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Dtown
07-10-2016, 03:02 PM
Now that we know all the teams participating how do you rank the 12 teams coming into the Olympics?


As it stands right now I feel.

1: USA
2: Spain
3: France
4: Serbia
5: Lithuania
6: Brazil
7: Argentina
8: Croatia
9: Australia
10: Nigeria
11: Venezuela
12: China

1: US is the US. Not their strongest lineup, but the GS Warr - err Durant, Greeen, Klay, complemented by Irving/Carmello is still extremely formidable.

I feel 2-4 are really, really close and almost interchangeable. Basically the favorites for Silver, and imo the only teams that can take out the US.

5-8 Are my teams capable of Bronze. I don't think any of them can make the final but they're capable of upsetting the 2-4 teams. Normally I wouldn't put Brazil this high as they are 'Always disappointing' but I feel homecourt counts for something.

9-11: I feel these are teams that might pull an upset and get to the knock out stage. Might be disrespecting Venezuela a bit but I still feel they just took advantage of a really immature Canada side.

12: Just happy to be here.

usagre
07-10-2016, 03:07 PM
Tier 1. United States

Tier 2. Spain, France, Serbia

Tier 3 Argentina, Lithuania, Croatia,

Tier 4 Australia, Brazil

Tier 5 China, Nigeria, Venezuela

Straight forward
07-10-2016, 03:19 PM
Tier 1. United States

Tier 2. Spain, France, Serbia

Tier 3 Argentina, Lithuania, Croatia,

Tier 4 Australia, Brazil

Tier 5 China, Nigeria, Venezuela

This. +1

Italian Pride
07-10-2016, 03:47 PM
Croatia can recall some big man?Tomic,Hamilton,Zoric or Zizic and back up pg?

if yes for me they are very dangerous team!

Usa
Serbia (with Bjelica)
France
Spain ( without Marc)
Lithuania(with D-Mo)
Brazil
Argentina
Croatia
Australia
Nigeria
China
Venezuela

R1ou
07-10-2016, 03:57 PM
1 America
2 Serbia
3 Spain
4 France
5 Australia
6 Argentina
7 Brazil
8 Lithuania
9 Croatia
10 Nigeria
11 Venezuela
12 China

Steadysoul
07-10-2016, 04:04 PM
Tier 1. United States

Tier 2. Spain, France, Serbia

Tier 3 Argentina, Lithuania, Croatia,

Tier 4 Australia, Brazil

Tier 5 China, Nigeria, Venezuela

I agree but I think Nigeria occupies that space between tier 4 and 5. They have a real chance to get an upset and improve

Steadysoul
07-10-2016, 04:27 PM
Now that we know all the teams participating how do you rank the 12 teams coming into the Olympics?


As it stands right now I feel.

1: USA
2: Spain
3: France
4: Serbia
5: Lithuania
6: Brazil
7: Argentina
8: Croatia
9: Australia
10: Nigeria
11: Venezuela
12: China

1: US is the US. Not their strongest lineup, but the GS Warr - err Durant, Greeen, Klay, complemented by Irving/Carmello is still extremely formidable.

I feel 2-4 are really, really close and almost interchangeable. Basically the favorites for Silver, and imo the only teams that can take out the US.

5-8 Are my teams capable of Bronze. I don't think any of them can make the final but they're capable of upsetting the 2-4 teams. Normally I wouldn't put Brazil this high as they are 'Always disappointing' but I feel homecourt counts for something.

9-11: I feel these are teams that might pull an upset and get to the knock out stage. Might be disrespecting Venezuela a bit but I still feel they just took advantage of a really immature Canada side.

12: Just happy to be here.

to be fair to Venezuela....they also beat Argentina.

usagre
07-10-2016, 04:29 PM
to be fair to Venezuela....they also beat Argentina.

I don't know what to make of Venezuela. But if they play well they will also have a lot of support since the games are in Brazil.

remigijus
07-10-2016, 04:30 PM
1: USA
2: Spain
3: France
4: Lithuania
5: Serbia
6: Croatia
7: Brazil
8: Argentina
9: Australia
10: Venezuela
11: Nigeria
12: China

Dtown
07-10-2016, 04:36 PM
to be fair to Venezuela....they also beat Argentina.

I really didn't think Argentina took that seriously, what with already being qualified for the Olympics. Still maybe they'll prove me wrong. Group A is top heavy so their major game will be against Australia.

Shawshank
07-10-2016, 04:42 PM
more or less i agree about possible top 4 teams and semifinalists.But i believe Australia is stronger than most people thinks here .Myself i feel Australia is better than Croatia and alot better than Venezualia.They will beat easily both China and Venezuala and make top8 again.

unnamed
07-10-2016, 04:44 PM
more or less i agree about possible top 4 teams and semifinalists.But i believe Australia is stronger than most people thinks here .Myself i feel Australia is better than Croatia and alot better than Venezualia.They will beat easily both China and Venezuala and make top8 again.

Could say the same. I think Australia will secure top 8 phase.

Steadysoul
07-10-2016, 04:45 PM
I really didn't think Argentina took that seriously, what with already being qualified for the Olympics. Still maybe they'll prove me wrong. Group A is top heavy so their major game will be against Australia.

its too easy to use that excuse. We have to give them some credit for getting to a final no one saw them making. Everyone assumed PR would make the final four over them.

Steadysoul
07-10-2016, 04:48 PM
more or less i agree about possible top 4 teams and semifinalists.But i believe Australia is stronger than most people thinks here .Myself i feel Australia is better than Croatia and alot better than Venezualia.They will beat easily both China and Venezuala and make top8 again.

We can never tell because they have such an easy path to the Olympics. Looking at past performances 7-9 seems pretty accurate as far as guesses go.

Mozart
07-10-2016, 04:55 PM
Gold : United States

go for a Medal : Spain, France, Serbia,

quarterfinalist : Lithuania, Croatia, Argentina, Australia, Brazil (of course one of this cannot reach the quarterfinal...I should say Brasil, but they play home....so we'll see)

out at 1st round : China, Nigeria, Venezuela

G&B
07-11-2016, 05:11 AM
Tier 1. United States, Lithuania, Spain, France,
Tier 2. Serbia, Croatia, Australia, Brazil,
Tier 3 Argentina, China, Nigeria, Venezuela

1.United States
2/3. Lithuania-Spain
3/4 Spain-France
5/6/7/8 Serbia-Croatia-Australia-Brazil

vuxsa
07-11-2016, 07:13 AM
Tier 1. United States

Tier 2. Spain, France, Serbia

Tier 3 Argentina, Lithuania, Croatia,

Tier 4 Australia, Brazil

Tier 5 China, Nigeria, Venezuela

Most realistic.

Picek
07-11-2016, 07:18 AM
Croatia can recall some big man?Tomic,Hamilton,Zoric or Zizic and back up pg?


no changes will be made.
players decided that together with coaches.
to be honest, I don't care if we end up last.
we are there, citius, altius, fortius.

G&B
07-11-2016, 07:22 AM
Argentina - I do not believe, as a very old team
Serbia - hardly can fight for a medal, because it has a weak 3-4-5 positions, compared to the USA, Spain, Lithuania, France

vuxsa
07-11-2016, 07:24 AM
Argentina - I do not believe, as a very old team
Serbia - hardly can fight for a medal, because it has a weak 3-4-5 positions, compared to the US, Spain, Lithuania, France

Dude, you have there a slight case of power underestimation / overestimation in both cases of Serbia and Lithuania. Don't mean to start any flames, but some reality check is in order. At least for a statement that Serbia cannot fight for a medal.

CoachZ
07-11-2016, 07:29 AM
Don't waste your energy, check out his other posts. As well as last years Eurobasket. Classic Serb hater. So don't take it seriously. He even called Mindozas traitor to his country for saying anything remotely bad about Lith :D Just a fun fella to hang around.

G&B
07-11-2016, 07:32 AM
Dude, you have there a slight case of power underestimation / overestimation in both cases of Serbia and Lithuania. Don't mean to start any flames, but some reality check is in order. At least for a statement that Serbia cannot fight for a medal.

It clear can, but the possibility is not much, because the front line is too weak.

G&B
07-11-2016, 07:38 AM
Don't waste your energy, check out his other posts. As well as last years Eurobasket. Classic Serb hater. So don't take it seriously. He even called Mindozas traitor to his country for saying anything remotely bad about Lith :D Just a fun fella to hang around.

What is the relationship between me and Mindozas? Better Test really, and I'm not the enemy Serbia, between its always say that the Balkan country has a great basketball school.

vuxsa
07-11-2016, 07:43 AM
Well you're obviously wrong, but anyone has a right of opinion. Our frontcourt is actually stronger than last year, way stronger. Maybe we're not as good as Spain, but it doesn't come down only to frontcourt match-up, but a whole team match-up. And we have the strongest team from this generation so far, with all the key players ready and fit to play (maybe just Bjelica a bit off, but this can come to it's place).

So, not listening to Coach Z in this post (:D) I'll explain to you once again - leaving Serbia out of medal contenders just on a claim that our frontcourt is week (?!) would keep you low in my list of bookies :).

CoachZ
07-11-2016, 07:48 AM
Well you're obviously wrong, but anyone has a right of opinion. Our frontcourt is actually stronger than last year, way stronger. Maybe we're not as good as Spain, but it doesn't come down only to frontcourt match-up, but a whole team match-up. And we have the strongest team from this generation so far, with all the key players ready and fit to play (maybe just Bjelica a bit off, but this can come to it's place).

So, not listening to Coach Z in this post (:D) I'll explain to you once again - leaving Serbia out of medal contenders just on a claim that our frontcourt is week (?!) would keep you low in my list of bookies :).

Also France frontcourt is Lauvergne, Diaw, Moerman, Tillie, Pietrus, Gelabale. If that is intimidating, I don't know :D :D :D Even if Gobert joins the team. Spain has the strongest frontcourt outside USA. We have a lot of flexibility, Bjelica, Jokic, Raduljica, Kalinic, Macvan can all play and most of them play multiple positions.

G&B
07-11-2016, 07:57 AM
Well you're obviously wrong, but anyone has a right of opinion. Our frontcourt is actually stronger than last year, way stronger. Maybe we're not as good as Spain, but it doesn't come down only to frontcourt match-up, but a whole team match-up. And we have the strongest team from this generation so far, with all the key players ready and fit to play (maybe just Bjelica a bit off, but this can come to it's place).

So, not listening to Coach Z in this post (:D) I'll explain to you once again - leaving Serbia out of medal contenders just on a claim that our frontcourt is week (?!) would keep you low in my list of bookies :).

Yes, we all have our own opinion. Maybe Serbia and has a better front-line players, but they are not the national team.
Jokic has made progress in qualifying and played great, but in Rio is another caliber front-line players.

Even in qualifying will be have problems such as Italy with Croatia, if for Latvia to plays Pozringis and Bertrans.

Shawshank
07-11-2016, 08:03 AM
G&B

stopped men you are looking weird... Serbia is more talented team overall than Lithuania.Serbia is definetely top5 Olympic 2016 team and definetely medal contender.But for example if i could choose play againt Spain/France/Serbia i choose play Serbia.We have good record againt Teodosics Serbia.But that doesnt mean they are not medal condenders,i just feel those youngs serbians sometimes chokes like last semifinal.France and Spain chokes very very rarely with that experience and leadership they gets from long time leaders.

My top 4 ranking would be in this exact order:

1.Usa 2.France 3.Spain.4.Serbia

vuxsa
07-11-2016, 08:05 AM
He he, not worth continuing this conversation with you. I will take that you did not actually watch Serbia play before I assume that you're simply trashing our team.

Enjoy mate!

vuxsa
07-11-2016, 08:11 AM
G&B

stopped men you are looking weird... Serbia is more talented team overall than Lithuania.Serbia is definetely top5 Olympic 2016 team and definetely medal contender.But for example if i could choose play againt Spain/France/Serbia i choose play Serbia.We have good record againt Teodosics Serbia.But that doesnt mean they are not medal condenders,i just feel those youngs serbians sometimes chokes like last semifinal.France and Spain chokes very very rarely with that experience and leadership they gets from long time leaders.

My ranking would be in this exact order:

1.Usa 2.France 3.Spain.4.Serbia

I wouldn't even consider us chokers also. We don't have that bad semifinal record from 2009 onward (emerging of this generation, or Teodosic Serbia as you put it). We didn't choke against Turks in 2010, we lost a game on the edge of the knife under some heavy home-court refereeing. In 2014 we won and last year...ok maybe we choke there a little :D, but one in all honesty must admit that we burnt out our fuel reserve in a group of death. What this generation of ours needs to learn though is that bronze is as valid medal as any. So if we again lose semis, we should find enough fighting spirit...

G&B
07-11-2016, 08:17 AM
G&B

stopped men you are looking weird... Serbia is more talented team overall than Lithuania.Serbia is definetely top5 Olympic 2016 team and definetely medal contender.But for example if i could choose play againt Spain/France/Serbia i choose play Serbia.We have good record againt Teodosics Serbia.But that doesnt mean they are not medal condenders,i just feel those youngs serbians sometimes chokes like last semifinal.France and Spain chokes very very rarely with that experience and leadership they gets from long time leaders.

My top 4 ranking would be in this exact order:

1.Usa 2.France 3.Spain.4.Serbia

Well, I shall be with his view that Serbia is more talent for Lithuania to be a proof rather than the word, the last 20 years shows that the most important all fights between Lithuania and Serbia wins Lithuania

Teodosić maybe have more talent than Kalnietis, but Kalnietis not for the first time proved that it can play better than Teodosić (2010, 2015)

blogazzz
07-11-2016, 09:07 AM
Almost agree:


Tier 1. United States

Tier 2. Spain, France, Serbia

Tier 3 Australia, Lithuania, Croatia,

Tier 4 Argentina, Brazil

Tier 5 China, Nigeria, Venezuela

And there is my predictions for the tournament :)

9034

Modis
07-11-2016, 11:46 AM
1: USA
2: France
3: Spain
4: Serbia
5: Lithuania
6: Croatia
7: Brazil
8: Australia
9: Argentina
10: Venezuela
11: Nigeria
12: China

raph
07-11-2016, 12:31 PM
Hard to predict how well France will perform without knowing who will be in the list.

For me, Serbia, Spain and USA are clear favorites. I don't necessary think this USA team has a guaranteed win in Rio though. We still got to see them playing team bball. They have the talent in offense, but who will do the dirty work ?
For me, France and Lithuania are biggest candidates for doing an upset - Lit's are almost always on the podium in the end -, but the spanish and serbs have better team bball, and usa obviously have the better athletes.

Also, Brazil will play at home, and their fans can be really crazy. Their team is not necessary as deep as other big nations, but i would not overlook them.

There will be some surprises (in group B for sure, but in the 1/4 as well). I dont know what to think of a rather old Argentina (i am being nice) with many players who will retire after these Olympics. Their group is not so easy, and i could easily see them facing USA in 1/4 for a nice jubile.
Croatia could be a nice (and big) surprise even if they don't seem as deep as other top teams. They qualified nicely and their mental proved to be a real strenght. And like France did with Parker and Batum generations, they are starting to mix their own golden generations. We still need to see their final list too.

France has zero margin in this tournament. Our biggest strenght would be to have a good mix of euroleague and nba players. I hope Collet don't call back Fournier, we dont need him (except if he wants to add a scorer from the bench, but he is really soft).

Hepcat
07-11-2016, 02:31 PM
Argentina - I do not believe, as a very old team
Serbia - hardly can fight for a medal, because it has a weak 3-4-5 positions, compared to the USA, Spain, Lithuania, France


Dude, you have there a slight case of power underestimation / overestimation in both cases of Serbia and Lithuania. Don't mean to start any flames, but some reality check is in order. At least for a statement that Serbia cannot fight for a medal.


Don't waste your energy, check out his other posts. As well as last years Eurobasket. Classic Serb hater. So don't take it seriously.

There's no reason to be so touchy about G&B's ranking though. He still has Serbia at 5-8 and while that may be on the low side, it's still a reasonable assessment. None of us Lithuanian posters have taken any exception to ratings of Lithuania as low as #8.

:eek:

CoachZ
07-11-2016, 02:37 PM
There's no reason to be so touchy about G&B's ranking though. He still has Serbia at 5-8 and while that may be on the low side, it's still a reasonable assessment. None of us Lithuanian posters have taken any exception to ratings of Lithuania as low as #8.

:eek:

I have no problem with rankings. Everyone has an opinion. Still some of them you value, others don't. I just tried to tell my Serbian compatriot not to waste energy trying to explain himself to D&G. He has shown quite a lot of hostility towards Serbian posters, teams, players etc. before. This is the reason why. Especially during the Eurobasket 2015 time. That was just pitiful. Of course, still he has the right to his opinion. I can think that the world is flat, still doesn't mean that people should take me seriously because of that :D Right? :D

R1ou
07-11-2016, 02:47 PM
There's no reason to be so touchy about G&B's ranking though. He still has Serbia at 5-8 and while that may be on the low side, it's still a reasonable assessment. None of us Lithuanian posters have taken any exception to ratings of Lithuania as low as #8.

:eek:

Still 5-8 is a bit of impossible meaning they will lose the first knockout to Argentina/Nigeria/Brazil/Croatia(possible 3rd teams) or even Spain if something goes wrong and then Spaniards decide to finish 3rd in order to avoid US.Lithuania will need to face France/Serbia at the first knockout and to be honest in terms of quality Lithuania is back.



P.S. It will be interesting to see the FIBA-Joke rankings after the tournament.From the little I have checked,Serbia Brazil and France will be only benefited as they missed the Olympics of 2008.Argentina and Lithuania will potentially lose if they don't finish 3/4 respectively.Greece and Russia will lose the most.Turkey in top 7 :D :D

madmax
07-11-2016, 04:16 PM
I personally can see Serbia losing their QF match vs any team from Group B - they are no longer that mentally unshakeable team from the 90's and early 00's, when you would expect to see them in a final of any big tournament. As for my beloved Lithuania, we've been quite steady in the last few tournaments, mainly thanks to our cohesion and team spirit of course, but talent wise we have huge gaping holes in PG and SG positions and in modern basketball there's only so much you can do without world class perimeter player...

G&B
07-11-2016, 04:20 PM
I have no problem with rankings. Everyone has an opinion. Still some of them you value, others don't. I just tried to tell my Serbian compatriot not to waste energy trying to explain himself to D&G. He has shown quite a lot of hostility towards Serbian posters, teams, players etc. before. This is the reason why. Especially during the Eurobasket 2015 time. That was just pitiful. Of course, still he has the right to his opinion. I can think that the world is flat, still doesn't mean that people should take me seriously because of that :D Right? :D



I do not know, how much I will sometimes have to repeat, that I nothing have against Serbia, and even on the contrary I very respect Serbia basketballs school.

Before EC-2015 when I predicted victory Lithuania against Serbia,and when it happened I was guilty of that as so think.

For the grievances that so I thought then and now, is unable to offend you

G&B
07-11-2016, 04:30 PM
I personally can see Serbia losing their QF match vs any team from Group B - they are no longer that mentally unshakeable team from the 90's and early 00's, when you would expect to see them in a final of any big tournament. As for my beloved Lithuania, we've been quite steady in the last few tournaments, mainly thanks to our cohesion and team spirit of course, but talent wise we have huge gaping holes in PG and SG positions and in modern basketball there's only so much you can do without world class perimeter player...

I recall that the EC 2013 silver medal winning pay entirely lost PG, and now is a much better situation in all positions.

unnamed
07-11-2016, 04:49 PM
My Power Rankings list:

1. USA
2. Spain
3. France
4. Australia
5. Lithuania
6. Serbia
7. Argentina (7th to 9th place are all very equal)
8. Brazil
9. Croatia
10. Nigeria
11. Venezuela
12. China

Mozart
07-11-2016, 05:54 PM
just wondering if you have ever seen a match in the last days (including the two against France)

unnamed
07-11-2016, 06:15 PM
just wondering if you have ever seen a match in the last days (including the two against France)

I saw all the matches in the Arena except the match against Greece. I also saw France vs Canada game, and few more

Straight forward
07-11-2016, 07:12 PM
I recall that the EC 2013 silver medal winning pay entirely lost PG, and now is a much better situation in all positions.

The guy is either too young or too uneducated :rolleyes: I have no idea what he's talking about and obviously he doesn't what so ever :) Should be ignored.

Picek
07-11-2016, 07:41 PM
We still need to see their final list too.



guards: Ukić, Stipčević, Bogdanović, Hezonja, Krušlin, Simon, Babić
bigs: Šakić, Arapović, Planinić, Bilan, Šarić

that is our final list.
it will be changed only if injury occurs.

Hepcat
07-11-2016, 08:41 PM
My rankings at this moment:

1. United States

2. Spain
3. Serbia
4. France
5. Lithuania

6. Australia
7. Argentina
8. Croatia
9. Venezuela
10. Brazil
11. Nigeria
12. China

The United States is my odds-on favourite for the Gold while Spain, Serbia, France and Lithuania will contend for the other two medals.

:cool:

Dacho88Nk
07-12-2016, 03:20 PM
1. United States
2. Serbia
3. Spain
4. France
5. Brazil
6. Australia
7. Argentina
8. Croatia
9. Lithuania
10.Venezuela
11.Nigeria
12.China

wilhelm
07-12-2016, 04:12 PM
Tier 1. United States, Lithuania, Spain, France,


What the... :eek:
I can deal with the fact that you somehow rate your national team higher than Serbia, France, Spain and other european powerhouses.But it's insanely unrealistic to place your team or actually ANY team at the same tier with the States. For them its more of a mickey mouse cup. We already know they are gonna win the gold without even knowing the players that are gonna be there.We euro peasants need to bow down and accept their dominance :D

Usagre's power ranking so far is the most accurate

Modis
07-12-2016, 06:03 PM
1. United States
2. Serbia
3. Spain
4. France
5. Brazil
6. Australia
7. Argentina
8. Croatia
9. Lithuania
10.Venezuela
11.Nigeria
12.China

Again you standing out of everyone;)...9th ??? You're doing the same mistake as last year ranking Lithuania as low as possible until it actually starts to get retarded even for you.

G&B
07-12-2016, 08:06 PM
What the... :eek:
I can deal with the fact that you somehow rate your national team higher than Serbia, France, Spain and other european powerhouses.But it's insanely unrealistic to place your team or actually ANY team at the same tier with the States. For them its more of a mickey mouse cup. We already know they are gonna win the gold without even knowing the players that are gonna be there.We euro peasants need to bow down and accept their dominance :D

Usagre's power ranking so far is the most accurate

I did not say that Lithuania is stronger than the United States, Spain and France, but that Lithuania is a member of the group, which is actually fighting for medals, allow me to say the equipment which is better than the previous tournament who won medals. Even if we do not D.Motiejuno we actually claiming medals. Finally there is the story of the FIBA rankings and so on .To you do not know some of the players it's your problem, because it does not prevent them to play in NBA or ACB league.

Dacho88Nk
07-12-2016, 08:19 PM
Again you standing out of everyone;)...9th ??? You're doing the same mistake as last year ranking Lithuania as low as possible until it actually starts to get retarded even for you.

No brother. Let's write like this, to easier understand me.

1. United States
2. Serbia, Spain, France
3. Brazil, Australia
4. Argentina, Croatia, Lithuania - the same lavel
5.Venezuela, Nigeria, China

United States, Serbia, Spain, France, Brazil, Australia - all this teams are much better than Lithuania. We're talking about this year and by God, and on the next because you have a very bad team. You do not have a bright future. Maybe this is not like you because you're a Lithuanian, but that's a fact.

Hepcat
07-12-2016, 08:24 PM
You're posting in the wrong thread then. We don't deal in facts here. Only opinions.

The facts will be determined in a few weeks time in Rio.

;)

Modis
07-12-2016, 10:01 PM
No brother. Let's write like this, to easier understand me.

1. United States
2. Serbia, Spain, France
3. Brazil, Australia
4. Argentina, Croatia, Lithuania - the same lavel
5.Venezuela, Nigeria, China

United States, Serbia, Spain, France, Brazil, Australia - all this teams are much better than Lithuania. We're talking about this year and by God, and on the next because you have a very bad team. You do not have a bright future. Maybe this is not like you because you're a Lithuanian, but that's a fact.

Not gonna even bother with you again mate you keep underestimating us when we proof to you year after year.. Will get back to you after Rio finishes okay. I dont want this fire again here like last time.

Dacho88Nk
07-12-2016, 10:20 PM
Not gonna even bother with you again mate you keep underestimating us when we proof to you year after year.. Will get back to you after Rio finishes okay. I dont want this fire again here like last time.

Ok. You will see :)

kougen
07-13-2016, 12:23 AM
My rankings at this moment:

1. United States

2. Lithuania
3. Spain
4. Serbia

5. France
6. Croatia
7. Australia
8. Brazil

9. Argentina
10. Venezuela
11. Nigeria

12. China

Mindozas
07-13-2016, 05:49 AM
Funniest thread of Eurobasket 2015 is back for Olympics... and it delivers again :D

Ok, I know it's a bit too early to rank the teams (for my liking), no final rosters, with some key players questionable, no friendlies for some teams, but some conclusions can be made

1. USA - no doubt here, even without some top players they are still obvious favorite

2-4. Spain, France, Serbia - 2nd tire of teams, most talented ones, most likely to fight for medals

Then it gets tough

Brazil and Argentina are aging, but playin' in South America is obviously advantage, moreover Brazil at home. On other hand I rate Lithuania as better team now, that team spirit Kazlauskas build during this Olympic cycle can't be ignored, so hard to make a choice now, probably it'll stay as 3 teams group for now, let's see if Lithuania will have D-Mo, if Argentina and Brazil will stay healthy till Olympics

5-7. Lithuania, Argentina, Brazil - no final, but there's still a shot for semi or maybe even bronze

8-10. Croatia, Australia, Nigeria - dark horses of the tournament. Still, maybe it's me, but it's hard to trust Croaita goin' for higher than that. The same for Australia, too unstable, unproven, having hard time against Euros. Nigeria has good pool of talent, but can they get the best out of it??? that's a question. 1/4 at best for all

11. Venezuela - nothing spectacular, but still tough team to beat on home continent, that should be enough not to finish last in group, but that's about all I'm afraid

12. China - simply IMO the worst team outthere

I guess till the start of the tournament it might change here and there, mostly in the middle of ranking

Shawshank
07-13-2016, 06:08 AM
A. 1.Usa 2.France 3.Serbia 4.Australia
B.1.Spain 2.Argentina 3.Lithuania 4.Brasil

1/4

Usa-Brasil
Argentina-Serbia
France-Lithuania
Spain-Australia

logic say like that about top4 teams.But usually one favorite falls.Biggest chance for an upset in 1/4 in my opinnion will have Lithuania and Argentina.They are proven playoof teams.More chances will have that team thats gets Serbia in 1/4 from group A

G&B
07-13-2016, 06:41 AM
I would

optimistic

A. 1.Usa 2.France 3.Australia 4.Serbia
B.1.Lithuania 2.Spain 3.Brazil 4.Croatia

1/4

Usa-Croatia
France-Brazil
Australia-Spain
Serbia-Lithuania

1/2

USA- Spain
France- Lithuania


pessimistic

A. 1.Usa 2.France 3.Australia 4.Serbia
B.1.Spain 2.Lithuania3.Brazil 4.Croatia


1/4

Usa-Croatia
France-Brazil
Australia-Lithuania
Serbia-Spain

1/2

USA- Lithuania
France- Spain

SashKX
07-13-2016, 08:59 AM
I think it's very much impossible to predict who's gonna place how here, both groups can have surprises, especially B which is a complete unknown. The only realistic thing to expect is what most of people already said here:

Tier 1 - USA
Tier 2 - France, Spain and Serbia, in no particular order, although I would put Serbia above if Boban somehow ends up coming, that team could give USA a run for their money. Currently with Raduljica and Stimac against Cousins and Jordan... not gonna be fun. French and Spanish front court will be troublesome too.

For the rest, I don't know, perhaps I would put Lithuania alone in next tier, slightly above Argentina, Australia, Brazil and Croatia, just because its Lithuania, you can never underestimate them, and they are sure to put up a good fight with any of the tier 2 teams. Nigeria definitely above Venezuela and China.

Can make better estimates when we know full rosters of all teams, and maybe see few prep games with them.

R1ou
07-13-2016, 10:30 AM
I would

optimistic

A. 1.Usa 2.France 3.Australia 4.Serbia
B.1.Lithuania 2.Spain 3.Brazil 4.Croatia

1/4

Usa-Croatia
France-Brazil
Australia-Spain
Serbia-Lithuania

1/2

USA- Spain
France- Lithuania


pessimistic

A. 1.Usa 2.France 3.Australia 4.Serbia
B.1.Spain 2.Lithuania3.Brazil 4.Croatia


1/4

Usa-Croatia
France-Brazil
Australia-Lithuania
Serbia-Spain

1/2

USA- Lithuania
France- Spain




The "I like Serbian bbal school" guy has ranked Serbia twice 4th at the group and then again twice to be eliminated from the first knockout,while he thinks that Lithuania will win either silver or bronze.Get serious one time,you make other members show disrespectful behaviours towards Lithuanian guys because of your arrogant posts.

vuxsa
07-13-2016, 11:19 AM
The "I like Serbian bbal school" guy has ranked Serbia twice 4th at the group and then again twice to be eliminated from the first knockout,while he thinks that Lithuania will win either silver or bronze.Get serious one time,you make other members show disrespectful behaviours towards Lithuanian guys because of your arrogant posts.
+ 1:)

G&B
07-13-2016, 12:56 PM
The "I like Serbian bbal school" guy has ranked Serbia twice 4th at the group and then again twice to be eliminated from the first knockout,while he thinks that Lithuania will win either silver or bronze.Get serious one time,you make other members show disrespectful behaviours towards Lithuanian guys because of your arrogant posts.



It's just my opinion and nothing else (I justify your opinion - your poorly completed in positions) of course if your front-line join Boban, you can take group and a higher place.

Straight forward
07-13-2016, 01:09 PM
My rankings at this moment:
1. United States
2. Lithuania


Finally non-Lithuanian poster overrated Lithuania in ranking thread :) Quite historical post I must say :) People tend to hate consistent results of Lithuania (which they always treat as over achievement) and I doubt it's only because of annoyance of Lith posters. And most people are ready to absolutely ignore the fact that Lithuania stands as 4th-3rd team in FIBA ranking like forever any minute. I have to say I grew out of that complex, used to take it kinda emotionally (and there always be the ones like G&B at the moment as far as this forum exists), but now I don't care a bit, even though I want my NT to do good.

Picek
07-13-2016, 05:28 PM
Finally non-Lithuanian poster overrated Lithuania in ranking thread :) Quite historical post I must say :) People tend to hate consistent results of Lithuania (which they always treat as over achievement) and I doubt it's only because of annoyance of Lith posters. And most people are ready to absolutely ignore the fact that Lithuania stands as 4th-3rd team in FIBA ranking like forever any minute. I have to say I grew out of that complex, used to take it kinda emotionally (and there always be the ones like G&B at the moment as far as this forum exists), but now I don't care a bit, even though I want my NT to do good.
yes, your post shows that you are clearly over it..:p

Straight forward
07-13-2016, 06:25 PM
yes, your post shows that you are clearly over it..:p

:D LOL...I'm getting better, I hope you'll give me that :)

cigarafterten2016
07-14-2016, 12:23 PM
Do you think Croatia and/or Serbia can get a medal? I hope so as I love the jugobasket.

SashKX
07-14-2016, 01:10 PM
Do you think Croatia and/or Serbia can get a medal? I hope so as I love the jugobasket.

For Serbia it depends how groups go. There's also a question mark about Bjelica still, who will most likely play, but you never know. So assuming he's there and if 2nd place is secured somehow, which is possible, then whoever is 3rd from group B can definitely be defeated. After that it's semis against Spain most likely, or maybe France, either of which can be won as well, I'd give it 50% chance, and there's the medal. Having 3rd place in group most likely means facing USA in semis, and being 4th most likely means Spain in quarter finals, so chances drop significantly. You never know though, no one can tell you how will Spain place in group B, knowing how slow they usually start. Also if Serbia loses semis, I wouldn't bet on that team in bronze medal game, they almost never fight for 3rd place.

For Croatia it doesn't look good. They are highly unlikely to make it to top of group B, and will in any case most likely have to face one of the big 3 from group A in quarter finals, which is a game they are almost sure to lose.

Victorious
07-14-2016, 01:39 PM
At least the USA is going to have some tough opponents as of the QF as well as in the group phase. In the last two international tournaments they played some good teams starting the semi's.

I will be supporting every team who plays against the USA. The last time they lost was a decade ago already. Only France, Serbia and Spain stand a chance in beating them.

usagre
07-14-2016, 02:18 PM
At least the USA is going to have some tough opponents as of the QF as well as in the group phase. In the last two international tournaments they played some good teams starting the semi's.

I will be supporting every team who plays against the USA. The last time they lost was a decade ago already. Only France, Serbia and Spain stand a chance in beating them.

Not true. 2014 was weak competition until the semis. But 2012 they played France, Argentina and Lithuania in Preliminary group play. And the Lithuania game was tougher and closer than the final vs Spain.

Ashtrusis_dantis
07-14-2016, 07:02 PM
I see bitching started again :) and again there will be the same situation - other fans will cry how terrible Lithuanian fans are, but it won't be us who after win or loss of other teams will come to discussions of other teams to tell that they are not that good, they were just lucky and so on, and so on... :) Ou no, that will be some Turkish, some Serbian, some Russian and few other guys who will come to our discussion (even if we were not playing their team) to tell all that and + to tell us what a terrible fans we are... :D

Ok, back to rating:

1.USA (there is no question about it)

2. Spain, France, Serbia, Lithuania. In that particular order. Difference is small and anyone can beat anyone at particular day, but chances of victory would be like Spain-France 55-45, Spain-Serbia 60-40, Spain-Lithuania 65-35. You get the idea.

3. Croatia, Brasil, Argentina. Croatia looked good and i'm in big doubt. I wanted to put Croatia in second group, didn't put in only because they brake in elimination round for last decade. But I wouldn't be surprised if that would be their tournament. Brasil next because I don't think home walls is such a factor, it can be a distraction and additional pressure (call it a scar of EC2011 :) ). Argentina is the third because they are really old... And their old stars don't have strong supporting crew.

4. Venezuela, Nigeria, China.

I am very surprised people think Lithuania will have weaker team when in EC2015. Are you serious? Valanciunas improved hugely, Kuzminskas improved hugely, Kalnietis looks much much better compared to the last year, Jankunas had a great season and looks at his peak, Maciulis is simply Maciulis, finally we have some young PG/SG/SF (Marius Grigonis, Edgaras Ulanovas) who has size, spead and strength to guard their oponents and give 10-15 min. rest to main players - Kalnietis was barely walking last year in the semifinal and final playing all tournament 35 min. per game and we are worse? Someone is not thinking. And all that cry about friendly games... Is it a joke? Seibutis didn't look good last year in friendlies, but was saving our asses against Serbia with his one on one game, Domantas Sabonis looked great in friendlies last year so what? Who remembers Vasiliauskas who looked fantastic in friendly games? The way how players spend their season is much better indicator. We have much more balanced team and we are worse? Ok believe what you want.

G&B
07-14-2016, 07:24 PM
I also believe that everything will be fine, although Motiejunas loss is a great loss, but I believe that Kazlauskas prepare 99% of the remaining players.

And if this team medals disaster it will be a failure.

Jon_Koncak
07-14-2016, 07:32 PM
At least the USA is going to have some tough opponents as of the QF as well as in the group phase. In the last two international tournaments they played some good teams starting the semi's.

I will be supporting every team who plays against the USA. The last time they lost was a decade ago already. Only France, Serbia and Spain stand a chance in beating them.

Forget it man.Noone will stop USA's domination.Bad news for the rest of the wolrd but the times of USA sending teams led by Shawn Marion,Richard Jefferson or the corpse of Reggie Miller are long gone and arent coming back.The moment USA understood the importance of 3 point play it was game over for the rest of the world..Cant wait to see euro teams against a line up of Irving-Klay-George-Durant-Green..it's gonna be fun.

Ashtrusis_dantis
07-14-2016, 07:42 PM
And if this team medals disaster it will be a failure.

What? You mean if this team will not win medals it will be a failure? I don't think so. There are 8 teams who can win medals, 7 of them are almost the same level and there are only 3 medals (ok, most realistically 2), so not wining a medal will not be a disaster. Not getting out of a group would be a disaster.

G&B
07-14-2016, 08:01 PM
What? You mean if this team would not win medals it will be a failure? I don't think so. There are 8 teams who can win medals, 7 of them are almost the same level and there are only 3 medals (ok, most realistically 2), so not wining a medal will not be a disaster. Not getting out of a group would be a disaster.


Well, we now have a more complete team than the silvery EC 2013 and EC-2015 and especially the 2014 CM. Essentially, the EC is still above the level of the OG and especially CM, since the EC is not a command tourists. So OG and CM contribute one extra class team, the other is below the class, such as Venezuela is South America's champion, but is it better than OG unpublished Greece, Italy?

So bronze medals as EC vice-champion of the last two would be minimum OG.

Ashtrusis_dantis
07-14-2016, 08:10 PM
Well, we now have a more complete team than the silvery EC 2013 and EC-2015 and especially the 2014 CM. Essentially, the EC is still above the level of the OG and especially CM, since the EC is not a command tourists. So OG and CM contribute one extra class team, the other is below the class, such as Venezuela is South America's champion, but is it better than OG unpublished Greece, Italy?

So bronze medals as EC vice-champion of the last two would be minimum OG.

Man, it seems like you just learn basics of mathematics and are trying to use it to calculate result in basketball in different tournaments... OG is stronger when EC no doubt, you forgot how our group looked in EC? There are only 12 teams in OG and tournament is shorter and much more intense. There is no time to use the same tactic we used in EC "lets calculate and reach our peak in 1/4". Every game is live or die and in our death group you have to be at peak from the first game.

Steadysoul
07-14-2016, 08:32 PM
Forget it man.Noone will stop USA's domination.Bad news for the rest of the wolrd but the times of USA sending teams led by Shawn Marion,Richard Jefferson or the corpse of Reggie Miller are long gone and arent coming back.The moment USA understood the importance of 3 point play it was game over for the rest of the world..Cant wait to see euro teams against a line up of Irving-Klay-George-Durant-Green..it's gonna be fun.

everyone thinks Green will start but I would put some money on Cousins starting over him and Green either being the starting 4 or the backup 4.

G&B
07-14-2016, 08:35 PM
Man, it seems like you just learn basics of mathematics and are trying to use it to calculate result in basketball in different tournaments... OG is stronger when EC no doubt, you forgot how our group looked in EC? There are only 12 teams in OG and tournament is shorter and much more intense. There is no time to use the same tactic we used in EC "lets calculate and reach our peak in 1/4". Every game is live or die and in our death group you have to be at peak from the first game.


Do you think, that about it dont know Kazlauskas and his team?
Before the EC has been the physical shape and exercise load, as required strained longer match schedule, now practically already on Monday will begin command shape and combinations of harmonization of improvement.

madmax
07-14-2016, 08:54 PM
Forget it man.Noone will stop USA's domination.Bad news for the rest of the wolrd but the times of USA sending teams led by Shawn Marion,Richard Jefferson or the corpse of Reggie Miller are long gone and arent coming back.The moment USA understood the importance of 3 point play it was game over for the rest of the world..Cant wait to see euro teams against a line up of Irving-Klay-George-Durant-Green..it's gonna be fun.

on a same note, 2004 and 2006 US teams had players like Iverson, Duncan, Wade, Anthony and LBJ on their roster and still lost...I think the main difference here is the coaching change, not the players' selection. If US team still had NBA coach leading them, their chances of falling short would increase dramatically

unnamed
07-14-2016, 09:46 PM
Forget it man.Noone will stop USA's domination.Bad news for the rest of the wolrd but the times of USA sending teams led by Shawn Marion,Richard Jefferson or the corpse of Reggie Miller are long gone and arent coming back.The moment USA understood the importance of 3 point play it was game over for the rest of the world..Cant wait to see euro teams against a line up of Irving-Klay-George-Durant-Green..it's gonna be fun.
I agree. USA is nearly twice as better then 2nd best team in this group - France. Difference between Serbia and France is not big, excluding Ajinca. Difference between Serbia and Australia is larger then France and Serbia. I did some statistics and I gotten following strength ratio:

1, USA
2. France (1.89x weaker then USA)
3. Serbia (1.02x weaker then France)
4. Australia (1.19x weaker then Serbia)

usagre
07-15-2016, 03:26 AM
everyone thinks Green will start but I would put some money on Cousins starting over him and Green either being the starting 4 or the backup 4.

I am sure Cousins will start but I would bet my house that Green gets more minutes than him. Historically nba USA centers never get even 20 minutes per game dating back to 1992.
Green is gonna get a lot of minutes at the 4 and 5 positions.

usagre
07-15-2016, 03:34 AM
Forget it man.Noone will stop USA's domination.Bad news for the rest of the wolrd but the times of USA sending teams led by Shawn Marion,Richard Jefferson or the corpse of Reggie Miller are long gone and arent coming back.The moment USA understood the importance of 3 point play it was game over for the rest of the world..Cant wait to see euro teams against a line up of Irving-Klay-George-Durant-Green..it's gonna be fun.

I agree that 5 man unit is the death lineup.
I think the keys to USA dominance are
- 3 point shot
- taking tournaments serious using set rotations
- and like you said sending better players.

usagre
07-15-2016, 05:12 AM
on a same note, 2004 and 2006 US teams had players like Iverson, Duncan, Wade, Anthony and LBJ on their roster and still lost...I think the main difference here is the coaching change, not the players' selection. If US team still had NBA coach leading them, their chances of falling short would increase dramatically

It's not coaching. When the USA sends it's A team or best possible roster the coach is completely irrelevant. They will win the tournament 99% of the time. It's all about the players. I am glad you left out 2002 because that was a C roster.
Only Paul Pierce was an Nba top 20 player on that team. As for 2004 only Duncan and Iverson were top players with the remaining 6 rotation guys clearly also C quality players. The team was also poorly constructed with no outside shooting so the opponents clogged the paint and negated Duncan and Iverson. 2006 was a unique situation in which the team did consist of Wade, Anthony and James, but the point guard position was weak. A rookie Chris Paul backed up by Kirk Hinrich was C level. 2004 point guard play was also terrible with Marbury backed up by an out of position rookie Wade. But the loss to Greece was due to excellent backcourt play and perfect execution of their offense. Couple that with the USA taking Greece for granted as Argentina was the perceived main threat and to a lesser degree Spain entering that tournament.
So to me it's always been about the players you assemble.

Just to clarify what I mean by the A, B, C quality classifications.
A= top 8-9 rotation players
B= next 8-9 rotation players
C= 3rd best possible collection of 8 or 9 players.

SashKX
07-15-2016, 06:06 AM
I agree. USA is nearly twice as better then 2nd best team in this group - France. Difference between Serbia and France is not big, excluding Ajinca. Difference between Serbia and Australia is larger then France and Serbia. I did some statistics and I gotten following strength ratio:

1, USA
2. France (1.89x weaker then USA)
3. Serbia (1.02x weaker then France)
4. Australia (1.19x weaker then Serbia)

I'm really curious how did you come up with these numbers when this team USA in this setup has never played this French team, and if they did I have no idea how is it possible to determine with a decimal precision exactly how much better one team is than the other. I'm sure you're making a lot of money from betting if you have this figured out.

Mindozas
07-15-2016, 07:37 AM
I'm really curious how did you come up with these numbers when this team USA in this setup has never played this French team, and if they did I have no idea how is it possible to determine with a decimal precision exactly how much better one team is than the other. I'm sure you're making a lot of money from betting if you have this figured out.

As he wrote - statistics. Of course, there's sayin': stats like bikinis - what they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. If we were on betting forum - sure, in team sports it's most of the times useless or misleading, nowadays teams changes just too much to base smth on historical h2h results, but since we just a basketball forum, it's kinda fun to see some, discuss about it, no harm done

SashKX
07-15-2016, 08:20 AM
As he wrote - statistics. Of course, there's sayin': stats like bikinis - what they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. If we were on betting forum - sure, in team sports it's most of the times useless or misleading, nowadays teams chances just too much to base smth on historical h2h results, but since we just just basketball forum, it's kinda fun to see some, discuss about it, no harm done

I have seen people make predictions based on historical match ups from 30 years ago, or bring up FIBA rankings, and things of that sort do count as statistics, so I'm wondering what statistics exactly is he talking about. I'm guessing it's probably individual player stats, but then again, what stats? Is it one of various performance indexes used, or just averaged points, rebounds and assists? I'm doing this for the fun too, just debating about predictions, in this case about one that kinda stands out.

unnamed
07-15-2016, 09:05 AM
I'm really curious how did you come up with these numbers when this team USA in this setup has never played this French team, and if they did I have no idea how is it possible to determine with a decimal precision exactly how much better one team is than the other. I'm sure you're making a lot of money from betting if you have this figured out.

I've used some stats from players performance in NBA and Euroleague(both regular season and playoffs). Of course when I put ULEB stats, some strength ratios will change, so this is not yet final strength before game 1. It will also change as tournament goes on, as I'll take input from tournament performances. The method I used proved to be good, I've even made a good prediction that Serbia would lose against Lithuania at previous Eurobasket or that Czech will beat Croatia.

Victorious
07-15-2016, 09:22 AM
It's not coaching. When the USA sends it's A team or best possible roster the coach is completely irrelevant. They will win the tournament 99% of the time. It's all about the players. I am glad you left out 2002 because that was a C roster.
Only Paul Pierce was an Nba top 20 player on that team. As for 2004 only Duncan and Iverson were top players with the remaining 6 rotation guys clearly also C quality players. The team was also poorly constructed with no outside shooting so the opponents clogged the paint and negated Duncan and Iverson. 2006 was a unique situation in which the team did consist of Wade, Anthony and James, but the point guard position was weak. A rookie Chris Paul backed up by Kirk Hinrich was C level. 2004 point guard play was also terrible with Marbury backed up by an out of position rookie Wade. But the loss to Greece was due to excellent backcourt play and perfect execution of their offense. Couple that with the USA taking Greece for granted as Argentina was the perceived main threat and to a lesser degree Spain entering that tournament.
So to me it's always been about the players you assemble.

Just to clarify what I mean by the A, B, C quality classifications.
A= top 8-9 rotation players
B= next 8-9 rotation players
C= 3rd best possible collection of 8 or 9 players.

Still, Spain did come close to beating USA twice during the last two Olympics and you never really know.

Teams with an excellent set of top level guards can make it very hard for the US to beat them.

I think this years USA team can be beaten. At least some teams can make their life miserable.

usagre
07-15-2016, 12:04 PM
Still, Spain did come close to beating USA twice during the last two Olympics and you never really know.

Teams with an excellent set of top level guards can make it very hard for the US to beat them.

I think this years USA team can be beaten. At least some teams can make their life miserable.

In a one game scenario I agree you definitely never know. Spain was extremely competitive in those two finals but I wouldn't say they almost beat USA. In 2012 Spain never got closer than within 6 points in the final 6 minutes. The preliminary round game against Lithuania was actually closer with Lithuania trailing by only 1 point with 4 minutes left. The 2008 final was closer than 2012 final but Spain never made it a one possession game late. They were within 4 points with 2 minutes left when the Wade hit a 3 and the USA won going away.
This edition of team USA is weaker than both the 2008 and 2012 teams but I would also say that there are no potential opponents as strong as 2008 and 2012 Spain either.

Steadysoul
07-15-2016, 02:24 PM
In a one game scenario I agree you definitely never know. Spain was extremely competitive in those two finals but I wouldn't say they almost beat USA. In 2012 Spain never got closer than within 6 points in the final 6 minutes. The preliminary round game against Lithuania was actually closer with Lithuania trailing by only 1 point with 4 minutes left. The 2008 final was closer than 2012 final but Spain never made it a one possession game late. They were within 4 points with 2 minutes left when the Wade hit a 3 and the USA won going away.
This edition of team USA is weaker than both the 2008 and 2012 teams but I would also say that there are no potential opponents as strong as 2008 and 2012 Spain either.

Idk if they are worse(because we haven't seen them play) they are certainly less experienced but that's not the worst thing. Barnes is the only player on this team to not be all NBA something. 2012 that was Iggy(Who was traded in the middle of the tournament) and Davis(who had not played an NBA game yet). Technically Harden too but I'd count 6th man of the year.

usagre
07-15-2016, 02:31 PM
Idk if they are worse(because we haven't seen them play) they are certainly less experienced but that's not the worst thing. Barnes is the only player on this team to not be all NBA something. 2012 that was Iggy(Who was traded in the middle of the tournament) and Davis(who had not played an NBA game yet). Technically Harden too but I'd count 6th man of the year.

True but I am saying on paper going into the tournaments. 2008 and 2012 I think we're clearly better on paper. Those teams had the best available players of their time like a Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Chris Paul ect. This year they are missing guys like Curry, James, Leonard, Westbrook, and others who if available would supplant players on the team. You can't really say that for the most part about the 2008 and 2012 teams. And I don't really focus on the bottom 3 of the rosters because they never play any significant role in the meaningful knockout games. So those guys are pretty much irrelevant unless you focus on the importance of padding the scores late in games.

Hepcat
07-15-2016, 06:00 PM
If US team still had NBA coach leading them, their chances of falling short would increase dramatically


It's not coaching. When the USA sends it's A team or best possible roster the coach is completely irrelevant. They will win the tournament 99% of the time. It's all about the players.

I agree with Madmax. It's no accident that the USA team reestablished its dominance once Coach K took over. A key piece of evidence here is that in any game where Coach K has to make half-time adjustments, Team USA has come out playing much better in the second half.

vuxsa
07-17-2016, 11:21 AM
Well many put Serbia in tier 2 along with Spain, France (and maybe) Lithuania, I guess we're now for tier 3.

CoachZ
07-17-2016, 12:17 PM
More injuries could happen, so things could change. We are weaker now, I wouldn't say so much that we cannot still have a good result, but we will have to play at 100% every single game. Here is how I would rank the teams.

Tier 1
USA - Bar None

Tier 2a
Spain
France

Tier 2b
Serbia
Lithuania

Tier 3
Croatia
Argentina
Australia
Brazil

Tier 4
Nigeria

Tier 5
Venezuela
China

Picek
07-17-2016, 03:31 PM
losing last years (Fenerbahce) Bjelica is a loss.
losing Bjelica who played his last game in april, who didn't practice 'cause of injury and who had a bad first season in NBA?
even if he was cleared to play no one can know which Bjelica would show up and how affected with injury he would be?
the only mistake Đorđević made was that he waited too long, he should have known this was a possibility.

usagre
07-17-2016, 03:46 PM
He didn't have a bad year in the Nba. He was a rotation player who had a difficult time on the defensive end. But all in all I think he was fine considering the adjustment. And obviously it's hard to compare his Euroleague season the previous year to his rookie nba season because the competition is night and day.

Picek
07-17-2016, 04:48 PM
He didn't have a bad year in the Nba. He was a rotation player who had a difficult time on the defensive end. But all in all I think he was fine considering the adjustment. And obviously it's hard to compare his Euroleague season the previous year to his rookie nba season because the competition is night and day.reigning euroleague MVP in a team with 29-53 record and only 18 min per game?
regardless of Towns, Garnett etc. he deserved more..

usagre
07-17-2016, 04:55 PM
reigning euroleague MVP in a team with 29-53 record and only 18 min per game?
regardless of Towns, Garnett etc. he deserved more..

You have a point. But a lot has to do with injuries and he was constantly having problems on the defensive end.
Before his injuries started for the first 12 games of the season he actually averaged 26.5 minutes.

CoachZ
07-17-2016, 05:04 PM
You have a point. But a lot has to do with injuries and he was constantly having problems on the defensive end.
Before his injuries started for the first 12 games of the season he actually averaged 26.5 minutes.

Actually I think it had much more to do with the fact that he was ICE COLD after the first 20 games. He basically couldn't hit shit. So they just wrote him out of the offense. So when his minutes dropped, he got also like 2 shots a game. Noone can post stats with that usage. :D

usagre
07-17-2016, 05:12 PM
Actually I think it had much more to do with the fact that he was ICE COLD after the first 20 games. He basically couldn't hit shit. So they just wrote him out of the offense. So when his minutes dropped, he got also like 2 shots a game. Noone can post stats with that usage. :D

I think you're right. I looked it up. He played 60 games. His first 30 he averaged more minutes but shot 42% and 33% from 3. His next 30 games he shot 52% and 45% from 3.

IronUnion
07-30-2016, 10:28 AM
I got my own system. I put every player from a roster in different tier, according to his level and then count all the points. For instance, Kevin Durant - tier 1a. 3.5 mastership points. I count all USA Rosters points and got 37 mastership points. 42 is a top limit. My power list is:

1. USA. 37 points (roster) and 17 (starting five)
2. Spain. 25.5 and 12
3. France. 24.5 and 13
4-5. Serbia. 20 and 9.5
4-5. Lithuania. 20 and 9.5-10
6. Croatia. 19.5 and 9-10
7. Australia. 19 and 9.5
8. Brazil. 18 and 10
9. Argentina. 16.5 and 8.5
10. Nigeria. 14-15 and 7-8 (unknown final roster)
11. China. 13 and 6-7
12. Venezuela. 9 and 6-7

Now i put teams in tiers:

1. Gold medals with 90-100% accuracy: USA
2a. High chances to win medals: Spain, France
2b. Quite good chances to win medals: Serbia, Lithuania, Croatia, Australia.
2c. Smaller chances to win medals: Brazil, Argentina.
3a. No chances to win medals, but they will be hard nuts to win against: Nigeria.
3b. No chances to win medals, they will supply competitors with cheap points: China, Venezuela.

https://keturtaskis.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/2016-uju-rio-olimpiados-krepsinio-rinktiniu-galios-palyginimas/
This is my article on this theme, but in lithuanian language, not english.

CoachZ
07-30-2016, 10:58 AM
I got my own system. I put every player from a roster in different tier, according to his level and then count all the points. For instance, Kevin Durant - tier 1a. 3.5 mastership points. I count all USA Rosters points and got 37 mastership points. 42 is a top limit. My power list is:

1. USA. 37 points (roster) and 17 (starting five)
2. Spain. 25.5 and 12
3. France. 24.5 and 13
4-5. Serbia. 20 and 9.5
4-5. Lithuania. 20 and 9.5-10
6. Croatia. 19.5 and 9-10
7. Australia. 19 and 9.5
8. Brazil. 18 and 10
9. Argentina. 16.5 and 8.5
10. Nigeria. 14-15 and 7-8 (unknown final roster)
11. China. 13 and 6-7
12. Venezuela. 9 and 6-7

Now i put teams in tiers:

1. Gold medals with 90-100% accuracy: USA
2a. High chances to win medals: Spain, France
2b. Quite good chances to win medals: Serbia, Lithuania, Croatia, Australia.
2c. Smaller chances to win medals: Brazil, Argentina.
3a. No chances to win medals, but they will be hard nuts to win against: Nigeria.
3b. No chances to win medals, they will supply competitors with cheap points: China, Venezuela.

https://keturtaskis.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/2016-uju-rio-olimpiados-krepsinio-rinktiniu-galios-palyginimas/
This is my article on this theme, but in lithuanian language, not english.

So basically you make power rankings based on player quality and nothing else? No scheme, style of play etc etc etc. So for example a team with 3 NBA high level players and two total retards in the starting five still scores high??? That makes very very little sense. I would to see in which tiers you ranked players for the each team. That would be great. :D

kosicar
07-30-2016, 12:43 PM
So basically you make power rankings based on player quality and nothing else? No scheme, style of play etc etc etc. So for example a team with 3 NBA high level players and two total retards in the starting five still scores high??? That makes very very little sense. I would to see in which tiers you ranked players for the each team. That would be great. :D

You have that in posted link. It is in Lithuanian, but it is easily understandable..

remigijus
07-30-2016, 01:51 PM
Olympic Rankings according to bleacherreport

1. United States

2. France

3. Spain

4. Lithuania

5. Australia

6. Serbia

7. Brazil

8. Argentina

9. Croatia

10. Nigeria

11. Venezuela

12. China

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2654203-ranking-team-usa-and-each-mens-basketball-team-headed-to-2016-summer-olympics

CoachZ
07-30-2016, 02:06 PM
You have that in posted link. It is in Lithuanian, but it is easily understandable..

Yeah just seen it. As soon as I saw Sabonis and Jankunas in same tier with Bogdanovic and Teodosic, I stopped reading. Also using NBA2K ratings to rate players, that is just :D :D :D

unnamed
07-30-2016, 02:26 PM
I got my own system. I put every player from a roster in different tier, according to his level and then count all the points. For instance, Kevin Durant - tier 1a. 3.5 mastership points. I count all USA Rosters points and got 37 mastership points. 42 is a top limit. My power list is:

1. USA. 37 points (roster) and 17 (starting five)
2. Spain. 25.5 and 12
3. France. 24.5 and 13
4-5. Serbia. 20 and 9.5
4-5. Lithuania. 20 and 9.5-10
6. Croatia. 19.5 and 9-10
7. Australia. 19 and 9.5
8. Brazil. 18 and 10
9. Argentina. 16.5 and 8.5
10. Nigeria. 14-15 and 7-8 (unknown final roster)
11. China. 13 and 6-7
12. Venezuela. 9 and 6-7

Now i put teams in tiers:

1. Gold medals with 90-100% accuracy: USA
2a. High chances to win medals: Spain, France
2b. Quite good chances to win medals: Serbia, Lithuania, Croatia, Australia.
2c. Smaller chances to win medals: Brazil, Argentina.
3a. No chances to win medals, but they will be hard nuts to win against: Nigeria.
3b. No chances to win medals, they will supply competitors with cheap points: China, Venezuela.

https://keturtaskis.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/2016-uju-rio-olimpiados-krepsinio-rinktiniu-galios-palyginimas/
This is my article on this theme, but in lithuanian language, not english.

Similar to what I use, except I don't rate the players based on my own opinion, but rather the offensive performance through the season. Now because there are many players from NBA, Euroleague and Eurocup I take top 100 players of the league (taking into account average playing time as well), find the correlation and get the leagues ratio(NBA/Euroleague, Euroleague/Eurocup). Then I make two categories TOP 7 and TOP 8 players of the team and I expect them to play 80% in most of the matches. After that I find max(TOP 7, TOP 8) and thats basically the strength of the team. Starting five alone can't be decisive, that's why I take two-three subs.

Hepcat
07-30-2016, 03:05 PM
So basically you make power rankings based on player quality and nothing else? No scheme, style of play etc etc etc.

I agree. You can't extrapolate to a team rating from individual player ratings, particularly if these player ratings come from NBA2K.

vuxsa
07-30-2016, 04:29 PM
Olympic Rankings according to bleacherreport

1. United States

2. France

3. Spain

4. Lithuania

5. Australia

6. Serbia

7. Brazil

8. Argentina

9. Croatia

10. Nigeria

11. Venezuela

12. China

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2654203-ranking-team-usa-and-each-mens-basketball-team-headed-to-2016-summer-olympics

Read it. Looks like a total moron wrote it. Lets count each team number of NBA players and voila, there you have the realative strength of the team

Srle
07-30-2016, 04:33 PM
Australia is awful lol

usagre
07-30-2016, 04:40 PM
Australia is awful lol

I agree. I don't understand why everyone always overrates them.
They never do anything in these tournaments.

Hepcat
07-30-2016, 06:20 PM
Read it. Looks like a total moron wrote it. Lets count each team number of NBA players and voila, there you have the realative strength of the team

That sums it up alright.

Srle
07-30-2016, 06:25 PM
I agree. I don't understand why everyone always overrates them.
They never do anything in these tournaments.

The thing is they only play series with New Zealand to qualify for big tournaments. Of course in few years they could be in the upper echelon with Simmons,Exum and some of their other talented players, but right now they are not that good, average at best.

IronUnion
07-30-2016, 07:31 PM
Yeah just seen it. As soon as I saw Sabonis and Jankunas in same tier with Bogdanovic and Teodosic, I stopped reading. Also using NBA2K ratings to rate players, that is just :D :D :D


I thought about this. If i put Teodosic with NBA stars in one tier, that would be unfair, because he is not playing together. Also he is weak in defence. He is playing with europeans. This is lower level. Then i got to include Rodriguez, Heurtel, Bogdanovic and probably more players in to one tier. So why are they not playing in NBA? So i gave only two points for all european stars. I think, Sabonis and Jankunas, they are good players and they do belong to the one tier. Sabonis 2k17 rate is 72, 2k15 Jankunas - 72-74 (15.5 EFF in 2015/2016 Euroleague season), Teodosic - 76 (17.7 EFF), Bogdanovic (12.5 EFF), Bjelica - 72. If i put Sabonis and Jankunas in to lower tier, this would mean they the same level as players from south America or Australia, playing in local weaker leagues. Sabonis is playing great, also like Hernangomez or Abrines (NBA carrers). They are worth to be together in european star level. Well, im trying to be objective for all national teams. what to do with Kalnietis? He has only 1.5 points, but he provide good playing for Lithuania and that is worth more points, but my counts are based on statistics, except high level NBA players. He is lower level than Teodosic. If i gave 1.5 for Kalnietis and 2.5 points for teodosic, that would be realy unfair. And Maciulis with 1.5 points and 54 Eff in game against Georgia.

NBA stars are more worthy than Europeans stars, but many NBA players does not mean that this roster will be better than team with just one NBA player. Check Serbia with 20 points and just 1 NBA player and check Brazil with 5 NBA players and only 18 points. Another thing, i use 2K ratings just to be sure i put NBA players in to right tiers. For instance, Calderon plays 28 min per game, but he has only 72-73 2K rating. Nicola Jokic plays only 20 min per game, but he has 77 2K rating. Jokic is realy better level than veteran Calderon. So i gave 2.5 points for Jokic, and 2 points for Calderon.

CoachZ
07-30-2016, 11:08 PM
I thought about this. If i put Teodosic with NBA stars in one tier, that would be unfair, because he is not playing together. Also he is weak in defence. He is playing with europeans. This is lower level. Then i got to include Rodriguez, Heurtel, Bogdanovic and probably more players in to one tier. So why are they not playing in NBA? So i gave only two points for all european stars. I think, Sabonis and Jankunas, they are good players and they do belong to the one tier. Sabonis 2k17 rate is 72, 2k15 Jankunas - 72-74 (15.5 EFF in 2015/2016 Euroleague season), Teodosic - 76 (17.7 EFF), Bogdanovic (12.5 EFF), Bjelica - 72. If i put Sabonis and Jankunas in to lower tier, this would mean they the same level as players from south America or Australia, playing in local weaker leagues. Sabonis is playing great, also like Hernangomez or Abrines (NBA carrers). They are worth to be together in european star level. Well, im trying to be objective for all national teams. what to do with Kalnietis? He has only 1.5 points, but he provide good playing for Lithuania and that is worth more points, but my counts are based on statistics, except high level NBA players. He is lower level than Teodosic. If i gave 1.5 for Kalnietis and 2.5 points for teodosic, that would be realy unfair. And Maciulis with 1.5 points and 54 Eff in game against Georgia.

NBA stars are more worthy than Europeans stars, but many NBA players does not mean that this roster will be better than team with just one NBA player. Check Serbia with 20 points and just 1 NBA player and check Brazil with 5 NBA players and only 18 points. Another thing, i use 2K ratings just to be sure i put NBA players in to right tiers. For instance, Calderon plays 28 min per game, but he has only 72-73 2K rating. Nicola Jokic plays only 20 min per game, but he has 77 2K rating. Jokic is realy better level than veteran Calderon. So i gave 2.5 points for Jokic, and 2 points for Calderon.

Teodosic doesn't want to play in NBA unless it's his choice and under his terms. He has refused NBA offers for last 5 years. Every year they want him. Bogdanovic is going next year to Sacramento. Smart to hold out for bigger contract and not to play in Phoenix in that backfield.

Using video game rating is ridiculous. Also being in NBA is not always the right representation of current skill level of a player. Sabonis is a player WITH ZERO SERIOUS basketball games in the professional waters. He was given a rating based on what? His play at Gonzaga? This is just laughable. Also I repeat, ranking teams based only on player quality, rather then how they play together is not the way to go.

We can agree on a tier system for players something like this:

Tier 1 - NBA All-Pro Megastars (Top 6-7 players in NBA like Durant, Curry, LeBron, Westbrook etc...)
Tier 2 - NBA All-Stars (rest of NBA all star level players)
Tier 3 - Quality NBA Starters + Euroleague superstars
Tier 4 - NBA Role Players + Euroleague all stars
Tier 5 - NBA Scrubs and Rookies + Euroleague Starters + Youngsters/High Upside guys
Tier 6 - The rest

Something like that, and then rank players not based on their 2k ratings, or retarded things like PER. Think about their real quality, how they are suited for FIBA play, system they play in, coaches etc. etc. Then rank the teams. Teodosic cannot be mentioned in the same sentence with Sabonis or Jankunas, maybe some years down the line we can talk about it. Now, it's laughable.

IronUnion
07-31-2016, 06:28 AM
Teodosic doesn't want to play in NBA unless it's his choice and under his terms. He has refused NBA offers for last 5 years. Every year they want him. Bogdanovic is going next year to Sacramento. Smart to hold out for bigger contract and not to play in Phoenix in that backfield.

Using video game rating is ridiculous. Also being in NBA is not always the right representation of current skill level of a player. Sabonis is a player WITH ZERO SERIOUS basketball games in the professional waters. He was given a rating based on what? His play at Gonzaga? This is just laughable. Also I repeat, ranking teams based only on player quality, rather then how they play together is not the way to go.

We can agree on a tier system for players something like this:

Tier 1 - NBA All-Pro Megastars (Top 6-7 players in NBA like Durant, Curry, LeBron, Westbrook etc...)
Tier 2 - NBA All-Stars (rest of NBA all star level players)
Tier 3 - Quality NBA Starters + Euroleague superstars
Tier 4 - NBA Role Players + Euroleague all stars
Tier 5 - NBA Scrubs and Rookies + Euroleague Starters + Youngsters/High Upside guys
Tier 6 - The rest

Something like that, and then rank players not based on their 2k ratings, or retarded things like PER. Think about their real quality, how they are suited for FIBA play, system they play in, coaches etc. etc. Then rank the teams. Teodosic cannot be mentioned in the same sentence with Sabonis or Jankunas, maybe some years down the line we can talk about it. Now, it's laughable.

Thanks. I will remake that in one week. If this is closer to the reality, but i cannot overvalue european stars, because USA will crush europeans by 20-40 points

G&B
07-31-2016, 06:40 AM
Why Teodosić ranking higher than the Kalnietis? Kalnietis all mutual duels won against Teodosić, even more in the last official tournament Kalnietis statistics are better.

Picek
07-31-2016, 06:47 AM
Why Teodosić ranking higher than the Kalnietis? Kalnietis all mutual duels won against Teodosić, even more in the last official tournament Kalnietis statistics are better.

You are joking, right?

Mindozas
07-31-2016, 04:00 PM
Now I even don't know what's worse. G&B with his rankings and similar stuff or people still reacting to it

Ashtrusis_dantis
07-31-2016, 08:35 PM
Now I even don't know what's worse. G&B with his rankings and similar stuff or people still reacting to it

Ou common, G&B is what? 12? 14? How clever was you at that age? Wait 10 more years and he will be rational young man. ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wVCK-CV5do

ncjazz
08-01-2016, 01:16 AM
I agree. I don't understand why everyone always overrates them.
They never do anything in these tournaments.

I still would not sleep on the Boomers. Ingles was missing from the NT for a while but is back and of course Bogut just came back. Do I need to mention Delly? ;)

Dtown
08-01-2016, 01:58 AM
I feel the Boomers will do what they always do, just make the knock out stage and put up a respectable fight against what ever 1st seed comes out of the other group. The only good thing for them is that they're guaranteed not to play the US in that knockout game for once.

aussieasker
08-01-2016, 03:38 AM
Australia is capable of beating every team other than the USA. The problem is they are also probably capable of losing to every team in the tournament (although they'd beat China, Venezuela and Nigeria most times that they play them). They are also unlikely to consistently beat good teams, which you have to do if you want to medal. Hopefully Simmons, Exum, Maker, etc. will eventually lift the team to a new level.

G&B
08-01-2016, 06:28 AM
You are joking, right?

All the latest Kalnietis-Teodosić between games:
2015
LTU - silver medal
SRB- IV place
semifinal LTU- SRB 67:64
Kalnietis PPG-12; APG-9; RPG-5 all games PPG-10.6; APG-7,8; RPG-2.9.
Teodosić PPG-16; APG-3; RPG-3 all games PPG-11.8; APG-7.1; RPG-2.7.


2014
Kalnietis did not play because of an injury

2013

LTU - silver medal
SRB- VII place
Group LTU- SRB 56:63
Statistics have not found, but it is not as important as this race group,but the Kalnietis was one of the main guides to silver medal


2012

Serbia does not come into OG

2011

LTU - V place
SRB- VIII place
group LTU- SRB 100: 90
Statistics have not found, but it is not as important as this race group.

2010

LTU - bronze medals
SRB- IV place
Little finale LTU- SRB 99:88
Statistics have not found, but the Kalnietis was one of the main guides to victory


and what is this joker?

Shawshank
08-01-2016, 06:54 AM
All the latest Kalnietis-Teodosić between games:
2015
LTU - silver medal
SRB- IV place
semifinal LTU- SRB 67:64
Kalnietis PPG-12; APG-9; RPG-5 all games PPG-10.6; APG-7,8; RPG-2.9.
Teodosić PPG-16; APG-3; RPG-3 all games PPG-11.8; APG-7.1; RPG-2.7.


2014
Kalnietis did not play because of an injury

2013

LTU - silver medal
SRB- VII place
Group LTU- SRB 56:63
Statistics have not found, but it is not as important as this race group,but the Kalnietis was one of the main guides to silver medal


2012

Serbia does not come into OG

2011

LTU - V place
SRB- VIII place
group LTU- SRB 100: 90
Statistics have not found, but it is not as important as this race group.

2010

LTU - bronze medals
SRB- IV place
Little finale LTU- SRB 99:88
Statistics have not found, but the Kalnietis was one of the main guides to victory


and what is this joker?

Men stopped :) Teodosic is best Europe PG offensively.Defensively he sucks that is proven.But compare him to Kalnietis is funny.Kalnietis is obviuos atleast level behind...

What comes to national team games,its a bit diffrent story Kalnietis always played very well for national team,way better than in clubs.Thats why i like him very much,when he wears our national team jersey he leaves everything he got out there...playing 35minutes per game .

Teodosic plays better for clubs,not national team.



I will give you that : in period 2010-2015 Lithuania-Serbia battles i dont remember Teo obviuosly outplaying Mantas in head to head matches,usually it was close,but Lithuania won more games againts Teodosic Serbia.And PG must take some blame for that,because Serbia didnt have less talented teams in those years than Lithuania.

G&B
08-01-2016, 07:18 AM
Men stopped :) Teodosic is best Europe PG offensively.Defensively he sucks that is proven.But compare him to Kalnietis is funny.Kalnietis is obviuos atleast level behind...

What comes to national team games,its a bit diffrent story Kalnietis always played very well for national team,way better than in clubs.Thats why i like him very much,when he wears our national team jersey he leaves everything he got out there...playing 35minutes per game .

Teodosic plays better for clubs,not national team.



I will give you that : in period 2010-2015 Lithuania-Serbia battles i dont remember Teo obviuosly outplaying Mantas in head to head matches,usually it was close,but Lithuania won more games againts Teodosic Serbia.And PG must take some blame for that,because Serbia didnt have less talented teams in those years than Lithuania.


It is talking only about the national competition and the role of players in them. Competition in club teams anyone tame when it comes to national teams and top-level match.

vuxsa
08-01-2016, 07:36 AM
Men stopped :)

Teodosic plays better for clubs,not national team.



Teodosic plays good for NT, you'd do him wrong by saying he plays better for clubs. His wish to play for NT and what he gives is at least legit as Kalnietis's.

Saying that Kalnietis is better player is simply wishful thinking. Of course he is good, just that Teo is better. No dubious statistics can overthrow that😊

LDK
08-01-2016, 08:20 AM
I like Serbia teem this year. For me they look more dangerous for us than Spain. Its because they had amazing guard duo with Teo+Bogda. Also Jokic would be pain in the ass for JV with his mid range shots. I saw one game in NBA between them and Jokic dominated against JV. The only advantage for us could be in SF position, as I think both teams has no difference makers in PF position. If this team could have Bjelica and Boban in my opinion it would be 2nd team after USA.

EDIT: what is the situation with Teo and Nedovic? Our media said, that Nedovic injury could be serious..

Shawshank
08-01-2016, 08:39 AM
Teodosic plays good for NT, you'd do him wrong by saying he plays better for clubs. His wish to play for NT and what he gives is at least legit as Kalnietis's.

Saying that Kalnietis is better player is simply wishful thinking. Of course he is good, just that Teo is better. No dubious statistics can overthrow that��

I dont argue that, Teo wants and always plays for Serbia,but for some reasons he plays for his club better.

When Kalnietis with ltu jersey plays 2 times better than in club.His performances in 2010 and 2013 was fantastic,in 2013 Mantas should have been named to all eurobasket2013 team without even question not Kleiza.Now 2016 Kalnietis look very good totally forgot that ugly 2014 injury,wouldnt be suprised seeing this summer one of his better performances this summer.He is peaking now 29 years old,when player still have speed + have very valuable big experience how to run the team.

Same goes to Teodosic about peaking...this is now best Milos years.

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 09:07 AM
I like Serbia teem this year. For me they look more dangerous for us than Spain. Its because they had amazing guard duo with Teo+Bogda. Also Jokic would be pain in the ass for JV with his mid range shots. I saw one game in NBA between them and Jokic dominated against JV. The only advantage for us could be in SF position, as I think both teams has no difference makers in PF position. If this team could have Bjelica and Boban in my opinion it would be 2nd team after USA.

EDIT: what is the situation with Teo and Nedovic? Our media said, that Nedovic injury could be serious..

Teodosic disclocated his finger so he will miss the game vs Croatia today. He will be OK for the Olympics 100%.

Nedovic, had a clenched soft tissue in the ankle. It's an old injury that flares up for him (he jumped on the bench vs France and landed funny). They had MRI on his ankle and it's not serious. They just have to rest the ankle a bit and do flexibility and stretching exercises. He should be fine as well.

Macvan looked OK so far at PF, so if nothing he will bring a little toughness at PF. Bircevic is a fucking moron at that spot.

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 09:11 AM
It is talking only about the national competition and the role of players in them. Competition in club teams anyone tame when it comes to national teams and top-level match.

Now this is the worst thing you have said so far :D Actually club competitions like NBA and Euroleague are much higher level of basketball compared to NT competitions, who are very often one sided and top heavy. Club competitions are played at a higher intensity, for higher stakes. Also NT tournament last like 2 weeks and in that timeframe luck, injuries, form come into play so much that teams often over/underachieve.

Club competitions weed out the weaklings, and the true winners come out on top. NT will never be close to club competitions.

vuxsa
08-01-2016, 10:07 AM
Maybe too early to tell, but France does seem to be a bit overestimated - according to what they've shown. If we can expect more-less similar output from Spain as last year, I don't think that this France can measure up. So number 1 USA, Number 2 Spain, but number 3 can be either France/Serbia/LTU or even Brazil.

Straight forward
08-01-2016, 10:11 AM
Now this is the worst thing you have said so far :D Actually club competitions like NBA and Euroleague are much higher level of basketball compared to NT competitions, who are very often one sided and top heavy. Club competitions are played at a higher intensity, for higher stakes. Also NT tournament last like 2 weeks and in that timeframe luck, injuries, form come into play so much that teams often over/underachieve.

Club competitions weed out the weaklings, and the true winners come out on top. NT will never be close to club competitions.

How exactly NT games are inferior to club games? :) I thought NBA it's like 82 decent games + NT level games in the playoffs intensity wise :) Higher intensity? Maybe on some Pana's, Barsa's or Patrizan's (or Zalgiris', very easily :)) crazy fans mind. I know there are plenty of Balkan fans who would come and say - what? NT? Who the fuck cares about NT when we are bringing some washed out NBA star to our club? No, dude, except Euroleague playoffs and NBA playoffs, NT competition is much more intense than club competitons. Teams prepare 1,5 month for 5-8 games, not for 40-50 games or 82 games...

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 10:20 AM
How exactly NT games are inferior to club games? :) I thought NBA it's like 82 decent games + NT level games in the playoffs intensity wise :) Higher intensity? Maybe on some Pana's, Barsa's or Patrizan's (or Zalgiris', very easily :)) crazy fans mind. I know there are plenty of Balkan fans who would come and say - what? NT? Who the fuck cares about NT when we are bringing some washed out NBA star to our club? No, dude, except Euroleague playoffs and NBA playoffs, NT competition is much more intense than club competitons. Teams prepare 1,5 month for 5-8 games, not for 40-50 games or 82 games...

Very simple. It's not what we care more about, it's about the quality of play. You want to say that a game like Italy - Germany is higher level of play than EL game between Oly and Barca? Or that a major international game like Serbia - Lith is a higher quality game than NBA playoffs? Cmon let's be realistic. National teams matter to us, the fans but level on play is lower than on club level. Players play 9 months a year with other guys in their clubs, better chemistry, better roles etc etc.

How can you compare a 2 week competition to that. There is just no way. The level of basketball played in Top 8 of Euroleague was at least 2 classes above the Eurobasket 2015 tournament as a whole. Also there are so many shitty teams in NT competitions who lower the competition level. At club level, anybody can put together a roster that can be competitive and play high level basketball.

Again, I am not saying that I don't care about NT competitions (most of the fans care most about that) just that when I watch those games I know to lower the level of expectations on the level of play. We have a group of guys who after 9 months of serious basketball, tired as fuck, go to a nice resort to play together for a month and then play a 2 week tournament. Do you realistically think that Eurobasket 2015 showed a high level of play???

It's like Olympics in Cycling. Those guys kill themselves to win Tour De France, Giro and Vuelta for their clubs, and then they come to Olympics to compete. Yeah, we all know where the form and full effort will be given. Even if you give 110% in the NT games, you are doing it after a tiring season of games from which you make a living. So yeah that will never measure up.

Straight forward
08-01-2016, 10:42 AM
Very simple. It's not what we care more about, it's about the quality of play. You want to say that a game like Italy - Germany is higher level of play than EL game between Oly and Barca? Or that a major international game like Serbia - Lith is a higher quality game than NBA playoffs? Cmon let's be realistic. National teams matter to us, the fans but level on play is lower than on club level. Players play 9 months a year with other guys in their clubs, better chemistry, better roles etc etc.

How can you compare a 2 week competition to that. There is just no way. The level of basketball played in Top 8 of Euroleague was at least 2 classes above the Eurobasket 2015 tournament as a whole. Also there are so many shitty teams in NT competitions who lower the competition level. At club level, anybody can put together a roster that can be competitive and play high level basketball.

Again, I am not saying that I don't care about NT competitions (most of the fans care most about that) just that when I watch those games I know to lower the level of expectations on the level of play. We have a group of guys who after 9 months of serious basketball, tired as fuck, go to a nice resort to play together for a month and then play a 2 week tournament. Do you realistically think that Eurobasket 2015 showed a high level of play???

It's like Olympics in Cycling. Those guys kill themselves to win Tour De France, Giro and Vuelta for their clubs, and then they come to Olympics to compete. Yeah, we all know where the form and full effort will be given. Even if you give 110% in the NT games, you are doing it after a tiring season of games from which you make a living. So yeah that will never measure up.

In terms of intensity it's surely much more intense event than overall season of club basketball. Level wise I agree that playing together longer matters, but in FIBA you have like 6-8 top clubs who can reach podium, does Euroleague realistically have that? Usually it's 2-3 obvious contenders in Euroleague. I'm not sure Euroleague is more equal and balanced competition. Another big advantage - at least compared to Euroleague, NBA stars. Show me players of Pau, Parker, Valanciunas level in Euroleague? Besides, most of clubs, except maybe those absolute top clubs, change every year and NTs have a core who plays together for 8-15 years and knows each other very well. The things is that FIBA games is like playoffs games, that's why it's fun even if very often the quality of games is a bit worse when it comes to belove average NTs, but it's always a battle in terms of intensity, top battle.

Hepcat
08-01-2016, 02:41 PM
Maybe too early to tell, but France does seem to be a bit overestimated - according to what they've shown. If we can expect more-less similar output from Spain as last year, I don't think that this France can measure up. So number 1 USA, Number 2 Spain, but number 3 can be either France/Serbia/LTU or even Brazil.

I agree that France hasn't been at all impressive to this point. Right now to me it looks as if the contenders for the Silver are Spain, Lithuania, Serbia and Brazil, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the Brazilian team will wilt under the pressure of playing at home as opposed to rising to the occasion.

R1ou
08-01-2016, 02:59 PM
Spanish team looks tired.French one doesn't impress like every year as well but they'll probably step up at the knockouts.Spaniards look a bit out of motivation as well.Most likely an end of era for both teams after the tournament.

vuxsa
08-01-2016, 03:15 PM
Well end of an era for Spain would surely be the day when Pau Gasol says it's enough, and that is 99,9% after this tournament is done. Spain is simply not as good without him, definitely not 'seen for gold' on euro level or 2nd best after USA on world level. Just a very good team with decent chances for gold, but not more than few other teams. Pretty much similar goes fro France after Parker - a great team, but not any more 1 tier above the rest.

usagre
08-01-2016, 04:15 PM
The best club teams are always better teams than National teams. They have spent an entire year together and the chemistry is unmatched compared to national teams thrown together in a camp for a couple of weeks. The playoffs are a culmination of a year of work. You can't replicate that in a short tournament. But I will say that this is more the case with American teams, since for the most part each edition varies greatly in composition from one tournament to the next. Less so with Fiba club teams who drastically change their makeup from year to year while some of their National teams have been playing together for years. Like Spain or Argentina.

G&B
08-01-2016, 04:27 PM
Now this is the worst thing you have said so far :D Actually club competitions like NBA and Euroleague are much higher level of basketball compared to NT competitions, who are very often one sided and top heavy. Club competitions are played at a higher intensity, for higher stakes. Also NT tournament last like 2 weeks and in that timeframe luck, injuries, form come into play so much that teams often over/underachieve.

Club competitions weed out the weaklings, and the true winners come out on top. NT will never be close to club competitions.


Write here to nonsense, as the national team level is much higher:
Euroleague champion not have NBA players.National team almost all have NBA players and their cumulative salaries budgets much larger.
The US team made up entirely of NBA stars, which would be envied by even the NBA champions.

Do you have any chance Euroleague champion against the Europe champion or medalist? Answer -Non.
Do you have any chance NBA champion against the World or Olympic champion? Answer -Non.

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 05:34 PM
I gotta see the proof of ID, before I can continue any discussion with you. This is getting crazy :D

G&B
08-01-2016, 05:41 PM
I gotta see the proof of ID, before I can continue any discussion with you. This is getting crazy :D

When you do not have an argument, what more remains :D

unnamed
08-01-2016, 05:48 PM
I gotta see the proof of ID, before I can continue any discussion with you. This is getting crazy :D


I don't mean to disrespect G&B or anyone here, but when you wrote this I imagined something like this:
http://cdn.instructables.com/FOH/H516/GUGD44ZZ/FOHH516GUGD44ZZ.LARGE.jpg

:p

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 05:48 PM
When you do not have an argument, what more remains :D

Cleveland Cavaliers, Warriors, Spurs, OKC would defeat Team USA. No problems. They could play 100 games, and Team USA would lose 90.

Same like 90s Bulls would defeat the Dream Team etc. etc.

Anybody who believes the opposite, lives in a dream world. Again, that is not necessarily a bad thing, it's better for some people. Otherwise therapy could be quite expensive.

usagre
08-01-2016, 05:57 PM
Cleveland Cavaliers, Warriors, Spurs, OKC would defeat Team USA. No problems. They could play 100 games, and Team USA would lose 90.

Same like 90s Bulls would defeat the Dream Team etc. etc.

Anybody who believes the opposite, lives in a dream world. Again, that is not necessarily a bad thing, it's better for some people. Otherwise therapy could be quite expensive.

I agree but only under those specific circumstances. A meeting let's say in early July fresh off the Nba finals and with the national team allocated only a couple of weeks of preparation with some exhibition games. I think you would agree that if the national team had 6-8 months of games and preparation therefore enough time to cement player roles and establish cohesion, they would easily beat the club team.

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 06:08 PM
I agree but only under those specific circumstances. A meeting let's say in early July fresh off the Nba finals and with the national team allocated only a couple of weeks of preparation with some exhibition games. I think you would agree that if the national team had 6-8 months of games and preparation therefore enough time to cement player roles and establish cohesion, they would easily beat the club team.

But that is the main point of the argument exactly. NT competitions and level of play will always be lower than club basketball due to the fact that players give their hearts all year in clubs they get paid and this is what defines careers. Expecting the NTs to produce high level of play with 12 tired players and 5-6 prep games in a system and new coach and surroundings. Then play a tournament of 7-9 games in two weeks. Is just crazy to expect high level of play.

It's not issue of talent or player names. It's an issue of circumstance and reality. Club basketball will always produce higher quality of play, due to those factors. And that is only when we take into account serious medal contenders in NT tournaments. When we take into account teams that everybody wipes their floor with, what the hell is that :D :D :D

usagre
08-01-2016, 06:12 PM
But that is the main point of the argument exactly. NT competitions and level of play will always be lower than club basketball due to the fact that players give their hearts all year in clubs they get paid and this is what defines careers. Expecting the NTs to produce high level of play with 12 tired players and 5-6 prep games in a system and new coach and surroundings. Then play a tournament of 7-9 games in two weeks. Is just crazy to expect high level of play.

It's not issue of talent or player names. It's an issue of circumstance and reality. Club basketball will always produce higher quality of play, due to those factors. And that is only when we take into account serious medal contenders in NT tournaments. When we take into account teams that everybody wipes their floor with, what the hell is that :D :D :D

Yeah I was just clarifying. I agree with you completely. The club team has a set offense that it can run in its sleep.
And the greatest advantage in my opinion will be defensively when rotations and cummunication would dwarf that of a newly formed all star team that will rely heavily on pure talent.

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 06:22 PM
Yeah I was just clarifying. I agree with you completely. The club team has a set offense that it can run in its sleep.
And the greatest advantage in my opinion will be defensively when rotations and cummunication would dwarf that of a newly formed all star team that will rely heavily on pure talent.

Precisely, as well as coaching, where a coach knows all of his players very well and even the tiniest details about their play. He could utilize players much better than the plug and play nature of NT play. I used to get pissed of so much with sloppy rebounding and defensive switching in NT games, then over time I just figured out that it cannot be helped. Those guys don't breathe as one and cannot put the same effort and quality of play. It's also crazy to expect them to.

auris1
08-01-2016, 08:00 PM
But that is the main point of the argument exactly. NT competitions and level of play will always be lower than club basketball due to the fact that players give their hearts all year in clubs they get paid and this is what defines careers. Expecting the NTs to produce high level of play with 12 tired players and 5-6 prep games in a system and new coach and surroundings. Then play a tournament of 7-9 games in two weeks. Is just crazy to expect high level of play.

It's not issue of talent or player names. It's an issue of circumstance and reality. Club basketball will always produce higher quality of play, due to those factors. And that is only when we take into account serious medal contenders in NT tournaments. When we take into account teams that everybody wipes their floor with, what the hell is that :D :D :D

Seriously , I would like ask you to reconsider your arguments in this case . Your level of "expertise" just shines through common sense other people are trying to make .
Really annoying . The fact that you chose "coach something " as your nick does not you give you an upper hand in arguments on this forum . If anything , you sound pretentious and stupid .

madmax
08-01-2016, 08:16 PM
Seriously , I would like ask you to reconsider your arguments in this case . Your level of "expertise" just shines through common sense other people are trying to make .
Really annoying . The fact that you chose "coach something " as your nick does not you give you an upper hand in arguments on this forum . If anything , you sound pretentious and stupid .

bingo...
and claiming that a team of NBA superstars and other all stars would "definitely lose" to a club team (even as good as Cavs or Warriors for example) is yet another pretentious and unfounded claim coming from a highly pretentious poster:cool: Cavs have what - 3 extra class players in LBJ, Irving and Love. All of the others are irrelevant and can be replaced by Euroleague level guys, as they just fill up the roles and play off the main 3 guys. Now Team USA has 12 extra level NBA guys on their roster, who know each other very well from playing together in the NBA during the 82 game season and playoffs. And this guy is trying to claim that 12 superstars and All Stars would lose 90 of 100 games to inferior team talent wise? LMAO

usagre
08-01-2016, 08:26 PM
bingo...
and claiming that a team of NBA superstars and other all stars would "definitely lose" to a club team (even as good as Cavs or Warriors for example) is yet another pretentious and unfounded claim coming from a highly pretentious poster:cool: Cavs have what - 3 extra class players in LBJ, Irving and Love. All of the others are irrelevant and can be replaced by Euroleague level guys, as they just fill up the roles and play off the main 3 guys. Now Team USA has 12 extra level NBA guys on their roster, who know each other very well from playing together in the NBA during the 82 game season and playoffs. And this guy is trying to claim that 12 superstars and All Stars would lose 90 of 100 games to inferior team talent wise? LMAO

It's not as outlandish as you think. In hockey the Soviet Union played Canada even in all those Canada Cups. Why ? Because its main 5 man unit played together on the same club team since they learned to skate. The Canadians would throw out the best individual talents in the world and lose or barely win. When on paper it would look like a mismatch.
Further proof is when those 5 Soviet players went on to very undistinguished careers in the Nhl. How is that explained ?
They dominated as a unit, then as individuals accomplished very little and were average players for the most part.
The only thing I would disagree with is that it wouldn't be as emphatic as 90-10. But I would definitely favor the club team.
But as I stated and Coach Z agreed, only in those specific circumstances of limited training time for the all star national teams.

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 08:37 PM
Seriously , I would like ask you to reconsider your arguments in this case . Your level of "expertise" just shines through common sense other people are trying to make .
Really annoying . The fact that you chose "coach something " as your nick does not you give you an upper hand in arguments on this forum . If anything , you sound pretentious and stupid .

That's my nickname, given to me by the kids I coach. That's why I chose it. If you don't like it tough luck.

This is a forum, anyone can write their own opinion. The point that you are asking people to reconsider arguments, kind of kills the point of people having their own opinion. If you don't like it, then tough luck again. Bye, bye...

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 08:39 PM
It's not as outlandish as you think. In hockey the Soviet Union played Canada even in all those Canada Cups. Why ? Because its main 5 man unit played together on the same club team since they learned to skate. The Canadians would throw out the best individual talents in the world and lose or barely win. When on paper it would look like a mismatch.
Further proof is when those 5 Soviet players went on to very undistinguished careers in the Nhl. How is that explained ?
They dominated as a unit, then as individuals accomplished very little and were average players for the most part.
The only thing I would disagree with is that it wouldn't be as emphatic as 90-10. But I would definitely favor the club team.
But as I stated and Coach Z agreed, only in those specific circumstances of limited training time for the all star national teams.

Just give up man. He probably doesn't understand half of the post anyway. After all, for him Sabonis is a loser and JV is already the greatest Lith center ever. :D

They keep saying the same thing over and over.

madmax
08-01-2016, 08:45 PM
It's not as outlandish as you think. In hockey the Soviet Union played Canada even in all those Canada Cups. Why ? Because its main 5 man unit played together on the same club team since they learned to skate. The Canadians would throw out the best individual talents in the world and lose or barely win. When on paper it would look like a mismatch.
Further proof is when those 5 Soviet players went on to very undistinguished careers in the Nhl. How is that explained ?
They dominated as a unit, then as individuals accomplished very little and were average players for the most part.
The only thing I would disagree with is that it wouldn't be as emphatic as 90-10. But I would definitely favor the club team.
But as I stated and Coach Z agreed, only in those specific circumstances of limited training time for the all star national teams.

I'm not a fan or expert on ice hockey, so I cannot comment on that...
but as far as basketball goes, it's a highly individual sport, where talent shines through much more often than not. This has been proven in history time and time again, when the most talented teams win at least 90 % of the time. It's not the same thing as in soccer or ice hockey, where the best teams often beat the best talent - that's how these sports rules work.
btw, insulting my intelligence won't make yours any more impressive (that's directed to our "expert" CoachZ of course:rolleyes:)

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 08:48 PM
btw, insulting my intelligence won't make yours any more impressive (that's directed to our "expert" CoachZ of course:rolleyes:)

Oh snaaaaaaaaaap :D :D :D

9080

usagre
08-01-2016, 09:00 PM
I'm not a fan or expert on ice hockey, so I cannot comment on that...
but as far as basketball goes, it's a highly individual sport, where talent shines through much more often than not. This has been proven in history time and time again, when the most talented teams win at least 90 % of the time. It's not the same thing as in soccer or ice hockey, where the best teams often beat the best talent - that's how these sports rules work.
btw, insulting my intelligence won't make yours any more impressive (that's directed to our "expert" CoachZ of course:rolleyes:)

They are different and you're right basketball is unprecedented when it comes an individual's ability to dominate. Just look at your avatar as proof, wherever that guy goes you can basically pencil his team in the finals. But a couple of examples.
I have no doubt that the 2004 Pistons would have destroyed the Olympic field as opposed to losing 3 times. And that team had Duncan and Iverson. Or the 2002 Lakers with Shaq and Kobe and bunch of Euro league level players as you called them would have beaten Serbia and others and not lost 3 times. Now the 02 and 04 USA teams were flawed but the talent was still way better top to bottom than those NBA teams.

You can also look at it in these terms. Kyrie Irving is the starting point guard for both the Cavs and USA. But he is more effective and better on the Cavs because there he is a major scoring option, on team USA he is asked to be a playmaker which is not his game. Volume shooters are more effective on their club teams than USA because they are allowed to play their game and flourish. When you have like 4-5 guys with that similar role on the same team they are automatically less valuable and effective.

auris1
08-01-2016, 09:13 PM
That's my nickname, given to me by the kids I coach. That's why I chose it. If you don't like it tough luck.

This is a forum, anyone can write their own opinion. The point that you are asking people to reconsider arguments, kind of kills the point of people having their own opinion. If you don't like it, then tough luck again. Bye, bye...
Just like that,right ?
Because you coach some kids you possess this all basketball knowledge we all elude ?

[edited] - Levenspiel

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 09:17 PM
Just like that,right ?
Because you coach some kids you possess this all basketball knowledge we all elude ?
[edited] - Levenspiel

Have a nice day sir. Mods will take care of the rest hopefully :D

madmax
08-01-2016, 09:22 PM
They are different and you're right basketball is unprecedented when it comes an individual's ability to dominate. Just look at your avatar as proof, wherever that guy goes you can basically pencil his team in the finals. But a couple of examples.
I have no doubt that the 2004 Pistons would have destroyed the Olympic field as opposed to losing 3 times. And that team had Duncan and Iverson. Or the 2002 Lakers with Shaq and Kobe and bunch of Euro league level players as you called them would have beaten Serbia and others and not lost 3 times. Now the 02 and 04 USA teams were flawed but the talent was still way better top to bottom than those NBA teams.

You can also look at it in these terms. Kyrie Irving is the starting point guard for both the Cavs and USA. But he is more effective and better on the Cavs because there he is a major scoring option, on team USA he is asked to be a playmaker which is not his game. Volume shooters are more effective on their club teams than USA because they are allowed to play their game and flourish. When you have like 4-5 guys with that similar role on the same team they are automatically less valuable and effective.

I remember that 2004 Pistons team very vividly and they were just a special bunch - I've never seen a better defense than those guys played night in and out really. They just wouldn't be stopped that year as they were firing on all cylinders with Mr Defense at the peak of his powers Ben Wallace in the middle of course...:p And Lakers were, well, dysfunctional and old, despite having better overall talent. Now as for 02, 04 and 06 US teams, I have my own suspicion why they failed so miserably internationally and that has a lot to do with poor coaching and players' selection at the time.

auris1
08-01-2016, 09:55 PM
Have a nice day sir. Mods will take care of the rest hopefully :D

I agree . You have spammed this forum with a staggering 1981 posts within one year . You have managed to insult the intelligence of the better part of this community over and over again . Just because you think you know it better .

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 09:59 PM
I agree . You have spammed this forum with a staggering 1981 posts within one year . You have managed to insult the intelligence of the better part of this community over and over again . Just because you think you know it better .

Always nice to have fans that follow your posts. Especially with such a pedigree. Post 1984.

R1ou
08-01-2016, 10:04 PM
I agree . You have spammed this forum with a staggering 1981 posts within one year . You have managed to insult the intelligence of the better part of this community over and over again . Just because you think you know it better .

Basically you attacked him when you disagreed in a heavy tone with his saying.What I don't understund here is why you don't say something to the other member Usagre who also has the same thinking.So actually you wouldn't give a shit if any other person supported the same(F.E usagre) but you just wanted to argue with a special member.

CoachZ
08-01-2016, 10:12 PM
Basically you attacked him when you disagreed in a heavy tone with his saying.What I don't understund here is why you don't say something to the other member Usagre who also has the same thinking.So actually you wouldn't give a shit if any other person supported the same(F.E usagre) but you just wanted to argue with a special member.

I wouldn't say I am special :D I would leave that honor to Auris1 :D

auris1
08-01-2016, 11:24 PM
other member Usagre who also has the same thinking.So actually you wouldn't give a shit if any other person supported the same(F.E usagre) but you just wanted to argue with a special member.

At least ,he is not pretentious git. Usagre guy . He seems like a person who is very keen to ask and to appreciate answers he gets .

Hepcat
08-02-2016, 04:03 AM
Actually club competitions like NBA and Euroleague are much higher level of basketball compared to NT competitions, who are very often one sided and top heavy. Club competitions are played at a higher intensity.... Also NT tournament last like 2 weeks....

I disagree! National team competitions are played at a much higher level of intensity than the typical regular season club team competitions precisely because national team competitions are so short. National team competitions are like the playoffs. Because professional seasons are so long these days, professional basketball players find it difficult to get up for every game and just seem to be going through the motions in many regular season games. But the intensity level gets ratcheted up to a higher level during the playoffs because any team that doesn't follow suit is swiftly eliminated.


Club competitions are played ... for higher stakes.

That's entirely incorrect in the case of the Euroleague versus the Olympics. Even the Euroleague playoffs receive absolutely no coverage in the North American press, and probably not anywhere other than in Europe. The Olympic basketball tournament though will receive widespread coverage all over the globe.


The best club teams are always better teams than National teams. They have spent an entire year together and the chemistry is unmatched compared to national teams thrown together in a camp for a couple of weeks.... But I will say that this is more the case with American teams, since for the most part each edition varies greatly in composition from one tournament to the next. Less so with Fiba club teams who drastically change their makeup from year to year while some of their National teams have been playing together for years. Like Spain or Argentina.

You're half right precisely because what you say is more applicable to U.S. teams.

I agree that the NBA champions, e.g. the Cleveland Cavaliers, at say the start of the playoffs would beat this year's U.S. Olympic team at the start of the Olympics exactly because the Olympic team would have been together for barely three weeks.

When it comes to Europe though, I disagree. The top European national teams, e.g. Serbia, Lithuania, France, Spain, have been training together for at least six weeks. Moreover there's a lot of roster continuity from summer to summer. For example the players on the Lithuanian team all behave like teammates from childhood quite simply because they have been so in many cases. But player rosters of European club teams have way too much of a musical chairs element compared to NBA teams. As a result I think the top European national teams would beat the Euroleague champion.

Shawshank
08-03-2016, 10:51 AM
after watching many friendlys i will put my new power ranking:

1 Usa

2 Spain,France

3.Serbia,Lithuania,Argentina

this 6 countrys have a shot for a medal.

Brasil when you slow down their fast breaks they will meltdown under pressure...
Australia i was very dissapointed seeing their games how they performed...
Croatia is just happy to be here...

other 3 teams do not have enough tallent.

Do not sleep on Argentinias veterans,they once again looks very dangerous.
France with Parker and without him 2 diffrent teams.
Spain is Spain.
Lithuania and Serbia looks really good.
Usa will win gold once again.

I predict 1/4 look similiar to this:

Usa-Brasil
France-Argentina
Lithuania-Serbia
Spain-Australia

sorry Croatia i dont see you making top8.

Victorious
08-03-2016, 12:26 PM
As a result I think the top European national teams would beat the Euroleague champion.

Some top tier National Teams never reach full potential or get to find the right team chemistry in just a few weeks. Because of this National team competitions are lower level competitions than the Euroleague.
This is why national team competitions are rather unpredictable, since mediocre teams can surprise top teams. Teams like the Netherlands can almost beat countries like Croatia and Greece. Better yet, teams like Nigeria can knock out Greece in Olympic qualifiers. Teams like FYROM can even reach the Semi-Finals of Eurobasket, and I may even say that teams like Lithuania, who have the experience to find the right buttons in short tournaments, can consistently be medal candidates, while they would not even come close to make the Final Four in a Euroleague season.

There are a few national teams which can be EL title candidates, namely Spain or France among others, but these teams do not reach their full potential in short tournaments. When they do come close to their full potential, they usually beat other national teams by great margins all the way to the gold.

It is no secret that coaches have no time put their signature on the team in such a short period of time. If they did, then teams with the best rosters would be considerably stronger. The good thing is that the new qualification system will allow teams to glue and reach full potential in the final tournaments.

Shawshank
08-03-2016, 12:53 PM
Some top tier National Teams never reach full potential or get to find the right team chemistry in just a few weeks. Because of this National team competitions are lower level competitions than the Euroleague.
This is why national team competitions are rather unpredictable, since mediocre teams can surprise top teams. Teams like the Netherlands can almost beat countries like Croatia and Greece. Better yet, teams like Nigeria can knock out Greece in Olympic qualifiers. Teams like FYROM can even reach the Semi-Finals of Eurobasket, and I may even say that teams like Lithuania, who have the experience to find the right buttons in short tournaments, can consistently be medal candidates, while they would not even come close to make the Final Four in a Euroleague season.

There are a few national teams which can be EL title candidates, namely Spain or France among others, but these teams do not reach their full potential in short tournaments. When they do come close to their full potential, they usually beat other national teams by great margins all the way to the gold.

It is no secret that coaches have no time put their signature on the team in such a short period of time. If they did, then teams with the best rosters would be considerably stronger. The good thing is that the new qualification system will allow teams to glue and reach full potential in the final tournaments.

Zalgiris is not Lithuania national team.Zalgiris have bench players of national team.Put entire national team and let them playing together for 8 motnhs,they would make top8 in euroleague and Valanciunas best eurolegue player.Zalgiris in euroleague is always in end with money and tallent in top16,Lithuania national team its always in top8 in any major tournament by tallent !
Zalgiris budget is like 3-4million euros...cska is paying 2 players such salarie,its impossible to compete...

Hepcat
08-03-2016, 01:55 PM
Zalgiris budget is like 3-4million euros...cska is paying 2 players such salarie,its impossible to compete...

Keep in mind that throwing money at players is not a consistently successful strategy in any league or sport.

vuxsa
08-03-2016, 02:19 PM
Keep in mind that throwing money at players is not a consistently successful strategy in any league or sport.

Why not? They struggle so hard to get it all - excellent physical exercise to remain in shape. :D

Hepcat
08-03-2016, 03:02 PM
While the strategy works for players, the correlation between size of payroll and playing success for clubs is tenuous.

:confused:

Dacho88Nk
08-23-2016, 08:21 PM
1. United States
2. Serbia
3. Spain
4. France
5. Brazil
6. Australia
7. Argentina
8. Croatia
9. Lithuania
10.Venezuela
11.Nigeria
12.China

Was I right? Yes :) Thank you :)


New Men's world rankings:

1. USA - 950
2. Spain - 590
3. Serbia - 553
4. France - 444
5. Lithuania - 442
6. Argentina - 360
7. Brasil - 323
8. Turkey - 281
9. Russia - 255
10.Australia - 234
11.Croatia - 184
12. Slovenia - 163
13.Greece - 155
14. China - 131.2
15. Venezuela - 115.4
16. Nigeria - 106.2