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Tevfik1907
08-07-2019, 02:49 PM
Serbia (Fiba World Rank: 004)
Italy (Fiba World Rank: 013)
Philippines (Fiba World Rank: 031)
Angola (Fiba World Rank: 039)



31 August 2019

Angola - Serbia
15:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Foshan, Foshan International Sports & Cultural Arena
Game day 1

Philippines - Italy
19:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Foshan, Foshan International Sports & Cultural Arena
Game day 1


2 September 2019

Italy - Angola
15:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Foshan, Foshan International Sports & Cultural Arena
Game day 2

Serbia - Philippines
19:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Foshan, Foshan International Sports & Cultural Arena
Game day 2


4 September 2019

Angola - Philippines
15:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Foshan, Foshan International Sports & Cultural Arena
Game day 3

Italy - Serbia
19:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Foshan, Foshan International Sports & Cultural Arena
Game day 3

Rodrigue Beaubois
08-07-2019, 08:52 PM
I think this group is the least exciting when it comes to outcome, because the only game which could potentially be close is ANG-PHI. Yes, I think Italy has no chance against Serbia.

christodoulou76
08-08-2019, 12:59 PM
Todorovic, Jovanovic and Avramovic cut from SRB squad. Who do you think will be the last two cuts?

Obina
08-08-2019, 02:27 PM
Imo Simonovic and Bircevic.

MrRager
08-08-2019, 03:57 PM
Imo Simonovic and Bircevic.

But then Serbia is left with 4 centers.. Totally insane. Even if Jokic can be pushed to PF, that still leaves Boban, Milutinov and Raduljica. I think Raduljica will be cut for sure.

vivo
08-08-2019, 06:01 PM
But then Serbia is left with 4 centers.. Totally insane. Even if Jokic can be pushed to PF, that still leaves Boban, Milutinov and Raduljica. I think Raduljica will be cut for sure.

4 centers that can't play PF is a total overkill, agreed.

Can someone link to remaining players? I'm too lazy to search threads for it.

Mindozas
08-08-2019, 06:30 PM
4 centers that can't play PF is a total overkill, agreed.

Can someone link to remaining players? I'm too lazy to search threads for it.

Miloš Teodosić
Stefan Jović
Vasilije Micić
Bogdan Bogdanović
Marko Gudurić
Dragan Milosavljević
Vladimir Lučić
Marko Simonović
Nemanja Bjelica
Stefan Birčević
Nikola Jokić
Boban Marjanović
Nikola Milutinov
Miroslav Raduljica

Adon
08-08-2019, 06:47 PM
Miloš Teodosić
Stefan Jović
Vasilije Micić
Bogdan Bogdanović
Marko Gudurić
Dragan Milosavljević
Vladimir Lučić
Marko Simonović
Nemanja Bjelica
Stefan Birčević
Nikola Jokić
Boban Marjanović
Nikola Milutinov
Miroslav Raduljica

It's impressive to see all those names together!
I think they can give USA team a run for their money.

Toruko
08-08-2019, 06:51 PM
Impressive without Bircevic and Simonovic. :D

Serbian_Layup
08-08-2019, 06:55 PM
I wouldn't dismiss Simonović and Birčević just yet due to Jokić effect. He would make these players noticeably better than they are.

Simonović is a nice spot up shooter and has another quality that fits great with Jokić's skill set - affinity for baseline/backdoor cutting. That skill becomes valuable with a player like Jokić, and if both (unlikely) or one of them make it to the final roster, they should spend all of their minutes with Jokić who will maximize their time on the court.

It might seem like an easy decision, but I don't think so. With Jokić on the court there is no player on Serbian team that can be viewed as 'conceptual risk' and be neglected on offensive end so that defense can shift focus on better players. Đorđević is smart enough to know that, and both Simonović and Birčević are good enough to exploit all the space given by defense and make it pay for that. And there is no be better player than Jokić in this tournament to punish that kind of approach to less talented players.

My point is that there is a new argument and perspective to make for valuation of players like Simonović and Birčević due to Jokić's systematic approach to basketball, which means everybody equally participates on offense and hence everybody will have nice looks to contribute and not just stand around.

IMO, four players are competing for the last two spots - Marjanović (I don't think he is safe yet), Raduljica, Simonović and Birčević.

Toruko
08-08-2019, 07:05 PM
Radu can shoot as well. He learned it in China :D

Toxicity
08-08-2019, 07:09 PM
I think this group is the least exciting when it comes to outcome, because the only game which could potentially be close is ANG-PHI. Yes, I think Italy has no chance against Serbia.

Of course... Italy usually suffers physical teams under the basket so i expect much more chance for Italy against Spain in the 2nd group...

Serbian_Layup
08-08-2019, 07:10 PM
Radu can shoot as well. He learned it in China :D

True. :cool:

vivo
08-08-2019, 07:44 PM
Miloš Teodosić
Stefan Jović
Vasilije Micić
Bogdan Bogdanović
Marko Gudurić
Dragan Milosavljević
Vladimir Lučić
Marko Simonović
Nemanja Bjelica
Stefan Birčević
Nikola Jokić
Boban Marjanović
Nikola Milutinov
Miroslav Raduljica

Thanks!

Micic
Guduric
Bogdan
Bjelica
Jokic

This is quite the lineup, with Teodosic, Jovic, Marjanovic etc as the supporting cast. Still it looks like Serbia is a tad weaker in 3/4 spots compared to 1/2/5. Not calling Kalinic if he didn't have injuries was a questionable decision imho.

Toruko
08-08-2019, 08:31 PM
Thanks!

Micic
Guduric
Bogdan
Bjelica
Jokic

This is quite the lineup, with Teodosic, Jovic, Marjanovic etc as the supporting cast. Still it looks like Serbia is a tad weaker in 3/4 spots compared to 1/2/5. Not calling Kalinic if he didn't have injuries was a questionable decision imho.

You really dont know the strories behind Nedovic and Kalinic do you? :D

vivo
08-08-2019, 09:22 PM
You really dont know the strories behind Nedovic and Kalinic do you? :D

I have heard rumors about Kalinic, and I don't want to delve into them tbh, way off-topic

Rodrigue Beaubois
08-09-2019, 07:43 AM
You really dont know the strories behind Nedovic and Kalinic do you? :D

Very few people know the actual reason why Kalinic wasn't called up. He was considered a lock, specially because the SF position is the most vulnerable in the team. Everybody knows about his comments about Kosovo and about the infamous home video. But, is that enough to remove him from the team? Why was he put on the preliminary roster then? There must be something more to that.
On the other hand, Nedovic was injured during a long period of time, and he has strong competition on his position, so that is easier to understand.

Italian Pride
08-09-2019, 10:06 AM
Yes, I think Italy has no chance against Serbia.

I agree,with Melli and Gallo healthy maybe few chances more,without big body it's semi impossible,but in Meo Sacchetti i trust

soulis79
08-09-2019, 12:30 PM
I won't underestimate Italy, even if the star players arrive in China with no games played. They are good pros and surely they know what to do when the time comes. If finally all of them participate to the World Cup(Melli,Gallo) it would be the first time that Italy will have all it's players in recent years. In addition i like the presence of Brooks, it gives them some elements that Italians need to advance.

Besides that Italy is the worst nightmare of Spain. Spain always struggles with them, and mostly get defeated.

christodoulou76
08-09-2019, 01:31 PM
If finally all of them participate to the World Cup(Melli,Gallo) it would be the first time that Italy will have all it's players in recent years

Melli is out of WC. Gallo will play in WC but not appear in any friendlies. Datome will play in WC but will miss Acropolis friendlies.

Obina
08-09-2019, 07:07 PM
4 centers that can't play PF is a total overkill, agreed.

Can someone link to remaining players? I'm too lazy to search threads for it.

Bircevic is useless, not even Eurocup player so Bjelica most important games wil play 25-30 minutes. Rest of minutes can take Jokic or Lucic.

Pity for Kalinic troubles but still I can't complain.

xenoloxy
08-12-2019, 06:49 PM
Do you guys think Philippines have a chance against Italy?

Valexander
08-12-2019, 07:05 PM
Do you guys think Philippines have a chance against Italy?

To be honest, no.

Still I am in awe of the passion that philippina people treate basketball and the progress of the PBA. With the right decisions to be made into the academies and on the work on all National teams, sooner or later Philippines will be clear no 1 power in Asia in the decade to come.

Will there be philippina crowd in China? I remember last WC I wanted to mute the TV, because of that weird loud screams during Philippina defense :D

xenoloxy
08-12-2019, 08:03 PM
To be honest, no.

Still I am in awe of the passion that philippina people treate basketball and the progress of the PBA. With the right decisions to be made into the academies and on the work on all National teams, sooner or later Philippines will be clear no 1 power in Asia in the decade to come.

Will there be philippina crowd in China? I remember last WC I wanted to mute the TV, because of that weird loud screams during Philippina defense :D

Yes there will be a crowd. Wherever we play there will always be Filipinos watching.

The Philippine thread is frustrated with the progress but I think things are going nicely for us.The PBA is making a lot of progress. Just 2 years ago an import like Charles Rhodes lead a team to the finals. Now we got guys like Terrence Jones (Rockets) and Chris McCullough (Wizards) leading teams to the finals, it really shows how much progress we have made.

Then we got college leagues like UAAP (one of our teams, Ateneo, beat the Greece u21 last year), NCAA and Cesafi which are the top three college leagues imo. We also have a lot of talent in the amateur ranks in College and HS,To name a few from our u19 team :
Dave Ildefonso 6’5 SG (a scout said he was Div 1 talent)
Kia Sotto 7’2 PF/C (training in US and 17 years old)
Carl Tamayo 6’8 SF/PF
AJ Edu 6’11 SF/PF/C (University of Toledo)
Geo Chiu 6’10 C (Ateneo)
Too lazy to mention all our prospects hehe but anyways, back then our centers were like 6’4 in our Youth teams. Now we have also a lot of promising big guard/ wingmen in our u16 like
6’6 Lopez
6’5 De Liano
6’5 Torculas etc etc.

I hope you are right when you say we will be top 1 hehehe
Sorry for the OT.

xenoloxy
08-12-2019, 08:07 PM
I know I sound crazy but I think we can be competitive against Serbia and (hopefully by some miracle) win a close game against Italy. In 2014 WC we kept things close vs Puerto Rico, Croatia and world number 3 at the time Argentina. Our midget guard duos of 5’8 Alapag, 5’9 Tenorio and 5’9 Castro worked surprisingly well, Now we are using a taller lineup than back then.

Darrell Armstrong
08-13-2019, 08:41 AM
Question for italian fans. How do you see Italy's chances in this tournament? I was looking forward to play against Italy in 2nd phase, it looked like a team full of shooters which could make some noise; but without Melli I think their inside players are quite subpar. Thoughts?

Italian Pride
08-13-2019, 10:07 AM
Question for italian fans. How do you see Italy's chances in this tournament? I was looking forward to play against Italy in 2nd phase, it looked like a team full of shooters which could make some noise; but without Melli I think their inside players are quite subpar. Thoughts?

Our target is preolympic tournament not more,to get the ticket for the second group

we have no chance against Serbia,a few more against Spain

but with Meo Sacchetti we'll watch amazing basketball,run and gun,transition game,..

Next year with Nicolo Melli and Nico Mannion,maybe we could have our chance to compete for a spot in olympic game

xenoloxy
08-13-2019, 01:24 PM
Our target is preolympic tournament not more,to get the ticket for the second group

we have no chance against Serbia,a few more against Spain

but with Meo Sacchetti we'll watch amazing basketball,run and gun,transition game,..

Next year with Nicolo Melli and Nico Mannion,maybe we could have our chance to compete for a spot in olympic game

I watched the game vs Senegal. You guys play very entertaining basketball, I love how you play and how quick your game is... Senegal looked like a bunch of kids trying to keep up with the speed .

Darrell Armstrong
08-17-2019, 03:17 PM
Aradori was cut? Why? Was he playing that poorly? I thought Gentile was doing much worse.

Italian Pride
08-18-2019, 05:25 PM
Aradori was cut? Why? Was he playing that poorly? I thought Gentile was doing much worse.
Meo have choiced Della Valle over him

Darrell Armstrong
08-18-2019, 09:53 PM
Meo have choiced Della Valle over him

Della Valle and Filloy are going to be backing up Hackett. It's fairly common to go into a tournament with three PGs. I don't know if the decision was between Aradori and Della Valle, but seems like you have a lot of wing players that, to me, didn't look much better than Pietro in the friendlies. Of course, I diss Gentile and he goes off against Turkey...

Italian Pride
08-19-2019, 09:54 AM
Della Valle and Filloy are going to be backing up Hackett. It's fairly common to go into a tournament with three PGs. I don't know if the decision was between Aradori and Della Valle, but seems like you have a lot of wing players that, to me, didn't look much better than Pietro in the friendlies. Of course, I diss Gentile and he goes off against Turkey...

Filloy most probably will be one of the last two cuts

Luca Vitali will be Hackett's backup

ja.he
08-19-2019, 09:56 AM
can someone give us the list of players of italian team in world cup (with height and position). TIA.

Darrell Armstrong
08-19-2019, 10:16 AM
Filloy most probably will be one of the last two cuts

Luca Vitali will be Hackett's backup

Vitali? I missed him in all the games that I watched (albeit I watched only two or three of them). Well, I guess he has the experience. Filloy isn't showing much, to be honest.

Italian Pride
08-19-2019, 10:23 AM
can someone give us the list of players of italian team in world cup (with height and position). TIA.

#00 Amedeo Della Valle (1993, 194, G, A|X Armani Exchange Milano)
#3 Marco Belinelli (1986, 196, G, San Antonio Spurs - NBA)
#5 Alessandro Gentile (1992, 200, G/A, - )
#6 Paul Biligha (1990, 200, C, A|X Armani Exchange Milano)
#7 Luca Vitali (1986, 201, P, Germani Basket Brescia)
#8 Danilo Gallinari (1988, 208, A, Oklahoma City Thunder - NBA)
#10 Daniel Hackett (1987, 199, G, CSKA Mosca - Rus)
#12 Ariel Filloy (1987, 190, P, Umana Reyer Venezia)
#15 Jeff Brooks (1989, 203, A, A|X Armani Exchange Milano)
#16 Amedeo Tessitori (1994, 208, C, De’ Longhi Treviso)
#17 Giampaolo Ricci (1991, 201, A, Segafredo Virtus Bologna)
#23 Awudu Abass (1993, 198, A, Germani Basket Brescia)
#41 Brian Sacchetti (1986, 200, A, Germani Basket Brescia)
#70 Luigi Datome (1987, 203, A, Fenerbahce - Tur)

Italian Pride
08-19-2019, 10:26 AM
Vitali? I missed him in all the games that I watched (albeit I watched only two or three of them). Well, I guess he has the experience. Filloy isn't showing much, to be honest.
Filloy didn't play yesterday and against Greece,only against Serbia because Hackett was not available,so I guess that him will be one of the last two cuts

the last should be Ricci or Sacchetti

Darrell Armstrong
08-19-2019, 10:36 AM
Filloy didn't play yesterday and against Greece,only against Serbia because Hackett was not available,so I guess that him will be one of the last two cuts

the last should be Ricci or Sacchetti

I'd have cut both of them and kept Aradori, but again, I don't know what happened with him.

ja.he
08-19-2019, 10:51 AM
#00 Amedeo Della Valle (1993, 194, G, A|X Armani Exchange Milano)
#3 Marco Belinelli (1986, 196, G, San Antonio Spurs - NBA)
#5 Alessandro Gentile (1992, 200, G/A, - )
#6 Paul Biligha (1990, 200, C, A|X Armani Exchange Milano)
#7 Luca Vitali (1986, 201, P, Germani Basket Brescia)
#8 Danilo Gallinari (1988, 208, A, Oklahoma City Thunder - NBA)
#10 Daniel Hackett (1987, 199, G, CSKA Mosca - Rus)
#12 Ariel Filloy (1987, 190, P, Umana Reyer Venezia)
#15 Jeff Brooks (1989, 203, A, A|X Armani Exchange Milano)
#16 Amedeo Tessitori (1994, 208, C, De’ Longhi Treviso)
#17 Giampaolo Ricci (1991, 201, A, Segafredo Virtus Bologna)
#23 Awudu Abass (1993, 198, A, Germani Basket Brescia)
#41 Brian Sacchetti (1986, 200, A, Germani Basket Brescia)
#70 Luigi Datome (1987, 203, A, Fenerbahce - Tur)

not that tall frontline but has taller backcourt and wings. i bet that this team is quicker than an average european team except maybe france.

Italian Pride
08-19-2019, 10:52 AM
I'd have cut both of them and kept Aradori, but again, I don't know what happened with him.

Both of them ricci and sacchetti?

I disagree,aradori like 12th is useless,better a fighter like Ricci in my opinion

Italian Pride
08-19-2019, 10:59 AM
not that tall frontline but has taller backcourt and wings. i bet that this team is quicker than an average european team except maybe france.

Our starting C is tall 2metres with the shoes:D

I think Gallo will play like C with Jeff Brooks andň Gigi Datome togethere

ja.he
08-19-2019, 11:01 AM
this is the current philippine team line up:

robert bolick - 185 G
cj perez - 185 G/F
paul lee - 185 G
mark barroca - 173 G
roger pogoy - 185 G
matthew wright - 193 G/F
gabe norwood - 196 G/F
troy rosario - 200 F
jp erram - 200 C/F
raymond almazan - 201 C/F
japeth aguilar - 204 F/C
junmar fajardo - 208 C
andray blatche - 211 C
beau belga - 196 C/F
jordan clarkson (status not cleared yet) - 196 G
stanley pringle - 183 G
christian standhardinger - 201 F/C

i doubt that jordan clarkson will ever play for us for as long as he is not cleared to play.

quite short team. i don't expect anything about this team tbh but hoping for them to pull off some surprises.

ja.he
08-19-2019, 11:04 AM
Our starting C is tall 2metres with the shoes:D

I think Gallo will play like C with Jeff Brooks andň Gigi Datome togethere

atleast, your team is not getting dwarfed since your team has tall guards and wings. you can play small ball effectively.

serbianhoops
08-30-2019, 12:39 PM
Nemanja Bjelica won't play against Angola (knee cyst recovery).

xenoloxy
08-30-2019, 01:39 PM
Nemanja Bjelica won't play against Angola (knee cyst recovery).

Its not like its a game changer for Angola hahaha.

Levenspiel
08-31-2019, 07:41 AM
WC started with great shooting precision. Did anyone miss even a 3? it's like 10/10 so far.

edit: 10/12 (those two misses must have been in the first minute that i missed)

greenarcher
08-31-2019, 07:45 AM
Angola not as weak as people projected them to be. No blowouts so far. Serbia playing a little complacent.

JGX
08-31-2019, 07:51 AM
I remember when the US team had players that were as popular among the Chinese fans as Jokic.

greenarcher
08-31-2019, 07:54 AM
Serbia just letting Angola shoot those 3s. This game feels like a tune-up game for them.

They are probably conserving the energy for the more important games.

LDK
08-31-2019, 08:01 AM
Serbia rotation like in hockey :D Too much talent for coach :) Is Jovic really better than Micic?

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 08:02 AM
Serbia rotation like in hockey :D Too much talent for coach :) Is Jovic really better than Micic?

He was in all prep games. Especially on defense...

bsgermany
08-31-2019, 09:01 AM
I know I sound crazy but I think we can be competitive against Serbia and (hopefully by some miracle) win a close game against Italy. In 2014 WC we kept things close vs Puerto Rico, Croatia and world number 3 at the time Argentina. Our midget guard duos of 5’8 Alapag, 5’9 Tenorio and 5’9 Castro worked surprisingly well, Now we are using a taller lineup than back then.

What have you been smoking? Philippines a chance against Serbia? They will be lucky if they dont get crushed by 30 points or more. Italy will be the match to watch, although Philippines will need more than one miracle to come up with a win there. These teams not only have a huge height advantage, they also simply play better.
So sorry to say that, but angola may be your only chance to celebrate.

Rodrigue Beaubois
08-31-2019, 09:15 AM
I felt sorry for the guys from Angola

madmax
08-31-2019, 09:17 AM
dayum, them african teams really suck at this game of basketball for some reason...and it's not like their ancestors once didn't cross the Great Pond and settle down in New England to form US of America later on and start dominating the basketball programme worldwide. So I wonder what gives here then, surely not a lack of physical capabilities:confused:

xenoloxy
08-31-2019, 09:24 AM
What have you been smoking? Philippines a chance against Serbia? They will be lucky if they dont get crushed by 30 points or more. Italy will be the match to watch, although Philippines will need more than one miracle to come up with a win there. These teams not only have a huge height advantage, they also simply play better.
So sorry to say that, but angola may be your only chance to celebrate.

By competitive i meant 15-25 point loss. I’m not an idiot lols

unnamed
08-31-2019, 09:26 AM
dayum, them african teams really suck at this game of basketball for some reason...and it's not like their ancestors once didn't cross the Great Pond and settle down in New England to form US of America later on and start dominating the basketball programme worldwide. So I wonder what gives here then, surely not a lack of physical capabilities:confused:

More than a single factor.

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 10:11 AM
dayum, them african teams really suck at this game of basketball for some reason...and it's not like their ancestors once didn't cross the Great Pond and settle down in New England to form US of America later on and start dominating the basketball programme worldwide. So I wonder what gives here then, surely not a lack of physical capabilities:confused:

Of course its because of America's basketball program which is super competitive. Its not the race, its the country. But blacks do have a genetic advantage which helps them.

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 10:51 AM
But blacks do have a genetic advantage which helps them.

This has been scientifically disproven. There is no inherent genetic advantage for blacks in terms of athleticism.

ja.he
08-31-2019, 10:54 AM
This has been scientifically disproven. There is no inherent genetic advantage for blacks in terms of athleticism.

if this thing is true, african teams and qatar should be in the top 20 basketball teams in the world.

madmax
08-31-2019, 10:56 AM
This has been scientifically disproven. There is no inherent genetic advantage for blacks in terms of athleticism.

Apart only from the faster twitching muscles, which help with the speed and jumping ability tremendously...

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 11:04 AM
This has been scientifically disproven. There is no inherent genetic advantage for blacks in terms of athleticism.

LOL. By who? You?

I do believe every race can have fast twitch genes and can genetically be athletic, also exercising and training plays a part. Whites, Asians or whatever other races also can have 44+ inch verticals. But blacks are likelier to possess these fast twitch genes than other races. Its like every race can have tall people, Asians have their giants like Yao Ming etc..but as a whole Asian are shorter than Europeans (I don't think you are going to dispute that). Same applies for athletic advantages, there are asians who can run and jump with the best of them but as a whole their are athletically inferior to blacks.

Just look at the 100m race. So far only 1 or 2 asian has break the 10 secs barrier. But blacks have been breaking the 10s barrier all the time and the world's fastest 100m runner Usain Bolt of course is also a black. NBA players are also largely blacks, even though blacks are a minority in America.

Based on empirical evidence blacks have an athletic advantage whether you like it or not.

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 11:07 AM
if this thing is true, african teams and qatar should be in the top 20 basketball teams in the world.

Having athleticism doesn't mean they are automatically good in basketball.

Katastroika
08-31-2019, 11:17 AM
Jokic is so fun to watch in the blue jersey. We came out like a tornado. The boys seem to be ready for going far.

usagre
08-31-2019, 11:18 AM
@Coach Z

Should we read too much into Serbia’s starting lineup or was it more to do with the weak opponent and in essence a continuation of preparation.

usagre
08-31-2019, 11:40 AM
It took all of 5 minutes for the Italy-Philippines game to be decided.

Katastroika
08-31-2019, 11:40 AM
Philipines look awful so far.

JGX
08-31-2019, 11:45 AM
stop the fight

usagre
08-31-2019, 11:48 AM
Italy on pace to win game by 120 point differential.

Tesla
08-31-2019, 11:50 AM
I felt sorry for the guys from Angola

Same. Apparently last time they played it was 50 points the difference. This time only 46. So a small positive.

bsgermany
08-31-2019, 11:50 AM
What a humiliating first quarter for the Philippines.

bsgermany
08-31-2019, 11:51 AM
Angola better than Latvia? I guess you are joking.

usagre
08-31-2019, 11:54 AM
Same. Apparently last time they played it was 50 points the difference. This time only 46. So a small positive.

They played a lot better 3 years ago in Belgrade in the Olympic qualifying tournament.

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 11:57 AM
Looks like pros vs a bunch of streetballers

bsgermany
08-31-2019, 11:58 AM
this is nothing but a very relaxed practise session for Italy.

interxavierxxx
08-31-2019, 11:58 AM
What a humiliating first quarter for the Philippines.

We don’t fucking belong here with this kind of performance. Jesus.

How many god damn uncontested outside shots are we going to give up?

Katastroika
08-31-2019, 11:58 AM
I wonder if I ever have seen a worse team than Philipines at a World Cup game.

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 12:04 PM
Apart only from the faster twitching muscles, which help with the speed and jumping ability tremendously...


LOL. By who? You?

I do believe every race can have fast twitch genes and can genetically be athletic, also exercising and training plays a part. Whites, Asians or whatever other races also can have 44+ inch verticals. But blacks are likelier to possess these fast twitch genes than other races. Its like every race can have tall people, Asians have their giants like Yao Ming etc..but as a whole Asian are shorter than Europeans (I don't think you are going to dispute that). Same applies for athletic advantages, there are asians who can run and jump with the best of them but as a whole their are athletically inferior to blacks.

Just look at the 100m race. So far only 1 or 2 asian has break the 10 secs barrier. But blacks have been breaking the 10s barrier all the time and the world's fastest 100m runner Usain Bolt of course is also a black. NBA players are also largely blacks, even though blacks are a minority in America.

Based on empirical evidence blacks have an athletic advantage whether you like it or not.

Firstly,

If you are going to come at me, you will have to do sooooo much better than this and actually spend time on this.

I said very precisely, there is no inherent genetic advantage for blacks in terms of athleticism, and that is 100% true and I will elaborate:

- Fast twitch fibres are a result of a genetic mutation and abundance of ACTN3 protein which is connected to a geographical area, and has nothing to do with a persons skin color. To be precise, only people of West African origin have been found to have an abundance of ACTN3 which is key to building fast twitch fibers. This is the primary reason why fastest sprinters you mentioned are from Bahamas, Carribean origin etc. That's where they have been forcefuly migrated as slaves in the colonial period. Coupled with superior training methods, the genetic mutation has become apparent in the sprinting.

- Blacks can be also found in East, South, Central and North African, yet none of them possess this athletic advantage and the abundance of fast twitch fibers. This comes to the point, that the mutation is from environmental and geographical factors, and it has NOTHING to do with race. Examples as such can be seen everywhere in sports with other types of mutations. It is like the people from Nile Valley who dominate the endurance racing due to genetic mutations to slow-twich fibres and superior endurance capacity, which is a cause of altitude etc. Once again, Kenyan are not the best marathon runners because they are black, but because they have evolved through history in an area that caused a genetic mutation giving them an advantage in a particular discipline.

People have to stop talking about "Blacks" as being superior athletes because the color of their skin and actually learn a little about the issue. Do you think that all of black NBA is composed of West Africa descendants that have fast-twitch fibers? That is just simply not the case. Also people point out NBA and number of African Americans there as an evidence supporting that superior black athleticism theory. There are a huge number of problems with that as well. Firstly, research on genetic composition of African Americans has shown that almost 90% have had a white ancestor in the past. At the same time, the prevalnce of basketball as a major and dominant sport among the African American population is the main factor. Couple that with a great coaching and training infrastructure, NCAA as a farm system for the pros, and you will get a system that creates that image of the NBA and the dominance of American basketball over the years.

So, please be mindful before trying to support racist views. This robs the players of the credit for training hard, developing and working on their game. It promotes the image of black athletes as being naturally gifted and not having to work for it as hard. Which, in the bottom line, is racist.

usagre
08-31-2019, 12:13 PM
Italy doesn’t need to score a single point in the second half and would still win this game in all likelihood.

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 12:14 PM
@Coach Z

Should we read too much into Serbia’s starting lineup or was it more to do with the weak opponent and in essence a continuation of preparation.

Well, not really. He started the game with Bircevic at PF, who will be gone once Bjelica makes it back into the lineup. He has started with Jokic off the bench throughout the whole prep period, but in the end he gets the minutes. He did a similar thing with Teodosic in the past. I don't like it, but it is just something that he does. Bogdanovic, Bjelica and Jokic will play major minutes for sure, and that will become apparent in more competitive games.

A key note was that Jovic has taken over as the main PG and has clearly separated himself from Micic and he will be the starter going forward. Once again he had a great game, 5 points, 4 rebs, 9 ast, zero turnovers, in 20 minutes, playing great defense. That kid has balls and is very clutch and calm in important games. Yes, he can't really shoot but he is a heck of a player. Injuries have robbed him of a much greater career.

bsgermany
08-31-2019, 12:32 PM
Blatche keeps playing as if his only regular practise takes place at McDonalds.

Jon_Koncak
08-31-2019, 12:32 PM
dayum, them african teams really suck at this game of basketball for some reason...and it's not like their ancestors once didn't cross the Great Pond and settle down in New England to form US of America later on and start dominating the basketball programme worldwide. So I wonder what gives here then, surely not a lack of physical capabilities:confused:

Caucasians dominate in world soccer yet Lietuva is god awful on it.What gives?

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 12:37 PM
Firstly,

If you are going to come at me, you will have to do sooooo much better than this and actually spend time on this.

I said very precisely, there is no inherent genetic advantage for blacks in terms of athleticism, and that is 100% true and I will elaborate:

- Fast twitch fibres are a result of a genetic mutation and abundance of ACTN3 protein which is connected to a geographical area, and has nothing to do with a persons skin color. To be precise, only people of West African origin have been found to have an abundance of ACTN3 which is key to building fast twitch fibers. This is the primary reason why fastest sprinters you mentioned are from Bahamas, Carribean origin etc. That's where they have been forcefuly migrated as slaves in the colonial period. Coupled with superior training methods, the genetic mutation has become apparent in the sprinting.

- Blacks can be also found in East, South, Central and North African, yet none of them possess this athletic advantage and the abundance of fast twitch fibers. This comes to the point, that the mutation is from environmental and geographical factors, and it has NOTHING to do with race. Examples as such can be seen everywhere in sports with other types of mutations. It is like the people from Nile Valley who dominate the endurance racing due to genetic mutations to slow-twich fibres and superior endurance capacity, which is a cause of altitude etc. Once again, Kenyan are not the best marathon runners because they are black, but because they have evolved through history in an area that caused a genetic mutation giving them an advantage in a particular discipline.

People have to stop talking about "Blacks" as being superior athletes because the color of their skin and actually learn a little about the issue. Do you think that all of black NBA is composed of West Africa descendants that have fast-twitch fibers? That is just simply not the case. Also people point out NBA and number of African Americans there as an evidence supporting that superior black athleticism theory. There are a huge number of problems with that as well. Firstly, research on genetic composition of African Americans has shown that almost 90% have had a white ancestor in the past. At the same time, the prevalnce of basketball as a major and dominant sport among the African American population is the main factor. Couple that with a great coaching and training infrastructure, NCAA as a farm system for the pros, and you will get a system that creates that image of the NBA and the dominance of American basketball over the years.

So, please be mindful before trying to support racist views. This robs the players of the credit for training hard, developing and working on their game. It promotes the image of black athletes as being naturally gifted and not having to work for it as hard. Which, in the bottom line, is racist.

Say what you want. Observable evidence shows that there is a difference. Look at all the athletics world record, for the short distance runs and long/high jumps are all by blacks. If there is a no difference, then it should be a healthy mix of blacks,white,asians and other races.

MrRager
08-31-2019, 12:39 PM
Caucasians dominate in world soccer yet Lietuva is god awful on it.What gives?

Don't pay attention to that racist SOB. Btw, that burn went hard.

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 12:40 PM
Say what you want. Observable evidence shows that there is a difference. Look at all the athletics world record, for the short distance runs and long/high jumps are all by blacks. If there is a no difference, then it should be a healthy mix of blacks,white,asians and other races.

It is as you have read nothing I have written. Keep on rolling dude, enjoy living in ignorance...

Adon
08-31-2019, 12:54 PM
It is as you have read nothing I have written. Keep on rolling dude, enjoy living in ignorance...

Furthermore, black skin doesn't define a race obviously. In fact, the word "race" is obsolete.
Certain geographical areas, in which there is significant genetic similarity among the population, although there are relatively rare, don't define "races" also.

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 12:59 PM
Furthermore, black skin doesn't define a race obviously. In fact, the word "race" is obsolete.
Certain geographical areas, in which there is significant genetic similarity among the population, although there are relatively rare, don't define "races" also.

Yep, true dat.

Still, there is so much prejudice in the world towards people of different skin color. Basketball is no different, as we can see on the forum as well.

Tevfik1907
08-31-2019, 01:02 PM
This went out of topic heavily, but I will share my opinion too.

I don't think race has anything to do with it either, Afro-americans are kind of different than the other black people in African continent, because of the slavery system of USA and Europe in the past (between 1492-1862), they forced black people to work hard physically, and if they don't they would simply kill them, and most of the black slaves dies during the travel from African continent to American continent, and the only ones who are strong survived. Then they continue to use these black people as slaves for physical workers until they stopped that slavery system in 1865. That's why the blacks in America , are better than the rest blacks in Africa due to natural selection. Not the majority of blacks are more athletic.

If you enslave an entire race, and forced them to work physically as slaves for hundreds of years, then it's only natural that only the strongest ones will survive from that race, and if you carry these selected group of people to another continent, here you go you've that superior athletic people, who are physically better. As far as I see that's the only reason why Afro-americans are physically more suitable for sports, not the black people usually.

Slavery is a horrible thing.

Adon
08-31-2019, 01:02 PM
Yep, true dat.

Still, there is so much prejudice in the world towards people of different skin color. Basketball is no different, as we can see on the forum as well.

"the creed of ignorance, the gospel of envy":D

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 01:19 PM
It is as you have read nothing I have written. Keep on rolling dude, enjoy living in ignorance...

Yeah, you said because of geographical areas the genes mutate so that certain blacks have fast twitch muscles and some don't.
This is a touchy subject, but my belief is because a large number of blacks were used as slaves (In the past) and put to hard labor, over time
they develop more genes for muscles and explosiveness. If world history were different and whites were used as slaves, then they
indeed will also develop these fast twitch genes.

But as a whole, blacks are indeed more athletic (Or at least those whose ancestors were once slaves if you want to be precise).
You can't generalize and pick a random black person and assume his athletic, but as a whole population they are more athletic due to reasons
I mentioned above. That is why all the world records that requires explosiveness (Short distance runs and those long/high/triple jumps) are
black descent. The only way that this can happen if all race are truly equally athletic is if this is a mathematical anomaly similar to getting 10 reds in a row in roulette when the likelier outcome is 5 black 5 red.

Your geographical argument doesn't even make sense. Its like saying Asians don't have smaller eyes and its because of geographical reasons they have smaller eyes (Duh). All "races" have one common ancestor in Africa several hundred thousands of years ago, and over time through cultural and geographical differences we develop different looks/genes and attributes.

usagre
08-31-2019, 01:23 PM
Jimmy the Greek is rolling in his grave screaming see I was right and they fired me!

JGX
08-31-2019, 01:27 PM
Blatche one turnover short of a triple-double.

We already have the Olympics as a serious tournament for the elite teams, there's no point in having a second tournament with the same teams. The WC is enjoyable as a fun festival of basketball that provides some fresh matchups and gives a taste of the world stage to teams that can't qualify for the Olympics, like the Philippines or Cote d'Ivoire or Canada. I say expand it to 48 teams next time.

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 01:36 PM
Jimmy the Greek is rolling in his grave screaming see I was right and they fired me!

Yep, you see this????

Burek
08-31-2019, 01:41 PM
If world history were different and whites were used as slaves, then they
indeed will also develop these fast twitch genes.


What do you mean if? The very word slave comes from a caucasian group of peoples.

usagre
08-31-2019, 01:44 PM
Yep, you see this????

Great point by the way about how the overwhelming majority of African-Americans also have white ancestry.
People take the easy way out and just get fooled by their eyes. I mean President Obama was 50% white for God’s sake.

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 01:44 PM
This went out of topic heavily, but I will share my opinion too.

I don't think race has anything to do with it either, Afro-americans are kind of different than the other black people in African continent, because of the slavery system of USA and Europe in the past (between 1492-1862), they forced black people to work hard physically, and if they don't they would simply kill them, and most of the black slaves dies during the travel from African continent to American continent, and the only ones who are strong survived. Then they continue to use these black people as slaves for physical workers until they stopped that slavery system in 1865. That's why the blacks in America , are better than the rest blacks in Africa due to natural selection. Not the majority of blacks are more athletic.

If you enslave an entire race, and forced them to work physically as slaves for hundreds of years, then it's only natural that only the strongest ones will survive from that race, and if you carry these selected group of people to another continent, here you go you've that superior athletic people, who are physically better. As far as I see that's the only reason why Afro-americans are physically more suitable for sports, not the black people usually.

Slavery is a horrible thing.

And its because of this slavery they retained the genes which makes them Afro-Americans athletically superior as a whole. But even blacks in Africa (Maybe only in certain areas I'm not a scientist in this subject), are also very athletic maybe due to the harsh conditions. Look at the African basketball teams, there's no denying they are more athletic then the other teams.

So I do not think I am incorrect in saying blacks are more athletic. It may be because of the by-product (Slavery, or harsh conditions in africa) which caused this and not directly because of being the black race. But you can't just take it out of context and say blacks are not athletic. It's like arguing Americans are good at basketball not because they are Americans, but the reason they are better than other countries because they train harder in it (lmao).

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 02:00 PM
Yeah, you said because of geographical areas the genes mutate so that certain blacks have fast twitch muscles and some don't.
This is a touchy subject, but my belief is because a large number of blacks were used as slaves (In the past) and put to hard labor, over time
they develop more genes for muscles and explosiveness. If world history were different and whites were used as slaves, then they
indeed will also develop these fast twitch genes.

But as a whole, blacks are indeed more athletic (Or at least those whose ancestors were once slaves if you want to be precise).
You can't generalize and pick a random black person and assume his athletic, but as a whole population they are more athletic due to reasons
I mentioned above. That is why all the world records that requires explosiveness (Short distance runs and those long/high/triple jumps) are
black descent. The only way that this can happen if all race are truly equally athletic is if this is a mathematical anomaly similar to getting 10 reds in a row in roulette when the likelier outcome is 5 black 5 red.

Your geographical argument doesn't even make sense. Its like saying Asians don't have smaller eyes and its because of geographical reasons they have smaller eyes (Duh). All "races" have one common ancestor in Africa several hundred thousands of years ago, and over time through cultural and geographical differences we develop different looks/genes and attributes.

Both you and Tefvik are extremely wrong.

Slavery as an institution has existed throughout human history and has involved people from all areas, skin color etc. Do you think that only European colonizers of the New World used slaves? Do you understand that Greeks and Romans used slaves for a much longer period. Not even to mention Persia, Egypt etc etc. How come this slave breeding, and hard labor haven't produced superior genetic population in other areas, skin colors etc. The slavery argument is another part of racist theory, intended to diminish the hard work of black athletes around the globe. "Poor blacks, if we didn't enslave them, they wouldn't even be good at sports".

So much prejudice in everything you say. In terms of genetic mutations and evolution, several centuries of slavery in the New World and whatever conditions they were exposed was not enough time to undergo mutations and evolutionary processes that are necessary to make a difference in genetics. Only prolonged exposure to environmental factors can cause evolutionary mutations over thousands of years. If we take the theory you mention of a single common ancestor in Africa, you still have to understand that people migrate from that original spot, and ones that settle in one isolated area under extreme environmental conditions and factors, over a long period of time will undergo the genetic mutation that will help them adapt to that environment. This is the case of people of West Africa for fast-twitch, Kenya/Nile Valley for endurance etc...

Even in basketball, where dominance of American athletes, who are predominantely black, the population average athletic traits for basketball are worse than in other areas. For example, people of Ex-Yu are on average 3 inches taller, have a higher % of extremely tall people in population than in the US etc. Yet, the end product is something different. There is a lot of research done on the topic, for example it has been deduced that if you are 7ft or taller (213cm+) there is a 17% chance that you will at some point play in the NBA. If you are anywhere between 198cm and 203cm, there is a mere 0.07% chance that you will make it in the NBA.

The geographical argument makes all the sense. The environment you live in is the main factor on how that population is going to evolve and mutate through long time periods. Of course, the mutations nowadays are much less prevalent, since we don't have so many isolated people and groups that can develop those traits. In the past, people didn't migrate as much and developed distinct genetic mutations, and once you came in contact with them, the mutations became extremely obvious due to isolation. The world now is extremely mobile, there is a lot of mixing of different genetic groups and the new genetic profiles are mainly coming to life through that, not environmental factors, as it used to be in the past as much.

Still, for your own good, you should steer clear of racist theories regarding black athletes. They just don't hold water in front of scientific community and method. Otherwise, for the last 50 years all of nations wanting to get better at basketball, would send their kids and teenagers to cotton fields and expect Michael Jordans in few decades. This is how ridiculous the slave argument sounds.

Valexander
08-31-2019, 02:01 PM
We have all been waiting some random guys to write about races, based on observation. Like history or science means nothing.

On top of that, of course there is no reason to mention, the class-criteria. Why afro-Americans, since they were out of the education and any chance for an american dreamed career, were trying for a better life playing ball in the ghettos they were forced to live. i am trying to speak on a past sentence in terms of being polite, and probably i am wrong. Besides, watch swimming, which was untouchable especially in past decades, for lower class families, due to the cost of using a pool. Obviously white guys can swim better. Maybe because they swam the atlantic to reach America.

usagre
08-31-2019, 02:07 PM
As Coach Z said it would take thousands of years of slavery not hundreds to produce the results that are argued.

And as Valexander points out class status also plays a role. Why are African Americans and Latinos the best boxers ?
Historically the best boxers have always been based on class status. Irish and Italian in the first half of the 20th century and then African Americans and Latin Americans after that. They didn’t evolve into stronger better athletes it was all about class status.

radallo
08-31-2019, 02:23 PM
I was wondering how such a boring first day for group D turned into an interesting discussion...

;)

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 02:39 PM
More truth bombs for the non-believers:

When it comes to sprinting, 143 athletes have run under 10-seconds in 100m dash. The first man that was not from West African origin to do it was Frankie Fredericks in 1991. The first athlete of European origin officially to run under 10 seconds was Christian Lemaitre from France who did it in 2010. The first athlete from South-East Asia to do it was Chinese Su Bingtian in 2015. Adam Gemili from UK (Iranian and Morrocan origin) was the first athlete with origins from the Middle East to do it in 2015 as well. Out of 143 athletes that ran under 10 seconds, more than 90% of them were of West African origins. So, much for the geographical location and mutations to those factors not playing a part. Athletes from other parts of Africa, are yet to even make a mark in this area.

When it comes to mid and long distance endurance racing, people of the Nile Valley dominate. Especially when it comes to Marathon, people from Kenya, to be precise from a tribe of Kalenjin dominate the sport. They hold all the records, and often in main marathon competitions, they have 8 or 9 out of 10 runners in the Top 10. Of course, they also hold the world record etc. This tribe was localised in one area of Kenya, nowadays has around 5 million people and it dominates the sport due to genetic mutation, which is a product of their environment and lifestyle over thousands of years. For example, 17 Americans have managed to run a sub 2hour 10min marathon in HISTORY. Twice the number of athletes from Kalenjin tribe do it every month :D It is just laughable to think that environmental factors and genetic mutations do not make sense to some people here. The evidence is overwhelming.

3.14159
08-31-2019, 03:02 PM
I think you are right. I agree that we should steer clear of stupid racist theories.
I just wanted to note something regarding your evolution argument. There is a difference between evolution by random natural selection (slow) and artificial selection (fast).
I assume that throughout humanity's terrible history of slavery, some slaves (that were intended for labor) were selected based on their physical characteristics. And if that group were introduced to a new region where they did not reproduce with the native population, they could have specific physical phenotypes passed down that are superior to the rest of the population (Founder effect). I don't think there is any evidence for this claim, though.
I also think that most people still don't understand the basics of evolution, and confuse it with Lamarckism lol.

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 03:42 PM
More truth bombs for the non-believers:

When it comes to sprinting, 143 athletes have run under 10-seconds in 100m dash. The first man that was not from West African origin to do it was Frankie Fredericks in 1991. The first athlete of European origin officially to run under 10 seconds was Christian Lemaitre from France who did it in 2010. The first athlete from South-East Asia to do it was Chinese Su Bingtian in 2015. Adam Gemili from UK (Iranian and Morrocan origin) was the first athlete with origins from the Middle East to do it in 2015 as well. Out of 143 athletes that ran under 10 seconds, more than 90% of them were of West African origins. So, much for the geographical location and mutations to those factors not playing a part. Athletes from other parts of Africa, are yet to even make a mark in this area.

When it comes to mid and long distance endurance racing, people of the Nile Valley dominate. Especially when it comes to Marathon, people from Kenya, to be precise from a tribe of Kalenjin dominate the sport. They hold all the records, and often in main marathon competitions, they have 8 or 9 out of 10 runners in the Top 10. Of course, they also hold the world record etc. This tribe was localised in one area of Kenya, nowadays has around 5 million people and it dominates the sport due to genetic mutation, which is a product of their environment and lifestyle over thousands of years. For example, 17 Americans have managed to run a sub 2hour 10min marathon in HISTORY. Twice the number of athletes from Kalenjin tribe do it every month :D It is just laughable to think that environmental factors and genetic mutations do not make sense to some people here. The evidence is overwhelming.

Well, I never said that environmental factors and genetic mutation as a whole do not play a part. These factors cause west africans to be very explosive.

So when I said blacks are genetically superior in athleticism to other races. I am not wrong base on evidence you provided where 90% of sub 10s runners are west africans origin(blacks).

While not all blacks are west african in origin. West africans are blacks which doesn't make my statement that "blacks are more athletic than other races" untrue taken as a whole.

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 04:03 PM
Well, I never said that environmental factors and genetic mutation as a whole do not play a part. These factors cause west africans to be very explosive.

So when I said blacks are genetically superior in athleticism to other races. I am not wrong base on evidence you provided where 90% of sub 10s runners are west africans origin(blacks).

While not all blacks are west african in origin. West africans are blacks which doesn't make my statement that "blacks are more athletic than other races" untrue taken as a whole.

C'mon mate, just give it up. If all people came from a common ancestor, how come Kenyans are superior in terms of slow-twitch and West Africa in terms of fast twitch fibers? It's purely on the environmental factors combined with evolution. The color of the skin plays no part in this. If people of predominantly white pigment were located there and have evolved as well (after all, they have a common ancestor), they would've experienced the same genetic mutations. It is not an issue of skin color.

And no, blacks are not superior to other races in terms of athleticism. It is a racist statement that should be erradicated. The best fast-twitch athletes majorly come from West Africa, they just happen to be black is the correct statement. Once you get that, everything else will fall into place.

mojo13
08-31-2019, 04:09 PM
If the slave theory made any sense shouldn’t we see Middle Eastern countries dominating sports? About 1.5 to 2x slaves were kidnapped into the Middle East during the Arab slave trade than the European-Atlantic slave trade. And as mentioned above this has been going on across all populations for 1000s of years. All heinous crimes against humanity.

madmax
08-31-2019, 07:22 PM
Someone already managed to call me a racist prick, even though my remark was made in a joking sarcastic way rather than trying to smear black population lol. It's pretty obvious by the way that being black/yellow/orange etc has not much to do with inherent athletic abilities, but rather with a social construct of the predominantly black community and their understanding of how to succeed in life by taking the other route than "privileged" white kids in prestigious universities...

bballcrazy
08-31-2019, 10:53 PM
C'mon mate, just give it up. If all people came from a common ancestor, how come Kenyans are superior in terms of slow-twitch and West Africa in terms of fast twitch fibers? It's purely on the environmental factors combined with evolution. The color of the skin plays no part in this. If people of predominantly white pigment were located there and have evolved as well (after all, they have a common ancestor), they would've experienced the same genetic mutations. It is not an issue of skin color.

And no, blacks are not superior to other races in terms of athleticism. It is a racist statement that should be erradicated. The best fast-twitch athletes majorly come from West Africa, they just happen to be black is the correct statement. Once you get that, everything else will fall into place.

Since West Africans are blacks, and you yourself say they have better fast twitch muscles compared to everyone else. How is a statement like saying blacks are the most athletic as a whole untrue? It isn't false.

This is like saying Asians are the shortest race. As a whole this is true, although theres some genetic and environmental factors play a part, like Korean males are pretty tall at 5'9 on average which is same as Americans.

Or this is saying American ballers are the best, which is not an untrue statement. Although not all american ballers are good at basketball and those in rural areas probably suck short of a few outliers, the best are probably concentrated in a few city areas like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York etc..

This doesn't make the statement Americans are the best in basketball false just because most of the top talent are from a few big cities and not all americans from every city are equally good in it.

Likewise it doesn't make the statement blacks are the most athletic false just because those with fast twitch muscles are mostly from west africa.

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 11:30 PM
Since West Africans are blacks, and you yourself say they have better fast twitch muscles compared to everyone else. How is a statement like saying blacks are the most athletic as a whole untrue? It isn't false.

This is like saying Asians are the shortest race. As a whole this is true, although theres some genetic and environmental factors play a part, like Korean males are pretty tall at 5'9 on average which is same as Americans.

Or this is saying American ballers are the best, which is not an untrue statement. Although not all american ballers are good at basketball and those in rural areas probably suck short of a few outliers, the best are probably concentrated in a few city areas like Los Angeles, Chicago, New York etc..

This doesn't make the statement Americans are the best in basketball false just because most of the top talent are from a few big cities and not all americans from every city are equally good in it.

Likewise it doesn't make the statement blacks are the most athletic false just because those with fast twitch muscles are mostly from west africa.

It's actually quite simple, but you refuse to accept it.

- What percentage of black people are from West Africa in the whole world. How can you make a general statement that black people are superior athletes genetically? So let's say, Tesla is of Serbian origin, does that make Serbians the ultimate superior scientific minds in the world? This is exactly your logic. You are making general statements about black people that are UNTRUE! If you have said, on average people who come from West Africa have rare genetic traits that make them superior athletes in the fast-twitch proteins and fibers, maybe the statement makes sense.
- Currently there are 1.2 bil people living in Africa, out of which 360 mil are in West Africa, meaning less than a third of total African population are part of this group. Out of those 360 million in West Africa, there are non-blacks from countries like Morocco etc. So the actual number is waaaaay smaller.
- Only 3% of African Americans in USA have the genetic mutation that we are discussing making the whole notion of general athletic superiority of blacks even more ridiculous.
- American basketball players and urban vs rural, complete mistake once again. It's a movie and TV stereotype that you are once again believing. Actually a higher percentage of great NBA players come from either rural, suburban or small-town upbringings. the only 2 that I know from Top 20 of best NBA players of all time, that are big city kids are Kareem and Wilt. Everyone else, pretty much not.

Like I said, you have completely wrong views in terms of race and sports. I am not saying that you are an ill-intentioned person or that you have anything against any race, but you are choosing to believe a racist stereotype and theory that has been used through the better part of the last century and this decade to diminish the accomplishments of black athletes across the globe.

And yes, it makes your statement false, because you choose to generalize and follow stereotypes that have little factual support. A small percentage of people that come from a minority part of Africa that possesses an advantage, has been blessed by fast-twitch superiority. Also it is very important to note, that the level of this superiority is highly contested and that estimates of 2-3% in terms of power and reaction times are something that is considered a realistic estimate. This really shows in a 100m sprint, where 1% is 0.1 seconds, but it really makes little difference in team sports.

Also, you have a general misunderstanding of fast-twitch athleticism. Everyone has fast-twitch fibers and mucles. All of the muscles in our body are made up of both types of fibers. The genetic mutation that I was mentioning, has a higher proportion of fast to slow twitch fibres in muscles, making it more adept at quick and explosive athleticism. Nile Valley people is the complete opposite. So, it's not something magical that happens for some people that others don't have it. And especially it's not connected to someone's skin color.

ja.he
08-31-2019, 11:59 PM
back to this topic. the defeat of philippines to italy was so disheatening to filipino fans right now. our head coach showed his inexperience in international basketball. it also not that this team has only a 12 days that all of them are together.

for me, it will take a drastic change of philosophy to solve this problem of the philippine basketball.

we actually started it when we hired coach toroman as head coach but it was abrupt by some filipino coaching staff despite the fact in 2011 (under toroman), we ended up 4th in asia - the best place finish after 24 years with 7 players were amateur. too much politics and in-fighting among stakeholders in philippine basketball is killing it.

Buzissa
09-01-2019, 04:11 AM
I have a feeling that Italy is gonna make some noise in this WC. Meaning, they will beat Spain in the second round.

Not because of this win, obviously.
I just think it is about time that Gallinari and Belinelli make something special together.

ctongco
09-01-2019, 05:18 AM
back to this topic. the defeat of philippines to italy was so disheatening to filipino fans right now. our head coach showed his inexperience in international basketball. it also not that this team has only a 12 days that all of them are together.

for me, it will take a drastic change of philosophy to solve this problem of the philippine basketball.

we actually started it when we hired coach toroman as head coach but it was abrupt by some filipino coaching staff despite the fact in 2011 (under toroman), we ended up 4th in asia - the best place finish after 24 years with 7 players were amateur. too much politics and in-fighting among stakeholders in philippine basketball is killing it.

That's what you get when a 3 year prep is scrapped for a month prep.

Tesla
09-02-2019, 02:19 AM
Bill Burr on fast twitch muscle fibres...

https://youtu.be/Pcrv_bfH0Xk

Hoopnation12
09-02-2019, 07:10 AM
Italy is the black horse of the tournament

Picek
09-02-2019, 07:32 AM
I just think it is about time that Gallinari and Belinelli make something special together.I have been thinking the same for years and still they didn't show it yet.
hoping they can maybe have a shot at it here.
they are one "proper big/defensive monster/offensive collecting points here and there" away from that.
also defensively as a whole team they are not a top tier team.
otherwise without a proper big they need a perfect shooting day to take down a powerhouse.
they would be even more fun to watch if Melli was here.

MrRager
09-02-2019, 12:15 PM
It looks like Philippines aren't even trying. Forget height and skills. They have no system, no defensive effort. Shame that a basketball country produces such a poor display.
I think they need to start watching less NBA and more Euroball. They will never produce NBA caliber players, but they can succeed if they would begin following strict system of Euroball.
Trying to play NBA type of game with crappy players turns out really bad.

ja.he
09-02-2019, 12:23 PM
It looks like Philippines aren't even trying. Forget height and skills. They have no system, no defensive effort. Shame that a basketball country produces such a poor display.
I think they need to start watching less NBA and more Euroball. They will never produce NBA caliber players, but they can succeed if they would begin following strict system of Euroball.
Trying to play NBA type of game with crappy players turns out really bad.

we already tried with rajko toroman. it was fun to watch. we achieved our best place finished fiba asia in 24 years in 2011 (we have 7 amateurs in that team). however, our stakeholders have unrealistic expectation. that's why he got sacked.

i agree that we need to go euroball but our local coaches prohibits foreigners to have head coaching jobs here.

Katastroika
09-02-2019, 12:26 PM
Picking Blatche over Clarkson is a one-way-ticket in a psychiatry. Whoever decided this should be put to court for national treason :)

MrRager
09-02-2019, 12:32 PM
we already tried with rajko toroman. it was fun to watch. we achieved our best place finished fiba asia in 24 years in 2011 (we have 7 amateurs in that team). however, our stakeholders have unrealistic expectation. that's why he got sacked.

i agree that we need to go euroball but our local coaches prohibits foreigners to have head coaching jobs here.

Just putting a euro coach for a few years or a tournament won't cut it. You need to start from scratch. Start with the kids. Then you can reap the results 10-15 years later.

ja.he
09-02-2019, 12:32 PM
Picking Blatche over Clarkson is a one-way-ticket in a psychiatry. Whoever decided this should be put to court for national treason :)

our coach logic: height>skills. fun fact, clarkson was the one making the instructions in the huddle last asian games. lol

Serbian_Layup
09-02-2019, 12:36 PM
Jokić might get TD.

ja.he
09-02-2019, 12:49 PM
Just putting a euro coach for a few years or a tournament won't cut it. You need to start from scratch. Start with the kids. Then you can reap the results 10-15 years later.

we need changes in basketball philosophy and having foreign coaches and skill coaches. passing of knowledge is important and we can't have it our current local coaches.

LjutiKrilo
09-02-2019, 01:04 PM
It looks like Philippines aren't even trying. Forget height and skills. They have no system, no defensive effort. Shame that a basketball country produces such a poor display.
I think they need to start watching less NBA and more Euroball. They will never produce NBA caliber players, but they can succeed if they would begin following strict system of Euroball.
Trying to play NBA type of game with crappy players turns out really bad.


whole asia needs to watch more euro ball... especially china
but bright lights of NBA are too bright, too dazzling...


asia should go step by step... first ˝conquer˝ south america, then australia/new zealand, then europe... and you can try a shot vs americans

Dtown
09-02-2019, 01:14 PM
whole asia needs to watch more euro ball... especially china
but bright lights of NBA are too bright, too dazzling...


asia should go step by step... first ˝conquer˝ south america, then australia/new zealand, then europe... and you can try a shot vs americans

They don't have the best record against Africa either...

The Philippines are making a strong case for the mercy rule right now. Putting up 120+ points in a 40 minute game is obscene

CoachZ
09-02-2019, 01:20 PM
What is the most impressive in the first two games, besides the weak opponents and the huge margin of victory, is the fact that Serbia has shattered the assists record in back-to-back games. Against Angola we had 32 assists in 40 minutes, against the Philippines we have 37 assists. Mind that all of this is without Milos Teodosic. Both are WC records.

This is the key to Serbia's system, and it has been for the last 5 years. Superior ball movement and passing of all players, creates a lot of scoring opportunities, a lot of easy shots that elevate players that might not have some elite quality. No wonder then that guys like Bircevic can score etc.

We have been a bit lazy on defense sometimes in the first two games, but that doesn't really matter. I am curious to see how we respond against Italy on defense. That is the key to our long term success.

Katastroika
09-02-2019, 01:21 PM
This was one of the worst things I have seen. I can't even be happy because of the win. Embarassing for FIBA!

Dtown
09-02-2019, 01:25 PM
Now that that mauling is officially over Serbia and Italy are through to the next round, and their game on Wednesday is essentially a 2nd round game.

iskoch
09-02-2019, 01:30 PM
we need changes in basketball philosophy and having foreign coaches and skill coaches. passing of knowledge is important and we can't have it our current local coaches.

I told u just before the game bro. And believe me if Serbia wanted to play defence, you wouldnt score more than 30 points...
Your only mistake is overestimating your basketball level, nothing else. Stop blaming your coaches and players. That's just what they are capable...



Bro don't take offence but if you have 4 years of preparation period for the tournament, u will still get beaten by any european team at least by 30. If they wanna do it by 60-70 also possible...

Don't be so frustrated, just accept the fact that ur league is completely useless and basketball level is not better than u15 level in europe.

BiHBasket
09-02-2019, 01:48 PM
This is a joke, Serbia couldn't do this to any of top 40 European national teams, even some local amateur basketball team in Europe where players have 8 hours job would make them more trouble.

Dtown
09-02-2019, 02:46 PM
Getting past bad Basketball. The next group is mostly set.

Serbia, Italy, Spain, and the winner of Puerto Rico/Tunisia.

Serbian_Layup
09-02-2019, 04:30 PM
https://twitter.com/ByTimReynolds/status/1168512088811159552?s=09

Jokić is reminding me a lot of his Nuggets games when he is just trying to get everybody involved early on in the season without even looking at the basket. It's like he is studying his teammates and their favorite spots on the floor before he takes it to another level. In my opinion, these two games were just what Serbia needed before facing stronger opponents, particularly for this reason.

radallo
09-02-2019, 05:08 PM
We have been a bit lazy on defense sometimes in the first two games, but that doesn't really matter. I am curious to see how we respond against Italy on defense. That is the key to our long term success.

Yeah.. I curious too, but I guess you're less worried than me ;)

Hepcat
09-02-2019, 09:54 PM
What is the most impressive in the first two games, besides the weak opponents and the huge margin of victory, is the fact that Serbia has shattered the assists record in back-to-back games. Against Angola we had 32 assists in 40 minutes, against the Philippines we have 37 assists.... Both are WC records.

So did you take the OVER with Serbian players and destroy your bookie again?

:confused:

Modis
09-02-2019, 10:11 PM
So did you take the OVER with Serbian players and destroy your bookie again?

:confused:

I am surprised the bookies like Boylesports were i usually bet still let you win at least some money in this world cup the odds are not that bad for the favourites. In football there's no chance the odds would be like 1/1000.

Darrell Armstrong
09-02-2019, 10:12 PM
What is the most impressive in the first two games, besides the weak opponents and the huge margin of victory, is the fact that Serbia has shattered the assists record in back-to-back games.

No, the most impressive fact is this:

Point differential of Serbia is +105, Italy is +77. Point differential of Angola is -77, Philippines is -105. Do the math and you'll shit bricks.

usagre
09-02-2019, 10:22 PM
No, the most impressive fact is this:

Point differential of Serbia is +105, Italy is +77. Point differential of Angola is -77, Philippines is -105. Do the math and you'll shit bricks.

To put the +105 in perspective it’s the biggest margin in the first two games since 1986. No USA teams ever accomplished this type of margin in their first two games, not even 1992 Dream team.

1986 Yugoslavia + 107
1986 Canada. + 104

Malaysia starring in the role of the Philippines back then.

Darrell Armstrong
09-02-2019, 10:32 PM
To put the +105 in perspective it’s the biggest margin in the first two games since 1986. No USA teams ever accomplished this type of margin in their first two games, not even 1992 Dream team.

1986 Yugoslavia + 107
1986 Canada. + 104

Malaysia starring in the role of the Philippines back then.

It wasn't about the margins. Think about it: Serbia makes a single basket more against Angola, and the numbers no longer match. Or if Italy allows Philippines one extra point. They obviously did it on purpose!

Levenspiel
09-02-2019, 11:27 PM
it may sound absurd considering the scores, but I thought Perez from PHI was quite good in both games.

CoachZ
09-02-2019, 11:48 PM
So did you take the OVER with Serbian players and destroy your bookie again?

:confused:

Won about 400 euros today on the Serbs, then lost 200 on Russians, with Kurbanov and Karasev fucking me, Kurbanov by 1 point and Karasev by 2. In a close game nonetheless :D

So, not that bad. Live to fight another day. Tomorrow seems a solid day for betting. Putting my faith into Grigonis :D

usagre
09-02-2019, 11:58 PM
Won about 400 euros today on the Serbs, then lost 200 on Russians, with Kurbanov and Karasev fucking me, Kurbanov by 1 point and Karasev by 2. In a close game nonetheless :D

So, not that bad. Live to fight another day. Tomorrow seems a solid day for betting. Putting my faith into Grigonis :D

Speaking of gambling check out this parlay I made a month ago when Serbia was 10-1 to win the tournament. Now they like almost 2-1. I parlayed Serbia and the Lakers to win the NBA finals for $200 at a pay out of 63-1.
$12,600.

CoachZ
09-02-2019, 11:59 PM
To put the +105 in perspective it’s the biggest margin in the first two games since 1986. No USA teams ever accomplished this type of margin in their first two games, not even 1992 Dream team.

1986 Yugoslavia + 107
1986 Canada. + 104

Malaysia starring in the role of the Philippines back then.

Cool stats. I am still mad about that 1986, we had it in the bag :D

Another cool fact. Serbia is by far the tallest/biggest team at the WC2019. Our average height is 206cm, which comes out at around 6'9''.

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 12:01 AM
Speaking of gambling check out this parlay I made a month ago when Serbia was 10-1 to win the tournament. Now they like almost 2-1. I parlayed Serbia and the Lakers to win the NBA finals for $200 at a pay out of 63-1.
$12,600.

Lebron will be the end of you. We both know it :D

Serbia has a better chance of beating Team USA, than Lakers winning the title this year.

usagre
09-03-2019, 12:06 AM
Lebron will be the end of you. We both know it :D

Serbia has a better chance of beating Team USA, than Lakers winning the title this year.

You know me Coach I am gonna go down swinging with the King. Two biggest gambling regrets about bets I never made:
The Cavs to win the series in ‘16 after down 3-1. It was like 12 or 15-1. I just had a feeling LeBron was going to pull it off.
And back in 1996 before the first Tyson-Holyfield fight when early on Tyson was an enormous favorite. Holyfield was a 25-1 underdog at one point. And I was always a Holyfield guy.

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 12:11 AM
You know me Coach I am gonna go down swinging with the King. Two biggest gambling regrets about bets I never made:
The Cavs to win the series in ‘16 after down 3-1. It was like 12 or 15-1. I just had a feeling LeBron was going to pull it off.
And back in 1996 before the first Tyson-Holyfield fight when early on Tyson was an enormous favorite. Holyfield was a 25-1 underdog at one point. And I was always a Holyfield guy.

Hey cool story about Evander. I always liked him as well. Soft-spoken, grinder, great guy overall.

I won money on the last 2 GS - CLE series. 10-1 odds on 4-1 series for GS and 12-1 a year later on a sweep :D

Buzissa
09-03-2019, 12:41 AM
I have been thinking the same for years and still they didn't show it yet.
hoping they can maybe have a shot at it here.
they are one "proper big/defensive monster/offensive collecting points here and there" away from that.
also defensively as a whole team they are not a top tier team.
otherwise without a proper big they need a perfect shooting day to take down a powerhouse.
they would be even more fun to watch if Melli was here.

Yeah, Melli would be huge for them. Still, they got Datome, Hackett, Brooks and few decent role players for limited minutes.
I don't know, I just really liked them at EB'17 and they were without Gallinari then.

I am a strong believer in this competition. Banking on them to beat Spain in the 2nd round.

xenoloxy
09-03-2019, 04:41 AM
it may sound absurd considering the scores, but I thought Perez from PHI was quite good in both games.

Him, Bolick and Fajardo seem to be the only ones giving their all.

MosesKhan
09-03-2019, 06:44 AM
Final score 126-67. Just a totally devastating offensive performance. The Philippines aren't a good side but that was still hugely impressive and the best performance of the tournament so far for me.

Really egalitarian too. 7 players scoring in double figures, 3 players with at least 5 assists. Jokic was 11/7/7 and didn't miss a field goal, while Bjelica led the scoring with 20 points, 4/4 from 2 and 3/3 from deep.

ctongco
09-03-2019, 06:51 AM
I'm torn between hoping we win (Angola and in the placement rounds) and losing all (in the hope that the PBA wakes up).

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 11:19 AM
Another stat line that is just amazing. Yes, the opponents were not up to par but:

- Serbia is shooting 70.6% from the field in the first two games.
- Serbia is shooting 59.5% from 3 in the first two games.

The only teams that come close is Greece with 56.9% from the field and France with 45% from 3.

Hepcat
09-03-2019, 05:40 PM
Won about 400 euros today on the Serbs, then lost 200 on Russians, with Kurbanov and Karasev fucking me, Kurbanov by 1 point and Karasev by 2. In a close game nonetheless :D

I guess they didn't want you getting first crack at all the best hookers.


Tomorrow seems a solid day for betting. Putting my faith into Grigonis :D

Whoops! I'm not sure you won that one despite Lithuania's big victory.

:confused:

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 05:54 PM
I guess they didn't want you getting first crack at all the best hookers.



Whoops! I'm not sure you won that one despite Lithuania's big victory.

:confused:

I am getting frustrated :D He had 8, I needed 9. Just crazy...

Jonas did it again with 13 points, needed 15 :D He is shooting like 80% from the field but he just doesn't shoot much :D

Italian Pride
09-03-2019, 07:58 PM
Tomorrow we have 20% to win the game,but if there is a kind of basketball that give us more chance,this is run and gun,better known like Meo's basketball,our Mike d antoni

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 08:06 PM
Tomorrow we have 20% to win the game,but if there is a kind of basketball that give us more chance,this is run and gun,better known like Meo's basketball,our Mike d antoni

I strongly advise against that :D This team can run very well, that's how you got blown out in the first game in the prep.

The key is to play like the second game, make every possession a long one, a tough one and make us solve attacks with ISO and 1 on 1 solutions. Switch everything, make people make shots.

Toruko
09-03-2019, 08:09 PM
Yeah unfortunately Serbs can play fast as well as slow. hahahahahaha

Italian Pride
09-03-2019, 08:13 PM
Yeah unfortunately Serbs can play fast as well as slow. hahahahahaha

The philosophy of our coach is very simple:if you have a good shot after 5-6-7 seconds take it,no matter if you miss the shot,if there s a good shot take it

With low tempo basketball we don t have any chance IMO,only gentile and gallinari can attack the rim with their big bodies under the basket

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 08:29 PM
The philosophy of our coach is very simple:if you have a good shot after 5-6-7 seconds take it,no matter if you miss the shot,if there s a good shot take it

With low tempo basketball we don t have any chance IMO,only gentile and gallinari can attack the rim with their big bodies under the basket

You don't have to play slow pace and attack the rim. You can still run motions, free up shooters etc. You just don't push the tempo, when you are outgunned. You try to lower the number of possesions, run sets to free up shooters which you have and then if you have a solid shooting day you can win. You want Jovic, Micic, Bogdanovic, Bjelica, Jokic, Lucic, Guduric in transition all the time with Run n Gun, that is just a bad idea...

Jazz
09-03-2019, 08:37 PM
The philosophy of our coach is very simple:if you have a good shot after 5-6-7 seconds take it,no matter if you miss the shot,if there s a good shot take it

With low tempo basketball we don t have any chance IMO,only gentile and gallinari can attack the rim with their big bodies under the basket

Slightly off topic here, but do you think it's still true that the Italian league is very three point oriented? I watched a few games last season and the teams did seem to live up to the stereotype, but I'm not sure if there's any stats easily available to check the number of three pointers taken in Serie A vs the ACB or other leagues. I'm also wondering what it evolved out of, was it that dominant Siena team that set this template or something else?

Toxicity
09-03-2019, 09:19 PM
I strongly advise against that :D This team can run very well, that's how you got blown out in the first game in the prep.

The key is to play like the second game, make every possession a long one, a tough one and make us solve attacks with ISO and 1 on 1 solutions. Switch everything, make people make shots.

Agree... the only chance for Italy NT is to lower the tempo of the game and make them struggle to score the ball... and obviously having a good 3p shoting percentage!

Italian Pride
09-03-2019, 09:21 PM
Slightly off topic here, but do you think it's still true that the Italian league is very three point oriented? I watched a few games last season and the teams did seem to live up to the stereotype, but I'm not sure if there's any stats easily available to check the number of three pointers taken in Serie A vs the ACB or other leagues. I'm also wondering what it evolved out of, was it that dominant Siena team that set this template or something else?

Yes i think it s right

In my opinion different reasons:first of all n italian league we watch many American similar playground players and less european/player sistem player; then we have few teams that played the main important european competition like euroleague and eurocup,so almost all the team build their roster with many combo guards or wings and rarely with true pivot

Katastroika
09-03-2019, 09:28 PM
Brooks will have to play the game of his life defensively. But for me it's absolutely possible that Italy takes this. Why not. They have a squad that can score out of everything. I whitnessed with my own eyes how they destroyed Spain 2015 in Berlin as I supported Serbia there for the group stage and game was in the same building as ours. They shut the lights out. Belinelli hit step back 3s on one foot from 9 metres. They can get in scoring rage. But from all good teams I think Serbia is the one that matches them the worst and they will have serious troubles in the paint.

For both teams a crucial games if they want to advance without situation to have a do or die game vs Spain. Not to mention that Spain could fix the game (if possible) vs. Italy as they would play last round if we lose tomorrow. Like they did in 2013.

Toruko
09-03-2019, 09:33 PM
Brooks will have to play the game of his life defensively. But for me it's absolutely possible that Italy takes this. Why not. They have a squad that can score out of everything. I whitnessed with my own eyes how they destroyed Spain 2015 in Berlin as I supported Serbia there for the group stage and game was in the same building as ours. They shut the lights out. Belinelli hit step back 3s on one foot from 9 metres. They can get in scoring rage. But from all good teams I think Serbia is the one that matches them the worst and they will have serious troubles in the paint.

For both teams a crucial games if they want to advance without situation to have a do or die game vs Spain. Not to mention that Spain could fix the game (if possible) vs. Italy as they would play last round if we lose tomorrow. Like they did in 2013.

Well they are weak in the paint. Jokic most likely will be used as a classic center but he can also play make from the paint and the defense of italy was always a question mark but they will give many rebounds.

Katastroika
09-03-2019, 09:37 PM
It's hard to predict - but I think no. I expect also some of Jokic - Bjelica, but also a lot Milutinov - Jokic - Bjelica (maybe even more). The situation when Jokic receives ball at high post to facilitate further (nominally PF) worked unexpectedly well so far. I really don't see how Italy can defend this in a ongoing manner. Defensively of course we would have the question if we should burn Jokic hunting down Galinari around the perimeter.

Toruko
09-03-2019, 09:43 PM
Its a pity that Jokic cant be used like denver does it but it changes your entire defensive habits using jokic as point center but never change a running system. Serbia doesnt need crucially Jokic fully expanded play making abilities.

Katastroika
09-03-2019, 09:46 PM
To use Jokic like this you need players with this abilities (in persona Nedovic who is like created from God to play this role). This was by the way a major topic in Serbian media and basketball fan community. A lot of potential assists were read badly from his teammates during preparation period even they've been perfect the cutter mishandled the ball, chose wrong direction etc. But it workds better and better. Jovic, (especially) Micic, Guduric (reads those assists perfectly, didn't expect this to be honest), Bogdan of course all took easy buckets from Jokara. But of course it won't be the same and can't be the same. I'm by the way going with you and are strongly pro Jokic-centric offense but many many people (you wouldn't believe how many) are strictly against this. At the end the result will show tomorrow if we did wrong. We should not die in beauty, a hard fought victory is what this team needs most.

PS: For Nedovic - this is opinion of overwhelming majority. Personally I think that he always had many negative issues and one of them was problems with finishing under contact which all now chosen guards don't have (some less, some more, but it's okay). This is one of the crucial things you have to bring with you when you want to play Denver style. Murray, Harris, Morris and Beasley developed incredible strong attitude in finishing under contact. Barton has so many bad caracteristics but this is also one of his strengths.

Darrell Armstrong
09-03-2019, 09:48 PM
Brooks will have to play the game of his life defensively. But for me it's absolutely possible that Italy takes this. Why not. They have a squad that can score out of everything. I whitnessed with my own eyes how they destroyed Spain 2015 in Berlin as I supported Serbia there for the group stage and game was in the same building as ours. They shut the lights out. Belinelli hit step back 3s on one foot from 9 metres. They can get in scoring rage. But from all good teams I think Serbia is the one that matches them the worst and they will have serious troubles in the paint.

For both teams a crucial games if they want to advance without situation to have a do or die game vs Spain. Not to mention that Spain could fix the game (if possible) vs. Italy as they would play last round if we lose tomorrow. Like they did in 2013.

Under current tie break rules it's extremely easy for the two teams playing last to fix the game and ensure both of them advance. But at the same time it's very unlikely. If Italy beats Serbia and Serbia beats Spain, Italy could lose the last game by a big margin so Spain ends up with the largest point difference, wins the group and then Italy advances as the 2nd team. But they run the risk of losing by not enough points and then Serbia would be 1st and Spain 2nd, or Italy 1st and Serbia 2nd. So it has to be a not-so-subtle job for both teams involved. I don't think they will run the risk of being caught cheating when both teams have the option of advancing by fair means.

Katastroika
09-03-2019, 09:54 PM
But that's what I said. If the game allows the possibility and the result develops in this direction in the last game the chance is there. Not more not less. Should be taken into consideration. Everyone did this once. Spain, Serbia, all. No hard feelings on that one.

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 10:09 PM
To use Jokic like this you need players with this abilities (in persona Nedovic who is like created from God to play this role). This was by the way a major topic in Serbian media and basketball fan community. A lot of potential assists were read badly from his teammates during preparation period even they've been perfect the cutter mishandled the ball, chose wrong direction etc. But it workds better and better. Jovic, (especially) Micic, Guduric (reads those assists perfectly, didn't expect this to be honest), Bogdan of course all took easy buckets from Jokara. But of course it won't be the same and can't be the same. I'm by the way going with you and are strongly pro Jokic-centric offense but many many people (you wouldn't believe how many) are strictly against this. At the end the result will show tomorrow if we did wrong. We should not die in beauty, a hard fought victory is what this team needs most.

PS: For Nedovic - this is opinion of overwhelming majority. Personally I think that he always had many negative issues and one of them was problems with finishing under contact which all now chosen guards don't have (some less, some more, but it's okay). This is one of the crucial things you have to bring with you when you want to play Denver style. Murray, Harris, Morris and Beasley developed incredible strong attitude in finishing under contact. Barton has so many bad caracteristics but this is also one of his strengths.

Well, there are many more issues then the ones you have mentioned.

- The court is smaller, so it is much more difficult to cut in a congested space.
- Prevalence of zone defense and no defensive 3 seconds, can always have a defender in the low post to stop the frontal and baseline runners.
- Teams know that Jokic is always a pass first guy and sometimes can be reluctant scorer. They will all prefer to cut off the passing lanes and make Jokic score. It's a tougher given point then an easy open 3 or cut to the basket.

Regarding the Jokic-centric offense. That is coming 100%. The way we are built now, we have a whole generation that will be gone probably after the Olympics next year, most definitely after Eurobasket 2021. There will be no Teodosic, Bjelica, Marjanovic, Jovic, Simonovic etc. Our core will be Micic, Bogdanovic, Guduric, Jokic, Milutinov and Kalinic. I expect Jokic to take over more of offense then and grow into his Denver-style role. It's important to keep in mind that even in the old days, of Drazen Petrovic, Kukoc, or Kicanovic, Dalipagic when we have total bucket machines, we never ran a system that focuses fully on one player and letting him work. So, I believe that whoever is the coach in the future, will not let Jokic have a Pau Gasol style free reign, or Nowitzki etc. He will always be a lesser version of himself in the NT, individually, hopefully for the better of the team.

Katastroika
09-03-2019, 10:15 PM
Point 1 and 2 are quite obvious factors. For point 3 we will see, I'm really not sure about that one. I realized that many teams make the error to help on Jokic as soon as he receives the ball (overhelping) which opens the mentioned passing lanes. Just remember what he did in first two games in Athens. Even Filipinos tried to help a lot on him (if not always) but that shouldn't bother us too much as he always takes the right decision. I also saw interview with Bogdan today (I think on SK channel) where he told he expects a lot of double teaming for big guys (but to be more precise he didn't name Jokic).

gideon
09-04-2019, 01:38 AM
Angola should beat the Philippines by around 10-15 points, really think the filos will go 0-5.

Serbs should take care of italy as i think italys frontline is way too soft.

ja.he
09-04-2019, 01:44 AM
Angola should beat the Philippines by around 10-15 points, really think the filos will go 0-5.

Serbs should take care of italy as i think italys frontline is way too soft.

the better as some of my fellow filipinos say - to get rid of our current coach and to make some dramatic changes in our program. but in my mind, i don't want to see the philippine team winless.

gideon
09-04-2019, 03:00 AM
i don't want to see the philippine team winless.

A bit of competitiveness would be a good start, in the first two games while being inferior to opposition in almost every aspect skill, size, iq they also showed a lack of effort and competitive spirit. While watching other minnow countries in this tournament so far the same can't be said. While out matched talent wise other nations have showed some fight and grit while representing their nations. Unfortunately this is not something that can be said for this Filipino squad. Would be happy to see them put up a good fight in the next few games as i do love the passion the fans have for the game and they do deserve better.

Rodrigue Beaubois
09-04-2019, 08:42 AM
Can someone from Philippines explain why Perez isn't playing more? He is the only player in this team whose game resembles serious basketball.

xenoloxy
09-04-2019, 08:47 AM
Can someone from Philippines explain why Perez isn't playing more? He is the only player in this team whose game resembles serious basketball.

Coach is a bum,

MrRager
09-04-2019, 08:49 AM
I swear I had more fun watching u16 women Eurobasket than Ang-Phi.
EDIT: My hometown (population 10k) team composed of those few men who are not complete drunks would probably give a good fight to this Philippines squad.

xenoloxy
09-04-2019, 09:09 AM
Perez outperforming the vets. Stupid team.

iskoch
09-04-2019, 11:47 AM
Italy-Serbia started simply excellent and i realized that didnt see such high level of basketball for a long time and euroleague died.

AmonRA
09-04-2019, 11:56 AM
did u just saw, how retarded referee after watched replay, call 3 point for italy, and belinellis foot was like 10 cm over 3pt line..

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 12:04 PM
If Italy continues to shoot like that I think they have a good chance to take it. Djordjevic should a little step down from his rotations, he rotates every 30 seconds.

Interesting how stupid fouls Serbia takes with 2 on the shot clock after very good defensive work. Overmotivated.

Jokic cheat code in FIBA. Maybe the most dominate big after Gasol. Hope really he plays a lot more constantly.

radallo
09-04-2019, 12:06 PM
did u just saw, how retarded referee after watched replay, call 3 point for italy, and belinellis foot was like 10 cm over 3pt line..

Apparently, their logic was of a floater, not of a jump shot.
They commented that at the moment of the ball release, the left foot was outside the arc and the right one not on the floor...

I was also surprised with the call

AmonRA
09-04-2019, 12:09 PM
Apparently, their logic was of a floater, not of a jump shot.
They commented that at the moment of the ball release, the left foot was outside the arc and the right one not on the floor...

I was also surprised with the call
i was never heard or see for this rule.. iam still under impression, and cant watch the game from that moment lol

Lyonswim
09-04-2019, 12:11 PM
Jovic is on fire today!

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 12:14 PM
Very bad refs. On both sides. Incredible amateurs.

CoachZ
09-04-2019, 12:17 PM
Jovic, heart of the champion. Dude is always clutch.

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 12:20 PM
I like a lot how Italy spreads the floor. Our help comes to late always. Luckily Gentile is a ballhog and doesn't facilitate. Without him Italy a much better team.

Toruko
09-04-2019, 12:21 PM
Italy is starting to play a bit dirty. Jokic should control his emotions. :D

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 12:23 PM
They play hard and fair. It's not their fault that the referees are a shame.

Very good game of Italy. They will cause a lot of problems also to Spain.

CoachZ
09-04-2019, 12:25 PM
Refs are abysmall. I counted 10+ mistakes in the first half. Not favoring anybody, just doing a terrible job. Way too many mistakes for this level of basketball.

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 12:27 PM
Both sides shoot in a similar way. Italy 2% better, rebounds +8 for Serbia. Both are hitting difficult shots. Hope we can find better solutions in second half, I don't think that Jovic can shoot like this in second half. Position SF heaviest weakspot of Serbia, as expected.

MrRager
09-04-2019, 12:27 PM
I am sure that Jokic is eating some area 51 type genetically modified food in order for him to be just the way he is. I cannot explain it in any other way.

Nemanja
09-04-2019, 12:36 PM
I dont like how we played first half .In defense so many mistakes ,especially of Jokic .Offensively ,our play is based on individual qualities of Bogdanovic and Jokic and using weakness defense of Italy .Many unincluded players ,almost half team ,that s not good .

Straight forward
09-04-2019, 12:41 PM
Hacket sucks at both ends in the third...

Levenspiel
09-04-2019, 12:43 PM
man, you gotta love Italy. do all your analyses, evaluations, whatever, they can just beat anyone any given day.

radallo
09-04-2019, 12:49 PM
I believe there are 20 or more point margin between Italy and Serbia, and I am still convinced the final result will prove that.

Nemanja
09-04-2019, 12:57 PM
They play hard and fair. It's not their fault that the referees are a shame.

Very good game of Italy. They will cause a lot of problems also to Spain.

In first half,at least for 3 fouls Italy is harmed .For example situation,when our 4 players made foul on Gallinari ,refreess didnt show unsportsmanlike foul.

Straight forward
09-04-2019, 01:03 PM
The game became boring FTs fiesta...

SaliH
09-04-2019, 01:04 PM
I turned the game off in the 3rd after so many free throws... After yesterday I just feel like puking every time I watch fouls. :D

radallo
09-04-2019, 01:16 PM
Agree.. refs started to blow every touch.. now the game lost some of its beauty..

iskoch
09-04-2019, 01:16 PM
Watching Serbia's defensive spacing is a much better pleasure than orgasm.

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 01:31 PM
The referees allowed that this turned nervous. Incredibly bad refereeing.

Additionally, what I wrote in advance of this tournament, noone can tune up in 2 minutes like Serbia, this is very valuable.

Respect to Italy for this hard fight. We needed this.

Levenspiel
09-04-2019, 01:36 PM
I believe there are 20 or more point margin between Italy and Serbia, and I am still convinced the final result will prove that.
yeah, you turned out to be right in the end, but unpredictability of Italy is still amazing.

Nemanja
09-04-2019, 01:36 PM
I wrote about Jokic rudeness ,I m ashamed because one of the leader of our team obviously is shameless ,who thinks because successes in Denver can be indecent in any sense .I mean on that idiot incident with Hacket,and on similar incident on preparations game also against Italy ,and missing final Acropolis cup because private bussiness .

Dtown
09-04-2019, 01:37 PM
After this game I have no problem saying Serbia is the favorite going forward.

Burek
09-04-2019, 01:38 PM
I wrote about Jokic rudeness ,I m ashamed because one of the leader of our team obviously is shameless ,who thinks because successes in Denver can be indecent in any sense .I mean on that idiot incident with Hacket,and on similar incident on preparations game also against Italy ,and missing final Acropolis cup because private bussiness .
Yes, you wrote plenty. You can stop now.

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 01:39 PM
I wrote about Jokic rudeness ,I m ashamed because one of the leader of our team obviously is shameless ,who thinks because successes in Denver can be indecent in any sense .I mean on that idiot incident with Hacket,and on similar incident on preparations game also against Italy ,and missing final Acropolis cup because private bussiness .

Is there anything good, too? Everything is bad for you. We have 3-0. That's a good achievement. Relax.

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 01:45 PM
I don't like +/- that much for analysis but Gentile hast -26 in 24min. This guy is such a cancer for every team he has played.

BTW: Sachetti was for sure happy with all this negative climate on the floor, he started a legendary fight between Italy and Yugoslavia in the 80s by hitting Grbovic :) :)

Tesla
09-04-2019, 01:49 PM
Jokić appears some combination of enthusiastic and crazy.

Nemanja
09-04-2019, 01:56 PM
What 3-0 ,dont kidding me .Before tournament we talk about gold or whichever medal ,by the way I think its egaxeration . Now ,we should be satisfied because we won against Italy .That win we got in some strange circumstances,where half team were indisposed ,where Bogdanovic scored 31 points ,what is bad becayse isnt good our best player so much wasted ,though in order that half team isnt even included in game ,also against Philipines and Angola without reason he is used in that measure .

Also, game in which Jokic risks exclusion from game,because stupid pushing Hacket 2 minutes before the end ,and that is not first incident for him .I m so sorry,but i dont see reasons for optimism .We move in direction in which probably we will not get even a medal .

vuxsa
09-04-2019, 01:59 PM
What 3-0 ,dont kidding me .Before tournament we talk about gold or whichever medal ,by the way I think its egaxeration . Now ,we should be satisfied because we won against Italy .That win we got in some strange circumstances,where half team were indisposed ,where Bogdanovic scored 31 points ,what is bad becayse isnt good our best player so much wasted ,though in order that half team isnt even included in game ,also against Philipines and Angola without reason he is used in that measure .

Also, game in which Jokic risks exclusion from game,because stupid pushing Hacket 2 minutes before the end ,and that is not first incident for him .I m so sorry,but i dont see reasons for optimism .We move in direction in which probably we will not get even a medal .

Whacha been smokin' man?;)

CoachZ
09-04-2019, 02:00 PM
I don't like +/- that much for analysis but Gentile hast -26 in 24min. This guy is such a cancer for every team he has played.

BTW: Sachetti was for sure happy with all this negative climate on the floor, he started a legendary fight between Italy and Yugoslavia in the 80s by hitting Grbovic :) :)

Hahahhaah, yeah crazy Sachetti went at even crazier Grbovic who pulled the scissors from the team doctor hahahaha :D

Routine win today, with some notes:

- Big lineups suffered today. Looked much better when Jokic had room to work inside, rather than having him at PF and floating around the perimeter.
- Defensively we are still not where we need to be for the knockout phase. I think it's more a psychological thing, where they got a bit lazy in the first 2 easy games and now faced a team that can actually score on them, unless they play hard defense.
- Bjelica had a terrible shooting day, but he was just awesome everywhere else. In the game where Italians managed to limit the top creative trio of Jovic-Micic-Jokic to total 7 assists, Bjelica dished 9 himself along with Bogdanovic's 5. This is the key to our strength, even when you lock up the primary creators of the offense, you still have to deal with these other guys, who on 99% of the teams would be running the offense themselves in the first place.

Katastroika
09-04-2019, 02:14 PM
What 3-0 ,dont kidding me .Before tournament we talk about gold or whichever medal ,by the way I think its egaxeration . Now ,we should be satisfied because we won against Italy .That win we got in some strange circumstances,where half team were indisposed ,where Bogdanovic scored 31 points ,what is bad becayse isnt good our best player so much wasted ,though in order that half team isnt even included in game ,also against Philipines and Angola without reason he is used in that measure .

Also, game in which Jokic risks exclusion from game,because stupid pushing Hacket 2 minutes before the end ,and that is not first incident for him .I m so sorry,but i dont see reasons for optimism .We move in direction in which probably we will not get even a medal .

Brate, relax! Today we won a dogfight against a team that was shoting 43% for 3 and put us in the bonus after 2 1/2 minutes in 3rd quarter. What else do you want? We had response for everything. Of course some thing didn't work out as they should, also I'm worried a little about Guduric but we knew that we will not fly through the tournament like in Zagreb 1989. Italy is a very good team. I hope you can at least enjoy the victory. A victory over Puerto Rico is the thing we need (most likely) for quarterfinal. We won by good margin, too, which can be very important.

Srle
09-04-2019, 03:37 PM
Rudeness lol.

Nemanja
09-04-2019, 04:16 PM
Rudeness lol.

Rude ,bounder hayeseed one of these words match conduct of Jokic .If you have some other word for describe what he does ,I will glad if you divide with us .

Hepcat
09-04-2019, 04:45 PM
Watching Serbia's defensive spacing is a much better pleasure than orgasm.

I'd suggest trying more enticing partners.

;)

Obina
09-04-2019, 04:54 PM
What 3-0 ,dont kidding me .Before tournament we talk about gold or whichever medal ,by the way I think its egaxeration . Now ,we should be satisfied because we won against Italy .That win we got in some strange circumstances,where half team were indisposed ,where Bogdanovic scored 31 points ,what is bad becayse isnt good our best player so much wasted ,though in order that half team isnt even included in game ,also against Philipines and Angola without reason he is used in that measure .

Also, game in which Jokic risks exclusion from game,because stupid pushing Hacket 2 minutes before the end ,and that is not first incident for him .I m so sorry,but i dont see reasons for optimism .We move in direction in which probably we will not get even a medal .

What are you watching my friend... Italy played good game, tough with lot of contact, non tipically for italian NT + great 3pts percent. And still we won easily.

I can't wait for sunday and game vs Spain. Although they are not in good shape, I have feeling that we will see dangerous Spain in next stage.

Nemanja
09-04-2019, 05:25 PM
What are you watching my friend... Italy played good game, tough with lot of contact, non tipically for italian NT + great 3pts percent. And still we won easily.

I can't wait for sunday and game vs Spain. Although they are not in good shape, I have feeling that we will see dangerous Spain in next stage.

Italy played with lot of contact ,with Gallinari,Biligha and who else? Italy try to play with lot of contact,by that segment they are on amongst team on low level .What we didnt used how should ,that s because excluding centers and Jokic which moves on pf ,we havent player which make advantage on their position in contact .

Gudura
09-04-2019, 05:50 PM
Yes, you wrote plenty. You can stop now.

Can't agree more...Hackett deserved to be beaten until he sheets his pants...

Burek
09-04-2019, 06:04 PM
Can't agree more...Hackett deserved to be beaten until he sheets his pants...
Jokić should've known better, he does get emotional. My rant was for Nemanja in particular. Dude has a personal problem with Jokić

madmax
09-04-2019, 06:21 PM
Serbia's scored/allowed point differential is +120 after 3 games...that's freaking mental:eek:

Serbian_Layup
09-04-2019, 06:47 PM
Italy is much tougher than people think. Their frontcourt is undersized but very physical and annoying, they are not soft by no means.

Nemanja
09-04-2019, 07:48 PM
Jokić should've known better, he does get emotional. My rant was for Nemanja in particular. Dude has a personal problem with Jokić

Yes ,I have personal problem with Jokic,I loan him 100 Euros ,yet didnt back to me. Who are you to decide when I can stop write,because you disagree ?

Nemanja
09-04-2019, 08:35 PM
Guys ,while we discuss about Jokic and win against Italy .On prediciton game ,we are not even in top 5 .Today,I miss two games ,I saw some of you predicted on Russia against Argentina .Isnt pleasurable that Usa,Slovakia are over us .Let take more seriously .

Tesla
09-04-2019, 09:24 PM
It's good to have a crazy guy on your basketball team. Last time we were winning everything we had Milan Gurović.

Burek
09-04-2019, 11:20 PM
Yes ,I have personal problem with Jokic,I loan him 100 Euros ,yet didnt back to me. Who are you to decide when I can stop write,because you disagree ?
By all means, rant all you want. I'm here to rant about your obsession with him. Like a broken record, Jokić this, Jokić that. Mix it up a little. Say something positive once in a while just to throw us off a little

ja.he
09-05-2019, 12:26 AM
congrats to serbia for topping our group. i hope you make it all the way. goodluck.

Tesla
09-05-2019, 02:30 AM
congrats to serbia for topping our group. i hope you make it all the way. goodluck.

Filipinos are just about the nicest people you can get. Head up. Keep the passion going.