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Tevfik1907
08-05-2019, 02:13 PM
Lithuania (Fiba World Rank: 006)
Australia (Fiba World Rank: 011)
Canada (Fiba World Rank: 023)
Senegal (Fiba World Rank: 037)


1 September 2019

Canada - Australia
15:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Dongguan, Dongguan Basketball Center
Game day 1

Senegal - Lithuania
19:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Dongguan, Dongguan Basketball Center
Game day 1


3 September 2019

Australia - Senegal
15:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Dongguan, Dongguan Basketball Center
Game day 2

Lithuania - Canada
19:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Dongguan, Dongguan Basketball Center
Game day 2

5 September 2019

Canada - Senegal
15:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Dongguan, Dongguan Basketball Center
Game day 3

Lithuania - Australia
19:30 GMT+08
City, Arena: Dongguan, Dongguan Basketball Center
Game day 3

christodoulou76
08-05-2019, 02:37 PM
My prediction:

1. ???
2. ???
3. ???
4. Senegal

mojo13
08-05-2019, 02:53 PM
Canadian camp opens today and the public still does not know who will be there. Could have any where from 4 to 10 NBA players. Which is a laughable range.

All we know so far is Thompson, Powell and Barrett are out but there could be others. There were even reports of Wiggins being seen in public with Olynyk and Joseph in Toronto over the weekend (Carabina festival). Very doubtful, but you never know.

Valexander
08-05-2019, 03:08 PM
Number one Lithuania for me. And i ll place money on that. Underated team, i don't know if can reach the semis but it won't be a surprise. i am curious if kalnietis can switch to "NT Beast mode" for one last time.
Australia second and Canada slightly third, only because Canada doesn't have that fiba experience and team chemistry as the others, and they don't seem they value that tournament that much. Of course Canada has the talent to prove me wrong, but as for now that's the safest thought i can make.
Unfair for those 3. Lucky as who we 'll be on pizza-beer-cheers from day one.

Toruko
08-05-2019, 03:14 PM
1. Canada
2. LTU
3: AUS
....

for me. Canada is safe LTU vs AUS will be a hard fight.

Shawshank
08-05-2019, 03:38 PM
Lietuva and Australia experienced teams will overcome Canada's individual tallent.

Senegal will have good preparation for 17-32 places games.

Steadysoul
08-05-2019, 03:47 PM
1. Canada
2. LTU
3: AUS
....

for me. Canada is safe LTU vs AUS will be a hard fight.

You pick Canada without its top guys to finish first? That's bold. Now that we know Murray won't play I don't see them making it out. He was their last hope. No TT No Powell.

mojo13
08-05-2019, 03:49 PM
You pick Canada without its top guys to finish first? That's bold. Now that we know Murray won't play I don't see them making it out. He was their last hope. No TT No Powell.


Ummmm.... no everyone.

Camp list just was announced. this is a disaster. We dont have a chance to make it out of group.

No Jamal Murray, Dillon Brooks, Trey Lyles, Dwight Powell, Nik Stauskas, Tristan Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, RJ Barrett.
Let alone a load of other talent like Brandon Clarke, Nickeil Alexnder Walker, Mfiondu Kabengel, Andrew Nicholson, Anthony Bennett, Dylan and Tyler Ennis - it seems about 80% of our top talent decided not to show up. Just Pathetic.



I suppose we will look something like this:

Cory Joseph, Kevin Pangos , Aaron Best, Phil and Tommy Scrubb, Duane Notice , Brady Heslip

Maybe Brissett or Keane takes Notice's spot though. I dunno

Birch , Olynyk , Boucher , Wiltjer, Ejim

Running with some dang G-League benchwarmers here.

christodoulou76
08-05-2019, 03:51 PM
Group of Death is now Group of Mild Illness.

vivo
08-05-2019, 03:54 PM
Ummmm.... no everyone.

Camp list just was announced. this is a disaster. We dont have a chance to make it out of group.

No Jamal Murray, Dillon Brooks, Trey Lyles, Dwight Powell, Nik Stauskas, Tristan Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, RJ Barrett.
Let alone a load of other talent like Brandon Clarke, Nickeil Alexnder Walker, Mfiondu Kabengel, Andrew Nicholson, Anthony Bennett, Dylan and Tyler Ennis - it seems about 80% of our top talent decided not to show up. Just Pathetic.

Wait, what? I had just read an article that most players will show up. I can understand some of them but this many absentees is a disappointment

Steadysoul
08-05-2019, 03:55 PM
Ummmm.... no everyone.

Camp list just was announced. this is a disaster. We dont have a chance to make it out of group.

No Jamal Murray, Dillon Brooks, Trey Lyles, Dwight Powell, Nik Stauskas, Tristan Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, RJ Barrett.
Let alone a load of other talent like Brandon Clarke, Nickeil Alexander Walker, Mfiondu Kabengel, Andrew Nicholson, Anthony Bennett, Dylan and Tyler Ennis - it seems about 80% of our top talent decided not to show up. Just Pathetic.

I mean I didn't want to type out everyone missing but wow this is a disaster. It seems like Canada's golden era will have to be postponed yet again.

Steadysoul
08-05-2019, 03:56 PM
Wait, what? I had just read an article that most players will show up. I can understand some of them but this many absentees is a disappointment

Murray at camp but won't do part of the main roster

Dtown
08-05-2019, 04:22 PM
Australia
Lithuania
Canada
Senegal

Canada's no shows are disastrous, unlike the US they just don't have the depth or international experience to really make up for it. If they had been in say Group A, they could have likely gotten to the knock out stage in spite of this; but against Lithuania/Australia two teams with better established cores and more international success, I don't see where the wins come from.

soulis79
08-05-2019, 04:24 PM
Canada team hasn't succeed in all these years in FIBA competitions for various reasons. We still remember father Rautins, Jay Triano and nowadays the Great Steve Nash. I think there is a big problem. Canadians do not feel proud to represent their country. Some maybe feel more African players due to their heritage. Others maybe feel more Americans, some of them speak French. I really don't know what is going on in this country.

Some notes:
1.Nash and Nurse as executives. Players snub them. I think it's ridiculous.
2.Canada hasn't reach the podium in any major competition(World Cup -Olympics). Their best result is almost 40 years ago.
3.Canada team is not USA, not even Serbia-Argentina-Brazil-Greece-Italy-Spain-Lithuania etc. Their prestige was always mediocre.
4. Who is Patterson? Who is Omoruyi? We must be joking.
5. And finally players claim one-by-one injuries, professional reasons, family reasons etc.

The camp is filled with some good and solid players. They have proved their loyalty all this years. From the beginning it was a mistake to call 15 NBA players a month ago. In addition it is also wrong for us to believe that all these players who skipped the Worlds are something special. Most of them played only one year of professional basketball. I believe that Murray, Powell and Stauskas hurting the Canada team.

Good luck to the World Cup :)

JGX
08-05-2019, 04:47 PM
Nash set the tone when he quit playing for Canada just as he entered the prime of his career.

TBH still a decent roster, but releasing a wish list of invitees sets you up for a PR disaster.

mojo13
08-05-2019, 04:48 PM
Canada team hasn't succeed in all these years in FIBA competitions for various reasons. We still remember father Rautins, Jay Triano and nowadays the Great Steve Nash. I think there is a big problem. Canadians do not feel proud to represent their country. Some maybe feel more African players due to their heritage. Others maybe feel more Americans, some of them speak French. I really don't know what is going on in this country.

Some notes:
1.Nash and Nurse as executives. Players snub them. I think it's ridiculous.
2.Canada hasn't reach the podium in any major competition(World Cup -Olympics). Their best result is almost 40 years ago.
3.Canada team is not USA, not even Serbia-Argentina-Brazil-Greece-Italy-Spain-Lithuania etc. Their prestige was always mediocre.
4. Who is Patterson? Who is Omoruyi? We must be joking.
5. And finally players claim one-by-one injuries, professional reasons, family reasons etc.

The camp is filled with some good and solid players. They have proved their loyalty all this years. From the beginning it was a mistake to call 15 NBA players a month ago. In addition it is also wrong for us to believe that all these players who skipped the Worlds are something special. Most of them played only one year of professional basketball. I believe that Murray, Powell and Stauskas hurting the Canada team.

Good luck to the World Cup :)


Eugene Omoruyi is a NCAA player - Yeah, I didn't even know who he was (probably just a warm body at this point). Addison Patterson is an 18 year old NBA prospect. He is probably just there to get some experience - probably a good thing he is at camp.

I think Canada Basketball got caught with their pants down here and the NBA drop outs snuck up on them. Lots of rumors that there has been a strong push from agents and NBA clubs to get guys not to play. Obviously this has impacted the USA, Canada and African nations more than Europe. This doesn't seem much different from what the USA is going through, except it is strongly last minute (maybe they knew all along) and yes, we don't have the depth as the USA to get past this. But we have more depth than most other countries as evident by losing ~75% of our top talent, yet we can still field a decent team.

If we knew this was coming we could have pushed farther down the talent pool for guys who could have contributed, some in a really big way - Andrew Nicholson would have been huge at this point. Dylan Ennis, Aaron Doornekamp, Andy Rautins, Naz Mitrou Long, Nik Stauskas, Conor Morgan, Anthony Bennett.

We do have a huge cultural problem with commitment - and I really thought this was going to be the moment it changed. We have been working on it for the last five years, yet this disaster happens. You can read more about it here:
https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/opinion/2019/08/04/canadian-basketballs-golden-era-is-missing-a-golden-opportunity.html

Steadysoul
08-05-2019, 04:58 PM
Eugene Omoruyi is a NCAA player - Yeah, I didn't even know who he was (probably just a warm body at this point). Addison Patterson is an 18 year old NBA prospect. He is probably just there to get some experience - probably a good thing he is at camp.

I think Canada Basketball got caught with their pants down here and the NBA drop outs snuck up on them. Lots of rumors that there has been a strong push from agents and NBA clubs to get guys not to play. Obviously this has impacted the USA, Canada and African nations more than Europe. This doesn't seem much different from what the USA is going through, except it is strongly last minute (maybe they knew all along) and yes, we don't have the depth as the USA to get past this. But we have more depth than most other countries as evident by losing ~75% of our top talent, yet we can still field a decent team.

If we knew this was coming we could have pushed farther down the talent pool for guys who could have contributed, some in a really big way - Andrew Nicholson would have been huge at this point. Dylan Ennis, Aaron Doornekamp, Andy Rautins, Naz Mitrou Long, Nik Stauskas, Conor Morgan, Anthony Bennett.

We do have a huge cultural problem with commitment - and I really thought this was going to be the moment it changed. We have been working on it for the last five years, yet this disaster happens. You can read more about it here:
https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/opinion/2019/08/04/canadian-basketballs-golden-era-is-missing-a-golden-opportunity.html

In hindsight the late promotion of barrett and later hiring of Nurse were red flags that something was going to go wrong. Best move for Canada now would be to try to get players to buy in for what is likely to be a OQT berth while still trying to win as many games as they can.

Toruko
08-05-2019, 05:04 PM
You pick Canada without its top guys to finish first? That's bold. Now that we know Murray won't play I don't see them making it out. He was their last hope. No TT No Powell.

Murray is out? hahahahahahahahhaha I didnt know that. That changes a lot of course.

mojo13
08-05-2019, 05:34 PM
In hindsight the late promotion of barrett and later hiring of Nurse were red flags that something was going to go wrong. Best move for Canada now would be to try to get players to buy in for what is likely to be a OQT berth while still trying to win as many games as they can.

Best move for Canada right now is to gel a team with a good mix of NBA players and solid European pros, pull a couple upsets and shut everybody the hell up. There are far worse rosters that will make the final 8.

I for one will take 24 hours to moan and complain, then will start looking at how we can make this happen.

Shawshank
08-05-2019, 05:48 PM
But why this upcoming NBA season affected so much USA and Canada, but best Europeans are in.

For example Jokic and Murray is playing for same team and have same 20+ Mill. contracts

The problem is not NBA here,but players dedication for their NT.

Europeans feel pride representing their NT and no NBA agent or GM can change that.

If it would be free agency summer is one thing I can understand that, but all other summers is just players lack of dedication.

Steadysoul
08-05-2019, 06:01 PM
Best move for Canada right now is to gel a team with a good mix of NBA players and solid European pros, pull a couple upsets and shut everybody the hell up. There are far worse rosters that will make the final 8.

I for one will take 24 hours to moan and complain, then will start looking at how we can make this happen.

Well Yeah. Worse teams are going to make the next round. But the Draw is a cruel mistress.

Toruko
08-05-2019, 06:06 PM
Well Yeah. Worse teams are going to make the next round. But the Draw is a cruel mistress.

I wonder how much China paid to fiba to make quarter final for China possible.

Steadysoul
08-05-2019, 06:16 PM
I wonder how much China paid to fiba to make quarter final for China possible.

I get when people think this but they're still the worst team in their group. They just won't get steamrolled. They'll look competitive.

Toruko
08-05-2019, 06:20 PM
I get when people think this but they're still the worst team in their group. They just won't get steamrolled. They'll look competitive.

Thats why i said "possible" and dont forget the refs.

Dtown
08-05-2019, 06:35 PM
I get when people think this but they're still the worst team in their group. They just won't get steamrolled. They'll look competitive.

I think the bigger thing is, their next group for the 17th-32nd qualification is one of the easier ones as well, and that might mean qualifying for the Olympics outright.*

*Note presuming it's Asian/African teams eliminated from Group A/B in group M, I'd still have Nigeria as better than them.

Steadysoul
08-05-2019, 06:44 PM
I think the bigger thing is, their next group for the 17th-32nd qualification is one of the easier ones as well, and that might mean qualifying for the Olympics outright.*

*Note presuming it's Asian/African teams eliminated from Group A/B in group M, I'd still have Nigeria as better than them.

It really depends on how Iran does. Their group is spain and also rans. Iran advances and none of it matters.
Nigeria is my darkhorse to make it to the second round.

mojo13
08-05-2019, 07:01 PM
But why this upcoming NBA season affected so much USA and Canada, but best Europeans are in.

For example Jokic and Murray is playing for same team and have same 20+ Mill. contracts

The problem is not NBA here,but players dedication for their NT.

Europeans feel pride representing their NT and no NBA agent or GM can change that.

If it would be free agency summer is one thing I can understand that, but all other summers is just players lack of dedication.

I think this was hashed over allot on other threads. The WC is just not deemed important to North Americans it seems. And Canada has an inherent commitment issue without the depth the USA has to overcome it and still be a medal favorite. Makes Canada a nice Wild Card out there and a nation to keep an eye on for FIBA in case we ever get our $hit together. Not this time though (what a waste!)


Here is another good read on what has happened with Canada.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/time-now-canadas-best-write-history/


And specifically about Murray - he supposedly has a minor injury as his reason. Not sure if that is BS or not. Other than that - you are probably right, a Canadian cares less about this than Serb. Keep in mind Canada is not the most patriotic or nationalist country - it is a country that has multiculturalism and diversity as its main cultural drivers (this can be very good in many ways and also bad, with this as an example of what goes wrong). It is worth he trade off I suppose.

usagre
08-05-2019, 08:43 PM
Canada went from the possibility of being composed of NBA talent to the probability of being made up of Scrubbs.
Literally and figuratively.

Rodrigue Beaubois
08-05-2019, 09:13 PM
It is still the strongest group on paper, but Canada's chances to advance to the second stage dropped from like 60% to 10% in a moment. It's a shame, those three games were for me the highlight of the first group stage.

Mindozas
08-06-2019, 06:33 AM
I think that now Canada is becoming a bit underestimated here. They are not that bad surely. They still can compose decent starting 5 with Cory Joseph, Pangos, Ejim, Olynyk, Birch, they has some fine players off the bench like Ph.Scrubb, Wiltjer, Boucher. Overall some decent shooting touch, which on a good day can blow away both Lithuania and Australia

usagre
08-06-2019, 08:27 AM
I think that now Canada is becoming a bit underestimated here. They are not that bad surely. They still can compose decent starting 5 with Cory Joseph, Pangos, Ejim, Olynyk, Birch, they has some fine players off the bench like Ph.Scrubb, Wiltjer, Boucher. Overall some decent shooting touch, which on a good day can blow away both Lithuania and Australia

Excellent point. The same thing is happening with the US as well. It's understandable to a degree if we focus on and get distracted by what those teams could have been.

mojo13
08-06-2019, 11:18 PM
Final 12 for Australia announced:

Aron Baynes
Andrew Bogut
Jonah Bolden
Xavier Cooks
Matthew Dellavedova
Cameron Gliddon
Chris Goulding
Joe Ingles
Nicholas Kay
Jock Landale
Patty Mills
Nathan Sobey

Notable outs: Mitch Creek, Deng Adel, and Brock Motum.

Australia seemingly making some weird roster decisions in the back half of their team. Maybe searching for roster balance at the expense of cutting superior players? Most were not weren't expecting Xavier Cooks, Cameron Gliddon, and Nick Kay. Doesn't seem the Aussie fans are too pleased about this. But not sure it matters too much in the scheme of things.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketb...ee657f6229a427

Shawshank
08-07-2019, 04:58 AM
So 5 main players returning from one of best Olympic Aussies team I have seen ever.

Bogut,Baynes,Ingles,Mills,Dellavedova

Surprisingly that remaining 7 role players are different compared to olympics. 4 of those 5 main players are in 30s.

For example Lithuania is bringing 8 same player's from Olympics

Maybe I overstatement Australia a bit looking to roster now, but still how they convingly beat and physically pushed us around in both 2014 and 2016 still is in my memory.

Lithuania 2019 is deeper than 2016 and our main 2 players from NBA in 2019 is not looking or playing like youngsters anymore like in Olympics 3 years ago they did.

With seeing both Canada and Australia rosters I like my team's chance's better to survive this group than one month's ago.

Mindozas
08-07-2019, 05:43 AM
Final 12 for Australia announced:

Aron Baynes
Andrew Bogut
Jonah Bolden
Xavier Cooks
Matthew Dellavedova
Cameron Gliddon
Chris Goulding
Joe Ingles
Nicholas Kay
Jock Landale
Patty Mills
Nathan Sobey

Notable outs: Mitch Creek, Deng Adel, and Brock Motum.

Australia seemingly making some weird roster decisions in the back half of their team. Maybe searching for roster balance at the expense of cutting superior players? Most were not weren't expecting Xavier Cooks, Cameron Gliddon, and Nick Kay. Doesn't seem the Aussie fans are too pleased about this. But not sure it matters too much in the scheme of things.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketb...ee657f6229a427

Motum is not a notable out, IMO Landale is simply better nowadays to fill the frontcourt. While Kay was a guy I was expected to make a roster, he looked really solid in NBL, much tougher than Motum. Xavier Cooks had really good season in Germany, I didn't think that might be enough for him to break into roster, Mitch Creek looked like almost a lock there, also Adel seeking more or less the same position, but probably Cooks was simply better. Guy is really versatile, physically gifted all around player with nice shot. I think if he'll continue this way, in a year or couple he'll move to Euroleague.
Overall solid roster, there's balance in lines in defense/offense, there's experience, there's good coach. It'll be very hard nut to crack

Roofman
08-07-2019, 09:50 AM
@Mindozas, I was very surprised to hear of Creek's omission- after the NBA six, I would have thought that he would be possibly the first cab off the rank from the rest, given he was mostly present during qualifying and minor tournaments, knew coach Lemanis' system and had a decent NBA experience and showed off an ok perimeter shot, previously the knock on him. Landale makes sense too, because no doubt you guys will be hungry for revenge, and will absolutely try to play through your bigs against us, so having a third centre makes complete sense for fouls and possible injuries.

The very little I have seen of Cooks I like, but he did look rail thin and only around a low 30s% shooter from range, will be a handful if he improves in these areas. Cooks and Bolden promise a running unit with shooters assisting off the bench. I should say that I follow Euro hoops and especially the Australians in it, but always interested in commentaries on players. Maybe you could shed some light on Motum who seems to not last more than two years at any particular club. He shot %s of 40+/50+/mid 80s from the line at Efes Pilsen, does he just like IQ and make basic errors? I mean he is 208cm, fairly athletic, obviously can shoot and seem like a solid person, would like to know some insight here...

Mindozas
08-07-2019, 11:57 AM
@Mindozas, I was very surprised to hear of Creek's omission- after the NBA six, I would have thought that he would be possibly the first cab off the rank from the rest, given he was mostly present during qualifying and minor tournaments, knew coach Lemanis' system and had a decent NBA experience and showed off an ok perimeter shot, previously the knock on him. Landale makes sense too, because no doubt you guys will be hungry for revenge, and will absolutely try to play through your bigs against us, so having a third centre makes complete sense for fouls and possible injuries.

The very little I have seen of Cooks I like, but he did look rail thin and only around a low 30s% shooter from range, will be a handful if he improves in these areas. Cooks and Bolden promise a running unit with shooters assisting off the bench. I should say that I follow Euro hoops and especially the Australians in it, but always interested in commentaries on players. Maybe you could shed some light on Motum who seems to not last more than two years at any particular club. He shot %s of 40+/50+/mid 80s from the line at Efes Pilsen, does he just like IQ and make basic errors? I mean he is 208cm, fairly athletic, obviously can shoot and seem like a solid person, would like to know some insight here...

Motum is a nice guy indeed, or as you say solid person, a shy one, and what's bad about that - he brings that to the court too frequently, he tends simply to disappear. He might have some good stretches, like in 2016 bronze medal game vs Spain, but at times you simply doesn't notice that he is there, lacks leader qualities, a bit of that good sportive anger, is simply too passive in offense. Also no matter that he is athletic, he is soft player, especially in defense, there was a season in Zalgiris when he failed to block a single shot in whole Euroleague season, and he was playing some 20+ mins in 20+ games. Awful for a PF. Tbh in 2nd season he wasn't much better in it. Not the best rebounder either. Overall, had troubles in reading the game defensively and that was big problem of him.
He seems to be one of these cases where looks like guy has all the physical tools to be really good, but lacks character, mentality. I think the same Landale also isn't the strongest guy out there, also defensively average at best, but he has right mentality to go far, at least further than Motum did

ZaliaBalta
08-07-2019, 12:06 PM
Tako Fall
Youssoupha Fall
Clevin Hannah
Gorgui Dieng

All out of Senegal's list.

Mindozas
08-07-2019, 12:13 PM
Tako Fall
Youssoupha Fall
Clevin Hannah
Gorgui Dieng

All out of Senegal's list.

Only Hannah is fresh absence, others withdrew some week ago ;)

soulis79
08-12-2019, 04:40 PM
Senegal at the moment looks like the worst team of the tournament. It seems also ,that Faye is having some kind of injury. He appeared for 3 minutes in the last friendly at Verona and today versus Turkey he is not in the roster.

paspalj
08-12-2019, 04:53 PM
Keep in mind Canada is not the most patriotic or nationalist country - it is a country that has multiculturalism and diversity as its main cultural drivers (this can be very good in many ways and also bad, with this as an example of what goes wrong). It is worth he trade off I suppose.

I get what you are trying to say and I have the utmost respect for Canada but patriotism has nothing to do with this. Look at the US for example, a country where patriotism is taken to the extreme, especially in the realm of sports. National Anthem before every game, special shoutouts to soldiers during games, ostracizing Kaepernick because of his decision to protest in this specific way that was considered disrespectful etc

In addition to that, there is the whole "greatest country on earth" thing going on. I don't want to get into details but you get the idea.

Despite all that, players casually reject their NT.
The NBA, like almost every american corporation, demands your full attention. If it doesn't bring money, it's not worth exploring.
(I distinguish american corporations because of the known cutthroat pace, dog-eat-dog mentality. Corporate greed is a worldwide thing.)

Prancūzėlis_ZLD
08-14-2019, 10:02 AM
I get what you are trying to say and I have the utmost respect for Canada but patriotism has nothing to do with this. Look at the US for example, a country where patriotism is taken to the extreme, especially in the realm of sports. National Anthem before every game, special shoutouts to soldiers during games, ostracizing Kaepernick because of his decision to protest in this specific way that was considered disrespectful etc

In addition to that, there is the whole "greatest country on earth" thing going on. I don't want to get into details but you get the idea.

Despite all that, players casually reject their NT.


I also think patriotism has an important part in skipping the World Cup or not. Yet, there is a major difference between Canada and USA (which is, as you stated, a very patriotic country) : almost everyone would agree to say that Team USA is the best basketball team, so they have nothing to prove in this regards. Especially after remaining undefeated for so long... Most people still think they will get gold medal even with current team (if this is not the case, then redeem team 2 will come).
All that can't be said about Team Canada (but patriotism seems less important there)

Levenspiel
08-14-2019, 11:56 AM
I get what you are trying to say and I have the utmost respect for Canada but patriotism has nothing to do with this. Look at the US for example, a country where patriotism is taken to the extreme, especially in the realm of sports. National Anthem before every game, special shoutouts to soldiers during games, ostracizing Kaepernick because of his decision to protest in this specific way that was considered disrespectful etc

In addition to that, there is the whole "greatest country on earth" thing going on. I don't want to get into details but you get the idea.

just wondering, is this patriotism for the "show", or is it real? Like many other things in the NBA, it looks fake, it feels fake (I personally have no respect for it, especially for this veteran honoring stuff everywhere).

It would explain these mass NBA withdrawals too, the patriotism is actually not there, or not that much, it's for the show.

paspalj
08-14-2019, 02:04 PM
I also think patriotism has an important part in skipping the World Cup or not. Yet, there is a major difference between Canada and USA (which is, as you stated, a very patriotic country) : almost everyone would agree to say that Team USA is the best basketball team, so they have nothing to prove in this regards. Especially after remaining undefeated for so long... Most people still think they will get gold medal even with current team (if this is not the case, then redeem team 2 will come).
All that can't be said about Team Canada (but patriotism seems less important there)

Maybe you are correct. I don't really know and I don't have other counter-examples. Now that I think about it, when their pride gets hurt, then "patriotism" mode kicks in and we get the redeem teams :p


just wondering, is this patriotism for the "show", or is it real? Like many other things in the NBA, it looks fake, it feels fake (I personally have no respect for it, especially for this veteran honoring stuff everywhere).

It would explain these mass NBA withdrawals too, the patriotism is actually not there, or not that much, it's for the show.

It is definitely for the show. Big corporations don't care about any country or people. They just want to make money. The whole "freedom" things sells a lot here so that's what they need to do in order to sell their product. See what happened to Kaepernick.

This "forced" patriotism in every aspect creates this culture that sometimes people just blindly will fall into.
If you've watched "How to curb your enthusiasm" there is great scene where there is a party and in the presence of a soldier everybody greets him "Thank you for your service", "Thank you for your service" and when it's Larry's turn he just says "Hi" and everybody gets super upset that he didn't thank him for his service :p
I consider myself very lucky to live on the east coast where things are way better than the south or the middle of the country. People can be very individualistic and short sighted in terms of governance.

usagre
08-14-2019, 02:21 PM
You guys are getting way too deep in analyzing a very simple concept.
It's all about this specific tournament. Nobody cares. They just dont. If you check the ratings for the gold medal games in 2010 and 2014 you will laugh your ass off. It's hard to ask players to be patriotic and care about a tournament when nobody else in your country does. There has never been a redeem team in this tournament. It's always B caliber teams and it will always be that or worse. It doesn't matter if they lose it for the next 20 years. It's not the Olympics. There pride is hurt and it leads to changes.

I understand that this might be difficult for foreigners to understand but you guys have to trust me.
It has nothing to do with patriotism or agents or anything. The tournament just does not have any value.

Levenspiel
08-14-2019, 02:23 PM
If you've watched "How to curb your enthusiasm" there is great scene where there is a party and in the presence of a soldier everybody greets him "Thank you for your service", "Thank you for your service" and when it's Larry's turn he just says "Hi" and everybody gets super upset that he didn't thank him for his service :p
Haha, yes, I love that show, and Larry David in general. I was even expecting the vet to turn out in the end to be a cook or something like that in the army but at least we saw he was a proper soldier :D

thanks for the insight.

paspalj
08-14-2019, 03:01 PM
You guys are getting way too deep in analyzing a very simple concept.
It's all about this specific tournament. Nobody cares. They just dont. If you check the ratings for the gold medal games in 2010 and 2014 you will laugh your ass off. It's hard to ask players to be patriotic and care about a tournament when nobody else in your country does. There has never been a redeem team in this tournament. It's always B caliber teams and it will always be that or worse. It doesn't matter if they lose it for the next 20 years. It's not the Olympics. There pride is hurt and it leads to changes.

I understand that this might be difficult for foreigners to understand but you guys have to trust me.
It has nothing to do with patriotism or agents or anything. The tournament just does not have any value.

I agree with you but the idea that the WC is "inferior" to the Olympics is created by the surroundings. People in general will watch what they are told to watch.

Look at the women's soccer WC for example. It was a great success. Watched by 14 million people. (The previous WC final had about 25 million).
In contrast 900,000 watched the basketball WC final.

But you will say "Soccer is much more popular in general so absolute numbers don't count" and you will be correct. So we can see the corresponding Olympics ratings.
1.38 million for the women's soccer, 11.7 million for men's basketball.

I understand that there are major differences between the sports and the number of followers. I also understand that there might be deviation due to rules (for example, in mens soccer in the olympics only 2 players over 23 are allowed so nobody cares). In addition, we should take into consideration that during the Olympics there are a bunch of other events happening at the same exact time so viewing will be "dispersed".

You reasoning is correct, but I can't shake this feeling that the NBA is just cherry picking. "Oh man, we can't ignore ALL international competitions, let's just pick one and say it's important."

But the idea is that somebody decided that the Olympics are more prestigious and the NBA players followed. That doesn't hold in general because for example we saw that it's not the case for women's soccer. Because that's what they were told. Naturally, people won't care for a tournament that doesn't feature their best players.

Also may I remind you that it was the loss of a world championship (2002) that lead to all the changes in Team USA, not the Olympics.

usagre
08-14-2019, 03:13 PM
I disagree about a lot here.
It wasn't the 2002 loss that changed things it was 2004. If it was '02 then the '04 team would have been the A team which it clearly wasn't. The Redeem team '08 was to redeem '04. Further evidence that it wasn't '02 loss was that the following Worlds tournament again was a young B team and not an A team.

You're also wrong about the people being told what to watch tournament. The Olympic Gold medal has value, meaning and tradition. You can't manufacture that. Like I've said before if the Olympics didn't exist and the Worlds was the only option you still wouldn't see the top US players participating.

The US women soccer World Cup was popular for two main reasons. First it is the premier tournament and not secondary like the Fiba Worlds and it also popular among both genders.

usagre
08-14-2019, 03:40 PM
A Ryder Cup style tournament would have a better shot of gaining interest in the US in my opinion. If it were to replace this tournament and a new concept from scratch doesn't have the disadvantage of carrying the historical baggage of being a second class event. I mean even when NBA players were restricted and it was only collegians you still got the B collegiate team.

Ryder Cup style,
USA vs Europe in a best of 5 or 7 series. This would be more competitive and would be a hit in my opinion.

paspalj
08-14-2019, 03:46 PM
Although I was young back then, I do think that the loss of the WC on home soil was what shook things up. The idea was to build a national team around the (then) young players. It didn't pan out in 2004, and in 2006 (where the US was the heavy favorite) there was a major upset. So in 2008, built around players from 2004 and small additions along the way (Paul, Howard in 2006) and Kobe in 2008 they were able to reclaim their title. I still think that it's the chemistry that lifted the US team over Spain in 2008. The program was successful.

Anyway, maybe you are correct. You are from the US so you should know better. I'm just going with what I noticed around the internet.

usagre
08-14-2019, 03:58 PM
2002 was important because it was the first time NBA players lost but 2004 hit home because it was the Olympics.

2004 team was business as usual trying to attract the top players but perceived security concerns led to a lot of A players refusing to participate. And you ended up basically with
a B caliber team poorly constructed and the worst NBA USA Olympic team ever.

Dtown
08-14-2019, 03:59 PM
Although I was young back then, I do think that the loss of the WC on home soil was what shook things up. The idea was to build a national team around the (then) young players. It didn't pan out in 2004, and in 2006 (where the US was the heavy favorite) there was a major upset. So in 2008, built around players from 2004 and small additions along the way (Paul, Howard in 2006) and Kobe in 2008 they were able to reclaim their title. I still think that it's the chemistry that lifted the US team over Spain in 2008. The program was successful.

Anyway, maybe you are correct. You are from the US so you should know better. I'm just going with what I noticed around the internet.

usagre's right in that while 2002 raised eyebrows no one really cared about that loss despite the 6th place finish. Calls for reform didn't happen until after 2004. Even the 2006 team which was the first of the new system was designed as the warm up for the Redeem Team in 2008.

Part of the reason the Olympics became the event for Basketball was the Cold War. The Olympics often acted as a proxy war for the USA and USSR and Basketball just happened to be a sport both nations were good at. High stakes, high pressure, high number of people watching creates history, and creates importance.

usagre
08-14-2019, 04:02 PM
Great point by Dtown. The Cold War atmosphere was an enormous factor. It was an alternative way to settle things. That's why '72 and '88 hurt. Not only the loss but who it was to. In today's world there isn't really a comp for that.

usagre
08-14-2019, 04:18 PM
I would even argue that the 2000 semifinal close win against Lithuania raised more eyebrows than the '02 Worlds losses.
It was the Olympics and the team was a lot stronger. A B+ or A- type team that I define this way because about 5 of its players were good enough to make the A team.

G&B
08-15-2019, 08:11 AM
I would even argue that the 2000 semifinal close win against Lithuania raised more eyebrows than the '02 Worlds losses.
It was the Olympics and the team was a lot stronger. A B+ or A- type team that I define this way because about 5 of its players were good enough to make the A team.

And so Lithuania 2000 was not A-level, maybe it was B or B + team, and its possible candidates could be: Ilgauskas, traumatized Macijauskas, Sabonis and Karnisovas still have not finished their sports career.
If these players had been in the game, they would have probably won the Olympic gold medals, because Lithuania had no other gold medal competitors except the USA.

But the sport is so interesting that nothing is known in advance.

soulis79
08-15-2019, 08:39 AM
Mitch Creek will replace the injured Cooks.

Mindozas
08-16-2019, 07:50 AM
And so Lithuania 2000 was not A-level, maybe it was B or B + team, and its possible candidates could be: Ilgauskas, traumatized Macijauskas, Sabonis and Karnisovas still have not finished their sports career.
If these players had been in the game, they would have probably won the Olympic gold medals, because Lithuania had no other gold medal competitors except the USA.

But the sport is so interesting that nothing is known in advance.

I don't know what means traumatized, but Macas blossomed later. In 2000 he was nowhere close to make the team

Darrell Armstrong
08-16-2019, 10:23 AM
Watching the Australia vs. Canada friendly game right now and, man, do these teams need more time to get ready! Canada is sad to watch with a bunch of lesser-known players and Kevin Pangos as a standout in the first quarter. But Aussies really need to get their act together. At times it looks like they're playing without a coach, with Mills breaking plays and pulling up for three with no one to chase for the rebound; and him, Bogut and Ingles passing the ball into the stands. You know these guys are better than that, but for the moment they're getting their asses handed to them by Canada's C team.

Mindozas
08-16-2019, 10:38 AM
Watching the Australia vs. Canada friendly game right now and, man, do these teams need more time to get ready! Canada is sad to watch with a bunch of lesser-known players and Kevin Pangos as a standout in the first quarter. But Aussies really need to get their act together. At times it looks like they're playing without a coach, with Mills breaking plays and pulling up for three with no one to chase for the rebound; and him, Bogut and Ingles passing the ball into the stands. You know these guys are better than that, but for the moment they're getting their asses handed to them by Canada's C team.

True, watched first half now, both teams relies too much on random offensive plays, defense quite shaky

Tesla
08-16-2019, 12:13 PM
I don't think Australia are going to learn what defence is in the next few games. With Lithuania already doing it well against Serbia, Australia are going to struggle against Lithuania.

Argylex
08-16-2019, 12:16 PM
Does anyone know what is going on with Senegal?
Their 12-man roster has 2 guards and something like 9-10 forwards/centers over 2.05m :confused:

Also, is Dieng injured?

Mindozas
08-16-2019, 12:49 PM
Does anyone know what is going on with Senegal?
Their 12-man roster has 2 guards and something like 9-10 forwards/centers over 2.05m :confused:

Also, is Dieng injured?

He is not. Senegal is trying to play with very high line-up, even SG being 2m over, but I don't think that's going to work

Darrell Armstrong
08-16-2019, 12:52 PM
Australia finally lost by 20 to a team full of scrubbs (pun intended).

Tevfik1907
08-16-2019, 04:22 PM
https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/919738/pangos-leads-canada-to-prep-win-over-australia/


Canada beat Australia with a 90-70 victory in the preparation tournament in Perth, a few days ahead of the FIBA World Cup.

Kevin Pangos was the leading scorer for Canada and finished the game with 18 points and five assists, while Kyle Wiltjer contributed 11 points and six rebounds.

The Boomers were paced by captain Patty Mills who posted 20 points, as Jock Landale also contributed 18 points and eight rebounds.

Darrell Armstrong
08-17-2019, 01:50 PM
The second friendly between Australia and Canada is a win for the home side. Mills (who was very bad in the first game) and Pangos (who was clearly the best player on the floor) both were sitting this one out. And it paid off for Australia, as Canada never got into a rhythm offensively.

Still not sold on Boomers' chances this year.

mojo13
08-18-2019, 03:11 PM
The second friendly between Australia and Canada is a win for the home side. Mills (who was very bad in the first game) and Pangos (who was clearly the best player on the floor) both were sitting this one out. And it paid off for Australia, as Canada never got into a rhythm offensively.

Still not sold on Boomers' chances this year.

And now the Boomers lose Bolden who was the game changer in the 2nd game.
I thought he was going to be a very important piece for the Boomers.

Straight forward
08-19-2019, 08:24 PM
It's funny how most of Lithuanian BB community still repeats the same mantra that we are in extremely tough, death group, we should absolutely be 100% ready in top shape and so on...I mean that's nearly nonsense. Senegal doesn't have key players, Canada (specially if Cojo won't show up) probably lost 80% of talent (how the hell we were going to play against them if they had 100% team if even now they are treated as nearly powerhouse?). Yes, Australia is till Australia even if they will be wothout Simmons, Bolden, Exum, Ryan Broekhoff. I treat Australia- Lithuania 50/50 game, but Lithuania should surely deal with Senegal and Canada. Canada probably in a nervous and pretty close game, but we still should absolutely do that under current circumstances. I understand the idea not to be cocky and not too underrate the oppoents, but I hate self underrating as equally as self overrating. And Lithuanian BB community loves to underrate themselves (I'm not talking about few idiots and kids who might show up here, I talk about journalists, coaches, players, ect) as it would be some form of hedonism. Let's face it, Lithuania is huge favourite against Canada now.

soulis79
08-19-2019, 09:14 PM
Australia lucks depth, now. 2016 team had in their roster Andersen, Broekhoff, Motum and Lisch. This year's bench sucks. At the moment i see no better player from them. Besides that Boomers from the national championship are nothing special. They rely on the veterans.

Senegal had limited preparations, coaches conflict and bad recruiting. Dieng who is a 20p-10r player will be absent so i don't believe will achieve something.

Canada must pray all day for Birch's condition. If he is healthy he can help them a lot. Nurse is another asset but i don't know how far this will carry them.

Straight forward
08-19-2019, 09:18 PM
Jock Landale however can be an X factor for Australia. Objectively he has nothing on say JV and Sabonis, and even Kuzminskas is bigger name at the moment, but he's really up coming player and looks good. So that's some fresh air for Australia.

usagre
08-19-2019, 09:45 PM
It's funny how most of Lithuanian BB community still repeats the same mantra that we are in extremely tough, death group, we should absolutely be 100% ready in top shape and so on...I mean that's nearly nonsense. Senegal doesn't have key players, Canada (specially if Cojo won't show up) probably lost 80% of talent (how the hell we were going to play against them if they had 100% team if even now they are treated as nearly powerhouse?). Yes, Australia is till Australia even if they will be wothout Simmons, Bolden, Exum, Ryan Broekhoff. I treat Australia- Lithuania 50/50 game, but Lithuania should surely deal with Senegal and Canada. Canada probably in a nervous and pretty close game, but we still should absolutely do that under current circumstances. I understand the idea not to be cocky and not too underrate the oppoents, but I hate self underrating as equally as self overrating. And Lithuanian BB community loves to underrate themselves (I'm not talking about few idiots and kids who might show up here, I talk about journalists, coaches, players, ect) as it would be some form of hedonism. Let's face it, Lithuania is huge favourite against Canada now.

Well said.

usagre
08-24-2019, 06:40 PM
Maybe it’s just me but if Canada had anything resembling a real team I think Australia coming off this historic win would be ripe for the upset. It’s almost as if their entire team’s progress over the years was heading towards beating the US in one of these two historic home exhibitions. Maybe these two games were Australia’s World Cup in essence and they might just deflate now.

Roofman
08-25-2019, 02:07 AM
@usagre. I am still worried about Canada. Nick Nurse and staff has a huge bag of tricks, while I feel the motivated and crafty Pangos and Nembhard may be even a better fit for FIBA competition than their first choice backcourt. I especially rate Pangos, and I see him as Steve Nash lite as someone who played high school in Canada, came from a sporting (in this case basketball family), attended a mid-major program, always had question marks around his physical attributes and whether playmaking was truly next level, and is just coming into his prime now.

In terms of expectation, the one time when Australia was among the leading favourites leading into a major FIBA was before Sydney 2000. In the Diamond Ball lead up tournament in Hong Kong, Australia defeated Yugoslavia in the final. The Yuogslavs obviously targeted Andrew Gaze and held him to 7 points (with 9 assists), but the MVP that day was naturalised former University guard Ricky Grace, who got to the rim at will, while anchoring the defence. Coach Barry Barnes' hand that day was forced by having Shane Heal injured, which was a blessing in disguise then, but once they reverted back to Heal at point, they got torn apart by Steve Nash in the Olympic opener, lost a rematch to Yugoslavia in the second game, before scrambled and simply running out of steam in the semi-finals.... I won't predict results, but only this Australian team has no weak links that always get exploited sooner or later.

mojo13
08-25-2019, 03:31 AM
@usagre. I am still worried about Canada. Nick Nurse and staff has a huge bag of tricks, while I feel the motivated and crafty Pangos and Nembhard may be even a better fit for FIBA competition than their first choice backcourt. I especially rate Pangos, and I see him as Steve Nash lite as someone who played high school in Canada, came from a sporting (in this case basketball family), attended a mid-major program, always had question marks around his physical attributes and whether playmaking was truly next level, and is just coming into his prime now.

In terms of expectation, the one time when Australia was among the leading favourites leading into a major FIBA was before Sydney 2000. In the Diamond Ball lead up tournament in Hong Kong, Australia defeated Yugoslavia in the final. The Yuogslavs obviously targeted Andrew Gaze and held him to 7 points (with 9 assists), but the MVP that day was naturalised former University guard Ricky Grace, who got to the rim at will, while anchoring the defence. Coach Barry Barnes' hand that day was forced by having Shane Heal injured, which was a blessing in disguise then, but once they reverted back to Heal at point, they got torn apart by Steve Nash in the Olympic opener, lost a rematch to Yugoslavia in the second game, before scrambled and simply running out of steam in the semi-finals.... I won't predict results, but only this Australian team has no weak links that always get exploited sooner or later.


Oh please. This self depreciation seems nothing more than a cover in case Australia chokes one hard.
Pangos is no Nash-lite, nothing close. Nash was a two time NBA MVP. Pangos can barely make a mark on the NBA summer league.

And if you think Pangos and Nembhard would form a better fiba back court than say Murray and SGA I have a bridge to sell you. This team is a joke compared to what could have been roster - the fact that they still have a punchers shot at both Australia and Lithuania is a credit to Canada’s depth and shows how good a team could have been. Would, could, should though. This is still an embarrassment for anyone involved in Canada Basketball.

greenarcher
08-25-2019, 06:35 AM
If Canada sent their best players in this World Cup, I won't be surprised if USA goes home without a medal.

Hepcat
08-25-2019, 06:29 PM
And if you think Pangos and Nembhard would form a better fiba back court than say Murray and SGA I have a bridge to sell you. This team is a joke compared to what could have been roster - the fact that they still have a punchers shot at both Australia and Lithuania is a credit to Canada’s depth and shows how good a team could have been. Would, could, should though. This is still an embarrassment for anyone involved in Canada Basketball.

You forget that a good team is more than the sum of its individual talents. Canada is better served by players who really want to represent Canada as opposed to those who show up only because they're more likely to advance as opposed to hurt their own pro careers by participating.

mojo13
08-28-2019, 10:44 PM
Sounds like Cory Joseph is with the team in China.
O’Shea Brissett who was playing quite well was sent home due to his ankle injury. And Conor Morgan (Joventut) has been flown in last second to replace the even more depleted front line.


Also Bogut turned his ankle in the loss to Germany. No word how serious yet but he could miss time.

christodoulou76
08-29-2019, 12:37 AM
O’Shea Brissett who was playing quite well was sent home due to his ankle injury.

for anyone trying to google Brisset, his first name is Oshae. :)

Hoopnation12
08-29-2019, 11:43 AM
Bogut is missing some games definitely

EugeneUkraine
08-29-2019, 12:12 PM
For people from Lithuania, please join our World Cup Fantasy game:

https://basketdream.com/

Leoyyyyy
08-30-2019, 02:40 AM
But they still have multi NBA players which is better than most of other teams. if wiggins play as least they have a tier 2 NBA player in their team

Dreamcatcher
08-31-2019, 03:36 PM
It's funny how most of Lithuanian BB community still repeats the same mantra that we are in extremely tough, death group, we should absolutely be 100% ready in top shape and so on...I mean that's nearly nonsense. Senegal doesn't have key players, Canada (specially if Cojo won't show up) probably lost 80% of talent (how the hell we were going to play against them if they had 100% team if even now they are treated as nearly powerhouse?). Yes, Australia is till Australia even if they will be wothout Simmons, Bolden, Exum, Ryan Broekhoff. I treat Australia- Lithuania 50/50 game, but Lithuania should surely deal with Senegal and Canada. Canada probably in a nervous and pretty close game, but we still should absolutely do that under current circumstances. I understand the idea not to be cocky and not too underrate the oppoents, but I hate self underrating as equally as self overrating. And Lithuanian BB community loves to underrate themselves (I'm not talking about few idiots and kids who might show up here, I talk about journalists, coaches, players, ect) as it would be some form of hedonism. Let's face it, Lithuania is huge favourite against Canada now.
Why you pay so much attention on all that? I don't think Canada is treated as nearly powerhouse but even if it's like that i have nothing against. Best results in WC (2010) and EC (2003) we achieved not being favourites. We won against Serbia in 2015 EC semifinal not being favourites as well. Our great 2004 team lost to Italy being the big favourites and missed unique chance to win Olympics. I think we historically do better not being favourites. Even if it has nothing to do with nowadays i'm not against an idea not to be favourites.

I personally neither overrate nor underrate Canada as i have no clue bout them. They lost a lot of potential, but it seems they have a right coach and with an athletic team and some strong players (2 nba fellows, Pangos, someone else) they can be very fangerous. If it's about a close and nervous game you can't talk about absolute winning as both teams can be better and more lucky to end the game. We should be favourites, but i don't care about it as it doesn't help to win.

I've watched Nigeria-Russia game where individually stronger players lost the game and you could imagine such scenario before the game. Canada always had many potential but coudn't gathere all that potential together and couln't bring a team chemistry. If they would bring almost all of their strongest players, it would be still a question of their team chemistry and how scary they are. Now it's a question of how dangerous they are and i don't care about a question of a favourite.

mojo13
08-31-2019, 04:38 PM
Canada has a medal contending talent pool that didn’t show up. So there has been months of calling this group the Pool of Death with three medal contending teams. That’s clearly changed but even now this Canadian Team is hard to judge - it seems a team that will probably lose to both Australia and Lithuania but I don’t think anyone should be too surprised if they beat both. Whoever fails to get out of this pool is going to be a better team than loads of teams that make the second round and even some 1/4 teams. It is still a shame to see the pools so imbalanced. It was sad to watch the pool A games today. All trash teams that wouldn’t keep a game within 20 in pool H.

By the way - Bogut seems ok with his ankle and looks probable vs Canada today.



And Dreamcatcher - comparing a fully loaded Canada with Nigeria is a little unfair. Nigeria is a group of fairly mis matched and unfamiliar parts. No floor general whatsoever or coaching. That would not be Canada’s problem who theoretically could floor a number of elite guards. And quite honestly the current team has shown some really good flashes of chemistry. These guys have played together before, are familiar with each other - although the coach is new, but might be the best thing about this team.

Shawshank
08-31-2019, 05:47 PM
As Lithuanian fan Im not nervous againts Senegal or even Australia we are not favorites if we lose that's not a tragedy,but if you lose againts such roster Canada it would be tragedy and not make even top 16 ...and this Canada team is not weak at all.

When so many players didn't show up , you want or not mindset of players and fan base is : it should be easy win and that can make mental pressure in minds of liths boys, especially if Canada starts game well.

Hepcat
08-31-2019, 05:55 PM
Canada has a medal contending talent pool that didn’t show up. So there has been months of calling this group the Pool of Death with three medal contending teams. That’s clearly changed but even now this Canadian Team is hard to judge - it seems a team that will probably lose to both Australia and Lithuania but I don’t think anyone should be too surprised if they beat both. Whoever fails to get out of this pool is going to be a better team than loads of teams that make the second round and even some 1/4 teams. It is still a shame to see the pools so imbalanced. It was sad to watch the pool A games today. All trash teams that wouldn’t keep a game within 20 in pool H.

I agree completely. Nothing would surprise me in this group except a Senegal victory. It's just a real shame that one excellent team will be quickly eliminated.

:confused:

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 08:04 PM
Hey guys,

I need a bit of help with betting advice on tomorrow's game Lith vs Senegal. I am planning to put a bit serious money on 3 Lith players and an accumulator of those 3 bets, with a smaller stake. Something in the 150-200eur range per player, and another 50-100 for the accummulator. Some help in choosing players on the Lith side. This is the offer at my sportsbook:

Points +/- :
Valanciunas 14.5 points
Sabonis 14.5 points
Kalnietis 9.5 points
Grigonis 9.5 points
Kuzminskas 8.5 points

Assists +/-
Kalnietis 4.5 assists

Rebounds +/-
Valanciunas 7.5 rebounds
Sabonis 6.5 rebounds

So feel free to comment, what would you favor here. I am a bit torn and have started to overthink it here, so I think it's best to step back and let others chip in and reevaluate.

Shawshank
08-31-2019, 08:48 PM
Grigonis comes after 4 day illness nobody knows in what form he is now.He looked weak in last prep game.

Valanciunas reb over and Kalnietis assist overs looks logical atleast for me

CoachZ
08-31-2019, 08:57 PM
Grigonis comes after 4 day illness nobody knows in what form he is now.He looked weak in last prep game.

Valanciunas reb over and Kalnietis assist overs looks logical atleast for me

I was thinking under for Sabonis in points (one place where Senegal is solid defensively is there), also except the game versus Russia he really seemed underwhelming all through the prep phase before the WC2019. Yes, I was thinking of Valanciunas rebounds or points over, that seemed like a solid bet. Thanks for the help. I have to think it through a bit. I don't want to throw away all the winning from Day 1, where I hit on Rubio, Bogdanovic, Guduric, and the full accumulator.

Darrell Armstrong
08-31-2019, 10:52 PM
Canada has a very good coach and players who have bought his system. Don't sleep on them, although both Lithuania and Australia clearly showed up with more talented rosters.

Lietuvis
09-01-2019, 01:10 AM
Can someone make a post for online links to watch games? For some reason I cannot create a new thread for this.

Hepcat
09-01-2019, 01:17 AM
I need a bit of help with betting advice on tomorrow's game Lith vs Senegal.

So feel free to comment, what would you favor here. I am a bit torn and have started to overthink it here, so I think it's best to step back and let others chip in and reevaluate.

I think the best bets are Jonas Valančiūnas both points and rebounds OVER, and Kalnietis assists OVER.

:o

mojo13
09-01-2019, 04:03 AM
Can someone make a post for online links to watch games? For some reason I cannot create a new thread for this.

Canada v Australia.
Geo blocked so you will need to VPN if outside Canada.



https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/rttog-basketball-world-cup-canada-australia-1.5263978

Mindozas
09-01-2019, 05:39 AM
Can someone make a post for online links to watch games? For some reason I cannot create a new thread for this.

For now there might be only one https://tvplay.tv3.lt/senegalas-lietuva-10336859 even tho I'm not sure if it'll be working for free during the game, but it worked before or during friendlies. Closer to the game you could look for a links in some streaming sites like lshunter i.e. yesterday I found every game there


I think the best bets are Jonas Valančiūnas both points and rebounds OVER, and Kalnietis assists OVER.

:o

Kalnietis indeed looks good, 5 assists is like a routine for him, he is averaging 7-8 in last 3 tournaments with NT. Coach tends to overuse him too. Only obstacle while betting here is rival, I expect Lithuania not to have too much troubles, Senegal looked very poor during preps, so Kalnietis time might be limited, the same goes to other key guys

gideon
09-01-2019, 06:41 AM
Boomers should beat Canada by around 10-15pts. Cory Joseph can't be match fit.

JGX
09-01-2019, 07:56 AM
Nurse's face turning impressively red while yelling at the ref.

greenarcher
09-01-2019, 08:08 AM
Australia playing like USA with all those alley-oop dunks and follow-up dunks.

Canada being eaten alive in the boards both offensively and defensively. Canada frontline too inferior when compared to Australia.

Joseph with 3 fouls.

madmax
09-01-2019, 08:09 AM
damn, I didn't know Bogut can jump like that anymore...:eek:

iskoch
09-01-2019, 08:14 AM
Mills-dellavedova guard combo too much for that tournament. They have also ingles as point forward, so australia moving the ball incredibly fast. I see a very good team.

Tesla
09-01-2019, 08:24 AM
Happy to see Landale still playing fantastic. Žalgiris are going to have a star performer in his last European season before going NBA.

thiago94
09-01-2019, 08:30 AM
I am not sure wether Australia is that good offensively or Canada just awful in defense. They have so many defensiv liabilities, I can´t even count them with one hand. The game against Lithuania will show how good the Boomers are. The offense of Canada is a huge disappointment, I expected much more from Nurse. Joseph and Pangos are just dominating the ball, forcing bad shots and creating absolutely no open opportunities for the other players.

usagre
09-01-2019, 08:43 AM
What a fantastic Canadian comeback !
Joseph/Pangos duo is killing it. And to think if Canada was at full strength Pangos and EJim would be the 11th and 12th men on the roster and would never play any meaningful minutes.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 08:45 AM
Finally a ball game! Pretty cool. Canada looks dynamic with Pangos rocking. Australia a bit grandpa's team at D today.

Lithuania will also have a lot of p'n'r defence problems against those teams, specially with Kalnietis and JV in the line-up.

Katastroika
09-01-2019, 08:45 AM
I love Pangos. If I could pick one player to build around my team he would be one of my first picks. Aussies have in every tournament this 10 minutes when they are falling apart. This will cost them a lot also this year. Neither Patty nor Ingles are true leaders in crucial games.

vivo
09-01-2019, 08:48 AM
It's such a shame one of the LTU, AUS, CAN will be eliminated :( This is really a good game

Tesla
09-01-2019, 08:48 AM
Canada showing what difference a proper coach can make.

JGX
09-01-2019, 08:49 AM
Is Birch to Klassen the biggest drop-off between any starter and his backup in the tournament? And Birch is a pretty limited player.

Tesla
09-01-2019, 08:50 AM
Some Canadians making excuses saying Pangos would not be first choice. He's more effective then Jamal Murray who is overrated.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 08:52 AM
Canada is still B level team though. If they will shoot the lights out and will have couple of flashy drives finding bigs, generally if those quick shots falling their in the game, if not they gonna be stopped. No good bench as well. So far Australia sucks at D in third quarter, IMO.

usagre
09-01-2019, 08:52 AM
Some Canadians making excuses saying Pangos would not be first choice. He's more effective then Jamal Murray who is overrated.

That’s your second clueless comment so far following your Olympics/Worlds comparison. Many more to come I am sure.

vivo
09-01-2019, 08:54 AM
Some Canadians making excuses saying Pangos would not be first choice. He's more effective then Jamal Murray who is overrated.

Jamal Murray with his off hand is a better player than most guards in the tournament lol

usagre
09-01-2019, 08:57 AM
+13 for Canada in 3rd quarter now game basically even and there for the taking but I think Australia will pull it out.

Joško Poljak Fan
09-01-2019, 09:00 AM
Canada might be missing their first lineup and apart from that some of those players should really excell at Fiba play. However they are still lucky that they are missing Wiggins :)
Great game so far. Pangos is a great player, Murray is a different dimension though. An NBA starting PG that plays for a team at this level is an offensive juggernaught most teams base their defensive plan around. Murray is still one of those players, evn if I am not his biggest fan out there.

usagre
09-01-2019, 09:00 AM
With all the NBA talent on Australia it’s been Goulding keeping Australia level during this Canadian run.

Tesla
09-01-2019, 09:00 AM
As a Nuggets fan watching a lot of their games, I spent last season hoping & expecting Murray to show some back court leadership. He totally has the opportunity. And I've been fighting fellow Nuggets fans telling me Murray is is no good. Pangos has been pure class.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 09:04 AM
Canada won't be shooting on daily basis like they did in third quarter :D If Aussies will get their shit together defensively, Canada is done as their 2 dynamic guards are not getting freshier also.

usagre
09-01-2019, 09:07 AM
If Delly shoots like that Australia is just about unbeatable.

madmax
09-01-2019, 09:09 AM
too much offensive firepower on this boomers' squad - not even muricans are as explosive scoring wise as these ravaging aussies:cool:

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 09:10 AM
If Delly shoots like that Australia is just about unbeatable.

Also not happening on daily basis. Lithuania is lucky he got his slack against Canada:) But yeah Aussies always get Mills or another guy going big time.

JGX
09-01-2019, 09:20 AM
Point differential disaster for Canada here. Really Australia dominated 35 of the 40 minutes.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 09:26 AM
I didn't see anything what I didn't expect. Respect to Nurse making this Canada look like a decent team, they would have been much worse without him, but generally shallow, limited team which takes tons of quick, semi-decent-semi- crappy shots. They can have some stretches, but they can't take down deeper and more fundamental teams as Australia and such. They need absolutely funny shooting game to do that, so basically a miracle. Generally I expect Lithuania to play much more intense defence than Australia and Canada provided today. That's not A level defence, none of the teams could bite the ball and slow down the tempo, and even Aussies wanted to do that in the third quarter when Canada messed around with them. Australia still can provide better D, Canada can't...the bench is too short.

Obina
09-01-2019, 09:29 AM
Some Canadians making excuses saying Pangos would not be first choice. He's more effective then Jamal Murray who is overrated.

Please don't.

usagre
09-01-2019, 09:38 AM
Despite all of the Canadian absences I am starting to think that had Olynyk not gotten injured during the exhibition games they would have had an excellent shot at getting out of this group.

I think Australia will beat Lithuania and it will all come down to the Lithuania-Canada game. I’ll take Lithuania in a close one.

Dreamcatcher
09-01-2019, 09:43 AM
Despite all of the Canadian absences I am starting to think that had Olynyk not gotten injured during the exhibition games they would have had an excellent shot at getting out of this group.

I think Australia will beat Lithuania and it will all come down to the Lithuania-Canada game. I’ll take Lithuania in a close one.

I agree. Maybe i'm a bit pessimistic, but i don't see us beating Australia.

Tesla
09-01-2019, 09:52 AM
Again, I spent a season promoting a hyped player in Murray, against a lot of Murray haters. He just kept disappointing me unfortunately. If he can go to the next level, it has to happen 2020.

usagre
09-01-2019, 10:05 AM
Again, I spent a season promoting a hyped player in Murray, against a lot of Murray haters. He just kept disappointing me unfortunately. If he can go to the next level, it has to happen 2020.

It appears those Murray haters you were arguing with are even more clueless than you are.

soulis79
09-01-2019, 10:47 AM
Good game from Boomers. Besides US and probably Serbia, Australia is unmatchable in high tempo games. Ingles was fantastic today. Dellavedova , too. They covered Patt Mills mediocre game today. On Canada side i think that they needed one more guy to help them stay close until the end. I agree that Olynyk's absence is huge. He is the player they "ll miss more on the tournament.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 11:02 AM
Despite all of the Canadian absences I am starting to think that had Olynyk not gotten injured during the exhibition games they would have had an excellent shot at getting out of this group.

I think Australia will beat Lithuania and it will all come down to the Lithuania-Canada game. I’ll take Lithuania in a close one.

Disagree. Yeah, Olynyk is a very good player, but Canada still playing opportunistic, basically one-dimentional basketball based on quick shooting. When there's no Pangos and Cojo, the team is lost. No other options to create something decent. If you're jacking off shots, at least have Murray who would have at least an elite effort at that. You overrate Canada at some extent just as Turkey as well. Those teams playing primitive ball and they will lose against fundamental teams in absolute majority of cases. But I can see your take, you have that tendency to underrate the Euro ball (let's call it) discipline, IMO. Lithuania should provide worse than their B+ game to Canada have a shot. Australia with their B+ game (defensive issues) took down Canada -20 basically.

If there was Olynic and Murray, I would be fine with your position.

usagre
09-01-2019, 11:04 AM
Yeah there was a lot of that but I also saw Joseph and Pangos penetrate and create a lot of good looks for teammates not to mention dunks. And that was with Joseph basically coming in off the street.

usagre
09-01-2019, 11:10 AM
@StraightForward

I can also argue that you tend to overrate the EuroBall/Fiba. I mean let’s replace your two NBA talents with average or even above average FIBA/ Non NBA caliber bigs, what would Lithuania be and look like then ?

LuDux
09-01-2019, 11:15 AM
@StraightForward I can also argue that you tend to overrate the EuroBall/Fiba. I mean let’s replace your two NBA talents with average or even above average FIBA/ Non NBA caliber bigs, what would Lithuania be and look like then ? Like team that had 0 problems qualifying for WC without NBA and EL players?

usagre
09-01-2019, 11:20 AM
Like team that had 0 problems qualifying for WC without NBA and EL players?

Very funny. I am gonna assume that was a joke.

remigijus
09-01-2019, 11:21 AM
Very funny. I am gonna assume that was a joke.

For Latvia or Slovenia it wasnt a joke =DDDDD

usagre
09-01-2019, 11:25 AM
For Latvia or Slovenia it wasnt a joke =DDDDD

Lithuania didn’t need them when you face the likes of a Kosovo, Poland and Hungary. They beat Croatia that did have NBA players but so did Poland, so to me that says a lot more about Croatia than Lithuania.

MrRager
09-01-2019, 11:44 AM
Lithuania came with great intensity on both defense and offense today. That's what you need against teams like Senegal.

Obina
09-01-2019, 11:48 AM
Senegal looks like amateur team from street.

usagre
09-01-2019, 11:51 AM
Teams like Lithuania and Serbia should have played one less preparation game once the FIBA schedule came out.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 11:51 AM
Asomaitis still on panic mode playing Kalnietis till he barely can leave the court with his own feet asking the substitution :) Good old our coach.

CoachZ
09-01-2019, 11:52 AM
Teams like Lithuania and Serbia should have played one less preparation game once the FIBA schedule came out.

We play the Philippines next :D So maybe 2 fewer warmups?

MrRager
09-01-2019, 11:56 AM
Senegal looks like amateur team from street.

Still the best african team, imo.

usagre
09-01-2019, 11:56 AM
In such a mismatch it’s natural for Lithuania to get a little sloppy at times and lose focus. I honestly can’t blame them.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 11:57 AM
Adomaitis overkeeps Jankunas on the court. Also Kuz involvement is zero in the second unit, nice game plan. Ulanovas is posting up bigger guys.

radallo
09-01-2019, 12:01 PM
any streaming for lituania game?

Tevfik1907
09-01-2019, 12:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcR9YRPUQU

madmax
09-01-2019, 12:03 PM
Adomaitis overkeeps Jankunas on the court. Also Kuz involvement is zero in the second unit, nice game plan. Ulanovas is posting up bigger guys.

honestly, Ulanovas should give all of his minutes to Butkevicius instead - a guy can't even post up amateur african players lmao

MrRager
09-01-2019, 12:08 PM
honestly, Ulanovas should give all of his minutes to Butkevicius instead - a guy can't even post up amateur african players lmao

honestly yall both should give up commenting because all you talk is bullshit

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 12:16 PM
honestly yall both should give up commenting because all you talk is bullshit

What? Shitting your pants supporting Zalgiris guys? You don't agree that Kuz should be more involved in the second unit? Use arguments bruh

LDK
09-01-2019, 12:20 PM
Yes, I would like to see more Kuzminskas on offense too. He and GrigonIs are two best players who can create their own shot by using some dribble moves. This could be important against Australia and Canada if our offense starts struggling.

Also all Maciulis haters should shut ip now. He did gr8 job against stronger opponents on defence.

LuDux
09-01-2019, 12:27 PM
SFvsDA'2019

CoachZ
09-01-2019, 12:42 PM
So Kalnietis on assists went over, Valanciunas on rebounds as well. Still Jonas is at 9 points and he was just subbed. I find it hard to believe that he will score 6 more points in this game :( Too bad. Break even on money more or less.

MrRager
09-01-2019, 12:44 PM
What? Shitting your pants supporting Zalgiris guys? You don't agree that Kuz should be more involved in the second unit? Use arguments bruh

Haha shitting my pants? :D I am enjoying basketball, and you are the one shitting your pants and everywhere around you, scraping for dirt when there is none.
Relax a bit, it's just basketball, not the end of the world, like Kazlauskas said.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 12:51 PM
You'll get adequate answer any time you'll try to shut the fuck up anyone here bruh, specially without any argument. Go relax yourself, I'm fine

Jankunas jacking off shot after shot, disrupting consistent offensive flow of Liths. Hopefully just one games syndrome.

CoachZ
09-01-2019, 12:55 PM
C'mon Jonas boy, 2 more points. Daddy needs money for coke and hookers.

EDIT: Fuck, he gets replaced by Sabonis, that is it I think :(

MrRager
09-01-2019, 01:04 PM
You'll get adequate answer any time you'll try to shut the fuck up anyone here bruh, specially without any argument. Go relax yourself, I'm fine

Jankunas jacking off shot after shot, disrupting consistent offensive flow of Liths. Hopefully just one games syndrome.

I am not shutting anyone, I am only shutting those who are looking for shit just because they want to and not because they need to. By the way, if you think I am biased towards any NT player just because of their club - you're wrong, I am not, unlike you are. On the contrary, I think Butkevicius is great and better than Ulanovas/Maciulis and I wanted him to be on the squad instead of Geben or even Ulanovas/Maciulis. But there is a difference between being energy guy from the bench and being a rotational player in the halfcourt offense, which you completely don't understand, because you obviously think that Butkevicius would play the same way if he was a starter.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 01:26 PM
I am not shutting anyone, I am only shutting those who are looking for shit just because they want to and not because they need to. By the way, if you think I am biased towards any NT player just because of their club - you're wrong, I am not, unlike you are. On the contrary, I think Butkevicius is great and better than Ulanovas/Maciulis and I wanted him to be on the squad instead of Geben or even Ulanovas/Maciulis. But there is a difference between being energy guy from the bench and being a rotational player in the halfcourt offense, which you completely don't understand, because you obviously think that Butkevicius would play the same way if he was a starter.

You're either drunk or can't think straight today. I never said Butkevicius should play more than Ulanovas (I jumped on you because you tried to shut me up, I never said I support madmax opinion). I had my doubts about Maciulis before tournament, but he delivered today, so hopefully he'll continue to deliver. According to you Butkevicius is better player overall than Ulanovas and Maciulis? It's not true. They are all pretty much at the same level. And even if I never said Butkevicius is a better player at set offence than Maciulis, Ulanovas, I do believe Butkevicius with his face to face game could be better fit playing along JV and Domas in some stretches (again, you took it from air I want to start him). You don't need three players in the post and Ulanovas failed to deliver anything from perimeter thus far in NT camp basically. I do believe we need expressed face to face scoring SF in a long term playing next to JV and Domas. Now we pound the ball a bit too much in the post, we need more balance, specially against tougher teams.

And how I'm bias towards players? How and which one?

All good today. I just think Jankunas should play a bit less against tough opponents, Kalnietis shouldn't have longer than 6 minutes stretches.

Hepcat
09-01-2019, 02:11 PM
Also all Maciulis haters should shut ip now. He did gr8 job against stronger opponents on defence.

If you think Jonas Mačiulis was going up against stronger opponents, I think you're underestimating his actual strength. And just because many of us Lithuanian fans noted that Mačiulis didn't look very good in the prep games does not mean that there are Mačiulis "haters" among the Lithuania fans contingent here.

:rolleyes:

Hepcat
09-01-2019, 02:16 PM
C'mon Jonas boy, 2 more points. Daddy needs money for coke and hookers.

:D


EDIT: Fuck, he gets replaced by Sabonis, that is it I think :(

Blame Coach Adomaitis. He clearly doesn't want you to get first crack at all the best crack.

:mad:

LuDux
09-01-2019, 02:17 PM
Shooting signature shot after combination designed to free you up to shoot signature shot = disrupting offense

LuDux
09-01-2019, 02:18 PM
:D Blame Coach Adomaitis. He clearly doesn't want you to get first crack on all the best. :mad: I blame him for running Kalnietis into the ground. Tomorrow he'll have to be carried to diner room after playing 22 minutes

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 02:23 PM
Shooting signature shot after combination designed to free you up to shoot signature shot = disrupting offense

Nice try, but nope, you failed it at that. Missed shots is exactly what disrupted the offence and i meant that exactly.. I love Lekavicius and Jankunas p'n'p action, it works nearly to perfection and I think it's the only area where Lekavicius is better than Kalnietis at facilitating. But Jankunas absolutely must make those open mid range jimmies. BTW, Lekavicius overall played nicely, we need him badly.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 02:32 PM
Man, Ludux will come back at me defending Adomaitis any time I make any critical point :) Are you organising some cult where you projecting Adomaitis as a messiah? Dude, he's a public person coaching Lith NT. No-matter how much you adore him, any person in his position will get discussed. Do you really believe Kalnietis' usage wasn't an issue at all in 2016 and 2017? It's nice that Kalnietis played only 22min today, but there was no need to keep him till the point he would ask the substitution him self in the first quarter, the team didn't panic, we absolutely controlled everything in the game. He could play even less. I mean the dude gassed in 2017 after 5 games in the group. We'll have at least 6 games till the knock out stage right? Learn from history.

Hepcat
09-01-2019, 02:34 PM
This is really a good game


Point differential disaster for Canada here. Really Australia dominated 35 of the 40 minutes.

Well Canada made a game of it through three quarters anyway. The Aussies though are just too deep and fundamentally strong.


It's such a shame one of the LTU, AUS, CAN will be eliminated :(

Still very true. Canada I think would finish first in either Groups A or B.

:(

Hepcat
09-01-2019, 02:45 PM
Do you really believe Kalnietis' usage wasn't an issue at all in 2016 and 2017? It's nice that Kalnietis played only 22min today, but there was no need to keep him till the point he would ask the substitution him self in the first quarter, the team didn't panic, we absolutely controlled everything in the game. He could play even less. I mean the dude gassed in 2017 after 5 games in the group.

You know today was probably the day when Coach Adomaitis could have tried out Renaldas Seibutis and Marius Grigonis for a few minutes each at the PG slot to give them game experience in running the offence in the event of an emergency.

:confused:

Terrorizer
09-01-2019, 03:02 PM
Still very true. Canada I think would finish first in either Groups A or B.
:(
Nigeria is not much worse of a team roster-wise than this Canada but chances are high that it won't finish first. Yes, they suffer from a lack of strategy, they have a hole at PG position (where Canada has brilliant Pangos) and their halfcourt offense is really primitive but it is not like that Canada is exceling at smart offensive organization. So I don't think that Group B is that bad, even with all the Russian absences. Or this group is that strong. Lietuva is always more than a sum of its components but most of these components are not really elite. I mean, a veteran scrub like Jankunas is still needed and that says a lot. And Australia is such a mediocre team, especially with this roster majorly lacking depth. I think that if Canadian players had a sensibly organized preparation and didn't suffer from "we are here because all the guys who were wanted to be here don't want to be here" inferiority syndrome, then they should easily handle this Australia team.

LuDux
09-01-2019, 03:03 PM
I noticed that Adomaitis sat Kalnietis too close to arena column. What if it falls downs on him? Maciulis should sit in that most dangerous place

madmax
09-01-2019, 03:08 PM
I noticed that Adomaitis sat Kalnietis too close to arena column. What if it falls downs on him? Maciulis should sit in that most dangerous place

;)
cheeky...

LuDux
09-01-2019, 03:09 PM
Lietuva is always more than a sum of its components but most of these components are not really elite. I mean, a veteran scrub like Jankunas is still needed and that says a lot Mostly that Gudaitis is injured

Terrorizer
09-01-2019, 05:56 PM
Mostly that Gudaitis is injured
Gudaitis is a big miss, for sure, but I'm not sold on this roster even if they had him. Generally, I think that the main problem (certainly not exclusively Lithuanian) is that it lacks true depth and many initially bright prospects fail to progress as much as they should. Like, let's look at PG spot. I always had a very high opinion of Mantas (even when he was a focal part of very harsh critics and ridicule) but he lacks stamina and, as many already noted, in order to be effective he needs to be fresh. And, given his injury history, he needs much less of a wokload, especially in the games with inferior opponents. A couple of years ago it looked like Lekavicius is exactly someone who can take off some of this load from Mantas' shoulders but unfortunately his spell in Pao proved that he is not yet ready and maybe he will never be ready to fill Kalnietis's shoes (not even talking about big Saras-the-player shoes). Vasiliauskas had some great performances, showing good facilitation and excellent shooting skills, for Turkish mid-tier clubs but it seems that he always plays much worse in NT (anti-Kalnietis of sorts) and overall reached his ceiling which is not enough to be a floor general for elite national team. And, given his age, he's not someone with a bright upside for the national team.

Other positions are generally similar. For examle, Ulanovas seems to be stuck at a middle-tier level, doing everything decently but nothing exceptionally (even at the defensive end where he was projected to blossom). Lithuania's lack of size and depth at SF/PF tweener spot looked to become a thing of the past with Kulboka's maturing but, after showing a lot of promise, he's still not there. Immediately before his NBA stint Kuzminskas looked poised to become a leader in NT with extremely useful all-around performances but after his overseas overture he seems to be comfortable with being a role player for a good team (either on a club level, or in NT jerseys). Grigonis finally has a significant role for NT and he looks really good but in order to progress further and become a go-to backcourt option for Lietuva he also needs to prove his worth playing not for a homeside powerhouse but for the highest caliber European club. I suspect that, under comfortable cicumstances, he's quite capable of that but he's 25 now and he's still not playing for all those CSKA/Real Madrids/etc. Other players like Rokas Giedraitis, a very useful guy in a well-organized system, still don't have a trust and a properly formulated role in NT.

So, in the end, current Team Lietuva has two solid NBA frontcourt players, very dependent on the reasonable playmaking (one of whom could be a difference maker, if he would be smart enough to pass the ball back to the arc when double-teamed close to the basket... well, and more agile & less heavy-footed also), a couple of really elite veterans who are way past their prime times (Maciulis, Kalnietis), some players who are seemingly stuck at "good not great" category (Kuzminskas is the best of them, but here we also have Grigonis, Giedraitis and, with a big stretch, Ulanovas and Lekavicius) and a bunch of players who are either washed up or mediocre (or both, like in Jankunas case). For me, that's not a great roster. Nevertheless, Lithuania is always one of the most organized, hard-working, tough and furiously grinding teams out there. And that's what counts a lot in FIBA basketball.

P.S. Well, one last note (and frankly I'm surprised that I'm posting it because I don't even really following this WC): in a current Lithuanian roster club representation is Loko - Zalgiris - Zaragoza - Alba - Zalgiris - Lietuvos Rytas - Zalgiris - Zalgiris - Olympiakos - Pacers - Grizzles. Back in 2007 it was Siena - Barons Riga (well, what was Gustas doing in the NT?) - Zalgiris (22 y.o. Maciulis, by the way) - Unics - CSKA - Wizards - TAU - Nuggets - Siena - Panathinaikos - Zalgiris - Dynamo Moscow. And, most probably, you remember well that all those Lithuanians playing for the best European teams were not of Gece/Pocius/Lekavicius 'tried but failed' variety.

Straight forward
09-01-2019, 06:50 PM
I always had a very high opinion of Mantas (even when he was a focal part of very harsh critics and ridicule) but he lacks stamina and, as many already noted, in order to be effective he needs to be fresh. And, given his injury history, he needs much less of a wokload, especially in the games with inferior opponents.

Many? I am one person as far as I know :D Good to know there's more.



A couple of years ago it looked like Lekavicius is exactly someone who can take off some of this load from Mantas' shoulders but unfortunately his spell in Pao proved that he is not yet ready and maybe he will never be ready to fill Kalnietis's shoes (not even talking about big Saras-the-player shoes). Vasiliauskas had some great performances, showing good facilitation and excellent shooting skills, for Turkish mid-tier clubs but it seems that he always plays much worse in NT (anti-Kalnietis of sorts) and overall reached his ceiling which is not enough to be a floor general for elite national team. And, given his age, he's not someone with a bright upside for the national team.

Depends what you were expecting from Lekavicius. He brings energy, scoring, few assists. He's a role PG and never will be more I think, but he's EL role PG and that's upgrade compared to some Delininkaitis, IMO. Vasiliauskas is not a baller, come on. Dude is soft and generally not even close...Even his skillset was a bit overrated, not mentioning it's poor transition to higher level. We have our hopes on Velicka, Jokubautis (and Marciulionis in much longer run). Jokubaitis is in good hands with Saras, Velicka belongs to Zalgiris either. I think the essential thing for Lithuania is to ripe starting PG in one of them.

madmax
09-01-2019, 08:26 PM
it's pretty much obvious that the first and only real test for Lithuania will be the clash with the boomers in this first phase - Canada doesn't have the personnel and experience to cause any trouble to us in a FIBA environment, even if I have the utmost respect for coach Nick and his abilities to elevate his teams. The game against aussies will truly tell us a lot about what this team is made of and if it's really a medal contending squad or just a pretender like it was 2 years ago at Eurobasket

vivo
09-01-2019, 10:32 PM
Canada doesn't have the personnel and experience to cause any trouble to us in a FIBA environment

Famous last words? :D

Hepcat
09-01-2019, 10:46 PM
Me I think Canada is still a dangerous opponent for anyone.

Incidentally, what's the tie-breaker that's to be used in this tournament? Is it +/- in the games involving the tied teams or is it total +/- in all three games played?

:confused:

Katastroika
09-01-2019, 11:53 PM
As always between teams with same score.

Hoopnation12
09-02-2019, 06:52 AM
So far every match favorite won the game.

iskoch
09-03-2019, 11:42 AM
Canada better team than lithuania i think. İ expect a canada win.

MrRager
09-03-2019, 11:49 AM
Canada is defending much better than I expected. Lithuania looks out of rhythm so far.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 11:55 AM
Horrible match-up for JV. He sucked at both ends of the floor. Adomaitis had to have balls to start Sabonis and small 4. Ulanovas operated well against small 4 of Canada. Respect to Adomaitis substituting offensive and defensive players, that's the flexibility I want to see.

Modis
09-03-2019, 12:12 PM
Wiltjer is a hell of a shooter

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 12:20 PM
Maciulis choking defensively, Jankunas continues to choke offensively and today both JV and Sabonis off offensively so far. But we completely locked Cojo and Pangps thus far.

Sakkreth
09-03-2019, 12:20 PM
Canada better team than lithuania i think. İ expect a canada win.
Sums up your basketball knowledge

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 12:25 PM
Much more complicated, lanky game thus far than I expected. I think we lost offensive tempo starting with 2 centers which was extremely stupid against this Canada team. First huge crappy decision by our scouts and coaches.

MrRager
09-03-2019, 12:30 PM
Much more complicated, lanky game thus far than I expected. I think we lost offensive tempo starting with 2 centers which was extremely stupid against this Canada team. First huge crappy decision by our scouts and coaches.

Indeed, we're struggling on offense and making a lot of mistakes on defense, which let Canada to stay in the game even with Pangos, Birch being in foul trouble early on.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 01:11 PM
Maciulis can get the fuck out...fucking nervous idiot, sucking balls at D all day long, but first to look for scape goat. I want him out of OG team. Go be old and stupid on some-one else

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 01:18 PM
Maciulis can get the fuck out...fucking nervous idiot, sucking balls at D all day long, but first to look for scape goat. I want him out of OG team. Go be old and stupid on some-one else

[deleted] Levenspiel. Mačiulis had good game today and helped us a lot.

About game - referees were horrible in this game. Blowing whistles for every touch.

MrRager
09-03-2019, 01:23 PM
Solid win. Nothing fancy, just the job done. Good job locking Pangos and Joseph down. Canada is simply too short-handed.
I still don't get why some people look for shit that much. Go back to krepsinis.net or delfi, places where this kind of behaviour is a common practice.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 01:23 PM
[deleted] Levenspiel. Mačiulis had good game today and helped us a lot.

About game - referees were horrible in this game. Blowing whistles for every touch.

[deleted]. And stop licking Zalgiris logo, this is NT. If you're OK with Maciulis completely tearing apart team spirit for his own extremely stupid mistakes under the basket, [deleted] Levenspiel.

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 01:29 PM
[deleted]. And stop licking Zalgiris logo, this is NT. If you're OK with Maciulis completely tearing apart team spirit for his own extremely stupid mistakes under the basket, [deleted] Levenspiel.

When you will read 10% of books I read it will be interesting to discuss it. He is tearing your head not teams spirit. Better read your own always crying and screaming comments with zero substance before talking about mine. Seems like you watch his game with one eye open - when he makes a mistake you see it, when he does something good you close it. Go check his stats.
And of course because you have no arguments you start bullshit about Zalgiris. You are so obvious.
P.S. It is interesting why I can't see you crying about Kuziminskas who was total disaster on defense today.

ZaliaBalta
09-03-2019, 01:35 PM
Despite these two stupid underaged kids having a top class discussion here, i would like to interupt and say

Solid win. At least +9 for almost the whole game. LTU-AUS match will be very important for both of the teams.

Modis
09-03-2019, 01:35 PM
If you're OK with Maciulis completely tearing apart team spirit for his own extremely stupid mistakes under the basket, you go an lick Zalgiris logo for one more time, I'm not OK.

lol Saras was doing that almost everytime shouting at everyone like he's some psycho, and although i am against that kind of behaviour these generation of LT teams lacks this a little bit. Nobody is there to step up anymore to adress shit everyone just keeps quiet . Lekavicius i understand his weak character but honestly he needs a good kick in the butt sometimes to start playing .

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 01:36 PM
When you will read 10% of books I read it will be interesting to discuss it. He is tearing your head not teams spirit. Better read your own always crying and screaming comments with zero substance before talking about mine. Seems like you watch his game with one eye open - when he makes a mistake you see it, when he does something good you close it. Go check his stats.
And of course because you have no arguments you start bullshit about Zalgiris. You are so obvious.

[deleted] if you think it's a good idea to go off completely as Maciulis did after his extremely silly personal foul and it's not the first time he does that. He also did this basically at the crunch time, not giving a fuck about the out-come. He just spilled his frustration with his 5th foul not giving a fuck how the team will react of that. Dude is a nutcase, always was, but he used to at least ball some, now he sucked big time. If you think he played well today, [deleted] Levenspiel.

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 01:41 PM
Despite these two stupid underaged kids

Little boy don't you have "namų darbai" to do?

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 01:41 PM
lol Saras was doing that almost everytime shouting at everyone like he's some psycho, and although i am against that kind of behaviour these generation of LT teams lacks this a little bit. Nobody is there to step up anymore to adress shit everyone just keeps quiet . Lekavicius i understand his weak character but honestly he needs a good kick in the butt sometimes to start playing .

Saras never spilled frustration as a stupid idiot. He was hot, but he always was spot on. Now Maciulis could foul Cojo early if he wanted, but chose sissy foul which leaded to 2+1. He knew it was his 5th fould so he openly looked for a scape goat and got Lekavicius. Name where Jasikevicius would go off at inferior players for his own mistakes. You won't find it. And Saras is El anf FIBA legend. Maciulis a freakin' role player in any team.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 01:44 PM
Despite these two stupid underaged kids having a top class discussion here, i would like to interupt and say

Solid win. At least +9 for almost the whole game. LTU-AUS match will be very important for both of the teams.

Bullshit. The team performed -B. I'm sick and tired with Commentator saying we absolutely control the game and everything just goes smooth. The team played a semi-crappy game. Nothing less. Both D and O was pretty much crappy. The effort and size gave us win against this Canada, but the game generally disappointing.

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 01:44 PM
[deleted] if you think it's a good idea to go off completely as Maciulis did after his extremely silly personal foul and it's not the first time he does that. He also did this basically at the crunch time, not giving a fuck about the out-come. He just spilled his frustration with his 5th foul not giving a fuck how the team will react of that. Dude is a nutcase, always was, but he used to at least ball some, now he sucked big time. If you think he played well today, [deleted] Levenspiel.

[deleted] Levenspiel. if you think, that player is completely done and it is ok to start shitting campaign against him because this one episode. I could tell you like 3 or 4 such episodes just of the top of my memory (Sabonis, Jasikevičius)- go shit on these players too.

MrRager
09-03-2019, 01:49 PM
Guys, Lithuania so far played better than expected, secured it's way to second group without much trouble and instead of celebrating that you are here comparing dic*s with each other. What is wrong with you?

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 01:49 PM
[deleted] Levenspiel. if you think, that player is completely done and it is ok to start shitting campaign against him because this one episode. I could tell you like 3 or 4 such episodes just of the top of my memory (Sabonis, Jasikevičius)- go shit on these players too.

Give me those moments. I don't remember when a player who say sooo hugge "fuck you" to team spirit as Maciulis did tonight. The key was, that it wasn't Lekavicius foult, he wasn't even there to have an opportunity to foul Cojo early. It was classical fast brake and Lekavicius has nothing to do with that. Maciulis absolutely chose a victim to spill his frustration and he never went as brutal as he did this time ever. Go and justify that, I won't.

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 01:50 PM
Saras never spilled frustration as a stupid idiot. He was hot, but he always was spot on.

Jasikevičius didn't have mental brakes? Use Bilobil.

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 01:57 PM
Give me those moments. I don't remember when a player who say sooo hugge "fuck you" to team spirit as Maciulis did tonight. The key was, that it wasn't Lekavicius foult, he wasn't even there to have an opportunity to foul Cojo early. It was classical fast brake and Lekavicius has nothing to do with that. Maciulis absolutely chose a victim to spill his frustration and he never went as brutal as he did this time ever. Go and justify that, I won't.

Sabonis mental break against Cibona in 1986 that cost Zalgiris victory basicly. You don't remember that?
Sabonis mental break in 1995 championship after referee didn't call arguable foul? You don't remember that?
Jasikevicius running to referee after called foul so fast and with such face that referee run away and gave him technical in 2004 Olympics if I remember correct?
I have most of our NT games - there are enough of such episodes.
Justify what? Seems like you just trying to find a stick to beat. Did you hear what he was saying? I didn't so keep your fantasies to yourself.

Modis
09-03-2019, 01:57 PM
Give me those moments. I don't remember when a player who say sooo hugge "fuck you" to team spirit as Maciulis did tonight. The key was, that it wasn't Lekavicius foult, he wasn't even there to have an opportunity to foul Cojo early. It was classical fast brake and Lekavicius has nothing to do with that. Maciulis absolutely chose a victim to spill his frustration and he never went as brutal as he did this time ever. Go and justify that, I won't.

Do you think Maciulis such veteran as him that played in that golden generation and was not once screamed from Saras himself had so many lessons wouldn't have a reason here ? I don't know i need rewatch what happened there closer than but my thoughts were that Leakavicius didn't come back to defence fast enough .

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 01:58 PM
Sabonis mental break against Cibona in 1986 that cost Zalgiris victory basicly. You don't remember that?
Sabonis mental break in 1995 championship after referee didn't call arguable foul? You don't remember that?
Jasikevicius running to referee after called foul so fast and with such face that referee run away and gave him technical in 2004 Olympics if I remember correct?
I have most of our NT games - there are enough of such episodes.

I asked you precisely when they jumped on a teammate like Maciulis did because of their own mistake?

And note you're quoting Sabas and Saras...I mean...

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 02:05 PM
I asked you precisely when they jumped on a teammate like Maciulis did because of their own mistake?

And note you're quoting Sabas and Saras...I mean...

You really asked about screaming at teammates? Jasikevicius did it every freak'n game. Not even talking about Sabonis generation.
Or maybe you want to remember Zukauskas screaming at Slanina in 2003 final game? Such episodes happen constantly, just you are doing some elephant out of them. They are not crying girls.
And I am asking again - do you know what he said to Lekavičius? It is all your fantasies.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 02:09 PM
You really asked about screaming at teammates? Jasikevicius did it every freak'n game. Not even talking about Sabonis generation.
Or maybe you want to remember Zukauskas screaming at Slanina in 2003 final game? Such episodes happen constantly, just you are doing some elephant out of them. They are not crying girls.
And I am asking again - do you know what he said to Lekavičius? It is all your fantasies.

OK, Eurelijus moment is a spot on. And it looked silly and dumb by Zukauskas, wasn't it? It's not only important what he said, but how he said. Again, he screwed up and then brutally went off at the teammate. I'm sorry but Saras emotions were different, he was yelling but with the attempt to make a legitimate point to a tammates, Maciulis simply goes off, pure stupid frustration

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 02:18 PM
OK, Eurelijus moment is a spot on. And it looked silly and dumb by Zukauskas, wasn't it?

Yes it did look silly and it happened at the crucial moments of the game. So Eurelijus is finished because of that?


It's not only important what he said, but how he said.

Do you really judge players tone in the heat of the game? Do you know what is happening in locker room? Do you know what did he scream? Maybe Lekavicius did wrong combination earlier and Maciulis was talking about that? I'm often stunned how easily people jump to world level conclusions with so little knowledge's what really had happened.


Again, he screwed up and then brutally went off at the teammate.

Are you sure do you know what king of agreements they had on defense? Even if it is so, ok - bad episode. So?


I'm sorry but Saras emotions were different, he was yelling but with the attempt to make a legitimate point to a tammates, Maciulis simply goes off, pure stupid frustration

Did you really saw Jasikevicius playing? You really didn't see how often his teammates were saving his ass on defense and how often he screamed at them about that? You have selective memory.

MrRager
09-03-2019, 02:21 PM
OK, Eurelijus moment is a spot on. And it looked silly and dumb by Zukauskas, wasn't it? It's not only important what he said, but how he said. Again, he screwed up and then brutally went off at the teammate. I'm sorry but Saras emotions were different, he was yelling but with the attempt to make a legitimate point to a tammates, Maciulis simply goes off, pure stupid frustration

The outbursts of Maciulis are a real thing. Just remember how he shouted at poor Kalnietis some ~12 years ago after his mistake. But I guess it's tolerated. I assume Maciulis even apologizes after the game for it. It's just how he is. Nobody said anything bad about him. On the contrary, everyone is saying how Maciulis, Kalnietis and other veterans are responsible for building great atmosphere in the locker room.

Modis
09-03-2019, 02:26 PM
Spot on from Ashtrusis_dantis here in this discussion.

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 02:27 PM
The outbursts of Maciulis are a real thing. Just remember how he shouted at poor Kalnietis some ~12 years ago after his mistake. But I guess it's tolerated. I assume Maciulis even apologizes after the game for it. It's just how he is. Nobody said anything bad about him. On the contrary, everyone is saying how Maciulis, Kalnietis and other veterans are responsible for building great atmosphere in the locker room.

Took words out of my mouth. In the heat of the game such passionate and devoted player like Maciulis possibly can scream or say something. Chemistry is build in different ways. And I will take player who really want to win and sometimes emotions takes him over player like Kuzminskas, who is so calm and intelligent that can't even put his body on defense.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 02:39 PM
Yes it did look silly and it happened at the crucial moments of the game. So Eurelijus is finished because of that?

It's not about the question he is done or not, it's a question whenever it's justifiable. Such things can ruin the team, it's happens. There were plenty of Serbian teams who had inside problems, we also had some sparks during exhibition (f.e. Grigonis yelled at Kuz in the agme against Russia, but it wasn't absolute fustration, it was more like he wanted to make the point to Kuz, and still I think Grigonis overdid with emotions). Now tell me that Lukas is the guy who you can yell at him badly? Dude is a sensitive, introverted guy. Not to mention that Maciulis emotions were excessive no matter who would be the target. I disagree that these things are not important.

The thing is, that even if Maciulis had to say something generally, it was obvious it came from his frustration that he screwed up. Again, do you really have a precise moment of Saras yelling at teammate as Maciulis did tonight or here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvhNo7pWcF8 I don't remember that. Some yelling yes, but no direct and brutal take off

As for Maciulis, he is still decent. He is no good anymore, even though I will make decisions after WC. The point is that Lekavicius for this team is way more important and we badly need his aggression and scoring. Maciulis is pretty similar player to Ulanovas and the latter is better ATM and there's still Butkevicius. If there wouldn't be Lekavicius it would be a huge blow, if there wouldn't be Maciulis we barely would notice as simply Butkevicius play more. If Maciulis acts like a scumbag, I'm all for living without his now days contribution in next tournament.

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-03-2019, 02:46 PM
Now tell me that Lukas is the guy who you can yell at him badly? Dude is a sensitive, introverted guy.

Are you serious? Lekavicius was coached by Jasikevicius. Read in our media about Jasikevicius methods. Some legionnaires said it took some time to get used to it. And somehow he was getting better under him. And now he will break because Maciulis shouted at him? That claim is laughable.
P.S. And yes Jasikevicius was screaming at his teammates even after his own mistakes - watch 2007 EC.
P.P.S. By the way - didn't you notice that Lekavicius started to play even better after Maciulis shouted at him?

MrRager
09-03-2019, 02:57 PM
Haha, Lukas is sensitive, hahaha. YOU ARE SENSITIVE. Guy played under Sharas, spent two years in crazy Athens, he has grown some thick skin in this time, believe me. And he's showing that on the court. Did you see him play last two games? He doesn't fear anyone.
Kuzminskas, on the other hand, might be labeled as sensitive. But Lukas is mentally strong now, even if shy.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 02:59 PM
Are you serious? Lekavicius was coached by Jasikevicius. Read in our media about Jasikevicius methods. Some legionnaires said it took some time to get used to it. And somehow he was getting better under him. And now he will break because Maciulis shouted at him? That claim is laughable.
P.S. And yes Jasikevicius was screaming at his teammates even after his own mistakes - watch 2007 EC.

It's a coach you know :D You didn't notice? So you're saying Maciulis did a good job, let's keep it up? Anyway, I made my point.

Regarding NT performance, I'm surprised how most people take it as a good game. Canada looked weak as expected and we lacked precision and flow at offensive end, the same goes defensively, even if the effort was consistent.

I think we lack identity with the second unit. Kuzminskas is not involved, there's no sets for him. Seibutis is stopping the flow at O, Lekavicius should be much more expressed ball handler and facilitator. I understand Seibutis usage tonight, but I think we need Giedraitis at the second unit.

A win is a win, but we won't win, IMO, with such performance against top teams as Australia, France and those coming.

markkanen
09-03-2019, 03:02 PM
Great and important win, let's beat Australia now and win the first place.

mojo13
09-03-2019, 03:48 PM
Well that went as expected for Canada. Not enough top end talent, size or depth to compete with Australia or even Lithuania. We'd need to bring far superior talent to make up for the lack of experience and cohesiveness. Cory Joseph looked like he missed the entire training camp (oh snap!) and at his best both he and Khem Birch are complementary role players, not the go to leaders on any top tier team. With them as our supposed best players we can expect wins over Asian, African and Americas teams but certainly not top tier European, Australia, USA caliber teams.

Oh..well moving on to set our sights on Senegal, Jordan and unfortunately Germany (how the heck did they lose to the DR?). We need to win all those games to be guaranteed a spot in the Olympic Qualifiers. One loss could do it - but that would put us on the edge.

Hepcat
09-03-2019, 05:21 PM
With respect to Jonas Mačiulis being out of line, Lithuania has the leadership in such players as Mantas Kalnietis, Paulius Jankūnas, Renaldas Seibutis and even respected youngster Jonas Valančiūnas to tell him so in the locker room.That's why every team needs a veteran component.

And with respect to Lukas Lekavičius being the shy sensitive sort, that may be so in public or even with girls/women. But he's now a seasoned pro so I suspect that he transforms into the sternest of stuff the moment he steps onto the floor. I mean look at the monsters he's gone up against each and every time Team Lietuva has played. You can't be a sensitive sort as a pro athlete. You have to have a whole bunch of a "Yeah, well f___ you, ___hole!" attitude the moment you step into a game.

Dreamcatcher
09-03-2019, 05:23 PM
So mainly all this discussion was about Maciulis screaming on Lekavicius? That's pathetic. I mean Straight Forward tends to call some members idiots and kids and to send them to some k.net meaning their pathetic level but himself has done even worse.

About the game: the one against Canada and the first one as well made me more positive before the game against Australia than before the tournament.

Hepcat
09-03-2019, 05:25 PM
Well that went as expected for Canada. Not enough top end talent, size or depth to compete with Australia or even Lithuania. We'd need to bring far superior talent to make up for the lack of experience and cohesiveness. Cory Joseph looked like he missed the entire training camp (oh snap!) and at his best both he and Khem Birch are complementary role players, not the go to leaders on any top tier team. With them as our supposed best players we can expect wins over Asian, African and Americas teams but certainly not top tier European, Australia, USA caliber teams.

Oh..well moving on to set our sights on Senegal, Jordan and unfortunately Germany (how the heck did they lose to the DR?). We need to win all those games to be guaranteed a spot in the Olympic Qualifiers. One loss could do it - but that would put us on the edge.

Yeah, I thought Canada would be better as well. Nick Nurse might be a very good coach, but he was facing a nearly impossible task in trying to build a cohesive team amidst such turmoil when it came to personnel.

:(

Hepcat
09-03-2019, 05:29 PM
About the game: the one against Canada and the first one as well made me more positive before the game against Australia than before the tournament.

I agree. The margin of victory in those two games has I'm sure raised some eyebrows as well as concerned frowns on the brows of the Australian and French team coaching staffs.

:cool:

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 05:49 PM
After watching all of the favorites past 4 days, I came to the conclusion that Lithuania is the strongest Tier 2 team in the tournament now. If we say that USA, Serbia are close in Tier 1, then Lithuania is above the others. They haven't really played up to their full potential but looked strong in both of their games. These are my main observations:

- They are probably the best rebounding team in the tournament. Every single position on the roster has willing and capable rebounders and this is extreeeeeemely important when you are playing close games. Valanciunas and Sabonis are the leaders, but guys like Ulanovas, Jankunas, Kuzminskas, Kalinetis, Maciulis are also very solid and they like to box out and go for the ball. I can't emphasize enough how important will this be in close games. They don't give out easy second chance points and they are probably the best offensive rebounding team outside of Team USA in the tournament as well.

- They don't commit nearly as many turnovers as their rivals. They don't push the ball like Serbia and Australia and that's why they commit 4 turnovers less a game. This is also quite important for tight games.

- They look solid even though they have been awful from the outside. Their shot is not falling, with just 30% from 3, main offenders Lekavicius and Ulanovas who are yet to hit a three, and Grigonis who is hitting at 33%. Kalnietis is feeling it at 50%, Kuzminskas as well, Maciulis at 42.7%.

- They hit their free throws. 80+% as a team, once again key in the knockout games.

- They are top 5 in all offensive categories that matter, like assits, efficency, FG percentage.

France is the best defensive team of the tournamet, that is clear but that offense looks stagnant and way to individualistic. Team USA we have already covered. Spain is probably the closest to them, but I see a lot of problems with their offense, they don't look nearly as potent. Their shots are not falling nearly as well, they don't hustle much, they are weak and vulnerable at several positions. Greeks could always surprise but the blueprint on how to beat them is pretty simple and if you are disciplined in it, they don't have as many options. Australia is running a high-school offense on steriods basically and they haven't really been challenged so far. I still don't like their guards, questionable decision making, lacking size for the defense. I also think they are missing a lot of athleticism at C and PF spots, that will haunt them in key games.

So, my money is on Lithuania to make a run at it. Maybe not the most talented Tier 2 on paper, but a better system and more cohesive unit than others.

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 06:06 PM
Also, several notes on Australia:

- They are already playing a knockout rotation even though they have faced inferior squads. 8 Guys are getting minutes.

- They have taken the ball out of Patty Mills' hands, this is the key to their quick improvement compared to the first game versus Team USA and these nice wins they have done. Patty Mills is now running around screens, getting to spots for his shot and looking for mismatches when attacking the hoop.

- Bogut will try to orchestrate from high post, and get cutters involved, still ball will always find Ingles and Dellavedova to run the offense.

- Their lineups always feature maximum 3 shooters, sometimes 2. Usually it's Deli, Mills and Ingles, the others don't even look at that shot. That is a handicap, if you pressure the ball and the perimeter, there are no ways for them to stretch you. In total they have 4 shooters in the roster out of those 8, but Goulding is a bench player. They can run sets with Ingles at the 4, try to small ball you and involve Goulding, but they would get massacred on defense with that.

- I am not too optimistic on how they will handle the second group. We will see them at Lithuania, where I expect them to get roughed up pretty well. Especially their smallish guards. Just watch the Serbia - Australia Rio Semi-Final and you will see how they respond to defensive pressure.

mojo13
09-03-2019, 06:31 PM
Finally some fire from the Canadian media.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/canada-basketballs-progress-unravels-disappointing-world-cup/

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 06:54 PM
CoachZ, good post. Finally some-one who observe the game. Lithuania yet didn't even execute at the level we seen in exhibition games against Serbia offensively. We were below that and the pts margin in the game against Canada doesn't really tell the story. It felt like Canada can very much come back into the game with a good stretch, we played on the edge controlling the game and losing the control. I actually like that because we peaked too early in 2016 and probably even 2017, this time I think we yet to play our best BB.

I think we need to wait till Australia game to say what you just said. Against Serbia some of our sets simply didn't work, that was obvious, specially some more complicated sets involving JV and Sabonis. Serbia disrupted big to big passing in most cases. Australia will be much similar opponent with huge frontline so we'll see more precise picture. Against Serbia we relied on a solid shooting to stay in the a game, so far we didn't shoot the ball well and I'm not sure it's coming when it will be highly needed, we don't have elite shooters to rely on a consistent basis.

Also our defence will be highly tested. Australia is still elite team at sharing the ball, quick reads, passes, finding cutters, ect. It's one thing to lock Canada, another top teams as Aussies. I do feel that Australia still more talented offensive team, but we are deeper and hopefully better rebounding and defending team.

Another thing which you didn't mention is that both Baynes and Landale can pretty comfotably shoot threes and they do, specially Baynes. JV is poor p'n'r defender, Kalnietis is not good either, and Australia eat us alive utilizing this component in 2016. Now we also have that p'n'p treat as Australian bigs can shoot.

To me, it's a 50/50 game, and I would love to see Adomaitis using broad rotation, not overusing anyone. We need to deliver our A defensive pressure and utilize much deeper bench. Maybe we could even use all 12 players, I would actually want to see that.

madmax
09-03-2019, 07:59 PM
Couldn't watch the game, but the final score and the outcome are pretty much as expected - Canada just doesn't have horses to keep up with deep physical teams like Lithuania and Australia. Judging from the boxscore, Joseph was trying to take over and will the team by himself but failed spectacularly, as he is out of any game shape to do so. JV didn't play much, which is probably for the better, since we will need all of his effort and energy to contain two aussie bigs soon. Overall, a workmanlike performance without much fuss all around it seems

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 08:00 PM
CoachZ, good post. Finally some-one who observe the game. Lithuania yet didn't even execute at the level we seen in exhibition games against Serbia offensively. We were below that and the pts margin in the game against Canada doesn't really tell the story. It felt like Canada can very much come back into the game with a good stretch, we played on the edge controlling the game and losing the control. I actually like that because we peaked too early in 2016 and probably even 2017, this time I think we yet to play our best BB.

I think we need to wait till Australia game to say what you just said. Against Serbia some of our sets simply didn't work, that was obvious, specially some more complicated sets involving JV and Sabonis. Serbia disrupted big to big passing in most cases. Australia will be much similar opponent with huge frontline so we'll see more precise picture. Against Serbia we relied on a solid shooting to stay in the a game, so far we didn't shoot the ball well and I'm not sure it's coming when it will be highly needed, we don't have elite shooters to rely on a consistent basis.

Also our defence will be highly tested. Australia is still elite team at sharing the ball, quick reads, passes, finding cutters, ect. It's one thing to lock Canada, another top teams as Aussies. I do feel that Australia still more talented offensive team, but we are deeper and hopefully better rebounding and defending team.

Another thing which you didn't mention is that both Baynes and Landale can pretty comfotably shoot threes and they do, specially Baynes. JV is poor p'n'r defender, Kalnietis is not good either, and Australia eat us alive utilizing this component in 2016. Now we also have that p'n'p treat as Australian bigs can shoot.

To me, it's a 50/50 game, and I would love to see Adomaitis using broad rotation, not overusing anyone. We need to deliver our A defensive pressure and utilize much deeper bench. Maybe we could even use all 12 players, I would actually want to see that.

Agree with most of the things, except the part about Baynes and Landale. You want them to shoot, that is the point. They are neither good shooters or reliable. Both of them, it's the first year they are trying to shoot the 3, they attempted something like 1 a games and were around 33-35% in cases where they are wideeeeeee open.

Also if you look at the stats from the first two games, Landale shot some, but Baynes didn't. You can't call them shooters or count them as stretch.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 09:19 PM
OT: Back to that Maciulis episode, even if I'm risking to be throw out of interbasket :D

Re-watched that situation and as expected it wasn't Lekavicius fault. He tried to make an early foul on Pangos, but the refs didn't whistle and Pangos got away with a quick pass to the Cojo in the corner were Cojo caught Maciulis out of position making a stupid foul. And Maciulis exploded.

BTW, question to non-bias, non- Lith posters who saw the situation (Or use this as an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G26Si1Zc54). Do we have a player in entire WC who could go at his teammate on the same fashion? Somehow I'm having a hard time to pick at least one. For some reason some conformist Liths pretend that's a good common practice.

Katastroika
09-03-2019, 09:23 PM
Well, one who was visible at the video you posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChBVGmJQjaY

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09tZ-9Mxums

I really see nothing bad in this things. It's not ballett. I remember when I played as a child there were much worse situations than on professional level, not to speak for street basket.

madmax
09-03-2019, 09:33 PM
Maciulis is a fluffy Teddy Bear compared to Teodosic and his crazy antics lol:D

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 09:35 PM
I don't know what was the situations Teo complained about. Maciulis clearly spit his rage without obvious if any reason simply getting nuts with with his 5th foul. I wouldn't want to play with a teammate who can get crazy because of his own mistakes. It's not the first situation this summer he goes on Lekavicius. He always choose inferior guy. He never schools Grigonis this way even if Lekavicius is the same age. He knows Grigonis would fire back big time to him. The same with Kalnietis. Never seen him going at Jankunas.

Katastroika
09-03-2019, 09:41 PM
I don't know who he choses for losing his temper but in basketball it's like in real life - everyone of us knows people, has friends or family members who are really hot tempered (some at the borderline to being psychopatic). Those people are usually very kind but lose their temper badly ins some situations. In sports, my personal experience tells me, that those are most often the greatest leaders and best friends in the team. Nobody should put to much attention to such details. Of course this is anoying but who the fuck cares in the end. If you cannot deal with such things I think you failed your profession. And yeah, it also shows how badly this type of people want to win what is very important to a game. Noone wins championships with 12 good guys. Non even Golden State Warriors.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 09:48 PM
I don't know who he choses for losing his temper but in basketball it's like in real life - everyone of us knows people, has friends or family members who are really hot tempered (some at the borderline to being psychopatic). Those people are usually very kind but lose their temper badly ins some situations. In sports, my personal experience tells me, that those are most often the greatest leaders and best friends in the team. Nobody should put to much attention to such details. Of course this is anoying but who the fuck cares in the end. If you cannot deal with such things I think you failed your profession. And yeah, it also shows how badly this type of people want to win what is very important to a game. Noone wins championships with 12 good guys. Non even Golden State Warriors.

That's huge myth :D Let's test best WC's players:

Jokic - teddy
Walker - very much in tact
JV, Sabonis or Kalnietis - super nice guys
Fournier - never seen any issues
Marc Gasol - super nice guy
Iliasova - super calm guy
Mills - great teammate

and so on and so on...

It's absolute minority, if any.

Katastroika
09-03-2019, 09:52 PM
I didn't speak for leaders but for team members. Sorry if this was misunderstanding.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 09:55 PM
In sports, my personal experience tells me, that those are most often the greatest leaders and

I had this in mind. Look at top NBA player. Among top 10 NBA players not a single nutcase. Maybe Embiid, but that's all.

CoachZ
09-03-2019, 09:58 PM
That's huge myth :D Let's test best WC's players:

Jokic - teddy
Walker - very much in tact
JV, Sabonis or Kalnietis - super nice guys
Fournier - never seen any issues
Marc Gasol - super nice guy
Iliasova - super calm guy
Mills - great teammate

and so on and so on...

It's absolute minority, if any.

More or less, but you have to understand that the best players on a team are often not the leaders and the ones that keep the team together. In Australia, that's Dellavedova/Ingles duo, they are both brutes in their own way. Our old teams it was Divac or Djordjevic, who was always really tough on teammates, the same way he is a coach now. Argentina, Scola and Ginobili are also fiery guys etc. Current team Serbia, the real leader of the team is Djordjevic. For better or worse, he has taken that full burden on himself and it's up to the players to just play.

I also don't like these kind of antics that Maciulis does. Teodosic in reality is more yelling at all of them and himself included "WTF are we doing, nobody rebounds, let's fucking go home etc.". He is not really the guy to go off on people individually or blame them.

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 10:05 PM
I also don't like these kind of antics that Maciulis does. Teodosic in reality is more yelling at all of them and himself included "WTF are we doing, nobody rebounds, let's fucking go home etc.". He is not really the guy to go off on people individually or blame them.

Good point above, you need those brute guys like Green for Warriors, but that's exactly the difference. Jasikevicius also had his own ways to intimidate teammates, but it wasn't as personal and brutal as in Maciulis case, he was doing it without completely losing it. Maciulis just yells at them as as those were his "bitc...". Like current Lithuania would be lazy, soft and out of focus...dude just simple nutcase.

Mindozas
09-03-2019, 10:13 PM
Jeez, SF just admit it, you wouldn't even mention it if it wasn't Lekavicius, your darling player :D And I won't believe a bit if you'll say it isn't so, not a bit. It's really funny to read all this stuff, how you're trying to picture Maciulis as some evil and Lekavicius as some bullied victim. If I wouldn't have seen the game, I'd think that some fight happened, Maciulis beat the crap out of Lekavicius, but it was random episode, which happens frequently, just not everything is shown on TV. Yeah, SF, teammates argue too, especially in the heat of the moment. I'm sure both of them already forgot about it for hours, Lekavicius had some words back and played like nothing happened, just you can't get over it and bring drama to IBN :)

Straight forward
09-03-2019, 10:27 PM
Jeez, SF just admit it, you wouldn't even mention it if it wasn't Lekavicius, your darling player :D And I won't believe a bit if you'll say it isn't so, not a bit. It's really funny to read all this stuff, how you're trying to picture Maciulis as some evil and Lekavicius as some bullied victim. If I wouldn't have seen the game, I'd think that some fight happened, Maciulis beat the crap out of Lekavicius, but it was random episode, which happens frequently, just not everything is shown on TV. Yeah, SF, teammates argue too, especially in the heat of the moment. I'm sure both of them already forgot about it for hours, Lekavicius had some words back and played like nothing happened, just you can't get over it and bring drama to IBN :)

Look, bruh, I would look funny if I would try to deny that I have my darlings, at the end of the day we all do. It's Sabonis, Grigonis, Lekavicius and maybe Kuz as my favourite players of NT at the moment. But I dislike Maciulis as a person for long days, long days. Can't remember if sooner than that Kalnietis' situation, but about that. I hate it how he was knocking down Caspi and sh. He always looked a thug and primitive person to me. He had his up and downs with the NT, but usually get away with some clutch moments and so on, so you can't deny his impact as a player. He was superb in 2015, simply superb. But I still hate him as a teammate. Maybe I'm too sensitive, I would be stressed playing next to a guy who can take off anytime he feels like and none of current Liths have balls to calm down him a little bit. I remember when JV was really pissed on Juskevicius in WC group stage for not throwing the ball inside the paint, D-Mo backed Juskevicius up, saying guys cut the shit. When Maciulis get absolutely crazy, no-body's there to calm him a little bit. I'm not saying the sky is falling and Maciulis will ruin the team spirit or whatever. But I hate that kind of antics, that's all. You know me hating Babrauskas, he's very much the same kind, and he was screaming and yelling on young JV (and others) like a bitch and I hate it, but now they still go to Zalgiris' arena together. My point is, I think any team is better off without such "experimenting" with teammates nerves, even if that doesn't lead to a collapse of team's coherence.

Mindozas
09-03-2019, 10:47 PM
Look, bruh, I would look funny if I would try to deny that I have my darlings, at the end of the day we all do. It's Sabonis, Grigonis, Lekavicius and maybe Kuz as my favourite players of NT at the moment. But I dislike Maciulis as a person for long days, long days. Can't remember if sooner than that Kalnietis' situation, but about that. I hate it how he was knocking down Caspi and sh. He always looked a thug and primitive person to me. He had his up and downs with the NT, but usually get away with some clutch moments and so on, so you can't deny his impact as a player. He was superb in 2015, simply superb. But I still hate him as a teammate. Maybe I'm too sensitive, I would be stressed playing next to a guy who can take off anytime he feels like and none of current Liths have balls to calm down him a little bit. I remember when JV was really pissed on Juskevicius in WC group stage for not throwing the ball inside the paint, D-Mo backed Juskevicius up, saying guys cut the shit. When Maciulis get absolutely crazy, no-body's there to calm him a little bit. I'm not saying the sky is falling and Maciulis will ruin the team spirit or whatever. But I hate that kind of antics, that's all. You know me hating Babrauskas, he's very much the same kind, and he was screaming and yelling on young JV (and others) like a bitch and I hate it, but now they still go to Zalgiris' arena together. My point is, I think any team is better off without such "experimenting" with teammates nerves, even if that doesn't lead to a collapse of team's coherence.

Well, good that at least you are man enough to admit that it has a lot to do with your personal likes/dislikes. Overall, probably every team has such players, but they are also valued. The same Babrauskas in Rytas was not just a random player, but a captain. Teammates saw not some bully in him, but a real fighter, who cares about a team. As a Zalgiris fan I disliked him too, but outside the court he was likable guy, the same Saras are quite good friends with him. The same goes with Maciulis. Sure, he has some redneck in him, but overall fun guy to hangout with. Of course all these yells might look rough and ugly from the side, but it's normal when you are in that team. Everyone knows each other very well, so it's not a big deal when someone yells or has some harsher word to say. I guess if you'd come to play with my team, you'd be shocked, even in practices there are so many verbal fight, ffs, especially from couple of guys, but for us it's normal thing, nobody pays attention. Everyone forgets about it after practice is over and all together goes for a beer

Hepcat
09-03-2019, 11:30 PM
Never seen him going at Jankunas.

:eek:

Well nobody said he was stupid.

;)

Look. The ultimate authority figure is a regular presence in Team Lietuva's locker room, that being the President of the Lithuanian Basketball Federation. If something needs to be said to a player, any player, I don't think Arvydas Sabonis will be too shy.

:)

LuDux
09-04-2019, 12:09 AM
https://twitter.com/fawltytowers_/status/656243781344165888

Tesla
09-04-2019, 02:55 AM
Lithuania were just a pleasure to watch against Canada. Can't wait to watch Lithuania v Australia. Biggest matchup so far.

Shawshank
09-04-2019, 04:45 AM
If Maciulis would be such bad teammate he wouldn't be able to be ltu NT member for so long 12years now...Straightforward just can't stand Maciulis,he already wanted he gone from NT team in 2014 world cup when Jonas was on his peak .

Lekavicius didn't made faul stopping fast break when team had fauls to give and that is adomaitis defence in such situations all summer long and maciulis had to made his 5th that's why he was upset.He was right,but didn't needed to react like that when we are leading that much,but thats Maciulis. I would rather have such fighter on my side than playing againts.

Maciulis can be tough on his teammates, but damn he is even tougher on our opponent's and always was literally beating them up year after year.The men wants to win and have no problems with him, when situation is tough,when most guys are melting down from pressure,Jonas have shown over and over again his such furious character helps us alot in tough moments.Now he is older and not same player and that sometimes frustrating for him I'm sure,but to claim that he killing atmosphere or something its just nonsense.

We cant have only good guys, all good teams need to had bad guy too,the one that gonna tell you truth in your eyes you liked or not,but such players is the one you want to go to war with in playoofs.The ones that will not back down to nobody and literally are ready to fight againts anybody if it will be needed to win.

MrRager
09-04-2019, 05:57 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Maciulis shouting at Lukas because he didnt stay with Joseph and left him wide open in the corner, which led to Pangos pass to him (Lukas couldn't commit the foul on Pangos, he was too far away, Kevin passed the ball to Joseph before Lukas got to him) and open path for Joseph to the basket? Maciulis couldn't get to him in time also, because he was containing Birch on the fast break. So I think it was a major mistake by Lukas, he should've stayed with Joseph, Maciulis was already under the basket with Domas trailing behind (but still in front of Pangos), so Pangos would've had no choice other than to stop the fastbreak or try to make a contested layup.
EDIT: Or to attempt a three pointer in transition.

Shawshank
09-04-2019, 07:26 AM
But looking at game versus Canada I loved the passion of our guys! Valanciunas have no problem playing only 18min and sincerely happy when Domas scores.Its not about who the best player on our team,it's more about the player that fits better for that days opponent that plays more.Couple times Valanciunas gave emotional 5 to Sabonis and it was Yes! When your best player are locked in together it will make this team hard to beat.

So far I was impressed with our coach, we have to give credit for his job so far.Team looks focused and well prepared as one unit.

Againts Australia game will show us how good we really are.

Straight forward
09-04-2019, 10:11 AM
ludux, if you have any self-respect just say it openly instead of pushing here pathetic and ecstatic quotes. If you want to go with direct insults, don't shy away, don't sneak around like hyena with your toll like vague hints and allusions. Avoid throwing names at me because I will be forced to fire back as in the case with astrusis dantis. Don't act like I stamped your arrrss in previous conversations so you're trying to attack me from my back now, or sneaking from the corners. I have no problem arguing and confronting different opinion, also being convinced to change my mind if I get new convincing arguments. I never jump on you directly, but if you are insulted when I criticise Adomaitis or Maciulis, I can't help here. I produce arguments for the critique, unless your implicit hits, very often even more offensive than my explicit argumentations.

MrRager, generally yes, Lekavicius could stop Pangos earlier, maybe even he should had done that at the mid court line, but the situation wasn't that obvious. Sabonis was running back to D almost in the same line with Maciulis, so Lekavicius didn't read it as the direct transition treat. Later guys picked up wrong positions to stop the fast brake and Lekavicius got aware of that and tried to foul Pangos, but failed. It's funny because Maciulis was basically left one on one with Cojo, he was protecting the paint like it should be, he wasn't left alone with two or three players, he screwed up guarding Cojo one on one and took off. I don't guys how trying to justify that. Even the same Maciulis and Sabonis had a chance to go for an early foul if they thought that was needed, but they didn't. If that was not a par exellance scapegoat hunting action by Maciulis for his own flaw and frustration for his 5th foul, than I can't argue here. I see this situation exactly this way.

This summer Maciulis is specially aggressive. He was getting nuts in exhibition games as well. It's not the first time he goes on Lekavicius even during some sets, cursing and so on. I never seen so many take offs by Maciulis, he really taking that veteran role for real. I'm not sure we really need that. I have my doubt that we need such Maciulis presence in OG 2020, even in last game, he made at least 4 stupid fouls and took off brutally on a teammate. If that's the contribution you're are waiting from Jonas, it's up to you, I'm not. Case closed, I'm not going to write about him here anymore.

CoachZ
09-04-2019, 10:18 AM
My only problem with Maciulis is that he should've been suspended for at least a year for hitting Caspi in the head that time. He is by far one of the dirtiest players around and that is fine, it's a sport you need brutes as well. I just feel that he was never punished adequately for his antics in the past so he has grown bolder over the years in his behavior.

MrRager
09-04-2019, 11:26 AM
MrRager, generally yes, Lekavicius could stop Pangos earlier, maybe even he should had done that at the mid court line, but the situation wasn't that obvious. Sabonis was running back to D almost in the same line with Maciulis, so Lekavicius didn't read it as the direct transition treat. Later guys picked up wrong positions to stop the fast brake and Lekavicius got aware of that and tried to foul Pangos, but failed. It's funny because Maciulis was basically left one on one with Cojo, he was protecting the paint like it should be, he wasn't left alone with two or three players, he screwed up guarding Cojo one on one and took off. I don't guys how trying to justify that. Even the same Maciulis and Sabonis had a chance to go for an early foul if they thought that was needed, but they didn't. If that was not a par exellance scapegoat hunting action by Maciulis for his own flaw and frustration for his 5th foul, than I can't argue here. I see this situation exactly this way.


You clearly need to watch it again. Maciulis was already in the paint (in front of Birch), while Sabonis was at the 3pt line. At the same time, Lekavicius was getting back in parallel with Joseph. He then decided to step in front ant try to stop Pangos, but that was dumb, as Pangos was too far away, he managed to pass it to Joseph, who at that time was already cutting to the basket. Maciulis had no choice but to let Joseph score easy layup or try to stop him, leaving Birch alone, because Sabonis was still behind. Lekavicius had no chance to foul Pangos, unless he was stupid enough to let Lukas do it. Instead Lukas shoud've stayed with Joseph.
So you're talking about a situation without actually taking time to take a look and investigate.

https://i.ibb.co/y51F47X/maciulis.jpg

Ashtrusis_dantis
09-04-2019, 11:55 AM
Jesus fk'n Christ are we still talking about that unimportant episode? Some people are crybabies and need some safe space. Sportsmen are not.
I watched that episode too - Lekavicius made a stupid mistake and Maciulis is a guy who cements our defense, so he had to give his last foul.

Straight forward
09-04-2019, 12:12 PM
You clearly need to watch it again. Maciulis was already in the paint (in front of Birch), while Sabonis was at the 3pt line. At the same time, Lekavicius was getting back in parallel with Joseph. He then decided to step in front ant try to stop Pangos, but that was dumb, as Pangos was too far away, he managed to pass it to Joseph, who at that time was already cutting to the basket. Maciulis had no choice but to let Joseph score easy layup or try to stop him, leaving Birch alone, because Sabonis was still behind. Lekavicius had no chance to foul Pangos, unless he was stupid enough to let Lukas do it. Instead Lukas shoud've stayed with Joseph.
So you're talking about a situation without actually taking time to take a look and investigate.

https://i.ibb.co/y51F47X/maciulis.jpg

Man you can interpret that situation in various ways. Only Adomaitis could tell us how he wanted the team to guard in that situation. Lekavicius was early with Cojo (no lazy stuff in his part) and then he tried to meet Pangos (the ball handler) as no-one else did (actually Grigonis after attacking the rim, didn't do a good job getting back, JV was late as always, Sabonis had to be checking Birch, but even he was late), trying to foul him. No-one was meeting Pangos, a ball handler in the perimeter so Lekavicius tried to do that to foul early. And he actually got to Pangos and grabbed him, but refs didn't buy that. Do you disagree that the ball handler, specially Pangos who can knock down a three in transition is the most dangerous player? Lekavicius made a right decision. Maybe Maciulis thought he could meat Pangos with the ball, but he was also checking Birch in the paint. So to me, Lekavicius made right decision, but only coaching staff could objectively say who screwed up, they project the defence. In that situation Maciulis had to blame Sabonis, JV and Grigonis, but not freakin' Lekavicius who actually tried to guard two players in the same time and worked his ass off. Even if Lekavicius screw with rotation from Cojo to Pangos, why Maciulis didn't took off on Sabonis who couldn't check Birch for real so Maciulis wouldn't have to stand between 2 players at to go higher to meet Pangos. In anyways, Maciulis reaction was stupid, he spilled his frustration to the most inferior guy on the court, who actually gave the biggest effort from all Maciulis teammates. And even if he had went on anyone, it's not the way to do that.

Straight forward
09-04-2019, 12:19 PM
so he had to give his last foul.

He had to? He made a stupid foul trying to avoid Cojo, but he couldn't and received the worst personal foul that BB player can get, that is sissy foul in transition which leads to 2+1. Maciulis knew it and he got absolutely mad because of that and because of 5th foul and maybe because he thought Lekavicius screwed. Stop making him infallible hero out of him. "He had to give his last foul" :D We would go down against Senegal if our players would have to give such fouls in the particular situations.

Anyway, I'm done with this situation.

LuDux
09-04-2019, 03:51 PM
ludux, if you have any self-respect just say it openly instead of pushing here pathetic and ecstatic quotes. If you want to go with direct insults, don't shy away, don't sneak around like hyena with your toll like vague hints and allusions. Avoid throwing names at me because I will be forced to fire back as in the case with astrusis dantis. Don't act like I stamped your arrrss in previous conversations so you're trying to attack me from my back now, or sneaking from the corners. I have no problem arguing and confronting different opinion, also being convinced to change my mind if I get new convincing arguments. I never jump on you directly, but if you are insulted when I criticise Adomaitis or Maciulis, I can't help here. I produce arguments for the critique, unless your implicit hits, very often even more offensive than my explicit argumentations. How did you know it was about you, Mr Fawlty?

Straight forward
09-04-2019, 10:01 PM
Different tactics by Lithuania and Australia. Aussies literally played only few exhibition games, Lithuanian got 9 or so. Aussies chilling in free days, Lithuania utilizing every chance to practice. Australia is a veteran team so maybe it's a good idea just to keep their key players fresh and to allow the improvise. Lithuania however will work on every detail I guess and will play strictly to a plan. Hopefully we will be as hungry and as we were specially in the first game. I kinda lacked a bit of hunger at offensive end against Canada. We'll see if this tactics works, if we will collapse again physically during the tournament, it will be a clear sign we overdo before the tournaments and even during tournaments with the workouts. Spain always comes to my mind. They always also have only few exhibition games and they limping in the group stage, but goes hardcore in the knock out stage. Like always, even this year with this thin Spain this might be a case again. Greece is also a bit of sneaky team. Last year they struggled in the group, but took down Lithuania. I hope Lithuania will be able to maintain that focus and hunger, but it will be difficult. The 4final will be the 6th game in a short period. Adomaitis better use that broad rotation, it's basically impossible to stay on the same intensity and focus for 8 official games in two weeks.

PS: We didn't defeat Aussies for 13 years now. It would be about time.

Mindozas
09-05-2019, 06:08 AM
Different tactics by Lithuania and Australia. Aussies literally played only few exhibition games, Lithuanian got 9 or so. Aussies chilling in free days, Lithuania utilizing every chance to practice. Australia is a veteran team so maybe it's a good idea just to keep their key players fresh and to allow the improvise. Lithuania however will work on every detail I guess and will play strictly to a plan. Hopefully we will be as hungry and as we were specially in the first game. I kinda lacked a bit of hunger at offensive end against Canada. We'll see if this tactics works, if we will collapse again physically during the tournament, it will be a clear sign we overdo before the tournaments and even during tournaments with the workouts. Spain always comes to my mind. They always also have only few exhibition games and they limping in the group stage, but goes hardcore in the knock out stage. Like always, even this year with this thin Spain this might be a case again. Greece is also a bit of sneaky team. Last year they struggled in the group, but took down Lithuania. I hope Lithuania will be able to maintain that focus and hunger, but it will be difficult. The 4final will be the 6th game in a short period. Adomaitis better use that broad rotation, it's basically impossible to stay on the same intensity and focus for 8 official games in two weeks.

So you wanted us to come to WC, against supposed to be group of death in a manner that Spain did? They could allow themselves such thing, we couldn't. Draw fcked us hard and it might hurt our chances in later stages. We needed to be ready since group stage. Good for us that Canadian "dream team" fell apart, good that Senegal couldn't get their top players. And good that we are in good shape and didn't have problems passing this group. My personal minimal goal for our NT is at least achieved, we are in OQT. Now we must aim for more and for that must beat Australia.
Our players are practicing during free days not because they are forced to, but because they want to, they feel that they need it and goes to a gym. Some shoot around never was harmful, it might only help. It's kinda strange that Aussies are resting and not even taking ball into their hands (if that's true of course).

Shawshank
09-05-2019, 07:36 AM
If Lithuania team will come and be prepared to wrestle australians and hold their ground like men can .Our 10-11 men depth and 40min intensity should play important role againts 30+ old australian NBA players.

But we have to be mentally prepared to take the punch psysical australians gonna gave us and gave some of that contact back to them.

This game will show how good both of these teams are in 2019.

MrRager
09-05-2019, 08:07 AM
So far Australia has played with 9 men rotation, while Lithuania has successfully utilized all 12 on their roster. Mills, Ingles, Delli have been playing 30+ minutes per match, while only 4 players played more than 20min per game for Lithuania (Kalnietis played the most on average - 23 minutes). So it's only natural, that Lithuania can allow themselves to train more than Australia. If Australia trained as much as Lithuania, they would be dead by the time they played France in the 2nd round.
As for today's game - I feel like the key to this game is Ingles. If Liths can contain him (Ule and Maciulis will have to do a tremendous job), then half of the job is done.

iskoch
09-05-2019, 08:23 AM
So far Australia has played with 9 men rotation, while Lithuania has successfully utilized all 12 on their roster. Mills, Ingles, Delli have been playing 30+ minutes per match, while only 4 players played more than 20min per game for Lithuania (Kalnietis played the most on average - 23 minutes). So it's only natural, that Lithuania can allow themselves to train more than Australia. If Australia trained as much as Lithuania, they would be dead by the time they played France in the 2nd round.
As for today's game - I feel like the key to this game is Ingles. If Liths can contain him (Ule and Maciulis will have to do a tremendous job), then half of the job is done.

Mills, dellavedova, ingles against kalnietis, lekavicius, seibutis?
Huge difference i think...
I support australia in this tournament.
Hopefully they will win.