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JGX
05-05-2017, 06:21 AM
I guess this deserves its own thread instead of being mixed in with the AmeriCup stuff. Here is a video describing the draw format for the first stage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGQZngm8izA

The South American teams and Panama will be placed in Groups A and B, while the North American/Caribbean teams and Mexico will be placed in Groups C and D.

Who gets in if Brazil is still suspended? The next-placed team at the South American championships was Bolivia, who are really really bad.

Dtown
05-05-2017, 01:46 PM
The draw itself will be held on Sunday 7 AM EST if I'm not mistaken. Though I'm not sure if that's all the draws for the FIBA qualifiers, or if they'll drag it out one region at a time.

It's really impossible to get a feel for the event itself since it's likely the only teams capable of bringing their A squads will be the dregs of the region. Everyone else is coming with their B, C, or D (league) teams. It makes me wonder on roster restrictions.

Still with 7 teams making it and potentially no Brazil (why are they suspended anyway?) it's hard not to see the big boys qualifying.

mojo13
05-05-2017, 05:39 PM
The draw itself will be held on Sunday 7 AM EST if I'm not mistaken. Though I'm not sure if that's all the draws for the FIBA qualifiers, or if they'll drag it out one region at a time.

It's really impossible to get a feel for the event itself since it's likely the only teams capable of bringing their A squads will be the dregs of the region. Everyone else is coming with their B, C, or D (league) teams. It makes me wonder on roster restrictions.

Still with 7 teams making it and potentially no Brazil (why are they suspended anyway?) it's hard not to see the big boys qualifying.

FIBA list of the many reasons to suspend Brazil is here:
http://www.fiba.com/news/fiba-suspends-brazilian-federation

The true reason is they never paid their $1-2MM fee to FIBA to purchase their wildcard entry into the 2014 World Cup. FIBA was close to suspending them leading up to the Olympics by the IOC didn't want the politics of the host country not participating.

Steadysoul
05-05-2017, 07:55 PM
FIBA list of the many reasons to suspend Brazil is here:
http://www.fiba.com/news/fiba-suspends-brazilian-federation

The true reason is they never paid their $1-2MM fee to FIBA to purchase their wildcard entry into the 2014 World Cup. FIBA was close to suspending them leading up to the Olympics by the IOC didn't want the politics of the host country not participating.

Not paying them exposed a number of structural issues. They would have honestly been better off missing the event

JGX
05-06-2017, 02:39 AM
I wonder if they are combining groups A/B and C/D for the second stage, leading to a fully North/South regionalized qualifying tournament, or whether they will combine a north group with a south group (or if they'll have a random draw to decide which groups are combined). For travel and rivalries/interest it's probably better to keep it regionalized in the Americas, but in Asia (where the first stage groups are also regionalized) it would be pretty crazy since the East is much stronger.

Dtown
05-07-2017, 03:36 PM
Draw's done, and honestly I think the US might have landed in the toughest initial group.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_FIBA_Basketball_World_Cup_qualification

United States, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Cuba.

I imagine Cuba's the odd team out, but I think Puerto Rico and Mexico can create some pretty decent teams sans NBA/Euroleague talent.

If the Americas stay regional in the second round it means one of United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Dominican Republic is missing the World Cup.

The South American draw looks much easier.

usagre
05-07-2017, 07:30 PM
If the Americas stay regional in the second round it means one of United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Dominican Republic is missing the World Cup.


Without looking at rosters and just using history as a guide it appears going in that there are 8 teams for 7 spots.
USA, Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic and Mexico. If the USA is the one odd team out no matter who's on the team they deserve not to participate in the World Cup. Any combination of D- Leaguers should be able to accomplish this result at a minimum.

Dtown
05-07-2017, 07:47 PM
Without looking at rosters and just using history as a guide it appears going in that there are 8 teams for 7 spots.
USA, Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic and Mexico. If the USA is the one odd team out no matter who's on the team they deserve not to participate in the World Cup. Any combination of D- Leaguers should be able to accomplish this result at a minimum.

The thing is given the setup, if they stay regional, it's more like two separate competitions. One for South America and one for North America.

So it's more like US, Canada, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic and Mexico competing for 3 guaranteed spots. With Brazil (if they play), Argentina, Venezuela and maybe Uruguay competing for three separate spots.

Out of those five in North America I think Canada might have the roughest time without access to NBA or College Kids.

usagre
05-07-2017, 08:18 PM
Ok I see your point. But in all honesty no matter what the format and considering that all teams will have players missing I would probably make a D league USA team the favorite anyway to win the whole tournament let alone qualify.

Steadysoul
05-08-2017, 12:26 AM
The thing is given the setup, if they stay regional, it's more like two separate competitions. One for South America and one for North America.

So it's more like US, Canada, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic and Mexico competing for 3 guaranteed spots. With Brazil (if they play), Argentina, Venezuela and maybe Uruguay competing for three separate spots.

Out of those five in North America I think Canada might have the roughest time without access to NBA or College Kids.

The only way it stays regional is if they redraw for the second set of groups. More likely they seed them based on how they finished in the previous group round.

JGX
05-08-2017, 12:35 AM
Draw's done, and honestly I think the US might have landed in the toughest initial group.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_FIBA_Basketball_World_Cup_qualification

United States, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Cuba.

I imagine Cuba's the odd team out, but I think Puerto Rico and Mexico can create some pretty decent teams sans NBA/Euroleague talent.

If the Americas stay regional in the second round it means one of United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Dominican Republic is missing the World Cup.

The South American draw looks much easier.

Yeah, the US definitely got the tougher team from the PR/DR and Mexico/USVI groupings. How many Cuban players will defect when they play here?

Venezuela got a much easier group than Argentina if Brazil doesn't play.

Schedule with dates:
http://www.fiba.com/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/fullschedule

US opens at Puerto Rico on Thanksgiving, which should draw a television rating of 0.001.

JGX
05-08-2017, 12:50 AM
BTW the FIBA regulations seem to indicate that groups A/C and B/D get combined for the second stage, so it is not totally regionalized:

Second Round
Qualifications for the FIBA Basketball World Cup
The twelve (12) teams qualified from the the FIBA Basketball World Cup
Americas Qualifiers shall be divided into two (2) groups of six (6) teams (E,
F). Each team shall play home and away games against the three (3) new
teams in its own group (total of six (6) games per team). The results of all
games played in the First Round are valid for this Round.
• Group E: 1A, 2A, 3A, 1C, 2C, 3C
• Group F: 1B, 2B, 3B, 1D, 2D, 3D
The three (3) best placed teams from each group and the best fourth placed
team (total of seven (7) teams) shall qualify for the FIBA Basketball World Cup.
All twelve (12) teams remain in the FIBA AmeriCup Qualifiers for the following
FIBA AmeriCup Cycle

With no Brazil groups A/C would certainly be tougher, though it still drops off a lot after the top four of USA/ARG/PUR/MEX.

Dtown
05-08-2017, 01:01 AM
BTW the FIBA regulations seem to indicate that groups A/C and B/D get combined for the second stage, so it is not totally regionalized:

Second Round
Qualifications for the FIBA Basketball World Cup
The twelve (12) teams qualified from the the FIBA Basketball World Cup
Americas Qualifiers shall be divided into two (2) groups of six (6) teams (E,
F). Each team shall play home and away games against the three (3) new
teams in its own group (total of six (6) games per team). The results of all
games played in the First Round are valid for this Round.
• Group E: 1A, 2A, 3A, 1C, 2C, 3C
• Group F: 1B, 2B, 3B, 1D, 2D, 3D
The three (3) best placed teams from each group and the best fourth placed
team (total of seven (7) teams) shall qualify for the FIBA Basketball World Cup.
All twelve (12) teams remain in the FIBA AmeriCup Qualifiers for the following
FIBA AmeriCup Cycle

With no Brazil groups A/C would certainly be tougher, though it still drops off a lot after the top four of USA/ARG/PUR/MEX.

While I'm happy it's not regional, wow A/C is like on another level difficulty if Brazil's not there.. Even without their NBA talent if Canada can't get through that they're never doing anything.

mojo13
05-08-2017, 05:56 PM
While I'm happy it's not regional, wow A/C is like on another level difficulty if Brazil's not there.. Even without their NBA talent if Canada can't get through that they're never doing anything.

Yes, this is a nice draw to see. I'll keep my fingers crossed that Brazil remains suspended. We have no idea what quality of team Canada can field yet as we really have little to no domestic talent. Even if we are using no EL/EC guys we'd need to drag guys across the world from Europe or Asia to participate, hoping that their club teams will release them.

You'd think Brazil and Venezuela might have the biggest advantage with their domestic league but both have their own set of serious political/domestic issues. DR doesn't seem to have much depth without their star players. At least Canada theoretically has some depth, with a good amount of decent players tied to the national team in non EL/EC leagues or Asia and even some guys domestic in the D-League.

Some names off the top of my head that we may be able to pull from include:

Both Scrubbs (Phil and Thomas), Olivier Hanlan, Melvin Ejim, Doornekamp, Dyshawn Pierre, Daniel Mullins, Andy Rautins, Carl English, Rob Sacre, Sim Bhullar, Jordan Bachynski, Junior Cadugan, Myck Kabongo, Levon Kendall, Jermaine Anderson, Jermaine Bucknor, Kris and Devoe Joseph (I'm throwing out as many names as possible of guys affiliated with the SMNT over the last couple years - the sun has probably set on more than a few of these guys).

We probably also have access to some guys like Kyle Wiltjer, Brady Heslip, Dylan Brooks, Chris Boucher, Xavier Rathan Maynes depending on where they end up (d-league of foreign leagues). Khem Birch, Anthony Bennett, Kevin Pangos are out the moment being on EL teams.

This list could change as European teams realign their affiliation again this coming year and guys change teams but it should be Enough to get through the first round at least.

Mojado
05-09-2017, 08:15 AM
Mexico will most certainly be without Ayon in the qualifiers. Depending on the availability of Gutierrez, Stoll and Cruz, the team does look good on paper to compete with a D-League team and/or Puerto Rico.
No idea who will be playing for PR these days, probably a young and ambitioned team without its college players.
Cuba comes in with a solid squad that needs Justiz in the middle in order to be a factor.
USVI and Bahamas are two teams that were able to rely heavily on overseas pros and college players that went home for vacations during summer. Now, with college-players probably being off-limits and pro-players need to be jetted in, I think these two countries suffer the most from the new schedule. Bahamas will probably be without DeAndre Ayton, who was their go-to-guy last year and who will be a freshman in Arizona.

tres equis
05-10-2017, 12:52 AM
Puerto Rico’s Casiano acknowledges the risks of playing well-known rivals in the World Cup Qualifiers
http://www.fiba.com/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/puerto-rico%E2%80%99s-casiano-acknowledges-the-risks-of-playing-well-known-rivals-in-the-world-cup-qualifiers

Dtown
06-28-2017, 12:53 AM
Jeff Van Gundy to coach the US through qualifiers. http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/06/27/report-jeff-van-gundy-to-come-out-of-booth-coach-usa-basketball-in-world-cup-qualifying/

JGX
06-28-2017, 02:06 AM
Jeff Van Gundy to coach the US through qualifiers. http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/06/27/report-jeff-van-gundy-to-come-out-of-booth-coach-usa-basketball-in-world-cup-qualifying/

Yay, a guy with no international experience who hasn't coached in a decade. In fairness I suppose there are limited options, since no currently employed coach is going to be able to do this.

Canada is hosting their opening qualifier against Bahamas in Halifax:
http://globalnews.ca/news/3548314/halifax-to-host-canadas-first-qualifying-game-for-2019-fiba-basketball-world-cup/

JGX
07-06-2017, 04:13 AM
Official Van Gundy announcement, will coach the AmeriCup team as well:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2017/07/mwcq-coaches.aspx

JGX
10-04-2017, 05:58 PM
US will host Mexico at the Greensboro Coliseum Complex Fieldhouse (next door to the actual Greensboro Coliseum), home of the G-League's Greensboro Swarm.

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2017/10/mwcq-greensboro-game.aspx

mojo13
10-06-2017, 07:04 PM
US will host Mexico at the Greensboro Coliseum Complex Fieldhouse (next door to the actual Greensboro Coliseum), home of the G-League's Greensboro Swarm.

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2017/10/mwcq-greensboro-game.aspx

Supposedly the national federations need to provide a 20 man player pool they will select a team from for the November Qaulifier to FIBA in the next week or two. Not sure the exact date.

Keep an eye out for them and post here.

JGX
10-10-2017, 03:39 PM
Supposedly the national federations need to provide a 20 man player pool they will select a team from for the November Qaulifier to FIBA in the next week or two. Not sure the exact date.

Keep an eye out for them and post here.

They have until two weeks before the start of the international window to submit a preliminary list of 24 players.

mojo13
10-17-2017, 06:56 PM
They have until two weeks before the start of the international window to submit a preliminary list of 24 players.

Deadline for the 24 man pool is supposedly Nov. 6th.

I posted this elsewhere but strangely France named its EL players to its WC Qualification squad.
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/european-qualifiers/news/france-announce-preliminary-squad-for-november-world-cup-qualifiers

Andrew Albicy
Fabien Causeur
Nando de Colo
Boris Diaw
Antoine Diot
Moustapha Fall
Thomas Heurtel
Edwin Jackson
Charles Kahudi
Louis Labeyrie
Adrien Moerman
Vincent Porier
Kevin Seraphin
Axel Toupane
Leo Westermann

Along with 9 back ups (24 total) in case the EL guys are not released.
The players on standby are Axel Boutelille, Mouhammadou Jaiteh, Axel Julien, Alain Koffi, Lahaou Konate, Paul Lacombe, Mathias Lessort, Amine Noua and Elie Okobo.

I am not sure what the heck is going on. Maybe a play to put pressure on the EL to change its dates. Since the deadline for the 24 man roster is now not until Nov 6th they have plenty of time to make chnages.

JGX
10-18-2017, 02:32 PM
Deadline for the 24 man pool is supposedly Nov. 6th.

The window starts on the 20th so that makes sense.


I posted this elsewhere but strangely France named its EL players to its WC Qualification squad.


So did Italy:
https://www.sportando.com/en/national-teams/national-teams/250490/italy-announce-preliminary-squad-for-fiba-world-cup-qualifiers.html

Presumably all the European teams will name some Euroleague players? There's no real downside, it's not like there are actually 24 players in contention to make the squad.

Most of the US AmeriCup players were cut from NBA training camps. Hilliard (Spurs) and CJ Williams (Clippers) got two-way contracts, do we know if guys on two-way contracts will be available if currently assigned to the G League?

mojo13
10-20-2017, 08:15 PM
The window starts on the 20th so that makes sense.



So did Italy:
https://www.sportando.com/en/national-teams/national-teams/250490/italy-announce-preliminary-squad-for-fiba-world-cup-qualifiers.html

Presumably all the European teams will name some Euroleague players? There's no real downside, it's not like there are actually 24 players in contention to make the squad.

Most of the US AmeriCup players were cut from NBA training camps. Hilliard (Spurs) and CJ Williams (Clippers) got two-way contracts, do we know if guys on two-way contracts will be available if currently assigned to the G League?

Looks like all the European countries are naming their EL players. Guys like Hackett and Datome have already said they were not consulted and it puts them in a really awkward spot.


I really don't know about the two-ways. I was assuming they would be available, but you are already seeing some of them up on the NBA rosters. I supposed it is up to the NBA team whether the player is needed with the parent club or not. USA Basketball seem to have enough power to get their Two-way players on board. Basketball Canada won;t have that power, but maybe USA Basketball paves the way for them.

Chris Boucher of the Warriors is Canada's only two-way, but he'd be nice to have available (if healthy and ready to play).

It seems Xavier Rathan Maybes, Anthony Bennett and Naz Long will all be in the G. Hopefully they make themselves available. Khem Birch could be a guy doing stints in the G too, but he's is on the Magic's main roster so no idea if he will be available (not counting on it, but it would be a pleasant surprise).

Heaven knows who else is going to be available....wonder if we name our EL guys (Pangos and Doornekamp) as well, let alone other solid Euro based guys like Ejim, the Srubb bros etc. It is easy travel for the European guys to get to games, for the North and South Americans in Europe....not so much.

mojo13
10-20-2017, 08:25 PM
Argentina first of the Americas to name their 24 man pool:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/argentina-announces-24-player-preliminary-list-for-world-cup-qualifiers

Argentina's 24-man squad ahead of World Cup Qualifiers

Facundo Campazzo
Nicolás Laprovittola
Luca Vildoza
Nicolás Aguirre
Franco Balbi
José Vildoza
Máximo Fjellerup
Lucio Redivo
Eric Flor
Tomás Zanzottera
Gabriel Deck
Patricio Garino
Marcos Mata
Federico Aguerre
Franco Giorgetti
Luis Scola
Javier Saiz
Leonardo Mainoldi
Matías Sandes
Marcos Delía
Tayavek Gallizzi
Roberto Acuña
Francisco Caffaro
Lautaro Berra


I am unfamiliar with a load of these guys but interesting to see Scola who is in China this year - I had no idea if the Asian league guys would be available or not. I see a EuroLeague guy there with Patricio Garino - And see Eurocup player in Laprovíttola and FIBA Champions League in Campazzo.

Any commentary on the rest of these guys?

Looked at their AmeriCup stats and this list of 24 includes their top 9 players minus Nicolas Brussino who is with the Atlanta Hawks. But adds in Scola (if available) who didnt play at the AmeriCup. He was with the team but was hurt.
http://www.fiba.basketball/en/americup/2017/Argentina/

Main core from AmeriCup was:
Facundo Campazzo
Nicolás Laprovittola
Lucio Redivo
Gabriel Deck
Patricio Garino
Marcos Delía
Javier Saiz
Nicolas Brussino


I understand that just because guys are on this 24 man list, it doesn't mean they will be available to play - but this is a start.

JGX
10-21-2017, 05:14 AM
Puerto Rico will be "hosting" the US at UCF in Orlando:
https://www.elnuevodia.com/deportes/baloncesto/nota/enorlandoelprimerjuegoclasificatoriodepuertoricoal mundial-2367756/

Dtown
10-21-2017, 01:33 PM
Puerto Rico will be "hosting" the US at UCF in Orlando:
https://www.elnuevodia.com/deportes/baloncesto/nota/enorlandoelprimerjuegoclasificatoriodepuertoricoal mundial-2367756/

Given the disaster Puerto Rico has faced it makes sense. Also they can drum up a lot of support in Florida so it might just feel like a home game

mojo13
10-23-2017, 04:26 PM
Uruguay names their 24 man player pool for the WC Qualification games.
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/uruguay-name-24-player-in-preliminary-squad-for-world-cup-qualifiers
Jayson Granger (Euroleague - Baskonia), Bruno Fitipaldo and Esteban Batista, leading scorers for the Uruguayan team during the FIBA AmeriCup 2017, highlight the list.

JGX
10-24-2017, 01:16 AM
USVI also cannot host their November game against the Dominican Republic due to hurricane damage. The game will be played in the DR instead.

Dominican coaches have been in Europe visiting their players. They are having a press conference on Wednesday, perhaps they will announce their player pool then. According to this article several players including James Feldeine and Eloy Vargas have committed:
http://www.basketdominicano.com/varios-dominicanos-europa-jugaran-equipo-noviembre/

Bahamas Basketball Federation press conference/sponsorship pitch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuu1Rsv6ZOk

mojo13
10-24-2017, 04:13 PM
PR names its 24 man player pool:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/puerto-rico-names-24-player-preliminary-squad-for-americas-qualifiers-to-world-cup

"Mike Rosario and Angel Rodriguez, whom led the Boricua team in scoring during the FIBA AmeriCup 2017, point guard Carlos Rivera and sharpshooters David Huertas and Guillermo Diaz are four of the headline names in the preliminary list."




Venezuela calls on core national stars for Americas Qualifiers opener:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/venezuela-calls-on-core-national-stars-for-americas-qualifiers-opener

JGX
10-25-2017, 04:21 AM
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22688636_1528643820538559_1917341848359106372_n.jp g?oh=d9202cfb6ca4620011358d208c80f3ee&oe=5A8207F7

mojo13
10-25-2017, 06:28 PM
Paraguay's 24 man pool....

http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/returning-javier-martinez-and-guillermo-araujo-highlight-paraguays-list-for-americas-qualifiers

JGX
10-26-2017, 01:52 AM
Dominican Republic named 20 players:


Asimismo compartió un listado preliminar de jugadores que estarían disponibles para la primera ventana clasificatoria. Mencionó a los armadores Adris de León, Edgar Sosa, Gelvis Solano, Ronald Ramón y Miguel Dicent, junto a los tiradores Gerardo Suero, James Feldeine, Rigoberto Mendoza y Víctor Liz.

Para la posición tres destacó a Ángel Núñez, Dagoberto Peña, Juan Miguel Suero y Sadiel Rojas, en tanto que también citó a los aleros de poder Edward Santana, Eulis Báez, Juan Guerrero, Robert Glenn, además de los centros Eloy Vargas, Jonathan Araujo y M.J. Rhett.

http://www.basketdominicano.com/rd-presenta-estructura-primera-ventana-clasificatoria-fiba/

mojo13
10-30-2017, 05:00 PM
Brazil names 24 man player pool:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/petrovic-announces-brazil%E2%80%99s-24-player-list-for-americas-qualifiers

"The well rounded list is highlighted by Anderson Varejao, Raulzinho, and Marcelinho Huertas, and also includes well-known stars Alex, Marquinhos, Benite, Olivinga, Fulvio, Hettsheimer and Caio Torres."

mojo13
11-01-2017, 09:06 PM
Chinese team Shangdong Golden Stars announced they will not let Donatas Motiejunas play for Lithuania in the upcoming WC Qualifier.
http://www.eurohoops.net/en/fibawc/545012/motiejunas-club-doesnt-allow-play-world-cup-qualifiers/
A surprise as FIBA was not expecting issues with Chinese clubs.


Not sure how this impacts other Americas teams but for Canada it puts Andrew Nicholson's participation in jeopardy from my perspective. He was our lone forecourt player who could effectively score at the AmeriCup. Scola for ARG too as he is in China.

Could be a one-off health issue with Motiejunas as he has been hurt much of the last two years and Nicholson is still in play...

JGX
11-01-2017, 11:11 PM
Doesn't seem worth it for either Canada or Nicholson. That's an awful lot of travel with little recovery (or practice) time.

mojo13
11-02-2017, 08:13 PM
Doesn't seem worth it for either Canada or Nicholson. That's an awful lot of travel with little recovery (or practice) time.

Unfortunately I think you are right. That is such a long way to go. Hopefully we can snag a few solid non-EL pros from Europe (Ejim, P. Scrubb, T. Scrubb, Pierre, Heslip) and get most of our best G-League guys (Bennett, Hanlan, XRM, Birch, Long).

JGX
11-06-2017, 02:33 PM
FIBA website lists 22 players for Canada, no idea if this is actually the official list:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/Canada

mojo13
11-06-2017, 05:24 PM
FIBA website lists 22 players for Canada, no idea if this is actually the official list:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/Canada

Nothing is listed anymore. Probably not legit but happen to recall any names?

JGX
11-07-2017, 01:38 AM
Nothing is listed anymore. Probably not legit but happen to recall any names?

It was D-League guys (including Bennett), Ejim, Scrubb brothers, Heslip, Notice, Glaze, Amardi, Anderson, Ashaolu, Anthony, Bhullar, Joseph, Trasolini, Ward, Klassen, and maybe a couple others (Pierre?) that I don't recall. The notable omissions were Pangos and Nicholson, don't think Birch was on there either. Burnatowski and Diressa were not listed so it def wasn't just the AmeriCup list.

mojo13
11-08-2017, 05:35 PM
It was D-League guys (including Bennett), Ejim, Scrubb brothers, Heslip, Notice, Glaze, Amardi, Anderson, Ashaolu, Anthony, Bhullar, Joseph, Trasolini, Ward, Klassen, and maybe a couple others (Pierre?) that I don't recall. The notable omissions were Pangos and Nicholson, don't think Birch was on there either. Burnatowski and Diressa were not listed so it def wasn't just the AmeriCup list.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep my finders crossed that this is even remotely accurate. It would be a big improvement to the AmeriCup team despite losing Nicholson.

Trasolini and Klassen are decent bigs playing at a solid pro level and could add depth to Bennett, Ejim, Pierre, T. Scrubb, Anthony. Cripes - even Bhullar could do some damage at this level. Would be really nice to see Birch on the list.

XRM, Hanlan, Phil Scrubb, Heslip, Anderson is a decent back court.


Dierresa is injured (and shouldn't be on the team anyways), and Caduogan is injured too - so this list that doesnt exist, make some sense. You'd think if Trasolini or Olashu is willing to fly from Japan - Sacre would too. Nicholson from China too. But we don;t know their personal situations.

JGX
11-08-2017, 08:22 PM
Argentina cut their list down to 13. Only four overseas-based players, including the China-based Scola:
http://www.directvsports.com/basquetbol/fiba-masculino/noticias/hernandez-dio-lista-definitiva-para-inicio-las-eliminatorias

Uruguay missing the injured Fitipaldo:
http://www.ovaciondigital.com.uy/basquetbol/baja-sensible-uruguay.html

mojo13
11-10-2017, 10:11 PM
Argentina cut their list down to 13. Only four overseas-based players, including the China-based Scola:
http://www.directvsports.com/basquetbol/fiba-masculino/noticias/hernandez-dio-lista-definitiva-para-inicio-las-eliminatorias

Uruguay missing the injured Fitipaldo:
http://www.ovaciondigital.com.uy/basquetbol/baja-sensible-uruguay.html



VEN down to 15. With 10 guys from their 2015 AmeriCup team.
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/venezuela-trim-preliminary-list-to-15-players

Brazil cuts to 14
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/petrovic-cuts-brazils-preliminary-squad-for-americas-qualifiers-to-14-players

Chile cuts to 14
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/Chile#|tab=roster

Not a peep from Canada yet. Nothing in the media either.

locdogjr
11-12-2017, 02:07 PM
VEN down to 15. With 10 guys from their 2015 AmeriCup team.
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/venezuela-trim-preliminary-list-to-15-players

Brazil cuts to 14
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/petrovic-cuts-brazils-preliminary-squad-for-americas-qualifiers-to-14-players

Chile cuts to 14
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/Chile#|tab=roster

Not a peep from Canada yet. Nothing in the media either.

It is incredible how few people every understood the FIBA qualification system before,
now?

No one.

I've told people about it, with the games taking place in two weeks, and it is just disbelief. People think I'm joking or just talking out of my ass. What a silly new system

The Halifax Rainmen vs. The Bahama's domestic league in a battle for global supremacy.

FIBA could've had teams play in their countries without copying the FIFA system. This is their big power move and we'll see how long they even stick with it. International basketball has never mattered in the least to North America. What happens when a major European power gets upset over this? What about, Slovenia for example, they can go win Eurobasket but can they even qualify for Worlds without their NBA and Euroleague stars?

Rant over......

Dtown
11-13-2017, 01:46 AM
It is incredible how few people every understood the FIBA qualification system before,
now?

No one.

I've told people about it, with the games taking place in two weeks, and it is just disbelief. People think I'm joking or just talking out of my ass. What a silly new system

The Halifax Rainmen vs. The Bahama's domestic league in a battle for global supremacy.

FIBA could've had teams play in their countries without copying the FIFA system. This is their big power move and we'll see how long they even stick with it. International basketball has never mattered in the least to North America. What happens when a major European power gets upset over this? What about, Slovenia for example, they can go win Eurobasket but can they even qualify for Worlds without their NBA and Euroleague stars?

Rant over......

I still don't get why they didn't have the windows from July through say September. 6 games spread over 3 months is hardly going to wear people out, and while you may not have gotten everyone's A team you would have gotten at least a few B squads.

JGX
11-13-2017, 05:55 AM
Bahamas news:


"Out of the 24 players who have listed to participate, 18 of them have consented to come home and compete on the team," Bowleg said. "So our coaching staff is confident that out of that list, we will be able to field one of the best teams ever assembled to represent the country. A lot of the players are eager to come home and try out for the team."

.......

Players who are expected to compete for their spot on the team are Mark Saint Fort, David Nesbitt, Abel Joseph, Jonathan Augustin-Fairell, Eugene Bain, Michael Carey, Livingstone Munnings, Robert Nortman, Juraun Kino Burrows, Torrington Cox, Michael Bain, Craig Smith Jr, Darshtyn Baker, Lynden Rose Jr, Jackson Jacob, Shaquille Cleare and Shavaro Cooper.

http://www.tribune242.com/news/2017/nov/08/top-basketball-players-eager-to-try-out-for-team/

mojo13
11-13-2017, 06:48 PM
Bahamas news:



http://www.tribune242.com/news/2017/nov/08/top-basketball-players-eager-to-try-out-for-team/


Marc Stein is starting to drop Tweets on the USA roster. Maybe look for an official announcement later in the day but it is looking something like this:

PG: Semaj Christon / Xavier Munford / Larry Drew II
SG: Donald Sloan / Markel Brown
SF: Elijah Millsap
PF: Amile Jefferson / Travis Wear / Jameel Warney
C: Kennedy Meeks

Pretty small team, but most have at least a little bit of NBA experience.

Hepcat
11-13-2017, 09:09 PM
This seems to be the composition of the Canadian team that will play the Bahamas in Halifax on November 24th:

Canadian Men's Basketball Team (http://www.basketball.ca/en/team_programs/mens-team)

:)

mojo13
11-14-2017, 12:24 AM
This seems to be the composition of the Canadian team that will play the Bahamas in Halifax on November 24th:

Canadian Men's Basketball Team (http://www.basketball.ca/en/team_programs/mens-team)

:)


No this is incorrect - This is the AmeriCup team from the summer.
At the very least Cadougan and Diressa will not be playing due to injuries (thankfully).

I expect the most if the core of this team in XRM, Hanlan, Pierre, Heslip and Anthony to be on the team but after that, it is anyone guess.


Look for some decent additions from a group that includes Bennett, the Scrubb Bros, Ejim, Birch and other G-Leaguers (Long, Mulder, Best) and international pros (Trasolini, Klassen, Sacre, Bhullar, Landry, Kris Joseph)

JGX
11-14-2017, 06:22 AM
Marc Stein tweeting some players on the US roster, also comfirms that players on two-way contracts are not eligible:

Marc Stein‏Verified account
@TheSteinLine
12 hours ago
Team USA will be coached by @espn analyst Jeff Van Gundy but cannot have any NBA players -- or even two-way contract players -- on the 12-man roster

Marc Stein‏Verified account
@TheSteinLine
12 hours ago
League sources say Markel Brown (@okcblue), Travis Wear (@SouthBayLakers), Kennedy Meeks (@Raptors905), Larry Drew (@SFSkyforce) and current free agent Semaj Christon have also made the @usabasketball World Cup qualifying roster

Marc Stein Retweeted
Chris Reichert‏
@Chris_Reichert
12 hours ago
Hearing that Windy City Bulls forward Jarell Eddie will be on Team USA’s 12-man roster for FIBA World Cup qualifying roster, per league sources #GLeague

Marc Stein‏Verified account
@TheSteinLine
13 hours ago
Another name, per league sources, for Jeff Van Gundy's 12-man @usabasketball @FIBAWC qualifying squad: Xavier Munford (@WisconsinHerd)


Marc Stein‏Verified account
@TheSteinLine
13 hours ago
The full 12-man @usabasketball squad that will face Puerto Rico in Orlando on Thanksgiving and Mexico in Greensboro, N.C., on Nov. 26 will be announced this week

Marc Stein‏Verified account
@TheSteinLine
13 hours ago
League sources say @nbagleague stars Elijah Millsap and Amile Jefferson (@iawolves) as well as Donald Sloan and Jameel Warney (@texaslegends) have earned spots on Jeff Van Gundy's 12-man Team USA roster

Hepcat
11-14-2017, 02:42 PM
No this is incorrect - This is the AmeriCup team from the summer.
At the very least Cadougan and Diressa will not be playing due to injuries (thankfully).

I expect the most if the core of this team in XRM, Hanlan, Pierre, Heslip and Anthony to be on the team but after that, it is anyone guess.

Look for some decent additions from a group that includes Bennett, the Scrubb Bros, Ejim, Birch and other G-Leaguers (Long, Mulder, Best) and international pros (Trasolini, Klassen, Sacre, Bhullar, Landry, Kris Joseph)

What the hell? Today is the 14th! The first game is in only ten days time.

:eek:

Is there a basketball federation in the world that's sloppier and slower in getting its act together than Basketball Canada? Is Team Canada going to consist of the first twelve people that show up for the game in Halifax?

:confused:

JGX
11-14-2017, 04:21 PM
Canada's preliminary list of 24:
http://www.basketball.ca/en/news-article/slug-9cc3j2

Pretty much the list that was on the FIBA site but with a couple extra players.

A little late to be announcing the preliminary list, surely they know the 12-man roster by now? Airplane tickets have to be purchased at some point.

mojo13
11-14-2017, 05:28 PM
Canada's preliminary list of 24:
http://www.basketball.ca/en/news-article/slug-9cc3j2

Pretty much the list that was on the FIBA site but with a couple extra players.

A little late to be announcing the preliminary list, surely they know the 12-man roster by now? Airplane tickets have to be purchased at some point.

Good call on spotting the list earlier - this is pretty much what you said. I few of us have been harassing BBall Canada through emails and Twitter, so this might be to just placate us. I am sure they have an idea of the 12 man roster by now.

Overall I generally think this is a big improvement on the AmeriCup team and one that I think should be good enough to qualify if there is any sense of chemistry and decent coaching.
Of course this is the 24 man list - It will be interesting if any bigger names fall out for the 12 man roster.

Losing Nicholson hurts - but adding Bennett, both Scrubbs, and Ejim more than make up for it.

Khem Birch I now think was unavailable because he has an NBA contract and we now know (per Stein) Boucher (two-way contract) won't play when healthy either.

I think if Bennett can effectively play center in the G and has been our starting center in the PanAm games - he will be our starting C here. I think our Cs were Bennett and Bhullar at the PanAms?

Bhullar is a real wild card here and could provide some terrible mismatches for our opponents over short stretches. I hope he makes the final 12 and they figure out how to use him.

We had no depth up front at the AmeriCup but now with Trasolini and Klassen - two very under rated pros, we should be ok up front. Trasolini is probably a better player than Sacre right now if you ask me. Go look at their J-League stats.

I am very happy with the guards. I think Hanlan and XRM can be very effective here, but still worry about their youth and inconsistency. It seemed in the small sample size of the AmeriCup that one would have a great game and the other would disappear. Having Scrubb and Heslip there and much more depth upfront lessens the risk we'd face if they both had off games.

Kris Joseph is a big and surprising name, but I'd keep expectations low. He fills a weakness we have at SF (he might be our only true SF), but he has been a bit role player the last few years on average European teams. Good to see him back in the fold though and hopefully he surprises.

Still no real go-to scorers among the forwards, but allot of guys now that can do a little of everything. Maybe Bennett, Ejim, T. Scrubb, Pierre, Trasolini can all score by committee with the guards doing the heaving lifting.

Still allot of flak on the list that I hope we don't need to use (Kendall, Keane, Notice, Glaze, Ward, Friesen, Olashu, Best) but even then most of them can fill a roll in limited minutes.

Adika Peter-McNeilly is an interesting names and good to see here - he is having a great rookie season in Europe and is someone to watch. I don't know much about him.

My preferred 12 man line up:

Guards:
Phil Scrubb /XRM/ Hanlan / Heslip / Anderson

Forwards:
Ejim / T. Scrubb / Pierre / Joseph

Bigs:
Bennett / Bhullar / Trasolini

However I think Joel Anthony sneaks in there as a long term vet.

5 man starting line up? I'd go:
XRM
Hanlan
T. Scrubb
Ejim
Bennett

Hanlan and XRM both combo guards start at the 1/2 for consistency from the AmeriCup with Scrubb as the main guard off the bench. I'd heat check Heslip but limit his minutes drastically if he is not feeling it early.

I'd like T. Scrubb at the Olympic qualifiers in 2016. Do it all role player - solid defender. Hopefully there is some chemistry with Ejim from 2016 as well.

I like Pierre and Trasolini as the main forwards off the bench. And I'd like to see Bhullar get minutes - but I have no idea how they properly use him or even if he is remotely in shape.

I am fairly happy here considering the AmeriCup roster and knowing that AmeriCup was actually pretty decent (just had no prep time).

Hepcat
11-14-2017, 07:35 PM
I am sure they have an idea of the 12 man roster by now.

You are? On what basis? Basketball Canada looks to me to have been nothing but sloppy to this point.

:confused:

mojo13
11-14-2017, 08:55 PM
You are? On what basis? Basketball Canada looks to me to have been nothing but sloppy to this point.

:confused:


Well I am one of their biggest critics, but to play devils advocate....
This posted 24 man list is exactly the same as what JGX posted a week ago - which was posted on the FIBA Americas site as Canada's roster for an hour or two before it was taken down. That tells me that Canada had submitted this 24 man roster by the supposed deadline of Nov 6. but asked FIBA not to post it as they were not ready to make it public. Why? Who knows...for all we know it may be for competitive reasons as they don't want opponent time to prepare or scout tape on players. We have been hassling them with emails and Tweets and they may have loosened them up to release the 24 man roster. Perhaps they were just going to to role right into announcing the 12 man roster like the USA. Someone said the 12 man roster should be released later this week (Raptors Republic I think). Canada Basketball's communications may suck - but I don't think they are any less focused than most other countries behind the scene. We are among the most disadvantaged countries in this new process with all our best players in the NBA or Europe. The guys in Europe have a long way to go and communications with their clubs on their availability was/is likely strained. Countries like Mexico, Venezuela, PR and even ARG and BRA have most of their players in their domestic leagues, where it is much easier to communicate and pressure to release guys.

I can be quite critical of Basketball Canada but if this 24 man list is real and we expect to have the best 12 guys from this list - I think it is a good accomplishment by Team Canada putting together a very strong pool of players considering who is available (no NBA, No Euroleague, No G-League two way contracts).

Tell me who is missing from that 24 man pool that should (or can be there). Nicholson is the obvious one, but Chinese clubs have been spotty releasing guys. Sacre? Trasolini is probably better. Birch? Not available due to NBA contract. Bachynski or Boucher? Hurt. Maybe Long or Mulder in the G, or maybe Edwards but are they better than XRM / Hanlan / Scrubb / Heslip? (No, I say). Landry maybe? But he is not better than Klassen or Trasolini.

This is a pretty good list (maybe great) considering the situation.

JGX
11-15-2017, 02:27 AM
US officially named their roster:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2017/11/mwcq-players.aspx

Only four players from the AmeriCup roster, but Warney/Munford/Hearn were probably the best players on that team. Hilliard and CJ Williams are both on two-way contracts so unavailable. A little surprised that they would go with two rookies in Jefferson and Meeks.

I predict a couple NBLC or free agent players on the Canadian roster. At a minimum someone has to be the 11th and 12th man, is it really worth flying someone in from Europe or the Far East to sit on the bench for two games?

For the Americans...looks like all the Americas and European qualifiers will be available for streaming on ESPN3/WatchESPN.

Hepcat
11-15-2017, 03:58 PM
Tell me who is missing from that 24 man pool that should (or can be there).

I have no problem with the composition of the 24 man pool. My problem with Basketball Canada is twofold:

1. Basketball Canada derives a healthy portion of its funding from the government of Canada, i.e. the taxpayer. More than the barest minimum of communication with us the taxpayer is the least we should expect from the organization in return.

2. There's a game in Halifax on the 24th. A decent crowd would be nice to see, partially because it would raise funds for Basketball Canada thus helping to allay the need for taxpayer funding. Publicity would help draw a crowd. For Basketball Canada to have been more forthcoming about the content of the team and the background of the players would have been useful in this regard.

:mad:

JGX
11-16-2017, 01:40 AM
Dominican Republic narrows their list to 14:
http://www.basketdominicano.com/rd-reduce-a-14-su-listado-preliminar-para-la-primera-ventana/


Los armadores Gelvis Solano, Adris de León y Ronald Ramón, así como los tiradores Víctor Liz, Rigoberto Mendoza y Gerardo Suero, continúan en los planes de la Selección Nacional. Los delanteros Dagoberto Peña, Sadiel Rojas, M.J. Rhett, Edward Santana, Robert Glenn y Eulis Báez, además de los centros Eloy Vargas y Jonathan Araujo completan la preselección tricolor.

Lorenzo Mata getting impatient for Mexico to name their team:
https://twitter.com/RealMataLo14/status/929751203084304384

mojo13
11-17-2017, 05:59 PM
Canada announces final 12 man roster.
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/canada-announce-final-roster-for-first-window-of-americas-qualifiers


Joel Anthony
Centre
6'9"
Montreal, QC
Free Agent

Anthony Bennett
Forward
6'8"
Toronto, ON
Northern Arizona Suns (G-League)

Grandy Glaze
Centre
6'7"
Toronto, ON
St. John's Edge (NBL of Can)

Olivier Hanlan
Guard
6'4"
Aylmer, QC
Austin Spurs (G-League)

Brady Heslip
Guard
6'2"
Burlington, ON
Trabzonspor (Turkey)

Kaza Kajami-Keane
Guard
6'1"
Ajax, ON
Raptors 905 (G-League)

Owen Klassen
Centre
6'10"
Kingston, ON
PAOK (Greece)

Dyshawn Pierre
Forward
6'6"
Whitby, ON
Banco di Srd (Italy)

Xavier Rathan-Mayes
Guard
6'4"
Scarborough, ON
Westchester Knicks (G-League)

Phil Scrubb
Guard
6'3"
Richmond, B.C.
Fraport SKY (Germany)

Thomas Scrubb
Forward
6'6"
Richmond, B.C.
Scandone AV (Italy)

Marc Trasolini
Centre
6'9"
Vancouver, B.C.
Hokkaido L. (Japan)



Our best players seem to be XRM, P. Scrubb, Hanlan, and Bennett.
Then Heslip, Pierre, T. Scrubb, Trasolini and Klassen after that.

That is likely the bulk of the rotation and I can see us utilizing a good number of small ball lineups and pushing the pace.

Not bad all things considered. Melvin Ejim is the big loss for the 24 man pool - he is on a EuroCup team, so maybe that influenced his decision.

JGX
11-20-2017, 03:18 AM
Panama roster. Michael Hicks is 41 years old now, Lloreda and Munoz are both 37.


El equipo dirigido por el español de Manuel Hussain será liderado por Michael Hicks, Joel Muñoz, Carlos Javier Rodriguez, Jonathan King, Ernesto Oglivie, Jaime Lloreda, Jamaal Levy, Trevor Gaskins, Daniel King, Gary Forbes, Javier Carter, y Tony Bishop.

http://www.telemetro.com/deportes/baloncesto/Panama-Uruguay-eliminatoria-Mundial-Baloncesto_0_1082892154.html

Mojado
11-20-2017, 12:39 PM
Mexico is competing without the Europe-based players Pako Cruz and Alex Perez. Ayon and Gutierrez are injured.
Paul Stoll will be part of the team this time: https://www.esto.com.mx/316205-sin-europeos-doce-guerreros-da-su-convocatoria/

carlo
11-20-2017, 08:41 PM
Jonathan Holmes to replace Jarell Eddie in US team:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2017/11/mwcq-jonathan-holmes-added.aspx

Holmes started in the first three games he played at AmeriCup.

JGX
11-21-2017, 02:04 AM
Bahamas squad:

Lynden (LJ) Rose (Salt Lake Stars, G League)
Michael Carey (Charleville, France Pro B)
Abel Joseph
Michael Bain
Darshtyn Baker

Jonathan Fairell (ADA Blois, France Pro B)
Keno Burrows (Fos Provence, France Pro B)
Robert Nortmann (Windsor Express, Canada)
Torrington Cox
Shaquille Cleare (Pully Lausanne, Switzerland)
David Nesbitt (Paulistano, Brazil)
Livingston Munnings
Mark St. Fort

Dtown
11-24-2017, 12:50 AM
PR - USA first quarter. Hard to analyze easily with no commentary on ESPN, but Puerto Rico shot the lights out. Lets see if that holds up.

CKR13
11-24-2017, 01:08 AM
Need to close the gaps with them Puerto Rican shooters much quicker. 2nd quarter needs it or else PR will bury us with three pointers. Looking forward to that stingy and disruptive defense from USA.

Dtown
11-24-2017, 01:16 AM
2nd quarter was better for the US. Even snagged the lead briefly 39-38 PR.

Got to say, Puerto Rico actually does have a decent home court with Orlando. Props to those who showed up.

End Game Edit: Surprising tough/physical game. US X-team gets the win in a pretty fun game.

Another post game edit: I have to admit I thought Cuba was going to be the others' chew toy. But Cuba showed out against Mexico. Is Mexico worse than we thought? Is Cuba better than we thought?

Mojado
11-24-2017, 10:36 AM
Another post game edit: I have to admit I thought Cuba was going to be the others' chew toy. But Cuba showed out against Mexico. Is Mexico worse than we thought? Is Cuba better than we thought?

Cuba has a strong first five for some time now. They can't hold up the level of intensity through the whole game, that's all. Mexico isn't really that strong compared to past years. Relying way too much on Ayon, Cruz and Gutierrez which is a problem now and I see a blow-out coming on the weekend in favor of the US.

JGX
11-24-2017, 05:41 PM
Only saw the fourth quarter of the US game. Like the AmeriCup we were able to get good shots late in a close game, I was skeptical of Van Gundy when he was hired but he seems to know what he's doing.

JGX
11-25-2017, 01:27 AM
USVI with eight players leading the DR 71-70 after three quarters.

Dtown
11-25-2017, 01:37 AM
Dominican Republic's pulled away, up 8 with less than six remaining. Fairly predictable night so far.

Oddly enough I believe the US is the only team to win a 'road' game so far.

Dtown
11-26-2017, 10:19 PM
First Quarter: Excellent shooting from three leads to a US 25-12 lead.

CKR13
11-26-2017, 10:22 PM
I've never seen Jonathan Holmes shoot like that

CKR13
11-26-2017, 10:29 PM
Argentina's Gabriel Deck is crashing the boards like a madman vs Panama, up to an NT career high 14rebs and counting

Dtown
11-26-2017, 10:40 PM
2nd quarter: Mexico dominated most of the quarter but US finished strong, still up 11.

There was also an injury on the US side but without commentary I have no idea how bad it was.

edit: lol random commentary popping up.

3rd Quarter: US dominates and turns this into a route. 72-47

JGX
11-26-2017, 11:13 PM
edit: lol random commentary popping up.

Yeah, were they just announcing to no one for 2.5 quarters?

I think FIBA is actually supplying generic British guy (or Jeff Taylor) commentary for all the qualifiers, but it doesn't show up on the ESPN streams for some reason.

I'm guessing about 1500 fans in Greensboro, including a decent pro-Mexico contingent.

Dtown
11-26-2017, 11:22 PM
Yeah, were they just announcing to no one for 2.5 quarters?

I think FIBA is actually supplying generic British guy (or Jeff Taylor) commentary for all the qualifiers, but it doesn't show up on the ESPN streams for some reason.

I'm guessing about 1500 fans in Greensboro, including a decent pro-Mexico contingent.

We need to accept we're not going to have homecourt advantage (at least until the 2nd round) at best we'll have a neutral court like tonight. (Unless NBA guys show up in June, then it's a different beast)

usagre
11-26-2017, 11:26 PM
. (Unless NBA guys show up in June, then it's a different beast)

I think the chances of NBA players participating in this tournament are extremely slim.

Dtown
11-26-2017, 11:36 PM
I think the chances of NBA players participating in this tournament are extremely slim.

Probable, best case would be mid level to star level guys trying to audition for a potential olympics, but yeah that's doubtful.

Either way US beats Mexico in a route. 91-55. Biggest worry for the the US is that some of these guys might not be available next window do to call ups or finding jobs overseas.

mojo13
11-27-2017, 05:44 AM
I think the chances of NBA players participating in this tournament are extremely slim.

We are fully expecting NBA players for Canada in the June and September windows. Maybe not full turn out, but more than a few.

I think most other countries are too.

Why wouldn't the USA at least get developmental squad players?

CHBB
11-27-2017, 04:06 PM
Probable, best case would be mid level to star level guys trying to audition for a potential olympics, but yeah that's doubtful.

Either way US beats Mexico in a route. 91-55. Biggest worry for the the US is that some of these guys might not be available next window do to call ups or finding jobs overseas. Very real concern imo. Brown seems to just never find anywhere to stick around but Holmes is an energy guy, Amile is a versatile combo forward who hustles and is a natural leader, Sloan scores everywhere he goes, Mumford is always on the verge of a callup, to name a few.

They'll have to keep being creative with these selections. I would really like to see them use a guy like James Webb III though for example. He's an athletic, versatile D-League defender who can score in a variety of ways and has a nice stroke.

Imagine if we could add a legit seven footer too like for example former Nova big man Ochefu. He would flat out dominate most NTs down low.

usagre
11-27-2017, 04:28 PM
We are fully expecting NBA players for Canada in the June and September windows. Maybe not full turn out, but more than a few.

I think most other countries are too.

Why wouldn't the USA at least get developmental squad players?

I think it's not going to be as easy as people believe when it comes to players participating. It's very easy to just look at the dates and assume that since players are in their off seasons the are locks to participate. I just don't see guys getting together for a camp to play 2 games then shut it down again continue their offseason then restart it up in late August/September for another 2 games then shut it down once again before restarting it up for their regular seasons.
All that starting and stopping is a recipe for injury.

CHBB
11-27-2017, 04:50 PM
I think it's not going to be as easy as people believe when it comes to players participating. It's very easy to just look at the dates and assume that since players are in their off seasons the are locks to participate. I just don't see guys getting together for a camp to play 2 games then shut it down again continue their offseason then restart it up in late August/September for another 2 games then shut it down once again before restarting it up for their regular seasons.
All that starting and stopping is a recipe for injury. No kidding. Another reason why it's asinine to treat basketball like soccer.

mojo13
11-27-2017, 05:39 PM
I think it's not going to be as easy as people believe when it comes to players participating. It's very easy to just look at the dates and assume that since players are in their off seasons the are locks to participate. I just don't see guys getting together for a camp to play 2 games then shut it down again continue their offseason then restart it up in late August/September for another 2 games then shut it down once again before restarting it up for their regular seasons.
All that starting and stopping is a recipe for injury.

The June window is just a continuation from their seasons...they haven't shut down at that point and will still be in game shape (fatigue, injuries and free agency will rule some guys out of course). It is the same time frame as last years Olympics qualifiers which had solid (but far from full) NBA participation. Some guys were only a week or so removed from their playoffs ending. What's another two games - especially with the draw of one in front of their home crowd.

The Sept window is around the time guys are all playing in semi-pro summer leagues or running serious NBA level pick-up. Guys are ramping up to training camps and joining a camp for the national team and a couple games (again one in front of your home crowd) seems like it would appeal to certain guys.

I'd bet you Canada will have 4-5 NBA players added to their roster. Especially the guys who obviously care about the national team (CoJo, Olynyk, Powell, Thompson, Murray) Nicholson maybe too, plus maybe some EuroLeague guys like Pangos, Doornekmap etc.

We have 15-20 guys that would improve our squad - you cant tell me a third of those guys wouldn't show (Same with Spain, France, Serbia etc.). The US has about 200.

I guess we shall wait an see...

locdogjr
11-28-2017, 01:31 AM
Canada losing to DR?
Cool.......

JGX
11-28-2017, 02:11 AM
No defense from Canada tonight...Bennett and Rathan-Mayes were both horrible.

USVI and their three player/one coach bench holding on to a slim lead over the Bahamas at the moment.

CHBB
11-28-2017, 02:27 AM
Wow. I know Canada doesn't have its big names but Jesus. A DR team without legit stars and you can't take it to them? Canada has by far the most talent outside of the US and has absolutely nothing to show for it over five years after its big names joined. You shouldn't need Wiggins or Jamal Murray to accomplish something real.

JGX
11-28-2017, 02:30 AM
I think it's not going to be as easy as people believe when it comes to players participating. It's very easy to just look at the dates and assume that since players are in their off seasons the are locks to participate. I just don't see guys getting together for a camp to play 2 games then shut it down again continue their offseason then restart it up in late August/September for another 2 games then shut it down once again before restarting it up for their regular seasons.
All that starting and stopping is a recipe for injury.

On top of that, it's just not the sort of thing USA Basketball does. For years they could have sent a "development" team to the FIBA-Americas tournament and instead they opted not to participate at all. Even in 2005 when we were starting to build the current program under Colangelo, we sent non-NBA players to the World Cup qualifiers and hoped for the best. The only time I can remember us assembling a team of NBA players that wasn't the "first team" was the Goodwill Games where we almost lost to Brazil. I think they have decided that the qualifiers are for non-NBA players and that is what they will stick with. Maybe in June/July we see some Euro-based players, since the G League guys will be 2-3 months past the end of their season, and in September we see some free agents looking for training camp invites like in the AmeriCup, but established NBA players seem unlikely unless we come to the last window desperate for wins.

I'd bet on a reasonable turnout of NBA players for other countries though. Not everyone can expect to win without their stars.

JGX
11-28-2017, 02:53 AM
USVI wins 93-85. Looked like a TBT or (non-NBA) summer league game.

Dtown
11-28-2017, 03:07 AM
The good news for Canada is that the Bahamas and USVI don't look like much, and the 2nd group they're paired with doesn't look great either outside Brazil

The bad news for Canada is they have a nasty habit of dropping games we're they're favored in must win situations...

mojo13
11-28-2017, 04:04 AM
Wow. I know Canada doesn't have its big names but Jesus. A DR team without legit stars and you can't take it to them? Canada has by far the most talent outside of the US and has absolutely nothing to show for it over five years after its big names joined. You shouldn't need Wiggins or Jamal Murray to accomplish something real.

I have nothing to argue with there. My goodness what an awful game.
Pretty much the entire team was awful, with complete no shows from Bennett and Rathan Maynes.

The talent is there and they can't play much worse. So there's that at least.

JGX
12-07-2017, 02:02 PM
February US games will be played in Santa Cruz:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2017/12/mwcq-santa-cruz-announcement.aspx

ja.he
12-20-2017, 05:56 AM
i think with results of the 1st window, the shoo-in in american continent are: usa, argentina, brazil and mexico. puerto rico, canada, dominican republic and venezuela will toss up for the final 3 spots. other teams like uruguay, us virgin islands, and panama have little to no chance of making the cut. no offense meant but outside of those 8 teams i have mentioned, no other teams in the americas that are competitive as those 8. this means that fiba-americas are a little bit shallow compare to europe that even teams of netherlands or iceland could give other teams from around the world a fight and can actually win.

for me, usa, argentina, brazil, mexico, dr, puerto rico, canada and venezuela are poised to make the world cup.

mojo13
01-15-2018, 05:32 PM
Anyone hear anything about locations for the next round?
I only see that the USA has announced Santa Cruz as the site for its two games.

Specifically - I was wondering the status of USVI's home game against Canada. USVI had to switch their Nov. home game with DR to an away game in DR due to hurricane damage. Are they still unable to host a home game?

mojo13
01-26-2018, 09:15 PM
Anyone hear anything about locations for the next round?
I only see that the USA has announced Santa Cruz as the site for its two games.

Specifically - I was wondering the status of USVI's home game against Canada. USVI had to switch their Nov. home game with DR to an away game in DR due to hurricane damage. Are they still unable to host a home game?


Sounding like Canada vs. USVI will be relocated to Nassau, Bahamas. Makes sense as Bahamas is already hosting Canada.

I guess this can be considered a "neutral sight game" - and should be beneficial to Canada.

CKR13
02-01-2018, 11:59 PM
Venezuela 22 player pool for 2nd window of the Americas Qualifiers
http://acn.com.ve/venezuela-baloncesto-22-jugadores-fiba/

mojo13
02-06-2018, 07:44 PM
Venezuela 22 player pool for 2nd window of the Americas Qualifiers
http://acn.com.ve/venezuela-baloncesto-22-jugadores-fiba/


Brazil out with their 13 man shortlist already:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/brazil-announce-shortlist-leandrinho-and-varejao-lead-the-squad

Arthur Pecos
Rafael Luz
Leandrinho Barbosa
Yago dos Santos
Vitor Benite
Alex Garcia
Lucas Cipolini
Leo Meindl
Rafael Ferreira de Sousa
Lucas Dias
Rafael Hettsheimeir
Anderson Varejão
Guilherme Bento

mojo13
02-06-2018, 07:45 PM
Chile names 12 man too:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/chile-name-12-players-for-games-at-venezuela-brazil

JGX
02-08-2018, 07:35 PM
USA names fourteen players, only three returning from November:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/02/mwcq-feb-training-roster-announcement.aspx

Because of the All-Star break, they will have some time for a training camp.Thirteen of the players (presumably excluding free agent Semaj Christon) will face Mexico in the G League International Challenge in LA on the 18th, and the roster for the qualifiers will be decided a few days later.

Dtown
02-09-2018, 05:42 PM
USA names fourteen players, only three returning from November:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/02/mwcq-feb-training-roster-announcement.aspx

Because of the All-Star break, they will have some time for a training camp.Thirteen of the players (presumably excluding free agent Semaj Christon) will face Mexico in the G League International Challenge in LA on the 18th, and the roster for the qualifiers will be decided a few days later.

hmm so much for continuity, but I guess that's going to be theme going forward.

JGX
02-12-2018, 02:02 AM
Fraport Skyliners coach Gordon Herbert will coach Canada in the February window since Roy Rana is unavailable:
http://basketball.ca/en/news-article/slug-igcvw7

JGX
02-12-2018, 02:10 AM
Uruguay named their squad for February...basically the same team as November but with a key addition in Bruno Fitipaldo:


Gustavo Barrera, Luciano Parodi, Santiago Vidal, Federico Pereiras, Bruno Fitipaldo, Juan Ducasse, Sebastián Vázquez, Hernando Cáceres, Mathías Calfani, Gonzalo Iglesias, Esteban Batista, Hatila Passo, Joaquín Borrallo y Agustín Da Costa.

https://www.ovaciondigital.com.uy/basquetbol/convocados-enfrentar-argentina-paraguay.html

mojo13
02-18-2018, 12:04 AM
5 day before tip off versus the USVi and not a word from Canada Basketball on the player pool or roster. Not a peep about anything. What a joke of a federation.

Supposedly training camp started today from what I can glean from internet rumors. You’d think the Canadian media would give a crap. But they don’t.

We don’t deserve to be in the World Cup and no wonder we get crappy turnout from our players. Canada Basketball doesn’t do shit for them.

Roofman
02-18-2018, 12:21 AM
To Mojo

Is it that Canada Basketball don't publicise this or simply that the Canadian media doesn't care if top players aren't playing? We definitely have that problem in Australia.

CKR13
02-18-2018, 03:51 AM
I like the concept of the G League International Showcase that adds some FIBA flavor into the annual ASW.
https://www.foxsports.com/san-diego/story/usa-to-take-on-mexico-in-first-ever-nba-g-league-international-challenge-this-sunday-021618

mojo13
02-18-2018, 03:50 PM
To Mojo

Is it that Canada Basketball don't publicise this or simply that the Canadian media doesn't care if top players aren't playing? We definitely have that problem in Australia.

It is both really. Canada Basketball has not published a thing and the media doesnt say a word about it. No questioning. No concern. Once the roster is published the Basketball writers will publish an actical or two, but so far not a word anywhere about the feb window which starts in a few days.

This new system is screwed up and has people even less engaged if possible. The media is more concerned about the current hockey season first, the Olympics and the NBA all star weekend.

Lots of press on the Canadians participating in the All star weekend but not a word about these Fiba games or Team Canada.

CKR13
02-18-2018, 10:04 PM
USA G-League NT offense so far: Push the pace, drop the ball to a trailing shooter and repeat. Those looks for Aaron Harrison are almost automatic.

ja.he
02-19-2018, 02:45 AM
It is both really. Canada Basketball has not published a thing and the media doesnt say a word about it. No questioning. No concern. Once the roster is published the Basketball writers will publish an actical or two, but so far not a word anywhere about the feb window which starts in a few days.

This new system is screwed up and has people even less engaged if possible. The media is more concerned about the current hockey season first, the Olympics and the NBA all star weekend.

Lots of press on the Canadians participating in the All star weekend but not a word about these Fiba games or Team Canada.

Your country has a mispriority with regards to sports. Neglecting the 2nd most popular and fast growing sport in the world in exchange of a sport that only countries with snow and ice know?

CKR13
02-19-2018, 11:07 PM
Canada NT for FIBA 2nd Window Qualifiers for the Americas

Jermaine Anderson
Joel Anthony
Anthony Bennett
Aaron Best
Melvin Ejim
Brady Heslip
Kaza Kajami-Keane
Kyle Landry
Adika Peter-McNeilly
Dyshawn Pierre
Thomas Scrubb
Jevohn Sheppard

mojo13
02-20-2018, 12:30 AM
Canada NT for FIBA 2nd Window Qualifiers for the Americas

Jermaine Anderson
Joel Anthony
Anthony Bennett
Aaron Best
Melvin Ejim
Brady Heslip
Kaza Kajami-Keane
Kyle Landry
Adika Peter-McNeilly
Dyshawn Pierre
Thomas Scrubb
Jevohn Sheppard


This is not comforting. There is some real talent there with Ejim, Pierre and Bennett. But very sub par guards, limited outside shooting (besides Heslip) and no decent big in the paint.
Joel Anthony's corpse should be no where near this team. Anderson and Sheppard are not much better.

Man FIBA sure screwed the pooch with this new format. I can't think of a worse way to do this.

mojo13
02-20-2018, 12:31 AM
Your country has a mispriority with regards to sports. Neglecting the 2nd most popular and fast growing sport in the world in exchange of a sport that only countries with snow and ice know?

Hey everyone...Captain Obvious over here....

Dtown
02-20-2018, 01:40 AM
Thought this was pretty cool. Never heard of retiring a national team jersey, wonder if Ginobli will be next?

http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/argentine-national-team-to-retire-nocioni%E2%80%99s-golden-generation-jersey

ja.he
02-20-2018, 01:51 AM
Hey everyone...Captain Obvious over here....

I know it. My point is that give basketball some attention. Corporate sponsors, imo, would love to think the idea of beating usa that will be a world headline. That will probably elevate canada's reputation MORE in the world of sports. Just think of argentina.

mangangalakal
02-20-2018, 06:36 AM
Thought this was pretty cool. Never heard of retiring a national team jersey, wonder if Ginobli will be next?

http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/argentine-national-team-to-retire-nocioni%E2%80%99s-golden-generation-jersey

Interesting that of all the Golden Generation members, his jersey was retired first.

Dtown
02-20-2018, 11:10 AM
Interesting that of all the Golden Generation members, his jersey was retired first.

credit to CKR13 who found this link https://sportando.basketball/en/national-teams/world-cup/265364/argentina-to-retire-andres-nocioni-s-no13-jersey.html Ginobli will get his retired in Summer. Which makes sense, since he's still playing in the NBA they probably wanted to wait when he had the time off.

locdogjr
02-20-2018, 01:29 PM
This new FIBA format sucks. Especially for any team with lots of NBA players.

Canada Basketball is a joke too, the sport is rising so quickly in Canada almost in spite of their efforts it seems. There needs to be so much more done and it doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult to make a big push!

JGX
02-20-2018, 02:57 PM
Bahamas preview article:
http://www.tribune242.com/news/2018/feb/19/fiba-bahamas-host-canada-dominican-republic/


We are going to be pretty good. I think we will have a better defensive team and a more oiled offensive team,” said Bowleg, who is expected to be assisted by Wayde Watson, Norris Bain and Quinton ‘Three Ounce’ Hall. “We have persons who I feel can put the ball in the hole. We will be adding Eugene Bain and Johnathan Fairwell will get a chance to play, so we will have some players who can score. We will also have CJ Hinds, who led the CBC in scoring a few times, so we have a few guys to go along with Keno Burrows, who was leading us in scoring in the last two games. We will have more options to go too, which will be good for us in the long run.”

#Bowleg said they will also be looking at Leon Cooper and Shavarro Cooper coming in and making a difference with players like Robert Northman, who can defend the ball and give the team a better chance defensively so they can slow down their opponents and then go after their shots.

#“I like our chances right now with this group that we are trying to put together,” Bowleg stressed.

#Over the next few days, Bowleg said they will have 15 players in practice trying to make the final 12-man roster before they take to the court against the Dominican Republic on Thursday. The other players not mentioned are Michael Carey Jr, Able Joseph, Michael Bain Jr, David Nesbitt, Christopher Turnquest, Kentwon Smith, Franco Miller, Marvin Gray and Lynden Rose.

Steadysoul
02-20-2018, 05:06 PM
This new FIBA format sucks. Especially for any team with lots of NBA players.

Canada Basketball is a joke too, the sport is rising so quickly in Canada almost in spite of their efforts it seems. There needs to be so much more done and it doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult to make a big push!

They should have just had the year post olympics be a break year and move the Zone championships back a year so they're all back to back.

JGX
02-22-2018, 10:20 PM
USVI again with an eight-man roster and one coach but giving Canada a good game. Amazed that this is actually being televised on ESPNU.

CKR13
02-22-2018, 10:37 PM
Heslip's shooting has been impeccable for Canada tonight. Also, Ejim is an all-around performer tonight as Canada is pulling away.

JGX
02-22-2018, 10:51 PM
Feel the passion
https://i.imgur.com/kmtqPn2.jpg

Hepcat
02-22-2018, 11:19 PM
Your country has a mispriority with regards to sports. Neglecting the 2nd most popular and fast growing sport in the world in exchange of a sport that only countries with snow and ice know?

That's because we have ice and snow over here! By rights we can therefore ignore what's going on in all those other places .

:p

CKR13
02-22-2018, 11:53 PM
Too many rushed shots by Brazil against an active man to man employed by Colombia in the first quarter. As Brazil settled to a rhythm with Barbosa and Cipolini clicking, Brazil broke the game open in the 3rd. Also Varejao making his presence felt inside.

sinobball
02-23-2018, 06:03 AM
Feel the passion
https://i.imgur.com/kmtqPn2.jpg
Does "audio difficulties" mean there was no sound either?

Why were the games played in the Bahamas for this window?

ja.he
02-23-2018, 06:14 AM
That's because we have ice and snow over here! By rights we can therefore ignore what's going on in all those other places .

:p

I'm no longer going to argue. To each is to own. We have different preference.

ja.he
02-23-2018, 06:15 AM
Does "audio difficulties" mean there was no sound either?

Why were the games played in the Bahamas for this window?

Where do you watch the game?

Hepcat
02-23-2018, 02:29 PM
Why did Thomas Scrubb not play for Canada yesterday? Does he have a minor nagging injury?

:confused:

Dtown
02-24-2018, 04:48 AM
thank goodness Cuba is a good prep game, US look bad out there.

Federoy
02-24-2018, 07:03 AM
We got the requisite win over a weak Cuban team, but I've got major concerns moving forward. Way too many outside shots against Cuba, who weren't exactly fiercely defending the basket. Our trademark use to be defensive pressure which led to offensive production. Now our play has become perimeter oriented, and if the shots aren't falling and we're not collecting offensive boards, we grind to a halt. The turnovers and sloppy play didn't bother me as much, but the offense looked really really clunky. Granted, Van Gundy has only worked with these guys for a week, but there had better be some marked improvement by Monday night or Puerto Rico will walk away with the win.

Federoy
02-24-2018, 07:05 AM
Feel the passion
https://i.imgur.com/kmtqPn2.jpg

God, I hate this format.

Dtown
02-26-2018, 02:24 AM
God, I hate this format.

I'll be fair to FIBA, when it works it's actually kind of cool. 10,000+ for Brazil's game.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW6yCv5XcAUxDdq.jpg:large

JGX
02-26-2018, 06:04 AM
I'll be fair to FIBA, when it works it's actually kind of cool. 10,000+ for Brazil's game.


The North American games are probably the worst of all the zones...badly shorthanded teams and limited intensity in a lot of the games. The other zones seem okay if you overlook all the missing players.

Federoy
02-26-2018, 06:54 AM
I'll be fair to FIBA, when it works it's actually kind of cool. 10,000+ for Brazil's game.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW6yCv5XcAUxDdq.jpg:large

That is impressive. I'd be nice if we could duplicate that kind of support in North America. FIBA desperately wants the sort of support FIFA receives from its qualifying rounds, but basketball isn't built that way. It's a game of rhythm, and it works best in a tournament format where games are played consecutively, not drawn out over months like these qualification phases. I get that FIBA wanted to give the top tier pros the summers off, but to relegate these qualifying periods during the NBA and Euroleague's regular and post-season is counterintuitive, with the result being that some big name countries (Croatia comes to mind) might get left out of the World Cup altogether.

Dtown
02-26-2018, 11:20 AM
I actually love the home and home aspect, and you see it in the countries like Sweden or Japan. It is something definitely FIBA should encourage. They should have just ran it from July to September. Seriously, would 12 games spread out over 3 months, really been that grueling? Especially when you can change your roster every game?

Federoy
02-27-2018, 04:39 AM
I actually love the home and home aspect, and you see it in the countries like Sweden or Japan. It is something definitely FIBA should encourage. They should have just ran it from July to September. Seriously, would 12 games spread out over 3 months, really been that grueling? Especially when you can change your roster every game?

I agree. The window should've been a lot shorter.

Federoy
02-27-2018, 04:44 AM
The US is executing a lot better in the PR game than versus Cuba...8 of 15 from three so far, late in the first half. I gotta eat my words a bit. The arena in Santa Cruz looks nearly full (on a Monday night, no less). Awesome to see the fan support.

Federoy
02-27-2018, 06:17 AM
The US nearly coughed up a 22 point lead in the second half, but hung on in the end as PR ran out of gas. The shot selection and TOs down the stretch was atrocious for the US, but PR ended the game 1-7 on FGs and that was just enough for the US to rebuild a manageable lead in the waning minutes. Great game and good atmosphere!

Dtown
02-27-2018, 11:10 AM
The US nearly coughed up a 22 point lead in the second half, but hung on in the end as PR ran out of gas. The shot selection and TOs down the stretch was atrocious for the US, but PR ended the game 1-7 on FGs and that was just enough for the US to rebuild a manageable lead in the waning minutes. Great game and good atmosphere!

Pity it was on so late, no chance for me to watch it live, though I think espn does have the replay. Either way it sounds like a good win, qualifies us for the next round, and removes a lot of drama should we close out with a win against Mexico in June (I'm pretty sure the Cuba game will be meaningless by the time we play them.) If we're able to start 4-0 in the second round with tie breakers over two teams, it basically comes down to win your home games and you're in.

mojo13
02-28-2018, 05:38 PM
Pity it was on so late, no chance for me to watch it live, though I think espn does have the replay. Either way it sounds like a good win, qualifies us for the next round, and removes a lot of drama should we close out with a win against Mexico in June (I'm pretty sure the Cuba game will be meaningless by the time we play them.) If we're able to start 4-0 in the second round with tie breakers over two teams, it basically comes down to win your home games and you're in.


First - the USA can easily start 6-0 in the 2nd round as all games carry to the next round.
Second - do you hear anything about NBA guys showing up for June/July and Sept? The USA will have an endless supply of offseason reinforcements to choose from.
We are are hoping for meaningful NBA reinforcements with Canada.

usagre
02-28-2018, 07:37 PM
First - the USA can easily start 6-0 in the 2nd round as all games carry to the next round.
Second - do you hear anything about NBA guys showing up for June/July and Sept? The USA will have an endless supply of offseason reinforcements to choose from.
We are are hoping for meaningful NBA reinforcements with Canada.

I would place the odds at 99% against any NBA players playing for team USA in the summer. Qualification is a formality without them so I don’t see it happening.

mojo13
02-28-2018, 08:53 PM
I would place the odds at 99% against any NBA players playing for team USA in the summer. Qualification is a formality without them so I don’t see it happening.

So USA Basketball doesn't want an opportunity for any of the following:
- Have a showcase event on home soil featuring NBA players in hopes to sell out a stadium and get associated revenue? Or are they both away games? Even if an away game they could share in gate receipts if they are bringing big name NBA guys to say Mexico City or something.
- A chance to get some (if not all) top guys together for practice/training?
- A chance to give playing time and/or a chance to done a USA jersey to the up and coming "Development Team" guys - or for it to be an audition for the top team?

99% chance is a strong take....

usagre
02-28-2018, 09:19 PM
So USA Basketball doesn't want an opportunity for any of the following:
- Have a showcase event on home soil featuring NBA players in hopes to sell out a stadium and get associated revenue? Or are they both away games? Even if an away game they could share in gate receipts if they are bringing big name NBA guys to say Mexico City or something.
- A chance to get some (if not all) top guys together for practice/training?
- A chance to give playing time and/or a chance to done a USA jersey to the up and coming "Development Team" guys - or for it to be an audition for the top team?

99% chance is a strong take....

Here’s why I think you can basically bet the farm that they won’t participate.
Firstly look at it historically. The 2017 Americup team last summer had no NBA players.
2015 summer they only had a three day Las Vegas minicamp which was basically a joke.
Secondly the late June/early July 2 game window are realistically meaningless games since the USA has already advanced to round 2. So just a couple of weeks after the Nba Finals there is no way I can see a group of NBA players going through a short minicamp to play in two such games. And theres no chance for the middle of September 2 game window either since training camps will just about open.
Put it all together and I think 99% is pretty accurate. But when it comes to the actual tournament in September 2019 I give it a 99% chance that they obviously will participate.

Dtown
02-28-2018, 11:52 PM
I don't know about NBA players, but College, Euroleague guys, and even better G League will be available in June so you can probably cobble together a better team than we saw this window.

JGX
03-01-2018, 05:20 PM
Secondly the late June/early July 2 game window are realistically meaningless games since the USA has already advanced to round 2..

The results carry over to the second stage, so the games are still meaningful. But I agree with you about the unlikelihood of seeing NBA players. Maybe a few fringe guys that are looking to catch on somewhere next season.

mojo13
03-01-2018, 05:39 PM
The results carry over to the second stage, so the games are still meaningful. But I agree with you about the unlikelihood of seeing NBA players. Maybe a few fringe guys that are looking to catch on somewhere next season.

Well Canada is going to bring out the heavy guns. I am fully expecting a starting line up of:
Cory Joseph
Jamal Murray
Andrew Wiggins
Trey Lyles
Kelly Olynyk

With nothing but NBA players and a couple EuroLeague guys filling out the roster.

Probably....ok maybe...ok, ok, probably not...

In all seriousness we have two games at home in Toronto and Ottawa. I think Basketball Canada is looking at these as marquee events to generate fan interest and make some money in a big stadium. I do expect at least 3-5 NBA reinforcements and hopefully a few of our most key guys like Murray, Olynyk, Wiggins, Joseph, Powell. I am sure some of the lesser NBA players and EuroLeague guys will show too for a chance to play at home.

Federoy
03-05-2018, 04:00 AM
I would place the odds at 99% against any NBA players playing for team USA in the summer. Qualification is a formality without them so I don’t see it happening.

There's a better chance of it snowing in downtown LA in June than NBA players suiting up this summer. If this is what FIBA envisioned; B and C level talent teams competing during inconvenient windows to qualify for the World Cup, than their mission is being accomplished spectacularly. By if they had hoped for a FIFA-style star studded event with the Ronaldos and Iniestas of the world of basketball competing, than they've successfully created a donkey pageant.

Federoy
03-05-2018, 04:19 AM
At this point, it's hard to gage the commitment level of US NBA players. I know Curry is on record as saying he'd like to participate, but a year is a long way away in professional basketball. I think what we'll get representing Team USA is mixture of NBA vets, up-and-coming players, and glue guys, not unlike what we've seen in the last two WCs. I just don't see FIBA cajoling elite US NBA players to assemble for the tournament in the way FIFA does with Brazil, Spain or Argentina.

usagre
03-05-2018, 06:06 PM
At this point, it's hard to gage the commitment level of US NBA players. I know Curry is on record as saying he'd like to participate, but a year is a long way away in professional basketball. I think what we'll get representing Team USA is mixture of NBA vets, up-and-coming players, and glue guys, not unlike what we've seen in the last two WCs. I just don't see FIBA cajoling elite US NBA players to assemble for the tournament in the way FIFA does with Brazil, Spain or Argentina.

I completely agree. No matter what they call the tournament it is not the Olympics and will never come close to being viewed as such by the American player or the media. You’ll keep getting B and C teams like the United States has always sent beginning in 1994. There’s nothing wrong with that in my opinion, you’ll have the A team in the primary international tournament (Olympics) and a B or C team in the secondary tournament(World Cup). I am realistic and I can live with that.

ja.he
03-06-2018, 03:18 AM
I completely agree. No matter what they call the tournament it is not the Olympics and will never come close to being viewed as such by the American player or the media. You’ll keep getting B and C teams like the United States has always sent beginning in 1994. There’s nothing wrong with that in my opinion, you’ll have the A team in the primary international tournament (Olympics) and a B or C team in the secondary tournament(World Cup). I am realistic and I can live with that.

For me, it should be world cup>olympics. IMO, basketball is only one of many sports events in the olympics. Basketball results can be easily overshadowed by the results of other sports events. FIBA World Cup should be given more importance because it is really the highest competition for basketball as it name suggests.

usagre
03-06-2018, 03:28 PM
For me, it should be world cup>olympics. IMO, basketball is only one of many sports events in the olympics. Basketball results can be easily overshadowed by the results of other sports events. FIBA World Cup should be given more importance because it is really the highest competition for basketball as it name suggests.

I agree that it should be, and in a perfect world it would be. But from an American point of view it will never happen. The World Championships have no history in our country meanwhile the Olympic tournament has been huge since its inception.
You can't just artificially create the importance and the interest. I would even argue that if the Olympics went to an age requirement thereby trying to elevate the status of the Fiba World Cup, top American players still wouldn't participate in it.

ja.he
03-07-2018, 12:07 AM
I agree that it should be, and in a perfect world it would be. But from an American point of view it will never happen. The World Championships have no history in our country meanwhile the Olympic tournament has been huge since its inception.
You can't just artificially create the importance and the interest. I would even argue that if the Olympics went to an age requirement thereby trying to elevate the status of the Fiba World Cup, top American players still wouldn't participate in it.

Well, US just needs another game from greece or finished worse than 6th to realize how important the tournament is.

usagre
03-07-2018, 02:33 AM
Well, US just needs another game from greece or finished worse than 6th to realize how important the tournament is.

Actually you are completely wrong about that. Those things happened and it didn’t change the mindset at all when it comes to that tournament. The 2014 and especially 2010 teams that followed those losses were clearly “B” teams. The United States went 16 years from ‘94 to ‘10 without winning this tournament and what did they do in response in 2010 ? They sent a very young team in which probably only one or two players max could have made their best possible A team. Results are irrelevant when it comes to the importance of this tournament for the United States.

Dtown
03-07-2018, 11:31 AM
Actually you are completely wrong about that. Those things happened and it didn’t change the mindset at all when it comes to that tournament. The 2014 and especially 2010 teams that followed those losses were clearly “B” teams. The United States went 16 years from ‘94 to ‘10 without winning this tournament and what did they do in response in 2010 ? They sent a very young team in which probably only one or two players max could have made their best possible A team. Results are irrelevant when it comes to the importance of this tournament for the United States.


While I agree 1998-2004 didn't convince the US to send A teams I would say it did change the mindset. From 1998 -2002 The US had degraded to sending D and F teams to the World Cup. The US didn't so much say 'we're going to send our best and brightest' as we're going to put at least a little effort in putting these teams together. The 2006, while very young, still had a ton of rookie talent on it.

Also it helped that the US realized, 'hey if we win the world cup, we don't have to participate in any other qualifying nonsense'.

Funny thing is, this new format might lead to WORSE US teams participating in the World Cup, since they no longer have to win the tournament to get in the Olympics they just have to finish among the best two Americas teams.

usagre
03-07-2018, 03:37 PM
While I agree 1998-2004 didn't convince the US to send A teams I would say it did change the mindset. From 1998 -2002 The US had degraded to sending D and F teams to the World Cup. The US didn't so much say 'we're going to send our best and brightest' as we're going to put at least a little effort in putting these teams together. The 2006, while very young, still had a ton of rookie talent on it.

Also it helped that the US realized, 'hey if we win the world cup, we don't have to participate in any other qualifying nonsense'.

Funny thing is, this new format might lead to WORSE US teams participating in the World Cup, since they no longer have to win the tournament to get in the Olympics they just have to finish among the best two Americas teams.

Excellent points. The 1998 team that was supposed to represent the United States in Athens was similar to the ‘94 team, a clear B team but the NBA lockout led to them not participating. The ‘02 team was clearly the weakest version the US has ever sent, a C team in my opinion.

mojo13
03-07-2018, 06:29 PM
While I agree 1998-2004 didn't convince the US to send A teams I would say it did change the mindset. From 1998 -2002 The US had degraded to sending D and F teams to the World Cup. The US didn't so much say 'we're going to send our best and brightest' as we're going to put at least a little effort in putting these teams together. The 2006, while very young, still had a ton of rookie talent on it.

Also it helped that the US realized, 'hey if we win the world cup, we don't have to participate in any other qualifying nonsense'.

Funny thing is, this new format might lead to WORSE US teams participating in the World Cup, since they no longer have to win the tournament to get in the Olympics they just have to finish among the best two Americas teams.

But that isn't a given. A crap team and a Round of 16 or quarterfinal flop out could open them up to missing the Olympics (all it takes is one game). I can see a scenario where two of Brazil, Argentina, Canada or DR finish better.

Personally I think the attention the Word Cup receives in the US is far greater than it was in the late 90s and early 2000s - but still clearly well below the Olympics. You have been seeing pretty decent WC teams of late from the US even though they are far from getting their best players. You actually often see a better team if lesser overall talent. Often 2 or 3 stars surrounded by excellent role players.


The 2014 WC team was pretty stacked with Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Klay Thompson, Demarcus Cousins, James Harden and Anthony Davis. You probably only need three of those guys with very solid guys around them that know their roles to win it easily (Kenneth Faried was beastly that tournament).

usagre
03-07-2018, 06:47 PM
Personally I think the attention the Word Cup receives in the US is far greater than it was in the late 90s and early 2000s - but still clearly well below the Olympics. You have been seeing pretty decent WC teams of late from the US even though they are far from getting their best players. You actually often see a better team if lesser overall talent. Often 2 or 3 stars surrounded by excellent role players.


The 2014 WC team was pretty stacked with Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Klay Thompson, Demarcus Cousins, James Harden and Anthony Davis. You probably only need three of those guys with very solid guys around them that know their roles to win it easily (Kenneth Faried was beastly that tournament).

Actually they didn’t watch then and don’t watch now when it comes to the World Cup. Only 900,000 Americans watched the final in 2010. With the size of the US you do the math. 2014 viewership wasn’t much better with a slight increase to over a million. I also disagree in that the 1994 world’s actually had more buzz than recently because the idea of Nba players was still somewhat of a novelty. I do agree that sometimes the actual teams do play better but I was just grading and discussing the talent levels. And finally always consider who the players were at the time they played on those teams and not who they would become a year or two later. When it comes to players at such young ages a year or two of nba experience means a lifetime when it comes to the progress of their game. So you can’t just look at the names on the roster.

mojo13
03-07-2018, 09:33 PM
Actually they didn’t watch then and don’t watch now when it comes to the World Cup. Only 900,000 Americans watched the final in 2010. With the size of the US you do the math. 2014 viewership wasn’t much better with a slight increase to over a million. I also disagree in that the 1994 world’s actually had more buzz than recently because the idea of Nba players was still somewhat of a novelty. I do agree that sometimes the actual teams do play better but I was just grading and discussing the talent levels. And finally always consider who the players were at the time they played on those teams and not who they would become a year or two later. When it comes to players at such young ages a year or two of nba experience means a lifetime when it comes to the progress of their game. So you can’t just look at the names on the roster.

I am with you in concept....2014 was many moons ago now and there where past teams that had inexperienced rookies who became All-NBA players many years later But at the 2014 time frame (end of 13/14 season) or in the following season (14/15) Steph Curry, Anthony Davis and James Harden were 1st Team All NBA players. Klay, Kyrie and Cousins were 2nd or 3rd Team All NBA. They were far from crappy players at the time.
Again - it probably would have only taken three of them with good supporting players and they would have cruised to a championship.

mojo13
05-29-2018, 05:47 AM
As predicted, Canada is bringing out the big guns for their home games this summer. Or to a 18 man training camp at least.
http://www.basketball.ca/3x3-canada-quest-p150398%26language=en/news-article/slug-ugw09h

Most of the big names (except Wiggins and Lyles). 8 NBA players and most of our best non NBA guys. Pangos, Ejim, Phil Scrubb, Andrew Nicholson. Stuaskas and Ennis missing too as they are both FAs, but they are no better than Pangos And Phil Scrubb.

Federoy
06-01-2018, 04:54 AM
Actually they didn’t watch then and don’t watch now when it comes to the World Cup. Only 900,000 Americans watched the final in 2010. With the size of the US you do the math. 2014 viewership wasn’t much better with a slight increase to over a million. I also disagree in that the 1994 world’s actually had more buzz than recently because the idea of Nba players was still somewhat of a novelty. I do agree that sometimes the actual teams do play better but I was just grading and discussing the talent levels. And finally always consider who the players were at the time they played on those teams and not who they would become a year or two later. When it comes to players at such young ages a year or two of nba experience means a lifetime when it comes to the progress of their game. So you can’t just look at the names on the roster.

The lack of buzz is a function of the NBA and FIBA not working together to help promote the event. I remember back in 2002, the marketing for the WC in Indianapolis was damn near non-existent, with the results being an attendance disaster (albeit, the 2002 team wasn't exactly star studded either). FIFA is light years ahead of FIBA when in comes to promoting. FIFA has made it clear that the World Cup is the pinnacle of their sport, so the advertising, sponsorship and marketing revenue flow in because the commitments and partnerships between FIFA and the majority of professional leagues globally is there. We don't see that in basketball (at least from an American perspective) because FIBA and the NBA have competing interests and, unlike football, neither organization has evolved together to work out scheduling conflicts, insurance issues, licensing fees or other business impasses. Unless the US gets beat regularly, the 2012 US Olympic team will be last great squad we'll see for a while.

JGX
06-05-2018, 01:27 AM
Panama team for the June window, I like inclusion of the nicknames:

1. Trevor Gaskins
2. Carlos Javier “C.J.” Rodríguez
3. Eugenio “Yuyín” Luzcando
4. Joel Muñoz
5. Iverson Molinar
6. Daniel Girón
7. Michael Hicks
8. Tony Bishop
9. Pablo Rivas
10. Alejandro Grant
11. Ernesto “Mauro” Oglivie
12. Jamaal Levy
13. Akil Mitchell
14. Javier Carter
15. José Jaime “La Mole” Lloreda Ferrón
16. Josimar “La Barba” Ayarza
17. Jonathan Salazar

http://fepaba.com.pa/wp/index.php/2018/06/04/la-seleccion-nacional-mayor-de-panama-inicia-hoy-sus-entrenamientos/

usagre
06-05-2018, 02:32 AM
The lack of buzz is a function of the NBA and FIBA not working together to help promote the event. I remember back in 2002, the marketing for the WC in Indianapolis was damn near non-existent, with the results being an attendance disaster (albeit, the 2002 team wasn't exactly star studded either). FIFA is light years ahead of FIBA when in comes to promoting. FIFA has made it clear that the World Cup is the pinnacle of their sport, so the advertising, sponsorship and marketing revenue flow in because the commitments and partnerships between FIFA and the majority of professional leagues globally is there. We don't see that in basketball (at least from an American perspective) because FIBA and the NBA have competing interests and, unlike football, neither organization has evolved together to work out scheduling conflicts, insurance issues, licensing fees or other business impasses. Unless the US gets beat regularly, the 2012 US Olympic team will be last great squad we'll see for a while.

The NBA title will always be the pinnacle of the sport for Americans unless by some miracle another league can be comparable in quality of players. You can’t have 10 of the best players in the sport (team USA) on the same squad and competing against other teams and somehow elevate that competition to most coveted status in my opinion. The Fiba World Cup can do that because the top teams are comparable.

2002 world’s were doomed to fail in my opinion due to the lack of star power that you mentioned but also factor in that the USA had not lost a single game up until that point and an air of invincibility also hurt the tournament.

I completely agree that you have to draw the line with the 2012 Olympic team and along with the ‘08, ‘96, ‘92 and to a lesser degree the ‘94 team, unless some urgency is created by losing, you will get really good teams like ‘14 and ‘16 but not the best of the best.

mojo13
06-11-2018, 07:43 PM
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/06/mwcq-training-roster.aspx

USA 14 man roster pool announced. Those saying there would be no NBA players for the USA were correct.

Mostly returning G players from the first two windows and the AmeriCup last summer, with a few new adds sprinkled in.

Dtown
06-11-2018, 08:42 PM
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/06/mwcq-training-roster.aspx

USA 14 man roster pool announced. Those saying there would be no NBA players for the USA were correct.

Mostly returning G players from the first two windows and the AmeriCup last summer, with a few new adds sprinkled in.

At this point I wouldn't expect anything different unless the US was actually facing peril of not qualifying. 9-0 since the Americup with G leaguers, so no real reason to change.

CHBB
06-20-2018, 04:42 PM
ESPN needs to lose all international basketball broadcast rights. I fully blame them for not promoting the World Cup in the country where the game was invented! Look at how great of a job Fox is doing with FIFA despite not having as many channels. Give the rights to them and NBC. Or even CBS and NBC.

They need to make the Olympics age-restricted and fix this ridiculous qualification system. Being so scared of FIFA has completely screwed up the schedule. It used to be perfect, with the main events two years apart.

And stop feuding with Euroleague already! Stupid pissing contest.

We've lost the chance to showcase probably the most deep pool of strong national teams in history because of these morons. Canada, Greece, Italy, Russia, etc were all very strong teams from 2012-2016 and we only saw most of them once in a major event! Way to grow the sport.

CHBB
06-20-2018, 05:48 PM
As for the differences between FIFA and FIBA, I have a few thoughts.

Nobody ever mentions the draft and draft rights and the way it hurts the international game. It allows NBA teams to stockpile the best world talent and choose where they go.

What needs to happen is a team loses its rights to a player if they don't sign that player within a year of being drafted. And let players be drafted out of high school.

Second, end the wage scale for unsigned rookies a year after a player is drafted. This would allow the market to determine who gets paid where.

Third, allow teams to loan out players after signing them to their rookie contracts but limit the amount of times a team can do that. Definitely don't allow it for NBA vets.

The NBA's protecting teams from themselves has been costing the game for years now, as has its insistence on turning the joke that is the G-League into anything other than a developmental minor league. Those players would be so much better off playing in real leagues.


Think about it... the biggest news in soccer is these huge transfers that happen every year. It also promotes the global game as opposed to international leagues being places for fringe players and seen as developmental leagues for the international players whose rights NBA teams hoard.

Dtown
06-20-2018, 09:03 PM
Hmm I agree and disagree with a lot of these points. So I'll try to break it down.

ESPN: This is a bit harsh on ESPN. The FIFA world cup was already a ratings monster before FOX got the rights to it (and most soccer fans think Fox does a shit job compared to NBC and yes ESPN) so you can't really compare the two. Also there's the bigger problem of how do you convince the American public the US isn't going to dominate and win, probably without LeBron or Durant? So long as that's the case it's a tough sell.

Right now they view FIBA as for the hardcore fan and, to their credit, they made every game available for free throughout the continental championships, and first two windows, even if they didn't advertise.

The only thing I can be mad at is charging for ESPN + but it seems all the networks are going that way.

FIBA: Pretty much agree entirely. They want to be FIFA so bad, but have none of the power, money, resources to make it work. So their attempts at fixing internationals has flopped.

NBA: Love it hate it, the only goal for the NBA is advancing the NBA. European leagues are competition and the NBA would never cut itself to help them. Though even without the draft the NBA would still stockpile talent because it has the money and prestige other leagues dream of.

In terms of transfers/free agency, the NBA is still grabbing headlines in the off season, we're being buried in Kawhi and LeBron talk already. Similar to how Kyrie drama dominated stories the year before, and Durant prior to that. Their focus is exporting that to basketball fans world wide, not letting other leagues in on that.

The big thing is, as mentioned above FIBA is not FIFA and has 0 power to do anything about it.

CHBB
06-20-2018, 09:46 PM
See, the thing is that the NBA is in fact hurting not just the global game but itself.

It is allowing these primadonna, overrated and unproven players to hold teams hostage at both the pro and college level. If you remove the ability for teams to hoard draft rights and sign players to rookie-scale contacts for years after drafting them, you will force all parties to be accountable. No longer can these kids who think they're future NBA stars hold teams hostage at any level because teams won't want to risk it. This gives college coaches the leverage to say "Oh, you want to be a primadonna and act like it's all about you? Then I'll cut you. Good luck getting drafted when teams know you have a lot of growing up to do.". It allows the genuinely ready players to start their careers right away, and it stops NBA teams from overpaying for players who clearly don't deserve their deals. It also stops teams from being able to stockpile young talent they have no intention of playing. This system would force all sides to make smart choices. There is after all still a salary cap.

And think of what the infusion of cash from a loan to a foreign club would do for small market teams, while ensuring they can focus on winning while their young prospects get real experience in a real league with real pressure. Taking away draft rights if a player isn't signed within a year will also mean more competition to sign standout foreign players who are ready to play, which means a bidding war which will help foreign clubs a lot more than simply getting a buyout for their biggest standout draft picks will. It will also once again put the emphasis on bringing in the best players rather than those who simply have "potential", which will greatly benefit the proven players who go overlooked every year and bounce around entirely due to their lower draft stock.

And lastly it will help these foreign players who don't get a chance to prove themselves in the right NBA situation until years later if at all, which ensures that they won't be able to really maximize their potential with a stint in the NBA until years later, if they ever do. It will be similar to the way soccer teams bring in the best young players as soon as they're ready and either it works out or it doesn't. That wouldn't happen if they were allowed to draft and then hoard their rights.

You misunderstood my last point. The point of that was that these transfers and looking out for who could be the next one force soccer fans the world over to pay attention to more than just their league, and it causes them to watch these international competitions to see who might be worth a future big contract. As opposed to the way NBA fans can completely ignore everything else as if it doesn't even exist. And think about the way this will make international basketball even more popular outside the US. Having genuine potential future superstars playing for a season for their club will have a similar effect to the one that happens to the colleges they one and done at currently. And the level of play will force these kids to either grew up or wash out, ensuring the level of competition rises even more. This will in turn make their own homegrown players that much better.

CHBB
06-20-2018, 10:00 PM
As for ESPN, I obviously completely disagree. The World Cup was not a big deal in the US until they jammed it down our throats in 2010. As for NBC handling soccer, well unlike ESPN they actually promoted both the MLS and the Premier League and turned both into huge draws in the US that ESPN then had to overpay for.

ESPN on the other hand does everything it can to downplay any league or teams or event that it doesn't view as important. It did zero promotion for the World Cup in '10 or '14. Zero. And it only showed US games.

ESPN will force-feed and promote whatever it sees as the most beneficial to it and downplay everything else. It does it in every sport, barely even bothering to cover everything whose rights it doesn't view as a priority. This only changed because NBC, CBS, and Fox Sports forced their hand by outbidding for and then promoting the many leagues and events ESPN undervalued.

Dtown
06-20-2018, 11:49 PM
See, the thing is that the NBA is in fact hurting not just the global game but itself.

It is allowing these primadonna, overrated and unproven players to hold teams hostage at both the pro and college level. If you remove the ability for teams to hoard draft rights and sign players to rookie-scale contacts for years after drafting them, you will force all parties to be accountable. No longer can these kids who think they're future NBA stars hold teams hostage at any level because teams won't want to risk it. This gives college coaches the leverage to say "Oh, you want to be a primadonna and act like it's all about you? Then I'll cut you. Good luck getting drafted when teams know you have a lot of growing up to do.". It allows the genuinely ready players to start their careers right away, and it stops NBA teams from overpaying for players who clearly don't deserve their deals. It also stops teams from being able to stockpile young talent they have no intention of playing. This system would force all sides to make smart choices. There is after all still a salary cap.

Um rookie scale contracts and draft rights have nothing to do with College. Those don't come into play until after a player's drafted. Currently a college coach still has plenty of leverage, look Jarren Jackson and Tom Izzo over at Michigan State. Either way if a guy has a high ceiling what they do in college doesn't really hurt they're draft stock (see Mo Bamba)

On the NBA side of things, what unproven players hold NBA teams hostage? The only players that can fully demand anything are the PROVEN players, that's the whole point of rookie scale contracts they're lower so if a player is a bust the team can move on with little penalty.

Also I suppose you mean stockpile players compared to world wide leagues? I can't think of single player in the NBA that was benched that a team had no intention of playing that wouldn't be riding the bench somewhere else (the only exception due to massive disciplinary issues or injury.)



And think of what the infusion of cash from a loan to a foreign club would do for small market teams, while ensuring they can focus on winning while their young prospects get real experience in a real league with real pressure. Taking away draft rights if a player isn't signed within a year will also mean more competition to sign standout foreign players who are ready to play, which means a bidding war which will help foreign clubs a lot more than simply getting a buyout for their biggest standout draft picks will. It will also once again put the emphasis on bringing in the best players rather than those who simply have "potential", which will greatly benefit the proven players who go overlooked every year and bounce around entirely due to their lower draft stock.

Well first, if a small market team has a high draft pick. They are going to play them. That's assured as high draft picks = more attention, more attention means more people coming to games, more appearances on tv etc. Given that they already have a high draft pick the chances are they weren't winning anyway and loan money (not sure how this would work with the cap) wouldn't help much. So if they're going to lose, and they want this kid to develop, then they would more than likely want that development to happen against NBA players. There are rare exceptions like Darko, but that's usually the reserve for hard busts.

Second: How often is a player not signed within a year? I think I've only seen this happen with overseas players not coming in the season they were drafted which is pretty rare. Players are far more likely to announce they won't play for a team (again see Mo Bamba) and that team will move on.



And lastly it will help these foreign players who don't get a chance to prove themselves in the right NBA situation until years later if at all, which ensures that they won't be able to really maximize their potential with a stint in the NBA until years later, if they ever do. It will be similar to the way soccer teams bring in the best young players as soon as they're ready and either it works out or it doesn't. That wouldn't happen if they were allowed to draft and then hoard their rights.

This about the only situation where I think a loan situation could work, imo.


You misunderstood my last point. The point of that was that these transfers and looking out for who could be the next one force soccer fans the world over to pay attention to more than just their league, and it causes them to watch these international competitions to see who might be worth a future big contract. As opposed to the way NBA fans can completely ignore everything else as if it doesn't even exist. And think about the way this will make international basketball even more popular outside the US. Having genuine potential future superstars playing for a season for their club will have a similar effect to the one that happens to the colleges they one and done at currently. And the level of play will force these kids to either grew up or wash out, ensuring the level of competition rises even more. This will in turn make their own homegrown players that much better.

I think the problem is, from the player's standpoint, at least with US born potential superstars, going to Europe seems a much more complicated path to success than one and done with college, or if the one and done was done away with just going to the pros. I imagine most players would balk at it harder than a one and done, meaning the Players Association would never okay it.

From the team standpoint, again a bad team with a potential superstar is going to play that potential superstar and gains nothing loaning him out. Any player that needs polishing they would rather go to the GLeague where it's easier to monitor their progress, assess their growth and have instant back and forth communication, and bring them back up to the pros without any delay.

In terms of international basketball, you can make the case that international basketball is better because the NBA got people in other countries to fall in love with their league and take up basketball. From the NBA's perspective this is already working (and with streaming NBA is no more available than it ever was) and it's a far better strategy going forward.

Dtown
06-21-2018, 12:01 AM
As for ESPN, I obviously completely disagree. The World Cup was not a big deal in the US until they jammed it down our throats in 2010. As for NBC handling soccer, well unlike ESPN they actually promoted both the MLS and the Premier League and turned both into huge draws in the US that ESPN then had to overpay for.

ESPN on the other hand does everything it can to downplay any league or teams or event that it doesn't view as important. It did zero promotion for the World Cup in '10 or '14. Zero. And it only showed US games.

ESPN will force-feed and promote whatever it sees as the most beneficial to it and downplay everything else. It does it in every sport, barely even bothering to cover everything whose rights it doesn't view as a priority. This only changed because NBC, CBS, and Fox Sports forced their hand by outbidding for and then promoting the many leagues and events ESPN undervalued.


I won't defend ESPN too much as I don't like them enough to bother. I would just say be careful what you wish for in sending it to other networks. More to the point that none of the other stations have put up much of a fight for it (the new contract was made in 2017), when live sport is in high demand right now, is telling.

JGX
06-21-2018, 01:50 AM
Puerto Rico calls up 14 players:

Jose Juan Barea
Gary Browne
Gian Clavell
Gilberto Clavell
Ramon Clemente
Tyler Davis
Jorge Bryan Diaz
Chris Gastón
David Huertas
Javier Mojica
Christopher Ortiz
Angel Rodriguez
Ricardo Sanchez
Angel Vassallo

I suspect Davis will be doing NBA summer league.

CHBB
06-21-2018, 03:55 AM
Um rookie scale contracts and draft rights have nothing to do with College. Those don't come into play until after a player's drafted. Currently a college coach still has plenty of leverage, look Jarren Jackson and Tom Izzo over at Michigan State. Either way if a guy has a high ceiling what they do in college doesn't really hurt they're draft stock (see Mo Bamba)

On the NBA side of things, what unproven players hold NBA teams hostage? The only players that can fully demand anything are the PROVEN players, that's the whole point of rookie scale contracts they're lower so if a player is a bust the team can move on with little penalty.

Also I suppose you mean stockpile players compared to world wide leagues? I can't think of single player in the NBA that was benched that a team had no intention of playing that wouldn't be riding the bench somewhere else (the only exception due to massive disciplinary issues or injury.)




Well first, if a small market team has a high draft pick. They are going to play them. That's assured as high draft picks = more attention, more attention means more people coming to games, more appearances on tv etc. Given that they already have a high draft pick the chances are they weren't winning anyway and loan money (not sure how this would work with the cap) wouldn't help much. So if they're going to lose, and they want this kid to develop, then they would more than likely want that development to happen against NBA players. There are rare exceptions like Darko, but that's usually the reserve for hard busts.

Second: How often is a player not signed within a year? I think I've only seen this happen with overseas players not coming in the season they were drafted which is pretty rare. Players are far more likely to announce they won't play for a team (again see Mo Bamba) and that team will move on.




This about the only situation where I think a loan situation could work, imo.



I think the problem is, from the player's standpoint, at least with US born potential superstars, going to Europe seems a much more complicated path to success than one and done with college, or if the one and done was done away with just going to the pros. I imagine most players would balk at it harder than a one and done, meaning the Players Association would never okay it.

From the team standpoint, again a bad team with a potential superstar is going to play that potential superstar and gains nothing loaning him out. Any player that needs polishing they would rather go to the GLeague where it's easier to monitor their progress, assess their growth and have instant back and forth communication, and bring them back up to the pros without any delay.

In terms of international basketball, you can make the case that international basketball is better because the NBA got people in other countries to fall in love with their league and take up basketball. From the NBA's perspective this is already working (and with streaming NBA is no more available than it ever was) and it's a far better strategy going forward. Completely wrong. The one and done rule has made it so any player who thinks he's a future star can delude himself into thinking he'd be drafted out of high school if not for that rule. He can then basically have his coach over a barrel because no coach wants to lose these high profile kids. This is entirely because of the one and done rule and other rules designed to give NBA teams leverage that in reality artificially inflate and deflate the market for players.

Completely wrong again. The NBA has been held hostage by the likes of John Wall, Kyrie, Paul George, Jamal Murray, D'Angelo Russell, Zach LaVine and so many other players who were basically handed franchises when they had no business having that. This is entirely because teams draft these guys based on their draft stock and the fact that they hold their rights, which they see as a major advantage. You take that away and give those players the chance to not sign and play overseas for a year then be free to sign with any NBA team for however much, teams will wise up and not waste their money on them until they've proven they're worth it.

I can think of plenty from the past few drafts alone so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Rozier, Mudiay, Malik Beasley, Kevon Looney, Noah Vonleh, James Young... I mean I could go on and on.

See again, you're thinking entirely based on these asinine rules. You don't ever build a winning organization by handing the keys to kids who aren't ready. It's never been done and never will be. Then these players basically hold these teams hostage later on because they have no choice but to extend them. If they're really that good then let them prove it rather than being handed everything. And again, these players are either not playing at all unless in the G-League (which is an absolute joke) or being handed a starting job they didn't earn. That is not a recipe for success.

Again, you're only thinking based on the current rules. Players can't do it and have no incentive to. But taking away the scale after a year and allowing them to sign wherever is plenty of incentive. Smart players will do this, as will stupid players who think they're a lot better than they are. Either way, the market will balance things out.

And here's the thing.... very few players have a shot in hell of making the pros out of high school. The fact that every year we have twenty plus kids deluding themselves into thinking they could've turned pro is a huge part of the problem. I completely disagree that the Union wouldn't be strongly for this. It would benefit them tremendously. It would give them all the freedom they are so desperate for, and put the emphasis back on proven players.

And that's exactly the problem. The G-League will never be legitimate. It is one of the worst leagues in the entire world in terms of play and will only get worse. Teams who want to win would rather their players be developed by winning organizations in important leagues. They will come back with experience and maturity they wouldn't have otherwise gotten.

I completely disagree. That was true before but now leagues around the world are very impressive in their own right. This would completely change the landscape while improving the NBA going forward.


Now as for how this would all work...

Basically, a player would either sign the year he's drafted and be like every current draft pick or he'd choose to not sign and wait out a year in which he will have a chance to play elsewhere and improve his market for when he decides to sign with an NBA team, if ever. If a player signs with a stronger foreign organization, he'll most likely have an NBA buyout or some other kind of exclusive rights agreement that will then benefit the foreign club he's signed to by creating a bidding war for his services rather than having one team who can sign him. Once he signs, that NBA team will own his Bird rights just like with any other drafted player so they would still have the advantage when it comes time to extend the player.

The players then could be loaned by their NBA team a total of three times within five years of being drafted/signed or before their 25th birthday, and every loan would be for a full season. This would not alleviate the player's cap hit though. The money wouldn't be included in cap space. It would merely be money the team makes, which would not be subject to revenue sharing. This would also allow foreign clubs with enough cash flow to seriously bolster their rosters, and will make teams not waste such high picks on project players because they won't want to pay millions per year for a kid who isn't able to contribute in a real way for them or risk drafting a kid who won't sign.

These things will allow the market to decide how much a player gets paid rather than it being based entirely on hype. And like I said, it will seriously boost both foreign leagues and foreign players in the eyes of NBA fans because there will be even more potential NBA stars playing abroad.

AlexKalvin
06-21-2018, 01:35 PM
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CHBB
06-21-2018, 08:12 PM
Anyway... moving on...

Who does everybody think has the best shot to join the likely entrants of US, Brazil, and Argentina in China? Canada and Mexico have to be favorites imo but Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, and the lower-ranked Latin American teams can't be completely counted out -as we saw with the Virgin Islands in 2016.

Dtown
06-21-2018, 08:58 PM
I think Uruguay and Puerto Rico fight it out for the third guaranteed spot in group E, with US and Argentina comfortably qualifying.

While in the other group, I see Brazil winning it and Venezuela, Canada and the Dominican, fighting for two spots. Though I think group F will probably have the better 4th place team because it's bit more even.

I don't give much of a shot to Mexico, they're going to be the under dog hosting the US and playing in Puerto Rico next window. If they lose both they'd be 2-4 going into the next group and I don't see the recovering from that.

CHBB
06-21-2018, 10:17 PM
That would be pretty amazing if Uruguay made the field. As for Canada/Venezuela/DR, if Canada doesn't make it out of those three then I think we can officially label them a disappointment and unlikely to change that anytime soon. Even if DR has Towns, Canada should easily advance over both of those teams.

JGX
06-22-2018, 02:12 AM
Updated Canadian camp roster:
http://www.basketball.ca/en/news-article/senior-mens-national-team-june-2018-training-camp-roster-announc

Dominican Republic and the US will play two closed-door games in Houston (also Dominican roster):
http://eldia.com.do/rd-sostendra-amistosos-con-estados-unidos-para-clasificatorios-a-china/

Panama roster, nice addition in Akil Mitchell:
https://www.tvmax-9.com/baloncesto/Seleccion-panamena-baloncesto-viajar-Argentina_0_5058994113.html

CHBB
06-22-2018, 04:30 AM
The one thing Canada has is excellent stretch bigs in Nicholson and Bennett. Nicholson is a pure scorer. Good shot blocking and athleticism, and Hanlan is imo a very underrated player who never really got a real shot at the NBA level. Solid team. They have no excuse not to win these games.

mojo13
06-22-2018, 09:21 PM
The one thing Canada has is excellent stretch bigs in Nicholson and Bennett. Nicholson is a pure scorer. Good shot blocking and athleticism, and Hanlan is imo a very underrated player who never really got a real shot at the NBA level. Solid team. They have no excuse not to win these games.


Canada kicks off a two warm up game series against China tonight in Vancouver.

Not sure if it is stremed anywhere, but will try to post a box score.

I believe some NBA players like Cory Joseph and Khem Birch are not expected to play these exhibition games.


In my mind a final 12 would look something like this:

Guards/Wings:
Cory Joseph
Phil Scrubb
Olivier Hanlan
R.J. Barrett
Brady Heslip
Dillon Brooks
Tommy Scrubb

Bigs:
Melvin Ejim
Khem Birch
Andrew Nicholson (or Anthony Bennett)
Kelly Olynyk
Dwight Powell


Not a bad team - and yes, we shouldn't have an excuse...but hey...Blame Canada.

mojo13
06-22-2018, 10:44 PM
You'll be able to watch tonight's Canada vs. China at http://canadabasketball.tv beginning at 7:30 PM PT.

JGX
06-26-2018, 12:44 AM
Bahamas roster featuring Buddy Hield:


Sacramento Kings guard Buddy Hield will headline the roster for the third window of the Americas Group qualifier as the Bahamas gets set to take on the US Virgin Islands on June 28 and the Dominican Republic on July 2 in Puerto Rico.

#Other current professional players on the roster include Jaraun "Kino" Burrows (FOS Provence Basket - French B), Michael Carey Jr (Etoile -French B), Zane Knowles (Etoile - French B), Kadeem Coleby (Akita, Japan), Shaquille Cleare (LNG - Switzerland), Lynden Rose of the NBA G-League's Salt Lake City Stars and G-League draftee Danrad 'Chicken' Knowles.

#Team Bahamas will also feature recent NCAA Division I graduates Lourawls "Tum Tum" Nairn Jr (Michigan State), Dwight Coleby (Western Kentucky) and current Division I players Jaron Cornish (Stony Brook) and Travis Munnings (ULM Warhawks).

http://www.tribune242.com/news/2018/jun/25/buddy-to-headline-roster-for-americas-world-cup/?news=

CHBB
06-26-2018, 02:04 AM
Having Buddy Buckets could be a game-changer. He's probably second only to RJ Barrett (if he really is second) out of the two guards in this zone from outside the US.

mojo13
06-28-2018, 10:56 PM
Canadian 12 man Roster Announced
http://basketball.ca/en/news-article/roster-announced-for-fridays-fiba-basketball-world-cup-2019-amer


R.J. Barrett
Anthony Bennett
Khem Birch
Dillon Brooks
Melvin Ejim
Brady Heslip
Cory Joseph
Andrew Nembhard
Kelly Olynyk
Dwight Powell
Phil Scrubb
Tommy Scrubb


Solid.

Straight forward
06-28-2018, 11:51 PM
Canadian 12 man Roster Announced
http://basketball.ca/en/news-article/roster-announced-for-fridays-fiba-basketball-world-cup-2019-amer


R.J. Barrett
Anthony Bennett
Khem Birch
Dillon Brooks
Melvin Ejim
Brady Heslip
Cory Joseph
Andrew Nembhard
Kelly Olynyk
Dwight Powell
Phil Scrubb
Tommy Scrubb


Solid.

No Pangos?

CHBB
06-28-2018, 11:59 PM
USVI takes down Bahamas.

Dtown
06-29-2018, 01:24 AM
Puerto Rico in a tight fight with Cuba.

Fairly sure that was the worst quarter any team USA has ever had. Though I'm open to being proven wrong.

45-28, at half. 2nd quarter was better, but that's not really saying anything.

locdogjr
06-29-2018, 02:31 AM
No Pangos?

Pretty sure Pangos is in contract neogtiations.

Dtown
06-29-2018, 02:51 AM
Well that's more like it. Van Gundy at halftime was probably must see. 55-51 Mexico, anyone's game going into the 4th.

Federoy
06-29-2018, 03:08 AM
Well that's more like it. Van Gundy at halftime was probably must see. 55-51 Mexico, anyone's game going into the 4th.

I had a feeling this would be the US's bump in the road game. The Mexicans have upgraded their roster since we last met, and they always were a well coached group with great chemistry. At this point, getting to the second round is what's important.

Dtown
06-29-2018, 03:17 AM
I had a feeling this would be the US's bump in the road game. The Mexicans have upgraded their roster since we last met, and they always were a well coached group with great chemistry. At this point, getting to the second round is what's important.

talking with a minute left, and it looks like Mexico's gonna win. Figured if we lost this round would be at Mexico. Important thing is beat up on Cuba on Sunday. Even with this loss we own the tie breaker on Mexico with the 36 pt beatdown in November.

Mexico/Puerto Rico will definitely be worth a watch on Sunday.

Edit: Alright that's game, congrats to Mexico. Technically the first team since Greece 2006 to beat us in a Sr. Men's National team game...technically...:rolleyes:

Federoy
06-29-2018, 03:26 AM
FUN FACTS: Heading into this game, non-NBA US Senior National Teams had won 12 straight, a program record for non-NBA teams and the longest winning streak for non-NBA players in 20 years (Canada was the last team to defeat the US at the 2015 Pan American Games). The US is now 7-2 against Mexico in the professional era, with their only previous loss coming in 2011 at the Pan American Games in Guadalajara, Mexico. The USA falls to 3-2 against Mexico all-time on Mexican soil. The US's last victory came in 1989 at the Tournament of the Americas in Mexico City. The US's next opponent, Cuba, hasn't hosted an American team since the 1991 Pan American Games.

Federoy
06-29-2018, 03:33 AM
talking with a minute left, and it looks like Mexico's gonna win. Figured if we lost this round would be at Mexico. Important thing is beat up on Cuba on Sunday. Even with this loss we own the tie breaker on Mexico with the 36 pt beatdown in November.

Mexico/Puerto Rico will definitely be worth a watch on Sunday.

Edit: Alright that's game, congrats to Mexico. Technically the first team since Greece 2006 to beat us in a Sr. Men's National team game...technically...:rolleyes:

Unfortunately I didn't get to see the game, but I imagine it probably went like so many of our losses go...jacking up untimely 3s, getting broken down on half-court defense, and struggling to find offensive options...does that sum it up or was there a new twist? I've got tremendous respect for the Mexicans. Their program has made leaps and bounds over the past 7-8 years and they actually have a respectable record against some of the best in the Americas. You're right, MEX vs. PUR is setting up to be a heavy weight fight. I don't expect Cuba to give us much resistance even though they made things interesting against PR for a little while.

CHBB
06-29-2018, 03:59 AM
I had a feeling this would happen. Great win for Mexico. Now they need to take care of business again.

We always add these terrible ball-dominant combo guards who belong nowhere near the NBA (Caruso, McKinney-Jones). Funny thing is I like some of our additions in the frontcourt and the addition of scoring machine Thornton. It's a shame he can't get exposure on ESPN the way guys like Drew II did but I think he'll be in Summer League.

mojo13
06-29-2018, 05:40 AM
Pretty sure Pangos is in contract neogtiations.

Ya pretty sure Pangos is technically unsigned with Barcelona at this moment. They are trying to finalize a deal. He is also getting married in a couple weeks. That could be a factor.

Pangos was on our original 18 man roster but not on the camp roster that came out a couple weeks later.

Dtown
06-29-2018, 10:56 AM
Unfortunately I didn't get to see the game, but I imagine it probably went like so many of our losses go...jacking up untimely 3s, getting broken down on half-court defense, and struggling to find offensive options...does that sum it up or was there a new twist? I've got tremendous respect for the Mexicans. Their program has made leaps and bounds over the past 7-8 years and they actually have a respectable record against some of the best in the Americas. You're right, MEX vs. PUR is setting up to be a heavy weight fight. I don't expect Cuba to give us much resistance even though they made things interesting against PR for a little while.

The big thing with this game vs. some of others was the absolute god awful start. Mexico went off on a 20-0 run to start the game, under FIBA and the quicker games, that's an absolute monster of a deficit to overcome. Factor in raucous crowd and the game was almost won in the first few minutes.

Federoy
06-29-2018, 06:28 PM
The big thing with this game vs. some of others was the absolute god awful start. Mexico went off on a 20-0 run to start the game, under FIBA and the quicker games, that's an absolute monster of a deficit to overcome. Factor in raucous crowd and the game was almost won in the first few minutes.

Even with a G-League roster, being down 0-20 should never happen. They've already made it to the next round, so qualifying is not the concern...but it bothers me that this team, who've been practicing and playing together for at least the last two stages, can't play better team ball. It says some unflattering things about this team: how the team is constructed, poor basketball IQ of some players, did they take the competition seriously enough, or perhaps Van Gundy's rotations weren't great... The U-18 team two weeks ago played brilliantly from a team perspective (they could've just out-athleticized everyone and still won, but they played together to get results), so it begs the question: why can't grown professionals play at the same level?

Dtown
06-29-2018, 08:00 PM
I feel this team definitely needed a warm up game, it was clear they got better as the game went on, but were utterly unprepared for a motivated Mexico to start.

It's a lesson they'll have to remember when they inevitably take trips to Argentina and Uruguay.

Federoy
06-30-2018, 04:10 AM
I feel this team definitely needed a warm up game, it was clear they got better as the game went on, but were utterly unprepared for a motivated Mexico to start.

It's a lesson they'll have to remember when they inevitably take trips to Argentina and Uruguay.

I guess they played a scrimmage against the Dominican Rep., but they looked equally as terrible in their game against Canada, so apparently neither team benefitted. The points you made were spot on; getting down by 20 in the faster FIBA games is like instant defeat. They need to play 1000% better against Argentina and Uruguay on the road (and at home), or they'll be taking some Ls.

CHBB
06-30-2018, 09:54 AM
Well what do you expect when they keep selecting point guards who have never at any level showed they care about winning or playing the right way?

Dtown
06-30-2018, 01:33 PM
I guess they played a scrimmage against the Dominican Rep., but they looked equally as terrible in their game against Canada, so apparently neither team benefitted. The points you made were spot on; getting down by 20 in the faster FIBA games is like instant defeat. They need to play 1000% better against Argentina and Uruguay on the road (and at home), or they'll be taking some Ls.

Personally I've already mentally chalked @Argentina and @Uruguay as losses. Now this doesn't fully matter so long as they beat Cuba and defend their home court, but it's the nature of the beast so long as we're sending G leaguers.

CHBB
07-01-2018, 08:32 PM
Brazil lost to Venezuela on Friday and Canada absolutely beat down on the Dominican Republic.

Dtown
07-01-2018, 08:47 PM
US up 13 at halftime, I'd complain about this group, but it's hard to get mad if they win since they can be replaced in September.

US wins comfortably to go to 5-1 and top their group.

Puerto Rico - Mexico

and

Argentina - Uruguay

should be worthwhile

JGX
07-02-2018, 12:55 AM
Great crowd for this PR-Mexico game. Mexico killing themselves at the line late. Eddie Casiano does a lot of coaching in English.

If I'm understanding the schedule correctly, the US has these games in the second round:

Sep 14: Uruguay
Sep 17: at Panama
Nov 29: at Argentina
Dec 2: at Uruguay
Feb 22: Panama
Feb 25: Argentina

Three out of the first four on the road will certainly put them under some pressure. Uruguay and Panama are weaker than Puerto Rico and Mexico, so they should be okay, but it just takes one bad loss to change things.

Dtown
07-02-2018, 12:57 AM
Great crowd for this PR-Mexico game. Mexico killing themselves at the line late. Eddie Casiano does a lot of coaching in English.

If I'm understanding the schedule correctly, the US has these games in the second round:

Sep 14: Uruguay
Sep 17: at Panama
Nov 29: at Argentina
Dec 2: at Uruguay
Feb 22: Panama
Feb 25: Argentina

Three out of the first four on the road will certainly put them under some pressure.

the good news about those road games is they happen during the season, so weakened rosters.

Mexico/Puerto Rico was close to the FIBA ideal. Great crowd, two teams that were fairly close to their A listers, close game and some intensity. Too bad they can't all be like that.

JGX
07-03-2018, 02:13 AM
DR came back from 77-66 down with 3:15 left to take an 80-79 lead against the Bahamas, but the Bahamas answered with four straight points and didn't quite have enough time to blow it again, winning 83-82. Huge loss for the Dominicans.

Federoy
07-03-2018, 04:38 AM
Great crowd for this PR-Mexico game. Mexico killing themselves at the line late. Eddie Casiano does a lot of coaching in English.

If I'm understanding the schedule correctly, the US has these games in the second round:

Sep 14: Uruguay
Sep 17: at Panama
Nov 29: at Argentina
Dec 2: at Uruguay
Feb 22: Panama
Feb 25: Argentina

Three out of the first four on the road will certainly put them under some pressure. Uruguay and Panama are weaker than Puerto Rico and Mexico, so they should be okay, but it just takes one bad loss to change things.

With the records carrying over into the 2nd round, the US is definitely in the driver's seat to qualify. I think the US was in the toughest bracket of the four during the 1st round, and we lucked out by playing a now-resurgent PR in Orlando (A pro-PR, but still). Argentina without question will be the US's toughest road game in the next round, but even with a loss, the US is almost assured a birth given how weak Panama and Uruguay are compared to Mexico and Puerto Rico. My question is, who will be the seventh team to represent the Americas? The US, Canada, Puerto Rico are sitting the prettiest, but if I'm Argentina, especially since some of their stars will be missing during the December and February window, they could be in serious trouble...road games at Puerto Rico, Mexico and the US could test their qualification even though I expect them to make it. Brazil, Venezuela and Dominican Rep. are on equal footing...they could easily qualify or easily not. Mexico has an outside chance, but given their 3-3 record, they've got some work to do...if they can get road wins over Uruguay and Panama, and sweep their home series, that would put them at 8-4; that should be enough to put them through, esp. if Brazil, Venezuela or DR falter. Uruguay has the toughest road to qualify of potential qualifiers. They'd need to go 8-4 to put themselves in a good position...I'm not sure if 7-5 will be enough given how their opponents in Group F have less mind fields to walk through. Unless major upsets occur, anyone at 6-6 has a death mark.

Arsonist
07-04-2018, 11:54 AM
The teams for the 2nd round on the way to the World Cup China 2019 have been defined.

Venezuela with a great defense beats Brazil by more than 16 points and then Chile by 19 points leads their group, also Argentina with 2 solid victories these teams qualify as top in their respective groups.

https://i.imgur.com/wAfIMne.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rOp7YkA.jpg

This second round will be interesting because it will raise the level.

CHBB
07-04-2018, 02:52 PM
I'm just glad Mexico made it through. I knew they could.

It would be crazy if these lesser basketball NTs like Uruguay made it to the WC. I'd say Venezuela is a lock though at this point. DR on the other hand is in trouble but at least they're only a game back.

Arsonist
07-05-2018, 01:07 AM
I'm just glad Mexico made it through. I knew they could.

It would be crazy if these lesser basketball NTs like Uruguay made it to the WC. I'd say Venezuela is a lock though at this point. DR on the other hand is in trouble but at least they're only a game back.

What do you mean, Venezuela's blocked at the moment?

R1ou
07-05-2018, 01:24 AM
What do you mean, Venezuela's blocked at the moment?

That most probably Venezuela will qualify.

MottoMonku
07-05-2018, 01:22 PM
the good news about those road games is they happen during the season, so weakened rosters.

Mexico/Puerto Rico was close to the FIBA ideal. Great crowd, two teams that were fairly close to their A listers, close game and some intensity. Too bad they can't all be like that.

I was at the PR vs Cuba game and the atmosphere was amazing. Last time I saw the PR NT was in the 2003 Tournament of the Americas at the same venue.
Had a ticket for the PR vs MEX game but sold it since I couldn't find more tickets for my family, it was sold out! Everyone in the island was excited about the game and everyone was talking about it the day after.

CHBB
07-06-2018, 04:17 PM
That most probably Venezuela will qualify. Exactly.

That's awesome, MottoMonku! Exactly what the sport needs.

JGX
07-16-2018, 11:14 PM
USA-Uruguay at Cox Pavilion in Las Vegas:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/07/mwcq-las-vegas-site.aspx

Federoy
07-17-2018, 03:00 AM
USA-Uruguay at Cox Pavilion in Las Vegas:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/07/mwcq-las-vegas-site.aspx

Vegas is a favorite venue for USA Basketball, but I thought Santa Cruz was an excellent host for both the Cuba and PR games (albeit pro-PR crowd). I would prefer keeping the home games in smaller markets. Portland, ME, Providence, RI, Albuquerque, MN or Dayton, OH would've been my choices.

mojo13
08-25-2018, 06:33 PM
Brazil announced its 13 man preliminary roster for upcoming games vs Canada and USVi.


Similar to their prior teams. Barbosa and Lima would be the main adds. Seems to be missing most of their current NBA talent. My bet is that has to do with paying insurance.
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/marcelinho-varejao-and-barbosa-in-brazils-preliminary-squad-for-september-window

JGX
08-25-2018, 09:46 PM
Panama named a 16-man squad for their games against Puerto Rico and the US:



1. Trevor Gaskins
2. Carlos Javier Rodríguez
3. Eugenio Luzcando Bocaz
4. Joel Muñoz
5. Iverson Molinar
6. Daniel Girón
7. Michael Hicks
8. Tony Bishop
9. Alejandro Grant
10. Ernesto Oglivie
11. Jamaal Levy
12. Akil Mitchell
13. Javier Carter
14. Josimar Ayarza
15. Jonathan Salazar
16. Leonardo Pomare


http://fepaba.com.pa/wp/index.php/2018/08/15/la-preseleccion-nacional-mayor-de-panama-inicia-sus-entrenamientos-el-proximo-lunes/

mojo13
08-27-2018, 04:02 PM
Nothing official yet but early media reports are saying Canada should have a similar team to what we had in July - likely minus RJ Barrett but adding Tristan Thompson.

The more impact names from that group would be:
Kelly Olynyk
Cory Joseph,
Dwight Powell
Dillon Brooks
Khem Birch
Tristan Thompson
Phil Scrubb
Anthony Bennett
Melvin Ejim
Brady Heslip


Sounds like no Jamal Murray, Andrew Wiggins, Nik Stauskas, Trey Lyles, Shai Gilgeous Alexander

But no insight yet on Tyler Ennis, Kevin Pangos, Xavier Rathan Mayes, Naz Mitrou Long, Chris Boucher, Kyle Wiltjer, Aarron Doornekamp. Any of those would be fairly helpful additions.


Andrew Wiggins is really digging himself a hole with Team Canada and Canadian bball fans. Especially with the next wave of great young guards/wings coming in, pretty soon I can see a case for just telling him to piss off. Add in Shai Gilgeous Alexander, RJ Barrett, Nickeil Alexander Walker and a few others into the mix with the next 2-3 years and Wiggins really wont be missed (Nik Stauskas too for that matter).

JGX
09-04-2018, 06:20 AM
US training camp roster. Includes several players who played in the NBA last year, although none of them are very good:


Returning to contend for a USA roster spot after previously playing with USA World Cup Qualifying Teams are guard Reggie Hearn (Grand Rapids Drive) and center Jameel Warney (Texas Legends).

...

Rounding out the U.S. training camp roster are Bryce Alford (Oklahoma City Blue); Dwayne Bacon (Charlottw Hornets); V.J. Beachem (Free Agent); Jordan Crawford (New Orleans Pelicans); Henry Ellenson (Detroit Pistons); Isaiah Hicks (New York Knicks); Dakari Johnson (Free Agent); Frank Mason III (Sacramento Kings); Ben Moore (Fort Wayne Mad Ants); Chasson Randle (Capital City Go-Go); Travis Trice (Milwaukee Bucks); and Derrick White (San Antonio Spurs).

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/09/mwcq-sept-players.aspx

Dtown
09-14-2018, 01:16 AM
Big win for Canada over Brazil to go to 6-1. Allows them to keep pace with Venezuela who's also 6-1, with Brazil at a respectable 5-2.

Straight forward
09-14-2018, 01:08 PM
Big win for Canada over Brazil to go to 6-1. Allows them to keep pace with Venezuela who's also 6-1, with Brazil at a respectable 5-2.

Brazil rides on the same old horses. Seems like one of the NT that will be weaker in the nearest future, in the same path as Argentina.

And how Canada managed to perform so poorly so far? Seems like they stuck with their way becoming international powerhouse. Bennet became a bust. Wiggins has issues with NT, right? I guess now the biggest hope Barret? Still plenty of NBA material, plenty prospects, but the feeling is that Canada just can't put it all together...

Dtown
09-14-2018, 01:51 PM
Brazil rides on the same old horses. Seems like one of the NT that will be weaker in the nearest future, in the same path as Argentina.

And how Canada managed to perform so poorly so far? Seems like they stuck with their way becoming international powerhouse. Bennet became a bust. Wiggins has issues with NT, right? I guess now the biggest hope Barret? Still plenty of NBA material, plenty prospects, but the feeling is that Canada just can't put it all together...

To my knowledge it's a combination of choking (they should have qualified out of the Americas in 2015), talent not developing like they thought, and talent being non committal (Wiggins)

That said they're in a good spot right now. A win vs Chile next and they're well positioned to qualify. The key, I believe, for the World Cup will be selling it as qualification for the 2020 Olympics for their non commitals. They have the talent to be really good it's just a matter of actually applying it.

mojo13
09-14-2018, 04:01 PM
To my knowledge it's a combination of choking (they should have qualified out of the Americas in 2015), talent not developing like they thought, and talent being non committal (Wiggins)

That said they're in a good spot right now. A win vs Chile next and they're well positioned to qualify. The key, I believe, for the World Cup will be selling it as qualification for the 2020 Olympics for their non commitals. They have the talent to be really good it's just a matter of actually applying it.


It's that and more...
First it is not like there has been many opportunities to play over the last few years, but let's start with 2015 FIBA Americas as really our supposed coming out party. It was a team stacked with supposed big NBA names at the time (Wiggins, Bennett, Stauskas - all high draft picks) along with Cory Joseph, Kelly Olynyk and an undeveloped Dwight Powell. We ran through opponents by an average margin off +20 per game. But then the semi vs VEN everything that could go wrong, went wrong. Yes we choked but it was one game were anything can happen - it sure didnt help that multiple guys were mysteriously food poisoned (in Mexico) and spent the prior two days in the hospital, VEN played fantastic hit end of the clock threes over and over, the Latin American refs clearly were favoring VEN and we were a very, very young team. It happened, life goes on - but I think it left a sour taste in many people's mouths. Wiggins and Nik Stuaskas have not suited up for Canada since. But we have always had trouble getting guys to play for a variety of reasons and that problem continues.

Canada Basketball hast historically been run poorly (we just hired Glen Grunwald this week as president - Bryan Colangelo may be assisting him so that is great news). We never have had elite international coaching - we always seem to insist on a Canadian coach putting us at a disadvantage. We have also never had a full-time coach. We have run through three different head coaches already in 2018 - another serious handicap. Further Canada is a hockey mad nation, making it difficult to get fan and media attention for the basketball NT. That doesn't help with participation - there seems to be too many guys like Wiggins who are indifferent about playing for the NT and the media and fans don;t hold them accountable. Something you likely wouldn't see in Lithuania, Serbia, Greece etc.

After 2015 FIBA Americas we really only played the 2016 Manila qualifiers and lost to a strong French team in the final (beating NZ, Turkey, Senegal along the way). It was not a strong Canadian team (participation issue again) and with only a few of our NBA players (Joseph, Tyler Ennis, Tristan Thompson) this was to be expected.

The qualifiers have been very difficult to manage for Canada - pulling guys from all over the world, very different teams each window, different coaches each window. Yet we are 6-1 with a +161 point differential. This seems a testament to things turning the right direction in my option. We have depth of talent all over the world (lots of guys in top European and Asian leagues) and are getting by fairly well so far in these Qualifiers without anywhere near our best talent.

I expect good things going forward - especially if Grunwald and Colangelo can make a difference. We have so much young talent (Jamal Murray, RJ Barrett, Dillon Brooks, Shai Gilgeous Alexander - and another 5-7 possible 1st round NBA picks over the next 2 years) and some great veteran leaders now in their prime (Cory Joseph, Kelly Olynyk, Tristan Thompson) - even if we continue to miss guys like Wiggins, Stauskas, Trey Lyles I am not sure we'd be much of a disadvantaged if we had the key vets and enough young talent on board.

The talent is there - the structural issues with poor NBA participation, media attention, poor management and coaching are still there but they seem to be moving in the right direction.

Guys missing from yesterdays game that seem very interested in Team Canada include RJ Barrett (at the game, Dad's the GM), Dillon Brooks, Dwight Powell, Jamal Murray, Shai Gilgeous Alexnder, Tyler Ennis - all seem engaged in some way or another (eg Tweeting about the game and results - telling the media they want to play).
Wiggins, Stuaksas, Trey Lyles - don't show any signs - and I don't expect them next year if we qualify. But you never know.

Arsonist
09-14-2018, 10:09 PM
Venezuela Follows with Firm Step the Way to the World China 2019.

https://i.imgur.com/wr90NZy.jpg

Yesterday Venezuela played its encounter against Virgin Islands, the Vinotinto selection began its encounter somewhat tenuous but dominating the first 2 quarters, in the third quarter Venezuela elevated its game and began to find efficiently the perimeter building a solid advantage of 20 Pts. With a 25-14 partial in that quarter.

In general the selection of Venezuela was balanced in offense and it was evident that some players still need to take rhythm, have to improve in the free throws and must be more forceful Vs Dominicana.

Good triumph for Venezuela that allows them to continue taking the right steps towards the World Cup in China 2019.

Dtown
09-15-2018, 02:22 AM
What a difference a window makes. Team USA looking vastly better than last window, and given that most of this roster either played in the nba or has contracts with teams it's not that surprising.

28-8 USA after 1

56-24 USA after 2 *sigh I wish we could have this team next window...*

In the meantime Argentina survives a nasty scare and Mexico loses in heartbreaking fashion. 78-74

USA wins by a damn Dream Team score 114 - 57.

This is easily the first time during the world cup qualification when I've had no complaints. This result means the US NBDL team that follows will have to miraculously shit the bed not to have a tie breaker over Uruguay.

If this squad can secure a win over Panama, then they'll likely only need to go 1-3 the rest of the way to qualify.

JGX
09-15-2018, 03:53 AM
Uruguay left some of their starters at home...I guess they are playing for fourth place. 57-point win will lock up the head-to-head tiebreaker if that becomes an issue.

Argentina win is a great result for the US.

Dtown
09-15-2018, 04:05 AM
Mexico/Uruguay should be intense. Nothing's settle yet but with the Dominican Republic sitting in 4th place in Group F there's very little room for error. Loser will be in deep shit.

Puerto Rico vs Argentina should also be good. Another Argentina win and they're sitting pretty, a Puerto Rico upset would also have them relatively safe for qualifying.

If US win, they're all but locks for the World Cup, another blowout makes it all but official.

Arsonist
09-15-2018, 07:07 AM
In the meantime Argentina survives a nasty scare and Mexico loses in heartbreaking fashion. 78-74


Mexico despite the fact that the mark was for 4 very bad juice, did everything to lose the game, had a great chance to win, but wasted everything.

Dtown
09-16-2018, 05:31 PM
Virgin Islands have forfeited their game against Brazil, siting not being able to arrive in a timely fashion. Brazil is awarded a 20-0 victory.

Rather baffling that.

JGX
09-16-2018, 07:34 PM
Apparently the USVI wasn't aware they needed visas for Brazil, and someone had to be sent to Houston with the player passports on Friday to obtain visas. Plans were made for part of the team to arrive Saturday and the rest on Sunday, but weren't able to make it in time. Some of these second-round windows in the Americas and Asia have a lot of travel between games and if something goes wrong it is hard to recover, especially when games are being played in smaller cities.

https://globoesporte.globo.com/basquete/noticia/ilhas-virgens-nao-chega-e-brasil-vence-duelo-pelas-eliminatorias-por-wo.ghtml
https://globoesporte.globo.com/basquete/noticia/sem-visto-para-o-brasil-selecao-das-ilhas-virgens-e-salva-por-cob-e-cbb.ghtml

JGX
09-16-2018, 07:39 PM
Some controversy with Chile-Canada, with the game being pushed back a day to accommodate Canada's travel arrangements, and then Canada leaving out their star players:
https://www.latercera.com/el-deportivo/noticia/el-menosprecio-de-canada/321279/

mojo13
09-16-2018, 08:37 PM
Some controversy with Chile-Canada, with the game being pushed back a day to accommodate Canada's travel arrangements, and then Canada leaving out their star players:
https://www.latercera.com/el-deportivo/noticia/el-menosprecio-de-canada/321279/

This is the lunacy on this stupid qualfier process. Expecting any team to play then fly 9000kms to play another game a couple days later.

I hope FIBA forces us to bring NBA players - they should be going in the first place to secure this win rather than playing with fire in South America where things always seem to be stacked against the gringos.

No shit we have to travel with our own chef nowadays after they poisoned our players in Mexico City in 2015.

Arsonist
09-17-2018, 03:33 AM
Victory for Venezuela in a closed game against Dominican who was in extra time with a score of 79-78, the best scorer for the Vinotinto basketball and guide of the triumph of Venezuela was the captain the cricket Vargas with 21 Pts. 6 Reb and 2 assists, followed by Heissler Guillen 16 Pts. 6 Assists and 3 Rebounds, Néstor Colmenares with 16 Pts. 5 Reb. 2 Assistances.

https://i.imgur.com/JqeXaXX.jpg

We are closer and closer to China 2019, but in this game despite the victory I am seriously concerned about the negative effectiveness in free throws by Venezuela, only 50% of very low effectiveness, this must be urgently remedied for the next windows, just think if we raise the percentage to 70 or maybe 80% would be another story totally different and could win the games more comfortably. For now we have to celebrate another victory suffered by the selection but closer to China.

JGX
09-18-2018, 12:49 AM
Never thought I would see Joel Anthony provide Canada with an offensive spark! Last time he scored 17 points in a game they lost to Lebanon. Canadians never really found a rhythm but finally opened up a comfortable lead with a spurt late in the third quarter.

Mexico blew it after leading almost the whole game in Uruguay. Mexico's only free throws of the game came in the first quarter...

I *think* that 8-4 or better guarantees the US top three.

Dtown
09-18-2018, 01:22 AM
I *think* that 8-4 or better guarantees the US top three.

Yes, 8 is pretty much the magic number across groups. 7-5 might get it done, but 8 wins is a lock.

1st quarter gone for US. 18-7, shots not falling but defensive is stout.

Ugly quarter but the US increases it's lead 36-23

JGX
09-18-2018, 01:49 AM
I jumped the gun a little bit, there is an unlikely scenario where Panama sweeps the remainder of their games, Uruguay gets to 8-4 or 9-3 including a win over the US, the US sweeps Argentina, but loses the tiebreaker at 8-4. If we hold on for the win tonight then 8-4 will be sufficient to clinch.

Ugly quarter is an understatement. I wonder how many of Panama's US-born players actually meet the FIBA regulations?

Puerto Rico completely folding in Argentina, they never disappoint. Sets up a head-to-head battle with Uruguay for third place.

Dtown
09-18-2018, 02:39 AM
US turns on the jets to beat Panama 78-48

Now that they're 7-1 the odds of qualifying favor them a lot. I think the following three clinch scenarios all work.

1 win and a Puerto Rico loss.
1 win, a loss by Uruguay and don't lose to Uruguay by more than 56 points (this would give them the tie breaker over Uruguay)
0 wins (!!) and lose to Uruguay by less than 57 points, and Panama by less than 30, and either Uruguay or Puerto Rico lose twice more. Since they play each other one is guaranteed to lose at least once more. In this scenario the US would own the tie breaker over Uruguay, Mexico, Puerto Rico and Panama.

EDIT: Over thought it, and made it more complicated than it needed to be

JGX
09-18-2018, 04:01 AM
1 win, a loss by Uruguay and don't lose to Uruguay by more than 56 points (this would give them the tie breaker over Uruguay)


Extreme hairsplitting since we're not going to lose to Uruguay by 57+ points, but if we win another game the score against Uruguay doesn't matter. Uruguay plays Puerto Rico twice, so if Uruguay gets to 8-4 then the best Puerto Rico can do is 8-4. We win the three-way tiebreaker in that case (because of the 3-1 head-to-head record). If Puerto Rico is worse than 8-4 then the tiebreaker with Uruguay is meaningless since we're both top three anyway.

There's also a very unlikely scenario with a four-way tie at 8-4, but I think we have the tiebreaker in that case as well.

Arsonist
09-18-2018, 05:29 AM
Mexico's game has collapsed, their pilot makes very bad decisions at the end of the game and Uruguay wanted more of the game, playing at home.

Panama is a team that does not defend, only think in offense very little defense and seem to tire quickly have little discipline.

Puerto Rico is another team that doesn't like to defend just do it when they remember and Argentina crushed them doing their offensive and defensive work.

Hepcat
09-18-2018, 01:25 PM
Why did the Virgin Islands team not show up for the qualifying game against Brazil on Sunday?

:confused:

Mindozas
09-18-2018, 01:29 PM
Why did the Virgin Islands team not show up for the qualifying game against Brazil on Sunday?

:confused:

http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/americas-qualifiers/news/statement-regarding-the-game-brazil-virgin-islands

Hepcat
09-18-2018, 01:36 PM
I see that FIBA has now corrected the point totals in the standings. While teams get one point for a loss, forfeits yield zero points.

:eek:

Straight forward
09-18-2018, 01:38 PM
I expect good things going forward - especially if Grunwald and Colangelo can make a difference. We have so much young talent (Jamal Murray, RJ Barrett, Dillon Brooks, Shai Gilgeous Alexander - and another 5-7 possible 1st round NBA picks over the next 2 years) and some great veteran leaders now in their prime (Cory Joseph, Kelly Olynyk, Tristan Thompson) - even if we continue to miss guys like Wiggins, Stauskas, Trey Lyles I am not sure we'd be much of a disadvantaged if we had the key vets and enough young talent on board.

The talent is there - the structural issues with poor NBA participation, media attention, poor management and coaching are still there but they seem to be moving in the right direction.


Great answer mojo. I quoted optimistic part. You have plenty of talent and with time you should build a solid BB culture.

Hepcat
09-18-2018, 01:43 PM
No shit we have to travel with our own chef nowadays after they poisoned our players in Mexico City in 2015.

Poutine, tourtière, back bacon, Montréal smoked meat and bagels, yellow(lake) perch, Atlantic salmon and Harvey's hamburgers! Mmmmmm, mmmmm!

:cool:

mojo13
11-06-2018, 06:16 PM
Jamal Murray with a 48 point game.
Shai Gilgeous Alexander starting the season really well - very impressive so far. Got his first start for the Clippers last night.
Dillon Brooks started slow, but is now playing well the last few games.
Nik Stauskas is even having a career resurgence! (I wonder if he will ever play for Canada again?)

And a very interesting NCAA season kicks off tonight - with, by my count, no less than a dozen Canadian NBA prospects and a solid chance of 3-5 drafted in the 2019 first round.

For those interested in reading more on the NCAA prospects:
1. Returning players (1-5): https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1761677
2. Returning players (6-10): https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1762046
3. Rookies (1-5): https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1762502
4. Rookies (6-10): https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1762883

MottoMonku
11-30-2018, 12:11 AM
Anyone watching today's games?
Currently watching Puerto Rico vs Uruguay!

JGX
11-30-2018, 12:47 AM
Apparently the lesson the Argies learned from the AmeriCup final was not to build a 20-point lead in the first half.

Dtown
11-30-2018, 01:14 AM
Ugly, ugly, ugly Basketball, but it's close 35-32 at halftime.

JGX
11-30-2018, 01:42 AM
Ugly, ugly, ugly Basketball, but it's close 35-32 at halftime.

IMO USA really missing inside presences who can do what Warney and Hilliard did for them in the AmeriCup game. Also team defense sucked once Argentina settled into the game, but that's not too surprising.

Dtown
11-30-2018, 01:50 AM
No paint presence, no one who can score in the paint, and no chemistry. Just a mess. The bright side is having Panama in our back pocket for qualification or hoping they play much better vs. Uruguay.

JGX
11-30-2018, 01:55 AM
The bright side is having Panama in our back pocket for qualification or hoping they play much better vs. Uruguay.

Yeah, it's a free game for us.

Also, painful last-second Puerto Rico losses to weak opponents are the best kind of Puerto Rico loss.