, Tatum, Turner looked in 2019 WC. FOA, I doubt Wiggins will even show up, and his game majorly based on athleticism rather than his streaky and inconsistent skillset in the NBA would have harder transition into FIBA ball. Remember all my rants about how FIBA ball is still way different than NBA, you disagreed, but it tuned out to be all spot on. Those from decent to good shooters in NBA, struggled to shoot in the NT, because the angles are narrower, defence narrower, space to go ISO is narrower, there's no three second D violation, ect. As I predicted many non- FIBA familiar individuals would struggle, even the MVP of NBA. Back to Canada, Murray is not better than Kemba who couldn't lead USA. Alexander to me looks like the most dangerous peace from Canada, with his very interesting skillset and size, he may be very dangerous, but still 21yo without any ideas what's FIBA ball. I like Barret, but he will need time, Clarke is also raw guy in terms of do or die environment. Thompson with his skillset, or rather no-skillset and big body action is no different maker in contemporary basketball, those are usually better in wide NBA courts a bit, but much more limited in FIBA. So is this pretty ridiculous talent out of nowhere for non-NBA followers suddenly? Yes. Is this Canada even at the level of 2019 WC USA team as a whole? No, because those 9-12th players won't be as quality and their keys are not better than Mitchel, Kemba, Tatum. Would this team instantly be at the levels of proven and established FIBA contenders as France, Spain, Serbia? I doubt it.

usagre
11-16-2019, 01:57 PM
@Straight Forward

Mentioning Tatum when discussing 2019 USA is silly because he basically didn’t play in the tournament.
And as we look back despite having a very poor roster other than a couple of guys and being absolutely horribly coached, that team was only a fourth quarter collapse away from being undefeated and playing Argentina in the semifinal. So we can look back now and just look at the 7th place finish but the reality is the team despite Popovich’s horrible style of play and coaching decisions especially in the crucial France game not withstanding was right there.

As for Canada, my main point is how a country historically not known for producing basketball talent has had an explosion.
I don’t know if they will ever all get together and compete or even if it will translate in results. But if ones main argument is not really against the talent but rather other mitigating factors that might hold a team back that says a lot right there.
The bottom line is that for th most part without top end talent you’re not going to succeed even in these short one and done tournaments. Fluky scenarios like what Argentina pulled off getting to the Final can happen especially in lesser tournaments like the Worlds as opposed to the Olympics but it’s not the norm. Give me the talent any day over smoke and mirrors and more times than not I love my chances and will be successful.

usagre
11-16-2019, 02:01 PM
@StraightForward

Are you seriously arguing that excellent NBA shooters historically have difficulty in FIBA play ?

usagre
11-16-2019, 02:08 PM
Like I have said before, the “FiBA game” argument is antiquated. The styles of play are the closest they have ever been between the leagues. Success in these short tournaments is due to many factors like luck, team cohesion but talent still trumps all of them.

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 02:53 PM
@StraightForward

Are you seriously arguing that excellent NBA shooters historically have difficulty in FIBA play ?

Tough question. Let's take it from 2000. All good in it. 2004 huge struggle. 2008 so so (James, Wade shot flat out, but Bryant, Paull, Williams kinda struggled from down town). 2012 no problem. 2016 more of a struggle, except Durrant and Anthony. To sum up, I argue that in FIBA it's harder to shoot because the angles are narrower, court smaller, defence rougher and more collective. If we collect all shooting of greats in Olympic games since 1992 I kinda would expect to see more of those struggling than succeeding (shooting worse than they do in NBA), but too lazy for going to such broad data research.


Like I have said before, the “FiBA game” argument is antiquated. The styles of play are the closest they have ever been between the leagues. Success in these short tournaments is due to many factors like luck, team cohesion but talent still trumps all of them.

Absolutely disagree. And I'm more than sure on this one. 40 minutes means way tougher defence and higher physical intensity. You gotta give some credit to Jasikevicius right? He provided some solid basketball with mediocre rosters. He says there's huge difference in EL and NBA, in El it's almost literal fist fight to extent. Also angles and tunnels are way more narrow, like it changes a lot, you need much more precise skillset, different, faster timing. Super skilled NBA superstars will transcend that, but even for them it's requires additional attempt, adjustments, and many solid NBA guys would really feel that. There's more, but the size of the court is the key, it changes so much, and also 40 minutes games which allows EL/FIBA teams to get used to very physical clashes often catches young NBA players not ready for this. FIBA and NBA are 2 different worlds. There's much more defence in EL. It's easier to score in NBA, Doncic talked about that and one guy recently repeated that, can't remember who. Bogdanovic maybe? The best example I think is centers. In NBA some of them are messing around. But when it comes to FIBA, they are so limited, there's no enough space, the angles are tight, the decisions should be instant, no room to play slow and comfortable 1 on 1 grizzly post game. JV, Vucevic, even Jokic are way better in NBA, like way. So that's that, I have no idea how you came up it's a no factor, specially when your USA highly struggled in FIBA. If USA won't collect some of their superstars, there will be a struggle in FIBA

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 03:01 PM
I mean, should we even dig deep? Giannis, freakin' NBA MVP, just as he came back to NBA courts after WC, said something like: "I'm breathing again, finally got out of the cage" :D Enough said.

usagre
11-16-2019, 03:03 PM
Come on Straight Forward cut it out. The US hadn’t lost a game for over a decade until this past year in which like I said earlier was a weak roster and was horribly coached. They were right there against France but lost and was eliminated by basically 5 NBA players. It’s always about the talent.

The main point you are missing is that these are short tournaments and many variables come into play. Just do this exercise in your head and matchup teams in 7 game series and let me know when you would pick the less talented team to prevail.
Sure the games are not 100% identical but it’s close to it and not the wide disparity and differences you argue. It’s all three point shooting and no low post play across the board. In the 1990’s it was different because the NBA didn’t shoot the three as much and had low post bigs. Those days are long gone.

usagre
11-16-2019, 03:05 PM
I mean, should we even dig deep? Giannis, freakin' NBA MVP, just as he came back to NBA courts after WC, said something like: "I'm breathing again, finally got out of the cage" :D Enough said.

Yeah but what you’re missing is that he didn’t have the talent along side him. Let’s put his Milwaukee Bucks teammates alongside him and and substitute them for his Greek Fiba teammates and I think he would be breathing just fine.
Don’t you ?

usagre
11-16-2019, 03:11 PM
Bringing up 2004 is not relevant or appropriate in this discussion because they had no shooters. All other teams shot just fine and I don’t see any excellent NBA three point shooter struggle. Kobe ? He’s a streaky shooter from that range.
All others that are known for that skill have historically done just fine.

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 03:38 PM
Come on Straight Forward cut it out. The US hadn’t lost a game for over a decade until this past year in which like I said earlier was a weak roster and was horribly coached. They were right there against France but lost and was eliminated by basically 5 NBA players. It’s always about the talent.

That's part of my point. Non-superstars NBA players without FIBA experience would struggle or have to adjust, would need time to get used to FIBA. It wasn't only bad coaching, it was things that I talked also. That stretch of USA winning was exactly because of USA taking FIBA and it's differences seriously they analysed game, they prepared, they send their best players, ect. This only empowers my point. We saw what happened when USA can't do that.


The main point you are missing is that these are short tournaments and many variables come into play. Just do this exercise in your head and matchup teams in 7 game series and let me know when you would pick the less talented team to prevail.
Sure the games are not 100% identical but it’s close to it and not the wide disparity and differences you argue. It’s all three point shooting and no low post play across the board. In the 1990’s it was different because the NBA didn’t shoot the three as much and had low post bigs. Those days are long gone.

That's why it's FIBA. You actually named another difference between NBA and FIBA. FIBA is not even NBA PO, it's much quicker, intense, do or die thing. And again, the width of the court changes everything including shooting.


Yeah but what you’re missing is that he didn’t have the talent along side him. Let’s put his Milwaukee Bucks teammates alongside him and and substitute them for his Greek Fiba teammates and I think he would be breathing just fine.
Don’t you ?

That's a lame excuse :) We can put otherwise, Scola was so good in WC because his teammates were so crappy. It's about the skillset, and in Giannis case it's more than obvious. In NBA even being poor shooter he get tons of open looks compared to fiba which helps him. But even that it's not the point, in NBA you barely can stop Giannis' athleticism and explosiveness, in FIBA there are ways and we exactly saw that. Sure, Giannis is MVP of the league because of good teammate, come on man.


Bringing up 2004 is not relevant or appropriate in this discussion because they had no shooters. All other teams shot just fine and I don’t see any excellent NBA three point shooter struggle. Kobe ? He’s a streaky shooter from that range.
All others that are known for that skill have historically done just fine.

Nah, man it's not only about Kobe. And was Iverson or Marbury bad NBA shooters? But anyway, in 2016 such great shooters as Irwing, K. Thompson, P. George struggled. In 2008 Paul, Williams, Redd struggled, even Anthony didn't particularly shine. There's a bunch of them who struggled in FIBA.

usagre
11-16-2019, 03:45 PM
Yes Iverson and Marbury were not good shooters and Iverson as a matter of fact shot just fine in the Olympics from three.
The point you are missing is that these are small sample sizes. They have nothing to do with it being FiBa play. Klay Thompson had equivalent 8 game stretches during NBA seasons where he shot awful. What does that mean ? So you are talking a small sample size and jumping to conclusions.

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 03:49 PM
How the fact the corridors, looks, angles, ISO spaces are much more tight, narrow in FIBA than in NBA has small sample?

usagre
11-16-2019, 03:51 PM
If you think the four other players you surround Giannis with on the court don’t play a role on how effective or successful he is then I don’t know what to tell you. If you don’t put good complimentary pieces around a superstar that allow his skills and abilities to flourish then you get what you got with Greece in ‘19.
He was the MVP of the NBA because Milwaukee did just that by playing to his strengths. But in the playoffs his flaws were exposed just like they were in the Worlds because games are basically do or die knockouts.
So it has nothing to do with FIBA being different.

usagre
11-16-2019, 03:55 PM
How the fact the corridors, looks, angles, ISO spaces are much more tight, narrow in FIBA than in NBA has small sample?

You seriously reaching with this stuff. Are they factors sure to some degree. But please don’t overhype them. It’s still basketball and it’s about the talent. In Basketball unlike other sports the best team usually wins the championship because it’s played out over a series of games. Like the NCAA tournament where many monster super teams have been beaten over the years is mainly due to the one and done scenario. That minimizes all the talent advantages a team has because it’s about one day and 40 minutes.

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 03:57 PM
25.5/ 12.3/ 5 PO campaign perfectly match his FIBA performance...

usagre
11-16-2019, 04:07 PM
25.5/ 12.3/ 5 PO campaign perfectly match his FIBA performance...

6 game playoff series against Toronto

38.5 minutes 22.7-13.5-5.5. 44.8%

5 game World Cup Tournament

24.9 minutes. 14.8-8.8-2.4 52.2%

So factor in 13.5 more minutes a game and a supporting cast infinitely better than what he had with Greece and let me know what you see now.

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 04:11 PM
I let you to answer my question: why young NBA MVP and probably the most athletic player in the NBA played almost 14 minutes less in FIBA game? Because of crappy teammates again?

usagre
11-16-2019, 04:19 PM
I let you to answer my question: why young NBA MVP and probably the most athletic player in the NBA played almost 14 minutes less in FIBA game? Because of crappy teammates again?

You are really surprising me. You really don’t see how having the shooters that he has in Milwaukee as opposed to the horrible shooting Greek teammates is the determining factor on how successful he is and not the fact that the court is a couple of centimeters larger ? I hate the no defensive 3 second argument because it’s moot. They never call it in critical times and especially in the playoffs. The lane collapses when he drives in both the NBA (games that matter) and Fiba tournaments. It’s about having teammates that will punish the opponents for doing this. Greece doesn’t and that is the deciding factor in his success more than anything.

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 04:25 PM
Greece was right in the middle of WC teams by threes % (top 16) and 9th in 2 %. It's not some Cote d'Ivoire. Sure, Bogdanovic had Bucks level players around him all over. Sure, Scola had that. It's an argument, but you can't put everything on teammates, brah. There are differences between FIBA and NBA. He played less because intensity of the games are higher, because corridors are even more narrow and those collapses are much more deadly, there's no room to escape in many cases to explode with his athleticism as he does in NBA.

usagre
11-16-2019, 04:30 PM
Greece was right in the middle of WC teams by threes % (top 16) and 9th in 2 %. It's not some Cote d'Ivoire. Sure, Bogdanovic had Bucks level players around him all over. Sure, Scola had that. It's an argument, but you can't put everything on teammates, brah. There are differences between FIBA and NBA. He played less because intensity of the games are higher, because corridors are even more narrow and those collapses are much more deadly, there's no room to escape in many cases to explode with his athleticism as he does in NBA.

We can agree to disagree for the most part.
I look at Giannis as a flawed player. Yes he was the MVP and deservedly so. But that’s a regular season award and the flaws are eventually exposed in the playoffs. And my main point is that those flaws are present in Fiba or NBA play. Unless he rounds out and improves his game, in my opinion you can not and will not win a championship with him as your teams best player. That’s why last year going into the Toronto series when everyone was salivating over him and the Bucks I predicted the Raptors would win.

usagre
11-16-2019, 04:39 PM
Quantifying it is a silly exercise but for the purposes of this discussion here goes in my opinion.

Success in FIBA world events :

Talent. 55%
Luck, one and done factor. 20%
Coaching, team cohesion 15%
Fiba differences, rules, adjustment 10%

usagre
11-16-2019, 04:58 PM
If anything I might increase the luck scenario. Think of it this way.
If the NBA playoffs were decided in this manner all 16 teams have a legitimate shot at being champions.
All they would have to is win once against 4 consecutive opponents on a neutral floor. They all can do that.
But in the reality of a series you narrow those serious contenders to just a couple of teams. That’s why a lot of this analysis is rendered irrelevant. Teams get hot and or lucky and can outperform their abilities in such short spans. We should always consider this and not underestimate the role it plays in these tournaments.

Katastroika
11-16-2019, 04:59 PM
I have to add that we all should consider absences again. I am not sure if e.g. Giannis will play this tournament if the Bucks reach the NBA final (unlikely for me, but possible achievement). Bogdanovic, if neglecting contract extension proposal of Kings front office will sign a new contract and won't play, Jokic same situation, Vasa Micic will go in NBA quite sure next summer, so one more absence for Serbia etc. etc.

Out of some reason I think that again Lithuania will have the strongest possible roster and Canada will be weakened a lot. Maybe they can create positive atmosphere with home court tournament but knowing how Jokic looked the first games in this season I think Karnisovas will do everything possible to avoid Jokic and Murray to play next summer.

usagre
11-16-2019, 05:02 PM
@Katastroika
That’s a good point. The late June timing of this tournament is going to be a factor. I don’t understand why they moved it up from where it was originally scheduled. Luckily for Canada, other than Murray their main guys aren’t on top level teams that could go deep into the playoffs so they might be ok.

usagre
11-16-2019, 05:06 PM
If Giannis doesn’t play, Pitino or no Pitino I don’t think Greece makes it. I would favor all 4 hosts over them in such a scenario. Again this is assuming that those other teams have most of their key guys.

mojo13
11-16-2019, 05:56 PM
Calling Canada “weakened” may be the wrong word. We we be much better than the summers World Cup team.
I suppose you are saying “weakened” relative to a full turnout, but let’s be honest that will never happen in today’s b-ball world. There will always be injuries, free agents, agent and club interference etc. and plenty of other reasons for opt-out.

I do know Nick Nurse is recruiting at every stop and the Canadians are wined and dined when they come to Toronto to play the Raptors. One cool item is each guy gets a video montage of his “Canadian Bball pedigree” on the jumbotron further laying down the public pressure. Even the media is finally putting good pressure on these guys every chance they get. I’m optimistic we will get a good turnout relative to last summer.

Tristan Thompson is the the main free agent but he can be extended mid season by the Cavs. Dillon Brooks is the other but he came out yesterday saying he was playing “no matter what, contract or no contract”. We will see if that is BS but I feel the momentum, and more importantly, the peer pressure amongst the players mounting.

Straight forward
11-16-2019, 11:53 PM
Here's the perfect article on Giannis' FIBA campaign and some obvious differences between NBA and FIBA. There's the things which usagre emphasized so much, but surely not only that, good read:

"Why was the best player in the world last season so ordinary in a signature international tournament? There are many answers to this question, but they all revolved around the same theme: Antetokounmpo just isn’t built for FIBA’s style of play, which tends to be slower, more rigid, more compressed, and more physical than that of the NBA. Slow, rigid, compressed, and physical are not words to describe Antetokounmpo’s brilliance. Even his physical strength manifests itself best when he’s on the run, something that happens far less often in a FIBA setting."

https://www.sbnation.com/2019/9/10/20855719/giannis-antetotkounmpo-greece-fiba-world-cup-2019-its-ok

Katastroika
11-17-2019, 12:39 PM
Calling Canada “weakened” may be the wrong word. We we be much better than the summers World Cup team.
I suppose you are saying “weakened” relative to a full turnout, but let’s be honest that will never happen in today’s b-ball world. There will always be injuries, free agents, agent and club interference etc. and plenty of other reasons for opt-out.

I do know Nick Nurse is recruiting at every stop and the Canadians are wined and dined when they come to Toronto to play the Raptors. One cool item is each guy gets a video montage of his “Canadian Bball pedigree” on the jumbotron further laying down the public pressure. Even the media is finally putting good pressure on these guys every chance they get. I’m optimistic we will get a good turnout relative to last summer.

Tristan Thompson is the the main free agent but he can be extended mid season by the Cavs. Dillon Brooks is the other but he came out yesterday saying he was playing “no matter what, contract or no contract”. We will see if that is BS but I feel the momentum, and more importantly, the peer pressure amongst the players mounting.

Yeah, bro. I meant of course in terms of a hypothetical ALL CANADA full hardcore 5 star roster which would be a serious medal contender in Tokyo - SERIOUS. We have very much the same problems like Canada (also in the past), I completely understand your situation.

Katastroika
11-17-2019, 09:47 PM
Kokoskov will be new head coach of Serbia for the next campaign. A good solution.

ZaliaBalta
11-19-2019, 02:28 PM
According to 24sek.lt, the brackets should be formed by the rating:

(1) Serbia (6), Greece (7), Lithuania (8), Russia (9)

(2) Czech Republic (10), Brasil (11), Italy (12), Poland (13)

(3) Croatia (14), Turkey (15), Slovenia (16), Puerto Rico (17)

(4) Germany (18), Dominican Republic (19), Venezuela (20) Canada (21)

(5) New Zealand (24), Mexico (25), China (27) (South) Korea (30)

(6) Angola (32), Tunisia (33), Senegal (35), Uruguay (43)


According to the same source, FIBA will take into account the geographical location of the tournaments, which probably tells, that groups with european hosts will consist of three european teams (out of 6).

The tournament system goes as follows:

6 teams are divided into two groups of 3 teams and play one game against their opponents of the group.
1st and 2nd place of each group goes to the semi finals
1st seed of group A plays against 2nd seed of group B and vice-versa.
Winners go to the Final.
Champion goes to the Olympics.

Getting 4 victories gives a ticket to Tokyo without any doubts, in some cases 3 wins would also be enough.

Although, it is not officially confirmed by FIBA, the reporters probably heard this sytems somewhere in the background talks, and i believe that this is the exact system that we are going to witness during the Olympic Qualification Tournaments.

Mindozas
11-19-2019, 03:44 PM
According to 24sek.lt, the brackets should be formed by the rating:

They are just guessing about everything, they gave a clue about that in the same article. None knows how it will go exactly

Mindozas
11-21-2019, 07:59 AM
Ok, the system should remain the same like before: 2 groups with 3 teams each, semis and final to decide the winner and Olympics participant. Still no info regarding the draw

Mindozas
11-22-2019, 06:05 PM
The pots will be decided in a few days. I think there are two scenarios. In the first one the pots should be:

Based only on FIBA Rankings.

Pot1: Serbia, Greece, Lithuania, Russia
Pot2: Czech Rep., Brazil, Italy, Poland
Pot3: Croatia, Turkey, Slovenia, Puerto Rico
Pot4: Germany, Dominican Rep., Venezuela, Canada
Pot5: New Zealand, Mexico, China, Korea
Pot6: Angola, Tunisia, Senegal, Uruguay



You were right on this one, this time seeds were strictly based on rankings, then during draw groups will be form based on geographical criteria

Katastroika
11-22-2019, 06:12 PM
Do you understand the procedure more detailed?

Hypothetically Serbia - Italy - Turkey - Germany is possible. Same Lithuania Czech - Slovenia. How to avoid 4 Europeans in a group? Does it mean that for example DomRep and Venezuela will be automarically be drawn into a group were Pot 1 - 3 are Europeans?

Mindozas
11-22-2019, 06:27 PM
Do you understand the procedure more detailed?

Hypothetically Serbia - Italy - Turkey - Germany is possible. Same Lithuania Czech - Slovenia. How to avoid 4 Europeans in a group? Does it mean that for example DomRep and Venezuela will be automarically be drawn into a group were Pot 1 - 3 are Europeans?

Theoretically there must be no more than 3 Euros per group, no more than 2 Americas teams either, to make this balance as FIBA wants, so yeah, Germany surely will go to group where Puerto-Rico or Brazil (or both) will be drawn

Katastroika
11-25-2019, 11:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GQDzPLdTCc

I watched a lot of his offensive recitations. We will see a completely new Serbia in my opinion than this summer. Back to Djordjevic's beginnings with 2 playmakers and a lot more transition offense with stretch conception. I read that we had 7 offensive posessions less than 2014 this year per game in average. Think this will change drastically back to a higher pace volume. Additionally there is to be said that (as Igor mentions here) good ball movement is not most necessarily a concept for good offense. In other words Bogdan and (from now) Vasa or Teo will be the centerspots of Serbian offense beside Jokic.

Also here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oM9kAld0iE
Watch for strech option involvement at some sets with receiving the ball outside the perimeter and further facilitating.

PS: If there is a better thread to put this, I would appreciate admins to do so.

Toruko
11-26-2019, 12:32 AM
Fuck my life if we draw Serbia in Belgrade. Dont get me wrong I dont have hope for qualification with these bigs but i want turkey to beat as many opponents as possible for fiba ranking. I am not afraid of any tier 2 team to be honest. Drawing the czechs would be nice for payback but if i had the chance to choose i would take canada and greece in canada hoping the canadian stars wont come this time either.

ZaliaBalta
11-26-2019, 08:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tx6Imf8Kj4

Not a draft, just information about the procedure.

- Each Qualification Tournament consists of 6 teams (3 teams per groups A and B)
- Groups A consist of teams from 1st, 4th and 5th brackets.
- Groups B consist of teams from 2nd, 3rd and 6th brackets.
- Teams will be allocated with a number (1, 2 or 3) in order to determine the order of the games and the initial position in the group.
- FIBA wants to equally spread teams from the same continent across different groups.
- Teams will be drawn and placed in the first available group following the host cities' alphabetical order (hmm??)
- Maximum two European teams can go into the same group (A or B in different cities). And maximum three in the same tournament.
- Maximum one American team can go into the same group (A or B in different cities). And maximum two in the same tournament.

Well it is all explained in the video. The draft takes place tomorrow.

Straight forward
11-27-2019, 11:46 AM
So the draw in a good hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71thIUTN4Qs

ZaliaBalta
11-27-2019, 01:45 PM
BELGRADE (SERBIA)

Group A: Dominican Republic, New Zealand, Serbia

Group B: Puerto Rico, Italy, Senegal

-------------------------

KAUNAS (LITHUANIA)

Group A: Lithuania, Korea, Venezuela

Group B: Poland, Slovenia, Angola

-------------------------

SPLIT (CROATIA)

Group A: Germany, Russia, Mexico

Group B: Tunisia, Croatia, Brazil

-------------------------

VICTORIA (CANADA)

Group A: Greece, China, Canada

Group B: Uruguay, Czech Republic, Turkey

Jon_Koncak
11-27-2019, 02:11 PM
Split and Victoria will be interesting tournaments

Serbia and Kaunas not so much.Lietuva with a perfect draw.All this bitching about FIBA in the World Cup paid off.

Shawshank
11-27-2019, 02:32 PM
Is it official that G.Dragic have retired from Nt or there is still chances he gonna give one last try for his first Olympic dream?

Killer Bob
11-27-2019, 02:35 PM
Split and Victoria will be interesting tournaments

Serbia and Kaunas not so much.Lietuva with a perfect draw.All this bitching about FIBA in the World Cup paid off.

It depends what kind of a team can bring Slovenia. Luka + 4 good role players, could be enough in 1 game. Lithuania a big favorite of course.

Killer Bob
11-27-2019, 02:36 PM
Is its official that G.Dragic have retired from Nt or there is still chances he gonna give one last try for his first Olympic dream?

99% that he won’t play.

Straight forward
11-27-2019, 02:36 PM
I say Serbia (who knew), Lithuania, Germany (I feel Croatia will choke) and Greece will go to Olympics.

Yes, I see Canada choking to qualify even with their stars. If Sloukas will be healthy and ready this time as their best scorer in perimeter, Calatches will be in good shape (shooting 44% threes this season), Giannis will adjust a bit better after reality ticket in 2019 WC, I still see Greece as a force. Greece won't throw bricks as they did in WC, they still have a heck of a roster if all healthy and ready and they will be much more ready than in 2019. Canada will be stacked, but completely new established project, dependant on those quick shooting lottery which Nick Nurse prefers. Even Turkey will give Canada some tough time, playing rather similar basketball.

soulis79
11-27-2019, 02:43 PM
Interesting draw. In Belgrade Serbia is the favourite but Italy and Dominican Republic might do some damage if their roster is full. Puerto Rico i think, is in rebuilding process with some good NBA players but a lot of denials in recent years. Senegal and New Zealand are huge outsiders.

In Kaunas Lithuania is two steps ahead from every other team. Their only actual contender is Slovenia. But Slovenia needs Randolph to reconsider his retirement in order to give some boost to the team(Dragic said that his retirement is peremptory). Doncicless Slovenia means a crap team. Poland is a good team, Angola, Venezuela and Korea are medium level teams. Nothing really special.

In Split i think we will audience the toughest tournament. Croatia, Germany, Brazil and Russia can give us really good matches. I am looking forward to see that tournament. Mexico might use the old guys for one last time (Ayon is probable) or will continue with some youngsters. Tunisia just fills the group.

Finally in Victoria that tournament willl be the one of question marks. Will Antetokounmpo join Greece? Will Canada have a full roster? Will Vesely play for the Czechs? Will Turkey achieve something good outside their borders? If all these happen then this tournament will be very interesting. I am giving the hosts a slight advantage.

Katastroika
11-27-2019, 02:50 PM
Best tournament for sure in Split. My favourites are the Germans. But Split is a very difficult place to play, everything's open.

Great draw in Victoria, too.

As you've mentioned Serbia and Lithuania should qualify even there are some tough final games possible.

ZaliaBalta
11-27-2019, 03:02 PM
I'm saying

Serbia vs. Italy -> Serbia

Lithuania vs. Slovenia -> Lithuania

Croatia vs. Germany -> Germany (I would not be surprised of a Germany - Russia final, but my bets would still go for Germany)

Canada vs. Greece -> Canada (Would love to see Czechs surprising us all once again, but if Canada brings at least 4-5 players of their A team, i see them qualifying)

Killer Bob
11-27-2019, 03:07 PM
It’s nice to see how confident people from Lithuania are. Do you remember Slovenian odds to win Eurobasket before tournament started? It were 30:1. It will be much better next year.

Straight forward
11-27-2019, 03:15 PM
It’s nice to see how confident people from Lithuania are. Do you remember Slovenian odds to win Eurobasket before tournament started? It were 30:1. It will be much better next year.

No Dragic. Even Randolph (right?). That changes everything.

Jon_Koncak
11-27-2019, 03:17 PM
The problem with Slovenia : You wont find a more anti FIBA person in the world except Jodi,than Mark Cuban.I've read statements where he says that NBA should organise their own international tournaments like NHL does.In my mind i'm sure he will do everything to not allow Doncic to play.Even if he does(doubtful) the second best player is who?Omic?Prepelic.There is really a ton of difference between Dragic,Doncic,Randolph and the rest vs Doncic and the rest.

ZaliaBalta
11-27-2019, 03:20 PM
It were 30:1. It will be much better next year.

Why would it be better when Randolph (11.7 PTS, 14.1 EFF) and G.Dragič (22.6 PTS, 22.0 EFF) retired? Prepelič also had a tournament of his life (13.8 PTS, 13.9 EFF). Obviously Luka Dončič is the game changer, probably currently the best european player, but it is not enough at FIBA basketball. Lithuania just has a much deeper squad, that's why we might seem to be confident. Don't be fooled, a lot of people are crying about getting Slovenia in the same tournament in the comment sections of our local basketball websites. But realistically speaking, Lithuania has a deeper squad and a better team skillset compared to Slovenia witout Dragič and Randolph (who actually has nothing to do with Slovenia in the first place...).

Killer Bob
11-27-2019, 03:25 PM
No Dragic. Even Randolph (right?). That changes everything.

Olympics are important for Americans and Luka is a monster at the moment. Luka, Randolph, Prepelic, Cancar and few good role players can win against anyone in one match.

Killer Bob
11-27-2019, 03:27 PM
Why would it be better when Randolph (11.7 PTS, 14.1 EFF) and G.Dragič (22.6 PTS, 22.0 EFF) retired? Prepelič also had a tournament of his life (13.8 PTS, 13.9 EFF). Obviously Luka Dončič is the game changer, probably currently the best european player, but it is not enough at FIBA basketball. Lithuania just has a much deeper squad, that's why we might seem to be confident. Don't be fooled, a lot of people are crying about getting Slovenia in the same tournament in the comment sections of our local basketball websites. But realistically speaking, Lithuania has a deeper squad and a better team skillset compared to Slovenia witout Dragič and Randolph (who actually has nothing to do with Slovenia in the first place...).

I said that you’re clear favorite, but it’s still much easier to win Olympics qualifiers than Eurobasket. Meaning, you don’t need that deep team. Luka+Randolph or other foreign rim protector can play against anyone. Btw. Prepelic is averaging 22 points in Badalona this year. ;)

Mindozas
11-27-2019, 03:42 PM
I said that you’re clear favorite, but it’s still much easier to win Olympics qualifiers than Eurobasket. Meaning, you don’t need that deep team. Luka+Randolph or other foreign rim protector can play against anyone. Btw. Prepelic is averaging 22 points in Badalona this year. ;)

Does Slovenia has any naturalized players except Randolph? I mean if he won't change his mind. I remember Dunston was about to get passport, but smth failed and later he played for Armenia. Any other possible candidate?

Killer Bob
11-27-2019, 03:52 PM
Does Slovenia has any naturalized players except Randolph? I mean if he won't change his mind. I remember Dunston was about to get passport, but smth failed and later he played for Armenia. Any other possible candidate?

I believe they will do everything to convince Randolph to play and I believe there’re some chances, because it’s Olympics after all. They really need someone, who can play D. on 4 or 5. They have enough role players like Prepelic, Z.Dragic, Blazic, Cancar...to pair them with Luka.

Toruko
11-27-2019, 04:16 PM
Love our group. I wanted Greece so much, Canada also wont be that tough because half of the roster wont come i know it. It couldnt have be better for us.

usagre
11-27-2019, 04:21 PM
What a coincidence that China is in Victoria and Poland in Kaunas. I am shocked.

Toruko
11-27-2019, 04:39 PM
With Yurtseven and a health Semih we will compete with anyone in the tournament. Larkin would be insane power up. If he joins the turkish national team a qualification is more than possible. Cedi and Furk will be one year older Ersan will come too. Not really afraid of Greece tbh but a full roster canada is not beatable in Canada.

The question is really will Giannis come? If he reaches the finals his season will end mid June one month prep without any reg time? If he skip Greece wont be a big problem. Its still too early for the turkish team but a decisive game against Canada would be great.

soulis79
11-27-2019, 05:06 PM
Does Slovenia has any naturalized players except Randolph? I mean if he won't change his mind. I remember Dunston was about to get passport, but smth failed and later he played for Armenia. Any other possible candidate?

Omic was counted as a naturalized player. If Randolph declines Slovenia will try to attract another US big man.

ZaliaBalta
11-27-2019, 05:44 PM
The question is really will Giannis come? If he reaches the finals his season will end mid June one month prep without any reg time? If he skip Greece wont be a big problem. Its still too early for the turkish team but a decisive game against Canada would be great.

I dare to say that at FIBA tournaments Greece is not any weaker without Giannis. Team-wise they might even be more focused and even stronger without Antetokounmpo. Bold opinion, but i think that my statement does make sense.

Toruko
11-27-2019, 05:56 PM
I dare to say that at FIBA tournaments Greece is not any weaker without Giannis. Team-wise they might even be more focused and even stronger without Antetokounmpo. Bold opinion, but i think that my statement does make sense.

Normally i would even agree with you but the greek team especially the big rotation is really old. The guard rotation is still solid with Sloukas and Calathes despite having shooting problems but the rest is average at most. Giannis even though he cant finish near a blocked paint has much gravity and gives everyone else an open shot and he still kills in transition let alone his defensive contribution.

Greece has 2 weak points in my opinion 1. lack of a scorer and a solid big who can substitute Borousis. Greece can still beat the majority of the team on a good day but can also lose to everyone.

Toruko
11-27-2019, 06:17 PM
https://www.eurohoops.net/en/olympic-games/974865/rick-pitino-addresses-giannis-presence-in-the-pre-olympic-tournament/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter


Rick Pitino, the new head coach of the Greek selection, discussed Giannis’ possible presence on the team, that will depend on his NBA schedule. The Bucks are absolute favorites this season and this can have an impact on the Greek NT, something that Pitino acknowledges.

“We will see what happens with Giannis (Antetokounmpo). Of course, we want him to make it as far in the playoffs as possible, but we will see what happens. It depends on his NBA schedule. Turkey and Canada have the most NBA talent, but in tournaments like this it doesn’t really count”, Pitino shared on Greek Basketball Federation’s website.

R1ou
11-27-2019, 07:15 PM
Normally i would even agree with you but the greek team especially the big rotation is really old. The guard rotation is still solid with Sloukas and Calathes despite having shooting problems but the rest is average at most. Giannis even though he cant finish near a blocked paint has much gravity and gives everyone else an open shot and he still kills in transition let alone his defensive contribution.

Greece has 2 weak points in my opinion 1. lack of a scorer and a solid big who can substitute Borousis. Greece can still beat the majority of the team on a good day but can also lose to everyone.

You forget there's Koufos who will play if healthy. Despite Greece's big men rotation is thin with an old Bourousis and a raw Papagiannis being the other options, it's still light-years ahead of Turkey's best one which considers a semi retired Semih Erden and a 21 year old NCAA playef who has never played in a Fiba tournament before.

Greecd will play beautiful basketball under Pitino and can finally reach up to their potential. Everything depends on Canada's roster and if their guys commit, but still they're an opponent which suits with Giannis.

Turkey I feel like it's more than biased to expect from them to eliminate 2 teams with superior rosters away from home when they have not been able to achieve something meaningful in that regard.

Toruko
11-27-2019, 07:36 PM
You forget there's Koufos who will play if healthy. Despite Greece's big men rotation is thin with an old Bourousis and a raw Papagiannis being the other options, it's still light-years ahead of Turkey's best one which considers a semi retired Semih Erden and a 21 year old NCAA playef who has never played in a Fiba tournament before.

I would say its quite the opposite. You are right I indeed forgot about Koufos but he is also not that big number to be the game changer between two teams. Also you forget the option letting Ilyasova play 5 and Osman 4. Ilyasova is more than enough to take on the three bigs of greece defensively. Incidently I believe that a Yurtseven is right now much better than a Papagiannis.


Turkey I feel like it's more than biased to expect from them to eliminate 2 teams with superior rosters away from home when they have not been able to achieve something meaningful in that regard.

Time will tell but you are right about Canada. Neither Greece nor Turkey has chances to beat them with their NBA stars. I dont expect Turkey to qualify this time but nor will Greece. Besides Turkeys roster without Giannis is clearly much better Giannis can make the difference but I still cant say who is the favorite.

R1ou
11-27-2019, 07:48 PM
I would say its quite the opposite. You are right I indeed forgot about Koufos but he is also not that big number to be the game changer between two teams. Also you forget the option letting Ilyasova play 5 and Osman 4. Ilyasova is more than enough to take on the three bigs of greece defensively. Incidently I believe that a Yurtseven is right now much better than a Papagiannis.



Time will tell but you are right about Canada. Neither Greece nor Turkey has chances to beat them with their NBA stars. I dont expect Turkey to qualify this time but nor will Greece. Besides Turkeys roster without Giannis is clearly much better Giannis can make the difference but I still cant say who is the favorite.

A clearly much better roster with only 4 good players in Wilbekin, Osman, Korkmaz and a declining Ilyasova? You giys got thrashed by Czech Republic which btw I consider as a bigger threat than Turkey with Vesely showing up this year. As I said, not objective.

Toruko
11-27-2019, 07:55 PM
A clearly much better roster with only 4 good players in Wilbekin, Osman, Korkmaz and a declining Ilyasova? You giys got thrashed by Czech Republic which btw I consider as a bigger threat than Turkey with Vesely showing up this year. As I said, not objective.

Declining Ilyasova? Your entire team is declining. According to Calathes last tournament, Bourousis 83 born, Printezis most likeky also last tournament etc.

Furkan Korkmaz, Cedi Osman, Wilbekin, Yurtseven, Melih Mahmutoglu and in addition guys like Yigit Arslan, Metecan Birsen, Berk Ugurlu or Muhsin Yasar who are contributing in Eurocup are more than enough for Greece without Giannis which just consist of Sloukas, Calathes and maybe Printezis. I actually see the Czechs also as a bigger threat for Turkey.

Straight forward
11-27-2019, 07:57 PM
Iliasova at 5 against Thompson and Koufos would be a nice match-up, LOL.

No disrespect to Turkey, and some nice moderators from there, was 1936 the last time Turkey played in Olympic games? In 1952 they appeared in qualifying round. I mean, that's something to consider.

Toruko
11-27-2019, 07:59 PM
Iliasova at 5 against Thompson and Koufos would be a nice match-up, LOL.

Thompson yes but Koufos wouldnt see any light. hhaahahahahahhaha

Shawshank
11-27-2019, 08:57 PM
both turks greeks canadians have arguments about chances to win,but all of them are very unstable and nobody knows including themselfs what team gonna show up in one or another game.Funny enough most stable team is Czechs,but they have lesser tallent.Very hard to guess which one from those 4 gonna be in Tokyo.

both turks and greeks have bad taste about satoransky leaded team after wc 2019 and will go for revenge against team that eliminated them one year before.

Toruko
11-27-2019, 09:05 PM
There are too many variables that needs to be considered. How many player will come to the tournament, in which constitution, who gets injured etc. We are talking just about possibilities which is ok. Its makes fun to predict before the tournament starts.

R1ou
11-27-2019, 09:08 PM
Some Eurocup benchwarmers along with semi professional and retired players are more than enough to handle a Greek squad full of experienced Euroleague players Giannis. Let that sink in until Turkey gets a meaningful result outside of home for the first time since ever..

Toruko
11-27-2019, 09:11 PM
Some Eurocup benchwarmers along with semi professional and retired players are more than enough to handle a Greek squad full of experienced Euroleague players Giannis. Let that sink in until Turkey gets a meaningful result outside of home for the first time since ever..

Yeah lets wait for the games then. :D

Katastroika
11-27-2019, 10:07 PM
In all your discussion all of you're forgetting about the Czechs. I told also before tournament in summer. They have maybe best role player contribution of all European teams. A very dangerous team. Will be a great tournament and the better should win. I have a feeling that Greece will make it.

PS: Argument that Greece will play "beautiful basketball under Pitino" is quite ridiculous. You don't even know what basketball he'll play to involve Giannis and who will show up next summer. Like we would say we will play beautiful under Kokoskov. As good changes are, there's always a possibility that it's simply not working.

Canada: Murray, Gilgeous Alexander confirmed. Can't wait to see them. Wow, finally it seems we'll see the great Canada we all hoped for.

juli_rc
11-28-2019, 07:08 PM
Canada already set a NBA level team back in 2015 America Pre Olimpics Tournament, with 9 NBA players. Finish 3°, loosing against both Argentina and Venezuela. This was the roster:

Philip SCRUBB F 191cm
AEK Athens (GRE)

Cory JOSEPH PG 193cm
Toronto Raptors (USA)

Melvin EJIM F 198cm
Orlando Magic (USA)

Andrew NICHOLSON PF 206cm
Orlando Magic (USA)

Andrew WIGGINS SG 203cm
Minnesota Timberwolves (USA)

Nikolas STAUSKAS SF 198cm
Philadelphia 76ers (USA)

Anthony BENNETT PF 201cm
Minnesota Timberwolves (USA)

Aaron DOORNEKAMP PF 201cm
Braunschweig (GER)

Brady HESLIP SG 188cm
AV Cantu (ITA)

Kelly OLYNYK PF 213cm
Boston Celtics (USA)

Dwight POWELL PF 205cm
Dallas Mavericks (USA)

Robert SACRE C 205cm
Los Angeles Lakers (USA)

usagre
11-28-2019, 07:28 PM
I hope this was an attempt at humor. If not here’s a little exercise for you, list their statistics in the NBA during that season and now and let me know what results you find.

mojo13
11-28-2019, 10:02 PM
I hope this was an attempt at humor. If not here’s a little exercise for you, list their statistics in the NBA during that season and now and let me know what results you find.

That was a good joke. That team was a pretty young too.


Anyways, so far the following have said they are 100 percent in to the Canadian media

Dillon Brooks
Cory Joseph
Jamal Murray
Kelly Olynyk
Dwight Powell
RJ Barrett
Khem Birch
Shai Gilgeous Alexander
Nickeil Alexander Walker
Chris Boucher

And counting.....

Not that I fully believe them, but still nice to see....Turkey should not be too tough to deal with. Greece seem unlikely to have Giannis after a long playoff run from my perspective.

Italian Pride
11-28-2019, 10:16 PM
In Serbia we have 10% chance maybe

About our roster,according to sportando Donte Di Vincenzo is close to get italian passport and wants to play next summer with Italy

Katastroika
11-28-2019, 10:37 PM
In Serbia we have 10% chance maybe

About our roster,according to sportando Donte Di Vincenzo is close to get italian passport and wants to play next summer with Italy

10%? Be serious, please. This is really an underestimation. We are not that much better than Italy. The homecourt is a lot of pressure to Serbia, we often play at home worse than at neutral ground or away. Serbia - Italy is an old school classic and I really wish this game for the final. Maybe Serbia is a team that doesn't fit Italy well but Italy is a team that can beat anyone at a good day. Don't forget that Serbia will most likely miss very important players at this tournament.

And yeah, Donte is a great fit to Italian roster as he is a fine athlete and improves the team in it's most critical point - meat and muscles.

At the end, we are very happy to host Italy and Puerto Rico, two great basketball cultures in Belgrade. Dominican Republic should not be forgotten, too. A very talented team, if they manage to include Towns and Horford in their rosters they are absolutely capable of winning it all.

Italian Pride
11-28-2019, 10:45 PM
10%? Be serious, please. This is really an underestimation. We are not that much better than Italy. The homecourt is a lot of pressure to Serbia, we often play at home worse than at neutral ground or away. Serbia - Italy is an old school classic and I really wish this game for the final. Maybe Serbia is a team that doesn't fit Italy well but Italy is a team that can beat anyone at a good day. Don't forget that Serbia will most likely miss very important players at this tournament.

And yeah, Donte is a great fit to Italian roster as he is a fine athlete and improves the team in it's most critical point - meat and muscles.

At the end, we are very happy to host Italy and Puerto Rico, two great basketball cultures in Belgrade. Dominican Republic should not be forgotten, too. A very talented team, if they manage to include Towns and Horford in their rosters they are absolutely capable of winning it all.

You have the best players non American of the world in my opinioni

Teodosic,Bogdanovic,bjelica,jokic,micic,guduric,.. .

I don't think that yiur players will miss preolympic tournament at home;why do you think it?

Yes,you re right Serbia is worst fit forma US,without hackett lose our best perimeter defender

Who guard Bogdanovic,teodosic,micic and guduric ?se don t have any answers to these players,dame thing against jokic and marjanovic,se don t have Euroleague level big man,except maybe Biligha but he is so undersize

Katastroika
11-28-2019, 10:51 PM
Next summer is a critical one out of various reasons. Bogdanovic maybe will leave the Kings and sign a new contract (they gave him proposal for extension which he refused to sign initially) with a new club - if he does so, as you know the signings are beginning of July and he will miss the tournament out of that reason.

Jokic will have a deep playoff run with Denver in my opinion, I absolutely think that it's possible that they play Western Conference Finals and Denver franchise wasn't happy with him playing in China, I wrote about that. I'm pretty sure that they will try everything to tell him not to play. He was (and still is) in very bad condition and they will need for sure until new year to bring him this shape. They don't pay him 30 milions a year to come tired and exhausted to Denver in September.

For Micic and Milutinov there are big chances to go overseas next summer, so same situation like for Bogdan.

We will see, I think we will see a hugely weakened Serbian roster.

Straight forward
11-28-2019, 10:57 PM
You have the best players non American of the world in my opinioni


Please...even if he was a bit off position, we saw how he played in WC. A teenager Doncic looked more convincing in Eurobasket 2017 already. Not to mention that Doncic is better even in NBA already than Jokic. At FIBA, Bog is best Serbia's player.

Not to mention that there's also Giannis, surely better player than Jokic with all respect to Jokic who is a good freak in his own right...

Katastroika
11-28-2019, 11:08 PM
Please...even if he was a bit off position, we saw how he played in WC. A teenager Doncic looked more convincing in Eurobasket 2017 already. Not to mention that Doncic is better even in NBA already than Jokic. At FIBA, Bog is best Serbia's player.

Not to mention that there's also Giannis, surely better player than Jokic with all respect to Jokic who is a good freak in his own right...

I think he wasn't speaking about Jokic but overall about Serbia (which is of course debatable, too).

Jokic is much more made for NBA than for FIBA. But, I have to admit, I think everyone is writing him of way to early. I watch every game of Denver, he is by far not playing at 100% right now. People wil be "surprised" from after All Star break.

Straight forward
11-28-2019, 11:12 PM
I think he wasn't speaking about Jokic but overall about Serbia (which is of course debatable, too).

Jokic is much more made for NBA than for FIBA. But, I have to admit, I think everyone is writing him of way to early. I watch every game of Denver, he is by far not playing at 100% right now. People wil be "surprised" from after All Star break.

Oh, snap, I blew it. But still relevant for some.

I don't know, I also find it debatable. To me fully packed France, Spain are not much worse if any. They won it all without Rodriguez and Mirotic, well even Pau, maybe he could still move a bit.

Katastroika
11-28-2019, 11:16 PM
Oh, snap, I blew it. But still relevant for some.

I don't know, I also find it debatable. To me fully packed France, Spain are not much worse if any. They won it all without Rodriguez and Mirotic, well even Pau, maybe he could still move a bit.

I absolutely agree. In fact this rankings are for children. At top niveau everyone can beat everyone. And that's the beauty of the game. If we manage to qualify for Tokyo in Japan we will be among the stronger teams still. It's difficult for small countries as you know. This generation for sure is a good one.

Toruko
11-28-2019, 11:20 PM
10% is really too low percentage but Serbia is still the big favorite and for such a short tournament you dont need many stars, actually too many are contra productive. To be honest Italy is weak in the paint and like turkey a very good offensive team but they the team suck defensively.

I agree about Czechs on a good day they can beat all teams in the tournament. 5-6 have been playing together for years now and they have with Sato a very good play maker but they are still a talentwise limited team. What Turkey lacks the most is a good prep before big tournaments. Since 2010 no even since 2001 we had always solid player (especially the big rotation) but unfortunately we never had a complete team and prepare bad before the tournaments. Today the play maker position and our big rotation is fairly limited. After having lost Ömer Asik with a desease i think his last tournament was the last olympic qualifiers, we also lost someone like Enes Kanter because of his political views, also his brother Kerem Kanter who is playing in spain will never play for turkey.

The situation is what it is right now. Thank god (at least it is my point of view) we have very solid talents from 2002 and 2003 generation for our big rotation at least. I know that we couldnt polish most of our 95-97 generation (they started to contribute this season) but the turkish federation did a good job to help the young players taking responsibility in their teams. Hope really to see Yurtseven finally on the court with the turkey jersey. I dont trust Erden a bit but with him in a healthy status and Yurt we should be able to give all the teams a hard time.

Waiting on Ulubay, Mert Akay, Sehmus Hazer, Muhaymin Mustafa, Yavuz Gültekin, Saybir, Tarik Biberovic, Tibet Görener, Alperen Sengün, Adem Bona and many mores to take over in the following years. The turks have slept 10 years and couldnt develop any player and the turkish basketball has been paying the price since Eurobasket 2015. From 2021 on there will be no excuses for the coach and the federation...

Katastroika
11-29-2019, 08:11 PM
Turkey can build for sure a very interesting team but to me it's a little soft and dysfunctional when the best players are classical shooters or forwards. Also, personally I wouldn't put to much pressure on Yurtseven. He literally didn't play one second of senior basketball. The matchups he is facing are something completely different than he is used to. Surely a good future investment but if you call him up I wouldn't consider him playing hard minutes and expecting him being too productive. Hypothetically a lineup Larkin, Furkan, Cedi, Ilyasova and Erden is interesting but not too mobile, a little soft. I don't know, to me it seems dysfunctional a little.

I thought about Kokoskov's upcoming roster and I think he will try to chose 12 from the following: Teodosic, Micic, Jovic, Bogdanovic, Guduric, Nedovic, Marinkovic, Lucic, Micov, Bjelica, Simanic, Kaminsky, maybe Smailagic if he proves hisself, Jokic, Miliutinov, Marjanovic. There are interesting young guys to follow up but I think they will more likely play games vs. Switzerland and home games in Euro 21 qualifiers than this tournament (unfortunately). I'm pretty mad on Djordjevic that he stopped the tradition of bringing one good young player to big tournaments. That's the best we have, we will see if it's enough.

EverGreen
12-01-2019, 07:25 AM
Greece will more than likely be without Printezis, Papanikolaou and Koniaris as they declared they want the situation changed (ie the President of the Greek BF replaced or even Pitino replaced -because he's now the Panathinaikos coach) otherwise they won't play. I won't go into boring details for posters but it's power struggle stuff. Nothing will happen though and they can kick and scream all they like. Of course the players were put up to this by Oly management. Everyone is laughing in Greece making memes with a sad looking Pitino and the text reading "He will never have the chance to coach Koniaris".

Without them the initial squad will most likely be chosen from:

Sloukas, Calathes, Mantzaris, Larentzakis (some question mark because it's rumored he's already agreed with Oly), Dorsey, Pappas, Papapetrou, Giannis and Thanasis Anteto, Mitoglou, Papagiannis, Bourousis, Koufos, Chrysikopoulos, Vlado Jankovic, Mavrokefalidis and Koufos.

It looks unlikely Giannis will be able to join for the qualifying tournament as the Bucks are expected to go all the way to the NBA Final.

I have all the faith that Pitino will make us competitive to take the "Victoria" ticket.

* Agravanis might be in the squad but there are rumors he's heading back to Oly next year.
** Pappas was out under Skourtopoulos for non-playing reasons (had a fight with Bourousis) but with Pitino he'll be back.
*** Greece can choose one naturalised player between Dorsey, Mitrou- Long and Auguste.

soulis79
12-01-2019, 01:07 PM
It' too early to make such conclusions. I think that both Printezis and Papanikolaou will be in the squad. At least in the initial sauad.

Pappas did several "mistakes" in 2017 and i can't see how he will feature in Pitino's plan. Agravanis is nothing special. In addition Pitino prefers Long in favour of Dordey but i think it's unlikely to get passport at this moment. Finallt i have a feeling that Giannis will ve in the pre- Olympic no matter what.

P.S. I think the initial squad will consist no more than 14-15 players.

mojo13
12-01-2019, 03:17 PM
Long probably wouldn’t play for Greece if he’s going to face Canada. He is still in Canada’s player pool has been around the team and camps over the years. Even if he hasn’t officially played for Canada he knows the program and players quite well. I’d sit if I was in his position.


Anyways. - more and more Canadian players are coming out saying they are committed to playing. More and more of these guys are turning into legit NBA talents this year as well. Chris Boucher would be the latest example.

I’m still skeptical about a number of NBA guys. Wiggins and Trey Lyles in particular. Wiggins could just be a lost cause at this point - but he could surprise us. Dillon Brooks is a free agent and even though he says he is playing 100 percent, I am doubtful. Tristan Thompson is a free agent as well.

Other than those guys (some of them who still may play) we could get the bulk of the others. Something like:

SGA
Murray
Barrett
Powell
Olynyk

Joseph
Pangos
Alexander Walker
Boucher
Birch
Ejim
Wiltjer

Could be a hypothetical roster connsidering what has been said by players to date and Nick Nurses intent to carry a few Euro based players as well. The three listed were the vast from the WC.
Oshae Brissett said he wants to play too.
Loads of others I’m not sure of yet (have not publicly committed) like Brandon Clarke, Nik Stuaksas, Tyler Ennis, Naz Long, Marial Shayok, Lu Dort, Mfiondu Kabengele and many other euro based players to possibly select from. Personally I’d love to see Brandon Clarke run circles around some plodding euro bigs but he hasn’t played a minute of FIBA in his life.

EverGreen
12-01-2019, 04:22 PM
It' too early to make such conclusions. I think that both Printezis and Papanikolaou will be in the squad. At least in the initial sauad.

Pappas did several "mistakes" in 2017 and i can't see how he will feature in Pitino's plan. Agravanis is nothing special. In addition Pitino prefers Long in favour of Dordey but i think it's unlikely to get passport at this moment. Finallt i have a feeling that Giannis will ve in the pre- Olympic no matter what.

P.S. I think the initial squad will consist no more than 14-15 players.

What do you mean you can't see how Pappas won't feature in Pitino's plans. Pitino doesn't have an issue with him. I find it unlikely Mitrou- Long who has little professional experience will be preferred over Dorsey who has both in the NBA (100 games) and EL this year.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 04:45 PM
Canada with that team and in Canada... if they fail, that means they are the biggest loser of the world. :D

mojo13
12-01-2019, 06:21 PM
Canada with that team and in Canada... if they fail, that means they are the biggest loser of the world. :D

Like the US this summer I suppose? You know as well as I do things happen when you slam a team together that has never played together before (and many that have never played FIBA) and the chemistry isn’t quite there. And in a single game anything can happen.

I don’t see us with more than a 50 percent chance to win the tournament. We can only hope to over whelm team with superior talent as chemistry and experience we are likely going to be far behind. At least we have an excellent coach.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 06:29 PM
Well this US Team in the wc was really the fourth option. I dont see us or anyone else beating Canada in Canada when they get even one star like murray. It will be another story if they dont show up.

mojo13
12-01-2019, 06:38 PM
Well this US Team in the wc was really the fourth option. I dont see us or anyone else beating Canada in Canada when they get even one star like murray. It will be another story if they dont show up.

Didn’t matter the US team was “the fourth option”, they still had by far the most talented roster. It was bad coaching, poor chemistry, and lack of FIBA experience that did them in. The same issues (less coaching) can easily plague Canada even if we had 100 percent turnout out. That USA WC barely beat Turkey - we could not field better talent than that US team.

soulis79
12-01-2019, 06:40 PM
What do you mean you can't see how Pappas won't feature in Pitino's plans. Pitino doesn't have an issue with him. I find it unlikely Mitrou- Long who has little professional experience will be preferred over Dorsey who has both in the NBA (100 games) and EL this year.

About Dorsey i agree with you, but Pitino will decide. If Mitrou-Long receives the passport then we will see what happens. About Pappas, he was one of the main reasons why the team was a mess in Helsinki (2017). Not only because he had a quarrel with Bourousis but also he did some "stuff" during that tournament. Especially during practises and residence. Agravanis also did some "pretty" things. It would be major surprise for me if they receive a call this summer. Pitino and the Federation are aware of this.

Pitino wants to have a good atmosphere between players. Right now there are obstacles for this to happen. Let's hope that this will change.

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 09:24 PM
Not to make usagre angry, a poster that I really respect, but I thought this just a good piece to throw here:

"After Team USA’s elimination in the quarterfinals of the FIBA World Cup, Fenerbahce forward and former No. 2 draft pick Derrick Williams told Eurohoops that it “makes sense” for them to consider EuroLeague players. What do you think about that?

– “I think that it’s something that they should think about. There’s a lot of players in Europe in general, not just Americans, who can play in the NBA. You know, you go and look at the 450 NBA players. There’s a lot of guys in the NBA who wouldn’t be able to come to Europe and even play. I mean, they would get some minutes, but they wouldn’t be as successful as they think they would be. It’s definitely a game that you have to be able to translate to. And I think that we have some Americans over here who do well pretty much every year. And knowing the game of basketball in Europe would definitely help in those situations.

Especially in the summer when everybody was saying “I don’t want to play, I don’t want to play, I don’t want to play.” I think they should definitely take that route as opposed to when you have Lebron, KD, Steph (Curry) and all these guys playing. Then, maybe you don’t need to look for a European guy. But in situations like this summer, I think it would have been smart to try and bring some European Americans to play.”

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/trademarks/964679/shane-larkin-theres-a-lot-of-guys-in-the-nba-who-wouldnt-be-able-to-even-play-in-europe/2/

Furkan Korkmaz
12-01-2019, 09:29 PM
Some Eurocup benchwarmers along with semi professional and retired players are more than enough to handle a Greek squad full of experienced Euroleague players Giannis. Let that sink in until Turkey gets a meaningful result outside of home for the first time since ever..

Mahmutoglu averaged 19 points in China, Giannis only 15.
Let that sink in before you open your mouth. If even Varejao was enough to bring this overhyped Nigerian down to his knees, crying how caged he felt in fiba style basketball, Turkey surely can take care of you with a 19 point averaging “euroleague bench warmer”. Yea we’ve seen how amazing calates and sloukas are, didnt both their teams get completely destroyed in euroleague last season under their leadership? Again?

Furkan Korkmaz
12-01-2019, 09:33 PM
For the tournament in Canada I’d say
Likelihood of qualifying
70% Canada
20% Turkey
7% Czech republic
3% Greece
0% rest.

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 09:46 PM
For the tournament in Canada I’d say
Likelihood of qualifying
70% Canada
20% Turkey
7% Czech republic
3% Greece
0% rest.

More like this:

Canada 40%
Greece 40%
Czech Republic 15%
Turkey 5%

Turkey from what I've seen played rather primitive, opportunistic basketball, highly lacking PG and C. In good shooting night they can be extremely dangerous, but that's how I see the maturity and substantiality of the teams. Canada is also rather low in that regard, I wasn't convinced by Nurse uptempo, opportunistic offence in WC, but they just have immense talent and fills all positions with a sound. Since the talent is raw and newly put into project (and for most FIBA is new soil), I rank Greece (if all will show up) chances more or less at the same rate.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 09:51 PM
More like this:

Canada 40%
Greece 40%
Czech Republic 15%
Turkey 5%

Turkey from what I've seen played rather primitive, opportunistic basketball, highly lacking PG and C. In good shooting night they can be extremely dangerous, but that's how I see the maturity and substantiality of the teams. Canada is also rather low in that regard, I wasn't convinced by Nurse uptempo, opportunistic offence in WC, but they just have immense talent and fills all positions with a sound. Since the talent is raw and newly put into project, I rank Greece (if all will show up) chances more or less at the same rate.

It is called pace and space basketball with full court pressure. The whole nba has been working like that. I dont think you know much about the basketball in those countries.

Furkan Korkmaz
12-01-2019, 09:55 PM
More like this:

Canada 40%
Greece 40%
Czech Republic 15%
Turkey 5%

Turkey from what I've seen played rather primitive, opportunistic basketball, highly lacking PG and C. In good shooting night they can be extremely dangerous, but that's how I see the maturity and substantiality of the teams. Canada is also rather low in that regard, I wasn't convinced by Nurse uptempo, opportunistic offence in WC, but they just have immense talent and fills all positions with a sound.

It’s funny you hold yourself at the same standard as Canada, it immediately shows me arguing about basketball with you is futile. You have 1 measly NBA’er for crying out loud, and all he knows is run to the paint and dunk. No shooting, no shooters around him to compliment him (unless you are going to trust Nick the Brick’s shot, yeah that’s been working out great for Panathinaikos all these years). Just a limited team this Greece. Turkey has it’s flaws, hence I was realistic enough to put ourselves way below Canada, but unlike you we actually dragged the USA into overtime, or rather they dragged it into OT... You? You couldn’t even compete, and also fell to the same Czech who enjoyed their point margin cushion and defended it very well. You Greeks are always everywhere glorifying your euroleague players as the SINGLE BEST OF THE CONTINENT (Calathes etc). Or your single jannisary NBA er as the BEST IN THE WORLD (eyeroll), but I saw what I needed to see in China. Turkey with Larkin and Yurtseven will improve, our young Nbaers will also be 1 year older and more experienced to their advantage, your team? Where are the Charalampopouloses and Papagiannises? These so called super talents you Greeks claimed to be better than Korkmaz etc. you’re still playing with Printezis! You are NOT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK YOU ARE.

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 09:56 PM
It is called pace and space basketball with full court pressure. The whole nba has been working like that. I dont think you know much about the basketball in those countries.

Neither 2019 Canada, nor any Turkey in couple of years span past or future possesses NBA team talent. Pace and space can work for USA NT, maybe for fully packed Canada, but not Turkey. It's a primitive shot at FIBA, brah.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 09:57 PM
He is not greek dude. hahahahaha

But to call pace and space basketball primitive shows much lack of knowledge yes. Its the most effective way to play basketball if you can carry it out properly of course.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 10:00 PM
Neither 2019 Canada, nor any Turkey in couple of years span past or future possesses NBA team talent. Pace and space can work for USA NT, maybe for fully packed Canada, but not Turkey. It's a primitive shot at FIBA, brah.

Is ok dude. You have your opinion like Giannis will be mvp of wc 2019 :D

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 10:11 PM
But to call pace and space basketball primitive shows much lack of knowledge yes. Its the most effective way to play basketball if you can carry it out properly of course.

The originators of that style was Suns with Nash, and they had 2 ways position-less freak Shawn Marion, Stoudimire as super universal big. Now Warriors used to be the best team at it recently, but you don't even have enough shooters, you don't have proper PG and who is your stretch 5 who could play D also? Osman shot 29.4% threes, Iliasova 33.3%. Mahmutoglu and Korkmaz shot the ball well. But you ain't have enough talent (at least for now), to have a serious shot at beating fundamentally sound teams with such style.

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 10:13 PM
Is ok dude. You have your opinion like Giannis will be mvp of wc 2019 :D

Who didn't? But I was the one who said I see obvious limitations in Giannis game in FIBA while watching their friendly game (maybe first one) against Iran.

mojo13
12-01-2019, 10:15 PM
Hey Turuko - any of the Turk NBA players going to be free agents at the end of the season?


Ilyasova could be impacted by a deep run with the Bucks as well. Looks like his 20/21 salary is non guaranteed along with Korkmaz too. Not sure how much pressure that puts on them to not play.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 10:19 PM
The originators of that style was Suns with Nash, and they had 2 ways position-less freak Shawn Marion, Stoudimire as super universal big. Now Warriors used to be the best team at it recently, but you don't even have enough shooters, you don't have proper PG and who is your stretch 5 who could play D also? Osman shot 29.4% threes, Iliasova 33.3%. Mahmutoglu and Korkmaz shot the ball well. But you ain't have enough talent (at least for now), to have a serious shot at beating fundamentally sound teams with such style.

Dude, it is really a waste of time for you and for me. We just watch the games and look what happens.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 10:20 PM
Who didn't? But I was the one who said I see obvious limitations in Giannis game in FIBA while watching their friendly game (maybe first one) against Iran.

Well I was saying it. Actually I said it all the time and I was fully right. :D

Toruko
12-01-2019, 10:22 PM
Hey Turuko - any of the Turk NBA players going to be free agents at the end of the season?

There are not many so its easy to name the situations. Cedi extended his contract for more 3+1 team option a couple month ago. Furk has still 1+1 team option again (but he will definitely come), Ilyasova might be a problem though. He signed a 2+1 2 years ago and we must see how the bucks are going to react.

R1ou
12-01-2019, 10:57 PM
More like this:

Canada 40%
Greece 40%
Czech Republic 15%
Turkey 5%

Turkey from what I've seen played rather primitive, opportunistic basketball, highly lacking PG and C. In good shooting night they can be extremely dangerous, but that's how I see the maturity and substantiality of the teams. Canada is also rather low in that regard, I wasn't convinced by Nurse uptempo, opportunistic offence in WC, but they just have immense talent and fills all positions with a sound. Since the talent is raw and newly put into project (and for most FIBA is new soil), I rank Greece (if all will show up) chances more or less at the same rate.

It's only some fanatic posters that fail to see this fact, possibly hoping for an NCAA player to make a case in professional basketball for the first time in his career, some no name benchwarmers to translate into superstars and their federation to naturalize Larkin or host some tournament in the near future to have some success.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 11:03 PM
You should first look at your options. A 40 year old bourousis and a 3 year nba player who hasnt made 40 games Papagiannis. :D

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 11:05 PM
Well, Toruko has his own right to be excited about his team, but I see Turkey as 4th team in the group. And I hate naturalisation, it's just doesn't make sense to me. Americans shouldn't suddenly become Turkish or whatever, that's very lame.

Furkan Korkmaz
12-01-2019, 11:11 PM
Well, Toruko has his own right to be excited about his team, but I see Turkey as 4th team in the group. And I hate naturalisation, it's just doesn't make sense to me. Americans shouldn't suddenly become Turkish or whatever, that's very lame.

Almost as lame as the face of the Greek national team being an African illegal who acquired his Greek citizenship only at the age of 18, and hasn’t played a single second of first tier Greek basketball in his career :))? By the way, I’m pretty sure Calathes, Dorsey, Koufos etc are American too, and don’t speak a word of Greek.

We see Greece as a 4th team in the group, it’s all good... don’t know what you expect from a team that loses to Brazil but whatever xD.

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 11:14 PM
Almost as lame as the face of the Greek national team being an African illegal who acquired his Greek citizenship only at the age of 18, and hasn’t played a single second of first tier Greek basketball in his career :))? We see Greece as a 4th team in the group, it’s all good... don’t know what you expect from a team that loses to Brazil but whatever xD.

Giannis was born in Turkey and lived there for years.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 11:17 PM
Giannis was born in Turkey and lived there for years.

He was born in Turkey? Really? I knew it. The greeks abducted him, these thieves. hahahahahahahaha

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 11:20 PM
You perfectly know I meant Greece. If you find such mistakes funny, you're young, brah, and that explains why you have a tendency to make something else out of Turkey instead of taking it as it is at the moment

Furkan Korkmaz
12-01-2019, 11:21 PM
Giannis was born in Turkey and lived there for years.

You mean Greece, yeah I know, but does it change the fact he’s an illegal Nigerian who only got his papers once the Greeks noticed they could use him? And what about Calathes? He’s just as American as Larkin, who speaks just as much Turkish as Calathes does Greek :).

With Dorsey, Koufos, Calathes half the Greek team doesn’t even speak Greek, and with the Ante brothers half the squad isn’t even ethnically Greek. I wouldn’t cry about lame foreign influences if I were you... pot... kettle... black...

Toruko
12-01-2019, 11:23 PM
You perfectly know I meant Greece. If you find such mistakes funny, you're young, brah, and that explains why you have a tendency to make something else out of Turkey instead of taking it as it is at the moment

No, I really thought i could learn something from you but you disappointed me. :(

Toruko
12-01-2019, 11:25 PM
You mean Greece, yeah I know, but does it change the fact he’s an illegal Nigerian who only got his papers once the Greeks noticed they could use him? And what about Calathes? He’s just as American as Larkin, who speaks just as much Turkish as Calathes does Greek :).

Did you watch the vids where the greek reporter asked Koufos if he wants to talk in greek and he was annoyed? Or where he was explaining in greek and used 3 sentences in english after having used 3 greek words. hahahahahahahhahaha

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 11:26 PM
You mean Greece, yeah I know, but does it change the fact he’s an illegal Nigerian who only got his papers once the Greeks noticed they could use him? And what about Calathes? He’s just as American as Larkin, who speaks just as much Turkish as Calathes does Greek :).

Illegal Nigerians? Well when Europeans were shipping Africans all over the world for slavery they somehow didn't complain about illegal things. Giannis end up having Greek passport and spent most of his life in Greece. Calathes father is Greek.

Toruko
12-01-2019, 11:27 PM
Illegal Nigerians? Well when Europeans were shipping Africans all over the world for slavery they somehow didn't complain about illegal things. Giannis end up having Greek passport and spent most of his life in Greece. Calathes father is Greek.

Can you explain why he got his passport a couple years ago then? :D

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 11:30 PM
Because officials realised he can ball and thus decided to give him the citizenship status of the Polis?

Furkan Korkmaz
12-01-2019, 11:32 PM
Illegal Nigerians? Well when Europeans were shipping Africans all over the world for slavery they somehow didn't complain about illegal things. Giannis end up having Greek passport and spent most of his life in Greece. Calathes father is Greek.

What do you mean they didn’t complain about illegal things? That is something of a past generaton, ofcourse today it is widely condemned. But that’s a subject of it’s own, involving it in this is a fallacy, and not related to the current argument. You cant take out a statement with a simple what-aboutism. Your national team has many outside influences, if youmre going to cry about 1 Larkin, who already has played more first division games in Turkey than Giannis in Greece, then you should also cleanse all those Americans out of your own team. Like Toruko mentioned, these Koufoses and Calatheses can’t even give a proper interview in Greek to the Greek television.

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 11:34 PM
I'm Lithuanian, dude. I have no business to support Greece. It's simply my opinion of your group's power rankings.

Furkan Korkmaz
12-01-2019, 11:42 PM
I'm Lithuanian, dude. I have no business to support Greece. It's simply my opinion of your group's power rankings.

It would help then if you add your country’s flag, I have mistaken you for a Greek. Anyway, if you’re not Greek it further proves the likelihood of your opinion being based on too many surface observations. If you have followed these teams you’d see Turkey’s key players are mostly young and have room for improvement, Greece keeps relying on a very old and washed up core or 30+ers, and they couldn’t even beat Brazil. What makes you think now 1 year later they’re suddenly going to put up a fight against even Canada?

Maybe you are too effected by their good performance against Lithuania in the Euros..but that was an exception not their standard...(but even that team was in a better shape than the one they will come to the Olympic Q’s with).

Straight forward
12-01-2019, 11:53 PM
It would help then if you add your country’s flag, I have mistaken you for a Greek. Anyway, if you’re not Greek it further proves the likelihood of your opinion being based on too many surface observations. If you have followed these teams you’d see Turkey’s key players are mostly young and have room for improvement, Greece keeps relying on a very old and washed up core or 30+ers, and they couldn’t even beat Brazil. What makes you think now 1 year later they’re suddenly going to put up a fight against even Canada?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I think they will. FOA, they will figure it out how to use Giannis better which indicated all sort of problems and identity crisis. They have to find ways to get all Giannis, Sloukas, Calathes to get the best of playing together. SOA, Sloukas is their best guard scorer and he had injuries before WC thus was without proper preparation and was out of shape to some degree. Brothers are growing players, Papagianis is growing player. Brazil didn't suck in WC.

Turkey was also swept by Chezch Rep and lost to New Zealand, but you don't think Turkey is some trash team because of that. I never said Turkey is a bad team, but I'm not a favourite of the style you played in WC, shots were being jacked too liberally, to quickly. Too much forced plays and no proper PG who could control the tempo and give identity. I know you have talent and more is coming, you have good youngsters, but it will take time. I'm not a big specialist of Turkish BB, so take it as an outsiders opinion, I surely didn't mean do disrespect your NT, you can be sure about that.

Furkan Korkmaz
12-02-2019, 12:05 AM
Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I think they will. FOA, they will figure it out how to use Giannis better which indicated all sort of problems and identity crisis. They have to find ways to get all Giannis, Sloukas, Calathes to get the best of playing together. SOA, Sloukas is their best guard scorer and he had injuries before WC thus was without proper preparation and was out of shape to some degree. Brothers are growing players, Papagianis is growing player. Brazil didn't suck in WC.

Turkey was also swept by Chezch Rep and lost to New Zealand, but you don't think Turkey is some trash team because of that. I never said Turkey is a bad team, but I'm not a favourite of the style you played in WC, shots were being jacked too liberally, to quickly. Too much forced plays and no proper PG who could control the tempo and give identity. I know you have talent and more is coming, you have good youngsters, but it will take time. I'm not a big specialist of Turkish BB, so take it as an outsiders opinion, I surely didn't mean do disrespect your NT, you can be sure about that.

The Czech were overall very consistent, they ended above Lithuania too you know, however our mentality was fragile after we ruined our chances against the USA, we played our worst game against the Czech mostly for that reason. I know had this match come before the Americans we would beat the Czech, like we did last year in this tournament in Germany. The Czech were also quite good there, even had Vesely, but lost to us in the final.
Forget New Zealand, both Ilyasova and Korkmaz were out that game, even one of our centers was injured. It’s not a proper indicative match.

“They will use giannis better” is really nothing more than a hypothesis, what if Giannis is this perpetually limited player? Giannis will be playing in the NBA untill mid june, you think he will even have time to prepare with his team and new coach? The reason they cannot use Giannis is because they don’t have shooters around him, and giannis himself admit to feeling trapped in fiba style basketball, this isn’t about how he is used. This is about his playstyle, and this wont change in a matter of practices.

Toruko
12-02-2019, 12:09 AM
Because officials realised he can ball and thus decided to give him the citizenship status of the Polis?

Exactly, he became from being an illegal immigrant to successor of leonidas the great over night. :D

Ok, enough of this trolling. Everyone needs to draw the red line for himself. Fact is Fiba gives opportunity for one naturalized player. I dont like it too but most of the countries uses this possibility and Greece will too in the future. My red line is as long as the player is your product and presents the game of your basketball culture everything is ok.

About the upcomming game between Greece and Turkey and the future. Turkey is still in a generational change and of course very young. It has very promising young players who will be added in the future. And the same process awaits greece and Giannis is a luck for them because they couldnt raise any prospect who could take over the inheritance of the pick and role guys from the top Diamantidis, Papaloukas and Spanoulis and there are really few guys who could make the jump in pro business. I like for instance Karampelas very much, Tsoumanis also Kalaitzakis who made the jump in the right time and also Rogkavopoulos.

The turkish prospects are bigger from the number and look at the tournament rankings also more talented guys. On the other hand turkey is the best country to waste talents but there is at least hope and they definitely learned from their mistakes.

Both teams turkey as well as Greece has weaknesses and advantages. Greece has more experience for sure and has been playing together for years right now. Turkey has some NBA player who start to prosper in the nba right now. Furkan Korkmaz for example takes 25 minutes with a title contender in the nba. A great scorer who needs to add at least 10 more pounds, Cedi is a great allrounder who was really out of shape during the wc. He cant do anything great but there is also nothing he cant do on the court except defending all positions from 1-4 plus scottie wilbekin who was injured in the start of the wc. He is one of the best shooting scorer in europe right now. Melih Mahmutoglu the same although his ability is more limited compared to Korkmaz or Wilbekin. Not to forget Ilyasova who is a exceptional shooting big with very good position knowledge and intelligence to defend very well on nba level. When you guys take a look at the results in the wc you will see that there is no problem with scoring.

The weaknesses are unfortunately where we were the strongest in early days. Semih Erden who is absolutely not willing to play serious basketball is our starting big right now. The positive think in comparison to the wc he was injured and our second center Sertac Sanli started to contribute with efes in Euroleague. In addition to that we have also a 98 born first round draftee big Ömer Yurtseven, slow footed seven footer whos strength his offensive versatility is. For the guys who questioned him... he is nba ready and could without doubt deliver in euroleague double digits.

I cant say which side will have the upper hand. With Giannis Greece will have a small advantage but the trend is clear... starting with this tournament Turkey will get stronger each year and greece will lose power and for the guys who used to accuse me to hate greece or greeks it is really my objective thoughts. Nothing else. I am a diamantidis lover for example. :D

Toruko
12-02-2019, 12:18 AM
And there is no better use for Giannis in international games. He is quite limited if you block the paint what will be happen all the time because nobody will let him speed up. The only way to use him offensively is just making some shots.

Straight forward
12-02-2019, 12:21 AM
“They will use giannis better” is really nothing more than a hypothesis, what if Giannis is this perpetually limited player? Giannis will be playing in the NBA untill mid june, you think he will even have time to prepare with his team and new coach? The reason they cannot use Giannis is because they don’t have shooters around him, and giannis himself admit to feeling trapped in fiba style basketball, this isn’t about how he is used. This is about his playstyle, and this wont change in a matter of practices.

Never judge the team from one tournament. Greece was third in three pts % in Eurobasket 2017. Sloukas was shooting 58.6%. In 2019 WC Greece really shot the ball worse than they can. Look at EL season, Papanicolaou 42.9%, Papapetrou 45.9%, Calathes 43.2%, Sloukas 40.6%. Even Giannis slowly improve his shooting, his brother can shoot. There's little doubt Greece will shoot better. If they will click, they still are legit FIBA power.

R1ou
12-02-2019, 02:31 AM
Can you explain why he got his passport a couple years ago then? :D

Well that's something I'm totally against it, every kid born and raised here should be able to have the passport.

But let's not forget what Turkey has done with Ilyasova who faked his age, name and nationality or the likes of Ermal Kuqo, Mirsad Jahovic and recently Tarik Biberovic and Adem Bona. Non of them where either born or raised in Turkey. Not to mention Dixon, Preldizc and Wilbekin. Not connected to Turkey by birth or roots.

Talking about roots get a look to which language is Hedo Turkoglu fluent btw. In order to help you recently a Bosnian friend on mine told me Turkey offered 1 million dollars to Dzanan Musa when he was younger in order to play for them. They got Biberovic instead.

R1ou
12-02-2019, 02:33 AM
Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I think they will. FOA, they will figure it out how to use Giannis better which indicated all sort of problems and identity crisis. They have to find ways to get all Giannis, Sloukas, Calathes to get the best of playing together. SOA, Sloukas is their best guard scorer and he had injuries before WC thus was without proper preparation and was out of shape to some degree. Brothers are growing players, Papagianis is growing player. Brazil didn't suck in WC.

Turkey was also swept by Chezch Rep and lost to New Zealand, but you don't think Turkey is some trash team because of that. I never said Turkey is a bad team, but I'm not a favourite of the style you played in WC, shots were being jacked too liberally, to quickly. Too much forced plays and no proper PG who could control the tempo and give identity. I know you have talent and more is coming, you have good youngsters, but it will take time. I'm not a big specialist of Turkish BB, so take it as an outsiders opinion, I surely didn't mean do disrespect your NT, you can be sure about that.

As I said earlier there's simply not enough objectivity amongst some guys. Turkey might have 2 victories out of the last 20 against Greece, not more quality neither the home court advantage to favor them. First goal should be to take the revenge against the Czechf for them.

Toruko
12-02-2019, 03:07 AM
Well that's something I'm totally against it, every kid born and raised here should be able to have the passport.

But let's not forget what Turkey has done with Ilyasova who faked his age, name and nationality or the likes of Ermal Kuqo, Mirsad Jahovic and recently Tarik Biberovic and Adem Bona. Non of them where either born or raised in Turkey. Not to mention Dixon, Preldizc and Wilbekin. Not connected to Turkey by birth or roots.

Talking about roots get a look to which language is Hedo Turkoglu fluent btw. In order to help you recently a Bosnian friend on mine told me Turkey offered 1 million dollars to Dzanan Musa when he was younger in order to play for them. They got Biberovic instead.

Being born in a country doesnt make you citizen of that country. I am also not born in Turkey. Am I not a Turk now? Everyone can decide the rules for himself when to count a player his or her. Ilyasova is a Tatar from Usbekistan which is a turkic tribe, same goes to Yurt who is just born there.

Another part are the bosniaks. They feel connected to turkey because of having family in turkey, because of religion and historical connection. Hedo Turkoglu, Mirsad Türkcan are just two of many guys and i can assure you that Turkoglus bosniak language knowledge is quite rudimentary.

The information about Dzanan Musa is correct. He was offered to play for Turkey before he started to play his first U16 game but Biberovic was not asked. He decided not to play for Bosnia by himself due to a better perspective etc. His father wanted also that he plays for Turkey. Adem Bona has been developing in Turkey, so I count him as a turkish product. He and the Antetokoumpos differ nothing so being born somewhere means nothing. Both are nigerian rooted greeks or turk who got their basketball education in different countries.

Toruko
12-02-2019, 03:15 AM
As I said earlier there's simply not enough objectivity amongst some guys. Turkey might have 2 victories out of the last 20 against Greece, not more quality neither the home court advantage to favor them. First goal should be to take the revenge against the Czechf for them.

The past situation doesnt say anything about the current situation. Greece was a powerhouse earlier and always respected. Today, its just an old ,averagely skilled team that nobody has to fear. The sad thing is that you wont be able to substitute your losses in the following years. There are a couple of guys who could play at that level and they dont play much.

EverGreen
12-02-2019, 08:39 AM
Well that's something I'm totally against it, every kid born and raised here should be able to have the passport.

But let's not forget what Turkey has done with Ilyasova who faked his age, name and nationality or the likes of Ermal Kuqo, Mirsad Jahovic and recently Tarik Biberovic and Adem Bona. Non of them where either born or raised in Turkey. Not to mention Dixon, Preldizc and Wilbekin. Not connected to Turkey by birth or roots.

Talking about roots get a look to which language is Hedo Turkoglu fluent btw. In order to help you recently a Bosnian friend on mine told me Turkey offered 1 million dollars to Dzanan Musa when he was younger in order to play for them. They got Biberovic instead.

You beat me to it.

Respect to Cro, Srb and Lith who never used naturalised players.

Mindozas
12-02-2019, 09:35 AM
You beat me to it.

Respect to Cro, Srb and Lith who never used naturalised players.

Croatia had couple of them: Draper, Lafayette. Probably only Lithuania and Serbia didn't. Maybe some China too, they were quite strict what comes to naturalization, at least what comes to bball and football, but with latter they broke that rule and naturalized Brazilian Elkeson lately, not sure about bball, don't remember such case.
Overall naturalization has been hot topic over the years and everyone has own opinion. I hate it, unless player is born in that country or was born to parents (or one parent) living abroad, maybe I can go to grandparents at most here, anything else is just cheating and not how national teams competition should look like. With "cheating" I don't blame federations, which takes advantage out of rules, but FIBA itself for allowing it. But again, it's very subjective

Levenspiel
12-02-2019, 11:34 AM
Being born in a country doesnt make you citizen of that country. I am also not born in Turkey. Am I not a Turk now? Everyone can decide the rules for himself when to count a player his or her. Ilyasova is a Tatar from Usbekistan which is a turkic tribe, same goes to Yurt who is just born there.

Another part are the bosniaks. They feel connected to turkey because of having family in turkey, because of religion and historical connection. Hedo Turkoglu, Mirsad Türkcan are just two of many guys and i can assure you that Turkoglus bosniak language knowledge is quite rudimentary.

The information about Dzanan Musa is correct. He was offered to play for Turkey before he started to play his first U16 game but Biberovic was not asked. He decided not to play for Bosnia by himself due to a better perspective etc. His father wanted also that he plays for Turkey. Adem Bona has been developing in Turkey, so I count him as a turkish product. He and the Antetokoumpos differ nothing so being born somewhere means nothing. Both are nigerian rooted greeks or turk who got their basketball education in different countries.
There needs to be a line somewhere; being a member of a Turkic tribe, or having warm feelings towards Turkey does not cut it. Ilyasova, Mirsad, Kuqo, Dal, Pars, Preldzic, Dixon, Wilbekin, etc etc are all welcome from my personal point of view to become a Turkish citizen, some of them have chosen Turkey not only for professional reasons, but they are all naturalized players, and FIBA should count them within the limitation of the rule (Same thing with ancestry rules of Calathes, Kaman, etc.)

Turkoglu, Okur, Mahmutoglu etc are Turkish, period. Their grand-grand-grand parents were Bosnian, but they are all as Turkish as Larry Bird is American.

Kanter, Yurtseven, etc are Turkish players born to Turkish parents abroad.

Adem Bona case is cheating in a way, which will probably be the hot topic here in a few years, just wait :).

Levenspiel
12-02-2019, 12:04 PM
Having quickly browsing the thread, I was not surprised to see, sadly, the same old/same old thrash talk.

I really don't know what to expect from our team, nor from the other teams in the group. Czechs showed us and everyone else how dangerous they can be, Canada always excites first but then deflates 1 week before the tournament, Greece has not been able to do anything in ages, Turkey is a team of bunch of nobodies + 2-3 decent guys who cannot make FTs. That's a recipe for an exciting tournament. My guess is we're not making it.

Toruko
12-02-2019, 01:22 PM
There needs to be a line somewhere; being a member of a Turkic tribe, or having warm feelings towards Turkey does not cut it. Ilyasova, Mirsad, Kuqo, Dal, Pars, Preldzic, Dixon, Wilbekin, etc etc are all welcome from my personal point of view to become a Turkish citizen, some of them have chosen Turkey not only for professional reasons, but they are all naturalized players, and FIBA should count them within the limitation of the rule (Same thing with ancestry rules of Calathes, Kaman, etc.)

Turkoglu, Okur, Mahmutoglu etc are Turkish, period. Their grand-grand-grand parents were Bosnian, but they are all as Turkish as Larry Bird is American.

Kanter, Yurtseven, etc are Turkish players born to Turkish parents abroad.

Adem Bona case is cheating in a way, which will probably be the hot topic here in a few years, just wait :).
There is no cheating if you dont play against the rules. Almost every nt used naturalized player or "cheated" in a way. Take Mirotic or Ibaka for Spain, Randolph for Slovenia and also Greece was trying to get Pokusevski or Vukcevic. You are either attractive to player or not, thats the main line of this story.

juli_rc
12-02-2019, 01:41 PM
I hope this was an attempt at humor. If not here’s a little exercise for you, list their statistics in the NBA during that season and now and let me know what results you find.

Humor? Why? If 9 of 12 players are playing in the NBA, it is a team formed with NBA players. As much as they are the 14th or 15th player of their respective team.

Before the tournament began, people said that the Canadian team was going to win every game by a margin of 20 points. They were going to the Olympic games walking through the opponents.

Apparently, just having players in the NBA made Canada an elite team ...

About your query, it is not necessary to do it. Of those players, those who continue to play in the NBA, surely improved their numbers. Logically, the team of the following year will be a team with more experience than in 2015.

But that is no guarantee of anything.

Toruko
12-02-2019, 01:56 PM
Humor? Why? If 9 of 12 players are playing in the NBA, it is a team formed with NBA players. As much as they are the 14th or 15th player of their respective team.

Before the tournament began, people said that the Canadian team was going to win every game by a margin of 20 points. They were going to the Olympic games walking through the opponents.

Apparently, just having players in the NBA made Canada an elite team ...

About your query, it is not necessary to do it. Of those players, those who continue to play in the NBA, surely improved their numbers. Logically, the team of the following year will be a team with more experience than in 2015.

But that is no guarantee of anything.

Even if they are just bench guys in the nba, they are elite in euroleague. Just look at Larkin, Wanamaker etc. You play every second day a 48 minutes game, get used to crunch times, work on your body permanently and your individual skills... The only thing what make you worse with many NBA players is team chemistry and not clear definitions of the roles. Roles are the most important thing in basketball.

Katastroika
12-02-2019, 02:01 PM
It's not that easy.

I think that there is no clear answer to the question if a rotation player in NBA is more valuable for his national team than a leader in Euroleague. Also the conception of Euroleague teams is sometimes likely to be mistaken for analysis. We discussed Micic's case quite well the last time. Also I think that Jokic's case shows that sometimes NBA superstars are not that valuable in FIBA (other way around).

The most important thing in FIBA basketball is DEFENSE - DEFENSE and DEFENSE in tournaments - and especially in tournaments like this where you have literally 3 do or die games (at least 2)! And it will stay like this forever. And that's where we have to see if Canada can compete with Greece, Czech Republic and improved Turkey. In Victoria I expect games with results like 65-64 and 70 - 68 from semis further upcoming.

Toruko
12-02-2019, 02:07 PM
It's not that easy.

I think that there is no clear answer to the question if a rotation player in NBA is more valuable for his national team than a leader in Euroleague. Also the conception of Euroleague teams is sometimes likely to be mistaken for analysis. We discussed Micic's case quite well the last time. Also I think that Jokic's case shows that sometimes NBA superstars are not that valuable in FIBA (other way around).

The most important thing in FIBA basketball is DEFENSE - DEFENSE and DEFENSE in tournaments - and especially in tournaments like this where you have literally 3 do or die games (at least 2)! And it will stay like this forever. And that's where we have to see if Canada can compete with Greece, Czech Republic and improved Turkey. In Victoria I expect games with results like 65-64 and 70 - 68 from semis further upcoming.

You are at least a rotation player in the nba if you are elite in Euroleague.

Katastroika
12-02-2019, 02:13 PM
You are at least a rotation player in the nba if you are elite in Euroleague.

Not necessarily, but those are exceptions that prove the rule (both ways around).

Only thing I want to state is that NBA supremacy, leadership is quite often something taken for granted and as a factor of stability for national teams. But it more often doesn't work than it works. Same for Euroleague. Players became stars in NBA without playing 1 minute Euroleague going over from Europe and players from NBA didn't adapt well. It's not always that easy to declare factors in basketball.

I agree on your statement with role management btw, forgot to mention that. It's a heavily underestimated factor in short summers. Talent loaded teams often suffer because of this.

usagre
12-02-2019, 02:34 PM
This isn’t the ‘80’s or ‘90’s anymore. There are plenty of EuroLeague players that can make today’s NBA rosters. That’s not an issue anymore. The distinction now is whether they can be 20+ minute guys. When we talk about what Canada can potentially put on the court this summer is a different story. They can basically field a starting lineup with 30+ minute guys and and a bench/ second unit of 20-30 minute NBA guys.
Not just token NBA roster guys.

EverGreen
12-02-2019, 02:37 PM
There is no cheating if you dont play against the rules. Almost every nt used naturalized player or "cheated" in a way. Take Mirotic or Ibaka for Spain, Randolph for Slovenia and also Greece was trying to get Pokusevski or Vukcevic. You are either attractive to player or not, thats the main line of this story.

Milan Tomic, Dusan Jelic, Franko Nakic were all eligible by Fiba rules to play for Greece but were never called up on order of Vasilakopoulos because he felt it would be poaching of Serbian players and he didn't want to sour the relationship between Greek and Jugoslavian/ Serbian basketball federations. Vlado Jankovic on the other hand chose to play for Greece since he lived in the Greece from the age of 5. The Adeto bros knew no other country than Greece. They had never been to Nigeria.

The rest in Calathes (grandfather), Koufos (both parents held Greek citizenship before moving to Australia and then USA), Bramos (grandfather), August (mother), Mitrou (mother) are Greek. Last year Calathes visited distant relatives on the island of Limnos for the first time.

Pokusevski is a foreigner. He's chosen to play for Serbia and will not be granted Greek citizenship.

Toruko
12-02-2019, 02:52 PM
Milan Tomic, Dusan Jelic, Franko Nakic were all eligible by Fiba rules to play for Greece but were never called up on order of Vasilakopoulos because he felt it would be poaching of Serbian players and he didn't want to sour the relationship between Greek and Jugoslavian/ Serbian basketball federations. Vlado Jankovic on the other hand chose to play for Greece since he lived in the Greece from the age of 5. The Adeto bros knew no other country than Greece. They had never been to Nigeria.

Oh dont get me wrong. For me the Antetokoumpos are Greeks. As you said they dont know anything else than Greece and also learned the basics of basketball in Greece so i wasnt criticizing. My point was the critics Turkey would "steal" players or naturalizes them although many countries does it too. Self critics are important but not to the absurd. FIBA sets the rules and you play accordingly.

I guess it is some kind of inferiority complex but there is no need for that. Turkey rises normally very capable basketball player who were very successful on NBA level and other guys will follow for sure.

mojo13
12-02-2019, 05:09 PM
Humor? Why? If 9 of 12 players are playing in the NBA, it is a team formed with NBA players. As much as they are the 14th or 15th player of their respective team.

Before the tournament began, people said that the Canadian team was going to win every game by a margin of 20 points. They were going to the Olympic games walking through the opponents.

Apparently, just having players in the NBA made Canada an elite team ...

About your query, it is not necessary to do it. Of those players, those who continue to play in the NBA, surely improved their numbers. Logically, the team of the following year will be a team with more experience than in 2015.

But that is no guarantee of anything.


Funny thing is that Canada won 8 of 10 games in the 2015 Americas by a 20-30+ plus margin with a very young and inexperienced team. Until they got caught in a rugby match in the semis with Venezuela where everything that could go wrong went wrong for Canada.
Anthony Bennett and Nik Stuaskas (both starters) had food poisoning and spent the days prior and morning of the game in the hospital (others were rumored to be ill as well) Both tried to play but clearly couldn’t. A bunch of 20-23 year olds and a bad coach got caught by really rough and tough game plan that the Latin refs totally allowed and it still came down to a last second phantom call by a Latin ref to give Venezuela the win. Honestly, rewatch that game - it was before the breakway unsportmanlike foul. On almost every breakaway or fastbreak with numbers advantage Canada had, a Venezuelan scrub just grabbed the Canadian player (with no play on the ball). It was within the rules at the time (and a smart game plan) but it was ugly, rough and partially why the rules were changed.

But I guess you missed a bunch of very young end of the bench NBA nobody’s drop 30 point wins on everyone but Argentina (1st game of the tournament with very little practice and exhibition games) and the 2nd Venezuela rugby match . In between Canada was in fact cake walking to the Olympics but in the beauty and pain of sports they got caught. It was an epic choke and a wonderful gameplan by Coach Nestor (and finely executed by the Venezuelans) on perhaps a arrogant Canadian team that ran Venezuela off the court in their first match). But that team is nothing compared to what we can field today - I mean 20 yr old Nik Stuaskas was the 2nd leading scorer. Anthony Bennett was a key starter (and was pretty good actually).

It was a painful loss for Canada but they were clearly the best or 2nd best team in that tournament by a long margin.

mojo13
12-02-2019, 10:28 PM
I don't know what is going on but Trey Lyles even came out today on Twitter to publicly declare his intent to play. He is the last guy I would have expected to do this. He hasnt touched the Canadian program since the U19 Worlds in 2013.
This is now almost everyone (except Wiggins and Thompson, who is a FA) has publicly declared there intent to play.
It is getting weird honestly - I can only think how the Aussies sold $1500 tickets to their exhibition series with the USA by telling everyone Harden, Curry, Lebron Simmons etc would be playing.

I am not looking forward to seeing ticket prices when they come out.

I hope this is not all BS.

usagre
12-03-2019, 01:47 AM
@mojo13

I think the most realistic scenario for Canada is that about half of the top elite 10-12 guys play in Victoria and if they get through I think the other half join them in Tokyo for a full squad.

soulis79
12-03-2019, 11:57 AM
On the other hand i believe that Nurse will fill a team with 6-7 NBA players if possible, Pangos, Ejim, perhaps Wiltjer, one Scrubb or Stauskas and a youngster.

What about Wiggins? Is he available at the moment?

mojo13
12-03-2019, 05:13 PM
On the other hand i believe that Nurse will fill a team with 6-7 NBA players if possible, Pangos, Ejim, perhaps Wiltjer, one Scrubb or Stauskas and a youngster.

What about Wiggins? Is he available at the moment?

You are correct - Nick Nurse has the experience and respect for FIBA basketball and talked very highly of Wiltjer and Pangos during the World Cup. He has gone on record saying the FIBA players will very likely have a place on any roster going forward. Who and how many is unknown - personally I'd like to see 2-4. With Pangos, Wiltjer and Ejim as most likely. Stauskas would now be much more interesting with a year of EuroLeague under his belt and his valuable shooting role. However, Stauskas has not been involved with the national team since 2015. All four of the names above could fit well into bench roles.

If these public declarations are true - we could easily field 12 NBA players. But I think most here understand that may not make the best "team". Like you - I still think only 7-9 NBA guys actually show up and the Euro-based players will be on the roster because they will be the best players available. Regardless they are better than some of the very young, end of bench NBA players anyways like Nickeil Alexander Walker, Mfiondu Kabengele, Oshae Brisett, Naz Mitrou Long, Lu Dort, Ignas Brazdeikis and others.


Andrew Wiggins is still an enigma. He has been "available" to Canada for many years now but has chosen not to participate. There has been some bad blood narrowly reported between him and Canada Basketball over the years by some Canadian media, but how true that is I don't know. With Nick Nurse as the coach the thought was this was water under the bridge. Wiggins was asked in the summer if was he going to paly the WC, and when he said no, he said he wanted to play in the Olympics. Will he finally show up? No Canadian knows but him. I'm not counting on it - I had pretty much written him off (Trey Lyles too) without worrying too much about his loss, until this season - as he is finally showing himself to be a capable NBA player. Prior to this season I viewed him as just another poor efficiency scorer with terrible defense and no passing and a bad fit for FIBA. If this season keeps up - I'd really like to see him with the national team.

So far he is one of the few that has not gone on the record saying he wants to play in June.

usagre
12-03-2019, 05:25 PM
Canadian Dream team 2020

Murray
Gilgeous-Alexander
Wiggins
Olynyk
Thompson

Joseph
Brooks
Barrett
Clarke
Powell
Lyles
Mojo13 as 12th man

Toruko
12-03-2019, 05:53 PM
Canadian Dream team 2020

Murray
Gilgeous-Alexander
Wiggins
Olynyk
Thompson

Joseph
Brooks
Barrett
Clarke
Powell
Lyles
Mojo13 as 12th man

Murray is a pg? I always thought he is a big because i see him always make the screen for Jokic. hahahahahahahahha

juli_rc
12-03-2019, 06:03 PM
Funny thing is that Canada won 8 of 10 games in the 2015 Americas by a 20-30+ plus margin with a very young and inexperienced team. Until they got caught in a rugby match in the semis with Venezuela where everything that could go wrong went wrong for Canada.
Anthony Bennett and Nik Stuaskas (both starters) had food poisoning and spent the days prior and morning of the game in the hospital (others were rumored to be ill as well) Both tried to play but clearly couldn’t. A bunch of 20-23 year olds and a bad coach got caught by really rough and tough game plan that the Latin refs totally allowed and it still came down to a last second phantom call by a Latin ref to give Venezuela the win. Honestly, rewatch that game - it was before the breakway unsportmanlike foul. On almost every breakaway or fastbreak with numbers advantage Canada had, a Venezuelan scrub just grabbed the Canadian player (with no play on the ball). It was within the rules at the time (and a smart game plan) but it was ugly, rough and partially why the rules were changed.

But I guess you missed a bunch of very young end of the bench NBA nobody’s drop 30 point wins on everyone but Argentina (1st game of the tournament with very little practice and exhibition games) and the 2nd Venezuela rugby match . In between Canada was in fact cake walking to the Olympics but in the beauty and pain of sports they got caught. It was an epic choke and a wonderful gameplan by Coach Nestor (and finely executed by the Venezuelans) on perhaps a arrogant Canadian team that ran Venezuela off the court in their first match). But that team is nothing compared to what we can field today - I mean 20 yr old Nik Stuaskas was the 2nd leading scorer. Anthony Bennett was a key starter (and was pretty good actually).

It was a painful loss for Canada but they were clearly the best or 2nd best team in that tournament by a long margin.

Canada was the 3th best team! i think it was the best production for Canada in the last 15 years!

Too many excuses! Poisoning, referees, youth, coaching staff ...
If next year they fail again, will the excuse be the pressure to play at home?

mojo13
12-03-2019, 07:11 PM
Canada was the 3th best team! i think it was the best production for Canada in the last 15 years!

Too many excuses! Poisoning, referees, youth, coaching staff ...
If next year they fail again, will the excuse be the pressure to play at home?

If you really think Venezuela had a better team than Canada I don't know what else to tell you. Canada was +135 (6-1) after group play Venezuela was -6 (3-4). I question if you even watched any non-Argentina games. It was pretty clear Canada would have won 9 games out of 10 versus Venezuela, but they caught us when it counted (it was a massive upset and VEN should be celebrated for it). But that's sports. Everything mentioned above are real variables that impacted the game. And really this is why we love the game - or maybe you'd rather look at a roster a declare a winner without games even being played? The last time Canada played Venezuela (WC Qualifying) it was a 40 point victory for Canada who was without any NBA players. Its been a long time since 2015 but these two programs are not on equal footing.

It really was a massive loss for Canada and something we have been trying to overcome ever since. There is no doubt it set the program back many years. Players soured on the experience, supposedly its why Wiggins and Stauskas haven't played since. If they won and went on to the Olympics, momentum surely would have built with more and more participation from players. Probably a very different situation from where we are now, playing the "what if" game.



Time to move on from what happened in 2015 please....

Toruko
12-08-2019, 09:32 PM
I just read that Rick PitiNO wants Spanoulis in the national team of Greece. He must have impressed Rick in the last Euroleague game. :D

Papaloukas and Diamantidis also could play each 1 Quarter if you ask me...

Katastroika
12-12-2019, 12:29 PM
What are your guys thinkings of Tibor Pleiss? As far as I know he has very bad relations with German federation but he is a legitimate option for the Germans. IMHO maybe even a better one than Theiss or Voigtmann. He looks sloppy sometimes but he looks very good in Efes this year. In my opinion his an Sanli's good game is way underrated because everything is focused on the three guard stars.

If I would be Rodl I would try to ensure Tibor coming to the training camp of Germany. Germany is under the radar again but for me again a team that can win it all in Split.

soulis79
12-12-2019, 02:10 PM
Pleiss had several problems with coach Flemming. Now it seems that there is a communication with coach Rodl. He gave an interview recently. I believe his style of play fits well on FIBA basketball and it would be a wise for the federation to include him at the national call up.

Toruko
12-14-2019, 05:34 PM
What are your guys thinkings of Tibor Pleiss? As far as I know he has very bad relations with German federation but he is a legitimate option for the Germans. IMHO maybe even a better one than Theiss or Voigtmann. He looks sloppy sometimes but he looks very good in Efes this year. In my opinion his an Sanli's good game is way underrated because everything is focused on the three guard stars.

If I would be Rodl I would try to ensure Tibor coming to the training camp of Germany. Germany is under the radar again but for me again a team that can win it all in Split.

Germans have many many options in the big rotation. Starting with Theiss, Kleber, Voigtmann, Zirbes even Barthel and then very promising young guys like Moritz Wagner and Hartenstein who is one of the top 3 european center prospects. Pleiss time is over with the german nt.

On the other hand with Schröder as your main pg you cant win anything and the team sucks in shooting guard position. Nils Giffey or Carsten Tada is not an option. Maybe with Len Schoormann Germany can become a real threat to bigger teams.

Katastroika
12-15-2019, 02:38 PM
Germans have many many options in the big rotation. Starting with Theiss, Kleber, Voigtmann, Zirbes even Barthel and then very promising young guys like Moritz Wagner and Hartenstein who is one of the top 3 european center prospects. Pleiss time is over with the german nt.

On the other hand with Schröder as your main pg you cant win anything and the team sucks in shooting guard position. Nils Giffey or Carsten Tada is not an option. Maybe with Len Schoormann Germany can become a real threat to bigger teams.

I know Zirbes + and - very well and can declare Pleiss a much better player without any problem. The Germans can afford to take one young player to the tournament but not multiple and looking at the conception at other participants roster's of their tournament I would seriously avoid taking a center like Hartenstein to the tournament that never proved anything except playing good in Zalgiris' youth system. I even saw him live at Germany - Serbia game, he looked bad, but it's now almost 2 years since then, he surely improved and his body did grow.

I am very sceptical about Wagner, his strenghts are spacing. You cannot win this tournament in Split with stretch options. I am curious about Pleiss rebounding qualities (maybe you are, too and that's the point out of your argumentation - the statistics are quite schizophrenic in this segment) but even in there I don't think he is anything worse than Voigtmann. Barthel is not an option for C, Kleber could be in some short periods (they played in China some minutes with Kleber at 5, it didn't work out well) but anyway all around he could be the player that fits them the most.

I'm just speaking about C spot and Pleiss specially, the other positions are quite secured as they lack depth at guard spots.

Toruko
12-16-2019, 01:06 AM
I know Zirbes + and - very well

Of course you do since he played a couple years in Serbia and I also agree in that point that Pleiss is more useful...


I even saw him live at Germany - Serbia game, he looked bad, but it's now almost 2 years since then, he surely improved and his body did grow.

You are right about Barthel but Pleiss would be clearly after Theiss and Kleber for sure and probably also after Voigtmann. Pleiss biggest strength is his deadly mid ranger. I never saw him failing taking shots from mid range and he is also able to take some clear shots from 3 pointer. Problems on the other hand... lateral quickness, rim protection is not good and he lacks aggressiveness. We are talking about a guy who seems to be behind Sertac Sanli in the Efes rotation :D

I would be very surprised if he sees any minute in german nt jersey from now on.

I consider Hartenstein as a high prospect. Very good rebounder, much much better than pleiss, stronger, more agile with a good aggressiveness. Saw couple games in g-league Houstons G - League team won the G - League if i am not mistaken. Nevertheless he is clearly behind Wagner since Wagner takes time in the nba.

Toruko
12-16-2019, 01:10 AM
Turkeys president himself talked about the larkin issue and said that larkin is gonna get the turkish passport so i am sure to see him in Canada with the turkish nt jersey.

mojo13
12-16-2019, 07:56 AM
I thought Scottie Wilbeken was the purchased American mini-guard? Why by another?


Seriously though - what happened to Wilbekin? Is Larkin that much of an upgrade?

okanial
12-16-2019, 08:57 AM
I thought Scottie Wilbeken was the purchased American mini-guard? Why by another?


Seriously though - what happened to Wilbekin? Is Larkin that much of an upgrade?

Wilbekin is an average point guard. Larkin is currently the best player playing in Europe. It is a really really big upgrade. Im also pretty sure he will try to showcase himself in Canada to get a good contract in NBA next season so that is a plus as well. I believe Larkin increases our odds drastically

Levenspiel
12-16-2019, 10:15 AM
I thought Scottie Wilbeken was the purchased American mini-guard? Why by another?


Seriously though - what happened to Wilbekin? Is Larkin that much of an upgrade?
Wait, that's not all. I hear we are after Justise Winslow, too, whose father is a Turkish citizen.

btw, I really like Wilbekin, but Larkin choice is a no-brainer.

Katastroika
12-16-2019, 10:21 AM
Wait, that's not all. I hear we are after Justise Winslow, too, whose father is a Turkish citizen.

btw, I really like Wilbekin, but Larkin choice is a no-brainer.

Isn't that a little too much? I have no moral standards but do you guys really like that half your starting 5 will be Americans? I would be highly irritated if Serbia would to something similar.

Levenspiel
12-16-2019, 10:51 AM
Isn't that a little too much? I have no moral standards but do you guys really like that half your starting 5 will be Americans? I would be highly irritated if Serbia would to something similar.
Of course, it is. I'm trying to be sarcastic about it. Winslow story is true, but I don't think it can really happen.

With Bona & Biberovic, both of whom will be counted as non-naturalized Turkish NT members, soon, we'll have probably at least 3 foreigners in the roster.

if FIBA is serious about this, they can stop it (for all counties that exploit it), but they don't seem to care.

R1ou
12-16-2019, 10:57 AM
Of course, it is. I'm trying to be sarcastic about it.

With Bona & Biberovic, both of whom will be counted as non-naturalized Turkish NT members, soon, we'll have probably at least 3 foreigners in the roster.

if FIBA is serious about this, they can stop it (for all counties that exploit it), but they don't seem to care.

Bona and Biberovic landed on Turkey after the age of 14 like Ibaka and Mirotic. How come and they do not count as naturalized players?

Toruko
12-16-2019, 11:29 AM
Bona and Biberovic landed on Turkey after the age of 14 like Ibaka and Mirotic. How come and they do not count as naturalized players?

Bona got the passport when he was 15 so he has been developing fully in Turkey so he is a turkish product like Giannis. Biberovic played for Bosnian U16 and has still the possibility choose another country till to his 21th birthday which is in his case Turkey.

About so called foreigners in national teams.... every country has them (almost). Greece has the four Antetokounmpo Bros, Dorsey, Koufos, Calathes who has nothing to do with greek basketball. Or look at spanish U-teams. They have 3 in the current U18 and 2 in U20. If you condemn the situation do it overall or be silent.
@general
From my point of view as long as the guys are developed by turkey there is no problem for me. Of course you guys will say Antetokoumpo bros are born in greece Dorseys grandmom is greek etc. I know it all. There is no need for inferiority complex. Turkey has enough own prospects but want to get stronger by developing some non turk prospects.

Oh the border of age is not 14 but 16.

Levenspiel
12-16-2019, 11:30 AM
Bona and Biberovic landed on Turkey after the age of 14 like Ibaka and Mirotic. How come and they do not count as naturalized players?
You might be, r1ou, I had 16 as the cut-off age in my mind.



From my point of view as long as the guys are developed by turkey there is no problem for me. Of course you guys will say Antetokoumpo bros are born in greece Dorseys grandmom is greek etc. I know it all. There is no need for inferiority complex. Turkey has enough own prospects but want to get stronger by developing some non turk prospects.

What a strange argument, inferiority complex and all. it's wrong no matter who does it, us, Greece or any others.

Toruko
12-16-2019, 11:32 AM
Bona and Biber are not counted as naturalized. Biber just has to wait till his 21th birthday. Osmani is counted as naturalized because he got his passport after his 18th birthday.

Toruko
12-16-2019, 11:41 AM
What a strange argument, inferiority complex and all. it's wrong no matter who does it, us, Greece or any others.

This is a statement. Either for nobody or for everybody but criticizing just one side is not just. It is remarkable that you always criticize Turkey in that issue although almost every country has his foreign rooted players. I dont know what the reason is. I would be just happy to watch a good nt.

Fiba gives the rules and you act accordingly. Thats it.