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Levenspiel
09-18-2018, 12:14 PM
We have some young talents (Berkan Durmaz, Muhsin Yasar, Muhaymin Mustafa, Yigit Arslan (Tofas), Omercan Ilyasoglu (Efes), Ridvan Oncel, Berke Atar, Tolga Gecim, Sehmuz Hazer, Eray Akyuz (Banvit)) and we hope they improve this year.
have you seen Ilyasoglu in preseason games? if Ataman does not Ataman things, this kid is looking great!

as for the NT, it's kinda sad to have such a limited pool of decent players. Lots of "promising talents", but they'll all be wasted if they stay in TBL. Hope they can run away.

Efesdxb
09-18-2018, 12:31 PM
You forget Vidmar and Zagorac.

Oh yes, you are right. I missed them.


have you seen Ilyasoglu in preseason games? if Ataman does not Ataman things, this kid is looking great!

as for the NT, it's kinda sad to have such a limited pool of decent players. Lots of "promising talents", but they'll all be wasted if they stay in TBL. Hope they can run away.

I watched him on pre season games as well as U18 European Championship. He has a leader mentality, if he improves his shot he will definitely be a great player in Europe. He is slow for a NBA Guard.
If I was Ataman, Omercan will be my back up PG on TBL. He won't probably get playing time on EL but he could play 15-20 mins on TBL easily.

Hepcat
09-18-2018, 01:46 PM
holy hell, croats with all their NBAers are comfortably sitting at the bottom of their group lmao:eek: I guess FIBA is still staying true to their roots and favoring team game more than individual prowess, which is always a refreshing thing to see

Well the Poles certainly weren't intimidated by all the big-name NBA players they were facing yesterday!

:)

slice me nice
09-18-2018, 07:09 PM
I watched him on pre season games as well as U18 European Championship. He has a leader mentality, if he improves his shot he will definitely be a great player in Europe. He is slow for a NBA Guard.
If I was Ataman, Omercan will be my back up PG on TBL. He won't probably get playing time on EL but he could play 15-20 mins on TBL easily.

Ilyasoglu is my personal favorite from that generation of players and has been pleasing his followers with outstanding performances during pre season games. I like how he tries to make his teammates continuously better instead forcing for his own buckets by being an ultimate distributor with great timing and vision, he is a quite shifty player who gets into the paint when he sees an opportunity. That's a good sense for a 17 years old player. I don't remember any Turkish PG at this age who maintains his composure while running PnRs. He will be a good high IQ Euro guard unless he gives himself airs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AR01lZRvGA

You have probably seen this before, but damn, look at his vision one more time.

Italian Pride
11-20-2018, 12:30 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsXGy73W0AAeTT4.jpg

markkanen
11-26-2018, 12:36 AM
List for games against Russia (home, crucial game) and Bosnia (away):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dsmcn9jXgAAo5cP.jpg:large

Italian Pride
11-27-2018, 11:40 AM
Out Cinciarini eand Flaccadori for Italy


Candi and Moraschini have replaced them

BiHBasket
11-27-2018, 09:40 PM
Because we lost all chances for the World Cup, in the rest of the games our new national team coach Vedran Bosnic will try some new and some young players, and give more room to bench players.

BiH 12 man team for the match in Bulgaria:

PG Darko Talic (98', 6'2'') Igokea
PG Adi Zahiragic (95', 6'2'') Spars
PG Sani Campara (99', 6'1'') Andorra
SG Almir Hasandić (90', 6'3'') Sloboda
SG Edin Atic (97', 6'7'') Mega
SG Nedim Buza (95', 6'8'') Oostende
SF Adin Vrabac (94', 6'8''), Spars
SF Ibrahim Durmo (97', 6'8'') Spars
SF Haris Delalic (94', 6'7'') Leuven
PF Emir Sulejmanovic (95', 6'9'') Breogan
C Miralem Halilovic (91', 6'10'') Orleans
C Ismet Sejfic (93', 6'10'') Sencur

Players left out but maybe some of them will play in the second game vs Finland:

SF Ivan Milicevic (95', 6'8'') Zrinjski
C Kenan Kamenjas (00', 6'9'') Spars
C Obrad Tomic (93', 6'10'') Rogaska


Maybe Aleksandar Lazic from Olimpija Ljubljana will join at one point:confused:(his team asked him to stay)

Dtown
11-29-2018, 06:48 PM
Slovenia goes down to Ukraine to 82-54 and it looks like they'll be officially eliminated from the World Cup Qualifying. Definitely suffered the most from not having a full roster.

EverGreen
11-29-2018, 07:46 PM
Big congrats to Fiba and now we will not see either Goran Dragic or Luka Doncic at the WC. Is thing really best decision for the sport and the fans?

Idiots.

OffTheWallJamal
11-29-2018, 07:58 PM
Big congrats to Fiba and now we will not see either Goran Dragic or Luka Doncic at the WC. Is thing really best decision for the sport and the fans?

Idiots.

I thought Goran retired from NT after European championship?

But I agree this is so awful from FIBA, Latvia and Slovenia will not make it in the WC because of the rules...

Latvian NT are playing without their 6 Euroleague players...

Kinda sad that their potentially prime years of Latvian basketball will likely miss the big tournaments because of the FIBA and will not even have a chance to qualify for 2020 Olympics.

Screw you FIBA

Dtown
11-29-2018, 08:10 PM
Big congrats to Fiba and now we will not see either Goran Dragic or Luka Doncic at the WC. Is thing really best decision for the sport and the fans?

Idiots.

One thing I noticed, while Slovenia is definitely out for the WC, there may be a backdoor left open for them for the Olympics.

According to FIBA. The Olympic Qualifying tournament will be made up of the next 16 best teams at the World Cup that don't automatically qualify for the Olympics, plus 2 teams from each region. Longshot but I could see Slovenia getting a regional spot.

Tevfik1907
11-29-2018, 08:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYuYaBuEy7U

okanial
11-29-2018, 08:59 PM
I thought Goran retired from NT after European championship?

But I agree this is so awful from FIBA, Latvia and Slovenia will not make it in the WC because of the rules...

Latvian NT are playing without their 6 Euroleague players...

Kinda sad that their potentially prime years of Latvian basketball will likely miss the big tournaments because of the FIBA and will not even have a chance to qualify for 2020 Olympics.

Screw you FIBA

I agree system is quite flawed but Slovenia and Latvia are not the only team missing players. blaming it on that doesnt make much sense

OffTheWallJamal
11-29-2018, 09:23 PM
I agree system is quite flawed but Slovenia and Latvia are not the only team missing players. blaming it on that doesnt make much sense

Oh yeah those other big country teams who can give their B or even C team and still qualify easily?

It's not the case for Latvia and Slovenia both of them has players who are making their debut thanks to this stupid system... and the funny thing is those players would not even be close to sniff the NT.

Latvia had to call up to this window a former NT player who now it looks like just plays for fun in Latvian Basketball League and can see him after every game smoke a pair of cigarettes outside.... because Latvia has no players to call up.

12 players who are missing in this window for Latvia because of injuries or FIBA... it's literally full team, counting from this window only 2-3 players would have a chance to make it with the full roster, it's a big talent gap for small countries like Slovenia and Latvia.

And WC might miss a big box office chance because of this.

No disrespect to Montenegro, but do American or even European fans would want to watch Montenegro or Slovenia and Doncic or Latvia with healthy Porzingis? The answer obviously would be Slovenia/Latvia not Montenegro, because their biggest stars would get a big ratings for them.

okanial
11-29-2018, 09:35 PM
Oh yeah those other big country teams who can give their B or even C team and still qualify easily?

It's not the case for Latvia and Slovenia both of them has players who are making their debut thanks to this stupid system... and the funny thing is those players would not even be close to sniff the NT.

Latvia had to call up to this window a former NT player who now it looks like just plays for fun in Latvian Basketball League and can see him after every game smoke a pair of cigarettes outside.... because Latvia has no players to call up.

12 players who are missing in this window for Latvia because of injuries or FIBA... it's literally full team, counting from this window only 2-3 players would have a chance to make it with the full roster, it's a big talent gap for small countries like Slovenia and Latvia.

And WC might miss a big box office chance because of this.

No disrespect to Montenegro, but do American or even European fans would want to watch Montenegro or Slovenia and Doncic or Latvia with healthy Porzingis? The answer obviously would be Slovenia/Latvia not Montenegro, because their biggest stars would get a big ratings for them.

Right now it seems like Turkey is qualifying without our A, B or C. Germany, Spain, Greece, France, Lithuania all doing fine without their top players as well. Croatia is the other country that suffers a lot but at least they are fighting and their players actuallly came when they can instead of Slovenian players who didnt even show up during summer

OffTheWallJamal
11-29-2018, 09:51 PM
Right now it seems like Turkey is qualifying without our A, B or C. Germany, Spain, Greece, France, Lithuania all doing fine without their top players as well. Croatia is the other country that suffers a lot but at least they are fighting and their players actuallly came when they can instead of Slovenian players who didnt even show up during summer

Oh yeah and why are they doing fine? It has nothing to do with because they have big player resources? And the talent gap between the first team and second team is not that big for example like it is for Latvia, Slovenia.

They are small countries, they don't have that much resources as those other basketball nations.

The game suffers, and it's a fact.

Picek
11-30-2018, 04:40 AM
No disrespect to Montenegro, but do American or even European fans would want to watch Montenegro or Slovenia and Doncic or Latvia with healthy Porzingis? The answer obviously would be Slovenia/Latvia not Montenegro, because their biggest stars would get a big ratings for them.why would it be a problem of watching Montenegro with Vucevic instead of Slovenia with Vidmar?
Doncic missed all windows so far, even the ones he could have actually played when Slovenia still had a shot.
why should we feel sorry for him and his team then if even he didn't bother to show up when he actually could have?
Slovenia lost to Belarus in a game they shouldn't have lost, when they didn't know the rules.
American fans (speaking about USA) in majority don't give a fuck about WC anyway.
when it comes to international game it's only OG for them.
I will watch even if my team won't be there. and I'm not the only one.

Holland football team missed the WC this year and EC last year. Italy missed the WC this year which had a huge negative impact on their entire economy and not just the fans of the game etc.
they missed it because of their own issues and not because of the schedule, yes. but they still missed it.
fans still watched the championship.

EverGreen
11-30-2018, 07:17 AM
Oh yeah and why are they doing fine? It has nothing to do with because they have big player resources? And the talent gap between the first team and second team is not that big for example like it is for Latvia, Slovenia.

They are small countries, they don't have that much resources as those other basketball nations.

The game suffers, and it's a fact.

You are on the point, my friend.

Some countries, like the ones you mentioned dont have the pool talent to qualify with their B and C teams. Latvia, Slovenia both have small populations and only 7-8 quality players. With the players missing they can challenge for a top 8 position, without them they can't even pass the qualifying round.

FIBA needs to have a long hard look at this very flawed system.

okanial
11-30-2018, 09:25 AM
why would it be a problem of watching Montenegro with Vucevic instead of Slovenia with Vidmar?
Doncic missed all windows so far, even the ones he could have actually played when Slovenia still had a shot.
why should we feel sorry for him and his team then if even he didn't bother to show up when he actually could have?
Slovenia lost to Belarus in a game they shouldn't have lost, when they didn't know the rules.
American fans (speaking about USA) in majority don't give a fuck about WC anyway.
when it comes to international game it's only OG for them.
I will watch even if my team won't be there. and I'm not the only one.

Holland football team missed the WC this year and EC last year. Italy missed the WC this year which had a huge negative impact on their entire economy and not just the fans of the game etc.
they missed it because of their own issues and not because of the schedule, yes. but they still missed it.
fans still watched the championship.

You are completely right. If I will feel bad for a country it would be Croatia. Not Slovenia or Latvia.Their players didnt even come when they can to alter the situation.

Obina
11-30-2018, 11:02 AM
Bigger problem than these FIBA windows are naturalized players IMO.

I watched Latvia vs Mne and Needham (best player near Dubljevic) is probably reason because Mne will go to China and Latvia not. Latvia should pay Cory Higging for example and go to WC but what's the point of this?

okanial
11-30-2018, 12:13 PM
Bigger problem than these FIBA windows are naturalized players IMO.

I watched Latvia vs Mne and Needham (best player near Dubljevic) is probably reason because Mne will go to China and Latvia not. Latvia should pay Cory Higging for example and go to WC but what's the point of this?

This is correct. Sunday Wilbekin will Come and probably take the spot of Buğrahan Who was a great player Last night. I wish we could just use our own youngsters Who play pretty good so far

Levenspiel
11-30-2018, 04:28 PM
Right now it seems like Turkey is qualifying without our A, B or C. Germany, Spain, Greece, France, Lithuania all doing fine without their top players as well. Croatia is the other country that suffers a lot but at least they are fighting and their players actuallly came when they can instead of Slovenian players who didnt even show up during summer
Do you mean we're qualifying without our A, B, C players, or teams? Because this is like our B-team, we cannot replace them entirely when the WC comes.

okanial
11-30-2018, 05:47 PM
ABC players. Which are Cedi, Ersan and Furkan

markkanen
11-30-2018, 07:49 PM
Dettmann is fucking clown. Shame on him!!! And I hope that FIBA with stupid windows and their awful and shameful referees will burn in hell soon.

In near future nobody would care about your stupid and meaningless competitions, I mean national team with so many dedicated fans get robbed and nobody cares.

FIBA WC 2019 without Porzingis, Markkanen, Doncic, what a competition!

raph
12-01-2018, 12:10 PM
Dettmann is fucking clown. Shame on him!!! And I hope that FIBA with stupid windows and their awful and shameful referees will burn in hell soon.

In near future nobody would care about your stupid and meaningless competitions, I mean national team with so many dedicated fans get robbed and nobody cares.

FIBA WC 2019 without Porzingis, Markkanen, Doncic, what a competition!

There is absolutely NO reasons to do everything to help small nations to qualify because their stars 'can't' play (or better, dont want to) during qualifiers.
This is not the nba, we are talking about a real competition here. And by principle, we want to see the best teams, not the team of x or y supposed superstar.

Before crying about who will miss the WC, check who will be there. I know it's internet and everyone has the right to complain about everything, but jeez, we are talking about european qualifiers and from Italy, to germany, including Serbia or France, ALL big teams have missed some big time competitions in the recent past because they could not qualify.
No one is gonna cry when it's small countries's time just because a couple of nba fans want to see their superstar score empty stats while not caring at all about how competitive their team can be (caricaturing a bit, but the spirit is there).

Straight forward
12-01-2018, 12:30 PM
There is absolutely NO reasons to do everything to help small nations to qualify because their stars 'can't' play (or better, dont want to) during qualifiers.
This is not the nba, we are talking about a real competition here. And by principle, we want to see the best teams, not the team of x or y supposed superstar.

Before crying about who will miss the WC, check who will be there. I know it's internet and everyone has the right to complain about everything, but jeez, we are talking about european qualifiers and from Italy, to germany, including Serbia or France, ALL big teams have missed some big time competitions in the recent past because they could not qualify.
No one is gonna cry when it's small countries's time just because a couple of nba fans want to see their superstar score empty stats while not caring at all about how competitive their team can be (caricaturing a bit, but the spirit is there).

I second this. Lithuania qualified with B team and grabbed most of it. If you don't have a B team it's your own BB school issues, not even FIBA qualification issues. So Slovenia with Dragic and Doncic goes all the way and without them completely collapses? Hello...That divides strong BB schools from lucky shots...

Efesdxb
12-01-2018, 02:31 PM
Imo it is very easy to solve this problem.
1st 6 match window can be played late June early July, 2nd 6 match window early September such as (taking 2018 calendar),
game 1: wed-thu (27-28 june) // (5-6 sept)
game 2: sat-sun (30 june-1 july) // (8-9 sept)
game 3: tue-wed (3-4 july) // (11-12 sept)
game 4: fri-sat (6-7 july) // (14-15 sept)
game 5: mon-tue (9-10 july) // (17-18 sept)
game 6: thu-fri (12-13 july) // (20-21 sept)

or alternatively divide 4 games windows, get them played 1st 4 match window late june, early july, 2nd 4 match window in september, 3rd 4 match window in june period before world cup...

Don't know if this is so difficult to arrange.
Then all players will be available...

Miškinis
12-01-2018, 05:52 PM
I second this. Lithuania qualified with B team and grabbed most of it. If you don't have a B team it's your own BB school issues, not even FIBA qualification issues. So Slovenia with Dragic and Doncic goes all the way and without them completely collapses? Hello...That divides strong BB schools from lucky shots...

It's not about who has the strongest basketball schools. It's about who has the strongest teams. The current system simply does not allow to determine who is who. It's a garbage competition with the dream by FIBA to earn money.

markkanen
12-01-2018, 11:44 PM
Guys, guys, hold on. Do you really think it's fair when Olympiacos don't let Timma and Strelnieks to play, and Buducnost let Ivanovic, Sehovic, Popovic and Barovic to play against Latvia? Or what about Randolph who didn't get permission from Real to play, but Guler did? Or when Vorontsevic and Kulagin can play vs Finland, but Koponen can't.

And what you think about this situation - WC 2019 without european champions?

Straight forward
12-02-2018, 11:27 AM
Guys, guys, hold on. Do you really think it's fair when Olympiacos don't let Timma and Strelnieks to play, and Buducnost let Ivanovic, Sehovic, Popovic and Barovic to play against Latvia? Or what about Randolph who didn't get permission from Real to play, but Guler did? Or when Vorontsevic and Kulagin can play vs Finland, but Koponen can't.

And what you think about this situation - WC 2019 without european champions?

This system sucks, no question, but what about Slovenian stars showing up at least in the summer windows? One doesn't even want to play for NT anymore (Dragic), other pre-occupied with NBA career (Doncic). Third star not even sure he's Slovenian and doesn't give damn. So so much of the champs. Lithuania's, Croatia's stars showed up then they could and some others NTs. Conditions sucks, but it's all equal for every damn NT. If you're not in WC, blame yourself.

Jon_Koncak
12-02-2018, 01:49 PM
Guys, guys, hold on. Do you really think it's fair when Olympiacos don't let Timma and Strelnieks to play, and Buducnost let Ivanovic, Sehovic, Popovic and Barovic to play against Latvia? Or what about Randolph who didn't get permission from Real to play, but Guler did? Or when Vorontsevic and Kulagin can play vs Finland, but Koponen can't.

And what you think about this situation - WC 2019 without european champions?

Send your complaints here :

Quatre Camins, 9-13

08022 Barcelona, Spain

Telephone: +34-933-278-427

Fax: +34-933-278-424

[email protected]

Killer Bob
12-02-2018, 06:11 PM
Funny read. That’s why Fiba basketball is light years behind Nba or football. Dallas and Nba are making star from Doncic, New York made a star from KP. On the other hand Fiba did everything possible for them not to play in WC and Olympics, just because they wanted total war against Euroleague. People are nostalgic for past times, when everyone were amateurs and played for peanuts but are forgetting the world is not like that anymore. If you want to have great competition, you have to generate money and Fiba basketball is not generating anything.

BiHBasket
12-02-2018, 07:35 PM
Koponen joined for the game against us, I see him in some photos from Finnish training in Zenica. He wasn't in the team against Russia because of duties in the Euroleague.

https://sportsport.ba/kosarka/finska-trenirala-u-areni-srdacan-pozdrav-dettmanna-i-bosnica/298724

Obina
12-02-2018, 09:38 PM
Poland is so close to China.

I watched Montenegro vs Turkey. Big win, I must say Turkey is so poor team without NBA players. Last game between Mne and Latvia will probably decide third passenger in this group. Latvia has no big chances with this roster, but if Oly and Milano let Bertans, Timma, Strelnieks, it can be tough game.

OffTheWallJamal
12-02-2018, 10:27 PM
Poland is so close to China.

I watched Montenegro vs Turkey. Big win, I must say Turkey is so poor team without NBA players. Last game between Mne and Latvia will probably decide third passenger in this group. Latvia has no big chances with this roster, but if Oly and Milano let Bertans, Timma, Strelnieks, it can be tough game.

25th February will be the game, everyone I think will have the best roster possible, because it's 3 days after Euroleague round and 3 days before next Euroleague round, so Euroleague players will ask to be free to play the game, because obviously for LAT and MNE it's a once in a lifetime opportunity for at least now to all the veteran players.

Efesdxb
12-03-2018, 07:25 AM
Poland is so close to China.

I watched Montenegro vs Turkey. Big win, I must say Turkey is so poor team without NBA players. Last game between Mne and Latvia will probably decide third passenger in this group. Latvia has no big chances with this roster, but if Oly and Milano let Bertans, Timma, Strelnieks, it can be tough game.

I think this is the best Montenegro team except Vucevic. I watched Ognjen Carapic for the first time and I really liked him. Is he a good prospect?
Missing three crucial players for Turkey is important and at the same time players like Sinan Guler, Goksenin Koksal, Oguz Savas are washed up... Also players like Bugrahan Tuncer and Tolga Gecim were terrible yesterday. Normally they are better than this.
Just a note, Milano let Dairis Bertans to play yesterday against Slovenia.

Italian Pride
12-03-2018, 09:41 AM
I think this is the best Montenegro team except Vucevic. I watched Ognjen Carapic for the first time and I really liked him. Is he a good prospect?
Missing three crucial players for Turkey is important and at the same time players like Sinan Guler, Goksenin Koksal, Oguz Savas are washed up... Also players like Bugrahan Tuncer and Tolga Gecim were terrible yesterday. Normally they are better than this.
Just a note, Milano let Dairis Bertans to play yesterday against Slovenia.

What impression about Dino radoncic?

Aldo Todorovic they missed

Latvia must defeat spain,that if take in ribas,oriola,claver,diop and co won t be easy

Picek
12-03-2018, 11:44 AM
Funny read. That’s why Fiba basketball is light years behind Nba or football. Dallas and Nba are making star from Doncic, New York made a star from KP. On the other hand Fiba did everything possible for them not to play in WC and Olympics, just because they wanted total war against Euroleague. People are nostalgic for past times, when everyone were amateurs and played for peanuts but are forgetting the world is not like that anymore. If you want to have great competition, you have to generate money and Fiba basketball is not generating anything.according to you FIBA told Dončić don't play in june, don't play in september.
Dončić did everything possible for himself not to play in WC and Olympics.


btw. we are officialy out of WC and OG.
we missed two olympics in a row (2000. and 2004.) and olympics in 2012., we also missed three WC in a row (1998., 2002. and 2006.) so this shouldn't be a surprise that we will miss both WC and OG again.
unfortunate as it is for me as a fan.
this just shows the real and true level of our basketball, our media and fans (including me) are all living under the impression that we are worth something since we have 6 NBA players at the moment.
let's take a closer look of that.
we have Šarić and Bogdanović with regular playing time in their teams and we have 4 bench warmers in the likes of Hezonja, Zubac, Žižić and Bender. three of those four will probably return to Europe, if they are smart enough then they should do it already after this season or during the season. having 6 NBA players is quite deceiving in that segment as you would expect we are a force to be reckon with while infact 4 of them should swim back to Europe before they ruin their careers before they even started properly.
then we have 2 (two) euroleague players, well actually three but Radošević never played for senior NT while Simon and Tomić did.
In eurocup and fiba cl we have some but that is the real level our basketball is at the moment, eurocup level at it's best.
for God sake we only have one basketball club playing in european competitions for the second season in a row.
and ABA league is surely not helping our basketball either.
there is simply no money in our basketball.
and for the small amount of money present in our basketball we have huge number of bad decisions. for instance Cedevita as the best club in the country started the season with foreign coach and 8 foreign players. no vision whatsoever.
after Planinić and Ukić we haven't been able to produce an EL level PG, and won't even talk about NBA bench level PG as both Planinić and Ukić played in NBA.
without PG you can't play senior basketball.
you can play junior competitions without a PG and hide that but you can not do the same at senior level.
and this is where we are hurting the most.

of course with all of the above we have our federation which unfortunately did a bad job on selecting a NT coach. not once but twice.
with a proper coach even with all of the above mentioned we should have at least beat Romania at home in the first qualifying stage. won't disrespect Netherlands and say we should have beat them as well in an away game.
that's just a fact.
our basketball also depends a lot on particular interests of certain agencies.
so, this is our reality. hopefully we won't miss next EC as that would mean we really hit rock bottom.
all I want is a young and promising coach, for instance Slaven Rimac as one of our most promising young coached, to lead us in the future.

Italian Pride
12-03-2018, 12:19 PM
according to you FIBA told Dončić don't play in june, don't play in september.
Dončić did everything possible for himself not to play in WC and Olympics.


btw. we are officialy out of WC and OG.
we missed two olympics in a row (2000. and 2004.) and olympics in 2012., we also missed three WC in a row (1998., 2002. and 2006.) so this shouldn't be a surprise that we will miss both WC and OG again.
unfortunate as it is for me as a fan.
this just shows the real and true level of our basketball, our media and fans (including me) are all living under the impression that we are worth something since we have 6 NBA players at the moment.
let's take a closer look of that.
we have Šarić and Bogdanović with regular playing time in their teams and we have 4 bench warmers in the likes of Hezonja, Zubac, Žižić and Bender. three of those four will probably return to Europe, if they are smart enough then they should do it already after this season or during the season. having 6 NBA players is quite deceiving in that segment as you would expect we are a force to be reckon with while infact 4 of them should swim back to Europe before they ruin their careers before they even started properly.
then we have 2 (two) euroleague players, well actually three but Radošević never played for senior NT while Simon and Tomić did.
In eurocup and fiba cl we have some but that is the real level our basketball is at the moment, eurocup level at it's best.
for God sake we only have one basketball club playing in european competitions for the second season in a row.
and ABA league is surely not helping our basketball either.
there is simply no money in our basketball.
and for the small amount of money present in our basketball we have huge number of bad decisions. for instance Cedevita as the best club in the country started the season with foreign coach and 8 foreign players. no vision whatsoever.
after Planinić and Ukić we haven't been able to produce an EL level PG, and won't even talk about NBA bench level PG as both Planinić and Ukić played in NBA.
without PG you can't play senior basketball.
you can play junior competitions without a PG and hide that but you can not do the same at senior level.
and this is where we are hurting the most.

of course with all of the above we have our federation which unfortunately did a bad job on selecting a NT coach. not once but twice.
with a proper coach even with all of the above mentioned we should have at least beat Romania at home in the first qualifying stage. won't disrespect Netherlands and say we should have beat them as well in an away game.
that's just a fact.
so, this is our reality. hopefully we won't miss next EC as that would mean we really hit rock bottom.

not sure for OG,there will be WC for preolympic torunaments ;)

But why players like Slavica,Rudez and Arapovic were out in this window?in my opinion they are better than Peric and others

like PG,what about Marinelli?

Killer Bob
12-03-2018, 12:28 PM
according to you FIBA told Dončić don't play in june, don't play in september.
Dončić did everything possible for himself not to play in WC and Olympics.

Please be realistic. Luka played 20 months almost nonstop, he had in 2 seasons only 3 weeks of before preparation of Eurobasket. He played 94 matches in season 2017/2018 alone. His season ended in end of June. Mavericks traded up for him, giving 2019 first round pick away, excused him for playing summer league, that’s very rare for drafted players, and gave him 6 weeks of rest. After all that you expected that he would play for Slovenia and immediately after that start 82 games season in Nba? Going against his body and Dallas Mavericks? Man be serious. Nobody can survive tempo like that and especially not 19 years old kid. And his employer is Dallas not Fiba or Slovenia.

I don’t even care about war between Fiba and Euroleague. But some posters here are ridiculous. Like basketball players are robots. And then everyone is shocked, when we see so many injuries. I would like to see you, to play 3-4 days a week and having no rest after the season.

Dtown
12-03-2018, 01:53 PM
according to you FIBA told Dončić don't play in june, don't play in september.
Dončić did everything possible for himself not to play in WC and Olympics.


btw. we are officialy out of WC and OG.


As Italian Pride said the OG qualifying tournaments have room for wild card spots. Though knowing FIBA it will probably cost a lot of money.

okanial
12-03-2018, 11:26 PM
Please be realistic. Luka played 20 months almost nonstop, he had in 2 seasons only 3 weeks of before preparation of Eurobasket. He played 94 matches in season 2017/2018 alone. His season ended in end of June. Mavericks traded up for him, giving 2019 first round pick away, excused him for playing summer league, that’s very rare for drafted players, and gave him 6 weeks of rest. After all that you expected that he would play for Slovenia and immediately after that start 82 games season in Nba? Going against his body and Dallas Mavericks? Man be serious. Nobody can survive tempo like that and especially not 19 years old kid. And his employer is Dallas not Fiba or Slovenia.

I don’t even care about war between Fiba and Euroleague. But some posters here are ridiculous. Like basketball players are robots. And then everyone is shocked, when we see so many injuries. I would like to see you, to play 3-4 days a week and having no rest after the season.

Furkan Korkmaz and Cedi Osman both played in summer league and in qualifers. And they were both pretty good in both. So it is possible.

markkanen
12-04-2018, 12:08 AM
What a game in Zenica!!! Bosnia dominated in first three quarters, they have 28-11 lead, then 50-29, 63-43, and some 6-7 minutes to the end, it was 69-51 for home team. And they lose again, what a bunch of stupid decisions they made, they were worse than Finland in games against Russia and Bosnia at home.

Now, it is Russia at 6-4, Finland at 5-5, and already eliminated Bulgaria with 4 victories and 6 defeats. Now, for Finland, they have to defeat France at home OR to hope that Bulgaria will win against Russia. And, then, they must win in Moscow with 3 point difference.

I don't now why Georgia fight so much for victory against Israel, they are pretty much doomed.

Killer Bob
12-04-2018, 12:25 AM
Furkan Korkmaz and Cedi Osman both played in summer league and in qualifers. And they were both pretty good in both. So it is possible.

yes they had brutal 2017/2018 season, especially Furkan. ;) And Dallas would be thrilled, knowing that they just trade up their future first round pick for Luka, to let him play for Slovenia. They made huge bet on him and there were 0 chance to let him play.

okanial
12-04-2018, 12:09 PM
yes they had brutal 2017/2018 season, especially Furkan. ;) And Dallas would be thrilled, knowing that they just trade up their future first round pick for Luka, to let him play for Slovenia. They made huge bet on him and there were 0 chance to let him play.

Played or not Cedis season ended on June. He didnt bitch instead traveled from US to turkey and played in 2 days notice. Luka or dragic could have done the same. They choose not to

Straight forward
12-04-2018, 12:28 PM
It's not about who has the strongest basketball schools. It's about who has the strongest teams. The current system simply does not allow to determine who is who. It's a garbage competition with the dream by FIBA to earn money.

Let's not forget it's qualification. WC will determine best teams, now it's more about system. F.e. Lithuania could have both JV and Sabonis in september if that would had been the vital games, but we knew we can do it without them. This system sucks, but very rarely NTs are strongest in qualification. That wasn't the case in 00's, it's not the case now. Again, can you blame FIBA that Doncic and Dragic skipped qualification is summer? They badly needed them. Also, Croatia had both Saric and Bog, but still failed. Yes, BB school means hell of a lot. The fact that say Serbia and Lithuania can field A-B-C quality teams and Slovenia- Croatia- Latvia can't, says a lot. From there comes consistency and increased chances to win the medal. So Slovenia got a BB prodigy and randomly grabbed a good foreigner and happened to win a Eurobasket? Now I should knee and beg FIBA to make everything possible that those heroes would appear and to discredit the dirty job Lithuania constantly does f.e.? Nope, I'm proud our strong and deep BB school pays dividends. And you know we can blame only ourselves that we couldn't bring Domantas Sabonis to the roster of 2017 EB because with him we may had been on the podium, who knows.

Killer Bob
12-04-2018, 07:48 PM
Played or not Cedis season ended on June. He didnt bitch instead traveled from US to turkey and played in 2 days notice. Luka or dragic could have done the same. They choose not to

Cedi played 60 minutes from mid April to June. My guess is he was desperate to play for NT. Luka was dead tired after F4 and ACB playoffs and I suppose you didn’t read the part of Mavericks trading up for Luka, making him the most important player for Dallas? They would have never let him go. They invested too much in him.

I have no problem, Slovenia is out, Fiba will continue to do, what they’re doing for decades and basketball in Europe will continue to loose the battle against football and even against some other sports. Business like usual.

Killer Bob
12-04-2018, 07:59 PM
Let's not forget it's qualification. WC will determine best teams, now it's more about system. F.e. Lithuania could have both JV and Sabonis in september if that would had been the vital games, but we knew we can do it without them. This system sucks, but very rarely NTs are strongest in qualification. That wasn't the case in 00's, it's not the case now. Again, can you blame FIBA that Doncic and Dragic skipped qualification is summer? They badly needed them. Also, Croatia had both Saric and Bog, but still failed. Yes, BB school means hell of a lot. The fact that say Serbia and Lithuania can field A-B-C quality teams and Slovenia- Croatia- Latvia can't, says a lot. From there comes consistency and increased chances to win the medal. So Slovenia got a BB prodigy and randomly grabbed a good foreigner and happened to win a Eurobasket? Now I should knee and beg FIBA to make everything possible that those heroes would appear and to discredit the dirty job Lithuania constantly does f.e.? Nope, I'm proud our strong and deep BB school pays dividends. And you know we can blame only ourselves that we couldn't bring Domantas Sabonis to the roster of 2017 EB because with him we may had been on the podium, who knows.

Smaller is country more will suffer with every missing player. You can turn things around, but the fact is, that Nba and Euroleague players missed first part of qualification. And the groups weren’t exactly equal. Nonetheless I congratulate all who made it.

usagre
12-05-2018, 07:35 PM
The Fiba World Cup is naturally doomed to fail. How can an event be elevated or considered prestigious if the best players from the best country in the sport don’t care about it. The Olympic tournament will always be the premier tournament.
The best solution would be to get rid of it all together and just focus on Eurobasket as the second most important tournament. Olympic tournament every 4 years with Eurobaskets every two years is the way to go. You can even enlarge the Olympic qualifying tournament and hold it the summer before the Olympics. There’s really no tinkering or anything that can be done to enhance the world championships, and if you think there is you are fooling yourself.

Levenspiel
12-06-2018, 10:44 AM
The Fiba World Cup is naturally doomed to fail. How can an event be elevated or considered prestigious if the best players from the best country in the sport don’t care about it. The Olympic tournament will always be the premier tournament.
The best solution would be to get rid of it all together and just focus on Eurobasket as the second most important tournament. Olympic tournament every 4 years with Eurobaskets every two years is the way to go. You can even enlarge the Olympic qualifying tournament and hold it the summer before the Olympics. There’s really no tinkering or anything that can be done to enhance the world championships, and if you think there is you are fooling yourself.
you are definitely right, but FIBA's plan is to replace Olympics in prestige, as in football, with the FIBA world cup. They can only achieve that if Olympic committee sets similar limitations, and I think that's what FIBA scheming for.

markkanen
12-06-2018, 04:07 PM
you are definitely right, but FIBA's plan is to replace Olympics in prestige, as in football, with the FIBA world cup. They can only achieve that if Olympic committee sets similar limitations, and I think that's what FIBA scheming for.

I don't know what is in FIBA plans, but situation in football is certainly not the same as the situation in basketball. I mean, the very reason why the football olympic tournament is so meaningless is schedule in major football leagues. So, there is no room for players in august to participate in such competition.

Basketball is different. No tournaments, no competitions, no games in july, august, september ...

usagre
12-08-2018, 03:16 PM
I don't know what is in FIBA plans, but situation in football is certainly not the same as the situation in basketball. I mean, the very reason why the football olympic tournament is so meaningless is schedule in major football leagues. So, there is no room for players in august to participate in such competition.

Basketball is different. No tournaments, no competitions, no games in july, august, september ...

I would love to see this tournament be replaced by Ryder Cup style format every four years. The Olympic and Eurobasket tournaments would be the premier international tournaments. And a United States, Europe and you can even throw in a Rest of the world team could have a round robin playoff series. It would be very competitive and would definitely have a lot of juice. A united European team would be on par if not more talented than a B team type United States team.

AvaGraham
02-18-2019, 01:44 PM
This is how we latest urdu news end https://urdu.arynews.tv/ up with Slovenia, the defending European champion, home of the Dragics and Luka Doncic, out of the 2019 World Cup nine months before it even began.

Dtown
02-21-2019, 06:54 PM
Wild day

Finland wins and forces a do or die game with Russia on Sunday. If Russia wins they're in, and if Finland wins by 3 or more they're in.

Serbia friggin loses to Estonia, and will have to wait for results today or will have to play for their lives on Sunday.

edit: And now Israel beat Germany setting up a massive game against Serbia on Sunday.

markkanen
02-21-2019, 08:54 PM
Wild day

Finland wins and forces a do or die game with Russia on Sunday. If Russia wins they're in, and if Finland wins by 3 or more they're in.

Serbia friggin loses to Estonia, and will have to wait for results today or will have to play for their lives on Sunday.

edit: And now Israel beat Germany setting up a massive game against Serbia on Sunday.

Two words, one man - Jamar Wilson. :D We will see, Petteri is with team now and he will play against Russia in do or die game on Sunday.

Tevfik1907
02-22-2019, 12:09 AM
Czech RP
France
Germany
Turkey
Greece
Lithuania
Spain

Qualified

5 teams more (probably Italy, Russia, Serbia, Latvia and Poland) , and the latest European Champion Slovenia has no chance to be one of them. I hope FIBA is really proud of what they done. :D

Not only Slovenia, Croatia has almost no chance too if I am not mistaken.

Anyway, we will play a formality game with Slovenia today, it's really weird.

Mindozas
02-22-2019, 06:43 AM
Wild day

Finland wins and forces a do or die game with Russia on Sunday. If Russia wins they're in, and if Finland wins by 3 or more they're in.

Serbia friggin loses to Estonia, and will have to wait for results today or will have to play for their lives on Sunday.

edit: And now Israel beat Germany setting up a massive game against Serbia on Sunday.

I was expected Finland to win, they were favorites against this France, but how Serbia fcked up is just amazing. I couldn't believe it when a friend told me yesterday at pub, thought he is already done :) I mean against Estonia, latter not even bein' at best... Of course Serbia still are main contenders to advance, they can even lose vs Israel by 21pts as long as Georgia will beat Estonia at home, making it 3-way tie between Serbs, Israel and Georgia, where Serbia will have advantage thnx to 2 huge wins over Georgia. Anyway, you can't put yourself into such position what so ever

Shawshank
02-22-2019, 07:10 AM
Comon Latvia and Finland you just need one good away win and you are in for WC19.In one game such shooting teams are always dangerous and unpredictable.

markkanen
02-22-2019, 08:25 AM
Today is Jamar's birthday. Wish him best, and another great game on Sunday , and of course - another win. Although, without a proper center it will be very difficult task.

Straight forward
02-22-2019, 04:53 PM
Serbia friggin loses to Estonia, and will have to wait for results today or will have to play for their lives on Sunday.


Wow. Seriously? And Serbia had Teodosič. We are talking about arguably second best NT in the world after USA. Their B or C teams should play way better, specially when they badly needed it. On other hand, Estonia! Congrats.

As for Latvia, I would like to see them in WC because of guys like Bertans and Kurucs, but obviously Porzingis wouldn't play anyways after sitting out so long.

Tevfik1907
02-22-2019, 04:54 PM
Wow. Seriously? And Serbia had Teodosič. We are talking about arguably second best NT in the world after USA. .

Yeah.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb0e2okSk8k

Tevfik1907
02-22-2019, 06:54 PM
Buğrahan Tunçer played very well, I don't know what this kid is doing at Efes's bench, he has no chance to play there with Efes's wide guard rotation and he is wasting his time, he need to go to a team that he can play. Sinan's 5 assists, and Metecan's ribaunts were important too. We also had no Cedi, Furkan, Ersan and Wilbekin in this game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orxYO8Ckd0c

Dtown
02-22-2019, 06:57 PM
Early games starting to wrap.

Poland eliminates Croatia and might qualify today depending on Italy vs Hungary

Montenegro comes back from 19 down to eliminate Ukraine.

Latvia loses close to Spain.

Montenegro vs Latvia will be for the last place in the group. Montenegro just needs to win, Latvia needs to win by at least 9 to get in.

Edit: Italy demolishes Hungary and eliminates them. Italy (first since 2006) and Poland (first since 1967) both qualify.

Tevfik1907
02-22-2019, 11:16 PM
Even if Montenegro lose with -8 points at home against Latvia, they get the ticket. It's almost a miracle now.

Too bad for Croatia, they could actually do something in the tournament with their real roster, just like Slovenia could.

madmax
02-22-2019, 11:31 PM
Croatia have only themselves to blame for playing like crap even when they had their NBAers available - they were still playing the same individual iso basketball which just doesn't work in FIBA unless you have the roster of US Dream Team lol. Good riddance I say and let this be a lesson for them

Federoy
02-23-2019, 03:33 AM
Early games starting to wrap.

Poland eliminates Croatia and might qualify today depending on Italy vs Hungary

Montenegro comes back from 19 down to eliminate Ukraine.

Latvia loses close to Spain.

Montenegro vs Latvia will be for the last place in the group. Montenegro just needs to win, Latvia needs to win by at least 9 to get in.

Edit: Italy demolishes Hungary and eliminates them. Italy (first since 2006) and Poland (first since 1967) both qualify.

I'm pulling for Montenegro a bit. Should Serbia lose to Israel (not sure what point differential is needed for Israel to overtake Serbia if both are 6-6, along with Georgia should they win and create a three-way tie), Montenegro would be the only team representing the Balkans. Shocking collapse by Ukraine to even put Montenegro in a position to qualify. Russia-Finland should be a good battle on Sunday also.

Federoy
02-23-2019, 03:42 AM
Czech RP
France
Germany
Turkey
Greece
Lithuania
Spain

Qualified

5 teams more (probably Italy, Russia, Serbia, Latvia and Poland) , and the latest European Champion Slovenia has no chance to be one of them. I hope FIBA is really proud of what they done. :D

Not only Slovenia, Croatia has almost no chance too if I am not mistaken.

Anyway, we will play a formality game with Slovenia today, it's really weird.

We discussed this when FIBA first announced this format. This format has killed the FYR teams, and there's a real possibility that Serbia could also miss the World Cup should they stumble against Israel. Montenegro is in a good position, but they aren't out of the woods yet. Should be an interesting Sunday.

Shawshank
02-23-2019, 10:06 AM
Even if Montenegro lose with -8 points at home against Latvia, they get the ticket. It's almost a miracle now.

Too bad for Croatia, they could actually do something in the tournament with their real roster, just like Slovenia could.

Latvians euroleague players strelnieks,timma,bertans was watching game ending in arena versus Spain,they will try to help Latvia in do or die match versus Montenegro.Wouldnt call latvians chance only miracle ones,with those euroleague player they are capable way more than without them.Latvians usually dont have 2 bad shooting games like versus spain they did.Sure montenegro at home and having +8 is favourites,but its not like they have +22 you know..

i wouldnt call latvians with euroleague players chances winning +9 vs montenegro worse than lets say Finlands chances beat Russia in moscow +3

Dtown
02-23-2019, 02:00 PM
Should Serbia lose to Israel (not sure what point differential is needed for Israel to overtake Serbia if both are 6-6, along with Georgia should they win and create a three-way tie), Montenegro would be the only team representing the Balkans. Shocking collapse by Ukraine to even put Montenegro in a position to qualify. Russia-Finland should be a good battle on Sunday also.

In event of three way tie Serbia's almost a mathematical certainty. Israel would need to beat them by 22 (Serbia demolished Georgia in their games)

However if Georgia loses to Estonia, all Israel has to do is win to get in and knock out Serbia.

markkanen
02-23-2019, 03:13 PM
Go Latvia! With Strelnieks, Timma, Bertans, Peiners and Pasecniks it will be possible for them to reach WC. They are clearly better team than Montenegro, and they deserve to be in the World Cup.

Tevfik1907
02-23-2019, 05:55 PM
Latvians euroleague players strelnieks,timma,bertans was watching game ending in arena versus Spain,they will try to help Latvia in do or die match versus Montenegro.Wouldnt call latvians chance only miracle ones,with those euroleague player they are capable way more than without them.Latvians usually dont have 2 bad shooting games like versus spain they did.Sure montenegro at home and having +8 is favourites,but its not like they have +22 you know..

i wouldnt call latvians with euroleague players chances winning +9 vs montenegro worse than lets say Finlands chances beat Russia in moscow +3

Oh I didn't know that, then maybe they can do that. If only they had Porzingis though, that would seal the deal.

Mindozas
02-24-2019, 10:31 AM
Estonia traveled to Georgia with quite weakened roster, some players moved back to clubs, some stayed home. I think this way Georgia should win without too much problems and make things for Serbia much easier (they can lose by 21 and still qualify)

Tevfik1907
02-24-2019, 01:46 PM
Is there any difference between being in the first place in a group and being in the third place in a group?

Dtown
02-24-2019, 02:05 PM
Is there any difference between being in the first place in a group and being in the third place in a group?

supposedly it might effect seeding for the world cup draw, but I haven't seen any confirmation of that.

Congrats to Russia, was hard thought game much closer than the score suggested.

Mindozas
02-24-2019, 03:03 PM
Finland had the control of game in their hands few times, but let it go. They badly miss good PG, cold nerves to slow down the tempo, better decision making. Also defense in decisive moments was simply horrible, how can you leave open player some 3-4 times to shoot a 3... And that's in 4th qtr, when your destiny is decided. Sadly, there will be no Markkanen in World Cup :(

Dtown
02-24-2019, 04:56 PM
Serbia handles their business and beats Israel fairly easily. Probably a good thing it wasn't close as Estonia did wind up beating Georgia, meaning it was a legit do or die game.

markkanen
02-24-2019, 07:33 PM
Finland had the control of game in their hands few times, but let it go. They badly miss good PG, cold nerves to slow down the tempo, better decision making. Also defense in decisive moments was simply horrible, how can you leave open player some 3-4 times to shoot a 3... And that's in 4th qtr, when your destiny is decided. Sadly, there will be no Markkanen in World Cup :(

Well, if you have 28:10, then 50:40, then 62:49 and every person on Earth knows how is gonna end it, and you lose with 15 point difference in the end - you are not team for big moments. And coach Dettman is a joke, not coach. Also, you can't play basketball without proper C.

BiHBasket
02-24-2019, 10:37 PM
BiH - Bulgaria 87 : 67 in a meaningless game.

Edin Atic(97) droped 29 points, Aleksandar Lazic(96) dropped 19 points, Sani Campara(99) dropped 15 points, Amar Gegic(98) dropped 7 points and 3 assists and played great defence. It's a young team and with a add of Nurkic(94) and Musa(99) will still stay young.

We may never again have some player born in 80's in our roster, Kikanovic and Stipanovic retired from the national team and Gordic is in a ongoing dispute with a Federation. Even if Nihad Djedovic someday return to BiH national team, he is actually born in 1990. Some experienced American is most likely way to see someone born before 90's in a Bosnian kit.

Federoy
02-25-2019, 12:26 AM
Serbia handles their business and beats Israel fairly easily. Probably a good thing it wasn't close as Estonia did wind up beating Georgia, meaning it was a legit do or die game.

I can only imagine the belly aching that would've resulted had Serbia not qualified. FIBA dodged a bullet with them, but Croatia and Slovenia weren't so lucky. The proponents of this system will argue that both countries had the same obstacles as everyone else in the field, but it still sucks that two of the best basketball playing nations are being left out because impracticalities set-up by this rigid qualifying process. The question FIBA should be asking itself: do they want a World Cup with the most deserving teams or best teams? I believe tweaks are in order, and if that means expanding the tournament or adding an additional qualifying tournament, I'm all for that. I want to see the best of the best play.

ja.he
02-25-2019, 12:52 AM
I can only imagine the belly aching that would've resulted had Serbia not qualified. FIBA dodged a bullet with them, but Croatia and Slovenia weren't so lucky. The proponents of this system will argue that both countries had the same obstacles as everyone else in the field, but it still sucks that two of the best basketball playing nations are being left out because impracticalities set-up by this rigid qualifying process. The question FIBA should be asking itself: do they want a World Cup with the most deserving teams or best teams? I believe tweaks are in order, and if that means expanding the tournament or adding an additional qualifying tournament, I'm all for that. I want to see the best of the best play.

fiba will more like that some other countries will participate in international stage instead same old countries playing in each and every single world cup. also, they are also promoting the sport of basketball so the best way to promote it is to make it home and away format. well, the windows were well received all over the world just look at the gate attendance. another, it also took off the mask of teams that don't have a deep pool to compete in their respective zones. now, we know that croatia and slovenia do not have a deep pool of talents to stay competitive in europe outside of their best players.

it also proved to us that USA, spain, argentina, lithuania, serbia and australia are the true alphas in basketball because they can compete with rosters far from their best teams.

Mindozas
02-25-2019, 01:44 PM
All FIBA cares is how to fill their pockets with money. It all started to be visible with wild cards auction back in the days. Even corrupted FIFA didn't go that far with selling places to World Cup. Don't be fooled that they cares about the game itself. All this reconstruction of qualification system was thnx to FIBA's child "World Championship" losing it's prestige by a lot. It went down since 2002, with more and more players taking more rest and choosing Olympics as main goal. With interest dropping, that meant FIBA were losing money from sponsors, TV coverages too. They needed to do smth, so they decided to make World Champ as Olympic qualifier, get rid off prestigous pre-Olympic Eurobasket, FIBA Americas champ. To make it look more serious, they even renamed World Champ to World Cup, like in football. Fcking clowns. This way they destroyed it all. Teams are not supposed to have strong reserves, strong B team, they are not supposed to have deep pool of talents, they must have a chance to play with the best players and this way to decide who is the best. That's the idea of sports. It doesn't matter if it will be average joes + one superstar. Dirk carryin' Germany to the podium, to Olympics was such a joy to watch. And that's just one example. It's not only teams that are losing, we as a fans are losing too, with some top players stayin' out of contest

ja.he
02-25-2019, 02:02 PM
All FIBA cares is how to fill their pockets with money. It all started to be visible with wild cards auction back in the days. Even corrupted FIFA didn't go that far with selling places to World Cup. Don't be fooled that they cares about the game itself. All this reconstruction of qualification system was thnx to FIBA's child "World Championship" losing it's prestige by a lot. It went down since 2002, with more and more players taking more rest and choosing Olympics as main goal. With interest dropping, that meant FIBA were losing money from sponsors, TV coverages too. They needed to do smth, so they decided to make World Champ as Olympic qualifier, get rid off prestigous pre-Olympic Eurobasket, FIBA Americas champ. To make it look more serious, they even renamed World Champ to World Cup, like in football. Fcking clowns. This way they destroyed it all. Teams are not supposed to have strong reserves, strong B team, they are not supposed to have deep pool of talents, they must have a chance to play with the best players and this way to decide who is the best. That's the idea of sports. It doesn't matter if it will be average joes + one superstar. Dirk carryin' Germany to the podium, to Olympics was such a joy to watch. And that's just one example. It's not only teams that are losing, we as a fans are losing too, with some top players stayin' out of contest

so you only want same teams over and over again sacrificing the sport itself? basketball needs also to evolve. look at japan, before japanese don't care much about basketball. they seemed to be eliminated after they lost to taipei. but after that, hachimura and fazakas came and started to win and get 8 straight including the stunner against australia. since that, the following of basketball in japan grow significantly. now, every match of japanese are highly anticipated and broadcast live. i agree with the move. more than money, we should also the sport to others. we should not deprive others that might want it.

Mindozas
02-25-2019, 04:35 PM
so you only want same teams over and over again sacrificing the sport itself? basketball needs also to evolve. look at japan, before japanese don't care much about basketball. they seemed to be eliminated after they lost to taipei. but after that, hachimura and fazakas came and started to win and get 8 straight including the stunner against australia. since that, the following of basketball in japan grow significantly. now, every match of japanese are highly anticipated and broadcast live. i agree with the move. more than money, we should also the sport to others. we should not deprive others that might want it.

I don't get your approach to be honest. What I want? I want fair competition, FAIR. Am I asking too much? I want the best teams to be there. It's freaking SPORTS, that's how it should be and how it should work. Let's not turn the game into circus. Or we might go as far as some century back, when it was forbidden for guys taller than 2 meters to play... just to make game even. Then we should ban professionals to play too and make Universiade as top tournament. Yeah, I'm goin' over the top, but FIBA went too already. Basketball was evolving as sport succesfully all through the years. One teams came to the scene, then were gone with weaker generation, others appeared. It happens in all sports world, maybe only USA in basketball remains a top, but we won't ask to ban NBA players and go back to pre-1992 USA with students, right? We have seen top notch tournaments, top players, but now instead that we have some second string players playin' against each other. This kills the game, interest is much lower. Ask how it helped to evolve the game in Croatia, Slovenia, or some Cameroon, who maybe with their NBA and Europe based guys could have made it easily to World Cup. These are just few examples. I'd like to see how you were happy about Japan, if Japan would've been able to play with Hachimura and Fazekas against Philippines and most likely winning both games and kicking you out. Or Blatche would've been in NBA or some Euroleague club and wouldn't be able to come?... and you would be out of WC. Take a look at it from other perspective. Probably whole Philippines would like to kill FIBA. That's how other nations feels now. I was fine when Lithuania didn't qualify to Eurobasket back in 1993, it was us to blame, but I'd be pissed of if we would've been out now, just thnx to some freaking bureaucrats, who cares about the money only

Mindozas
02-25-2019, 07:23 PM
Great game in Podgorica. Latvia up by 5 after 3qtr, but was leading by +13 just few minutes ago, but wasted it. The game is pretty much open, hope Latvia will get the needed margin

Dtown
02-25-2019, 07:55 PM
Incredible game, and it's great that both teams knew the situation exactly. Latvia wins but falls 3 points short. Congrats Montenegro.

Mindozas
02-25-2019, 08:04 PM
Fcking sad :( Such a great generation of Latvia, bball rising there and now they'll miss it, along with chances to make it to Olympics or atleast OQT... Another victim of the system. Congrats to Montenegro tho

Dtown
02-25-2019, 08:13 PM
Fcking sad :( Such a great generation of Latvia, bball rising there and now they'll miss it, along with chances to make it to Olympics or atleast OQT... Another victim of the system. Congrats to Montenegro tho

iirc there is a wild card system in place for the Olympic Qualifying tournament, each region gets two teams that didn't finish in the top 16 of non automatic qualifiers. So Latvia and Slovenia still have a shot.

Mindozas
02-25-2019, 08:36 PM
iirc there is a wild card system in place for the Olympic Qualifying tournament, each region gets two teams that didn't finish in the top 16 of non automatic qualifiers. So Latvia and Slovenia still have a shot.

Yeah, this might be an option, if all European teams from World Cup will make it to OQT. Otherwise it would be another scandal to invite teams, which didn't even qualified to World Cup, but it's FIBA, so anything is possible. However another obstacle I see is that Latvia atleast doesn't have much money to spend on wildcard, especially if there'll be the same prices starting from 500k

ja.he
02-25-2019, 08:58 PM
I don't get your approach to be honest. What I want? I want fair competition, FAIR. Am I asking too much? I want the best teams to be there. It's freaking SPORTS, that's how it should be and how it should work. Let's not turn the game into circus. Or we might go as far as some century back, when it was forbidden for guys taller than 2 meters to play... just to make game even. Then we should ban professionals to play too and make Universiade as top tournament. Yeah, I'm goin' over the top, but FIBA went too already. Basketball was evolving as sport succesfully all through the years. One teams came to the scene, then were gone with weaker generation, others appeared. It happens in all sports world, maybe only USA in basketball remains a top, but we won't ask to ban NBA players and go back to pre-1992 USA with students, right? We have seen top notch tournaments, top players, but now instead that we have some second string players playin' against each other. This kills the game, interest is much lower. Ask how it helped to evolve the game in Croatia, Slovenia, or some Cameroon, who maybe with their NBA and Europe based guys could have made it easily to World Cup. These are just few examples. I'd like to see how you were happy about Japan, if Japan would've been able to play with Hachimura and Fazekas against Philippines and most likely winning both games and kicking you out. Or Blatche would've been in NBA or some Euroleague club and wouldn't be able to come?... and you would be out of WC. Take a look at it from other perspective. Probably whole Philippines would like to kill FIBA. That's how other nations feels now. I was fine when Lithuania didn't qualify to Eurobasket back in 1993, it was us to blame, but I'd be pissed of if we would've been out now, just thnx to some freaking bureaucrats, who cares about the money only

i think it's up to fiba, nba and euroleague to come up with a better compromise agreement that would enable nba and euroleague players to be released in every windows. fiba should know now how to bargain and find their leverage to nba.

Tevfik1907
02-25-2019, 09:16 PM
It didn't make any difference. -8 at an away game is very hard to beat, congratz to Montenegro. After Slovenia and Croatia, Latvia is another victim for FIBA's new system. No Porzingis, no Doncic, Dragic and no Bojan and Saric in the new FIBA World Cup.

Shawshank
02-25-2019, 09:46 PM
Feel sad for brothers latvians. They have really fun team to watch right now and world Cup would be better tournament with such exiting team. But this is sport Montenegro just dominated rebounds too much and latvians felt short by one shot... Watching the game I have discussion with my friend, that right now top 6 Latvians players are better than top 6 Lithuanian players... Of course our bench is way deeper, but as goes as starting 5 Latvians could put world class starting five that can shoot lights out. Basketball championships is way better with very unique superstars like Porzingis and Doncic somehow it doesn't feel right...

usagre
02-25-2019, 10:01 PM
It is moot now but I am 90% sure Porzingis wasn’t gonna compete in the tournament anyway. It’s very hard to envision him returning to basketball after a year and a half and having an international fiba tournament be his first game back. No way, too much invested in him to see that happening.

Obina
02-25-2019, 10:20 PM
It didn't make any difference. -8 at an away game is very hard to beat, congratz to Montenegro. After Slovenia and Croatia, Latvia is another victim for FIBA's new system. No Porzingis, no Doncic, Dragic and no Bojan and Saric in the new FIBA World Cup.

Croatia had Bogdanovic and Saric for few games. Why they are victims? Their problems are much bigger than fiba format.

Only real victim is Latvia, after them Slovenia...

Tevfik1907
02-25-2019, 10:34 PM
Croatia had Bogdanovic and Saric for few games. Why they are victims? Their problems are much bigger than fiba format.

Only real victim is Latvia, after them Slovenia...

In 3 important games they didn't have Bojan and Saric.

Poland home game
Hungary away game
Lithuania away game

mojo13
02-25-2019, 10:35 PM
It is moot now but I am 90% sure Porzingis wasn’t gonna compete in the tournament anyway. It’s very hard to envision him returning to basketball after a year and a half and having an international fiba tournament be his first game back. No way, too much invested in him to see that happening.

And Dallas Mavericks' Mark Cuban is about as anti-FIBA as NBA owners come. He puts a tremendous amount of pressure on his star players to not play. There is a low chance Doncic or Porzingus would play this summer even if their nations qualified.

Tevfik1907
02-26-2019, 12:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH4FoaQIasE

markkanen
02-26-2019, 12:10 AM
It didn't make any difference. -8 at an away game is very hard to beat, congratz to Montenegro. After Slovenia and Croatia, Latvia is another victim for FIBA's new system. No Porzingis, no Doncic, Dragic and no Bojan and Saric in the new FIBA World Cup.

Of course it's hard to beat, but let's remind ourselves how Montenegro had their +8 advantage. Because they have all players from BC Buducnost, and Latvia doesn't have any EL player in that match. So, all you have to do in that crazy and ridiculous system with this stupid windows is to have team in EL from your country or to have only average EC players, and you are a lucky bastard.

And mighty FIBA have anothet great idea! They have in mind to place that stupid windows only in the middle of the season. So, no more Finland, Slovenia, or even Latvia in eurobasket 2021, but there are some respectable national teams like Czech Republic, Bulgaria, and so on...

Shame on you FIBA!

BiHBasket
02-26-2019, 12:28 AM
Strelnieks played a perfect match, I was really impressed with his performance. It wasn't enough because he didn't have enough help from the rest of the team.

Tevfik1907
02-26-2019, 01:10 AM
Of course it's hard to beat, but let's remind ourselves how Montenegro had their +8 advantage. Because they have all players from BC Buducnost, and Latvia doesn't have any EL player in that match. So, all you have to do in that crazy and ridiculous system with this stupid windows is to have team in EL from your country or to have only average EC players, and you are a lucky bastard.

And mighty FIBA have anothet great idea! They have in mind to place that stupid windows only in the middle of the season. So, no more Finland, Slovenia, or even Latvia in eurobasket 2021, but there are some respectable national teams like Czech Republic, Bulgaria, and so on...

Shame on you FIBA!

We all know what this is about, it's not about NBA, but because of this Euroleague vs. FIBA thing, we will not able to see European NBA players in National World Cup.

I know FIBA is trying to fight with ULEB, but realistically they can't win as long as Spain (mostly the two giants Madrid and Barça - the headquarter is at Barça) is siding with ULEB no matter what. Madrid even threatened their own federation by leaving the national league, since their league is under the jurisdiction of FIBA, and then Bertomeu said there is no obstacle for playing in Euroleague only without playing in any national league, and he said it's because Euroleague is a company not a federation. We also know they want to increase the number of the teams and playing even more games in Euroleague, which is crazy considering the current toughness of the schedule.

This thing between ULEB and FIBA doesn't seem like it's going to settle for a while, I see only one resolve for this, other big teams in Euroleague should be decisive about a peace agreement and if there was not going to happen, then they must threaten Euroleague for leaving the league. But I don't see that happening since CSKA is a very critical for this, and they are very happy with this system. And as long as Madrid, Barça and CSKA are on this league, other teams like Fener and Efes, some italian and greek clubs won't leave this ''company'' since this is the major european basketball competition due to 3 giants out of 4 would be still playing in EL, and winning a European competition without Madrid, Barça and CSKA wouldn't be winning a European championship at all. These 3 clubs have the biggest budgets in Europe, larger than us as well. This is the only reason why Euroleague is important for other clubs, because Euroleague doesn't even pay a decent award money when you win the title. (1 million only, our budget is 30 million).

So, since ULEB is mainly consists of Spain clubs, the only resolve is this; CSKA and other giant clubs like Fener joining forces against these Spain clubs and threatening them by leaving the Euroleague without fixing this insane schedule and remake it accordingly to FIBA's schedule or both sides should agree on something at end of the day. This is the only way I see, because this is getting out of hand. We could be in the same situation with Latvia or Slovenia, and other teams could go to the World Cup instead of us because we couldn't use our NBA and Euroleague players in the games.

Of course, if FIBA takes a back step, things would be much easier as well. They only need to fix the schedule again, because for the reasons I said, I don't see Euroleague would take a back step against FIBA, and even if they did, we still won't see NBA players in national teams with this current schedule even if Euroleage agrees with FIBA's schedule. Either way, it's mainly FIBA's fault.

reamily
02-26-2019, 02:05 AM
rightguys won in america asia ( squeaker against lebanon) africa.. as for europe maybe adjustments make a window near thanksgiving so nba can lend players or even do it in september..and do a window during nba all star break.. they should (fiba gibe in) and have nba a pie share of earnkng on this windows..

Dtown
02-26-2019, 02:20 AM
rightguys won in america asia ( squeaker against lebanon) africa.. as for europe maybe adjustments make a window near thanksgiving so nba can lend players or even do it in september..and do a window during nba all star break.. they should (fiba gibe in) and have nba a pie share of earnkng on this windows..

I know they're trying to give players summers off, but honestly if they just did the windows from July-September it would solve a ton of issues.

Prancūzėlis_ZLD
02-26-2019, 08:24 AM
In 3 important games they didn't have Bojan and Saric.

Poland home game
Hungary away game
Lithuania away game

This is true, but in Lithuania, you could say that Lithuania didn't have NBA players as well. Besides, Croatia lost in Croatia versus Lithuania with Dario and Bojan while Lithuania didn't have any NBA players in that game either. In the end, Lithuania played most games without NBA or Euroleague players too (which is lot of players) and they ended qualifiers with 11-1
I'm not the biggest fan of this new format, but this must not be the only reason to explain why some countrie didn't make it.

reamily
02-26-2019, 08:42 AM
Survival of fittest very unlucky that there are some teams who had good players playing in euro league like latvia..

Mindozas
02-26-2019, 09:46 AM
This is true, but in Lithuania, you could say that Lithuania didn't have NBA players as well. Besides, Croatia lost in Croatia versus Lithuania with Dario and Bojan while Lithuania didn't have any NBA players in that game either. In the end, Lithuania played most games without NBA or Euroleague players too (which is lot of players) and they ended qualifiers with 11-1
I'm not the biggest fan of this new format, but this must not be the only reason to explain why some countrie didn't make it.

Croatia had Bojan and Saric in just 4 games out of 12. 33% of games!!!! It's not normal. Again, what we are talking about? About best teams competition or best reserves competition? Jeez, it's national teams we are talking about. It must have best players to compete, you are not supposed to have good B squad to qualify, it shouldn't work this way. It's absurd. There are absolutely no excuses for such format. I could only imagine if Lithuania would've failed, what on earth would have happened here... And it's really possible in the future, bear it in mind. It's good that we had Eurocup players at least (Rytas ones, Kalnietis, Giedraitis), it's good that some Seibutis, Juskevicius were free to come, it's good that EL and NBA ones joined in some important games like in Poland and in Hungary, so schedule was favorable in some points... But it was good now, none knows if we won't be in Croatia/Slovenia/Latvia/Finland shoes in 4 years. The same Serbia, Italy, Russia - a teams from Top8 in last Eurobasket, barely qualified...

Prancūzėlis_ZLD
02-26-2019, 10:14 AM
I do agree on all that, Mindozas, and once again I'm not saying this format is good... As you said, you're not supposed to have good B squad to qualify, and I also don't like at all the reason why this new format has been introduced (the "war" between Euroleague and FIBA).
That being said, I wrote the message above, because it sometimes sounds as if the only reason why Croatia or Slovenia didn't qualify is because of the new format, but I don't think this is the only reason. Are we sure that Croatia would have make it with another system ? This is even more true for Slovenia (considering Goran Dragić "retired" from national team) even if I'm the first one saying that the Eurobasket champion should be automatically qualified for World Cup.


In the end, what are the (only 12...) european teams which will be in the world cup ? Spain, Turkey, Montenegro, Lithuania, Italy, Poland, France, Russia, Czech Republic, Greece, Germany and Serbia. It's hard to say that any of this team doesn't deserve to be in the World Cup... Of course we could consider Latvia or Croatia would better fit than Montenegro, but I personally think this might be interesting to see Montenegro in the world cup with the addition of Vučević and Dubljević.

Mindozas
02-26-2019, 10:53 AM
I do agree on all that, Mindozas, and once again I'm not saying this format is good... As you said, you're not supposed to have good B squad to qualify, and I also don't like at all the reason why this new format has been introduced (the "war" between Euroleague and FIBA).
That being said, I wrote the message above, because it sometimes sounds as if the only reason why Croatia or Slovenia didn't qualify is because of the new format, but I don't think this is the only reason. Are we sure that Croatia would have make it with another system ? This is even more true for Slovenia (considering Goran Dragić "retired" from national team) even if I'm the first one saying that the Eurobasket champion should be automatically qualified for World Cup.

I get your point, but it's not about sure qualification, it's about chance of having the best players to give a shot. Would they qualify or not, that's not the issue, it's sports, anything is possible, the issue is that they didn't even have this chance to try

ja.he
02-26-2019, 12:23 PM
I get your point, but it's not about sure qualification, it's about chance of having the best players to give a shot. Would they qualify or not, that's not the issue, it's sports, anything is possible, the issue is that they didn't even have this chance to try

however, we finally know 4 things for sure. first, usa is in entirely different level. winning with an all-g-league team says something about us basketball. second, spain can do things even without gasol brothers and other nba players and euroleague players. third, lithuania is also deep as hell. that's says something deep well of untap talents in your country that were finally tapped. last, there is a life for argentina after the golden generation.

Mindozas
02-26-2019, 01:04 PM
however, we finally know 4 things for sure. first, usa is in entirely different level. winning with an all-g-league team says something about us basketball. second, spain can do things even without gasol brothers and other nba players and euroleague players. third, lithuania is also deep as hell. that's says something deep well of untap talents in your country that were finally tapped. last, there is a life for argentina after the golden generation.

Well, I'd say that we only know that these teams (Spain, Lithuania) has wider players pool, who are close to NT, but if to let these rosters play in serious competition against other top guns, both would swept away most likely, at least surely not a medal contenders. USA, yeah, USA is another level, we know that for years. But again, they did fine in Americas, I'm not sure if that would be enough to grab a spot in Europe, where competition is much fiercer. Argentina, well, I don't have strict opinion as I don't know local talent they has for upcoming years, but for now, they are obviously in downtrend. Scola, Campazzo, Laprovitolla, Deck and few others still keeps them alive, but not sure if there's something bright for the future. Hope there's as I really enjoyed their basketball since 1996

ja.he
02-26-2019, 01:32 PM
Well, I'd say that we only know that these teams (Spain, Lithuania) has wider players pool, who are close to NT, but if to let these rosters play in serious competition against other top guns, both would swept away most likely, at least surely not a medal contenders. USA, yeah, USA is another level, we know that for years. But again, they did fine in Americas, I'm not sure if that would be enough to grab a spot in Europe, where competition is much fiercer. Argentina, well, I don't have strict opinion as I don't know local talent they has for upcoming years, but for now, they are obviously in downtrend. Scola, Campazzo, Laprovitolla, Deck and few others still keeps them alive, but not sure if there's something bright for the future. Hope there's as I really enjoyed their basketball since 1996

that's the point play the untap talents in windows then let the best players play for the world cup. in that scenario, you are widening the selection of players for your team and not only relying on a select few. me also, at first, i don't like the format at its inception. but as time passes, i started to appreciate the good things about this format.

Mindozas
02-26-2019, 01:57 PM
that's the point play the untap talents in windows then let the best players play for the world cup. in that scenario, you are widening the selection of players for your team and not only relying on a select few. me also, at first, i don't like the format at its inception. but as time passes, i started to appreciate the good things about this format.

I guess you are a type of person, who always tries to find something positive even in the worst thing possible :) My opinion didn't change since the beginning, for really talented guys you'll always find a place in a team sooner or later, but at least what comes to Lithuania, most of these new guys who featured in NT during windows, won't be there until some other force majeure. Overall, there are friendlies for testing